Haha I remember the days of downloading random EXEs off the internet and running them to see what they do (also the days of CD-rom drives).
My auntie somehow managed to get a virus that played Für Elise through the motherboard speaker and never stopped so long as the thing was on. I don’t think they ever solved it, in the end they just got a new PC.
Computers in 97 didn’t need much in the way of cooling. A large passive heatsink was plenty for those CPUs. They’re not the 300+ watt behemoths we have today.
I really remember heatsinks being a thing on overclocked systems around that time frame and then once we got to P4 cpus the chilling towers appeared those things were massive
The lower power 486s didn’t even need a heatsink. The P3 was the first to take a heasink resembling what we have today, but damn did the P4s need some serious cooling.
It’s kinda funny how we think the 100 watts of a desktop P4 was insane when now the TDP of a high end laptop CPU is more than that.
Edit: I’m an idiot, T series is low power socketed, not mobile. 14900HX has a TDP of 55W but boosts short term to 157W, which is still pretty ridiculous
My 11950H (and all other “full power” Intel mobile CPUs) have a PL1 of >100 watts (109 for mine), and mine a PL2 of 139 watts. This laptop is about an inch thick.
Nothing about this laptop sips power, I’ve gotten as bad as 30 minutes of battery life out of a 90 watt hour battery not playing games.
If you meant cell phones and tablets, that’s mostly due to the different architecture. RISC processors are super energy efficient, which also makes them much cooler to run.
x86-64 is a CISC architecture, which tends to be much more power hungry. There are only a couple of very low power Celeron CPUs that work under 10W of TDP, while that’s very common among phones’ CPUs.
In many cases it’s actually RISC under the hood and uses an interpreter to translate the CISC commands and run them in the most optimal manner on the silicon
ARM and RISC-V absolutely scale up to multi-hundred watt server CPUs quite easily. Just look at the Ampere systems you can rent from various VPSes for example
The big benefit that ARM and RISC-V have is they have no established backwards compatibility to keep carrying technical debt forwards. ARM versions their instruction sets and software has to be released for given versions of ARM cores, and RISC-V is simply too new to have any significant technical debt on the instruction set side.
Atom cores were notable for focusing the architecture on some instructions then other instructions would be a slog to execute, so they were really good at certain things and for desktop use (especially in the extremely budget machines they got shoved into) they were painful. Much like how eCores are now. They’re very carefully architected for power efficiency, and do their jobs extremely well, but an all eCore CPU is a slog for desktop use in many cases
I mean I guess you are supposed to take it to your computer repair shop and tell them it won’t stop playing Für Elise, and the shop is supposed to recognise it as a failure of CPU fan signal. If it just beeped a few times on startup then people would ignore it, and if it beeped constantly then well maybe Für Elise is nicer.
Tip: be passive aggressive and sarcastic when helping them. It both teaches them the solution in a memorable way, makes them not want to get help from you again, AND makes them think twice before doing so.
I don’t think those speakers are capable of voice. They can handle a few different beep tones and that’s about it. The song was not like listening to Spotify, it was played using beep tones.
You could just about play speech using one bit output using pulse-width-modulation. But it was almost unrecognizable. And would take a lot of memory for the time.
It was usual to have different numbers of beeps for POST errors.
But this was an age when a PC would say “Keyboard error. Press any key to continue”, so things were not thought out that well.
If your keyboard was actually working, you pressed a key. If it was not working, you went to get new keyboard. What is “not thought through” about that?
I had an Athlon motherboard with voice POST messages… one night I woke up to it saying “your CPU has a problem!” over and over and was freaked out until I was completely awake and figure out what was wrong.
It wasn’t high quality coming through the piezo speaker, but it was good enough.
I definitely remember short 2 or 3 second clips of relatively high quality music being played through our family’s IBM XT’s motherboard speaker at one point using a demo we got from a BBS or the Public Domain Software site in the mid-80s. It wasn’t easy but some madman made a proof-of-concept that did it and it was incredible at the time.
Back in my day, that used to be the only way a computer could produce sound. Later on you could purchase a specialized sound card that would take up a slot in your motherboard.
