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MEGA THREAD - Trump shot but safe, 2 others killed at PA rally

WHAT

  • Former U.S. President Donald J. Trump was shot at a rally in PA.

TRUMPS STATEMENT

“I want to thank The United States Secret Service, and all of Law Enforcement, for their rapid response on the shooting that just took place in Butler, Pennsylvania. Most importantly, I want to extend my condolences to the family of the person at the Rally who was killed, and also to the family of another person that was badly injured. It is incredible that such an act can take place in our Country. Nothing is known at this time about the shooter, who is now dead. I was shot with a bullet that pierced the upper part of my right ear. I knew immediately that something was wrong in that I heard a whizzing sound, shots, and immediately felt the bullet ripping through the skin. Much bleeding took place, so I realized then what was happening. GOD BLESS AMERICA!”

WHAT WE THINK WE KNOW SO FAR

  • gunman is dead
  • Trump "is fine"
  • one attendee is dead
  • another attendee is in critical condition

News Sources

jeffw , (edited )
@jeffw@lemmy.world avatar

Do not advocate or celebrate violence, please. Comments advocating violence will be deleted and bans will be issued.

Also, please avoid promoting conspiracies. Discussing current events is fine but suggesting things like “it’s a false flag” without evidence is spreading a conspiracy.

ABCDE ,

A reminder, he incited people Jan 6th which resulted in deaths.

SleezyDizasta ,

That’s not a justification for more violence, two wrongs don’t make a right. He was wrong for doing what he did and this is wrong as well. This is because political violence in it’s entirety is wrong. Jesus, do people not have principles anymore? Seeing all the supposedly moral people turn into Q anon level conspiracy theorists who condone violence is depressing.

otp ,

two wrongs don’t make a right.

You’re right. But let me tell you all about the sympathy I have for him:

.

That’s about it.

SleezyDizasta ,

I don’t have any sympathy for him either, but that’s still not a reason to abandon my principles and start cheering for political violence

ABCDE ,

Why do you keep saying that when I didn’t?

otp ,

I’m not cheering for political violence

SleezyDizasta ,

I’m not saying that you are, I’m just pointing out that, in general, lack of sympathy doesn’t justify political violence. We’re in agreement here.

goferking0 ,

That’s when you say I will happily read their obituary

SOMETHINGSWRONG ,

Let us take this as a reminder for everyone concerned with their own safety in a fascist state.

Guns wont do shit for you unless you regularly practice your marksmanship and keep your equipment in good condition.

A fascist exercised and practiced marksmanship today, did you, dear reader?

ABCDE ,

I didn’t say it was. You just put those words in my mouth.

retrospectology ,
@retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

Tell me, should we have turned the other cheek during WWII? Two wrongs don’t make a right after all, right?

SleezyDizasta ,

We didn’t join WWII because the Nazis were bad, we joined because Japan attacked Pearl Harbor and then Hitler declared war on the US.

retrospectology ,
@retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

Exactly, should’ve just turned the other cheek, right?

girlfreddy ,
@girlfreddy@lemmy.ca avatar

Really? You don’t realize that the US didn’t join a war that started in 1939 until 1941 when Japan bombed Pearl Harbor … so was only part of the war for less than 4 years?

Wow!

retrospectology ,
@retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

You inferred something about Nazis, and now what you’re saying makes no sense as a response to what I’ve been asking you.

I’ll put it more clearly so you can actually give an answer: When Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, you’re saying we should’ve turned the other cheek?

Pandantic ,
@Pandantic@midwest.social avatar

I think this poster is saying: “since you believe two wrongs don’t make a right, then when Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, the correct thing to do in your view would to turn the other cheek.”

SleezyDizasta ,

No, I’m just pointing out that your comparison is flawed. We didn’t know about the Holocaust until the war was almost over. The Soviets were the first to discover and liberate the camps back in 1944 (too bad they ended up having their own brutal camps) and the Americans liberated the first camp they discovered (Ohrdruf) in April 1945… the war in Europe was over in a month. That’s when the then general Eisenhower ordered the American soldiers to find the other camps, free the captives, and take pictures of everything they came across so Nazi crimes can be thoroughly documented and the American public can be made aware of them.

My point is that we didn’t intervene in the war because of what the Nazis were doing like you seem to imply, we intervened because we got attacked and declared war on.

snooggums , (edited )
@snooggums@midwest.social avatar

We didn’t know about the Holocaust until the war was almost over.

It wasn’t confirmed until the war was nearly over. But even before then we knew the Axis powers were slaughtering people while they conquered Europe.

SleezyDizasta ,

Fair, but the situation is similar to what’s happening to Uyghurs in China right now. We know something is going on there, but it’s not exactly sufficient grounds to invade China and intervene.

snooggums ,
@snooggums@midwest.social avatar

Right, but China hasn’t invaded another country on top of the genocide.

SleezyDizasta ,

I mean one could argue that Tibet is an invaded country, but that’s besides the point. The only way we would realistically intervene is if China decides to either invade an American ally like Taiwan, Japan, or South Korea or if they directly attack and declare war on the US proper. Even then, it would be quite a stretch for us to have soldiers reach western China, but if we did and if our soldiers found camps where people are imprisoned, then we would have a similar reaction to what we saw towards the end of WWII. However, until then, we don’t have sufficient grounds to invade a major world power.

thermal_shock ,

technically two negatives multiplied does.

ByteOnBikes ,

So you’re telling me conservatives will realize this has gone to far and tell everyone to remain calm and peaceful?

SleezyDizasta ,

The reasonable conservatives have already jumped off ship a long time ago and are now mostly either apolitical, independent, disenfranchised Democrat, or still a minority Republican opposing Trump. The only ones left that support Trump are his cult, and they will never see reason. However, we can’t get rid them with violence. It’s like what America tried to do with the Taliban or Israel is trying to do now with Hamas or what Saudi Arabia has tried to do with the Houthis, you can’t use violence to get rid of ideologies. The way to get rid of ideologies is to make them irrelevant. This can happen either by defeating them in democratic elections or using their track records to delegitimatize them or ignoring them or providing better alternatives or whatever. Political violence will only fuel them, and that is something I don’t want to see.

SkyNTP ,

Mhmm. Where exactly do you draw the line regarding use of force as a preventative measure?

SleezyDizasta ,

When it’s used as a means to achieve power in a democracy. Normalizing violence is not okay in general, but especially during democratic elections, and this applies to everybody regardless of who does it.

KillingTimeItself ,

one wrong plus another wrong, generally seems to overthrow most rights throughout the history of man kind.

I’m not sure what to do with this information, but it’s present.

SleezyDizasta ,

If by rights you mean you human rights then normalized widespread violence tends to do that, that’s the whole reason why tyranny isn’t exactly good.

KillingTimeItself , (edited )

if by wrongs you mean human wrongs, then i have no idea what you’re talking about.

SleezyDizasta ,

What?

KillingTimeItself ,

same, you and me both.

SleezyDizasta ,

the word right has different meaning in different contexts, I assumed you were talking about human rights as in the legally protected privileges that are granted to people… idk wtf you’re talking about

KillingTimeItself ,

unless the phrase “two wrongs don’t make a right” is referring to human rights, i was making an extension on that phrase.

HappycamperNZ ,

The death of Hitler, sadam hussein, Bin laden and all the others who threatened the free world disagree.

SLfgb ,

free world

lmao

HappycamperNZ ,

While its not perfect you could easily be alot more oppressed. Democracy dies when people stop fighting for it.

SLfgb ,

The US invaded Iraq under GW Bush on a lie about WMD’s. Killed Saddam and countless Iraqis, including journalists, for nothing. The US invaded Afghanistan rather than negotiate with its ruling power to hand over Bin Laden, then didn’t get their hands on him for another decade even though the US won the war and took over the country from day 1. 20+ years of bloody occupation later you lost the war and the Taliban is back in power. Another pointess war started with deception. Don’t get me started on Vietnam. You guys have some twisted idea of democracy where the ‘Democrats’ don’t even elect their own candidates. Please stop exporting democracy. The world doesn’t want your perverse version. Hitler killed himself btw.

RoboRay ,

The US invaded Afghanistan rather than negotiate with its ruling power to hand over Bin Laden

To be fair, the US did try to negotiate with Afghanistan to extradite Bin Laden and the Taliban refused.

SLfgb ,

The US did not really try to negotiate with the Taliban regime. The US just demanded the Taliban hand them over, then refused a quite reasonable condition to show some evidence that Al Qaeda was responsible for the attack.

At a news conference in Islamabad, the Taliban ambassador said he was sorry that people had died in the suicide attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon last week, but appealed to the United States not to endanger innocent people in a military retaliation.

“Our position on this is that if America has proof, we are ready for the trial of Osama bin Laden in light of the evidence.”

Conflating a government or regime with an international terrorist organisation is the lie the propaganda told you to accept invading and occupying an impoverished foreign country that had just gone through a famine.

Eatspancakes84 ,

Hitler committted suicide. Any insight in how the other executions actually improved the world?

in4aPenny ,

Millions of fascists were murdered to win WW2, are you saying we should’ve used strong debate language instead?

SleezyDizasta ,

But these are vastly different situations. For the record, all three of these individuals used political violence to achieve political aims, that’s one of the reasons why history doesn’t remember them fondly. The constantly killed people they didn’t like under the justification that it’s for the greater good or self defense. Saddam Hussien did that when he genocided the Kurds in Iraq and the invasion Kuwait, Hitler did that with the Holocaust and the invasion of Europe, and Bin Laden did that with 9/11 and the other terrorist attacks he launched.

Keep in mind, we actually have a justice system in this country that actually works. If we want Trump to face justice it has to go through the justice where he faces trial and is found guilty based on evidence… which has already happened btw for one of his crimes. That’s how justice is handled in a civil democracy. We can’t have randos going on self righteous terrorism crusades killing political candidates they don’t like. If someone tried assassinate Biden, would you being say the same? Probably not, and rightfully so, but the terrorist who tried to kill would be making similar justifications to what you’re trying to make right now. The very idea is wrong.

RampantParanoia2365 ,

Donald Trump intentionally and maliciously mishandled an epidemic and allowed it to turn pandemic for his own stupid and shortsighted political gains. He then intentionally hindered national response.

