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FRAnkly ,

Nazi is a communist term for delegitimizing a legitimate sovereign nation. Cope with it. Churchill said so.

Tristaniopsis ,

Lemmy.ml should be sent to purgatory.

ryannathans ,

452 (and counting) defederates

Rockyrikoko ,

I just block users or communities if they become problematic. I enjoy being exposed to different opinions but I’m not interested in childish BS or low effort, intentionally contrarian posts

CapitanStrider ,

Isn’t dbzer0 defederated from a bunch? That kinda sucks.

aaaaaaadjsf ,
@aaaaaaadjsf@hexbear.net avatar

The funniest part is when two instances federate, but the userbases of both instances want to defederate with each other immediately afterwards lol.

HumanBehaviorByBjork ,
@HumanBehaviorByBjork@hexbear.net avatar

personally i want to kiss the liberals with tongue, while they call me a tankie

Aabbcc ,

I want to smooch every person who calls me a liberal

pleasemakesense ,
@pleasemakesense@lemmy.world avatar

you are completely free to discuss with tankies all you want, even if instances defederate (for example, you could make an account on their instance)

doesntmatter ,

i already understand them and i dont give a fuck about discussing in an online forum

frosch ,

Commienazi troll instances (hexbear, lemmygrad) should be blocked by the default. Their users are unhinged and spend time harassing people.

aaaaaaadjsf ,
@aaaaaaadjsf@hexbear.net avatar

What is Nazi about hexbear? Seriously just making up stuff now

frosch ,

I said commienazi, hexbear falls under the commie part. You’re just too annoying. You don’t have an off switch, you declared yourself the Lemmy speech police. You’re the loser nerd hall monitor type. You’re also fragile and can’t bear any disagreement. It’s like, a person disagrees on a leftist issue like do non binary genders exist (a matter of sociological theory) and should underaged people be given puberty blockers (a matter so controversial some countries are reviewing the practice) you’ll swoop in and declare them Nazis who need to die immediately.

This is why there are many who think your entire instance is an elaborate troll run from some bizarre Discord server, you all fit the annoying blue-haired leftist stereotype too exactly.

aaaaaaadjsf , (edited )
@aaaaaaadjsf@hexbear.net avatar

It’s like, a person disagrees on a leftist issue like do non binary genders exist (a matter of sociological theory)

Go ahead and tell all the non binary people that they actually don’t exist, it’s just all sociological. Is this the new “it’s all in your head” stuff they used to tell gay kids back in the day?

Not even going to get started on the transphobia in your comment, trans kids shouldn’t get the medical treatment now because some countries are banning it. Great logic, it’s not like countries have ever prescribed incorrect medical treatment to LGBT people before. Alan Turing? Who’s that again?

What the hell is wrong with artificial hair colours? I’d never dye my hair an unnatural colour myself, but it’s a cool look on some people. What is the “blue haired leftist stereotype?” Is it some right wing American meme?

frosch ,

Of course it’s all sociopsychological. It’s an identity. Like nationality and ethnicity it’s a matter of social practice, not biology or genetics. As such it’s very much in the realm of things which are debatable. Are are you claiming otherwise?

aaaaaaadjsf ,
@aaaaaaadjsf@hexbear.net avatar

And? How does that make non-binary gender any less real? Which is what you implied with your original comment, by asking if it exists or not.

Many things are matters of social practice, doesn’t make them any less real.

frosch ,

It’s real insofar as there are people who subscribe to the idea and practice it. In the same way that Christianity or Wicca are real. The debate isn’t about this.

But because it is real in this way, it’s also real that there are people who don’t believe than one can be non-binary. There is more than one schema for gender currently in Western society, and these schemas are in competition for instance the traditional binary vs various different non-binary conceptions vs so-called “truscum” vs xenogender…

We know that gender itself as a matter of social practice (the work of second-wave feminists proves this definitively) so therefore all gender schemas are subject to social debate.

Expect, and this is where the crux is, that some (but not all) trans and non-binary activists are now claiming that gender identity is innate (while gender remains a social construct) and that in fact it is sex which is arbitrary and that in fact it takes a whole team of medical personnel to ascertain sex (the so-called “assigned at birth” model).