My dad used to disable the motherboard speaker because the noises games made back then were more annoying than fun. We eventually got a soundcard, and that was awesome.
386 era machines often had a 4 inch speaker in the front panel. It couldn’t do much. Some main boards still come with headers for a speaker, some even come with an electret beeper
A good number do, but you won’t hear anything during normal operation. If your vomputer has ever beeped at you when you try to turn it on at 0% battery, accessed the bios, etc., there’s a good chance that was the motherboard speaker.
There was also a program that would open the CD-ROM drive and play a raspberry noise at random intervals. It was a fun prank to set it to run at login.
Ah shit the sheep thing! In fact, there were others I can’t remember. And I seem to remember somewhere along the line they went from fun to spam things walking around your screen trying to make you buy shit or maybe they were trying to scam you, I can’t remember but they weren’t fun anymore, and hard to get rid of.
Haha, in highschool I put sheep.exes into the school labs startup folders as a prank once. A couple days later the tech teacher approached me and was like “nobody’s in trouble but these things are a nightmare and if I have to reimage half the lab to get rid of them it would personally ruin my day”. Somehow all the sheep were gone by the next day
I remember labs full of networked Win 98 machines in middle school, with like Novell software on them for login credentials and whatnot. The computers sat there with a login screen and when students logged into it you would be presented with the Office suite and a restricted web browser and some educational packages. A lot of normal Win 98 stuff wasn’t there though, like any settings menus. But there was some convoluted way where you could bring up a help text and then by navigating deep in the menu system somehow cause it to launch to a “normal” Win 98 desktop.
I remember getting sent to the principals office for “hacking” (pinging the computer in the next room) in like 8th grade.
Back in 4th/5th I actually was hacking, modifying our user menu to add Windows 3.1 and a password (copying config from a teacher’s profile). Also brute-forced at least two teachers passwords.
Lol the für Elise thing is funny. Back in highschool I got a “PC maintenance” credit which had me assigned as support in the computer lab. I made a batch script that ran on startup and showed a warning message saying the hard disk will self destruct and did a countdown from 10 with the motherboard speaker beeping down, fun times
In the US you don’t get your full driver’s license until 18. 16 is permit and requires an over 21 license driver with you, and 17 is a provisional license so it has restrictions on how late you can drive and how many people can be in the car.
I think that may be a state restriction. For sure you can get a permit at 15, and 16 should be provisional, but iirc the only restriction is that those under 18 cant drive after 11pm, atleast in FL.
Pretty sure the US allows individual states to set the ages. In Canada, it’s provinces that set it. Lowest age I’ve ever heard of was 12 (for limited permits to move farm machinery along back roads in Saskatchewan, although that was decades ago and it might not still be a thing). I had a full and unrestricted license at 16, but the rules have changed since then.
Yeah but I think what he’s saying is that you can have a license, but there are still restrictions for a certain amount of time. In California when I got my license on my 16th birthday, I think it was 6 months that I couldn’t have anyone in the car under 18 without someone over 25, and I couldn’t drive past 10 or 11 pm (unless I was coming from work or some kind of emergency). It’s been a minute (almost 20 years lol) and I remember changes to the rules not long after my restrictions were lifted (I think they extended them to a year), but yeah, it’s not like they handed you a license and you were a free agent.
In most of the USA, you could get a permit at 15 1/2 years old, and this came with the restriction of needing someone over 18 with you.
Then at 16, if you passed the test, you were given a license and could drive all you want. No restrictions, no limits, have your friends in the car, no one really cared. Then people started to realize that giving 16 years olds free rein to drive causes a lot of accidents. Over the past ~15 years more states have adopted the graduated driver’s license and it has caused a notable drop in fatalities.
Admittedly it’s been a long time since this was relevant to me, so this may have changed, but where and when I grew up in the US you could get a learner’s permit (unlimited driving with another qualified driver in the car) at 15 yrs and 9 mos, then a full license (able to drive by yourself and transport anyone over 18) at, I think, 16 and 6 mos. At 18 the restrictions on whom you could transport disappeared, but I’ve never heard of anyone paying attention to or enforcing those rules anyway.
There may also have been a restriction about driving after midnight, but I don’t recall for sure.