And then he intentionally incited a literal insurrection. He has absolutely employed political violence.

SleezyDizasta ,

I’m not here to defend him. He’s one of the worst of the presidents in our history. His list of horrendous acts goes far beyond his pandemic response and the insurrection, and it goes was past his presidency too. He’s truly awful. But with that being said, things like assassinations and terrorism should not become normalized as a legitimate way of achieving political means.

crazyminner ,

A wrong makes a right if it prevents many many horrible wrongs in the future.

SleezyDizasta ,

The ends don’t justify the means politics, that’s how you end up with terrorism, tyrannical governments, and atrocities. I’m all for bringing Trump to justice, but it has be done through civil and democratic means via the established criminal justice system. If Trump goes through trial and is found guilty, which has already happened for one of his crimes, then our criminal justice system will punish him accordingly. If the punishments aren’t deemed harsh enough then we reform our punitive laws. We can’t have self righteous assholes going on terrorism crusades assassinating political candidates they don’t like. That’s a sign of a failed state.

ProtecyaTec ,

Tyrannical governments rise from apathy. The final governmental check is its people.

SleezyDizasta ,

True, which is why now is the most important time to condemn political violence, get people politically active, and vote to keep the fascist wannabes out of power.

SLfgb ,

Ikr!

DoucheBagMcSwag ,

This shit was never here before because it’s likely CYA mode for Lemmy because feds could come sniffing here if copycat incidents occur.

KillingTimeItself ,

bro the feds are already sniffing lemmy you think they arent?

They’re sniffing lemmy just like their sniffing literally every other social media platform right now.

anindefinitearticle ,

There is a difference between background-level bulk sniffing and someone-here-maybe-incited-violence targeted sniffing. The former is data collection, which is passive in the form practiced by “the feds”. The latter is data connection, putting effort into connecting a subset of the data that has been collected to form a story. Data connections need a framing, a nucleation seed, an impetus for why the feds might think such a connection is interesting or relevant or worth adding to their story about a larger incident. Collecting data is cheap and done in bulk, partly because it can be done passively and partly because the US govt paid a lot of money on storage and collection mechanisms. Connecting data is something that requires a lot more time, effort, patience, and vetting to make sure you are doing it right.

Or you can give the job to generative AI and hope it doesn’t hallucinate that someone innocent is guilty; with a large enough data pool (ie the internet, reality, what-have-you) it’s possible to select a misleading subset to support whatever hallucination you want.

It’s easy to do wrong, which is exactly why you don’t want the feds sniffing around. Especially now that they have the tools to automate doing it wrong, and might not know how to use them yet.

KillingTimeItself ,

yeah obviously, but it’s all the same at the end of the day. And they definitely have people actively sniffing around social media posts surrounding this at the moment.

this_1_is_mine ,

Is it not actually called the fed…averse…

jeffw ,
@jeffw@lemmy.world avatar

Oh so that’s why my official Lemmy moderator paycheck comes from the FBI?

(This is a joke, we are not paid)

KillingTimeItself ,

the M stands for Money :)

KillingTimeItself ,

fed i verse.

Federal investigation universe. Checkmate.

goferking0 ,

Or all the domestic violence

queue ,
@queue@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Violence demands self defense. Today was an act to try and save everyone.

kylie_kraft ,

And instead we got a guarantee of actual fascism in America. This was a stupid, selfish move.

queue ,
@queue@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Better than keeping quiet and hoping it gets better.

this_1_is_mine ,

deleted_by_moderator

    •
    mp3 ,
    @mp3@lemmy.ca avatar

    Now a single deranged person forced that path in history instead of letting democracy runs its course.

    whoreticulture ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    gedaliyah ,
    @gedaliyah@lemmy.world avatar

    The post in question was removed for Celebrating Violence. Please note previous user comment for context.

    whoreticulture ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    gedaliyah ,
    @gedaliyah@lemmy.world avatar

    The comment in question was removed for celebrating and advocating violence, which violates lemmy.world Server Terms of Service

    timewarp ,
    @timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

    How many deaths did it result in? Cause there is only one death on Jan 6 that has ever been attributed to Jan 6.

    I don’t disagree that he incited the insurrection, but making false claims doesn’t help show that the left is the party of honesty.

    lolcatnip ,

    The left isn’t even a party, genius.

    ABCDE ,

    The left, who? What party?

    factcheck.org/…/how-many-died-as-a-result-of-capi…

    Babbitt plus suicides, and other “natural” deaths.

    On March 7, the District of Columbia’s Police and Firefighters’ Retirement and Relief Board declared that Metropolitan Police Officer Jeffrey Smith’s suicide in the days after the Jan. 6 riot was a line-of-duty death. The board concluded “that Officer Smith sustained a personal injury on January 6, 2021, while performing his duties and that his injury was the sole and direct cause of his death.

    retrospectology ,
    @retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

    Why are you pretending like right-wing violence isn’t the literal leading domestic security threat?

    Have you been living under a rock since 2016?

    AbidanYre ,

    2016? It’s been since at least the 90s.

    retrospectology ,
    @retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

    Well, yeah, I mean, we can go back a hundred years, conservatives will always be pushing violence and division whatever era you look at since they can’t hold power without it, I mostly mean it’s come out fully into the open since 2016. The mask dropped off completely and they’re no longer even pretending to be anything but the Confederacy 2.0.

    JJROKCZ ,

    Hey numbnuts, America doesn’t have a left and it’s the MAGA fascists that are the problem here

    ByteOnBikes ,

    That’s the wild thing.

    This is a “Oh no what will Cheeto say to start a riot?”

    aStonedSanta ,

    Two wrongs do not make a right though.

    Cryophilia ,

    Ehhhh

    Bear_pile ,

    But 3 rights make a left

    Xtallll ,
    @Xtallll@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    But 1 click on a windage knob would have.

    daltotron ,

    This is funnier retrospectively because apparently this fucking dumbass wasn’t even using an optic. insanity

    Ensign_Crab ,

    And his cult still defends the insurrectionists.

    CileTheSane ,
    @CileTheSane@lemmy.ca avatar

    Unless it’s more convenient to call them Antifa.

    DoucheBagMcSwag ,

    Didn’t know this was the “othe r/ place” now…but… Okay.

    barkingspiders ,

    This community can be whatever it wants to be. If you want to advocate for violence you are free to do that elsewhere in the fediverse. Just not here.

    2484345508 ,

    Talk shit get shot.

    Wilzax ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    SLfgb ,

    How do you spread a conspiracy? I think you mean speculation.

    orcrist ,

    My friend, you know exactly what they mean. Don’t push a “well maybe somebody set it up because …” theory unless you have facts to back it up.

    SLfgb ,

    I take issue with inaccurate language. This is how trains crash. A conspiracy is where 2 or more people plan something in secret. A conspiracy theory is where an outsider speculates about the nature of such plans. Also, without wanting to speculate myself, logically it was either a lone actor or a group conspiring, since it clearly wasn’t publicised in advance. I personally doubt it was some grand conspiracy.

    Wilzax ,

    Obviously someone set this up, bullets don’t just appear out of nowhere. It may have just been the gunman who acted entirely alone. We have no evidence that anyone worked with the gunman but what’s that saying about the absence of evidence?

    echodot ,

    Yeah but there’s also no evidence that this was anything other than a single person acting on their own. Most loan shooters are actually loners.

    jeffw ,
    @jeffw@lemmy.world avatar

    The issue is the volume of comments about this being faked entirely or a false flag.

    orcrist ,

    You can’t use the English language in an openly misleading fashion and expect that people are going to go along with it, not in a situation like this. The expression “someone set this up” clearly implies the existence of a second person.

    What made you think that another person is involved? Nothing. If we were to look at historical evidence, we would find that a lot of these situations are done by so-called lone wolf attackers. So if we’re going to blindly speculate, we should at least be consistent with historical evidence, and we should certainly speak unambiguously.

    afraid_of_zombies ,

    I would like facts that back up you claim to know what your “friend” was thinking

    HappycamperNZ ,

    I know you have to say this, but holy shit do I disagree.

    This person advocated significant violence and contributed to the deaths and loss of human rights of thousands. A good whack of the world would turn up hungover to work tomorrow after celebrating only a few inches over.

    Drewelite ,

    No better fuel for an extremist ideology then having a martyr. Trump isn’t the problem, it’s the millions who listen to him.

    echodot ,

    The best thing Trump could do is just die of natural causes after a long illness, so everyone can see his death coming and get used to the idea, and with no focusing point his merry band of lunatics dissolve back into the etha. They have always existed, but Trump acts as a catalyst to get them all worked up.

    JustARaccoon ,

    People would still scream bloody conspiracy, “it wasn’t old age, he was poisoned!”

    Draedron ,

    Trump is the problem since he is the leader of the cult. Without him they dont know who to follow. If Hitler had been assassinated in one the many attemps there might have still been a WW2 but depending on how early on he was assassinated millions of people would not have been killed in concentration camps. This would have been early enough to prevent much damage Trump will do. Better would have been 2016 but that didnt happen sadly.

    Carrolade ,

    Everyone is forgetting Ron De Santis candidacy. Trump isn’t even gone yet and another guy already tried to rise to lead MAGA.

    I fully know its pleasant to fantasize about easy solutions to difficult problems, but the world isn’t that simple.

    JJROKCZ ,

    Trump is absolutely the problem when he’s the mouthpiece of American fascism. Why are we pretending his death would be bad? We’re a couple years from having concentration camps in the US if he wins and everyone’s wringing their hands over this attempt at saving millions of lives by taking one.

    Yea it might cause a civil war, that looks unavoidable at this point anyway. I’d rather civil war than concentration camps

    Drewelite ,

    They’re still waving the Confederate flag. What makes you think bullets will kill this ideology in round 2?

    snooggums ,
    @snooggums@midwest.social avatar

    It would silence one of the most successful voices and hamper the movement, not kill the ideology itself.

    Drewelite ,

    And how do you kill the ideology? By having the most successful voice of it ultimately accomplish nothing and die as a sad old man.

    There’s a reason his rhetoric has been: “The election was stolen!” Because that feeling is powerful, that they were right on the cusp of doing something great, if only the enemy hadn’t poisoned it. It’s got the right mix of victimization and hope that really motivates a movement. You’ll get that 10x now that he’s victimized. And you’d get it 20x if he’s martyred.

    snooggums ,
    @snooggums@midwest.social avatar

    You can’t kill any ideology.

