I believe adults would be charged for assault, though proving that this fight “caused” Nix’s death is much harder. If the suicide note says something about it, there would still be a tough case.
A bunch of your comments in this thread are saying things that disagree with the details in the article and another that’s linked in this one. Where are you getting this info? Because Apnews is one of the few I trust. I’m trying to ascertain if you’re worth listening to over the medical examiner that said it was toxic levels of two drugs and that a suicide notes release was up to the family as reported by Apnews.
“An important part of the Owasso Police Department’s investigation was the discovery of some brief notes, written by Benedict, which appeared to be related to the suicide,” Kunzweiler said. “The precise contents of the suicide note are a personal matter which the family will have to address within the privacy of their own lives.”
And from a link in the linked article.
The report shows Benedict had toxic levels of two drugs in their system and died of an overdose. A complete autopsy will be released in 10 days in accordance with state law, the medical examiner’s office said.
Edit: Furthermore you said
Neither Benadryl nor Prozac are known to be fatal.
And now there’s a precedent set to help stop with your school shootings America, everytime an underage person gets hold of and uses a gun on other people, you can now charge the parents, once a couple more go down you watch how quickly people start properly securing their guns away or more on the extreme side, just give most of them up.
You have something to help stop school shootings, please use it America, it’s too saddening seeing how many children die at your school’s when it could be dealt with just be properly securing your guns away from children.
This case will cause a chilling effect but in a backward sort of way. The reality is that nobody is likely to be convicted in the way Crumbley was, because Crumbley was so unbelievably stupid it was literally criminal. So the only people who will be convicted under this precedent are the equally stupid.
But more intelligent parents will take note, get scared, and hopefully lock up their guns so their insane kids can’t use them to shoot up the school.
Just another reason to not waste time with guns. The risk-benefit just isn’t there.
People want to feel in control and I get that. Take a natural disaster like a wildfire or something. It’s pretty much entirely out of your control. In a burglary, robbery, etc., it too is out of your control you just don’t realize it. The events leading up to that were set in stone in some failure in the assailant’s life, society, etc.
Everyone thinks a gun will make them safer but study after study shows the added risks from a variety of vectors outweighs the alleged safety that comes from possessing one.
In essence, if people had a special device that deterred the one in a million wildfire somehow but that device subsequently elevated the risk of your family being hurt in some other way to a greater degree who would rationally possess such a device?
It concerns me that there seems to be an obvious astroturfed effort to “arm the left” that reflects the ProPublics investigation on right-wing extremists seeking to muddy the waters between the sides and sow a civil / race war. The only people jumping in glee from this are firearm manufacturers who see a new market to tap.
The primary use is to protect you from someone who attempts to cause you harm. It’s only an active risk if not understood how to use and not properly out of reach of those who do not understand. I don’t like guns but I am not sure what you are trying to argue?
This mindset is like the motorcyclists or automobile drivers who espouse they don’t plan on wrecking because they’re good drivers, lmao.
Welcome to why we have speed-limits;; sure, some might know how to drive faster, but boy, when do my fellow males ever over-extend their confidence beyond their actual capability…?
lol anyways, the reality is that statistically the risk to those within the household from mere possession (safety accidents from children, suicide, domestic abuse/homicide, not opting to run, hide, flee, cooperate that are all better alternatives than engaging, statistically, theft of firearm and its use elsewhere) outweighs the safety. Full-stop. From a societal standpoint, that’s kind of a bad ROI.
… And thus in the words of Jim Jefferies, they’re not exactly too great for protection in the heat-of-the-moment, now are they?
… And oh how I wish the vast majority of gun-owners were responsible enough to lock them away. Yet time and time again – case in point here in this very article – we see they cannot be trusted with the simple standard of locking away firearms.
Tell me what the primary use of a firearm in my home is on a daily-basis other than being an active risk.
Well, it serves multiple purposes, actually! For starters, it makes a fantastic paperweight when I have too many documents on my desk. Secondly, if I ever run out of popcorn kernels while watching a movie, I can just load some small ones into the gun and shoot them into a frying pan. It also works great as a marshmallow launcher during backyard bonfires - that’ll impress all your friends at your next neighborhood get-together. Oh, and last but not least, you can use it as a walking stick or a selfie stick for those hard-to-reach angles. Clearly, there are several creative ways to utilize a firearm in everyday life.
Most, if not all, leftists accept Marx’s ideation of capitalism - even anarchists, who can be pretty disdainful of Marx otherwise. If you don’t, you’re not a leftist.