Almost everywhere… there are very few places where you can drive before you’re 18. There are like junuor permits and you can get them when you’re 16, but your parrents are the ones responsible for your driving. Something happens, they get ringed. So, yeah, they can also not give you the license if you cause too much trouble.
Yeah, I assumed most of the world was at least 18. I was surprised when I moved to the US at 15 and could get a learner’s permit and drive with an adult, and drive by myself at 16.
Yeah, I totally understand how it’s necessary across many parts of the US. There’s so much I couldn’t have done in high school, like having a job, if I couldn’t drive. I didn’t live in a rural area, but between the sprawl and lack of public transportation…
Also the strip stops midway through as Waterfall was an invented thing just for a paper. And during your UP work you actually had the customer put in that input and hence it was like in this cartoon strip.
I don’t think so. I just made a screenshot of one random convo he’s having about this, but there’s loads more in a similar fashion.
And all of his other posts besides this one seem legit on the surface.
So it would be pretty weird if he randomly has a very bad take, and then just claims “Lol this was a troll post, gotcha!”… That’s pretty much the 4chan defense when you get called out - “Haha guys, I’m actually not r-worded, I’m just trolling!”
I distinguish four types. There are clever, hardworking, stupid, and lazy officers. Usually two characteristics are combined. Some are clever and hardworking; their place is the General Staff. The next ones are stupid and lazy; they make up 90 percent of every army and are suited to routine duties. Anyone who is both clever and lazy is qualified for the highest leadership duties, because he possesses the mental clarity and strength of nerve necessary for difficult decisions. One must beware of anyone who is both stupid and hardworking; he must not be entrusted with any responsibility because he will always only cause damage.
I think this is a fake quote that somebody made up for an Internet comedy bit, since it seems unlikely for Hollywood actress Sydney Sweeney to have such uncharacteristically strong opinion on software version control, of all things.
Because she of all people would know that there isn’t anything wrong with using git merge, and it ultimately comes down to personal preference to what you are used to.
But esteemed Academy Award nominated character actress and film director, Margot Robbie, if it’s unlikely that Hollywood actress Sydney Sweeney said this… wouldn’t it be just as unlikely that Margot Robbie would be here? Adding her own comment?
… are you projecting? Is there something you want to tell us esteemed Academy Award nominated character actress and film director Margot Robbie?
Margot Robbie, I was about to agree with you and thought that was a very reasonable take, until you tried to argue that git merge is better than git rebase, then I simply had to disregard the whole thing.
I know it’s a joke but I prefer the tab option. It’s easy to convert tabs to any particular spacing or code point width. It can also vary, if wanted, based on terminal or editor type.
People with worse eyesight can have a wider indentation while those who choose can opt for something more compact
I can’t imagine it would be difficult for an IDE to scale the width of spaces found at the start of a line, to emulate this same customization while still preserving my sanity as a fervent space-indenter. I’ve never seen an IDE that does this, but it’d be an interesting compromise.
It's not difficult at all, and many editors and IDEs already support this, making the entire point moot. Just do whatever the style guide says. I'm into PHP and Python so for me it's spaces all the way.
I guess the indention sizer thing knows how the formater works and adjusts accordingly. I can’t imagine it would be too much of a problem.
Iirc Jetbrain IDEs has a feature called dynamic tabs/space (or something like that) which uses exclusively tabs until it needs to align something and a tab doesn’t fit, so it uses a few spaces instead.
Maybe alignment more for the righthand side of assignments. If you have a block of variables with different name lengths, or within a constructor / function call.
All parsers ignore a shitload of whitespace already. Just compare unformatted code, COMPLETELY unformatted code, code without character returns, and it’ll become obvious how any given language is interpreted around whitespace.
Also fun to see just how infrequent a semicolon is ‘actually’ needed to tell when the end of a statement is here.
What if instead of having the IDE special case space characters at the start of a line, we had a special character that could represent a variable width space?
Then you use the variable width space for code indentation, then, when you’re at the code indentation level, you’d switch to spaces for alignment. If the IDE special cased all space characters at the start of the line you wouldn’t have that flexibility. You could also easily create a linter that ensured that the variable width space always has the correct indentation level, and ignore the standard space characters after it.