    Nazis are still around.

    Confederate apologists are still around.

    The only effective end to the tyrrany of their ideology when it had enough momentum wasn’t strong words and voting. MAGA is about three small steps from turning the US into a literal fascist state.

    The only thing that holds authoritarian regimes like the MAGA crowd together are narcissists like Trump. They would collapse without someone as good at stoking their anger, and he really is the only one that is personally revered by the MAGA crowd. Sure, other grifters make money and get ciews, but nobody cares when the other grifters like Alex Jones face some justice.

    Drewelite ,

    He’s the only one because he’s still around. If he died yesterday we’d have someone new leading the charge by election time.

    You’ve specifically pointed out ideologies that weren’t allowed to die because of how oppressed they were. I’m not suggesting we shouldn’t have fought the Nazis, but victory inherently creates an oppressed underdog that people love to rally around.

    The ideologies that die are the ones that fail on their own and people lose faith in. Think monarchies, feudalism, mercantilism, the OG version of Communism, colonialism, etc… So ideally we won’t want to use force if at all possible. Let them lose election after election until they realize they’ve alienated too many people to ever be successful.

    snooggums ,
    @snooggums@midwest.social avatar

    He’s the only one because he’s still around. If he died yesterday we’d have someone new leading the charge by election time.

    He was the only one to get the MAGA movement rolling, there isn’t anyone waiting in the wings to take his spot.

    Drewelite ,

    Ron DeSantis already tried. He only failed because Trump is still around. The GOP learned that they need to wait for him to leave the scene before they try again.

    Cuttlefish1111 , (edited )

    We can educate and shame a population for voicing their support for said fascism. In fact it was working pretty well until Trump made it ok to be a bigot publicly again. That’s what’s the whole MAGA thing is about

    OccamsRazer ,

    Concentration camps? Do you actually believe that or have it based on anything?

    whoreticulture ,

    They don’t have to say that.

    Emmie ,

    Lemmy users when they can’t advocate violence:

    young_guy_straining.jpg

    Draedron ,

    Advocating for violence to prevent a fascist from abolishing the democracy is the only acceptable violence. Sometimes a democracy has to be protected violently if it is too weak to protect itself. Trump allies always say its why they have the second amendment. Now that it is used against them they cry about it.

    Emmie , (edited )

    Violence is rarely good for anything as we have seen it just now. It would be better even if this guy shot at Biden that’s how counterproductive it is.

    Modern problems aren’t solved with blood but with marketing. You cannot kill an idea but you can ridicule it

    You cannot just eradicate everyone who opposes you. China tried, Soviets too. Now they have something vastly better - troll farms.

    Riccosuave ,
    @Riccosuave@lemmy.world avatar

    Modern problems aren’t solved with blood but with marketing.

    Tell that to the Ukrainians and the Palestinians. I know you want this to be the case, but you couldn’t be more wrong if you tried.

    Emmie ,

    In both cases they didn’t solve anything and only made things worse for themselves

    Riccosuave ,
    @Riccosuave@lemmy.world avatar

    You’re right, better to allow a violent oppressor to slowly eradicate your people than attempt to free or defend yourself by whatever means necessary…

    Emmie , (edited )

    Eh I think you guys see what you want to see in my comment. I was talking about Russia. putin attacked Ukraine, it was insane in any case and what did he got out of it really?

    The violence on Ukraine was just plain stupid.

    I am kinda surprised and amused you take me for some pacifist goodie two shoes, other cheek blah blah. funny from my pov. Idk how you extracted that from my comment, I bet you will now continue to argue with something that doesn’t exist. My congratulations

    Daxtron2 ,

    Because you replied to a comment about ukrainians and Palestinians and said it accomplished nothing.

    Emmie ,

    I wish I could continue this but I am hella stoned now. I am glad or sorry it happend

    Emmie ,

    I am actually almost flying now

    Daxtron2 ,

    Lmao enjoy your high bud.

    shiroininja ,

    Appeasement of an aggressor never works. History has taught this over and over and over again. We still haven’t learned I see. I’m mainly talking about Ukraine. Palestine is a lot more complex.

    Evil_incarnate ,

    Not sure what you mean, but Ukraine and Zelensky have been marketing themselves all over the place. They need all the help they can get, and they are doing whatever they can to boost support. So far pootin hasn’t achieved his goals so it’s working.

    Wxnzxn ,
    @Wxnzxn@lemmy.ml avatar

    Your last point is actually not a bad analysis - but it is missing that the ones operating their propaganda and troll farms already also control the violence monopoly. And both entities also use violence where they deem it practical.

    Emmie ,

    Lol how kind of you, thank you I guess

    the_crotch ,

    Everybody thinks their form of violence is the only acceptable violence.

    NoSpiritAnimal ,
    @NoSpiritAnimal@lemmy.world avatar

    The paradox of tolerance is only a paradox if you don’t believe in the social contract.

    Beliefs that violate the social contract deserve no protection under it.

    Draedron ,

    Why not? Isnt that what americans claim the second amendment is for?Prevent fascism?

    pachrist ,

    Sic semper tyrannis.

    irotsoma ,
    @irotsoma@lemmy.world avatar

    Communism, not Fascism, or to protect workers’ rights if you go back far enough. We only got involved in fighting fascism because we were drawn into the war, otherwise it’s never been that big of an issue to Americans and many schools aren’t even allowed to teach about it anymore because “kids shouldn’t have to feel bad about something like that” or whatever excuses the far right is currently using to prevent their schools from teaching about Anne Frank, concentration camps, slavery, anything else they want to implement themselves.

    aniki ,

    All rights are won through violence, child. Bans on here means less than the nothing platitudes you utter

    whoreticulture ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    aniki ,

    See how effective bans on the fediverse are?

    Worthless powertripping mods getting off on the tiny bit of power they have on an irrelevant corner of the internet.

    Tale as old as time.

    All rights are won through violence.

    gedaliyah ,
    @gedaliyah@lemmy.world avatar

    In this context, the comment appears to be advocating specific violence.

    Please do not repost removed comments. You can link to the comment or mod log if there is a question about a specific moderation decision.

    p5yk0t1km1r4ge ,
    @p5yk0t1km1r4ge@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    whoreticulture ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    p5yk0t1km1r4ge , (edited )
    @p5yk0t1km1r4ge@lemmy.world avatar

    I’m still here I see. Here’s the precious source since I’m full of shit.

    politico.com/…/leader-of-the-pro-trump-project-20…

    NEW YORK — The leader of a conservative think tank orchestrating plans for a massive overhaul of the federal government in the event of a Republican presidential win said that the country is in the midst of a “second American Revolution” that will be bloodless “if the left allows it to be.”

    Why, exactly, should we simply lie over and do nothing? How is calling for violence over this bad?

    whoreticulture ,

    He said Monday’s decision — which gives presidents broad immunity from prosecution — is “vital” to ensure a president won’t have to “second guess, triple guess every decision they’re making in their official capacity.”

    😬😬😬

    Yeah, last thing I want is for the president to have to think through their decisions.

    Blackbeard ,
    @Blackbeard@lemmy.world avatar

    Original comment was removed for violating Lemmy’s content policy, and subsequent comment was removed for reposting the original.

    whoreticulture ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    gedaliyah ,
    @gedaliyah@lemmy.world avatar

    The post in question was removed for advocating violence. The mod log is public, including the original content, so it is not necessary to repost a removed comment for transparency.

    whoreticulture ,

    “no actual discussion allowed” got it

    jeffw ,
    @jeffw@lemmy.world avatar

    If the only way you can discuss an assassination is by advocating for additional violence and pushing lies, then I guess not?

    whoreticulture ,

    You are limiting discussion to centrist viewpoints, centrism caters towards permissive attitudes towards fascism. You know this.

    whoreticulture ,

    “hey guys don’t politicize an attempted political assassination”

    jeffw ,
    @jeffw@lemmy.world avatar

    Not really what I said at all. “Hey guys, don’t make stuff up, please rely on credible sources, and don’t advocate for violence”.

    Or, in other words: follow the rules we’ve always had in place

    whoreticulture ,

    Advocating for, or not advocating for, violence is a political stance. Many people defend Israel’s ongoing genocide and are not blocked from doing so. That doesn’t feel like the rules being consistently enforced. The people speculating on whether or not this is staged have access to the same information as everyone else, and in the spirit of true discourse, if it was seen to be false you could figure that out by discussion rather than censorship.

    Blackbeard ,
    @Blackbeard@lemmy.world avatar

    If you have evidence that it was staged, feel free to share it. If you don’t, then we ask that you not speculate. It’s no different than any other claim for which we’d require a basic amount of credible substantiation.

    whoreticulture ,

    I don’t personally think it was staged, but be honest … it’s not like you delete every single comment that doesn’t have sources …

    Blackbeard ,
    @Blackbeard@lemmy.world avatar

    We remove comments that make objectively false claims, especially when they involve life or death situations. Covid misinformation is a good example.

    whoreticulture ,

    Speculating on an event that has already occured is not a “life or death situation” in the way spreading information that discourages the use of life-saving vaccines is.

    Blackbeard ,
    @Blackbeard@lemmy.world avatar

    Given the state of American discourse right now, I’m going to hard disagree with you there.

    whoreticulture ,

    So you’re making moderation policy based on an assumption that people who have been exposed to the idea that the shooting may have been staged are more likely to incite violence than people who haven’t been? You don’t have source for that stance do you? One could argue that believing it is a failed assassination attempt would also incite people to violence. If a comment in particular calls for violence, thats one thing, but what you’re saying is not logical.

    Blackbeard ,
    @Blackbeard@lemmy.world avatar

    No, we are not. Our sidebar rules are posted and have not changed, nor have the rules of Lemmy.

    whoreticulture ,

    You said you are restricting discussion on whether the assassination was staged because it is a life or death situation. You have not provided compelling evidence that one form of speculation is more or less “life or death” than another.

    Blackbeard , (edited )
    @Blackbeard@lemmy.world avatar

    No, we did not. We are not restricting discussion (those are your words) because this is a life and death situation. We are requiring sources for life or death claims, and we are removing purely speculative and baseless assertions of fact, because this is a life and death situation.

    whoreticulture ,

    We are not restricting discussion (those are your words) because this is a life and death situation.

    we are removing purely speculative and baseless assertions of fact, because this is a life and death situation.

