Reading about it, it seems they are in fact all the same. Even the white haribo mice. TIL.
Yeah, in a way. As in, I don’t feel like I have any responsibility in things in the company going to shits (which I would if it were, well, my company).
The book The Responsibility Virus helped me a lot with this. Most people are over-responsible for the choices of others, specifically ones they can’t reasonably influence, anyway.
Yes. This lies among the reasons I find it easier not to blame enterprises for their dysfunctions. The unsustained growth imperative of our economic systems makes the Gervais Principle behavior the path of least resistance. Indeed, the only way to stop it seems to come down to the heroism of one key influential person who chooses differently.
This also accounts for why I stopped trying to fix enterprises and instead focus on helping the well-meaning people who otherwise would need to fend for themselves.
I’m determined to ever only work in public, state-owned companies. I believe in a causal connection between being a private, profit-oriented business and the daily “wtf” moments, the only true measure of quality.
I mean, it’s not a huge problem to read Marx or Gramsci before arguing about Marx or Gramsci. You don’t have to read all they wrote, of course. To form an opinion on Gadamer I don’t have to read everything he wrote.
That’s different than what I said though, which is that you can’t disagree with me without reading Gramsci. And is also typically how these authors’ names are invoked in arguments which are not about the authors themselves.
I was condescending to a person insufficiently intelligent or humble, that is, you.
Natural languages are ambiguous, so when somebody better than you misreads what you wrote three times, it’s your fault and if you also behave in such a way, then it’s you who is a complete idiot.
Other than that, I don’t know in which stable you’ve been bred.
You might wish to be aware that your instance’s top-level domain was chosen because ML stands for “Marxism-Leninism”, and that the main admin of lemmy.ml has a photo of Mao as his profile banner. So you’re probably going to have a hard time convincing your instance’s admins to defederate from Hexbear and Lemmygrad, all things considered.
Hexbear is known for trolling, regardless of their political stance, unless there is a material analysis that pig poop balls advances the cause somehow.
I’m just saying that if one wishes to be defederated from Hexbear, then one should migrate off of lemmy.ml first. The admins of that instance are not going to be open to defederating Hexbear.
thats totally fair. I’m not actually on lemmy.ml, and my instance sees no real reason to talk ibout hexbear. Their trolling isn’t disruptive to our communities, and is fairly easily filtered
thats totally fair. I’m not actually on lemmy.ml, and my instance sees no real reason to talk ibout hexbear. Their trolling isn’t disruptive to our communities, and is fairly easily filtered
Also, regarding “a material analysis that pig poop balls advances the cause somehow” — basically ever since I first started seeing this sort of stuff coming from Hexbear in the brief time when they federated with Blåhaj Lemmy, I thought of stuff like pig poop balls in kind of the same way as, like, the climate/vegan activists who throw soup cans at paintings or pour milk jugs in stores or trespass F1 races or break fuel pumps or so forth. A lot of people express a lot of anger and frustration and annoyance at these sorts of things and say “How can these activists be so stupid‽ Don’t they know that this hurts support for their cause‽”, but… ehhhh, being goddamn annoying as all Hell is honestly a more effective form of political action than a lot of people consciously believe it to be. The video essayist Ponderful once said about this,
People criticize actions like milk pours and soup…chucks? Because it “gives the right something to criticize”…but it seems like that’s the point! And at the same time, it makes other climate activists look extremely reasonable and “good, actually” in comparison! If pouring some milk on the ground will mean that Daily Mail readers might hear some messages about how messed-up the dairy industry is, and then also maybe even consider old enemies like our Greta as good in comparison, then…yay! Yay, I say! And if it makes the public look kinder upon activists who actually target oil infrastructure, in comparison to what they see as random and annoying publicity stunts, then f*ck!gn ay!
Whether all of this applies in the case of Hexbear is something that people can argue about — it feels like kind of a silly comparison given that Lemmy is just an obscure social media platform, which doesn’t exactly seem like the type of place where meaningful praxis can happen… But it’s at least a thought that we can keep in mind. Hexbear has certainly succeeded in getting people on Lemmy talking and thinking about them and their beliefs, pushing the Overton window leftwards — especially if other, less annoying leftists look “good in comparison”. I’m kind of reminded of my own path towards leftism, honestly: I’d certainly been annoyed by communist interlocutors plenty of times over the years, but I think that without that annoyance, I probably wouldn’t agree with those selfsame interlocutors on so much today. That was just one of the many tactics that collectively led me down that path.
I don’t think that this is necessarily Hexbear’s intentional strategy in the same way as those aforementioned climate/vegan activists, but nevertheless, this is at least my spitball of a material analysis of why Pig Poop Balls actually does advance the cause. This is just a little advocacy for the devil, as it were.
i could certainly see that argument having same weight, but the practical application of it isn’t as a protest, but as a thought ending cliche. PPB is linked when the interlocuter has decided the thread is over, independent of whether they actually had much participation.
I agree, there is certainly a place for confrontational protest, hell, if your protest doesn’t make people upset, then its not working. But as you say, this is lemmy. Its not a good context, in my estimation, for a soup pour, particularly when that soup pour is in defence some pretty controversial stuff. Many will say this is milquetoast waffling, which is probably fair, I guess, but I am here to relax and I don’t find threat of disgust for mistepping someone’s Bizmarkian statist realpolitik to be relaxing.
And, ultimately, I advocate more for a filtering than a complete removal, simply because the discussion is important. There are forums here where conversation is ecouraged, and there ar forums where circle jerk is encouraged, and if the former is done stridently but in good faith, I want it to continue. I personaly don’t need the circle jerk, however.
i do appreciate your analasys, and it does make me view that stuff a little more charitably. I also appreciate your use of the interobang. This open source phone keyboard can’t do that yet, and I feel its a loss.
But at the same time, there are also a lot more people on Lemmy now who came from Reddit and aren’t communists, right? So maybe it isn’t pushing leftwards so much as it’s trying to prevent a push rightwards. Does that sound more correct?
I’m not a communist but I think it’s a welcome concept in discussing economic theory as I’m sure there are things that we can learn from.
I’m glad people like you exist who are not tankies. I wish that your group would be the actual face of your movement on Lemmy instead of those obnoxious Hexbear users.
I hadn’t heard of that, but you’re probably right. It’s still mighty coincidental that 3/4 of the admins have Cuban or Soviet historical figures as their profile pictures.
I also pay for a ml domain now, 11$ a year. Used a free one, set up my mail server and some other stuff, now I need that domain because of the mail adresses I and others from my family use. Lemmy.ml has lots of users, it’s the main devs instance after all. I don’t think that the marxist-leninist thingy is the reason for that.
Though I disagree with dessalines political views.
To build on this point: I don’t get the whole “anti-echo chamber” thing and this demand we entertain said assholes. We select people to be friends we generally like and agree with. We often don’t associate with people we don’t like or disagree with. Why should our forums be some totally egalitarian social exposure? That’s literally never been the case ever. We read what we want to read. We talk to who we want to talk to. I’m not going to be guilted into listening to some jerk who thinks gay people shouldn’t marry and belong in hell. I don’t want to share a beer with them, I would never invite them to dinner in my home, so why should I have to deal with them living rent free in my mind because I saw some ignorant post of theirs and they called someone a slur? Hell, why should I be forced by some arbitrary, inconsistent moral code to deal with people who are simply disruptive/obnoxious?
I have plenty of work colleagues and family I disagree with, I read sources I don’t always love. I get plenty of exposure to other ways of thinking and ideas, at least no less than anyone else does. Do I think people can go too far and literally only surround themselves with “yes men” socially? Sure. But come on. How many of us actually spend equal time with people we both agree and disagree ideologically with?
The only people whining about defederating either don’t understand what it is or are butthurt because people are collectively showing them the door, and there is little they can do about it. 
Yeah you’re right. It’s not a binary choice between echo chamber and non-echo chamber. It’s just an open community where trolling antisocial behaviour is discouraged. If admins of an instance are encouraging antisocial behaviour then the only solution is to defederate.
Lemmy.world defederating from lemmy.dbzer0.com because it’s instance focuses on discussions about piracy.
Like, how do I keep myself up to date about what is happening in piracy nowadays? It’s my key interest, but yet admins decided to defederate.
As you might already noticed, I created account in lemmy.dbzer0.com, which btw has higher uptime than lemmy.world. Also high five for those ddos kids for bringing lemmy.world down, so people can switch to other instances and spread the load.
These textbooks are trash and written by morons. When I was in college one of the required books said very clearly that sleep and hibernate are exactly the same thing. It said that both suspended to RAM and hibernate was just some lower power version of sleep. It was even a question on an exam that I got wrong for some reason. I argued with the professor about it and proved to him thats not the case by taking one of the lab computers, hibernating it, physically taking the ram out and swapping it with another computer and resuming into the same state on power on. He said “Well thats what it says in the textbook so I have to mark it wrong”
It really highlights that there are probably a lot of other inaccuracies that I didn’t notice. This is the standard of education nowadays.
He said “Well thats what it says in the textbook so I have to mark it wrong”
The mark of a great teacher. It’s nice however that he had the patience to wait for your experiment (or maybe he was expecting it to fail miserably?): no prof of mine would have went along with something like that (not to mention, I’m pretty sure we couldn’t take apart the lab PCs at our leisure).
Perhaps not great, but effective. This attitude is exactly how working in the corporate world works. Reality and being right are rarely, if ever, the important thing. Following the rules, doing what you’re told, and sitting the fuck down and shutting the fuck up? That’s what this teacher was teaching their students.
They’re not testing you on what you know, they’re testing on did you study the course material. I had the same problem when trying to pass my written motorcycle test when I moved to California after riding in Canada for years.
It wasn’t the rules/signs portion of the test. They litereally had questions like:
Which is more dangerous when riding beside a row of parked cars?
A) A car pulling out.
B) Someone opening a car door.
C) A child running into the street from between two parked cars.
It’s not an opinion question, personally I’d rather hit the car and the door over the child, but they want to know the answer that the study material gave.
Oh yes, I remember the paper test in California and it was really stupid. Things like “what should you do in foggy weather?” And the correct answer was “stay at home and don’t drive”.
Their whole booklet was a joke, instead of clear rules it was a mix up of actual rules, advice and trivia with no meaningful organization.
What a bullshit question. If they don’t want people to drive in fog they should make it illegal. Otherwise, they should just acknowledge that people are going to do it and not coerce them to lie on a test
That’s messed up. When this kind of thing happened when I was in school the instructor would mark both answers as correct since the book did state it. I highly appreciated that.
most CS “textbooks” are a scam these days I’m general. a huge red flag when I scan resumes now is actually if they have a textbook published without some sort of advanced degree or qualification to write a textbook. I get resumes of people a year out of college, work a junior position, and have a “Advanced JavaScript” or “JavaScript the not boring way” or “Complete guide to typescript” or some other quirky textbook name. if you actually click into any of these books, they’re complete nonsense written by somebody who just copied another textbook from another idiot who knew nothing. all these people are over confident resume padders. in practice they don’t know shit and didn’t legitimately write a lick of the book. I’ve had some of these applicants claim their books are used by professors too.
Come on over, the water is fine. I switched to Pop_OS a few months back for the gaming rig and Proton+Steam works almost flawlessly. Older titles sometimes have hiccups, but so far ive only been blocked on one title.
The VM is optimised for the OS, the OS is usually a fresh install with just that 1 program you need to use instead of you're entire life scattered across the desktop, it can be a snapshot of the system in an optimal state right after running an unfuck windows script that removes default system malware which doesn't let it reinstall, it has less system resources to deal with for the simple fact it can't use them all at the same time as the base OS.
Probably a BIOS that has a very well known hardware configuration. It doesn’t have to worry about weird legacy shit, it’s only ever going to be the VM hardware. (Plus whatever you pass through, but I imagine the BIOS doesn’t care, or if it does it’ll slow it back down).
I just switched from W10 to Pop_OS and have had lots of trouble. I’m trying to stick with it but from audio glitches to many games not running unless I find a random CLI arg that someone mentioned on Reddit, to my UI freezing, it’s not been an easy switch.
Any chance you have an nvidia card? Nvidia for a long time has been in a worse spot on Linux than AMD, which interestingly is the inverse of Windows. A lot of AMD users complain of driver issues on Windows and swap to Nvidia as a result, and the exact opposite happens on Linux.
Nvidia is getting much better on Linux though, and Wayland+explicit sync is coming down the pipeline. With NVK in a couple years it’s quite possible that nvidia/amd Linux experience will be very similar.
I wish I still had my AMD card but it decided to brick itself for no apparent reason after it made horrible humming noises whenever it chose to ever since I bought it. I have an Nvidia card now and haven’t had a single issue on Windows yet, but maybe my days are counted to the moment I switch to Linux.
it's not a drop in replacement and anyone looking for one will be disappointed by literally anything available.
You're learning an entirely new operating system, don't think of it as an upgrade, this is a time sink. You'll be under the hood more than on the road for the foreseeable future, but what's the alternative?
I get that, and I love Linux, it’s just annoying to see people say that they switched with 0 issues and trying to sell it off like people won’t have problems.
Its not that I don’t believe it, rather they are “selling” Linux as if there won’t be any problems, but whoever is making the switch will have to learn about troubleshooting. That’s a good thing, but something that they should be aware of.
I don’t really have a problem with “selling” Linux. You gotta take all things with a dose of skepticism.
Has anyone ever recommended a product of any complexity as an OS and then also listed all of the common issues people might encounter? When people talk about a product they like, of course it will highlight the positive things, but anyone who has ever touched a computer, hobbyist or not, knows these things might sometimes shit the bed in unexpected ways. I think that’s common sense.
Windows is said to have less problems, but the cryptic errors and non descriptive “wait while we do something” message without any other output actually makes solving problems harder. It has more users, so luckily that means someone out there probably has the issue documented so solutions are easier to find.
I use both, at home primarily Linux, at work primarily Windows. I had troubles in both that caused serious headaches, but generally they both work without too much problems.
I did the same a few months back. No problems so far. Some older games require switching up the compatibility layer occasionally but no deal breakers so far.
I’ll try to offer an answer to both you and @natedog526.
Pop came heavily recommended for a while because it’s relatively light-weight for a modern desktop, had some fresh UI ideas with its COSMIC plugins for Gnome, and ships with some nice bonuses for gamers like built in Steam and Nvidia setup scripts.
Unfortunately, it’s become pretty stale lately. I still use it daily on my main desktop, but lately it’s becoming harder and harder to keep from hopping to something new. A few pain points include Pop shipping older version of some important software like the Kernel, Wine, and Mesa, persistsant audio bugs like the other user mentioned, and basically no support for Wayland at the moment.
A lot of these are because System76 has been heavily focused working on its COSMIC desktop, which should function a full standalone desktop environment instead of Gnome with duct tape. It’s looking forward to seeing it which has so far kept me from switching, but with no release date and other distros offering what Pop offers, it’s harder and harder to stay put.