Honestly I always preferred tabs for indentation and spaces for aligning. It doesn’t break anyone’s experience. And if somebody wants two spaces for a two-space-tab-width for indentation and other people prefer four. That will work just fine.
I hate seeing 2 space indents. Unreadable AF ( to me ). At least this way I can easily work in the same codebase without somebody being annoyed ( except for the crying about the tabs )
Why not tabs for both indentation and alignment? (Actually, I see indentation as just a specific use of alignment.) Word processors have been doing it for decades (and typewriters for over a century!). Surely we can convince our code processors to use user-definable, fixed position tabs instead of relative position “tab = x spaces”.
Keeping the [TAB] character in the file then allows everyone the layout they like.
What I mean with tab = x spaces is only visually and not actually ( there will ( obviously) still be a tab character in my preference. Not sure if that was clear.
Because alignment are fixed characters compared to indentation. For indentation the only question is how many characters the next indentation needs to be.
For alignment it is not fixed. As an example of PHP code:
The dots would be spaces because in IDEs people generally use a font where every character is equally wide.
If I would tab again instead of spaces it could work out if my tab length display is ( for one or more ) adds up to the width of the variable $obj. If somebody else has a tab width of 2 rather than somebody who has 3. It would only align for one of the two people.
Does make sense? I typed it out after a gym session on my phone.
Additionally. The whole problem is resolved by using spaces for both alignment and indentation. But in the cursor would still jump one space at a time rather than the whole tab ( although there are keyboard shortcuts for jumping words which would jump all of em.
I don’t know. Call me old fashioned. I like what I like :/
If I correctly understand what you are saying, you are describing “relative” tabbing, where /t moves a constant distance from the current position. I prefer “stopped” tabs where /t moves to the next tab stop. If my /t doesn’t create the spacing/alignment I’m after, I just tab to the next position.
Thus, I would set mine with the first tab position (for indenting) at 1.5 cm and subsequent tab stops at 3, 4, 5, … cm. That way I’d get perfect alignment with both fixed and proportional fonts.
I’d also set line-wrap or line-continuation to use a hanging indent based on the start position of the line being wrapped or continued.
I’d also set a boundary between code and comments so that lines always wrapped before the boundary and using the comment character at the end of a line would jump to the other side of the boundary with optional leaders (the characters, usually periods that connect the end/beginning of a gap). In an ideal world, I would be able to “hide code”, pulling all the inline comments into a “hanging indent” structure with their “parent” comments.
Yes, before the advent of IDE editors and all the fancy intellisense stuff, I used word-processing software for coding. 😀
You did not, but he also picked an example that could be conflated with the 4-spaces issue.
They’re talking about situations where you might want to align text by a number of spaces that isn’t divisible by your tab size. I’ll expand on their example:
In this case, the “>” are showing the tab stops and the “-” the resulting white space. Note how all the calls are lined up. (My preferred alignment style, not necessarily anyone else’s.)
Yet another edit: I see that I missed addressing alignment on other than tab boundaries. To me, that’s just sinful! 😀
Correct. The way I’m used to it ( and how I thought the world worked ) is that the IDE gives tab a fixed length or characters. If you set it to 4 it would be the equivalent of 4 spaces or 4 letters or whatever.
If my tab is set to 4 it would take up the width of 4 characters. If I need two indentations I would press tab twice.
If bob then checks out my code and calls me a maniac and sociopath for using indentation and swears by “2”, the code would just look more condensed. The alignment would still work out because that’s done through spaces.
This would align the = for Bob, because it needs two characters to align and that’s what his tab width is. It wouldn’t align for me because my tab width is 4. So I would.pur two spaces instead of the . That way it is aligned for everybody regardless of their tab width settings.
The way you explain it sounds like how tabs works in MS Word ( or other word processors ).
I don’t think I could work like that. I’ve only ever used IDEs to code ( regardless of how primitive they were back when I started). Interesting take though :D
The way you explain it sounds like how tabs works in MS Word ( or other word processors ).