    So one, like I said, it’s not really a life and death situation. And secondly, in the immediate aftermath of an event, practically everything is speculation.

    Blackbeard ,
    @Blackbeard@lemmy.world avatar
    1. Hard disagree.
    2. Not everything, no.
    whoreticulture ,

    So you’re kind of just imposing your opinion about the “life or death” situation thing. I see tons of posts advocating trans-medicalist views, that I would consider a life or death situation… but the comments removed are the ones using appropriately harsh language to call them out.

    And yes, esp w the recent news that the shooter was a conservative. It makes sense to speculate.

    p5yk0t1km1r4ge ,
    @p5yk0t1km1r4ge@lemmy.world avatar

    Here’s your source.

    politico.com/…/leader-of-the-pro-trump-project-20…

    NEW YORK — The leader of a conservative think tank orchestrating plans for a massive overhaul of the federal government in the event of a Republican presidential win said that the country is in the midst of a “second American Revolution” that will be bloodless “if the left allows it to be.”

    It’s INSANE to me that you’d suggest we do nothing or even promote political violence over this.

    Blackbeard ,
    @Blackbeard@lemmy.world avatar

    The Lemmy.World content policy prohibits advocacy of violence. We are enforcing the rules of Lemmy, not our own personal preferences. If you prefer an instance without such limitations, you are free to engage with another instance.

    girlfreddy , (edited )
    @girlfreddy@lemmy.ca avatar

    Yet you seem to think acting like a petulant child is appropriate. Some of us have had our hands slapped because we crossed a line. But you can still act like an adult when it happens.

    If you don’t like the rules, fine. Then go elsewhere.

    p5yk0t1km1r4ge ,
    @p5yk0t1km1r4ge@lemmy.world avatar

    …its nice to see how complacent and naive we have all become. Pathetic. This country deserves what’s coming if that’s the mind-set.

    afraid_of_zombies ,

    The virus was studied by multiple different healthcare agencies across multiple different continents.

    This is not comparable to the performance yesterday.

    Blackbeard ,
    @Blackbeard@lemmy.world avatar

    I didn’t compare a vaccine to an assassination attempt.

    afraid_of_zombies , (edited )

    Yes you personally did not compare the vaccine to the performance yesterday, that doesn’t mean other members of the mod team in this thread did not.

    Edit: oh my bad you did, sorry about that.

    “Covid misinformation is a good example.”

    whoreticulture ,

    Should I start reporting every comment that doesn’t have sources? 😂😂

    jeffw ,
    @jeffw@lemmy.world avatar

    If someone has made a claim that runs counter to commonly acknowledged information, please report it. If you need a few examples…

    You would need a source to say:

    • “the new COVID vaccine is dangerous because it has killed people”
    • “Donald Trump faked an attack on his life”
    • “this new medical treatment is extremely effective”

    You would NOT need a source to say:

    • “Donald Trump was subject of an assassination attempt” (commonly known and widely speculated to be an assassination attempt)
    • A personal preference like “Chocolate cake is the best kind of cake”
    whoreticulture ,

    “widely speculated” … like I said, I don’t think it was staged, but it’s clear that most of what is being stated the day after this event is speculation.

    afraid_of_zombies ,

    en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

    jeffw ,
    @jeffw@lemmy.world avatar

    Saying that someone who shot a president is likely an assassination attempt is not a logical fallacy. There are pretty much 2 possibilities: targeted attack and random acts of violence. The fact that he seemed to be aiming at Trump suggests the former.

    afraid_of_zombies ,

    There are pretty much 2 possibilities:

    What methods did you use to eliminate a false flag operation?

    jeffw ,
    @jeffw@lemmy.world avatar

    Common sense and the ability to view photographic evidence

    afraid_of_zombies ,

    common sense

    Is not a shield

    Photographic evidence

    May I see the pictures that could not have been faked please?

    afraid_of_zombies ,

    pushing lies

    How did you determine what was true in this situation and what was false? I am curious about your methodology.

    jeffw ,
    @jeffw@lemmy.world avatar

    True: confirmed information. False: unconfirmed information of a speculative nature. Do you see a specific issue you disagree with or are you just trying to argue?

    afraid_of_zombies ,

    You are just moving the problem around via definitions not actually saying what method you used to know exactly what happened yesterday.

    All I asked is how you arrived at the truth. Did you see evidence that the general public didn’t? Because what I am seeing is you all are so absolutely certain you have literally compared it to Covid misinformation. Amazing, a 30 hour news event is so well understood you can compare our knowledge of it to the single most studied virus in human history months after a new variant had appeared.

    It is not unreasonable how you were able to obtain information the rest of us apparently do not have and how you were able to eliminate all other alternatives so quickly.

    Enfors ,
    @Enfors@lemm.ee avatar

    spreading a conspiracy

    I know this is off-topic, but can we please go back to saying “conspiracy theory”? Conspiracy and conspiracy theories are not the same. There are actual conspiracies (a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful) , and there are theories of conspiracies. They should not be confused.

    Malfeasant ,

    Surprised you’re not already banned just for the c-word. I mean, if someone crashes their car through a storefront, I could speculate without evidence that the driver was excessively old, young, drunk, or just plain stupid and it’s left up to the reader to take my comment with a grain of salt, but if I so much as entertain the possibility of this shooting being anything besides what is being reported by official channels, I must be silenced.

    aniki ,

    ALL RIGHTS ARE WON THROUGH VIOLENCE

    Audacious ,

    How do the people get justice for a convicted criminal that’s above the law? Is there a reason why the constitution has an amendment for guns? Why are so many platforms against the constitution and against the need for correct course when apt?

    Stop acting like corpo reddit admins and mods.

    OldWoodFrame ,

    “Convicted criminal” who is “above the law?”

    Seems like he was convicted, thus not above the law.

    You keep him from being president by getting enough people to vote against him, or you accept the will of the people.

    The 2nd Amendment was originally to make sure militias weren’t disarmed, in a time when militias were more relevant. Has nothing to do with political assassination.

    FordBeeblebrox ,

    How about when said political candidate openly calls for violence and murder against his opponents, to the point of asking the Supreme Court if he could assassinate people.

    Maybe the 2nd amendment comes in to play a little? Last I checked we didn’t vote king George off our shores.

    OldWoodFrame ,

    But we did vote Trump out of office, and he left. That’s the difference between Republics and Monarchies.

    FordBeeblebrox ,

    We also voted Gore IN office but whatever.

    Orange Julius has become a cult god and is literally talking about assassinating rivals

    …that’s the difference between republics and monarchies

    Also this has been an oligarchy the whole time anyone who thinks republic is either willfully or unintentionally ignorant

    OldWoodFrame ,

    We did not vote Gore or Hillary into office. They got more popular votes and lost in electoral votes, and only electoral votes count for president. They lost fair and square, in the system we have.

    No the difference between republics and monarchies is not “talking about assassinating rivals.” You can say anything, that is anyone’s right. In the context from above, this difference is why political assassination is not acceptable in a republic. It would be insane to say that political assassination is OK if the person had ever talked about assassinating rivals. The penalty for distasteful speech is not death.

    Audacious ,

    He left after his last stand Jan 6. There is lots of news coverage of that, with many arrested as well. There are plenty of vids of Trump talking about Jan 6 people, not condemning them.

    Also answer one question: What was Trump asking Pence to do on Jan 6?

    OldWoodFrame ,

    Trump was asking Pence to return legally cast electoral votes to the states for reconsideration on false pretenses. Yes obviously bad and we don’t want a president who would do such a thing. But not assassination worthy.

    Audacious ,

    Do you think a convicted criminal should be walking around free?

    OldWoodFrame ,

    While they await sentencing? If a judge allows it, obviously yes. People have lives and jobs, if they might not even get prison time it would be cruel to force them into all the downsides of prison time (lose your job, child care difficulties) and then let them go.

    Trump would be more impacted by his inability to campaign, but we only have one justice system and I don’t want to betray my beliefs on how the justice system works just because I don’t like this guy’s politics.

    Audacious ,

    Most sit in jail until sentencing, and the time spent waiting will be accounted with the sentencing. I say most, because only the king walks around free.

    Also convicted criminals people should not run for president. The corrupted courts made a new law, something they don’t have the power to do, where the criminals can run, explicitly the hitler felon.

    Schadrach ,

    Also convicted criminals people should not run for president. The corrupted courts made a new law, something they don’t have the power to do, where the criminals can run, explicitly the hitler felon.

    No, they didn’t. There’s just nothing that requires a candidate for president not be a convicted felon, other than the willingness of people to vote for them.

    nickwitha_k , (edited )

    Fuck. This is probably not going to lead to good things.

    Carrolade ,

    Agreed. It’s going to further inflame chaos and tensions in the country, it’s going to further radicalize Trump himself into an even nastier man, and it’s going to motivate his base. Even if Trump were to pass away, that base still remains, and we have the risk of a much more intelligent and gifted speaker taking up its leadership.

    100 ,

    people gathering around him ready to pounce and abuse power are more dangerous than he is

    SOMETHINGSWRONG ,

    “Project 2025 is an existential threat to our democracy and it will be the end of the US unless blue wins!”

    “Nooooo not like that it’s not that much of a threat nooo”

    Either it is, or it isn’t, liberals.

    keegomatic ,

    The fuck are you talking about

    Raptor_007 ,

    “SOMETHINGSWRONG” alright, inside your head.

    whoreticulture ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    gedaliyah ,
    @gedaliyah@lemmy.world avatar

    This reply in question was removed for advocating political violence. Along with other similar comments, user was removed from the community

    Soltros ,

    If it were anyone else, almost getting shot should be a wake-up call. “What have I become that this happens? Maybe I need to change how I act, and what I do.” But , no.

    Tryptaminev ,

    There have been many failed and successful assassinations of political leaders or other public people. You think if John Lennon had survived his assassination he should have taken it as a wake-up call and revisit his values and public stances?

    There is many good reasons why Trump should start introspecting. And if he would develop some sort of empathy and decency probably the pain of seeing who he was and is would kill him better than any bullet could.