If iRacing and my other sim racing gear worked with Linux I’d make the switch asap. I already have popOS on another hard drive and everything other than iRacing has worked well
Yup, similar boat but with planes instead of cars. Most inputs Linux can support on a single usb device is 86 or so, my throttle alone has well over 150 buttons on it. Add in all the stuff for my sim cockpit (probably around 1000 buttons), my haptic feedback chair, and then VR… as much as I’d like to use Linux, I don’t think it’d be possible for the foreseeable future for me to switch.
I switched to Pop!_OS about 3 months ago and have been loving it! First Linux distribution that just worked for me, and every app works better than any other Linux or Windows 11 on the same hardware.
We need a successful replacement to DirectX for this to happen.
Look how desperate they are now for their web browser, imagine when people start abandoning Windows because there are other options that work just as well. I can’t wait.
Definitely, I’m not saying that there aren’t any viable candidates out there now, but the title base for games that support Vulkan seems to be not even 1/10th of what DirectX 11 can support. It needs more acceptance I guess is what I mean.
Wine does do DirectX as well (and did well before DVXK and VKD3D-Proton were a thing). But it translates to OGL instead of Vulkan so it was always relatively slow and has issues with compatibility. There’s also some other built in work to translate to Vulkan (including the original VKD3D), but they are behind the third party projects too.
DXVK and VKD3D have been translating DirectX 9-12 to Vulkan for a while now, allowing DirectX games and applications to run on hardware and/or operating systems that don’t support DirectX.
Intels ARC GPUs don’t even support DirectX on a hardware level, like it’s just straight up not there. Intels drivers instead just translate it to Vulkan, and their at times insane FPS boosts from driver updates was due to them improving that translation and getting closer to 1:1 performance.
At times, yes. But at most times, no. Certain games can capitalize on ARC and I was just as enthusiastic as everyone else when it first started making the rounds. But theres a reason the cards haven’t caught on and most people seem to rely on them more for offloading things like streaming and AV1 encoding/decoding
I didn’t claim they’re worth recommending yet. But AFAIK they’re pretty great now, and with more issues worked out on the hardware side, Battlemage has great potential.
Switched to arch linux last november, didn’t had to launch my backup VM Win10 at all. I even managed to play at StarCitizen with better performance than under Win 10…
Just wow the progress of Linux, Wine & co since my last linux try (Ubuntu, around 2010).
I just need now to find a linux way for my music stack and all the VST (my steinberg usb card is recognized and play properly oO) and Windows will be history at home…
Yeah ive also had s Star Citizen running in Arch. My setup didnt support game updates though so every update needed a complete redownload of the entire game which got old real fast.
Also had Microsoft Flight Simulator running very well too which is peak irony. At first there was issues with satellite terrain and imagary as the networking was broken but a Proton update actually fixed that.
Im incredibly impressed on the type of heavy duty window games ive got working in linux, some working very well others with slight occasional issues.
Linux gaming isnt perfect but windows has never been either. Ive had plenty of experience over the years with some games just not running properly or at all in windows even though they should.
Ive found many older games generally run better in Linux now in respect to modern windows, despite the compatibility layers.
It’s funny seeing this every couple of years. People get up in arms about something with Windows, some switch to Linux because they outgrew Windows and the time was right. By now I think you guys could be primary source of Linux users.
Yeah, for me it is the ads. No one likes ads, but I hate ads more than most people. So when Windows started putting more and more ‘recommendations’ into various places… I’ve been building up a list of registry tweaks to turn it all off - but as more ads got added, just couldn’t tolerate it any more. I installed Mint with dual boot (defaulting to Mint). I thought I’d be booting into Window every so often for one reason or another, but as it happens - the only reason I ever loaded Windows was to check that the dual booting was working.
The the Arch software repos are incredible and the Arch Wiki is, quite frankly, a work of art that should be celebrated with the same reverence as the Mona Lisa or David’s uncircumcised cock.
But anyone recommending Arch to a Linux newbie needs a psych evaluation.
I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve read stories to the effect of, “yeah, a regular package update bricked my desktop, but I just rolled my face across the keyboard and recompiled the offending software and got back to work, no big deal.”
Cool. I’m so glad you can do that my guy, I really am. But how the hell do you expect average computer user to figure that out? The first time a software update leaves them at a command prompt with some cryptic GDM error message or a Nvidia kernel panic or something, they’re going running back to Billy Gates’ warm walled garden embrace. Shit, I like to think I’m half competent with Linux and I’d shit myself if that happened to me.
EDIT: Sorry, @7U5K3N, I didn’t nessicarily mean to direct any of that to you specifically, it’s sort of just my standard copy pasta whenever I see Arch reccomded.
Haha I agree arch is the meme recommendation. It has its benefits like you’ve detailed out… but it’s not for a windows convert. I’ve ran it, it can require more fiddling than some of the other distros. Tinkering that newbies can’t do.
Me I’m an apt man. So I tend to suggest distros that center around that package manager… it just so happens that they are some of the newbie ones.
I once installed mint on my ex father in laws machine and it ran perfectly for ages for him (with auto updates) They were spending $$$s a quarter on windowa system cleanup due to viruses. As he was an online slot machine / junk flash game player. So of course he would get all the viruses. Once he went mint, he had 0 issues (with the os) the issues he had was more user error with online behavior.
Anyway. No problem for the gruffness of your reply, as I agree with what you’ve said. :)
That was my choice too. I made the jump to Mint earlier this year and couldn’t be happier. It took a little effort to get updated GPU drivers, and my games sometimes need an extra CLI argument added, but those things have been pretty quickly and easily found on the Mint forums, Ubuntu forums, or ProtonDB comments.
The ‘as soon as Windows 10 can’t x I’m off to Linux!’ refrain is so routine in our circles it’s practically a meme. All someone says when they pontificate like this is that their true priority is can kicking rather than action.
Thing is, statements like the one in the post are just as ignorant as the claimed “enemy”.
You know what else takes 28 days? A moon cycle. We have absolutely no context, what this means. A period tracker bone is a perfectly valid hypothesis, but without any proof or context nothing more than this. It could have been used for moon phases, sheep counting, trade, or simply for testing stone knives.
And this reaction of yours is a prime example of jumping to conclusions based on political views.
You can argue, that this bone was used for 400 different things. Without context, arguing that it’s definitely something about menstruation is just pseudo-feminist circle jerking. They just choose this interpretation because it fits their views and goals. That’s unscientific.
What you’re doing here is also not much better. Instead of actually engaging with the argument I brought, you just assume, that everyone who disagrees with a pseudo-feminist interpretation of a bone, must be the enemy. That is not exactly scientific.
you talked about enemity first, remember? you have this view of a fight, and that anyone who dare say that a woman did something and not a man, is fighting men.
You have a very defensive position. Which means you feal attacked. You say it directly when you talk about “enemy”.
You are the problem my friend. Your first comment is aa problem. And the support it receives is concerning and scary.
Nope, I just pointed out, that an absolute statement like the one above is not valid. And the “enemy” I brought up, was used as a description of the position shown by the proponents of the menstruation bone absolutism.
And labeling me as a “problem”, without even an attempt at telling me where I might be wrong is pretty, well, bold?
Think about it, I write, that absolutism is not good, and your first response is “you are evil because you dare question whatever I happen to believe in”.
You don’t help feminism like that. And that’s pretty sad.
Same here. My native langauge is not gendered and I rarely associate “man” in academic spaces with “gender” category. I usually need more info to tilt to gender in discussions.
🤦♂️Yes, in that sense, English could be gendered. But what it actually means is that English used to be gendered and retains some gendered words from that time.
Another example, Russian has noun cases, but not the vocative case. However, it does have two words that have a vocative case from when the language as a whole did use to have the vocative case - Бог (Боже) and Господь (Господи) - but that doesn’t mean that Russian has it now.
Also, blond/blonde are pronounced the same so the distinction is lost in speech and probably soon in writing as well, and words like fiancé/fiancée (which are also pronounced the same), widow/widower, actor/actress do not signify grammatical gender by itself.
Why do I have to know the gender of a person in order to talk about them in third person singular? On more days than not, there is conversation about someone I never met where there is an irrelevant sidebar to clarify gender before communication can continue. I find this relic of the language to be inefficient, pointless and annoying. Daily life would be a lot easier with a non-gendered word for referring to a single person in third person. Languages like Spanish, with gendered nouns, is confusing for even native speakers. I am fascinated by how different languages have different ways of being complicated as well as by their phonology and syntax. I asked my question because I was looking into how other languages use gender and came to the conclusion that none were free from that complication. So I agree with you so far. All languages have gender.
'Natural gender' has nothing to do with 'grammatical gender.' The reason we have words for male and female persons and pet animals is because they are male and female. Calling something male or female is not grammatical gender. It's just reality, something the trans supremacist militia hates.
Swahili. If you want to translate “she/he went to the river”, you say “Alienda mtoni” which collapses she/he into the subject A- (Alienda) to mean “the person”. You always need context to use a gendered word (like mwanamke for woman) otherwise general conversation does not foreground it. There is literally no word for he/she in Swahili, as far as I know.
I’m pretty sure that was the intent behind the original wording. The interpretation of this being the remnant of a female human makes sense to me, but as this is an anecdotal account of Sandi Toksvig’s time in university, we really have no idea if this is a good example of the lack of a female perspective in anthropology or just a convenient strawman to make a point.
But the point is soo much of history ignores the female perspective (or the non-european perspective). Sometimes intentionally like all the female scientists that contribute to foundational studies and don’t get their name on the published paper.
And this is really damaging; I have a family member that legitimately believes that european-descent men are the smartest throughout history (when I brought up the Islamic Golden Age as a counter example he accused it of being propaganda).
American schools are so bad at teaching diverse history. So many still struggle with the basic truths about Columbus and the Natives.
Look at the ancient structures found throughout the world. The only one I know of in non-Mediterranian Europe is Stonehenge which, while impressive, is some stones hauled over a great distance and placed is an astronomically significant manner. Then you have pyramids and ziggurats in just about every other region except Northern Europe, North America, Australia, and Antarctica, ancient cities on every continent except Northern Europe, Australia, and Antarctica, Polynesians developing a means of marine navigation that is effective across the southern hemisphere (the Norse had a system that was effective in the North Atlantic), Australia having an oral history that has evidence of recording events that go back at least 10000 years (while surviving in some of the most inhospitable terrain on the planet). When you look at it, significant achievements in ancient Northern Europe were pretty sparse. We do seem to have caught up in the modern era, though.
Agreed, when speaking of the distant past, I always assume that by “man” they mean “mankind” aka human… Not males.
In the grand scheme, I don’t think it matters whether the thing was done by a male or female, the fact that it happened is the interesting thing about it.
I’m 100% positive that both men (males) and women contributed to these things, and it is impossible to know how much influence each sex had on any given thing, so I’m not sure why the sex of the ancient person who did it, matters.
I’m not sure why the sex of the ancient person who did it, matters.
Make that a common sentiment and a good chunk of the division surrounding modern discourse goes away. People care way too much about genitals both in the past and present.
Not only what your genitalia is, but what you do with it, seems to be a top priority for far too many people. They’re not your genitals, so maybe don’t worry about it?
I didn’t take it as a correction. More of a clarification. I omitted some extraneous detail that they added. I felt it was implied well enough by context that it didn’t need to be said, obviously they wanted to add more clarity to the statement.
In my mind the two statements are identical, except that mine relies on context and theirs is a bit more explicit in what is said.
Men did do their best to segregate women in the 18th and 19th century. And they succeeded. Even in the language.
Women fighting for women to be recognized in history is an important fight for women to be respected and recognized for their doing, because even now they aren’t.
And I’m not saying it’s an all men problem. It’s a society problem.
We’re talking about bone carvings. And you’re well into or after the bronze age.
What I’m referring to is significantly prior to anything you’re talking about. The events you’re referring to are a few hundred years ago, part of recorded history, while I’m talking about the early days of mankind, well before the printing press, paper, or even writing instruments like the fountain pen or quill.
When you go back, well over 1000 years ago, more like 3000+ years ago, why does it matter if a thing was done by a human person with male genitalia or female genitalia?
That was my statement. Either you vastly misunderstood, or you’re so occupied by making a point, you didn’t care.
We’re talking about history where mysoginy left a big footprint because it was made by men that incapable of thinking that women could be more than what they were in their time.
Exactly like today. You’re asking why it matters whether it was a man or a woman, yet this whole conversation sparked because someone said that it could be a woman.
I’m not disputing the fact that misogyny was (and is) and big problem, that women’s contributions were either disregarded or coopted by some guy and credit taken away from the actual contributor.
That happened. A lot.
But in the times before the written history books, we should be less concerned about the gender of an individual who we think used a thing in a new/innovative way for the time. I don’t think that studies of bone carvings or other ancient artifacts, being referred to as an “achievement of man” should imply, or was ever meant to imply, that it was done by someone with a penis. In that context, in all cases, for all intents and purposes “man” should, and as far as I know, is, thought of as “human” or “mankind”.
This isn’t a debate about the sociopolitical unfairness towards women, it’s a semantic argument about using the term “man” to refer to a human individual or someone who is a part of mankind. Bluntly, I took the statement in the OP as a tongue in cheek joke by the professor. They know that’s not what it meant, and used the assumption that “man” = “mankind” as the juxtaposition to subvert expectations, to crack wise about it. The same way someone would say “you know what sucks about twenty six year olds? There’s twenty of them” where the premise directs you to think of someone who is 26, and the punchline indicates that your assumption of it being a statement about people who are 26 years old, was wrong. That’s what makes it funny. Granted, that’s not very funny, but it’s the structure of a very common type of joke.
That’s what’s in the OP.
Instead, here we are talking about women’s suffrage for a field where they probably only remark about the gender of someone as a footnote.
In the context of prehistory it’s to my knowledge taken to be short for mankind and feck all else. I agree its ambiguous in the modern age which is likely why it’s dieing out. Science doesn’t like ambiguous wordage
In history where we have names and context I absolutely agree and it is good to see the important women in history finally getting brought to the forefront
That’s the correct interpretation of that use of the word, and the quote in the post is meaning to use it in that way before pretending it’s a gotcha.
The term man (from Proto-Germanic *mann- “person”) and words derived from it can designate any or even all of the human race regardless of their sex or age. In traditional usage, man (without an article) itself refers to the species or to humanity (mankind) as a whole.
I don’t know about English, but in French in the 19th century men did enforce the use of homme (men) instead of humain (human) in the déclaration des droits de l’homme et du citoyen, and in the language, because they did want to segregate women. It was a purposeful and deliberate decision.
Ya know. The fact that active users was going down made me feel like part of the 1% of stubborn assholes but ever since RiF went dark the only time I’ve been on reddit is when a Google search took me there because fuck spez. I’m in it for the long haul. I won’t be going back. And ya know what? Fuck Google too. I’ve migrated to Firefox and DuckDuckGo since then too. Idk maybe it’s just cause I am stubborn but I refuse to be a hypocrite.
I hope you’re donating to the respective libreddit instance hoster, because unlike Reddit, they’re not a multibillion corporation with a steady ad income to pay for their traffic
If you’re not, then I suggest you use old.reddit.com with uBlock Origin
I joined !privacy and now I use GrapheneOS (instead of Android), Fedora (instead of Windows), Firefox (instead of chrome), Mullvad VPN, jmp.chat (instead of google voice), and Kagi (instead of google search).