That is exactly how they work, and after 40 years, I still struggle with the whole “tab as a shortcut for spaces” thing. It’s not that I started with word processors, either, just that as soon I started working with them, everything got so much easier for me.
There are some code-specific things that keep me from just going back to a word processor, but I think our code editors are missing some useful features that are found in word processors.
The fact that you had to explain this is the reason why tabs are inferior in practice. People just don’t get it and then in collaborative projects you get a completely misaligned mess because not everyone has the same tab size.
I agree, tabs are better but I have been using spaces for so long I can’t even imagine switching to tabs. also I’d have to reformat all my abandoned projects.
While that may be true, this is still likely an automated response built by a script that found some keywords on your profile. I still get the occasional proposition for RPG work, and I haven't touched an AS/400 in over a 20 years which my profile reflects. I haven't even touched my profile in years. But the script doesn't care about that. That's for the HR rep to filter out later if you respond.
Why you are no doubt correct; as someone who’s had to support a BarTender based automated print system in a manufacturing company, this skillet need doesn’t surprise me at all and is part of why the software gave me a drinking problem.
So you’re saying it would help to have both a bartender, and a bartender specialist on the team. Seems like we might be doing the bot a disservice here
I’m still getting weekly emails (and who knows how many linked in messages) trying to recruit me over a profile I haven’t updated in a decade…aka 2 years after I entered the industry
One of these days, I’m going to set up my AI assistant to respond. Who knows, with an even playing field maybe some of them will be worthwhile
Southern Italy is better at pizza, we all agree atelier all that’s where pizza comes from. Florence is not in the south however, you might have had a good pizza, you can eat very good pizza everywhere in Italy. That said general consensus is Naples is where you want to go for the good good shit.
IT consulting pro-tip: Customers would rather pay for your time and expertise, than be made to feel stupid that they didn’t think of something so simple themselves.
After working in desktop support for a year after college, I realized that people just wanted their problem solved and to not feel frustrated. That realization made my job immensely easier because I pivoted from copying a file in 30 seconds and walking away to talking to them a little bit and letting them feel good after we were done. My ticket closing speed slowed down a little but people felt better and I consistently got positive feedback.
Dude same here. I usually say stuff along the lines of ‘yea it took me forever the first time to figure it out’ or ‘it’s a common issue that a lot of people have, I’ll get it sorted in a sec for you no problem’. Make it seem like they’re not stupid, regardless of the truth and then fix it, keeps em happy and more willing to cooperate with you as well.
I also talk through what I’m doing and if they show interest I’ll teach them so they can fix it in the future, ‘ah I’ve seen this before, took me like a hour to figure it out on my computer, for me it was a chrome update that broke how downloaded files open. Here let me right click the file, and go to open with, we hit Adobe pdf and check the always open with this program button, that should do it let’s test it out. OK seems like its good to go. Let me know if you have any more issues’. If they don’t show interest then it’s no problem.
Are you my kindred spirit!? :P Thats almost exactly what I do too!
My favourite is when someone apologies for not knowing something or having dumb questions. Apart from “there is never a dumb question” because there usually isn’t, I typically respond with “if everyone already knew how to do everything, I’d be out of a job” which always seems to go down well.
Same story here, actually. I cut my teeth on internet telephony (modems) support for an ISP. People would call up furious about not being able to connect. I learned that chatting people up during a long Windows reboot did a lot to humanize their struggle and get them to calm down and loosen up. First few times were organic, then I started looking for pretenses to do this, just to bring the temperature down for the rest of the call.
Call centers tell you to empathize but that’s not something you can teach. You can either do it or you can’t. So they give those terrible scripts, and then some of them require you to speak the scripted lines, even when you know all it does is piss the caller off.
No hears that scripted pablum at the start of call and thinks it’s genuine. No one. “I’m sorry to hear your having issues sir, but I’ll be happy to assist you.” genuinely comes off condescending at this point. They know you know it’s scripted, they know you know the representative has to say it, but they make them do it anyway.
Here’s what I found doing ISP call center work, and it worked virtually every single time: imply through tone and pointed comments you’re as frustrated as the called with how shitty the service and the hardware is. They’re never prepared for it, it always catches their anger off guard.