    But this is because he is Trump. This is not because someone wanted to kill him. All sorts of people want to kill all sorts of people for all sorts of reason.

    blanketswithsmallpox ,

    True, it was always never going to lead to good things. But this will keep it on track to not changing.

    I just hope Trump pusses out when he realizes he and a bunch of supreme court justices are foing to get this for nearly every public appearance for four years if he manages to eek out a win lol. It was said above already.

    Violence demands self defense. Today was an act to try and save everyone.

    UltraGiGaGigantic ,

    The people are so divided, and this makes it worse.

    PugJesus ,

    I didn’t need this fucking stress on top of everything else. I only hope that the poll bump he’ll get for this is short-lived.

    Riccosuave ,
    @Riccosuave@lemmy.world avatar

    He is going to win. We’ve already been over this. Maybe now you can start the process of coming to terms with what that actually means.

    PugJesus ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    Riccosuave ,
    @Riccosuave@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    PugJesus ,

    Your cognitive dissonance is strong,

    … do you even know what that term means?

    Riccosuave ,
    @Riccosuave@lemmy.world avatar

    Yes, I do. Which is precisely how I know you are engaged in that behavior now. It is a very hard thing to accept that you are living in a country that is going to usher in fascism with thunderous applause. But regardless of how you feel about it, that is what is happening before your very eyes. It is important to be objective about that so you are able to evaluate what you can do to fight back once that becomes necessary.

    PugJesus ,

    . It is a very hard thing to accept that you are living in a country that is going to usher in fascism with thunderous applause.

    Okay, so you don’t actually know, you just think it means ‘not accepting (what you see as) reality’. Thanks for confirming.

    Cognitive dissonance is described as the mental disturbance people feel when their beliefs and actions are inconsistent and contradictory

    Riccosuave ,
    @Riccosuave@lemmy.world avatar

    Here, I’ll give you an example you can perhaps identify with. You spent multiple comments strawmaning my arguments, putting words in my mouth, and gaslighting me for saying Biden had absolutely no chance of victory two days ago.

    You then attempted to suggest that I did not care about political violence, and that I was uneducated about important modern historical events in an attempt to delegitimize my points about removing Biden as the nominee.

    This is you today:
    https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/e504226c-74f2-4a47-85dd-bc331c7cd2ec.jpeg

    PugJesus ,

    This might be shocking to you, but when people comment on a vital event, it is usually because the vital event has caused some form of important change worth discussing. Radical, I know. But nice projection.

    Riccosuave ,
    @Riccosuave@lemmy.world avatar

    You will employ whatever coping mechanisms are at your disposal to accept the reality you are in. The only difference between us is that I am just a little further along in the process.

    PugJesus ,

    Good for you.

    whoreticulture ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    Riccosuave ,
    @Riccosuave@lemmy.world avatar

    I believe the mods were attempting to stop PugJesus and I from engaging in a slap fight, but you see how well that worked out.

    whoreticulture ,

    PugJesus is like the Ur-Liberal (derogatory)

    Riccosuave ,
    @Riccosuave@lemmy.world avatar

    I don’t know what that means, but he is annoying.

    gedaliyah ,
    @gedaliyah@lemmy.world avatar

    The comment in question contained a personal insult against another user and was removed for incivility. The mod log is public.

    Please don’t repost removed comments. You can link to the comment or mod log if you have questions about a particular moderation action. All decisions may be appealed by DMing a mod for additional review.

    whoreticulture ,

    How does one link a specific blocked comment in the mod log? I don’t see any way to do this?

    gedaliyah ,
    @gedaliyah@lemmy.world avatar

    I am not sure that you can link to an individual comment, but you can link to the community mod log or the user mod log depending on the circumstance. Or you can link to the individual comment in the thread, even if it has been removed.

    It is preferred to reach out to a moderator(s) by direct message, in which case you could include a screen image of the mod log along with your question.

    I understand why one may have an interest in asking questions publicly, although it makes is very difficult for mods to respond (unless you tag us). If you are interesting in getting a response, this is perhaps the least efficient way. We are assured to see report, and likely to see a DM in a much more reasonable time.

    whoreticulture ,

    Also, I am not really seeing a personal insult? Criticism of personal dissonance, yeah, but is that an insult?

    whoreticulture ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    gedaliyah ,
    @gedaliyah@lemmy.world avatar

    This comment was removed for incivility (Rule 1)

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    You are not psychic.

    Riccosuave ,
    @Riccosuave@lemmy.world avatar

    My analysis isn’t based on extra-sensory perception. I am able to look at the facts as they are presented from a rational, unemotional perspective. It is how I knew Hillary was going to lose in 2016, and it is how I know Biden is going to lose in 2024.

    otp ,

    Lol…it sounds like you’re saying that you know all of the answers because you don’t use your emotions when you think…haha

    FlyingSquid , (edited )
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    There are no facts presented to you now that can tell you definitively what will happen in November.

    You being correct one time does not make you correct this time.

    Riccosuave ,
    @Riccosuave@lemmy.world avatar

    We shall see.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    No we won’t, because all you are doing is calling heads or tails. You have a 1:2 chance of being right regardless of why you are making your prediction.

    Riccosuave ,
    @Riccosuave@lemmy.world avatar

    Look honestly at the historical context and externalities of the moment you are in, and tell me you think it is a coin toss.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    I think your prediction is a coin toss. It’s based on your emotions, not on evidence.

    LustyArgonianMana ,
    @LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world avatar

    That not how inductive reasoning works. Look into absurdism (philosophy)

    dohpaz42 ,
    @dohpaz42@lemmy.world avatar

    I can appreciate where !Riccosuave is coming from.

    I personally feel that 2008 was the tipping point for a lot of people and we’ve been reeling from it ever since.

    While things may have been bad before, it really does feel like the intensity has increased dramatically ever since Trump was first elected. These people have become emboldened, and no longer keeping themselves in check. Any sense of decorum and decency are things of the past.

    You are welcome to dismiss me as nothing more than an over dramatic doomer, but I have a feeling I’m not the only one who feels this way. It’s not about being right or wrong. It’s about being overwhelmed and mentally drained about being able to do anything positive about it.

    Anecdotally, I would guess this is part of their motivation for the attempted assassination. They were likely so overwhelmed that they felt the only solution was to try to kill Trump.

    And if that’s even remotely true, that’s a fault of society as a whole as much as it is the shooter’s fault.

    One way or the other, we are at a pivotal moment in American history; and I’m not just being dramatic. There is a lot on the line for both sides no matter who wins in November.

    TheFrirish ,

    You’re being down voted but you’re right. This is the absolute nail in the coffin to seal his win. his culties are going to be mobilised more than ever now.

    Riccosuave ,
    @Riccosuave@lemmy.world avatar

    The downvotes are a direct consequence of their fear and denial, which I absolutely understand. However, I feel it is my duty to speak the truth so that people can begin the process of accepting what is coming.

    GiddyGap ,

    This event just shows that anything can happen at any moment. Nothing is a sure thing. Not a Trump win, not a Biden win, and not a win for any other candidate who may run.

    slickgoat ,

    There is something seriously wrong with American politics. Trump is evil - not a word I throw around lightly - but this shooting has all but guaranteed a win for him in November.

    He’s clinched it. He’s going to be King.

    ProtecyaTec ,

    Nobody is changing their vote over this… Like, the Democrats have been entrenched in “Not Trump” since the word GO, blue out numbers red and they know what’s at stake.

    slickgoat ,

    The election is won or lost in the middle, not red or blue. It is the undecided and the ones considering voting who really matters.

    We tend to be the engaged voters who know what we are going to do with certainty. But, you can judge the polls by looking in the mirror.

    ProtecyaTec ,

    There’s no wide middle, who is actually still undecisive in this election? Actual people, IRL I want to meet them. Not some twitter jockeys or media talking heads, not some podcast. Actual voters.

    slickgoat ,

    So you believe that everyone is already decided?

    ProtecyaTec ,

    Probably not every single solitary person, but the majority. I think politics have been too divisive to the point where the middle is too slim to make a difference. These aren’t new political candidates. Nothing has changed.

    slickgoat ,

    So, who’s going to win? And by roughly what degree?

    ProtecyaTec ,

    The Dems are going to win. It’s painfully clear that Trump (and his cabinet members) are unfit to lead and do not have the best interest of our nation’s people. We’ll have to wait til November to what degree that is.

    oxjox ,
    @oxjox@lemmy.ml avatar

    You say that as if all registered voters cast a vote for every election.

    This will, at least, energize the R party to vote in numbers we have yet to see. Meanwhile, you’ve got apathetic D voters who really don’t want Biden to be president. It’s not about changing voters’ votes - our elections are never about that - t’s about the number of people who cast a vote.

    Until now, I’ve been very much in the camp of promoting all the things Biden has done to convince voters he’s still worth supporting. Yesterday’s event changes that. The DNC needs to combat this pending influx of voters with an invigorating candidate.

    ProtecyaTec ,

    …you’ve got apathetic D voters who really don’t want Biden to be president.

    Let’s be real, nobody wants Biden to run again, on either side. That being said, every Democrat knows what’s at stake - and that’s Donald fucking Trump. This situation doesn’t change who DT is, his viewpoints, or his policies. The actual people, the actual voters realize that DT is just a way worse situation.

    It’s not about changing voters’ votes - our elections are never about that - t’s about the number of people who cast a vote.

    This nothingburger of a scene isn’t going to stop some Democrat from voting. At the end of the day, there are more Blue than Red and the Dems are entrenched in not having DT in office. I don’t even live in a big city, a red county even, and everyone I’ve talked to in person understands the stakes.

    Yesterday’s event changes that.

    Why would yesterdays events change your viewpoints on Turmp? How does that change his awful policies and degressive viewpoints? How does that change him being an actual Felon and suspected pedophile?

    dactylotheca ,
    @dactylotheca@suppo.fi avatar

    Saying this will change nothing is just as myopic as saying this’ll guarantee a Trump victory

    ProtecyaTec ,

    There’s no real substance behind the idea that this guarantees a red victory. No Democrat who was against Trump before is going to realistically change their view over Trump over this situation. It doesn’t change who Trump is or what he stands for. If this achieves anything, it will be to incite violence.