It’s a rabbit hole.
Although Fedora was mostly because an update to windows 11 completely broke it and I didn’t feel like trying to fix windows so I just wiped my laptop and installed Fedora.
it’s an android keyboard that specializes in thumb movements, and in principle anables one to type fast using a single hand. That being said it is devilishly difficult at first and it has no autotorrect or suggestioins as of yet, causing small misspellings here and there
I assumed active users was going down partly because some of us created multiple accounts on different instances in the beginning to get a feel for it all, then ended up just using one
i hardly use lemmy compared to rif but i was under the belief reddit content is just better but the app sucks. i was wrong turns out it all sucks. rif just gave the shit a tuxedo.
nowadays i look at reddit and the content is asisine its all the same shitty headlines and weird ask questions “how much sex does the average woodchuck have during football season?”
it feels like Facebook. lifeless and like everyone is pretending
Just gave this a try, downloaded from .world just fine, but uploading to .ml gives this error: ERROR: Failed Login - HTTP status client error (403 Forbidden) for url (lemmy.ml/api/v3/user/login)
I’m not very tech savvy when it comes to this, but would it have anything to do with the anti-bot stuff that lemmy.ml has implemented in the sign-up process? You now have to answer a few questions and basically write your reason for making an account before it lets you even submit the request for review.
To use the tool you need to make your new account first manually - then you can port over your settings with the tool - so it shouldn’t be affected by this.
So no, lemmy.ml shouldn’t be blocking it, unless it’s got something enabled to disable all API logins - though I would think that would break everything (i.e. apps).
Thanks for the feedback. The username and password are indeed correct. I copied and pasted from Bitwarden and used the exact same ones to login to the lemmy.ml site. I do wonder if there is some sort of anti-bot measures that Colonel Sanders mentioned below.
Also: I tried just my username vs email but neither worked and I also don’t have MFA enabled yet. Super weird.
Honestly it isn’t. Nothing about the Fediverse is private or inherently secure in that way. Everything is public. And you should assume that everything you publish through activity pub could eventually be looked at by anyone. If you want private or secure messaging there are non-activity pub open source secure alternate. In fact signing up for Lemmy there’s even a field to enter for one. Whether or not a server federates with meta. Meta is still going to data mine the ever-loving shit out of all of them. The point is. None of us are at Meta’s wim about being flooded with their toxic content.
Honestly I want to see meta flooded with our content. So much anti-threads anti Meta sentiment. Actual leftists. And not just make believe right-wing liberals who’ve been conditioned to think that they are left. It would be hilarious to watch Meta try to play wack-a-mole sanitizing everything. To please their reptilian corporate overlords. And if you don’t care and just don’t want to see it. You can always block them personally. Why let them data mine in peace. I say we make them work for it.
I’m not real sure how much the Threads Algorithm is going to pass through Mastodon content (and even less sure if it will even be able to pass through Lemmy content). I think the much more valuable aspect is you can pitch your Threads friends that they can move to the Fediverse and actually get to choose what content they see rather than which influencers paid Meta to fill up your feed.
Oh they are going to fight it either way no doubt. But why make it easy on them I say. And you’re right. If we have access to their content and can provide actual linear feeds like people want with no toxic algorithms. It’s win-win for us and still mostly a loss for them. Even if we defiederate with them they’re still going to data mine we just cut ourself off from reaching those people preemptively.
Agreed about influencers. Meta wouldn’t be doing this at all if they didn’t have a plan (or multiple plans) to monetize it. The whole reason I left Reddit and plan to leave Twitter was that I very much dislike having any part of my online enjoyment at the mercy of the whims of gigantic corporate assholes that think they are far more important than they are. Meta has been an awful and abusive actor in the tech world, why would any freedom-loving person want anything to do with them in a freedom-loving space?! Why would anyone just wait and see what they do this time to decide they’re an awful company with only their profits in mind and no qualms about making those profits at a cost to its users?!
I would add to this that its not just the fediverse, anything you put on the internet should be assumed to be public and non-deletable. Even with GDPR and everything, if the host deletes everything there could dtill be backups, archives, or some random person, corporation, or government could backup everything. Use secure services like signal for things you want to be private and just assume everything else could be public forever.
It’s not really about privacy, though. It’s about the risk of Meta going “Embrace, extend, extinguish” on the fediverse, and the only way to protect against that is by not letting them interact with the majority of it from the get-go. ploum.net/2023-06-23-how-to-kill-decentralised-ne…
People keep saying that. Like it’s something that actually happens. And let’s be clear, it has happened with a number of commercial products. But Microsoft and others have never managed to EEE email, HTTP/HTTPS, Usenet, Linux, Java even. And they’ve tried haaaaaaaaaard. Google didn’t EEE XMPP either. It still exists. I use it daily. The author is misrepresenting what happened.
What happened is that too many people felt obligated to work with corporation that had little interest in working with them. Rather than to focus on their own system and continue to update or develop it. Neglecting their core user base, chasing after people who didn’t seek it out and didn’t care what they were using so long as it worked. They wasted time and effort. But Google didn’t actually kill anything. And all the people using Google talk typically weren’t interested about XMPP in the first place and never would be.
It goes beyond that even. Lemmy is developed by socialists. And not just the more reasonable bunch of socialists like myself. But straight up militant leninists. They’re part of the core development team if not the whole thing. And they have no interest in catering to or coddling misbehaving corporations. They are going to do what they want and what they feel they need to do when they need to do it. And if meta or anyone else tries to screw it up. They’re not going to pay one single bit of attention to them and just keep on doing what they’ve been doing
This is a tool with a GUI that does profile migration. You can use it in Windows and Linux. It migrates almost everything, including subscribed communities.
It doesn’t matter what app you use to connect to Lemmy, it works with the Lemmy API. But, if you’re asking if it only works on a desktop, that’s a yes. And it works on MacOS as well, just read that in the info.
This is great. Then all the people complaining that lemmy.world is “too big” can now be appeased with others leaving lemmy.world. Glad to see the community solve each other’s problems organically! :)
Oh look, this place is just like Reddit with the rational talk buried in the comments. Thank you for being here despite the apparently unpopular opinion we share.
Facebook doesn’t give a shit about its users and treats them and their data as a crop to harvest. On Meta platforms, you’re the product. On the fediverse, you’re just another user, free to do what you want. Disgust is indeed an emotion, and I’m 100% fine with being disgusted with Meta.
Currently you can with with Lemmy Connect. Maybe with others as well, given the amount of apps coming out by the day. And I’m guessing they’ll fold the feature into Lemmy/Kbin proper sometime in the future.
My (limited) understanding is that if you (we) block other instances locally, that won’t stop meta (or whoever) from accessing your (our) information and posts.
Right, there are limitations to app based user blocking of instances. Lemmy/Kbin proper would need to implement a robust user account privacy framework to provide the granular control you’re interested in. Personally, I’d like to see this as well.
Currently, Connect has that option, but it doesn’t actually block the instance, it just doesn’t show feeds from that instance. So, technically, the two instances are still federated.
Currently, there is no way, though a migration of a user profile from one instance to another is planned as a feature, but not currently being worked on.
Same, I was only donating $2 a month but I’m not alone in finding this completely unacceptable. I applied at lemmy.ml. It’s the scorpion and the frog with these people suggesting we should just wait and see.
“~Let’s see if Zuck doesn’t act like an anti-competitive asshole this time” <–where the hell is the logic in that?!
This behavior is why the fediverse alienate users and makes it hostile for new people to join.
They didn’t do anything, yet. Give them the chance but start with 2 strikes on their account already. They fuck up, THEN you defederate. Innocent until proven otherwise.
Edit: go on, downvote me. Show me your face. Show me how you’re all against growth on Lemmy and niceness to each other.
Corporations like Meta have shown time and time again that they cannot be trusted to play nice with anyone else. Have we already forgotten about Cambridge Analytica or the plethora of other scandals they’ve been at the center of? The proof has been in plain view for a while now.
They don’t get more data because they’re federated. They literally the exact same amount of data as they do know just by scraping mastodon or Lemmy. They’re an even player in this market. Somehow you all keep forgetting that. If you don’t want meta do have data from activity pub, you being here already violates that ideal.
Okay, but that doesn’t address any of the points I brought up.
You said to give Meta a chance. The rest of us are broadly gesturing at all the shit they’ve done in the past, and how we want as little to do with that as possible.
There is nothing they can do to fuck up your experience, ESPECIALLY on Lemmy though. Threads is a completely different concept from Lemmy and activity pub is well defined.
The only thing they could do is just not moderate threads and therefore putting spam in everyone’s feeds. That’s about it. I don’t think they’re leaving that unmoderated.
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems like it would be trivially easy for Meta to make an army of bot accounts to manipulate whichever posts they want into being near the top of people’s feeds. That could be regular ads disguised as normal posts (a la Reddit-style guerilla marketing), or even more political astroturfing.
There are many years of proof already about facebook/meta acting very maliciously, actively breaking laws and being fined for it, is that not proof enough? How many more do you need before you can say they’re not innocent at all?
Innocent until proven otherwise is a concept for criminal court.
We aren’t putting someone in jail, we are looking at their past business practices and deciding not to do business with them based on their obvious habits.
I suppose Metas history of actively being a bad actor working against societies best interests and enabling hate groups doesn’t qualify as ‘something’…
User pointed to a history of bad behaviour to counter the idea of “lets wait”. User suggested to learn from history and use that as a metric for decisions.
You just trolled your way into this and think consequentially you are ‘clever’. You are not.
Oh damn guess I will migrate to lemmy.ml and use that until I find out if lemmy.world defederates or not. (Edit turns out it is run by tankies and they are federated with lemmygrad.) While I may or may not stay on lemmy.world depending on if we federate with meta or not. I will no longer suggest Lemmy.ml.
What exact behaviors are they looking for that would cause them to push the block button?
Threads can do very well for themselves without the fediverse as they are already demonstrating. What real motive do they have to join the fediverse except to shut it down?
Thank you and the other admins for the thoughtful and transparent answer.
We would like to express our disappointment with the negative and threatening tone of some of these discussions
Considering that a great percentage of the Fediverse userbase are ex-users of Reddit and Twitter that left due to CEO actions, I get that they (including me) don’t trust Meta or want anything to do with them. I agree that discussion should be civil nonetheless.
Yeah I really hope they come out with the user’s ability to block instances soon. Would be a great feature addition. There are a couple of instances that I take no issue with and don’t want others to be blocked access too, but I really just don’t want to see them in my feed.
Wait, an app can do this? I thought the devs of Lemmy itself needed to add the feature. I didn’t think that was possible app-side without adding the feature to Lemmy.
How do you block an entire instance in their app?
Edit: Found it! This is interesting. I didn’t know it was possible. Finally I can get the porn off my front page without getting rid of NSFW memes. Thanks!
Edit 2: Weirdly, Connect does not seem to show my newly subscribed communities in my subscriptions even though the other apps do. What a strange bug. Hmm…I think I’ll hold off on using it until things like that work better for me.
I think I saw someone else mentioned that bug as well. I think your subscription list in the main menu doesn’t automatically refresh after you subscribe to a new community so currently you would have to close and reopen the app. Updates and bug fixes have been daily lately so hopefully that gets fixed soon.
Unfortunately I haven’t found a way to get newly subscribed communities to show up. Closing and reopening the app as you said doesn’t seem to work for me. I have tried that and deleting and re-adding my account, but it doesn’t seem to work. Once that is ironed out, it might be a nice switch. But it’s a pretty big bug.
The problem with Meta is that they will harm the Fediverse.
I found this article interesting, written by a dev who worked with google during the XMPP EEE and was originally a XMPP dev, thinking that a big company could only mean more success for the FOSS alternative. He was wrong.
I wish even one person could give the actual steps on how Facebook is going to ruin the fediverse instead of just spamming this same one article and throwing around the same buzzwords like XMPP, EEE etc. of which nobody had heard about a week ago.
There’s so many people here right now reading this thinking that defederating is going to prevent Facebook from seeing the content you post here and collecting the little data that’s available to them. It doesn’t. That’s not what defederating does.
It’s not about the data they can collect. As long as we don’t use the Meta app or register in their instance we’re on the clear. The problem is giving them power.
I’m not an evil genius shithead like Zuck, but it could go this way:
They enter the Fediverse as the biggest instance.
They artificially slow down connections with other instances. That way, lots of users from smaller intances will migrate to the Meta one. Only the ones concerned about our privacy will remain in independent instances.
Once most of the userbase of the Fediverse is on their instance, they keep slowing it, or adding “features” only available in their app, effectively building a wall between them and the rest of instances.
Finally they defederate, leaving the rest of the fediverse weaker than it was.
It’s almost like some people crave enshitification.
“Hey this decentralized stuff is really cool, let’s connect with the most gigantic corporate assholes who would absolutely centralize all of it if they could…you know, so we can grow! What could go wrong?”
And remember, because I feel this always needs to be said with such sums…
193 million isn’t enough for him, and 193 million plus whatever millions he made in years prior isn’t enough for him. He’s going public because he’s a broken, disturbed human being that looks at his unethical levels of wealth, enough for most of the other humans that live here to live 2 dozen extravagant lifetimes, and still demands mooooooaaaaaar.
Why isn’t this widely accepted as severe mental illness?! This is hoarding disorder.
These aren’t big ocean house sums. These are buying politicians sums, and they are only achievable through exploiting other human beings and selfishly pocketing most of the value of their labor because you can get away with it.
Even the more premium offerings, like supreme court justices, are getting to be pretty reasonably priced and they often run deals, too, so it’s a good idea to keep an eye out and shop around for the best price.
There’s been plenty of stories that have come out that it took a relatively small amount to buy important votes. At this point they should just crowd fund buying out these guys. At least it would drive the price up and make it more transparent how shitty some of these people are.
Is it possible to set a roof on private wealth? Everything above put into public funds? Give them a “you win at capitalism” trophy and let them into some other game to play.
Enforced, adequately high progressive taxation could do that, in fact we had tax rates closer akin to that prior to Reagan, and at one point our highest tax rate was close to 90% as it should be so as to limit accruing enough wealth to warp our society unilaterally beyond their single vote with media and political bribery, but that died a long time ago in the name of “turning the bull loose.”
But then the greediest fucks among us bribed our leaders to get their way, to thunderous applause by idiot conservative peasants and many so called democrats, today’s neoliberals, and here we are, planet burning, terminal stage capitalism, good fucking times. But hey, as long as Bezos can have a second mega yacht to keep his first mega yacht company (he really does look it up) I guess it was all worth our impending collapse.
You know what people did when the highest tax rate was 90%? They made sure they’d still “max out” 25 years from now. They invested in their company reputation and their workers.
The 1950s had a great thing going. Once you hit $100,000 in a year, anything beyond that was taxed at about 90%. Nobody wanted to give the government 90% of what they’d be making, so no one did, and the 1950’s were absolutely booming for the US middle and lower class. You could afford a new house, car, and two kids at a job you didn’t need a college diploma for (or often even a highschool diploma) on a single income household.