Don’t outright say “Yeah, Cox is absolute dog shit, and that POS gateway we make you pay for isn’t worth the cost of the the technician we’re sending out to ‘fix’ it.” You’ll get in trouble for that.
But if you’re careful and creative, you can make them appreciate you think that
Eh, it’s less intuitive than you might think, as someone who already knows how to do it.
I once had to explain this process to a software engineer who was quite senior to me. The guy wasn’t any idiot, he was a pretty competent engineer, he just didn’t know this trick.
The cops might even already know how to do it, they just don’t want to, because they’re cops.
Just yesterday, I was helping this manager set up a new system of ticket line (the kind where you get a ticket number and wait for it to be called in a panel). He complained that they didn’t have a proper printer just for these tickets, so he made the tickets in excel and printed them. To the right of the number, someone would mark the service, from a list of 6.
“Why not use a single letter prefix and print different piles of passwords? (A01, A02, A03; B01, B02, etc)”
That’ll use too much paper. We’ll also need more tickets than before
“That will use less paper, you can print 2 tickets using the same space. Also, the amount of tickets always depends on the number of people that show up, but you’ll have a better idea of which service is being needed each day”
Mr manager didn’t like the idea and moved on to another problem.
And if my grandma had two wheels she would be a bicycke.
No, she would be human with two wheels. That is not what a bicycle is
What are we talking about again?
We are talking about the fact that when someone says “that is not relevant”, countering with “if some facts were different, it would suddenly be relevant” is not very useful answer.
You also have to “change facts” to have the Bobby Tables xkcd apply here, because this is about plates and not children.
It doesn’t have to apply 100% to be a relevant xkcd, they just posted it because, like op’s pic, it’s about a person trying to be clever by messing with speed cameras, but everyone would know whose fault is it the second time it happens because of how weird the plate is.
Your one obviously applies more, but there’s no need to gatekeep.
And (by how I understood it) the point of the I1I1 plate was that it wasn’t easily discernible and the camera couldn’t identify it correctly to link it to the owner, but the police knew who it was nonetheless because it’s always the same guy that already got caught. I might be wrong though, it’s just a funny comic and isn’t probably meant to be looked into that deeply.
And (by how I understood it) the point of the I1I1 plate was that it wasn’t easily discernible and the camera couldn’t identify it correctly
the point was it was hard to read and remember for a human. hence why the witness in the comic gives only vague description, which is what the owner of the sneaky plate hoped for, but due to its uniqueness the police knew and the plate failed to achieve its intended purpose on a spectacular level. there was no automation involved at all.
I’m pretty sure the cameras around here don’t use OCR at all or even if it does it only recognizes the format for plates from a thing shaped like a plate. So if you’re driving like an ass with the drop tables-“plate” that is pretty relevant.
The Bobby Tables one I’m quite sure would work at least on some systems if they let you input your kids name by yourself to some sort of digital form. Or at least I would be pretty surprised if every school system on earth would be patched against simple sql injections.
So if you’re driving like an ass with the drop tables-“plate” that is pretty relevant.
the only thing they have in common is the license plate. that is like saying that every joke that starts with “three people walk into a bar” is basically the same joke.
but here, have a photo that is actually relevant to the submitted xkcd ;)
The license plate cameras near me simply take a photo when motion is detected and send it to the server or stores it until connection is reestablished. Then they use image recognition on the car to determine the make and model and on the license plate. They also claim that they can record items such as bumper stickers or body damage. I think that they probably have humans review cars that don’t match exactly. My guess is that they use object detection to isolate the license plate, but you could probably make one by printing text onto a piece of paper and gluing it onto some cardboard. I also think you could mess with it if you put a decal of a letter or number next to your license plate.
I literally just posted this in !software_gore because they had the same energy so I found it on the original Reddit post remembered this one too. Great minds think alike?
Hi there! Looks like you linked to a Lemmy community using a URL instead of its name, which doesn’t work well for people on different instances. Try fixing it like this: !software_gore
<span style="color:#323232;">Hark! An SSL error, a tempest 'pon our web,
</span><span style="color:#323232;">Wherein secure connection falters, doth ebb.