So… do you have any other reason to disarm the left apart from your silly little liberal conspiracy theory?
So by extension, they all accept his word on firearms? You speak for all leftists? How awfully convenient!
Alllriiightyyy, then… Your logical fallacy is: Non-Sequitur.
I can give you a plethora of reasons worth the time honestly, but given your usage of fallacies and blindly presumptuous takes (“silly little liberal”), I’m just not sure it’s worth my time.
I can give you a plethora of reasons worth the time honestly
And yet you haven’t… no surprises there.
(“silly little liberal”)
Yes, I called your silly little liberal conspiracy theory a silly little liberal conspiracy theory - because it’s a silly little liberal conspiracy theory.
Hi there! Looks like you linked to a Lemmy community using a URL instead of its name, which doesn’t work well for people on different instances. Try fixing it like this: !leftism
c/leftism and c/anarchism is a representative sample of all lefitsts…? Citation needed, please!
Why would I need to try when your argument is fallacious out of the gate? I’m a self-described leftist and I disagree. I’m living-proof you’re objectively incorrect. But please proceed with obvious gatekeeping.
And yet you haven’t… no surprises there.
Of course, I gave the precise reason as to why. With fallacies like these, why would I consider an in-depth discussion? Explain.
Yes, I called your silly little liberal conspiracy theory a silly little liberal conspiracy theory - because it’s a silly little liberal conspiracy theory.
Since when is ProPublica a conspiracy theory? It’s well-documented this is precisely what righties and firearm manufacturers want. Or is it that difficult to comprehend that firearm manufacturers would want to make more money by selling to a wider market?
c/leftism and c/anarchism is a representative sample of all lefitsts…?
Yeah… I had an idea you wouldn’t want actual leftists dropping their two cents onto your shitty little lib conspiracy theory.
Can I spot a liberal or can I spot a liberal?
Of course, I gave the precise reason as to why.
You have given absolutely nothing.
precisely what righties and firearm manufacturers want.
Riiiiight… arming the left is exactly what right-wingers want - that is why they rushed to support the Black Panthers when they started packing heat, right?
I think I might have a bridge to sell you. Interested?
Yeah… I had an idea you wouldn’t want actual leftists dropping their two cents onto your shitty little lib conspiracy theory.
No-true Scot Fallacy. You just can’t stop from making fallacies and gatekeeping as you make statistical errors for a population pool that is — checks notes — <1% of the population… Thinking a fringe subreddit comprised of anonymity and astroturfers is going to represent all leftists in America, LOL. Come on kid, lay off the weed and start to use that noggin for but a moment, would you?
Can I spot a liberal or can I spot a liberal?
Can I spot a silly little revolutionary at — oh let me guess — the ripe age of around 22-years-old? Though I may be pushing it and you’ve yet to break out of your teens. A classic tale old as time, substituting bullets for brains.
You have given absolutely nothing.
Perhaps if your reading-comprehension isn’t so good, this may be the case?
Riiiiight… arming the left is exactly what right-wingers want - that is why they rushed to support the Black Panthers when they started packing heat, right?
Times have changed, buddy. At the moment, right-wing extremists are getting destroyed in the media because the contrast between left and right-wing violence is so stark. No matter how hard they try the BoTh SiDeS bullshit is just no longer sticking. While the left remains largely unarmed, the right is causing all sorts of chaos with violent attacks and it’s taking a toll on their ideology’s popularity. Their leaders are being charged; the DOJ is highlighting right-wing extremism as the #1 domestic terrorist threat. So what do these right-wing dipshits obviously want? To muddy the waters and escalate things and radicalize the left. But at the moment they know they can’t, and it’s making them look really bad. Let’s keep it that way, mmmkay? Again, let’s use brains over bullets.
Stationed at North Carolina’s Camp Lejeune and assigned to the 2nd Marine Logistics Group, Pistolis has associated with an array of neo-Nazi organizations, including the National Socialist Movement, the Traditionalist Worker Party, and Atomwaffen Division, a clandestine group that aims to incite a race war, according to interviews and an analysis of video and online postings. Pistolis is under investigation by the Naval Criminal Investigative Service, or NCIS, which typically examines felony-level offenses involving Navy or Marine Corps personnel.