The broader point I am making is that because current Western gender schemas are in such flux, you can’t simply say that someone is Nazi just because they subscribe to a different schema than you do.

ToxicDivinity ,
@ToxicDivinity@hexbear.net avatar

In the same way that Christianity or Wicca are real

it’s also real that there are people who don’t believe than one can be non-binary

So if someone holds the view that they don’t believe it’s possible for a person to be a Christian even though there’s millions of people that call themselves Christian do you think that means the question of whether or not there are people that are Christian is up for debate? That’s insane.

HumanBehaviorByBjork ,
@HumanBehaviorByBjork@hexbear.net avatar

The debate isn’t about this.

You’re right. It’s about whether nonbinary people and trans people in general deserve rights and social validation. Which they do. End of discussion.

Zuzak , (edited )

:::spoiler Personally, I’m of the opinion that men don’t exist. All “men” are just NBs doing it for attention.

(apologies to trans men for this bit)

Adkml ,

Boy calling us nazis to saying non binary people just have a mental illness in one fucking comment.

You libs really fucking love telling on yourself.

frosch ,

Never said that non binary people are mentally ill. But this kind of uncharitable reading is common with your hexbear assholes and reason enough for the rest of Lemmy to defederate from you.

Also, oh no – I’m a “lib.” So I’m the same thing that 99.99999999% of Western people are. How horrible, how damning, however shall I live with myself now that some shut-in 22-year-old called me a lib. Get a grip.

ToxicDivinity ,
@ToxicDivinity@hexbear.net avatar

But this kind of uncharitable reading is common with your hexbear assholes

some shut-in 22-year-old called me a lib

Commienazi troll instances (hexbear, lemmygrad)

You literally called us Nazis in your top level comment you fucking moron.

krolden ,
@krolden@lemmy.ml avatar

Citation needed

ShimmeringKoi ,
@ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net avatar

you all fit the annoying blue-haired leftist stereotype too exactly

I didn’t realize we’d gone through a time portal to 2015 lmao

Although I suppose that’s less important right now than all the beeping coming from this when you talk about nonbinary people hitler-detector

frosch ,

Way to prove my point. Yes, you found me out I am a huge Nazi. Now what? What exactly will you do?

hackris ,

He literally baited you to respond exactly as you did. While I’m not a communist, that was smart and you are dumb to not have seen that…

frosch ,

But I am a Nazi, here I am at my computer just Nazying away.

Zuzak ,

Yeah, they really showed that we will call someone a Nazi after they come out of the gate equating us to Nazis and then start saying transphobic shit and going off about blue-haired SJWs, we’re so owned by this, somehow.

ToxicDivinity ,
@ToxicDivinity@hexbear.net avatar

Hopefully defed from your instance

radiofreeval ,
@radiofreeval@hexbear.net avatar

From zero to transphobia in two posts! This looks like a new world record from @frosch! The crowd is going wild. Of course, they did get some heat into their bigotry tyres during their warmup lap where they aced the Holocaust trivilization coner, which put them on a perfect line to hug the apex of transphobe’s chicaine and finished with the classic blue haired leftist move.

HumanBehaviorByBjork ,
@HumanBehaviorByBjork@hexbear.net avatar

we’re unhinged, but I don’t know what a “commienazi” is supposed to be. kind of sounds like a contradiction.

ilfi ,

Holy fuck, it seems like there are only 2 extreme opposite sides and both are full of shit, clowns and morons. Why can’t we just have some middle ground?

ThisMachineKillsFascists ,
@ThisMachineKillsFascists@hexbear.net avatar

There is no such thing. That’s like asking to only kill half a person to meet in the middle.

letsgocrazy ,

Why are people this days totally incapable of understanding what moderation means?

There’s some truth to this “mind Virus” idea.

Moderation doesn’t mean “I would only like half the holocaust” - it means understanding that not every single thing everyone who claims to align with your politics does is “good”, and that people who have an different suggestion for how to solve a problem aren’t “evil”.