</span><span style="color:#323232;">Aye, 'tis a quandary, a breach of secure bond,
</span><span style="color:#323232;">Thus, a web of trust, alas, beyond respond.
</span><span style="color:#323232;">In cryptic seas, where code and cipher dance,
</span><span style="color:#323232;">An error doth arise, denying safe romance.
</span><span style="color:#323232;">Oh, noble server, fraught with digital woe,
</span><span style="color:#323232;">Thy encryption falters, aye, laid low.
</span><span style="color:#323232;">Let us mend this rift, this breach, anon,
</span><span style="color:#323232;">And restore the web to its rightful throne."
</span>
<span style="color:#323232;"> --- Lord ChatGPT of Someshire
</span>
The next generation of script kiddies is going to be iPad babies. It’ll be interesting to see, since the majority can’t use anything in tech unless it’s an app.
We built computer labs in schools, to teach kids how to use computers. Then we decided computers are ubiquitous enough that we didn’t need computer labs anymore. And now we have an entire generation that doesn’t know how to use computers, because they use their phones and tablets for everything instead.
People wrote software before there’s was computers for them to grow up with. They’ll be able to develop these skills in university’s, colleges, coding courses or online.
I grew up prior to the app world. My exposure to computing during highschool was word, excel, access and once we used PowerPoint. Nothings changed, people are only taught what the teachers know.
I started from a similar background in school. Learning from books in the library and coding on a sheet of paper. Opportunities to get that in a real computer was hard to come by. Some teachers helped by pitching in to get me a few hours in the school lab. Those who like it start learning well before the resources become available. You don’t need to wait till UG to gain those skills.
That said, how often do you see kids these days using a real general purpose computer suitable for coding? Like a desktop or laptop? Not phones, Chromebooks or tablets. In fact, it’s bewildering these days to see programming tutorials start with a statement saying that you need such a device. It was a given, back in the day. And the other stories here don’t paint a good picture.
It’s probably the same amount as before. More phones and tablets haven’t had a big effect on the amount of general purpose computers. There’s devices today like raspberry pi and Arduino that fill the same niche as older general-purpose computers.
Your assume things are different and must be worse. This is a take old as time. Socrates complained about the youth no longer taking the studies as serious as his generation did. The world would have fallen into complete chaos if it were ever true. It’s the conservative myth that things were better and can only get worse.
These kids accessing websites that tell you that a general purpose computer is needed, would have to rely on textbooks and magazines to get the same information in the past. A much bigger barrier, even identifying which ones you need.
AI for the heavy lifting, some poor overworked freelancer overseas fixes issues and refines, and then maybe, mayyyybe a domestic review team of senior coders for pen/security testing.
Ugh. You’re probably right. Finally all those idiots who come up to me going “I’ve got a great idea for an app” will actually be able to release their great idea :)
I used to be able to say “ideas are easy, work is hard”. Now we won’t be.
I’m yet to hear anyone saying that chatGPT can navigate the complex series of design decisions needed to create a cohesive app (unless of course, it was trained on something exactly the same). Many people report spending an inordinate amount of time rectifying the mistakes these LLMs make. It sounds like a glorified autofill (I haven’t used them yet). I shudder to think about the future of the software ecosystem if an entire generation is trained to rely entirely on them to create code.
LLM is great for writing code in small snippets. I’ve used it for quickly writing batch files, for instance. I couldn’t be bothered to look up how to format something obscure. So I use an LLM like ChatGPT to do the bulk work, then I just double check what it gave me.
I wouldn’t use it for anything over ~100 lines at a time. Just like with long conversations, it will have a tendency to “lose the plot” and start forgetting things that it said early on. Because as things get added to the conversation it has to parse more and more data. So it’ll start to drift off topic as conversations get longer.
It can also be handy for debugging sections of code. Because programming is just a form of language with strict grammar/diction/spelling rules. And a LLM will be really really good at spotting stupid grammar mistakes. It’ll instantly notice your missing semicolon and point it out to you, which can save you a ton of frustration.