Also I didn’t think it took much ink to connect the dots that all you’re doing is making rich firearm manufacturer executives & shareholders happy with the purchase of your firearm that makes you feel mighty, but you sure dodged that. Indeed, you’re really taking on the Bourgeoisie, LOL.
lol you’re losing it, kid. You’ve got nothing. Thanks for all but conceding defeat. Just lay off the weed and get through school before taking on the bourgeoisie, mmkay? Keep making those firearm execs rich, you little capitalist!
Yeah there’s already the worst possible thing as the potential outcome so really can’t see adding a tiny part to it will change anything. No one is thinking ‘well as long as he’s only shooting up the school I’ll let him play with the guns’ they’re thinking ‘I’m really smart and nothing bad will ever happen’.
I’m not saying it isn’t a good idea because maybe it will stop one or two kids becoming killers which is more than worth it, though it’s dangerous too if the kid decides it’s how he’ll get his revenge by doing a shooting and leaving a note saying his stepdad helped
For many people, guns are used for sport (hunting). In rural areas, this is very common. Some people are just paranoid and feel the need to be armed. It’s not stupid in its own right. If the owner of the gun knows how to secure it properly and takes the appropriate precautions, it can be safe to store firearms in a house. The problem is that too many people who own guns let their egos get too big and are neglectful of gun safety or downright stupid. That’s when problems arise.
There is real nuance to this issue. Don’t try to dumb it down to “gun owners are idiots”.
Some people are just paranoid and feel the need to be armed.
Yep idiots. In a normal country wouldn’t be allowed to own a deadly weapon. Maybe I am pushing it a bit too far because all other countries have hunters and a tiny fraction of the population with a good reason to own a firearm, but gun owners are idiots is a food enough approximation.
Also, you can store a nuclear weapon safely in a house doesn’t mean any idiot should have one.
Trust me, my rural neighbors on all fucking sides of me aren’t hunting with the ARs they start shooting the fucking moment the get home from church on Sundays. And given the number of stray bullet incidents, they ain’t Boy Scouts either.
Yeah I was iffy on the charges until I heard the details. From what I’ve heard the crumbleys were negligent on a level that’s difficult to sufficiently express
Actually the level of ignorance is easy to express, if you’re William Faulkner. There are vast swaths of humanity that are dumb as fucking rocks. It’s not polite to talk about but as someone involved in education admin, there are these kinds of parents EVERYWHERE. I’ve literally sat in disciplinary appeals where the parents try to explain that their child HAD to have a concealed dagger for protection. In a k-12 school with 400 kids total, no school resource officers/popo, no fights, highly involved parents, etc. Um, no, your child is expelled and I’m slightly terrified that they’ll shoot us up when they turn 20 and start going schizto.
Yeah you’d better especially if you’re a shitty parent giving an emotionally troubled teen access to a weapon, you’ll end up with a special prosecutor rightfully charging your ass.
Remember Mr prosecutor this guy’s wife thought it was more important to get finger banged by her lover instead of helping her child in crisis. They’re trash people.
All I want is for people to properly secure their guns at best and not let their hormone filled children gain access to them.
We have shit loads of guns in Australia still, we just don’t have it so any billy bob can go down and get a military spec assault rifle to “defend their home”.
Yeah we do, you can still buy and own guns in Australia, it’s just highly regulated and you have to have your weapon secured in a gun safe or at your gun club, which you have to be a member of to be able to purchase, I have a gun shop and a club just down the road from me and that clubs packed all weekend with people shooting.
No shit a shooting club is packed with people with a gun.
Doesn’t mean Australia is packed with guns just because you see a handful of idiots down the road, that is not representative of the whole population. As you said heavily regulated, there’s virtually no guns besides farms and the club down the road from you. Quick search puts AU at 14.5 guns per 100 population. Quite low in the list and well below civilised places like Canada, Switzerland and many eu countries.
What people on reddit and lemmy don’t seem to understand is that the shock caused by ONE mass shooting, port Arthur, and the policies introduced as a consequence shifted a country that was similar to the US in terms of gun ownership to become similar to a western European country. Ie guns are virtually non existent (unless you leave next door from a shooting range, apparently that needs to be made clear).
Guns are certainly not ‘virtually non existent’ in Australia. Your comment is written with such gusto and pride but reeks like a 12 year old wrote it after hearing about it in history class last week.
Edit: oh wait you are not even the guy I was replying to. So you just came here to add nothing, make a wrong statement and insult me. How about you wait until next year, go through that history class yourself, and then you can tell us what you think about how Australia managed to implement gun control? theguardian.com/…/it-took-one-massacre-how-austra…
… and as the article fails to mention… what about the bloody TREES!? Imagine scammers cutting down a century-old, beautiful tree just to make a few hundred dollars. What a scummy, short-term, selfish thing to do. GRRRR.