Politics has gotten crazy and comments like yours really don’t help

GoodEye8 ,

Because it requires nuance and that just too big of sacrifice to make when you have to be right about everything.

HumanBehaviorByBjork ,
@HumanBehaviorByBjork@hexbear.net avatar

I know right? It’s like, I don’t think nonwhites are inferior, but I also don’t think free markets are a viable means to solve the social evils of bigotry, war, and environmental devastation. If only there was a political camp for me!

ThisMachineKillsFascists ,
@ThisMachineKillsFascists@hexbear.net avatar

neither I sympathize with those who call everyone nazi when they’re losing an argument ;)

Oh hey, look, it’s the same thought terminating argument that the alt-right uses to whitewash Nazis!

letsgocrazy ,

Hey look its the same thought terminating argument tankies use when they want to bring about purges for “wrong think”.

ShimmeringKoi , (edited )
@ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net avatar

It’s so cute when one of you is obviously just pulling out whatever scary Orwell words you remember from 8th grade english class

ScrivenerX ,

Funny how one instance is the one everyone wants to defederate from.

Flinch ,
@Flinch@hexbear.net avatar

people hate getting called out for their terrible opinions shrug-outta-hecks

bigboig ,

Lol is that why hexbear is defederating from so many instances?

Zuberi ,
@Zuberi@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Any instance not arguing in good faith gets removed normally.

Why so much drama over fed or defed, just change instances if you don’t agree with your admin

DogMuffins ,

You’re right of course, but it’s still something that the fediverse is trying to figure out.

flashgnash ,

I think where that falls down is if a big community is in X instance, the instance admins have control over that instance

Doesn’t matter what instance you switch to if the communities you participate in are under that instance’s control

Not saying that’s a huge problem yet but it could turn into one and then we get powermods all over again

UnicodeHamSic ,

They hate us for being right

Schadrach ,

Currently. Of course in the past it was exploding heads for being Nazis, Lemmygrad for being insufferable tankies, then Burggit for lolicon, now hexbear for being insufferable tankies.

randint ,

Heck I think Lemmygrad is more tolerable than Hexbear, by a lot.

can ,

Do they allow downvotes? Hexbear doesn’t which means everything they disagree with gets a reply with a handful of large emoji.

randint ,

They do. See lemmygrad.ml and see how almost every post has some downvotes. IMO this does make the posting culture there better.

BigNote ,

When everyone you meet is an asshole, you are probably the real asshole.

Funny how this works with social media as well.

PandaBearGreen ,
@PandaBearGreen@hexbear.net avatar

Says person calling people assholes.

Aabbcc ,

“you say you don’t like intolerance and yet that sounds like intolerance to me”

smug face

PandaBearGreen ,
@PandaBearGreen@hexbear.net avatar

smuglord

UnicodeHamSic ,

We understand what we are.

paperemail ,

Basically This

Viking_Hippie ,

Excellent! It’s exactly what the Dem leadership does 85% of the time (10% starting off just as awful as the GOP and 5% of the time actually holding firm on the only just course of action)!

MF_COOM ,

geordi-no defederate to maintain your very special echo chamber

geordi-yes defederate to stop sh.tjust.works chuds from harassing your comrades in DMs with violent, transphobic and ableist attacks

goat ,

other way around, buddy

https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/f017f0b3-ecf5-49be-a189-f73c6685ac5f.webp

brejela ,

Nazis do not deserve to live. I don’t see the problem.

goat ,

Too right on that one…

except you can’t just label everyone you don’t like a nazi.

krolden ,
@krolden@lemmy.ml avatar

Are you saying Nazis shouldn’t be killed?

Aabbcc ,

If you’re pulling the trigger on Nazis I hope you never guess wrong

goat ,

fuck 'em

But! The problem comes from labelling everyone a nazi because they disagree with you. I’ve been called a nazi many times by tankies and even other users. Do you think I should be killed?

can ,

What did we do?

dangblingus ,

Many instances have shit like hexbear federated, but have explicit rules on the side saying “no tankie shit”. make it make sense.