Without having to pay ridiculous sums of money to the ceo’s and executives and whatnot, companies were just left with the option of using the funds to invest back into their companies and their employees instead going after pocketing as much money as quickly as possible.
Not only would I be willing to give them a trophy, give them a fucking parade, shout-out at the next SOTU, let them sign the original constitution or some shit, whatever the fuck these mentally ill people need to stop destroying society.
Hell keep a leaderboard of who “produced” the most wealth and let them compete with each other. The winner every year gets their name carved in a new " Stanley Cup of Captalism" (the hockey one, not the crazy white lady one). All of that shit would be infinitely cheaper than having billionaires around.
I think the absence of cap also makes super rich people motivated to invest in new projects that could make them even richer. If they don’t have this motivation anymore, it may reduce this investment source, they’d just keep what they have and don’t see the point in doing more with their money. Would the state do that better from taxes money? Maybe
But that means they seek projects that must be profitable and that’s exactly why I want the bloated investment power off their hands and into public projects that value psyche and society in the long run. Profit seeking leads to sick companies like Apple etc. with stances like “the customer should not be able to repair their shit”.
I think better regulation of the market so it benefits the consumers, like what EU tries to do, is more realistic than imagining a state being able to sustainably handle marketable innovation. I don’t think a state would have come out with efficient web search, smartphones or gen AI for exemple.
It’s called tax and all countries do it except for the fucking United States that has spread a disease of letting companies and billionaires just skip taxes, in a criminal mob act that is robbing the people of their money in an open corrupt way that nobody dares stand up against
All countries? Uh, Russian, Indian, and Chinese billionaires have much more freedom to do whatever they want.
In the US, Donald Trump (who claims to be a billionaire) is currently being fined $450 million dollars for underpaying his taxes. He accrues $110K per day in interest on that fine. And he was President of the US!
Here’s the thing… Money is just a points system after you get into the .1%. A billion dollars, with 5% non-compounding interest (ridiculously conservative) would yield $50 million a year. That’s a metric fuckton of money, I can’t imagine a luxury (not based on rarity or shaping society) that you could personally enjoy.
So I agree, we should take all their shit, except a single home and personal possessions, and give them a $50 million dollar stipend each year. Let’s pin that to the minimum wage and call it absolute rich. Hell, let’s let them divide it up between their children… Their family would be set for generations, and any of them could go for the prize to add another one time prize to go even higher. Let’s make it fancy as hell, give them a special card or a jeweled broach they can pull out and buy anything without seeing a price… And let’s make it not roll over, because we want them to be post-money
Now, the finances work out easily if we let the government invest money (crazy that we don’t use that instead of taxes at this point), but the trouble is it’s not about money, they need a new game to play. We want to make sure they fuck off and measure dicks with each other in a way that doesn’t use our species as the playing board. They want to compete with each other for rank and social status, and we want them occupied
I don’t think there’s a one size fits all solution, so I’ll throw out some ideas. A children’s card game, next level Pokemon go battles, a monthly token that can be granted by anyone (with physical proximity) to signify they were helped by an unbillionare, unbillionare exclusive sports (I’d watch), maybe even points for how much of their stipend they don’t spend in a year
We can even let them prestige, and see if with a small gift of $5 million dollars they can do it again… By that point I’m guessing their brains have probably rotted, but I’d like to give them the option
Maybe we give them nicer badges that they can whip out based on points, maybe we make a points store where they can use the emergency alert system or rent out monuments for a pizza party… Just things that money can’t buy and don’t meaningfully hurt the rest of us
Personally, I really love the idea of video game duels and MMA matches (either we laugh or they improve themselves to a point it’s actually impressive, win-win. Let’s stream it)
Let’s bring back the nobility, but in a way that’s fun for us and doesn’t include ownership of people. Hell, let’s add in titles, and let you get in through capitalism, scientific breakthroughs, or social change
After they introduced reddit gold, they made enough money to finance the service beyond anyone’s lifetime. Now, all that money is gone.
Reddit has been mismanaged, just like almost every silicon valley or venture capitalist driven business. The goal isn’t to make a business profitable, let alone one that is sustainable or serves society, the goal is to meet a certain arbitrary metric that only serves shareholders at the expense of anything and everyone else.
Why isn’t this widely accepted as severe mental illness?! This is hoarding disorder.
Doctors don’t diagnose people with “evil”. That’s what priests and philosophers are for. Doctors diagnose people with illnesses and injuries. Things that negatively impact the patient.
And he’s accomplished so hilariously little compared to the other billionaires out there. Not that they deserve billions either, but look at Google and the ridiculous progress they’ve made, and innovations they’ve created, and code they’ve open sourced. Steve wants to be among such “peers” in terms of wealth while having done relatively nothing.
Once you get to that level of wealth it becomes a mentally ill competition game. It’s no longer about the money or what you could or will do with the money, it’s trying to get yourself into higher tiers of even more abhorrent wealth accumulation.
“How did you get here? Business class?”
Laughs the people with private jets
“Where are you staying? A resort?”
Laughs the people with a house in every city
“Where will you go when we end the world? Not my bunker”
This is not particularly surprising. Lemmy was started as an anti-corporate project by leftists after /r/chapotraphouse got quarantined and later banned (subreddit for the most popular podcast and most donated patreon at the time), with the explicit goal of preventing corporate control from being able to silence leftists when they’re blasting off. CTH was skyrocketing in subscribers at the time it was quarantined on August 8th 2019, and when even quarantining didn’t stop its growth or slow down its activity afterwards Reddit pulled the plug under the excuse it promoted violence, but the only particularly edgy thing ever said there was “slave owners should be killed” and support for John Brown. This evolved post-ban into the assessment that Spez banned it because he wants to own slaves.
When that happened there was a massive shift in the leftist parts of reddit as we very quickly realised we’d be targeted if reddit ever deemed us to be too successful, and projects like Lemmy began in reaction. CTH’s community in fact moved to Lemmy 3 years ago, and resides on Hexbear.net but has not yet joined the rest of federated lemmy due to technical issues (it used to be a fork with a different front end).
Given lemmy’s specific anti-corporate origins seeing Lemmy.ml do this should surprise nobody. It’s the correct move anyway.
Always love to hear the deep lore. Lemmy’s early development makes a lot more sense now. Good on them(you) to leave everything open and learn from Reddit’s mistakes.
Still, free and open has a limit. No Facebook and no Nazis. That’s just common sense everyone used to have.
The fact that you people can’t see how distasteful it is to compare the fucking Nazis to breakfast foods in a cute way, says everything anyone needs to know about you.
Weather into what? If you’re trying to suggest the old, “you’ll get more conservative as you get older and start paying taxes,” then I can just stop you right there because it’s been several decades now, and I’m only going in the opposite direction. The last few years have pretty much radicalized me against capitalism, and pushed me further left than I’ve been my entire adult life.
But any day now, right?
If that wasn’t what you meant, then you can disregard.
Not what I meant - I’ve also become more left-wing with age. Particularly with regard to class stratification. But I also put a lot more effort into getting along with people, at least in real life.
No idea, I don’t use 4chan. It can produce funny content, but I don’t think I could stand to wade through the shit. It’s a legacy username, it’s mine and I cherish it.
Yes, it didn’t take long for somebody to accuse me of being a literal nazi. Those are odd people, though. Don’t tend to meet them in the real world, only on the internet.
The word “Nazi” and especially “fascist” have been diluted into “bigot” at best and “person I disagree with” at worst. The right are just as bad with “communist” and “socialist”, although with the difference that socialism is a perfectly decent ideology, and even communism isn’t as bad as fascism.
No, I’m fine with that definition, that’s a sane use of the term. Part of me thinks we’d be better off reserving “nazi” for those who openly align themselves with the historical group and just use the descriptor “ultranationalist” for modern instances of ultranationalism. Might reduce equivocation.
I think the problem there is that a shit load of people are so uneducated that they don’t associate nationalism with the nazis, they only associate the holocaust as the bad thing they did and really don’t understand that ultranationalist ideology will lead to a repeat of what occurred over and over again. Thus it becomes much easier to just say nazi when referring to these ultranationalists even though it’s technically incorrect when the ultranationalism they support is actually polish, or american, or fucking italian, idk etc etc etc. They’re all have pretty much the same goals just in a different set of completely made up lines on a map.
You could call them an authoritarian paramilitary group, but they’re not nazis. That doesn’t automatically make them good, it’s just that nazism is a specific political ideology.
I’ve yet to meet an anarchist following anything like a coherent ideology in that respect. They all seem very eager to impose themselves on others. I suppose one guy took a more academic position, but still seemed to idolise violence. Maybe the authority is decentralised, but frequently wielded as explicit force. Not far from libertarianism in that regard. Doesn’t appeal.
Cluster munitions, for all I care. What’s that got to do with anything? I was explaining my use of the word authoritarian. I’d make them illegal, if I were in a position to do so. But my place in society is installing irrigation and water management systems, I have to focus on that.
Mate I do not give a flying fuck what any of these people with zero power are. I care about actually achieving shit. Fortunately I live in the UK where this bizarre sectarianism has absolutely no presence, thank fuck for that.
My point here is that you’ve got to get a grip. We don’t do this bizarre shit over in the UK because there’s literally no point, there is no communist revolution just around the corner, the conditions do not exist for it. What matters is what we can achieve RIGHT NOW, when a revolution is actually on the cards then we can decide what that revolution should actually fucking look like. In the meantime these people are all mild lukewarm elected MPs as socdems that just want to give people more welfare and improve basic living standards, but you would call them evil tankies for any of these things.
If you don’t build at least SOME power now you will have absolutely none when the conditions deteriorate enough for a real revolution, and if that is the case it will be fascism that wins, not any sect of the absolutely non-existent left in your country.
What you’re viewing above is how radical you need to be just to establish and maintain lukewarm european welfare and social safety nets. Get that into your head and you might actually stop the aussie government dumping migrants into concentration camps and help improve people’s lives for fuck’s sake. You should know better than this anyway, half the union leadership of australia are marxist-leninists, and the other half are trots. What union are you in? I’ll tell you whether you need to throw your union leader under the bus for some fucking do-nothing liberal because of your sectarianism obsession. Are you even in one?
Not really among the actual leftists. There is a conflict between the neoliberal starmerites who fake being left and the actual leftists that he has been purging so hard it puts stalin to shame, there is barely any fighting among the actual UK left because we do not give a fuck. I don’t fucking care what the person next to me on the roof of an Israeli weapons factory believes, I care that he’s going to have my back when the cops show up. I do not care what the person next to me on the picket line believes, I care that they’re fucking there. If you said this shit in person at an event you’d get knocked out or if you’re lucky sidelined and ostracised by just about every group in the left for being a wrecker whose goal is clearly not to help but to divide.
Very very rarely there is some extremely cringe jabs between the trots and the MLs, but not particularly often because there’s no fucking point. The anarchists are ironically the least sectarian, simply caring that people show up when the hunt sabos need it because there’s fuck all people in the countryside as it is to be picky about what kind of leftist someone is. Everyone shows up for everyone’s events, because having a left is far more fucking important than arguing over 100 year old cringe while workers lives are being made worse NOW. All you’re doing with this shit is helping capitalists by weakening leftists.
And you didn’t answer my question about what union you’re in?
I agree with a lot of your points about pragmatism but there absolutely is factionalism on the left in the UK, unless (as it looks like you are doing) you say some of them are not actually leftist and therefore the remaining group is small enough that it’s not arguing with itself.
The right are also split but in normal times they are better at keeping the worst of it behind closed doors and rallying around the leader when the dust settles. Lack of message discipline is what kills the left at the ballot box. New Labour were good at it and they won; Starmer is trying to do the same - sensible tactic in my opinion.
The neoliberals are not actually leftist. This is a 100% fact, if you are arguing that the capitalists are leftists then you are also not a leftist. They are centre right. The transphobic neoliberals and privatizers trying to destroy the nhs and build a “free and open” energy market for the sake of preventing our attempts at nationalisation can eat my ass, so can their by-association transphobic mysogynistic supporters. You can get to fuck with your “yeah they’re actually toooootally leftists dude belieeeeeve me” bullcrap. It is unbelievable that you would mention New Labour under Tony Blair, a party that killed 2 million people and exploited the fuck out of the middle east and continue to pretend that you are left wing, you are not, you are an imperialist, capitalist neoliberal.
It is blatantly clear why you didn’t answer the question about what union you’re in and did not cite any organising, you don’t do any for the left and you’ve made that abundantly clear to anyone that knows these parties and groups. The only reason you have any votes at all is because the majority of people here are americans and they have absolutely no fucking idea what we’re talking about now.
All they need to know is that you support neoliberals. The crowd here definitely knows neoliberalism isn’t leftist.
No surprises that this conversation started off with you trying to discredit me by screeching “tankie”, you knew that if you made it clear what your actual political affiliations are and made a real political argument it would be unpopular.
There is nothing personal about pointing out your support for transphobes. It’s just a political fact. If you don’t want to be a transphobe, do not support transphobes. Much like if you don’t want to be called a neoliberal, don’t defend neoliberals, and definitely don’t try to claim they’re left.
I’m not a transphobe and you have no information on which to base that assumption. If you call everyone a transphobe it ceases to have any meaning and you have nothing left for when someone is being actually transphobic.
You support Starmer. Starmer’s labour is transphobic, he has given interviews to mumsnet where he says explicitly terf things. He has explicitly come out in favour of segregating trans people from women’s bathrooms and other spaces. You support this. Ergo you are transphobic. The party needs shot of him he’s a disgrace.
“I totally wasn’t saying I support Starmer when I said what he’s doing to labour is actually a good thing and also that New Labour, who he is an ideological successor to, were good!”
Pull the other one mate. At least have this conversation without the dishonesty.
This is such tenuous reasoning. Firstly I didn’t say “I support Starmer”, I commented on whether or not I thought his tactics would be effective in getting elected. I often comment on things the Tories do and say in the same way, and saying " I think X will work" is not an endorsement of X.
Secondly, even if I do intend to vote labour it doesn’t mean I’m endorsing 100% of everything the party/leader says. On an individual level you say don’t care about peoples views and only what they do / achieve so this attitude towards Labour seems completely bizarre to me?
The ‘perfection or bust’ attitude to political parties and leaders gets you another Tory government whereas the pragmatic option might actually get us some incremental improvement. Ironic that we’ve ended up here in a conversation that started as a discussion about left wing factionalism where you claimed it doesn’t exist.
Honestly, as a left wing person in the UK who made some reasonable points higher up the thread about actually achieving something that improves the lives of people now by being pragmatic, who are you going to vote for in the 2024 election?
The ‘perfection or bust’ attitude to political parties and leaders gets you another Tory government whereas the pragmatic option might actually get us some incremental improvement. Ironic that we’ve ended up here in a conversation that started as a discussion about left wing factionalism where you claimed it doesn’t exist.
And this attitude is the one that has existed up until now. Good job neoliberals! Well done! You’re responsible for everything that is wrong in this country!
Honestly, as a left wing person in the UK who made some reasonable points higher up the thread about actually achieving something that improves the lives of people now by being pragmatic, who are you going to vote for in the 2024 election?