Stories like this make me consider that humans deserve to go extinct. Maybe raccoons and corvids will do a better job of caring for this planet.
Oh they do. This is one of the most common types of scams out there. It sucked that I technically had to participate in many attempts at these because I worked as a relay operator prior to there being rules allowing us to disconnect obvious scammers.
If they actually cut them down, could you invoke TREE LAW? Wrongfully cutting down trees can lead to massive fines in the US, since they are so hard to replace.
… In a news story about swaths of people getting scammed, finding it, stopping it, helping others and news notifying everyone possible… Humanity deserves extinction because of some scammers probably in India?
This new CEO of Wendy’s would be wise to remember that fast food is a convenience not a necessity. I’ve got a nice little propane grill in the backyard and I know how to make a square patty. I don’t need you, you need me.
Okay? Skillets exist. Countertop George Foreman grills exist. Either of which can be purchased for $30 or less and will last for years. There are multiple affordable ways to make a hamburger without a yard if you’d like to do so. Not sure why you’re trying to shame me for daring to say that I have an outdoor grill so I’m just gonna go ahead and block you. This isn’t worth a moment more of my time.
Within hours of the shooting, Jones was telling his audience that it was staged as a pretext for confiscating guns. Within days, he began to suggest that grieving parents were actors. In the years that followed, he repeatedly said the massacre was faked.
The families testified during the trial that the lies spread by Jones led to harassment and threats by conspiracy theorists who have accused them of faking their own children’s deaths. They described feeling unsafe in their own homes and hypervigilant in public. Some of the families moved away from Newtown.
Ok, I read up on it after I posted my comment. Truth is I have a porous memory (yes that’s a thing) and forgot specifics on topics from things like the news. I’m not American so that kind of news isn’t front and center all the time like it is there.
As soon as I read it it clicked though. For whatever reason, I thought there was something else that happened that I didn’t know about.
Yep…need to highlight the differences between saying “we need to be aware that this could be a false flag operation by Democrats to condition American citizens to accept oppressive gun control” and “(specific) people took money from George Soros to fake having a child and fake having them die in a fake school shooting because they hate America and want to make everyone slaves. We used to kill people like that, people who did what (specific person) did” over and over on nationally accessible broadcasts. Roughly paraphrased AJ’s stance there, but you get the point.
Dude, you’re not a better man. MAYBE less violent, but still a massively manipulative moron if you think ANY of the shit you’ve repeated here is true. I thought SOME of that shit when I was a TEENAGER! You know what happened when I realized I was the one who sucked? I met great women! Quit blaming others for YOUR inadequacies! You’re a shit-stain on the male gender, just like that murderer.
LOL, what clever reverse psychology Mr. Putin! We will definitely all buy that you want the guy pushing to arm your victims rather than the one who wants to give you a free pass. It’s frankly shocking how bad they are at their overt manipulation. Their propaganda videos for conservative westerners are incredibly poorly done, like they have no idea what sort of cultural styles appeal to which segments of the US population.
Their propaganda videos for conservative westerners are incredibly poorly done
This is probably on purpose, for the same reason that spam emails are so poorly done and have so many misspellings. They want to get the people who are not attentive to details, because they are easier to manipulate.
Well im somewhat new on Lemmy so i cant speak with full certainty, but given the replies i was getting to what i commented on this same news piece there… yeah, it’s pretty trolltastic.
I can’t remember if they’re actually pro-Russia, but I chose an instance that doesn’t federate with Hexbear for exactly the reason that I don’t have to see their trolling. Reddit was nicer once CTH got banned and Lemmy is much better without Hexbear.
US democracy is on thin ice. Enough people are willing to overlook any of the stuff mentioned in this discussion and vote for Trump to flip the elections if Biden fucks up anything. Literally anything, like stumbling over a fold in a rug or forgetting a name.
Simple, it’s about the money “WERE FIGHTING FOR ELECTION INTEGRITY, DONATE TO STOP THE DEMON-CRAT STEAL”
They might hope to win the case (making chud lawyers rich), but losing has its own appeal. The SovCit or conspiracy angle that ‘the swamp’ is covering for Biden, perpetuating their victimhood until the next election.m, is like moths to a flame
You’re right. Sadly we live in a country where you can sue anyone for anything. Most people don’t know how the legal system works. These networks make a living exploiting that.