AOCapitulator ,
@AOCapitulator@hexbear.net avatar

stop being anticommunists and this problem is resolved

Texas_Hangover ,

Communism is the very definition of failure. How anybody could be simple enough to think that bullshit could ever be valid is shocking to me.

mounderfod ,
@mounderfod@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Tankies aren’t real Communists

Sucking the dick of authoritarian regimes does not make you communist

uralsolo ,

Which Communist regimes would say are the “real” communists? Because if you think (as many do) that every single mass movement that described itself as “communist” was bad, then I suspect you’re not a communist at all.

mounderfod ,
@mounderfod@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

I’m not communist, but I do observe that many of the existing “communist” states seem to be just authoritarianism disguised as the common good

spiderplant ,

All nation states are authoritarian disguised as the common good.

HumanBehaviorByBjork ,
@HumanBehaviorByBjork@hexbear.net avatar

yeah, exactly. which raises the question of why china specifically infuriates certain people to the exclusion of all other discussion.

ShimmeringKoi ,
@ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net avatar

Hell yeah there’s that lib homophobia, 1 milimeter below the surface at all times

mounderfod ,
@mounderfod@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

I’m bi but no go ahead, call me a homophobe for making a dick joke :p

mustardman ,

r/asablackman

mounderfod ,
@mounderfod@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Damn, guess I’m straight now

Oh wait, no

ShimmeringKoi , (edited )
@ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net avatar

Then you should know better than to be homophobic as a substitute for saying anything interesting. Self-reflection would probably help you to not embarass yourself in the future.

randint ,

Careful calling those regimes authoritarian. Hexbears like to attack this point by assigning a slightly different definition to authoritarian and then either (a) claim that all governments are “authoritarian” or (b) blame liberals for using this word to demonize socialist states. I once saw someone cite en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Authoritarianism to “prove” that those states are not authoritarian.

ScrivenerX ,

It’s worse than just that. They argue that acknowledgement of Stalin’s atrocities is Holocaust denial.

They are so scared and insecure they will lash out against anything that slightly challenges their beliefs. If they post sources it will be misreadings of fringe groups, or conveniently ignoring facts. Like how they believe tiananmen square wasn’t a big deal because the China killed about 300 people a mile away. Or how Cuba is a utopia even though it’s citizens chose to get run over by the coast guard instead of living there.

uralsolo ,

Today is September 3, 2023 and Joseph Stalin saved the world from fascism.

ThereRisesARedStar , (edited )

They argue that acknowledgement of Stalin’s atrocities is Holocaust denial.

No, we argue that equating the bad things the soviet union did to the holocaust is holocaust trivialization, which is a take from mainstream liberal historians. Because the bad things the soviet union did were tiny compared to the holocaust and pretty tame compared to the other Allies.

brain_in_a_box ,

As ever, actual Jewish Holocaust scholars agree with us

jewishcurrents.org/the-double-genocide-theory

brain_in_a_box ,

Not by “assigning a slightly different definition”, just by applying the definition consistently, rather than using the us-foreign-policy standard.

ThisMachineKillsFascists ,
@ThisMachineKillsFascists@hexbear.net avatar

Ah yes, doge-firefox, please tell me how consistent your beliefs are lmao

mustardman ,

Did you just ad hominimem this poor LIB ?

ThisMachineKillsFascists ,
@ThisMachineKillsFascists@hexbear.net avatar

I strawmanned ad hominined logical fallacied all over them.

TheBroodian ,

Heaven forbid an actually existing place on the planet actually make some real tangible gains for its people while necessarily suppressing threats

mounderfod ,
@mounderfod@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

There’s “threats” and there’s “anyone remotely criticising the regime”

There are some tangible gains in these places but also significant losses for the freedoms and rights of their residents

TheBroodian ,

They don’t/didn’t suppress criticism, that’s a myth

ThereRisesARedStar ,

Why does it always go to homophobia with these types

mounderfod ,
@mounderfod@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Idk where the homophobia is, I’m partial to sucking the odd dick myself, just not Mao Zedong or Vladimir Putin :p

ProfessorOwl_PhD ,
@ProfessorOwl_PhD@hexbear.net avatar

“umm actually I used it as an insult because it’s a good thing!”