The issue is that you don’t actually participate in anything outside of voting once every 5 years. You have barely any idea what fighting to improve workers lives involves, and your assessment of the struggle against neoliberals as a supporter of them is trash. Why am I vicious about them? Because it is precisely what is necessary to get the leadership change we need to get even a mild centrist in. Starmer is not just any neoliberal, he is an arch neoliberal selected by Kissinger and friends at their clubhouse the Trilateral Commission, where they all rub shoulders deciding the future of neoliberal politics and strategy in the world. We can’t get a leftist into power, it’s not happening for at least 10 years, all we can do is try to get this shitbag out, try to undo the dismantling of party democracy he has performed internally, try to purge the zionists and those funded by fucking mossad, and try to get some sort of normal back from which we will have a starting point for leftist politics in the party again. They went scorched earth once they got Corbyn out. They completely fucked everything.
That’s why I’m vicious about it. Because anything other than it does not display the gravity of the situation to naive people that still think everyone in the country simply has different ideas about “what’s best for everyone” and that some of them are a little incompetent. None of these people are incompetent people that want to do good, they are competent and want to do awful shit things for the vast majority of people for the benefit of the finance industry backers that own pretty much everything.
Anti-zionism is not anti-semitism. Zionism itself is anti-semitic. It is the ideology of creating Israel as an ethnostate, it was a fringe of jews at one point in time but the people who wanted to kick the jews out of Europe popularised and supported its growth(hence why it is itself antisemitic in origin).
Anti-zionism is literally just being against the state of Israel as a jewish ethnostate and apartheid regime. It is also supported by a very large number of internationalist jewish organisations.
As for mossad having funded certain people currently organising inside the labour party, this is just factually correct. We have the receipts and it’s openly known.
Decide when we get there. Rumours still flying around that Peace & Justice are considering a run, which would essentially function as a pressure party to Labour the way ukip functioned as a pressure party that achieved Brexit, but from the left obviously. There are some other projects but it’s uncertain what kind of base they’ll have until we get into an election season. For now you can put me down as “not Starmer”.
I can’t say I’ve heard of them. Are you in a rural or urban seat? I think labour have votes to spare in urban areas so it’s unlikely to be very successful but if you can get lots of people to vote like that in a rural seat you might be successful.
Personally I think what the UK needs is PR, and we’d probably need a big coalition of left and right to achieve it. Without PR a lot of the time the smaller parties achieve very little.
You won’t have unless you’re actively involved politically in some way outside of just voting once every 5 years. It’s one of Corbyn’s organising projects: thecorbynproject.com
There have been longstanding rumours about backroom talks with union leaders about spinning out a new party and taking the unions(and their memberships) to it. But this partially hinges on having leftist leadership in all of the major ones which isn’t the case at the current moment in time. There are 2 union leadership elections between now and the next election that will be fairly major in determining whether this strategy can work down the line.
PR is never going to happen without mass unrest there is literally no incentive for either party to support it without a political collapse occurring where it is used as a concession to prevent further unrest. Both parties benefit from FPTP and literally every leftist would immediately leave the labour party for proper democratic socialist and communist parties that would very suddenly gain massive amounts of power because more than a third of the country would vote for them if not for FPTP. It’s just unrealistic to even discuss it because it’s not happening, the libdems sank that ship, you can thank Nick Clegg for that, President of Global Affairs at Meta, best bud of Zuckerberg with the same powers as him at the company.
There are three options here, leftist which is anarchist or communist, but the anarchists don’t vote so they’re functionally irrelevant. The other options are neoliberal or tory. There aren’t any others, pretending there are is absolute nonsense and your unwillingness to just speak straight instead of in riddles makes you sus from the outset.
Why do you say that? The electoral structure is almost identical to Cuba, although significantly larger in scale (due to obvious population differences), both systems were derivative of the USSR’s system.
What unique structural feature makes you call one fascist over the other? I at least assume you don’t consider Cuba fascist. And what exactly is your take on the USSR? You are aware that the electoral system of Yugoslavia under Tito was also extremely similar right? I mention this since you implied you were fond of titoism.
You realize things in the UK aren’t that bad, right? Like we have it way better than America. Nobody I know is seriously struggling. We luckily still have free healthcare and a social safety net. I hate to say it but you’re screaming over a much better situation than lots of countries are dealing with.
Even those remotely close to struggling don’t blame capitalism and are actually right wing or centrists. At least this is what I have seen personally. It’s not like these people are transphobic or racist either.
It’s people like you guys that scream endlessly that are part of the problem. You’re never going to convince anyone who doesn’t already support the cause like that.
We also know the shit show that happened in Russia the failed ML revolution there, and basically everywhere else that tried it. Backing ML is getting you nowhere fast. Anarchists have more luck these days.
I think it’s also worthwhile to point out that striking in the UK does almost nothing. This is partially because people don’t strike at the same time. If they did it would be utter chaos. Things might even change.
It’s also true that lots of strikes are not skilled labour. We all know jobs like bus driver are not paid very much, yet people complain anyway, and I can’t help but think: you knew exactly what kind of job you were getting into. I sort of know better because bus drivers are an essential function regardless of what you think of them, so they should be paid fairly. Lots of people won’t think like this though. It’s also dead easy to replace unskilled labourers so scabs are always going to be a problem.
Also even the conservatives come up with schemes to help the people that are public spending heavy. Examples include furlough, eat out to help out, and the £2 bus faires that are happening right now. They aren’t neoliberal at all. Schemes like that are not true right wing anymore than labour is true left wing in this country.
You realize things in the UK aren’t that bad, right? Like we have it way better than America. Nobody I know is seriously struggling. We luckily still have free healthcare and a social safety net. I hate to say it but you’re screaming over a much better situation than lots of countries are dealing with.
You are either taking the piss or you are completely and utterly sheltered in your middle class bubble.
4.2million children live in poverty, out of 12.7million total. This amounts to one third of children in poverty. The NHS is literally falling apart at the seams, my family works in the NHS, it has been strangled to death. A lot of it has been stealthily privatised and the rest is just being intentionally ruined. It’s on its last legs and is barely providing essential care.
Even those remotely close to struggling don’t blame capitalism and are actually right wing or centrists. At least this is what I have seen personally. It’s not like these people are transphobic or racist either.
This is factually incorrect. Low income votes go left while high income votes go right. There was a blip created by brexit where this was not the case because everything became the single issue of brexit. Low income voters were convinced that voting for brexit would improve their conditions (they were lied to successfully) and incorrectly voting against their best interests. This however is now returning to left, although with Starmer at the helm and people outside of the politically engage the vast majority of the country has no idea what a slime he truly is. Backed by the media who want to see the real left fucked over as well, he’ll likely do alright.
Backing ML is getting you nowhere fast. Anarchists have more luck these days.
Where exactly? Show me the successful anarchists?
It’s also true that lots of strikes are not skilled labour. We all know jobs like bus driver are not paid very much, yet people complain anyway, and I can’t help but think: you knew exactly what kind of job you were getting into.
Unskilled labour is a myth used to suppress wages. I honestly can’t believe you’re spouting this while claiming to be left wing at all.
Also even the conservatives come up with schemes to help the people that are public spending heavy. Examples include furlough, eat out to help out, and the £2 bus faires that are happening right now. They aren’t neoliberal at all. Schemes like that are not true right wing anymore than labour is true left wing in this country.
Furlough was an economic necessity. Eat out to help out is literally just a business promotion and has fuck all to do with helping the population it’s about business owners, literally their target audience.
I agree about the state of the NHS. The fact is though we still have an NHS, America never had one. Lots of countries don’t have healthcare either.
How exactly is unskilled labour a myth? Maybe I should use the term less skilled or just easily replaceable since it’s not 100% unskilled? Either way the result is the same: some labour takes way more time and training than other forms of labour. I don’t think you can complain when a scientist or doctor that spent 7+ years at University while not getting paid gets a higher salary at the end. If you think this is a radical idea I really don’t know what to tell you. I don’t think anybody should be on poverty wages.
This is factually incorrect. Low income votes go left while high income votes go right. There was a blip created by brexit where this was not the case because everything became the single issue of brexit.
I am reporting what I have seen amoung students rather than the general population. The ones who have already been in work or are having to work hard to support themselves while studying are more centrist or right wing.
4.2million children live in poverty, out of 12.7million total.
By third world country standards they are probably rich. Poverty is very much relative. Some people make less in a day than minimum wage in this country for an hour. It’s still not a good thing by any means, but that’s sadly the reality. I don’t think a socialist revolution is going to guarantee everybody has enough food, clothes, and other resources. A lot of people would inevitably end up poorer than to start with, at least for the foreseeable future.
How exactly is unskilled labour a myth? Maybe I should use the term less skilled or just easily replaceable since it’s not 100% unskilled? Either way the result is the same: some labour takes way more time and training than other forms of labour. I don’t think you can complain when a scientist or doctor that spent 7+ years at University while not getting paid gets a higher salary at the end. If you think this is a radical idea I really don’t know what to tell you.
Nah you should stop perpetuating far right anti-worker shit. Nobody is saying that.
I don’t think anybody should be on poverty wages.
Then stop saying the bullshit used to cause it.
I am reporting what I have seen amoung students rather than the general population. The ones who have already been in work or are having to work hard to support themselves while studying are more centrist or right wing.
So the people that can afford university education. You are sheltered and live in a bubble. I on the other hand grew up in squats.
By third world country standards they are probably rich.
Sound like a tory mate. Tell this to the 3million people in the country suffering from malnutrition. I genuinely can’t fucking believe you are saying this shit, today there are 3million people using foodbanks, 15 years ago this figure was 30,000 or so. Are you fucking dense? Blind? Literally oblivious to the cliff we have fallen off of?
Poverty is very much relative. Some people make less in a day than minimum wage in this country for an hour. It’s still not a good thing by any means, but that’s sadly the reality. I don’t think a socialist revolution is going to guarantee everybody has enough food, clothes, and other resources. A lot of people would inevitably end up poorer than to start with, at least for the foreseeable future.
Rent in the soviet union was 5% of your total income.
I grew up an area that’s recognized as one of the most deprived in England. It’s called Bridlington if you want to look it up. My family are not the worst off but we were never rich. My mum was a teaching assistant and/or teacher and my dad worked it hospitality as a manager. So not the worst jobs but also not the best. They both worked full time.
It’s also a completely wrong that only middle class people go to University. We have this amazing thing called student loans that are only repayed above certain wages. You get bigger loans the less well off your parents are.
I don’t know what you have to do to be classed as middle class because it’s not an easier defined term. It’s also not a term really used by marxism. They use the term petite bourgeois if my understanding is correct. I guess you could call my parents that as they were landlords. But at the same time they had to work full time at a normal job and all houses were mortgaged. So you could also say they are the proletariat. This is why the marixst class model dosen’t actually hold up always in real life. Real life is too complex as people can be in multiple classes at once.
You’re also going to get nowhere by disparaging other workers just because they earn more than you. That’s what you seem to want to do.
It’s also completely natural for some people to be paid more than others based on their labour. The Soviet Union had this exact policy for jobs that required more education or more physical work. That’s exactly how it should be outside of a post- scarcity society.
It’s good that rent was that low in the Soviet Union but you also have more needs than housing. Food comes to mind where many people starved due to collectivisation efforts in the Soviet Union at the start. I understand they rectified this later but it is probable that the early stages of a socialist society will have problems like this. Things are likely to get worse in the beginning - not better.
It used to be 100% free. When the country had less money than it does today. Oh and the railways we publicly owned. And the post office. And significantly more of the NHS. And the gas and water. And the rest. All at the same time. With less money.
I would not call it “amazing”. And you’re completely delusional if you think that the existence of student loans makes university accessible. Many people can not afford living expenses to make it work without familial support, which I’m glad you had but it’s not what many people have. It’s privileged.
I don’t know what you have to do to be classed as middle class because it’s not an easier defined term. It’s also not a term really used by marxism. They use the term petite bourgeois if my understanding is correct. I guess you could call my parents that as they were landlords. But at the same time they had to work full time at a normal job and all houses were mortgaged. So you could also say they are the proletariat. This is why the marixst class model dosen’t actually hold up always in real life. Real life is too complex as people can be in multiple classes at once.
Lol landlords are petite-bourgeoisie, not proles. The petite-bourgeoisie are in between workers and the bourgeoisie in that they both exploit and do some work because they are not yet exploiting enough to completely cease function as a worker. They’re also the biggest parasites on the planet.
It’s also completely natural for some people to be paid more than others based on their labour. The Soviet Union had this exact policy for jobs that required more education or more physical work. That’s exactly how it should be outside of a post- scarcity society.
I don’t know where you’ve got the impression that I think everyone should be paid equally. In my personal opinion wages should be based on how necessary to society they are. Essential workers would be paid vastly more while the vast quantity of bullshit jobs(read theory) would be paid the bullshit rates they deserve.
It’s good that rent was that low in the Soviet Union but you also have more needs than housing. Food comes to mind where many people starved due to collectivisation efforts in the Soviet Union at the start. I understand they rectified this later but it is probable that the early stages of a socialist society will have problems like this.
The region was prone to famines every 10 years for a thousand years. The soviets ended that permanently. Unfortunately mistakes were made with not having a secondary level of oversight, they over-trusted the reported numbers of grain given by the kulaks who were hording it for profit and it caused a famine that could have been avoided and later was once secondary checks were implemented.
Things are likely to get worse in the beginning - not better.
Things will get worse before the revolution, not after it. Revolutions do not happen without a cause. Things get considerably better after them. What you’re missing is that things are getting worse NOW, they have been getting worse since 2008, they are continuing to get worse, there is absolutely nothing on the horizon that will make them better. Things are going to get worse. We will continue down this path until the conditions get bad enough for things to get very interesting. We are working to build renters union orgs up like Acorn that we believe will be fundamental to the future resistance as renters will outnumber homeowners in the near future, on top of the usual trade unionism, and the other stuff you simply can’t discuss online.
And you’re completely delusional if you think that the existence of student loans makes university accessible. Many people can not afford living expenses to make it work without familial support, which I’m glad you had but it’s not what many people have. It’s privileged.
That’s hilarious because I have literally seen people do it. You’re the one who’s delusional. I know people who get less support from their rich family than they would have gotten from the government had their family been poor. It’s actually a problem with sliding scale student loans based on family income. What happens when you’re family can’t be assed supporting you?
Essential workers would be paid vastly more while the vast quantity of bullshit jobs(read theory) would be paid the bullshit rates they deserve.
So you actually want more income quality than I do by the sounds of it. Yet you call my ideas far-right? You’re supposed to get rid of bullshit jobs entirely in a revolution. So that’s not even a consideration. Besides that I think paying people who are educated or do more physical work or more dangerous work is reasonable. Getting a degree is worse than free labour; you pay them to do work! That work is repaid later by higher wages. Even making University free wouldn’t be enough as you still are putting in labour during you’re time and university and not earning any money for that time.
I really don’t want you anywhere near the leadership of a revolution. I think you’ve managed to clarify for me why I dislike Marxist-Leninists. You don’t actually think about anybody outside of the poorest in society and have no grasp on real life.