It may not be a 1:1 but the costs (financial and time) are largely offset.
I live in a city, I don’t own a car, I walk and ride a bike, and use public transportation and ride sharing. Granted, the convenience and cost savings can greatly depend on the city, how well it values pedestrians and public transportation, and if the housing market isn’t stupid. I mean, I’m not talking about SF or NYC here.
The more people move back to cities, the more human-friendly they become. The more that people stay and spread further into the suburbs, the more they rely on private transportation and commuting for something like a quarter of their lives. Relative to a suburban life that relies on driving everywhere, my life is very low on stress and high on comfort. “Comfort”, certainly, is relative. I can walk or take public transportation no more than twenty minutes to get to work or anywhere else.
City life can take a little more effort than stepping out of your front door into your car and dealing with traffic and spending money on gas and car insurance. But, aside from a decent pair of shoes and “comfort”, it doesn’t cost me anything to walk 10 minutes to my local market to spend $80 on a week’s worth of food.
I do fully agree that remote work increases the employee pool and benefits employers. I’m just arguing on behalf of city life being more affordable and convenient than it’s given credit for.
I’d also argue that the loss of office workers is having a very real impact on small businesses. Some of my favorite and dearly beloved businesses have closed in the past couple years because of the loss of office workers.
I think remote workers should be given a bonus, either by the state or their employer, for living in the city their company is based in. Ironically and with immense frustration, here in Philadelphia, our city actually taxes us for living AND/OR working here. Still, I would never move back to frustration of suburban life.
83% of Americans live in urban areas. Maybe 10% of those have useable public transport. My city has a single train line and some buses that take roughly 4x longer to get where I’m going.
Public transportation is certainly an option in cities. Most suburbs I’ve been to at least have buses and ride share. Still, “most of the US” is rural and sprawling suburbs that do not have these options. If more people lived and worked in and near cities, the public transportation would have more public funding for improvements. Thankfully, this administration is looking into some very exciting improvements in our rail systems and offering more funding for cities for their own improvements. Fingers crossed.
I don’t know how people feel the need to lie about things like this.
You’re telling me that in the United State of America, there are cities that exist that do not have buses or subways or trollies or taxis or Ubers or bike shares? Please, tell me which city has none of these options?
Plus all too often, buses have been the neglected stepchild of public transit and at least have the reputation of dirty, smelly, broken, crime ridden. I don’t think that’s true for the most part but there’s a psychological part to deal with, in addition to investing enough to keep things in good running order
WTF are you going on about? We’re talking about city bus routes to get you around town. Most bus routes are at most a ten minute walk. To claim that a city bus is 30 miles away is a verifiable lie. Do you not know what a city or a bus or a mile is?
While technically true, car and bike share aren’t publicly managed, they are affordable forms of transportation available to the public that negate the need to have a vehicle in a city.
You’re doing a really poor job of using your words to communicate whatever it is that’s on your mind. Are you having a different conversation than the rest of us?
You responded to me when I said I don’t need a car in a city because of all the publicly available transportation. You said “That’s great that you have that but those options don’t exist in most of the US”.
I said my point was that living in a city is more convenient than most of the country which is not a city.
You said “We’re talking about cities…” then went on to claim without a source that “Maybe 10% of those have useable public transport”.
You doubled down and responded to “Public transportation is certainly an option in cities.” with “Not in US cities.”
And now you are claiming that there are cities where the closest bus stop is 30 miles away.
I don’t know if a 30 mile wide city is even a thing that exists anywhere in the country let alone the fact that what you’re claiming would likely mean the city is actually 61 miles wide for someone to be 30 miles from the nearest bus.
Perhaps if you could be more specific about the location you have in mind we could have an intelligent conversation.
I am asking you what your point is and you’re throwing out ideas not based in reality.
The point that I made, that you are attempting to prove wrong, is that cities have readily available affordable transportation and if more people move to and work in cities they’d become even more robust and human-friendly. I’m suggesting that the lives of people living in the suburbs and working in cities (or pleading not to return to city office spaces), would be more affordable, flexibly, and convenient if they forwent private vehicle ownership in favor of living in a city and utilizing not-private transportation.
You seem to believe that cities do not have not-private transportation or a bus within thirty miles. That is a detail that’s very relevant to the point of the conversation.
I don’t know how I could possibly be more clear about my point. Most US cities do not have sufficient public transportation to consider as a realistic alternative. I’ve already given several examples from the city I personally live in.