How do you people survive the cognitive dissonance necessary to convince yourself you’re not being bigoted?

mounderfod ,
@mounderfod@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

“you people”?

Besides, I’m not bigoted because I disagree with your ideology, my way of pointing that out may have been hyperbolic but certainly not bigoted

ProfessorOwl_PhD ,
@ProfessorOwl_PhD@hexbear.net avatar

Yeah, you people, people who used homophobic insults about dick sucking but insist it’s ok because they’re gay/bi/have an LGBT friend.

I agree that you’re not bigoted because you disagree with our ideology, but you are definitely bigoted for using bigoted insults to point it out.

Riffraffintheroom ,

Real Communism exists only in the pure and untouched ethereal plane of your mind palace.

mounderfod ,
@mounderfod@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

It’s nice and warm in there, I like it

mustardman ,

Real communism also only exists within the walls of the Kremlin.

english.sse.com.cn

Zuzak ,

I support whatever this is so idk what that makes me

https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/1a7752f3-0a4c-463b-8821-483daa5dd3f1.webp

mustardman ,

Celebrating an increase in life expectancy from 30 to 40 years old is not remotely the win you think it is.

Zuzak ,

I’m celebrating the increase in life expectancy from 35 to higher than that of the US, actually, which is the win I think it is.

The point is not the immediate increase in that specific 5 year period, the point is the clear trend of rapid, long term increases after a long period of stagnation, with the pivitol turning point being exactly when the CPC came to power. You’re supposed to look at the whole graph.

mustardman ,

China never manipulates data coming out of their authoritarian country so good thing we can trust it. I’m sure their life expectancy is great with all their industrial pollution that regularly causes smog in their inner cities.

Zuzak , (edited )

Here is my source do you have a source that disputes that? Or is your belief based entirely on unfalsifiable faith?

Also curious if you think Chinese life expectancy is still like 35 or what lmao

You may also be interested in what the World Bank, that infamous communist propaganda rag, has to say:

Over the past 40 years, the number of people in China with incomes below $1.90 per day – the International Poverty Line as defined by the World Bank to track global extreme poverty– has fallen by close to 800 million. With this, China has contributed close to three-quarters of the global reduction in the number of people living in extreme poverty.

mustardman ,

I would expect you to understand unless you’ve read theory.

Zuzak ,

What theory would that be, lol?

mustardman ,

Milton Friedman and Ayn Rand. In Fountainhead, she goes in depth about how Chinese life expectancy statistics are generally made up.

Zuzak ,

Milton Friedman and Ayn Rand

michael-laugh

That’s incredible, I honestly did not see that one coming.

So tell me, what’s your best guess at what Chinese life expectancy was before the CPC came to power, and what do you think it is now? Do you dispute the numbers from before the communists were even in power? Or do you think they’re still living in mud huts?

mustardman ,

You can laugh, but communist oppression is no laughing matter. Please see this article where Ben Shapiro writes a thesis-level takedown of the mythos of Chinese life expectancy.

PipedLinkBot ,

Here is an alternative Piped link(s): piped.video/dQw4w9WgXcQ?si=KTi-2uYeRb6E8_cS

Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.

Zuzak ,

Please, I’ve read that article countless times. Here is a response that breaks down all the flaws in his argument.

mustardman ,

No don’t bother linking your dumb policies that you guys never abide by.

I’m merely acting reflexively to the behaviors I constantly observe from Hexbear users.

Zuzak ,

We always abide by the PPB, tyvm! soviet-huff

mustardman ,

No, but whenever you guys get “dunked on”, you compulsively link to it like a goddamned Manchurian candidate.

Zuzak ,

I’m just gonna say, if you’re still posting rickrolls in 2023, you don’t have a lot of room to talk about unoriginal bits.

mustardman ,

Ok boomer.

Zuzak ,

Man, you really didn’t like being wrong, huh.

mustardman ,

It’s impossible to engage in good faith debates with what is essentially the QAnon of the left.

Zuzak ,

QAnon, well known for being able to provide evidence for their beliefs from credible sources.