So you actually want more income quality than I do by the sounds of it. Yet you call my ideas far-right? You’re supposed to get rid of bullshit jobs entirely in a revolution. So that’s not even a consideration.
This is not scientific, this is utopian. Creating socialism isn’t a magic button we press, it is a process of development. You don’t have the proletariat take over control of the state and then magically press a button that makes everything bad go away and reorganise the country along perfect socialist lines. A process of building the productive forces is necessary while fitting in with the global system to avoid isolation (like cuba, dprk, etc have been). They will get eventually eliminated but not immediately.
I really don’t want you anywhere near the leadership of a revolution. I think you’ve managed to clarify for me why I dislike Marxist-Leninists. You don’t actually think about anybody outside of the poorest in society and have no grasp on real life.
Because why? Because you don’t like being called out as the middle class utopian champagne socialist from a petite-bourgeois background that you are? As the larper that pretends to be socialist while consistently taking right wing anti-worker talking points? You’ve defended LOANS over providing free education for fuck’s sake. What exactly has been said here that makes you want me nowhere near anything? The fact that I oppose student loans, oppose poverty and oppose shit poverty wages that you’ve defended as being fine because “unskilled labour” ? Such horrific positions! Christ.
Everything you’re saying in argument with me is basically a tory talking point, which is entirely unsurprising for someone whose parents are landlord parasites. They’d be swimming to france post-revolution and saying the same shit about the new socialist briatin that the gusanos in florida currently say about Cuba.
Free education would be great. I am not saying I don’t want free education. All I actually did was challenge the notion that education is unattainable for the working class financially. Our student loan system in this country is much better than the system in the US which is downright predatory. Here even people from working class backgrounds can go to University provided they are smart enough. The vast majority of students loans in this country are never repaid in full or at all, it’s simply written off. Therefore it wouldn’t actually cost much more to give free tuition.
Something else you should probably understand is that almost all money is debt. Over 90% of it. The rich create a lot of their wealth this way. Student loans are another type of loan you can exploit to become richer in the long run. The difference is even poorer people can exploit this type of loan for their benefit rather than it being detrimental and predatory like payday loans or US student loans.
My parents don’t live in the UK anymore but I fully get what you are saying. They could indeed be called parasites and I have had a similar discussion with them about this. The thing you should probably understand though is they both came from poor single parent house holds where they struggled to afford proper food to eat (I remember my dad telling me about having blamonge on toast because they couldn’t afford anything else). Capitalism for all it’s flaws is a lot better in terms of social mobility than feudalism. Socialist models are actually worse in this department, though this need not be a bad thing if there is enough for everyone.
I don’t want anyone to have poverty wages. You on the other hand seem to want that when you talk about bullshit jobs and the people who work them. It’s not the people who work these jobs fault that those jobs exist. They go to work just like anybody else. I treat lesser skilled jobs better than you treat bullshit jobs, even though bullshit jobs aren’t the fault of people who work those jobs, wheras anybody can work to increase their skill level.
Edit: Also the middle class make up half or more of the working population according to some definitions. You’re saying that more than half workers shouldn’t be part of the socialist movement. Think about that before you answer.
Edit: Also the middle class make up half or more of the working population according to some definitions. You’re saying that more than half workers shouldn’t be part of the socialist movement. Think about that before you answer.
With the marxist definitions. Class is determined by your relationship to the mode of production, they are extremely specific because that is literally a requirement of doing anything scientific with them. A simple explanation is here: www.reddit.com/r/socialism/wiki/class/
I personally wrote the first iteration of that page when I was a moderator there.
Then why are you trying to call out “champagne socialists”? There are parts of the working class that have more than enough money to buy champagne and generally live a comfortable (or even affluent) lifestyle. There are even people who have made millions through labor alone, more rich than the petty-burgeoise. You’ve talked yourself into a contradiction.
I’ve also literally made the arguement that you are now making about working class not being how much you earn. I had to do this when someone tried to claim that programmers and police officers are not working class cause they earn too much. The difference is I don’t go around accusing people who work full time of being “champagne socialists” whatever that term means.
I called you a champagne socialist for being obviously full of shit, spending your time doing anti-communism with this “tankie” bollocks instead of actually trying to make the world better in any meaningful way. Not because some workers are high earners.
All this shit does is amount to actively punching left. All punching left does is move the political dial rightwards.
Mate your from a regime that failed every single time it was tried. You’re existence makes the whole cause look bad and is why the left has recruiting problems.
The best thing I could possibly do for socialism is get rid of Stalinists and Maoists. These leaders were about as bad as Churchil. There are plenty of anarchists that want rid of you too, who I am still considering joining. The anarchists were the ones that invented the term tankie to begin with!
Nobody will take the far-left seriously until we come up with something that isn’t Marxist-Leninism. Even Trotskists have some clue about this problem, and Trotsky was more radical than Stalin by some accounts.
Honestly I don’t know why I bother. As you have pointed out my parents are petty-burgeoise. I could probably become a petty-burgeoise or at least a high earning member of the proletariat if I put my mind to it. I have more chance of that happening than you guys actually causing a revolution and not have it collapse afterwards. I mean I already have a Master’s degree, it’s really not that difficult to move up in the world provided your not starving to begin with and you’re not an idiot.
You are demonstrating precisely why we say that class determines politics rather than anything else. You lean decidedly right, not left. Because of your class background.
I’m quite bored with this conversation. You will grow into a libdem or a tory. It is a waste of my time.
No. If you have to resort to that it shows you lost. How old even are you to be telling me to grow up? You’re edgy enough still to support a dictators that killed real leftists. That’s why everyone calls you tankies. You can’t deal with the fact that your leaders come from middle class backgrounds either.
I’ve actually had enough of this now. Thanks for reminding me why people hate tankies.
I’m close to twice your age. When you’ve actually joined a union, grown up and realised real life isn’t like this terminally online shit hit me up again.
I can’t believe you actually think bullshit jobs are the fault of the workers. The whole point of bullshit jobs is that they are created by the inefficiencies of capitalism - not workers.
Ah I see what you’re getting at now. The point is to move the workforce from these roles to roles that are actually useful to society. As I mentioned before this is a process of development, not a magic button. It is not something that you necessarily have to do to existing workers, instead you apply it to future iterations of those roles and simply phase out the old ones.
If you know which jobs are bullshit then you don’t need to lower wages, you just eliminate the roles or at least stop hiring new people for them. None of this argument makes sense. I think you wanted to punish workers that did something you didn’t like and then got called out on it.
Also changing wages to encourage people into certain jobs is a capitalist economic technique. My idea of paying people for harder work (physical or intellectual work) is much closer to the socialist statement of “to each according to their labour”. Studying is a form of labour performed for free or even at cost to the person doing the labour. Higher wages for the educated are partially there to reflect this.
You have to understand that under a Presidential system we do not have the political capability of forming a Marxist-Leninist or Anarchist party. We have two parties and the first-past-the-post system guarantees that only two parties will ever be politically relevant.
As a result, it is political poison for left-leaning folks to associate with Marxist-Leninists. That isn’t a popular political ideology here and we are not going to win elections with that label.
Bernie made some progress on that front, but in the USA our coalition calls themselves Progressives and shies away from the scary communist and ML labels. But the (few) people who would call themselves that are still in the tent, we just prefer that they not poison the messaging with unhelpful, unelectable rhetoric.
What are you on about there are multiple growing ML parties in the US. PSL does excellent work.
You’re obsessed with electoralism, you have no understanding that the goal of MLs has literally nothing to do with electoralism. You can not establish socialism by winning elections, it has not happened and it will never happen. The furthest left possible through electoralism is socdem shit and the american ruling class already proved they won’t even allow that anymore.
All you can think of is elections and whether it’s possible to win percentages. Your brain is goo. You’re completely stuck in the mindset of american civil religion, believing only in institutional paths for anything in everything. This is an uneducated mindset to politics. The biggest gains are always won in the streets. What’s wild about this is that americans have the civil rights movements and have watched lgbt people change things in the last 50 years entirely through actions in the streets and still have no idea what politics means outside of electoralism. It’s like a country of children.
Well that’s good news at least. Still dosen’t make sense why you would support a guy that killed Anarchist and Marxist comrades just because they disagreed with him
Not saying it makes sense, I don’t agree with some of them either, but most of them are a really great crowd, not to mention very well read/informed and educated… you basically can’t win in a debate with most of them.
Naw that was way sooner, over on the_donald. That subreddit also got banned at the same time as CTH but had been dead for months by that point because they all moved to [DONOTVISIT]thedonald . win(now a virus site) followed by patriots.win. It was basically their way of softening the CTH shit and trying to make it less of an obvious attack on the leftist (non liberal) spaces of reddit. Nobody fell for it.
If lemmy.world doesn’t block very shortly I will move to a different instance.
They won’t. At least not shortly because Threads doesn’t even support ActivityPub, yet, and they want to wait and see according to a post on Mastodon. 👋
I feel the same. Lemmy.world has demonstrated itself as a popular Lemmy instance, like a huge playground, but Facebook instances must be given the boot. I am okay with seeing myself out of here, if it does not happen. Being on lemmy.ml for years, I will have zero issues doing that.
The dictation software we have is pretty shitty though. It almost always needs proof-read, or re-dictated several times to get it right. At that point you may as well just send an audio clip.
Until the day that dictation software gets it 100% correct, it’s not going to be worth my time.
For now, the human on the other end will always have an easier time understand an audio clip than a machine, because human minds are more capable of using context and getting past regional accents.
I’ll read comments, but I would never listen to voice comments. Literally never. I’d spend an hour googling for context and solutions before I’d listen to a voice message in the code pages.
Voice is objectively the worst way to convey data via computer. It almost always wastes my time, is horrible to skim for relevant info, and for complex topics is an absolute nightmare.
Text is so, so much more efficient. I can’t imagine why anyone would want this. If it’s ever implemented, please don’t make it obvious. Nobody should be encouraged to inflict this on coworkers or future devs.
Most of the times I get a voice message it could be written in two sentences, but they still decide to make it a two minute voice message. Just a lot of useless stuff added for free
Sorry, hon. It’s hardwired into humans to add in code for “I am alive and not cackling mad or suicidal yet today” during “conversations.” It would probably be more effective at screening for bots than captcha, but not as good at training bots.
The dictation software we have is pretty shitty though.
As someone who used dictation software when said software needed to be trained first and also trained its users how to speak more clearly, it always amazes me when I hear people say things like this.
The problem is human speech is lazy and inaccurate. Half of the time I have to listen to a voice clip there are two or three words in the clip that are barely intelligible. If I don’t catch it by the third pass I stop and just guess by context. It is the same thing the AWESOME dictation software we have today does, but saves me the time and effort and gives the sender a chance to fix their own mumbles.
Of course, I’m one of those people whose voicemail message used to be, “Don’t leave me a message unless your call went straight to voicemail. I will see your missed call and call you back.”
Dude you’re not thinking about it the right way. We can define a new multi byte character set to help define mood (both speaker and listener), intention, irony, sarcasm, sincerity, bodily functions, and so on. This is a solvable problem.
I have literally given up friendships from people that wouldn’t stop sending me voice messages.
I accept it from family, kids, the elderly and such. I just can’t believe people want me to turn off my music and slowly listen to your shitty voice when I can easily multitask.
maybe this sucks of me but when people do this i just don’t bother listening. sorry you couldn’t be assed to send a fifteen second text, i def can’t be fucked to listen to a five minute ramble that’s mostly filler
Yes I am aware of the line “TRUMP BAD CRIMINAL!!!” so you guys cant see when malicious prosecution is happening. The facts are right in front of you, you can either follow your team to the countries destruction, or call out injustices. I already know you are going to just be a team player.
I suppose I might have used the word malicious wrongly because I am not a lawyer, but what i was referring to was all of the cases. I am in real estate and know the real estate one very well, and that is absolute bullshit, and he did nothing wrong. That is what I meant by the words malicous prosecution.
Is this not the point of a trial? To ascertain fact and adjudicate appropriately? Hell, this is explicitly the point of a grand jury, to determine if a trial is merited in the first place. And they’ve found, several times, that taking the charges to trial is justified. Not even that he’s guilty, but that it’s worth looking into.
Additionally, what facts am I missing? He wasn’t exactly subtle with seeking to commit crimes (“Only stupid people pay taxes” comes to mind as a softball, but the fact that he was never held to the emoluments clause also stands out. Plus all the fraud and rape). Where is the misunderstanding in all this? He was found to be a rapist by a judge. He was found to have committed fraud by a different judge.
The misunderstanding isn’t yours, it’s the general publics understanding of the legal system and it’s processes. Which has been misinformed by decades of American criminal dramas like Law and Order, CSI, and NCIS. No one in this thread will go to rich people court like Trump gets to, we all get regular court if we get the privileged right to a court date. So when misinformed Trump supporters hear the judge ruled from the bench they see an overreach. When Trump’s legal team presented such a bad defense and showed a complete disregard for the court and it’s ruling in their opinion it wasn’t his team who did a bad job, but a judge who never gave him a chance.
Actually, for the New York civil fraud suit, Trump forgot to ask for a jury trial. But the judge very much found him guilty. In the E Jean Carol case, he was found guilty by not cooperating with discovery, and the jury was pretty clear on the 92m damages.
Fair, I intended that more as an idiom really. I mean whether or not the punishment goes through. He’s so damned slippery I’m not taking anything as truth until the buildings have been seized/ he’s in jail.
The only things that the Biden administration has done that’s bad is genocide obviously, but a little genocide never hurt anybody… I guess you could try blaming him for inflation or gas prices, or the fallout of COVID-19, but that would be kind of dumb
You can, of course, say he hasn’t done enough, which wouldn’t be wrong, but the things he’s done have had a pretty positive effect on the country and have brought us at least a little closer to the left – even with an opposing congress. I can’t say I like how he treats, say, nationalism and the Middle East, but he’s at least somewhat redeemed himself from just being a “moderate Republican” I would say. At least his administration has brought in officials who are tougher on corporations, even if he’s still a corporate Democrat.
I don’t remember a time where kidnapping people and putting them into concentration camps away from their families made something not left, actually it seems pretty common in former and current communist countries lol…
but actually i meant “slightly more left” in the sense of economic-social matters, not… killing or kidnapping people matters. he has done quite a lot to improve social services and lessen the financial fuckedness of many government programs, for example.
I don’t remember a time where kidnapping people and putting them into concentration camps away from their families wasn’t left, actually it seems pretty common in former and current communist countries lol…
The funniest part of this shitty rhetoric is you thinking that former communist countries are left wing. No, when the US overthrows your left wing government and installs a right wing dictatorship/psuedodemocracy thats actually a right wing system now.
What an incredible admission to not knowing shit about dick and still being ignorant enough to think your opinion matters.
??? are you just resorting to bringing up completely unrelated shit to escape embarrassment? I imagined context could make it clear but mentioning “former communist countries” I was speaking of communist countries in history which formerly existed, but now no longer exist. If I meant countries which were communist but now aren’t, I would have specified “formerly communist countries”. Why would you even think it was implying that a country being communist in the past means it’s leftist in the present? How do you reason that?