The point that I made, that you are attempting to prove wrong
I’m not attempting to prove anything. I’m just telling you that you’re wrong. And clearly the vast majority agrees.
if more people move to and work in cities they’d become even more robust and human-friendly
People do want to live and work in cities. That’s why it’s more expensive. Like 5-10x more expensive in my area. Selling my car ain’t gonna cover that cost. Cities do nothing but build more and bigger highways that spread further away from town and mandate giant parking lots. You have it backwards.
You seem to believe that cities do not have not-private transportation or a bus within thirty miles.
Forget the thirty miles. Call it 10 miles. How are you gonna get there? Ride your bike? Great, add another hour to your commute, on top of the extra hour it takes the bus to get you into town instead of driving. Assuming you’re not murdered on your way to the bus stop because the city lacks proper cycling infrastructure.
It would be helpful to know what cit you live in. I’m in Philadelphia. There’s literally a bus stop 12 steps from my front door. The next three closest stops are each a block away. I can not fathom a city that doesn’t have a bus stop more than a fifteen minute walk - let alone ten miles(!) away.
In my city, it’s substantially cheaper to live here than in the suburbs with a car. This certainly fluctuates across the country but 5-10x more is ridiculous. Maybe twice as much at most or three times as much in places like SF and NY. As I stated from the beginning, those are exceptions.
You have it backwards. It’s the suburbs that are the cause for so many highways. You can’t have suburbs without highways to get around. Cities are self contained. I have no need for a highway. Nor a parking lot. It’s the people who live in the suburbs who visit and work in the city who use parking lots. This is all apparent in your own statement; “selling a car… cities build more highways” is grossly illogical.
You are clearly hyper focused on people who live in a suburb and want to get to a city. You are ignoring the entire point of the conversation.
You’re either rich as fuck or live in a dump you go out of every night to spend as little time there as possible and spend the rest of your money.
Fuck off, never going back to a city.
London is hell on earth. I live an hour away and rent my own 1-bed that I leave as little as possible. Life is amazing.
EDIT: pretty hotheaded comment, sorry I was insulting, but basically what it comes down to is that city housing is small and expensive in the UK, so it makes sense to leave to a suburb/town and I would never come back, maybe not so in the US.
I’m not rich as fuck nor do I live in a dump. I don’t go out every night spending my money.
I can’t speak to London since I’ve never been there, but living in Brooklyn has been better on every metric I care about than living in the suburbs. It’s walkable. There’s stuff I want to do. There’s people.
If you’re an anti social hermit who never leaves their house then sure I guess you can live wherever. But that sounds unhealthy.
American suburbs are extra hellish tbf. I don’t own a car or even have a driver’s license, my suburban area is a small walkable town with tons of restaurants, convenience stores and grocery stores, all on one street thats pedestrianized most of the day. It’s not crowded and easy to avoid people.
I think housing in the US is generally better, but in the UK when I last lived in a city a family of three moved into an attic with a prison style shower I lived in for £1k PCM, except they paid £1300 for the privilege. I now rent my own 1-bed for less and can save money.
If anything honestly living in a city is actually factually unhealthy, people weren’t meant to be around that many people, not to mention the pollution. Being a good amount of space away from any other people is the best feeling tbh.
Each to their own though I respect you for having a well formed take. Most city people like some friends who stayed after uni just deny the problems of cities, rather than simply state they care more about the advantages.
people weren’t meant to be around that many people
There’s a middle ground between a population living on top of one another and sprawling suburbs. I would strongly argue that humans are creatures that thrive on social interaction. Today’s culture has twisted that on end driving us away from one another - THAT is unhealthy.
I do take the point that crowded environments sometimes aren’t good for our physical health. Indoor plumbing and sewage systems solved that issue on one hand, but on the other hand we just lived through a pandemic that may or may not have been exasperated by close living quarters.
Maybe if we were less prone to be dicks to one another (because governments and corporations thrive on our anger, fear, and division) we wouldn’t have been so polarized during the pandemic and had saved a few hundred thousand lives.
I have social interaction all the time, we’re having it here right now on Lemmy, I also talk on VRC and occasionally visit ppl IRL. Social interaction with strangers though, especially forced as it is in cities, isn’t supposed to be a thing, that’s like why prisons are so horrible
Your suburb sounds way nicer than the one I grew up in. It was like a 45 minute walk to the “main Street”, with no sidewalks for most of it. A guy got hit by a car and killed at the intersection closest to the house when I was living there, too. Visiting any friends without a car impractical and/or “walk along the highway” dangerous.