    You’ll also take notice many of the accounts parroting this nonsense are not old accounts. Usually, these accounts were just botted to repost news articles or memes and only just recently started commenting. It’s a strange pattern I’m seeing across multiple threads.

    dactylotheca ,
    @dactylotheca@suppo.fi avatar

    I don’t think people mean that D voters will suddenly vote from Trump because somebody tried to murk him, but that it might get sympathy from swing voters. If that’d have any real effect on the outcome is anybody’s guess, but I’d wager it probably won’t matter all that much.

    But yeah, in any case I figure that – like you said – the most “visible” outcome of this will be more political violence from the right.

    ProtecyaTec ,

    sympathy from swing voters

    I would think that the number of actual swing voters is extremely low. The last few years of politics have been very divisive (probably an understatement), more so than anything in my lifetime. At this point, I haven’t heard anyone IRL not have their political compass already pointed. Democrats have been dug in against DT since he announced he was running again. Rs have been dug in for DT since he announced he was running again.

    dactylotheca ,
    @dactylotheca@suppo.fi avatar

    Frankly I’d tend to agree, it doesn’t seem likely there’d be a lot of them exactly because… well, gestures around broadly

    But now that I think about this, even though the effect on swing voters could well be pretty inconsequential, the shooting might well “reactivate” some Republicans who weren’t necessarily going to vote – although I’ve understood that their turnout is often a higher than the Dems’, it’s still not 100%. Now whether that is likely or what the size of the effect could be isn’t something I’m really qualified to speculate on, I’m just a random Yuropean who woke up this morning to find that while I was sleeping somebody apparently tried to murk Trump.

    return2ozma ,
    @return2ozma@lemmy.world avatar

    Chris Hedges’ tweet…

    My thoughts on the assassination attempt on former President Trump:

    The assassination of Trump would not remove the yearning of tens of millions of people, many conditioned by the Christian right, for a cult leader. Most of the leaders of the Christian right have built cult followings of their own. These Christian fascists embraced magical thinking, attacked their enemies as agents of Satan and denounced reality-based science and journalism long before Trump did. Cults are a product of social decay and despair, and our decay and despair are expanding, soon to explode in another financial crisis.

    The efforts by the Democratic Party and much of the press, including CNN and The New York Times, to discredit Trump, as if our problems are embodied in him, are futile. The smug, self-righteousness of this crusade against Trump only contributes to the national reality television show that has replaced journalism and politics. This crusade attempts to reduce a social, economic and political crisis to the personality of Trump. It is accompanied by a refusal to confront and name the corporate forces responsible for our failed democracy. This collusion with the forces of corporate oppression, which have impoverished the working class, fostered endless war, militarized our police, created the largest prison system in the world, licensed corporations to exploit the most vulnerable and transferred wealth upwards into the hands of a billionaire class, neuters the press, Trump’s critics and the Democratic Party.

    Our only hope is to organize the overthrow of the corporate state that vomited up Trump. Our democratic institutions, including the legislative bodies, the courts and the media, are hostage to corporate power. They are no longer democratic. We must, like resistance movements of the past, engage in acts of sustained mass civil disobedience, especially strikes, and non-cooperation. By turning our ire on the corporate state, rather than Trump, we name the true sources of power and abuse. We expose the absurdity of blaming our demise on demonized groups such as undocumented workers, Muslims, African-Americans, Latinos, liberals, feminists, gays and others. We give people an alternative to a bankrupt Democratic Party – whose presidential candidate is in clear cognitive decline – that is a full partner in corporate oppression and cannot be rehabilitated. We make possible the restoration of an open society. If we fail to embrace this militancy, which alone has the ability to destroy cult leaders, we will continue the march toward tyranny.

    source: x.com/ChrisLynnHedges/status/1812526737982726267

    nifty ,
    @nifty@lemmy.world avatar

    Civil disobedience may not be the best way forward. A better approach I think is voting more progressive thinkers into congress and other places of power and authority.

    Remember: countries where the Nordic model is used for social welfare and economic development/growth are thriving, consistently voted high in the happiness index, and also have been rejecting the far right extremism seen else where in Europe

    He’s super point on here

    … The smug, self-righteousness of this crusade against Trump only contributes to the national reality television show that has replaced journalism and politics.

    It is accompanied by a refusal to confront and name the corporate forces responsible for our failed democracy.

    This collusion with the forces of corporate oppression, which have impoverished the working class, fostered endless war, militarized our police, created the largest prison system in the world, licensed corporations to exploit the most vulnerable and transferred wealth upwards into the hands of a billionaire class, neuters the press, Trump’s critics and the Democratic Party.

    ProtecyaTec ,

    A better approach I think is voting more progressive thinkers into congress and other places of power and authority.

    It feels like a long con. The years of eroding the educational budget have finally paid off. It’s going to be an upward battle to bring back logical thinking and media literacy.

    aleph ,
    @aleph@lemm.ee avatar

    A better approach I think is voting more progressive thinkers into congress and other places of power and authority.

    And as we have seen, true progressives have been repeatedly pushed from the ticket in favor of establishment-friendly centrists time and time again. The two-party duopoly won’t allow it.

    SeaJ ,

    The person killed by the shooter, Corey Comperatore, was a 50 year old volunteer firefighter shielding his family from the gunshots.

    reuters.com/…/trump-rally-shooting-victim-identif…

    whoreticulture ,

    Who attended a Trump rally, knowing full well the violence that maga stands for.

    aleph ,
    @aleph@lemm.ee avatar

    He was also, it seems, a scumbag

    https://lemm.ee/api/v3/image_proxy?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.postimg.cc%2Fd3pzD5WP%2FScreenshot-20240714-201819-Firefox-Beta.png

    CileTheSane ,
    @CileTheSane@lemmy.ca avatar

    Trump was not involved in the writing of that statement.

    tigeruppercut ,

    Trump was not involved in the writing of anything in his entire life ever

    FTFY. Pretty sure he’s functionally illiterate.

    CileTheSane ,
    @CileTheSane@lemmy.ca avatar

    You think someone else wrote Covefe?

    tigeruppercut ,

    Nah he can focus for short things, but he’s unable to extract meaning from longer segments of text

    jeffw , (edited )
    @jeffw@lemmy.world avatar

    I did some cyberstalking (someone actually built a whole ass family tree on Ancestry already, which was my source to look up the other info). Just a reminder, please don’t dox or post any publicly identifiable info on here.

    The alleged shooter did donate to a liberal group in 2021, age 17, before he was registered to vote. Rumors of this being another person are likely inaccurate, as the donor has the correct name and zip code listed.

    The alleged shooter is a registered Republican. Some have theorized he did this as a “stop Trump” sort of thing to vote in PA’s closed primaries. His father is a registered libertarian and his mother is a registered democrat. His sister is a registered libertarian.

    I imagine we will have more info on his background and motivation in the coming days and weeks. It’s possible that he could have any kind of political alignment. A lot of young men can get radicalized between 17 and 20.

    roguetrick ,

    It’s just as possible he started having major depression and hearing voices with that age range.

    jeffw ,
    @jeffw@lemmy.world avatar

    Very true, it’s a pretty typical age for schizophrenia to develop in men

    Dorkyd68 ,

    I just man… ya know like… don’t fucking care anymore, I just dont

    Etterra ,

    I look forward to finding out what the shooters motivations are. I don’t personally expect it to be a left-wing partisan but something else, though I’ll refrain from speculating here. Let’s just say that there current Republican party tends to infight - to try and eat itself any time it senses weakness or deviance from the cult’s marching orders.

    Once law enforcement announced the shooter’s identity and the world gets to dig into his social media and communications data… Well I guess we shall see.

    SeaJ , (edited )

    It’s a 20 year old white guy who was a registered Republican according to the NY Post. But he also gave $15 to The Progressive Turnout Project. According to reports, his dad bought him the rifle a few weeks ago.

    www.usatoday.com/story/news/…/74397935007/

    Etterra ,

    Yep. Not exactly what I was expecting, but pretty damn close. I had suspected an unstable, disillusioned red hat, and I was not disappointed.

    PugJesus ,

    Alright, let’s get it out ahead of time, since I’m already seeing this:

    It’s probably not staged. Trump reacts quickly - the fuck kind of timing you think that bloated potato has? To lift his hand to his ear just as the gunshot rings out? And the idea that the shooter grazed him on purpose is, likewise, absurd. The kind of risk that would entail, to just nick his ear?

    Whether the shooter was insane or politically motivated, this is a real event.

    AmbiguousProps ,

    Plus, the rally attendee being confirmed dead. Someone shot at him, 100%.

    JonsJava OP ,
    @JonsJava@lemmy.world avatar

    Thanks. Added your link and context to the mega thread

    Jimmyeatsausage , (edited )

    Do we know yet whether the would-be assassin or Secret Service hit the bystander? I was driving when it happened and am still getting up to speed

    Edit/update: It seems the gunman was on a rooftop, not in the crowd, so, no idea what happened. I have a few theories, but I’m not gonna risk starting rumors.

    AbouBenAdhem ,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    Jimmyeatsausage ,

    That was one of my theories, too, but I didn’t want to be the first to say it. It’d be a heavy load to carry, knowing you shot an innocent person like that.

    PM_Your_Nudes_Please ,

    I mean, if you’re so far gone that you’re attempting to assassinate a political figure, you’re probably okay with a little collateral damage. Especially if that collateral is a supporter of said politician.

    Jimmyeatsausage ,

    I was talking about if it had been a member of the Secret Service that misidentified the guy as the shooter

    chiliedogg ,

    Or the shooter fired multiple shots and some went into the crowd.

    KillingTimeItself ,

    if the shooters on a rooftop, and firing down on trump, it’s absolutely possible it could catch someone on it’s way down, either through ricochet or something.

    Though like you said, this can also be due to SS reaction as well.

    NegativeLookBehind ,
    @NegativeLookBehind@lemmy.world avatar

    Hitlers Trumps SS

    foggy ,

    Same. And same with Biden. When asked, he said “I have an opinion but we’ll wait for the facts to come out.”

    abbadon420 ,

    You’re still getting up to speed? You might want to buy a new car, mate.

    kescusay ,
    @kescusay@lemmy.world avatar

    Thank you. And fuck the idiots spouting off with the “staged” nonsense. The time to believe something is staged is when you have evidence that it was.