Edit: lol apparently @cypherpunks or an admin is removing the replies because they speak of Lenin’s Gulags, dekulakization, and Mao’s Laogai. Funny what kind of comments get removed by .ml mods; apparently not comments trying to suddenly bring antisemitism into the conversation, and not comments pretending that saying sometimes in history leftist governments have interned kids means I must both be anti-leftist and making excuses for the US’ treatment of immigrants.
How do you, with a straight face, say “criticizing a communist leader/government means you hate jews”? You are simply resorting to making up “you’re an antisemite” out of thin air to invalidate others. I have literally not once mentioned judaism. I don’t even know if I’ve mentioned jews in my entire comment history before you randomly started blaming jews for alleged “anticommunism”.
You are using discrimination against jews as a tool to attempt silencing others. You accusing everyone else of being an “antisemite” is your way of avoiding your own responsibility and putting others in a box. Let me guess, you support the Israeli genocide of Palestinians and use “antisemite” to defend it too?
Are you not literally claiming that those nasty jews communists had a habit of kidnapping kids? Or are you going to plead ignorance about the connection between antisemitism and anticommunism?
Your literal words were
actually it seems pretty common in former and current communist countries lol…
Not, “it seems like it was pretty common in former communist countries”
Please, find me sources for these massive instances of child kidnapping.
Also, love it when liberals are like “oh, sure, we put kids in concentration camps, but so do socialist countries(unsourced)” aren’t y’all the kind to complain about “whatabaoutism”?
Could you give me a recent source about these kidnappings? And if it’s the unaccompanied immigrant children which haven’t been kidnapped, then please don’t even bother.
“The Supreme Court ordered Abbott to let Border Patrol remove the razor wire barriers. Instead—acting in defiance of the president, the Supreme Court, and federal authorities—Abbott installed more.” … Then some stuff about congress blocking decisions… dunno… Doesn’t sound like it’s all on Biden. Especially since, like most of the stuff that people are complaining about, it stated with Trump. And it’s been getting better just not fast enough. Which, again, not saying Biden is doing his best, but it doesn’t sound like it’s all his fault, does it?
Maybe I misunderstood but how is it Biden continuing doing it when they’re actively trying to improve the situation but congress is blocking change and even when they sued Texas and the supreme court ordered them to take down the fences they still put up more because of the gop scum governor? If after all that you still think it’s all Biden’s fault then whatever, one of us is wrong, neither will admit it, but at least those that read the comments can make up their own minds. Have a nice day.
Biden just visited the border with a Trump to talk about being tough on immigration.
Hell, he literally has executive authority over ICE, and yet ICE is still up to their gestapo bullshit.
I think Biden cares more about not letting states walk over his domain of power than he does about immigrants. This was a friendly with segregationists, still currently opposes right to abortion, fossil who is in the process of enabling genocide. I dont know why you’d think he gives 2 shits about treating immigrants like the human beings they are and not as vermin.
Palestinians are literally starving to death because this administration gave your tax dollars to the AMIC to arm Israel for a genocide. The entire world sees what we’re doing and abhors it. I don’t pretend it would be somehow better under Trump, but this is not good by any definition.
Do you have any particular policies or are you just going to make claims? Trump’s policies were not good for the American working class, which is the vast majority of Americans.
His landmark legislation, the 2017 tax cuts, gave temporary marginal cuts to working people while giving substantial permanent cuts to corporations. He promised to fix healthcare. He didn’t. He promised to stop jobs from going overseas. He didn’t and, in fact, more jobs went overseas under him than Obama. He promised to fix the national debt. He increased it. He made a terrible deal with OPEC to cut oil production, which led to short term gains but eventually caused oil prices to skyrocket when economies recovered from Covid. His trade war with China hurt the US economy (for example, farmers who he had to bail out).
These are just some examples. There are many Biden policies that I am against but if you’re going to claim this admin has been worse for Americans than Trump’s admin, you need to provide examples.
I never said I like trump or all the things he did, but I do think its obvious he was/is better. Most presidents make lots of promises they intentioanlly or unintentionally dont follow through with. I can see you disagree with many of his policies, that is completely fair. But lets discuss what was wrong with Biden.
Without looking at policies I dont like here are the things off the top of my head that are/were objective failures. Afghanistan withdrawl was one of the worst failures n american history; people were hoarding baby food due to handling of that issue, the illegal migration issue that is currently happening that were directly due to his repealing of trump rules, insane spending that exasperates the inflation issue. This doesnt even get into the foolish policies that we could argue about, but are failures.
Yeah, a slow decline of the US empire is preferable for the third world, China, and Russia than to have to deal with Trump’s weird international politics. With Joe you get a predictable further collapse of US power.
It’s not a perfect take, but I’ve seen so many takes insanely worse than this one that I am genuinely unsure what evoked such a strong reaction to it. (Particularly since you provided no explanation.)
Most USians don’t like being reminded that the empire they live in and have internalized belonging to is in terminal decline, and the options are a drawn out slow collapse and a “really flinging shit around” collapse
Sorry, do you prefer the US to collapse in, idk, a flurry of proxy wars with the potential for the use of nuclear weapons? I much prefer the slow decline with limited proxy wars.
yea but unless you think you can convince half the population to chop every billionaire’s head off we’ll just have to deal with it until we die of climate change
Yeah dude, let me just dismantle America rn. In the meantime, fuck anyone on the Republican shit list. They should of focused on dismantling america rather than transing their genders or whatever. Don’t worry, after this revolution I’m gonna do they totally will be accepted and not targeted. But until then, doing minor actions that in no way hinder the progress towards dismantling america but do make the life’s of queer folk maybe less concentration campy is pointless because thats only 1% less Hitler to me, and why would I care about that? A worthy sacrifice. I mean if I took the day to go vote, my whole socialist output, organizing and networking collapses! They are a sacrifice that I am willing to make. Thank you for opening my eyes.
Dawg have you met communists??? A large portion of us are queer, i’m queer. Are you suggesting that i should vote for genocide Joe out of fear of being persecuted? I can accomplish a lot through literally every political avenue other than voting
maybe federally. Maybe. They definitely wouldn’t do anything to stop red states from implementing hurtful anti trans laws.
That is simply a possibility however. But we are in the now, with a Democrat controlling the executive branch. what are Democrats doing with their executive power to stop Republicans in red states from doing whatever they want?
If youre having a hard time coming up with anything, don’t worry, so are we.
Is Biden doing anything now? Trans people are hiring now. How can you tell them “well it won’t be better, but it could be way worse” and feel good about what that means to them?
Because that’s fucking reality right now. We are living in a hellscape and I’d like to at the very least slow down the fucking. 4 years later is 4 more years to do something. Even if it doesn’t fix the problem, it’s at least slower, less severe. And not voting isn’t going to change that. It does nothing. It makes no statement, it makes no progress. You feel better not voting for Joe? Cool, so happy for you. Meanwhile Trump wins and someone’s life gets worse than it would have. It’s a shitty choice but that’s the reality. So unless you wanna pick up a gun and start taking shots at the expense of your own life, take the 5 seconds to do the smallest act of kindness you have with this impossible choice
Even if it doesn’t fix the problem, it’s at least slower, less severe. And not voting isn’t going to change that. It does nothing. It makes no statement, it makes no progress. You feel better not voting for Joe? Cool, so happy for you.
Ok, first, it is only less severe than something in our heads. Dems aren’t slowing anything. Second: yo, what is this? Who said i wasn’t voting? What’s this attitude youre sending?
If I’ve done something to raise your ire im prepared to apologize, but if not maybe think about how you present yourself
Your right. Re-reading I was heated from other discussions and came into your reply tainted by them. I apologize and agree with you. It just sucks and makes me emotional seeing people be willing to sacrifice others for nothing. You did nothing wrong. I’m sorry.
I’d still vote for mitt Romney in that scenario. Do you not get that voting doesn’t prevent you from doing anything? You not voting doesn’t stop it from effecting your life. The best you can do in that scenario is to pick the not worse option. It doesn’t feel gr8 to make this choice. It sucks ass that we have to make it, but you do nothing by not making it. You just allow the depression of the reality of the world get you to throw your hands up in frustration.
Voting doesn’t stop you from participating in direct action
It doesn’t legitimize the system, that’s already done. You and I and all of us can’t touch that. It will run off as little votes as it needs to.
I get your frustration. It fucking sucks, but just like you pay your taxes, slave for your boss and make the ruling class money just to stay alive yourself, this is no different. Swallow your pride and try to make someone’s life a little better than it’d be otherwise. Because someone’s life depends on it. Care about the people who’d be hurt quicker.
Care about the people who would suffer under the worse option. Care that you can in a very small way give human beings a little more time. If I had to go to the booth and vote on 4 years of Holocaust or 6 I’d vote 4. It’s cruel to do otherwise in the face of an Impossible decision.
Do you actually care about queer people? Because it is obvious that the democrats as a national party will do nothing to protect us, let alone build bulwarks against the next time Republicans take power nationally.
“Vote to get sent to a camp four years later” is what I hear the democrats trying to sell. Sorry but that isn’t a very compelling sales pitch, because you’re out here admitting “we are going to kill you”
Backing up your point. Biden just agreed to ban the flying of pride flags at international embassays in order to get a budget passed. Democrats will happily sell out their voters once in office in the effort to be “bipartisan”. forbes.com/…/white-house-agrees-to-ban-pride-flag…
I lost my reproductive rights under Biden and a democratic house and senate. They did nothing to save Roe other than howl at the moon and write strongly worded letters.
Fuck both parties. Fuck electorial politics. We COULD elect a green party president but people like you swallow the party line and spend your time yelling at us to vote for your shit candidates who don’t want to work for us instead of actually working to put people in power who want to protect AND expand rights.
I’ve been in this game a long ass time. The two party system will lead us to fascism eventually. The only way to win is to refuse to play their game.
Roe getting gutted was the result of conservative judges that got appointed to the supreme court and the states that have taken further steps to restrict are republican run states. The majority that the Dems had was very slim not enough to get a lot passed especially when the “majority” included “moderates” like Manchin and Sinema.
I agree the Dems and libs suck. If they werent so smugly sure that clinton would win 2016 they would have not played politics and forced in their supreme court pick and we would have less of a minority.
Roe getting gutted is the result of a decades long plan by the republican party and letting them them win a majority again will only make things worse.
And yet Biden refused to stack the court when he had the power too. And his party refused to codify roe into law since the supreme court decided the case in the 70’s. Obama even ran on codification in his first campaign and started out with a super majority.
It’s the fault of republican assholery and democratic lazyness.
And what does voting do to hinder those things? We both communists but you act like if you vote everything you else do doesn’t matter. You act like if you dare vote in favor of any kind of harm reduction that you somehow ain’t a communist or you somehow are contributing. That’s not how that works. One of these two options will happen. The least you can do is take half a second to pick the one that will kill less people in the meantime while we keep working.
If your complaint is that “I don’t wanna contribute to the system” then the fuck are you doing here? Go to the woods and punch trees like the libertarians. You live and participate in capitalism weather you like it or not, and in the meantime you play games, watch movies and pay rent. You already prop up genocide Joe with your taxes I’m sure you pay. Drawing the line at voting is just silly
I won’t take a second to vote for him in part because it makes me stomach churn but also because without the threat of losing voters democrats literally have no incentive to impliment leftist policies. As a communist i’d expect you to be aware of that? I’m not a reformist and I don’t believe that socialism can be voted into existence but I definitely see how voting blue no matter who is incredibly short sighted.
Why should our “left” political party do anything that benefits the proletariat if they will still be voted into office if they don’t. Ultimately the democratic party is a bourgeoisie organization that serves its own interests which directly conflict with the interests of the prole. They will not offer us the slightest concession if they do not stand to lose something by not doing so.
Because the other option is more people suffer and I am not an accelerationist willing to hold my comrades lives hostage to prove a point to liberals. There are other means and methods. We can’t vote socialism in but that doesn’t mean we ignore it. It serves another purpose if not the one you want it to.
Wow. The blue no matter who liberals are downvoting a queer person now. It’s almost like they don’t give a shit about your needs as a person and only want to campaign on an abstract that is LGBTQ rights.
If Joe Biden wants me to vote for him, maybe he should use his executive powers to help my trans comrades facing persecution in red states
Liberals act like democrats are the only thing standing between us and Republicans, and that if Republicans win it’ll be the end of the world, so why aren’t they out there standing between? Why aren’t they willing to actually use force against the fascists?
If democrats think Trump is literally Hitler, the jackass obviously stole nuclear secrets, put him on trial and execute him for treason when he is found guilty.
But the democrats obviously won’t do this. Because they’re not on your side. They’re the good cop to the republican bad cop.
I think a lot of the blue no matter who types are following the dem line. You can’t attack Biden, sure. But the point they argue is always pushing ones mind towards the two party system. They don’t want people to even start thinking about talking about 3rd party. Cuz the Democrat’s (the party, not the voters) only platform is being better than Republicans and voting for a third party would ruin their whole thing.
It’s working too. I had forgotten there even was a green party lol and they’ve been around since before i could vote.
I dont even think it is about 3rd party stuff, I think it is about
“The facade of democracy gives us legitimacy, come on folks just participate in our democracy! Don’t think about how the system could be otherwise changed!”
Yeah… actually. I know, craziness. But its true. Everyone drinks from the wrong cup of kool aid at the party eventually. We need to have empathy and sympathy for those led astray.
That was answering the first question, anyway. For the second, id say a resound, “fuck no!” but that unfortunately doesnt negate the answer to the first question :(
Israel wouldn’t be able to exist without the sponsorship of the US, that’s where it gets most of its shit from. Also wow, almost all those countries are subordinates to the US. How coincidental.
Yes, Israel shouldn’t be allowed to exist. Israel is an affront to and attack on all Jews, perpetrated by Christian zionists, including Nazi Germany.
There should be a secular democracy without a tiered citizenship system that respects the rights of local jews, Muslims, and Christians, as much as it respects the rights of European immigrants.
None because what you are talking about doesn’t exist. There was no ceasefire resolution only an American endorsement for israel to use starvation as a weapon of war.
Here is the text of the tweet and the text of the tweet quoted in it:
A draft that does not demand an immediate ceasefire, but instead suggests one might be negotiated if certain conditions are met, and that genocidal attacks can otherwise continue, is not a ceasefire resolution. It is a ransom note.
It quotes the following by Al Jazeera English:
The US has drafted a new UN Security Council resolution that appears to support a ceasefire in Gaza, after blocking several other attempts at achieving a truce. Al Jazeera’s @baysontheroad looks at what the new US document says.
The quoted aje tweet is in reference to this video and the video is embedded in the tweet.
E: what do you do when you don’t have someone around to copy and paste shit from twitter? It seems absurd to block twitter but not have any way of accessing information that’s distributed on that website…
Joe Biden, who is the President of a country that has been trying to negotiate a cease fire, and is sending aid to Gaza is responsible for the actions of a completely separate and sovereign nation?
hitler could never imagine having the power of the presidency under pax americana, but he would have loved to translate the “racial jungle” speech. the supreme irony of biden’s dog literally attacking federal law enforcement while people are in prison for the same thing is palpable. kids in cages, building a border wall, and supplying arms to the middle east to prop up an ethnostate. look… how much hitler are you willing to tolerate?