A friend of mine lived in Beacon, NY for a year. It was kind of nice to visit. Walkable main street, restaurants and shops. Lots of space and nature. I don’t think I’d want to live there full time though. Like it’s cool that they have a Thai restaurant, but they have A Thai restaurant. There’s like 20 that deliver to me here, and a handful I can walk to.
If anything honestly living in a city is actually factually unhealthy, people weren’t meant to be around that many people, not to mention the pollution. Being a good amount of space away from any other people is the best feeling tbh.
This is interesting and I wonder how much is just individual. I get sad in the suburbs when there’s not a lot of people around. It feels lonely. The crowds here feel like a comfortable blanket. I like knowing that if I wreck my bike people will be there to help (that happened to me once, memorably)
I don’t know about pollution. That probably varies a lot by specifics. My parents lived in a suburb really close to a highway, so that probably wasn’t good for our air. New York I think is pretty good air quality because of its location and mass transit, where like Houston or LA I think have much worse smog problems.
That’s just American suburbs, honestly. Many if not most subdvisions are designed to be pedestrian-hostile with the specific intent of excluding – shall we say – a certain class of person who doesn’t have access to a car, and are thrown up wherever a builder managed to snag a contiguous chunk of greenfield site vaguely near a major city rather than being planned and positioned to for convenience to mass transit and amenities.
Heck, I live in a old streetcar suburb, that’s basically in the city proper, and while it’s only a ten minute walk to the nearest grocery store, I don’t walk it because a) it’s a fucking Walmart and I’m not giving them any of my money if I can help it and b) it’d require me to walk along two busy stroads, one way while lugging sacks of groceries. I’d prefer not to get mowed down by somebody coming off the highway who’s not paying attention at the crosswalk if I can help it.
It must be area dependent in the US then, because I’ve lived in suburbs or small towns most of my life - the rest was spent on military bases overseas when I was a kid. The previous poster’s description of “no sidewalks” left me wondering just how far away from the city this suburb was. I mean, I could see specific subdivisions, I guess, but if it’s a true suburb of a major metropolitan area, I guess I always think of those as being thoroughly developed.
That’s been my experience, anyway. Not with public transport or anything, certainly, but fully paved and all that.
For reference, I live in a suburb of a midwestern city right now.
Wikipedia describes it as a suburb. It’s within 40 miles of Manhattan. It might have been a little less than 40 minutes walking to parts of main Street. I checked on Google maps and asked it how long to walk from my parents house to the town library, which was pretty central.
WTF? I make an average salary and live in an average home. I do not go “out” all the time - that’s financially irresponsible and I’m a grownass adult. You’re not even making any sense. I have no way to relate to London but I have to imagine it’s stupid expensive.
You must be middle class af then. My wage is like 80th percentile for the UK and while I could afford living in London it’d be in some studio dump or like a moldy room in a shed somewhere.
The UK is a different situation. You are experiencing the rigging of the market by people born 100 years ago more than most, though the rest will catch up.
I used to live in the city and then moved out because rent is 4500 a month for a one bedroom and I don’t feel like spending around 50k a year on housing for a small little rathole, especially when my salary cannot bear that
Also, now I’m not in the city, I have parks and trails and farms all right near me and I feel way healthier
Maybe I have to accept that I’m just super lucky to live in such a walkable and affordable city surrounded by so much open space and wildlife with better public transportation that we give it credit for. I mean, I spend less than $15k a year for 800 sq ft (plus large backyard) in of one of the more vibrant neighborhoods.
Seems people are angry that you like a walkable city while they prefer to live in the suburbs. Or perhaps they are bitter that you get to live there and they don’t.
I wasn’t raised in the city. I grew up in a very Normal Rockwell painting suburb. I certainly had a different impression about city life as a kid before I moved here. What’s strange is that people do seem to have this anger and bitterness. I don’t know where it comes from. Fear of the unknown? Media bias?
In part, I think a large number of Americans believe in ultimate freedom and individuality in spite of all else - the country was basically founded (in my city) on this premise. So as soon as you suggest that people consider living in closer quarters and give up a personal vehicle in favor of relying on others for transportation, you’re breaking the brainwashing they’ve gown up with. I just find it ironic because humans are a social species that benefit from communication and cooperation. For me, my brain breaks when people fight so strongly in favor of suburban and rural living. I get that technology can bridge this gap but there’s still far more benefits to city life than anything else, in my opinion. I mean, I hate people but I could never live in isolation either.