Aren’t you the one that’s more like QAnon, since you’re going purely off vibes and faith?

mustardman ,

Aren’t you the one that’s more like QAnon, since you’re going purely off vibes and faith?

“no, u”

HumanBehaviorByBjork ,
@HumanBehaviorByBjork@hexbear.net avatar

I haven’t seen that movie, does a pig shit on its own balls?

mustardman ,

Serious question - is that normal for pigs or is something wrong with it?

HumanBehaviorByBjork ,
@HumanBehaviorByBjork@hexbear.net avatar

I believe that’s normal for breeding hogs, yes

radiofreeval ,
@radiofreeval@hexbear.net avatar

Ben Shapiro

michael-laugh

mustardman ,

Lmao

radiofreeval ,
@radiofreeval@hexbear.net avatar

You have a bright future as a circus clown

mustardman ,

You just didn’t bother clicking that Benny Shaps link, did ya?

HumanBehaviorByBjork ,
@HumanBehaviorByBjork@hexbear.net avatar

The Fountainhead is a novel about an American architect that has nothing to do with China. They’re doing a weird bit, presumably about how evil tankies asking them to read books is cheating.

Zuzak ,

Yeah I got that, at least after they posted a rickroll. Guess being an idiot is a defense mechanism when they realized they had nothing.

mustardman ,

Communism increasing life expectancy!?

Shanghai Stock Exchange: english.sse.com.cn

Beijing Stock Exchange: www.bse.cn

Shenzhen Stock Exchange: www.szse.cn/English/index.html

That’s more stock exchanges than the US, comrade!

Zuzak ,

Oh, so you consider Deng’s reforms to be right-deviationist? Are you a Maoist, then?

Whether you consider the CPC to be communist or not, the fact still remains that they’ve made a lot of improvements in the lives of the average Chinese person.

mustardman ,

Deng was alive and well when two of those stock exchanges were opened and the whole argument was “look at the improvements only possible under Communism”.

How do you say “moving the goalposts” in Mandarin? Actually, no need to answer as you are all suburban petit bourgeois kids from the US.

Zuzak ,

Deng was alive and well when two of those stock exchanges were opened

That’s… what I said? Obviously, Deng was the one who implemented economic reforms, such as opening stock exchanges and allowing foreign investment. Some Maoists consider this to be right-deviationist and counter-revolutionary, and that he should’ve continued more in line with Mao’s policies. That’s why I asked if you’re a Maoist, since you consider his reforms incompatible with socialism.

I’m not sure who’s whole argument was “look at the improvements only possible under Communism.” China’s conditions were much worse off than places like the US, so obviously it’s possible to improve conditions to be better than per-revolutionary China (which is not saying much) without communism. It’s just that in China’s case, it was the communists that did it.

mustardman ,

Mao died in 1976, which is where that life expectancy graph is somewhere in the mid 50s. Super impressive.

Zuzak ,

Over 60, actually. I think that doubling live expectancy over a single generation is, in fact, pretty impressive.

So I take it you’re not a Maoist or a Dengist. Can you tell me who you think should’ve been in power in China instead? The KMT? You can see how much they did on the graph, if you don’t find the CPC’s numbers impressive then I’m sure you’d hate them even more. The invading Japanese perhaps? The European colonizers? Or maybe you think the Qing dynasty should never have been overthrown.

mustardman ,

Correlation or causation? You know that industrialization increases life expectancy, right?

It’s not hard to double your life expectancy when you’re starting out with the same life expectancy that existed in the Roman Empire almost 2,000 years prior. Thanks, Mao!

Zuzak ,

Of course I know that, did you not read what I said?

“China’s conditions were much worse off than places like the US, so obviously it’s possible to improve conditions to be better than per-revolutionary China (which is not saying much) without communism.”

It’s not hard to double your life expectancy when you’re starting out with the same life expectancy that existed in the Roman Empire almost 2,000 years prior. Thanks, Mao!

It really is wild that no other faction was willing to do anything that would increase Chinese life expectancy above that of the Roman Empire, yes. I agree, thanks, Mao!