He’s a far cry from it for certain, but he shares a considerable amount of responsibility for what is occurring in Gaza that a lot of people feel uncomfortable with that.
I’m sure some people have already forgotten because China and Russia recently vetoed the last conflict resolution proposed in the U.N. but don’t let that stop you from remembering that our U.N. ambassador, appointed by the President who can revoke that appointment, issued multiple vetoes against multiple Gaza conflict resolution proposals previously.
It’s not an accident that people suddenly care so much about US foreign policy when it’s convenient to bash Biden before an election. It’s a very concerted propaganda effort on social media that you’re either intentionally or unintentionally a part of.
Before the last election Trump tried to extort Ukraine by withholding military aid unless Ukraine helped investigate his political opponent, Biden.
I don’t agree with what’s happening in Israel/Palestine either, but I’m more concerned at how often it’s being used as this “trump card” to lower Biden to Trump’s level. It’s still not remotely close.
I really dislike how this always comes down to whataboutism.
I already consider Biden to be the lesser of the two evils here. That doesn’t mean I have to look away from his actions though, nor does it mean I have to support them.
The Gaza example was already whataboutism. I only bring up the Trump example to emphasize that we already have historical evidence that he won’t handle Ukraine or Gaza any better than Biden has. He only uses those situations to benefit himself.
I agree that being the lesser of two evils doesn’t absolve Biden’s part in it, but I hope you reconsider supporting him. As frustrating as it is that neither is perfect, it doesn’t help anyone to allow an even worse candidate to win in protest.
How was it whataboutism? I didn’t see anyone comparing him to Trump when I was replying. Hitler is absolutely not the any kind of standard that we should be comparing most politicians to hopefully. I’m also painfully aware that Trump is far worse in regards to foreign policy. I can imagine him offering further support to Israel even.
Look. I’ve already resolved to vote for Biden. There really isn’t much choice, but that doesn’t mean I have to ignore what he’s responsible for. Nor should history forget it either. If that somehow hinders his campaign, then so be it. Anyone who votes for Biden without these considerations is an accessory to the genocide though.
You can have genocide in Gaza, or you can have genocide in Gaza and (“stepping-stone”) Ukraine. Its an unfortunate choice, but an important one nonetheless. If im harping on a moot point to you bc you already know this, rest assured i say this for all other readers as well. Your votes down ballot are also extremely valuable. This primary there was a referendum in my county that I was in favor of that passed by less than 100 votes.
I don’t agree with what’s happening in Israel/Palestine either, but I’m more concerned at how often it’s being used as this “trump card” to lower Biden to Trump’s level. It’s still not remotely close.
There probably isn’t a single politician that I fully agree with.
There are different levels of disagreement and what I’m pointing out is people trying to use Gaza as a way to fully discredit Biden as a candidate because they have no other scandals to use against him.
No, I’m more concerned with how the entire world will be impacted by electing Trump again. What’s happening in Gaza will continue to happen whether we elect Biden or Trump.
“You’ve got to finish the problem,” Trump said on Fox News on Tuesday when asked about the war. “You had a horrible invasion that took place that would have never happened if I was president.”
He said on Oct. 11 that a future Trump administration would “fully support Israel defeating, dismantling, and permanently destroying the terrorist group Hamas,”
That month, his campaign also said that, if elected again, he would bar Gaza residents from entering the U.S. as part of an expanded travel ban.
Suggesting that the Gaza situation is a dealbreaker for Biden is trying to hold him to a higher standard than anyone holds Trump, and that higher standard by itself tells you who the better candidate is.
Every president since Eisenhower shares responsibility for what is happening in Gaza, but that doesn’t mean we vote for the end of democracy in the US.
Biden calls for ceasefire while still supplying Israel = bad
Trump says Israel would finish the job under his administration = magnitudes worse, the fucker is a few syllables away from literally saying final solution
Yes, but wisely by evolving beyond it, not by trying to fight a Goliath directly in their strongest areas. We’re smart, we should be able to come up with real solutions.
Here’s weird thought experiment
Think of our current government as scaffolding that we’re all standing on 100 floors high, that is right on top of a slave/homeless/refugee camp/zoo (i.e. vulnerable populations). This scaffolding must be replaced because it’s made out of rotting wood without sending us all crashing down on the camp and zoo killing billions of people and animals.
How do we do it?
The right wing position is to tear down the scaffolding by getting positions in site management and ordering replacing the rotting wood with broken plastic while kicking everyone they don’t like, sometimes pushing them off the scaffolding. Of course, they don’t care about any what the scaffolding is holding up or what’s below, they just realized they can use this scaffold system to gain power and money.
The tankie position is to get your rotten wood hating friends together with their hammers and torches and start bashing. I guess they are either 1) seemingly unaware this will cause us all to fall, or 2) remember when it worked 100 years ago with the scaffolding was only 1 floor high and only a few people underneath and think it will be the same this time, or 3) are effectively right wingers on a different team in that they don’t care about collateral damage as long as their team can rise from the ashes into power.
The liberal position is to put some polish on the wood and some rainbow and recycling stickers on some poles and send a few TV dinners below while we dump our trash down there and not admit that there are slaves down there making our stuff. The long-term problem of scaffold failure is talked about at various conferences and people donate millions to the “Replace the Rot” foundation.
I say the best way to go about it is to replace it part by part as it stands. Depend less and less on the bits of rotting wood and more on the strong sustainable replacements we build. Don’t replace the very high bits that were built for ego by weak men, instead lift those underneath up onto the strong bits of the scaffold. Eventually we might realize that all that’s left of the old rotting scaffold is that weak bit holding on at the end, might as well lop that off now that it’s not critical to our survival anymore.
Now imagine we have an election between two site managers. Neither of them has any real plans to replace this scaffolding, in fact both have plans to expand it. Both candidates support the genocide in the neighboring scaffold.
Primary differences between candidates
Candidate #1 is going to criminalize talking about the scaffolding, ban encryption to ensure you don’t talk about it, and start a new program to push more people off the scaffold.
Candidate #2 is going to do too little too late when it comes to truly solving the rotting scaffold problem or stopping people from falling off the scaffold.
Now ask yourself, under which candidate can I do more to solve the rotting scaffold problem directly? Under which candidate can I do my little part to solve the problem without falling or being pushed off the scaffold or being arrested? Under which candidate are fewer people going to be pushed off while me and my team go about fixing the scaffold ourselves because the leaders are unwilling or unable?
Voting is not about putting your support behind a candidate or identifying with them, it’s a strategic decision taken to advance your goals.
I suppose I should’ve said it shouldn’t be, people can and do of course think all kinds of silly and illogical things. It’s a poor strategic choice at the individual and group level to identify with a candidate but to each their own. Propaganda gets us all.
, it’s a strategic decision taken to advance your goals.
this part also assumed universal goals. one of my goals is to smash capital and the state. the democrat party will most definitely be part of that. voting for them doesn’t advance my goals.
I have read some, but I don’t need to read deep republican theory to see why their ideas are fundamentally wrong any more than I need to “read theory” to see fundamental issues with “Marxist” positions.
I’ve read “On Authority” and see it’s obvious flaws.
I mean, you obviously have not read enough if you think MLs are “burn it all down, don’t worry about the consequences” you understand Republicans because you’ve been exposed to them throughout your life, how many times have you had a long conversation with a communist?
I am not surprised someone linked you to “on authority” but reading a brief retort to anarchists is not the same as understanding dialectical materialism, scientific socialism, the business cycle, the tendency or rate of profit to fall, uneven development theory, marxist feminism, marxist anticolonialism, proletarian democracy, prefigurative politics, etc
Why do you assume I don’t know these ideas just because I don’t agree with you? I am familiar with all of that, maybe not at your level, but enough to know I disagree fundamentally with the methods even if our compassion may be in common. I’ve talked with enough tankies that “burning it all down” is an apt enough description. War tends to do that.
There is nothing I could read that would convince me that massive authoritarian power structures put in place by war are the way to a stable sustainable peaceful future, the same way nothing I could read would make me believe in santa claus.
Why do you assume I don’t know these ideas just because I don’t agree with you?
Because you straight up said you’ve avoided looking into it in detail, your previous words:
I have read some, but I don’t need to read deep republican theory to see why their ideas are fundamentally wrong any more than I need to “read theory” to see fundamental issues with “Marxist” positions.
Also because from what I’ve read, you take a fundamentally reformist position which Marx painstakingly disproved the viability of over 150 years ago. If you’ve read capital to completion, or hell, just understood some of their short texts very well and extrapolated things yourself, you’d know a reformist position is unviable, and even if it were viable, would be magnitudes more violent than the worst mistakes and excesses of any ML movement.
I disagree fundamentally with the methods even if our compassion may be in common.
What methods do you disagree were inappropriate for the situations they occurred in? Because marxist leninists will probably agree that there was a mistake there to learn from, or will point out factors that might you might be uniformed or misinformed about.
I looked into it in detail enough to know what I need to know. I also didn’t read Mein Kampf, should I read that before deciding I don’t agree with fascism or is it enough to know that fascism fundamentally harms people and it doesn’t matter what Mein Kampf says?
… reformist position Marx painstakingly disproved the viability of over 150 years ago
Disproved to you maybe, these are not facts. The bible proves things to Christians, they are wrong too.
I looked into it in detail enough to know what I need to know. I also didn’t read Mein Kampf, should I read that before deciding I don’t agree with fascism or is it enough to know that fascism fundamentally harms people and it doesn’t matter what Mein Kampf says?
Wait, you don’t want to understand the ideology that saved the world from German fascism, the ideology that supported and enabled liberation movements worldwide, the ideology that took Russia from a feudal backwater to space in 40 years, that advanced woman’s rights in that time frame past women’s rights in modern western countries? Why don’t you want to understand the ideology of the most lgbt friendly government in the world, Cuba? Why don’t you want to understand the ideology of countries that were historically much less violent than bourgeois ‘democracies’?
Disproved to you maybe, these are not facts. The bible proves things to Christians, they are wrong too.
This is a flawed analogy because the Bible expects you to take things on faith, and Marx expects to have to thoroughly defend his position as it is a position contrary to the interests of capital. i love how you’re arguing “well I’m not convinced” while refusing to even engage with basic ideas.
Some real taught to be afraid of shadows shit if you ask me.
Oh my sweet uninformed reformest, my undying love 😘
Sorry i shouldn’t be too sarcastic, but really you’re so close. I’ve been where you are. If you’re interest in learning why I changed my views I’d recommend reading Reform or Revolution by Rosa Luxembourg. In short, while unions, reformists, and the expansion of social democracy are important to the development of clsss consciousess, they alone cannot create a socialist society. Revolution is required.
Who said I want a socialist society? I’m an anarcho-communist, I have never seen positions of authority, left or right, not abuse the position. A society that can function without some subset claiming authority and using violence to coerce others to gain and maintain power is what we should be striving for.
Ancom fits yeah, and i dont entirely disagree with you. I just dont see how that can be accomplished without revolution. Those in power don’t typically give up that power without violence. I don’t see how infiltrating a system run by and for the ruling class, designed specifically to benefit them, and attempting to make it better is supposed to work. The ruling class could just get rid of you no?
I think I wasn’t clear in my language as multiple people didn’t get what I was intending to say. When I talked of replacing rotting wood part by part but not the high parts, depending less on the rotting parts and lifting people onto the strong parts of the scaffold I wasn’t talking about getting better people into office (though that can be part of making your job as a leftist easier and safer). I was talking about dual power and degrowth.
I think it’s not radical communist to take a position that would likely lead to billions of people of dying from famine and lack of medicine etc only to put your favorite authoritarian into power to become corrupted itself over the following decades. All positions of power become corrupted, no exceptions. We need to move towards degrowth and decentralization of everything, especially power.
The only reason 8 billion + people can live on this planet is because of the Green Revolution, i.e. nitrogen that comes from our oil industry. If we actually had the kind of revolution that could lead to a socialist system the delicate supply chains of oil and food globally would almost certainly be interrupted. This could lead to crop failures and famine, massive inflation and probably end up in more places going fascist than moving left. Unless you can teach enough people about socialism before the revolution, they’re going to look for safety and find a false sense of it in fascist authoritarians.
Remember, the revolutions of the early 20th were before the Green Revolution, there were 2 billion people on the planet and a much larger percentage than today knew how to support themselves by growing food and hunting, protect themselves etc. Today a revolution like that would look more like Gaza is looking right now with an entire population on the brink of starving to death.
If we actually want a better future, we need to build it, and not wait to start building until after some revolution that might never come. What does that look like? It looks like communities growing food together, protecting themselves without police, dropping out of popular culture, changing culture to not value what capitalists are selling us. We need cultural evolution, not war.
A reformist Anarchist? I have legitimately never heard of that kind of combination, lmao. You cannot achieve an ancom society via reform, that’s utter utopianism. Anarcho-communism can only be achieved via revolution, and not even the whole pitchforks and torches kind.
Check Anarcho-Syndicalism if you want an actual, practical plan for achieving an Anarchist society, or read modern AnCom theory.
If these ideas are the only workable ideas, why have they failed for the last century?
We need new ideas that are built on the understanding of our current world. Even places where “leftists” got to power they just turned into capitalist dictatorships or cruel experiments in how far propaganda can be pushed and how much populations can endure suffering and helplessness.
You’re believing in silliness if you think violent revolution in 2024 will end up in anything but massive death and fascism. We don’t have the numbers to win, all we’d end up doing is scaring voters into putting people into power that will put you in prison and become dictators.
I guess we have a different definition of failure, at least when it comes to “socialist” states like China, Russia, and N. Korea.
Anarcho-syndicalism has some good things going for it, it could be part of a solution. I don’t know why everyone assumes I am naive to all these ideas, I just don’t fit in the little leftist boxes people made for us last century that the right already has formulas to defeat.
I suppose, these words are so nebulous. I understand socialism as needing a state and (real, not authoritarian) communism as being incompatible with a state.
Then you understand it wrong. Communism is socialism by definition. Maybe try actually looking up the definition of socialism that marxists and anarchists actually use. It’s a broad term but not a nebulous one as it has a concrete definition: a society where the working class own/control the means of production.
Here in Australia we have preferential voting which is much better, but Biden and Trump are not the same.
Honestly, this is just the current strategy that right wingers seem to have switched to
Trump is a total psychopath who only cares about himself. He’s a criminal. The fact they’re trying hard to indict Biden, have for months but have found nothing should be a strong indicator he’s not (his son might be, but that has nothing to do with Biden, since unlike Trump’s kids, he wasn’t part of government).
Trump made it clear he would cause a insurrection months before it happened, and now he’s backed into a corner, what do you think will happen if he becomes president? He’s made it clear that he will act like a dictator
Seriously, if you guys vote Trump, it will f*** everyone. They’re not the same
Hunter did nothing worse than what the children of most politicians have done. Hell, Joe Manchin’s daughter is the reason epipens cost $500 each. Why isn’t she being investigated?
Because the charges are bullshit and Manchin votes with republicans.
lemmy.ml
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