    Botzo ,

    Oh, it’s all tongue-in-cheek, and yet: quid pro quo.

    lennybird ,
    @lennybird@lemmy.world avatar

    People are obviously on high alert, considering how far Trump is willing to go given Jan 6th. From the Reichstag fire to the Russian apartment bombings, such events manufactured or actual have profound impact on public perception and action. Naomi Klein’s (not to be confused with the nut job Naomi Wolf) The Shock Doctrine details this well.

    No sign this was a false flag, but holy fuck does it have terrible implications.

    KillingTimeItself ,

    i mean honestly, it’s scary, but it’s also not a good time to be an american right now, from the immunity rulling to the jan 6th delays, and all the other bullshit going on, things seem to be getting vastly more interesting now than they were just a few months ago.

    Tikiporch ,

    Trump’s entire persona is built on lies, it shouldn’t be a surprise that it’s many people’s first thought.

    kescusay ,
    @kescusay@lemmy.world avatar

    But it shouldn’t be. He shows no signs - cognitively speaking - of being capable of putting something like this together as a stage-managed event, and all of his past stage-managed events have been shitshows because he micromanages everything and he’s incompetent.

    AbouBenAdhem , (edited )

    I don’t doubt the shooter was genuinely trying to kill him. But I also think there are an unprecedented number of Republicans and Democrats who would be secretly relieved if their own party’s candidate were assassinated.

    gibmiser ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    snooggums ,
    @snooggums@midwest.social avatar

    Gotta succeed at one before going for even Stevens.

    Scubus ,

    Two for the price of one! Nah real talk biden sucks but he doesn’t deserve to get assassinated.

    Wxnzxn ,
    @Wxnzxn@lemmy.ml avatar

    It’s a very common gut reaction to assume something like this has to be “staged”, I said it in the other thread in some discussions: It’s understandable to have it as this feeling. But everyone who feels that way: take a breath, remember the world is much more chaotic and much less controlled than you think, you don’t have to think of yourself as stupid for thinking it, but wait for more information to come out and be ready to give it up then.

    Reacting properly to this new reality is much more important, than trying to adjust reality to fit an emotion. It’s human to do that, react instinctively in a first gut reaction, but it is also human to be able to let go of that.

    meco03211 , (edited )

    In the spirit of not promoting violence, I’d like to promote the alternative of the Alex Jones treatment. Gaslight the fucker and set a conspiracy in motion to hound him the rest of his days.

    foggy ,

    I am hoping it results in visible signs of PTSD. That would be a modern Tar & Feathering.

    PoopDelivery ,

    I agree. We’re all just processing this and should probably take a break and come back when there is more info and we can think critically. That said, this is very scary, like, I feel like my physical safety is at risk because of this. So, not knowing what others are going through, I’m going to have some compassion for any initial reactions. People are having these same discussions face to face right now but not everyone can do that and may need to.

    KillingTimeItself ,

    the way i like to look at it, is that it doesn’t matter whether it was staged or not, it still happened. People still died, people still evacuated, trump still got shot, none of that changes.

    If it does, you’re doing a conspiracy theory, and you should stop.

    Tryptaminev ,

    I think it absolutely does matter for the political conclusions.

    But at the very least it is far to early to get into these conspiracies, even if the events had unfolded very differently like the bullets not hitting anywhere close.

    However given what we already know and what was caught by dozens of cameras, all the points the conspiracy theorists are coming up with are just insane.

    KillingTimeItself ,

    it does inevitably matter, but as of right now, we barely even know who did it, so conspiracies aren’t going to help at all. That was mainly my point behind the comment.

    queue ,
    @queue@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Genuinely infurating that the moment anything happens, NeoLibs will just start copying right-wing talking points.

    ABCDE ,

    Will or they did? Any examples?

    queue , (edited )
    @queue@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    If you check the modlog, before the Mods here started removing them, dozens of commenters said its a false flag, set up by trump.

    Here’s a screenshot of it happening on PoliticalMemes. EDIT: Used the proper screenshot. lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/9664605https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/pictrs/image/5f19539c-95e6-4407-b3ab-11ea9adb5e87.png

    And here’s some screenshots of the mod logs: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/pictrs/image/e376f561-22ef-4a98-9f2f-215768772c5d.pnghttps://lemmy.blahaj.zone/pictrs/image/9dfde7ce-e607-401b-be71-2e205741f357.png

    This isn’t getting into the ones on Mastodon and Twitter who also repeated the same Alex Jones level thinking.

    EDIT: Weird how I gave proof, they move the goal posts. Give proof, move the goal posts. I’m starting to think they just want an excuse for their weird takes and Q-Anon thinking.

    ABCDE ,

    And how do you know they are NeoLibs?

    queue ,
    @queue@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    On twitter/Mastodon with 🇺🇦 🇮🇱 in their profiles, and treating any valid criticisms of Biden are actually by Russian bots.

    That’s why I consider them NeoLibs.

    ABCDE ,

    I asked about the ones you quoted.

    keegomatic ,

    I see, so you just use the term “NeoLib” to mean “people you disagree with” rather than “people with neoliberal political beliefs”

    queue ,
    @queue@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    If it advocates for Neoliberal polices, speaks for Neoliberal polices, defends Neoliberal polices, yeah I do. Take your concern trolling elsewhere. I’m not going to bootlick for Reagan and every president afterwards.

    keegomatic ,

    You think the people you’re calling “NeoLibs” above are Reagan fans? Your criteria for neoliberal policies is “supports Ukraine and Israel at the same time” and “is aware of the current reality of Russian disinformation tactics”? Neither of those have anything to do with neoliberalism. I don’t think you know what “concern trolling” means, either.

    queue ,
    @queue@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Neoliberalism was invented to criticize Reagan’s policies. Clinton took those polices with a coat of blue paint. Bush made them worse. Obama continued them. Trump made them worse. Biden continued them.

    thoro ,

    ^ This is a decently accurate account of how neoliberalism grew to become the dominant economic ideology in the US and Western Europe. Though it was really just a description of Reaganism and Thatcherism at first. Read David Harvey if you disagree.

    queue ,
    @queue@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Weird how I call out bullshit, people ask for proof, I give them proof, they move the goal posts, I give that goal some proof, they move the goalposts.

    It’s like… I know these weirdos when I see them and call them that for a reason.

    thoro , (edited )

    You’re being pedantic. The dominant ideology of the Democratic party is neoliberalism. Democrats continued neoliberal policies following Reagan, like NAFTA and others. They will consistently defer to the market based solutions and “free enterprise” as opposed to actual socialism. The dominant political user on these platforms (especially .world) are capital D Democrats and liberals. You see this on Reddit a lot in /r/neoliberal.

    This user likely isn’t wrong when using this description as a generalization.

    UltraGiGaGigantic ,

    I love lemm.ee

    Yhe mod log is available for all to see. You can even search by username.

    Only one ban so far, I think I’m doing good!

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    I said this in another one of these threads- it is not at all outlandish to think that someone unhinged with a gun would see the threat of a fascist dictator and decide to do something about it.

    Wxnzxn ,
    @Wxnzxn@lemmy.ml avatar

    Yeah, I remember my grandfather telling the story of how Hitler held a speech at a Stadium that was visible from his attic window, and his biggest regret was, that he did not have a machinegun to take him and the other Nazi officials with him out. The US has enough guns and desperation for someone to attempt this, definitely.

    ABCDE ,

    What year was that?

    Wxnzxn ,
    @Wxnzxn@lemmy.ml avatar

    I don’t remember him mentioning the exact year, it’s been ages and I was a child still when he was still alive, but I know it was before the Machtergreifung, because he told it as having been a rally during an election campaign, eerily fitting, I guess.

    KillingTimeItself ,

    it happens a lot more than you would think throughout american history, sometimes with guns, sometimes without. Obama had 8 attempts throughout his terms in office. Biden has had one so far, trump has had a few, nothing more significant than obama though, except for maybe being shot, just barely.

    MagicShel ,

    The right has been agitating for stochastic terrorism for about sixteen god damn years. Well, they got it.

    It’s likely a good thing the guy missed. Trump being assassinated might just kick off the open violence that has been brewing. Still might, but it’ll depend on the next couple of days. If that dude turns out to be a left-winger, and Trump makes no attempt to stop it, I could see things getting very, very ugly.

    Burstar ,
    @Burstar@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    If that dude turns out to be a left-winger

    That dude’s political leaning will turn out to be whatever the news we prefer says he was.

    Pandantic ,
    @Pandantic@midwest.social avatar

    Reports are coming in that he was a registered republican, but had donated to dems once in the past. He was only 20 so not a lot of political history to go on.

    Cocodapuf ,

    I’m not sure it would even take someone unhinged.

    Nobody ,

    Yeah, if you’re going to stage a fake assassination, you don’t fire a bullet a couple inches away from a kill shot. It’s crazy how close this was to a successful attempt.

    KillingTimeItself ,

    It’s probably not staged. Trump reacts quickly - the fuck kind of timing you think that bloated potato has?

    it’s absolutely what you would expect the reaction to be. Much like burning your hand on a stove where your brain deals with the situation a lot quicker than you can logically process it, these kinds of injuries can do the same thing. It’s more than likely the people surrounding him that clued him in on it quicker than anything. That’s the one thing you would be prepared to expect.

    Maggoty ,

    Yeah, a 120 meter shot to graze does not exist. One inch to the right and he’s dead. With wind variables and stuff, the shooter who can reliably pull that off in one shot or volley does not exist.

    aStonedSanta ,

    With a better rifle and a spotter maybe.

    Edit. Just want to say I don’t think it’s a false flag in anyway. Just speculating lol

    Paddzr ,

    Not how guns work I’m afraid. I wouldn’t trust Olympic shooter with that type of shot at a closer distance.

    It is not marvel movie, you don’t go for the head.

    nepenthes ,
    @nepenthes@lemmy.world avatar

    Everyone keeps saying it can’t be staged because it was so close.

    I just wanted to point out it can be both staged and a successful assassination if the end goal is to point the finger at the left and martyr a polarizing figure.