It’s pretty funny that you criticize Deng for implenting economic reforms that led to further industrialization, while also crediting the rise in life expectancy to that very same industrialization.

What even is your ideology? And can you answer my question about who should’ve come to power instead of the communists?

mustardman ,

So you agree it has nothing to do with communism and you’re just trolling around the internet. Got it.

Zuzak ,

I have no idea what thought process led you to post that but ok.

There were a lot of really simple, basic improvements that the peasants in China desperately needed. Anybody could’ve done what was needed, but nobody else was willing to, because nobody else cared. There was no special technical economic policy that uplifted them, it was just a willingness to address their needs that no other faction possessed.

mustardman ,

The entire point of this brilliant thread is that communism, not individuals, lifted people out of poverty. Numerous economic systems have high life expectancy (socialist, capitalist, etc) and the common denominator is basically just industrialization.

Who would have thought the ability to make nation-state quantities of medication extends lives?

Zuzak ,

The entire point

That’s all you fam, I never said anything like that. All I did was point to graph and say I liked it when people do things (and political projects) that make life expectancy skyrocket. You seem to have read a bunch of stuff into that.

mustardman ,

I support whatever this is so idk what that makes me

en.wikipedia.org/…/List_of_countries_by_life_expe…

I’m assuming you equally support all those capitalist countries that have high life expectancies. Samsung Korea I mean South Korea with it’s life expectancy of 84 years is generally considered a great society on Hexbear, no?

Zuzak ,

Life expectancy doesn’t always give the whole picture. For example, in my graph, there are times where China’s life expectancy is rising very rapidly, but it was still considerably lower than that of other countries. It’s necessary to analyze what policies lead to what results and what the reasons are for the success or failure of a given political project or policy.

I haven’t studied South Korea’s policies and material conditions closely enough to offer much of an informed analysis, as the world is a very big place. You could always make a thread about it on c/askchapo or something.

mustardman ,

Life expectancy doesn’t always give the whole picture.

Could have saved us a lot of time, going all the way back to the post where you used life expectancy to try to paint a whole picture.

Zuzak ,

Just because it doesn’t paint the full picture doesn’t mean it isn’t important. The data in this case shows some very clear conclusions.

Sometimes I try to post more in depth theory, the last time I tried that, everyone complained that it was TLDR.

mustardman ,

I mean this genuinely - It seems like you’re one of the more reasonable Hexbear users, just for saying this alone:

I haven’t studied South Korea’s policies and material conditions closely enough to offer much of an informed analysis, as the world is a very big place.

Intelligence is always knowing where your current knowledge ends. I don’t have all the answers to everything either and it’s easier to engage in discussion when both participants know their limitations, which is the bare minimum required for a good faith discussion. Virtually all other Hexbear users double down and go on the offensive when they are hit with something they don’t know about, which is why I’ve developed a particular disdain for users from your instance and refrain from substantial engagement because it always devolves into sealioning. The only way I have found to engage with users from your instance is reflexively using their own debate strategies otherwise I’m constantly told I “don’t know anything unless I’ve read insert-book-of-the-week”.

I used South Korea because it’s pretty much worse than the US in every regard. My joke, “Samsung Korea”, wasn’t an ignorant American’s take thinking all they make are cell phones, rather, Samsung is basically at the top of their oligarchy and has more control over their government than US corporations, believe it or not. South Korea has one of the best life expectancies, but is one of the worse examples of capitalism.

Zuzak , (edited )

I think your problem is that you jump to conclusions too quickly. I think you’ll have better luck with Hexbears if you slow down and make sure you actually understand what our point is instead of just trying to win before you have a clear picture of what the other person’s position is.

mustardman ,

Oh well, double down I guess. A prominant Hexbear community is called “Dunking On Libs”, which, as we both know, is going to other instances where they engage in “jumping to conclusions” and “just trying to win”.

You almost had self awareness. Almost.

I’ll leave you with what I wrote in my last post:

The only way I have found to engage with users from your instance is reflexively using their own debate strategies

Zuzak ,

I can’t speak for every user on my instance (nor can you for yours), but I can say that many of us also respond in kind to what we get. When you tried to dunk on me, you got PPB’d. You’ll get the same if you lob baseless accusations (like calling us “the QAnon of the left”) or confidently assert bad, uninformed takes.