Just like with any tool, how well it works is entirely up to the user. It will likely progress to the point of being able to manage longer code eventually. But right now it’s still incredibly useful as long as you accept its limitations and work within them.
and they’re going to be precisely as nonsensical as those AI articles are
sure, you can get good output from LLMs, but companies are absolutely not going to bother putting in the effort to do so, as not putting in effort is the entire point.
it’s at least nice to know that corporations will enshittify themselves out of existence, while one guy living in a basement will silently release something they poured their soul into and it sells 5 billion copies in the hour
I saw a tweet that said something like “It’s amazing that somehow we were only able to produce a single generation that knows how to properly use computers” and now it lives rent-free in my head.
Meh, maybe 10% of a single generation at most know how to use computers. Technically savvy millenials vastly overestimate how technically savvy other millenials are.
Even if it’s just 10% of millennials, that still feels higher than both the older and younger generations. I’m in my 30s and a lot of people I went to school with can at least do basic things on the computer, since we had computer classes in primary (elementary) school and high school.
I think there was a golden 20 year era for learning basic computing. If you were a kid somewhere between 1985 and 2005 you had to figure out some slightly more technical things to use a computer. I’m late Gen X and so was exposed early on to the Commodore 64 and MS-DOS, but kids working with Windows 3, 95 and 98 would have developed similar skills.
Eegh, even in high school (thirty-something Millennial here) I got that. “Woooaaahh, is that code there?!?” “Uhh… it’s an article? It’s in plain English. You know, your own native language? There’s even a class at this school called that. I know you know this because you were in that class last period. What I’m saying is, I don’t understand how the same language you just read out loud an hour ago suddenly looks like arcana on a computer screen.”
… It’s extra weird because no one ever just happened to go shoulder-surfing when I was actually programming. 🤷
I don’t think the percentage for gen X is much lower. But those people simply engaged with a kind of computer technology in their youth that is irrelevant today, and had to keep up with a lot of new things since then.
I’m a millenial who does tech support in a school and I see this every day. Older people and young kids generally are pretty clueless about doing anything in a computer.
I always thought the generations after the millennials would use a computer as second nature as they would be born when computers were already everywhere. Instead, they are just as useless as boomers.
But millenials always manage the basics. And learn stuff quick when they have too. I doesn’t matter if it’s a teacher or a janitor. It’s a different mindset.
I graduated high school class of 2005 in a random rural high school in North Carolina. Everyone in my graduating class knows how to navigate a file system, ie knows how to find homework.txt in My Documents/Homework, can type an essay in MS Word and could do a simple invoice or something in Excel. I don’t think they even offered programming classes, and I don’t think I met anyone who took CAD drafting or whatever, not until college.
I grew up with windows and it’s sloppy implementation of a lot of things is a big reason why I got into computers because it let me fuck around with things under the hood easily. I remember messing around with the registry to do things that you couldn’t edit in the settings guis.
Have you tried Linux or the BSDs? Having spent a lot of time on Linux and Windows, the former feels like a well oiled machine with many fine tuning screws, while the latter feels like a rusted old trunk that needs a crowbar to get anything done.
I work in a technical field, and the amount of bad work I see is way higher than you’d think. There are companies without anyone competent to do what they claim to do. Astonishingly, they make money at it and frequently don’t get caught. Sometimes they have to hire someone like me to fix their bad work when they do cause themselves actual problems, but that’s much less expensive than hiring qualified people in the first place. That’s probably where we’re headed with ais, and honestly it won’t be much different than things are now, except for the horrible dystopian nature of replacing people with machines. As time goes on they’ll get fed the corrections competent people make to their output and the number of competent people necessary will shrink and shrink, till the work product is good enough that they don’t care to get it corrected. Then there won’t be anyone getting paid to do the job, and because of ais black box nature we will completely lose the knowledge to perform the job in the first place.
Then created a GitHub account to post three separate issues complaining about how the project’s executable is an obvious Trojan, patting themself on the back for keeping the community safe with their expert sleuthing.
In the soap opera General Hospital, Colonel Sanders of KFC makes a guest appearance because someone is trying to kill him to obtain the secret recipe of 11 herbs and spices. He knows Malbolge and is able to disarm the destruct sequence.
programmer_humor
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