    Maggoty ,

    That’s not staged then. That’s just an inside job.

    nepenthes ,
    @nepenthes@lemmy.world avatar

    Ah, okay-- thanks.

    whoreticulture ,

    That’s the same thing …

    Maggoty ,

    Staged means they set it up like a movie shoot and nobody was ever in danger.

    assassinatedbyCIA ,

    If it was staged then they are playing a very risky game. It doesn’t take much error to make a bullet that grazes your ear dome you. It’s basically certain that this wasn’t staged.

    Vlyn ,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    JackbyDev ,

    First I’m hearing about the 13 year old.

    excral ,

    If it was staged, the only feasible way would be that he wasn’t shot at all and all we saw was fake blood. Regardless, I don’t think it was actually staged

    JackbyDev ,

    It seems far more likely that Trump has some sort of quantum immortality than this being staged. Truly an insane shot to miss so narrowly while still grazing. I get why it makes people scratch their head. It will be interesting to see what happens.

    afraid_of_zombies ,

    https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/000c98fd-5e2b-4411-a48e-9f4fb19a6ef8.jpeg

    TheReturnOfPEB ,

    The WSJ:

    Biden’s Rhetoric Grew Heated in Recent Days

    A few days ago the WSJ said Biden was old and ineffectual. Now Biden is a power master.

    Pick a fucking lane, WSJ

    queue ,
    @queue@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Gotta love how people are instantly pulling a QAnon deal of “ITS A FALSE FLAG, FAKE NEWS, NOTHING HAPPENS WITHOUT A GRAND CABAL!”

    Somehow Trump is a mastermind of this. The dude who can’t hide stolen files properly, can’t lie on his taxes properly, and loses money on a casino, somehow has the ability to rig a false flag assassination attempt.

    Are NeoLibs that so far into the Kool-Aid that Dipshit Trump is also a grandmaster 5D chess player of this, while not being able to string words together? It’s not like he’s ever been a good actor.

    “Now Trump’s gonna say Biden tried to kill him.”

    He already said that.

    “Now Trump’s gonna call for repression of the left.”

    He already did that.

    “Now they’re gonna say Trump is a martyr.”

    They already say that.

    “Now the right is gonna get violent with their political opponents.”

    They already do that.

    “Now the fash are gonna push for an enabling act.”

    They already are doing that.

    It’s equally frustrating and vindicating that people are waking up to the alarms minorities have been sounding for… decades? Even during 9/11, people were saying this is the start of the end for any form of freedom. Then we had economic crash after crash. Then more rights removed. More drone strikes. More illegal wars.

    Then we tried to warn about Trump. No one cared. He won. The people who said he would hurt did get hurt. People acted shocked.

    Biden came in. Ignored the people in jail cells, ignored COVID for better polling, refusing the new powers given to him to do anything better for the country at large, and slowly turning into a walking skeleton.

    And every single time people have said “Hey this is bad for any form of democracy” people said it was overblown, nothing bad would happen. Then it got worse and worse. Voting didn’t solve most of the issues. Protesting did. And then both parties clamped harder on protestors and increased funding to the militarized police.

    Welcome to Weimar Germany, America. People have only warned you for decades. If this doesn’t wake anyone up, then you’ll sleepwalk as you claim ignorance on why you’re “just following orders”.

    protist ,

    Are NeoLibs

    Dude…wild misattribution here

    SirDerpy ,

    First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out — Because I was MLK’s white moderate.

    I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate,

    who is more devoted to “order” than to justice;

    who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice;

    who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”;

    who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.”

    Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

    shalafi ,

    Welcome to Weimar Germany, America.

    I’ve been armed 24/7 since 01/06. Women, POC and LGBT folks are the largest gun purchasing demographic. They too got the memo. So no, I’m not giving up my AR-15 or anything other gun.

    It’s like liberals skipped history class. We’re months away from “red hats” grouping up and patrolling neighborhoods for “undesirables”.

    UltraGiGaGigantic ,

    Like did anyone see what the cops did to us during the George floydd protests? Plus warren VS district of Columbia Supreme Court ruling says cops aren’t there to protect us.

    We’re on our own. I wish we lived in a good place, but that’s not where we are. Or ever will be. Because we are here, and we live LIKE THIS.

    shalafi ,

    We are indeed on our own. That type of thinking is what rural people excel at, and look how they vote.

    No idea what the answer is. Violence, or even defense, from the left will be crushed, just like you said about the protests.

    All I can say is that I will do me best to defend my family. If shooting back means my death, so be it. But unlike many libs, I’m not going to roll over when they come for me and mine.

    Scubus , (edited )

    Not advocating for the theory, but it’s borderline unbelivable that the man gets shot in the ear, and is more concerned about his shoes than his life, then stops to do a fist pump. This is the same man who dodged the draft.

    LustyArgonianMana ,
    @LustyArgonianMana@lemmy.world avatar

    You realize Trump was already previously part of a conspiracy to overthrow the election and was convicted of this, right? It’s not like he’s new to this kind of organizational crime. No one thinks he’s a mastermind; they think he’s a con artist and they just don’t trust him. And I’m not saying it was a false flag, I’m just pointing out that people are basing this on past evidence of his behaviors.

    This is also not a qanon level of a conspiracy, it’s quite mild.

    Here’s what right wing conspiracies have to say so far about the shooting (I highly recommend monitoring them to gauge how they will react the next few days):

    kansascitydefender.com/…/trump-shooting-antifa-co…

    Right-Wing Accounts Launch Mark Violets Antifa Conspiracy in Light of Trump “Assassination Attempt

    Please note this has been DEBUNKED.

    PanoptiDon ,

    I bet there will be a retaliatory attack on his Biden

    baronvonj ,
    @baronvonj@lemmy.world avatar

    at least. and Kamala just because she’s a black woman.

    AnneBonny ,

    Why take a chance on Biden getting replaced with a good candidate?

    SleezyDizasta ,

    I doubt it. Something like this already happened before in 2017. A deranged Bernie supporter went to a congressional baseball game and tried to shoot as many Republicans as he could. He ended up killing 6 people. However, despite that, there were no reactionary shootings. It was an isolated incident. I think this will be the same, or at least I hope.

    retrospectology ,
    @retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

    You do realize the Las Vegas shooting was literally like 3 months later, right?

    SleezyDizasta ,

    We literally have no idea what Stephen Paddock’s motivation was. The Las Vegas shooting was not a reaction to the congressional shooting

    retrospectology ,
    @retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

    Read your first sentence, then read your second sentence. Then do it again a few more times, and then ask yourself why I would listen to anything you say?

    archonet , (edited )

    So you, knowing more than all of the alphabet boys who combed over his personal life for a concrete motive; you know that it was a reaction for a fact, then, yes? Clearly, you must be able to read minds or talk with the dead, then.

    No? You don’t have otherworldly powers?

    tsk well, golly, sport, that sure don’t make a whole lot of sense.

    SleezyDizasta ,

    There’s nothing wrong with what I said. You can’t give criminals motives nor can you give different crimes connections based on your personal opinions. The matter of fact here is that despite numerous investigations, we still don’t know why the Las Vegas shooter did what he did. If evidences surfaces that he was indeed motivated and inspired by the congressional shooting that happened shortly prior then we can establish such a connection, but until that happens we can’t.

    chiliedogg ,

    Please don’t repeat the names of mass shooters.

    SleezyDizasta ,

    I disagree, I think their names should be known and their crimes studied. We can’t erase what they did, nor should we. We have to discuss and research these fucked up individuals otherwise how are we going to come up with a solution for the root cause of the issue?

    chiliedogg ,

    Study them, yes. But that doesn’t require making their names and faces commonplace. Most research is done without broadcasting people’s names and faces to the world. Heck - when I was doing analysis for HHS I wasn’t given anybody’s name or picture at all.

    Some of these killers are seeking fame and attention, and by giving it to them we encourage others.

    SleezyDizasta ,

    That is a fair point, I’ll keep that in mind.

    UltraGiGaGigantic ,

    But giving infamy to that Brock rapist guy is okay right? Just double checking.

    Didn’t get change his name recently? The rapist guy named Brock or something?

    tamal3 ,

    With the number of shootings that happen in the US… Pointing out a seemingly unrelated incident that occurred months later is ridiculous cherry picking.

    retrospectology ,
    @retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

    I mean, the right is already committing violence against its enemies, the media just fails to report it as what it is. Instead it’s “lone wolves” and “mental health problems”. Rittenhouse literally shot people on camera and got away with it “because skateboard”.

    AbidanYre , (edited )

    Daniel Perry murdered someone after driving his car into a crowd and was pardoned because Abbott agreed with his politics.

    en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Garrett_Foster

    The right is perfectly fine with violence that supports them.

    retrospectology ,
    @retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

    The fact that he claimed self-defense really goes to show how far the MAGA attitude of being “victimized” goes. Literally plows his car into a crowd of people and then claims self-defense when shooting someone.

    daltotron ,

    well to be fair it’s not unusual to get away scot free after murdering people with your car, that shit happens all the time

    AbidanYre ,

    He didn’t murder anyone with his car. He drove into a crowd then shot someone.

    roguetrick ,

    Got him in the ear, huh?

    Grayox ,
    @Grayox@lemmy.ml avatar

    Too convenient.

    chiliedogg ,

    Nobody is a good enough shot to risk grazing someone in the head without injuring them.

    Someone almost certainly tried assassinating Trump and failed. It’s shocking that it was possible, and the Secret Service has a lot to answer for if it’s true that someone was able to get on a rooftop with line of sight of a former President delivering a speech. It’s hard to express how good they are at preventing opportunities for snipers these days.

    If the counter-sniper team is the group who killed the assassin, it was the first time they’ve ever had to fire their weapons outside of training.

    Shadehawk25 ,

    No, but a bad shooter could try to miss close to make it look legit and accidentally hit his ear. Trump didn’t have to be hit, just come close.

    Jaeger86 ,

    Right cause the guy just wanted to scare him then die

    FireTower ,
    @FireTower@lemmy.world avatar

    At 100+ yards hitting the ear on a head sized target is incredibly reasonable. This shouldn’t be used as a point of conspiracy.

    shalafi ,

    Qualify that by saying, “stationary target”. I couldn’t do it, but I’m mediocre on a good day.

    shalafi ,

    I’m betting you don’t shoot rifles of any sort.

    dohpaz42 ,
    @dohpaz42@lemmy.world avatar

    “Friends, Americans, and countrymen; lend me your ears!”

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