HumanBehaviorByBjork ,
@HumanBehaviorByBjork@hexbear.net avatar

good bit

HumanBehaviorByBjork ,
@HumanBehaviorByBjork@hexbear.net avatar

No one in China is over 50. If you’re over 50 in China they just shoot you, and then they lie and say they didn’t.

HumanBehaviorByBjork ,
@HumanBehaviorByBjork@hexbear.net avatar

My god he can’t read a graph. How has our educational system been allowed to fail for this long?

I’m not committed at all to China as the salvation of the communist project, but it’s exactly this sort of self-imposed illiteracy and ignorance, and nearly religious faith in the inferiority and duplicity of The Orient that makes me default to distrusting anything negative a cracker says about it.

mustardman ,

Comrade, I also blindly trust any graph as dear leader would have it.

…wikimedia.org/…/800px-Trump_holding_altered_Dori…

HumanBehaviorByBjork ,
@HumanBehaviorByBjork@hexbear.net avatar

let’s skip to the end of the discussion: I say “that’s not anything like what I said.” you say “yes but you believe those statistics are true???” I say “do you have any good evidence that they’re fabricated, and that the life expectancy in China is actually still hovering around 40?” you beg the question, possibly implying that Chinese people are inherently untrustworthy, and accuse me of supporting genocide. There is nothing I can say to you that will instill an ounce of critical thinking ability in you.

wall-talk

mustardman ,

I mean all Hexbear links are essentially the Pravda. It doesn’t help when you guys treat Wikipedia like it’s somehow the same as conservapedia.com

HumanBehaviorByBjork ,
@HumanBehaviorByBjork@hexbear.net avatar

I don’t think census data compiled and verified by the UN DESA is Pravda, a publication which does not exist anymore. I quite like Wikipedia and I think it’s a very good way to get a quick introductory understanding of a topic which you’ve just learned about. In this case it prints a similar graph citing the same data, so I don’t know why you would mention it to support your strange argument that China’s life expectancy has not significantly improved under communism.

It’s not even that outrageous a thing to believe, but you demand that I presume it false because believing that China is a normal country opens the door to believing a whole bunch of other scary things.

mustardman ,

Why are you pretending like China is communist when they have several stock exchanges? Is that where you exchange MarxBux?

Shanghai Stock Exchange: english.sse.com.cn

Beijing Stock Exchange: www.bse.cn

Shenzhen Stock Exchange: www.szse.cn/English/index.html

That’s more stock exchanges than the US, comrade!

HumanBehaviorByBjork ,
@HumanBehaviorByBjork@hexbear.net avatar

I don’t really care whether or not China is communist, or if other people think it’s communist for various esoteric reasons. It doesn’t effect me either way. State Department propaganda and warmongering does effect me though.

mustardman ,

Of course you don’t care if it is communist. Communism was never the point. Mask comes off that you guys are just authoritarians masquerading as glorious revolutionaries.

HumanBehaviorByBjork ,
@HumanBehaviorByBjork@hexbear.net avatar

No, I’m not Chinese. China is not important to my politics at all. That’s like the first thing I said if you scroll up.

mustardman ,

All of Hexbear is suburban US kids so of course I knew you didn’t live in any of these glorious peoples republics.

HumanBehaviorByBjork ,
@HumanBehaviorByBjork@hexbear.net avatar

But I hate the United States

mounderfod ,
@mounderfod@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Fair enough

Cjwii ,

Stop being antisocial

ThisMachineKillsFascists ,
@ThisMachineKillsFascists@hexbear.net avatar

Anticommunist

antisocial

Literally same thing lol

AntiOutsideAktion ,
@AntiOutsideAktion@hexbear.net avatar

I don’t know what to tell you; the tankies are right.

HumanBehaviorByBjork ,
@HumanBehaviorByBjork@hexbear.net avatar

easy solution: your definition of tankie shit is so incredibly broad that it includes anything to the left of the US Democratic party

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