Transit has gotten such a bad reputation in the US that people consider it an imposition, a limitation, a constraint, when good transit is completely opposite. I loved the freedoms I got from livening in the city and having a subway pass! I just don’t have that anymore, now that I’m in a suburb.
This was Boston, which has pretty good transit for the US, but even then there were too many limitations that I eventually gave it up (that was before Uber, zipcar, rail trails, electric mobility, etc, so may be different now)
The solution is the revival of transit. Good transit. Even medium to smaller cities where trains aren’t appropriate can have good transit giving that freedom of not dealing with cars or traffic or parking. How do we make this happen?
I spent my childhood in a very rural area. I couldn’t wait to get away. I went to college and moved to a small-to-medium sized US city where I’ve now resided in the downtown area for over ten years.
The public transit is limited and the bus system is poor. Riding a bus to my job would take two hours each way, when driving takes 20 minutes. The jobs in my field are concentrated in the suburbs so I have no choice but to own a vehicle. Owning a vehicle in the city costs significantly more than in the suburbs or rural areas. I am unable to perform vehicle maintenance myself due to the unaffordability of homes here with garages or even off-street parking. My vehicle has been broken into multiple times. My insurance is higher and the cost to repair glass is a huge dent in one’s monthly income.
I have homeless people who jump the fence into a shared courtyard for my condominium and setup camp, leaving trash and other dangerous objects behind. The police come hours late if at all for these issues. My girlfriend gets catcalled and harassed by men who seem to spend all day propped against a building at the nearest street corner.
The most difficult thing for me to come to terms with is the fact that I’ve always dreamed of starting a business. My expertise is in physical industries. The kind where having a workshop or some land to keep equipment on goes a long way toward your success. Living in a city longterm would make that dream impossible.
Nothing in the city is free. It is impossible to exist here without each and every activity costing you something. Having everyone live in cities and use public transit is a wonderful thought, but it isn’t perfect.
I’m moving back to a rural area in a few years and building a house. It’ll be nice to walk outside, look up at the sky, have some peace and quiet, and just exist without being charged for it.
Philadelphia is one of the better cities I’ve ever experienced. For what its worth I lived there 4 years and never really had much of an issue. Enjoyed the spaces, got around fine, septa was totally adequate. I am originally from Baltimore though, and it is a VERY different situation. I now live in a rural setting, and would never consider a move to Baltimore under any circumstance. I don’t know if its quite anger or resentment, but I’d wager most cities around the country are closer to Baltimore than Philly in terms of developed infrastructure and overall livability and most people are trained to filter the word “city” through the lens of their nearest city.
I grew up in the city (beacon Hill in Boston) then ended up in the suburbs for a while, then back to the city again. Most of my suburban friends refused to come visit me, they tend to see “the city” as one thing, like they hear about rougher parts of town and think everywhere is like that… And they were afraid of the subway…
Higher cost of living (COL) areas do (at least sometimes) offset their costs. I think public transit availability is a very tiny piece of the puzzle in the US because unless you’re talking a handful of cities the public transit in cities isn’t guaranteed to be good enough to go car free. Additionally, many large offices are not located in transit available, urban locations (i.e. they’re near cities, but not in cities).
However, the areas that offset their costs do so because people in low COL areas often make a pittalence in comparison to those living in high COL areas.
In a high COL area, you can forgo some of the COL by living a more meager lifestyle, but in a low COL area you cannot as easily make up the additional $20-30k a year salary difference.
If you work for a company and move, sometimes they’ll even do the adjustment as a part of your move, and if you go from higher COL to lower COL they’ll make sure your paycheck reflects that.
Yeah, the whole “get people back in the office to help real estate prices” isn’t going to work either because it’s false demand. A new company starting up has no reason to buy the bags the companies that decided to get into business real estate are now holding unless they actually need the office space, which isn’t the case for most office jobs.
The cost of it doesn’t bother me as much as the time involved. If I’m showing up and leaving at the assigned hour I’m burning 30 or 40 minutes in the car each way. Adding another 15 to 30 minutes to get ready to go in versus my just getting dressed and walking into my home office.
Driving’s always subliminally stressful. The whole time you’re driving your subconsciously watching the cars around you and looking for problems. Your heart rate goes up and whenever you get to your location It takes a little while to get back in your groove. There’s a nonzero transition period there. The last thing I want to do after driving home for 40 minutes and heavy traffic is to barrel right into chores but there I am.
My last 3 jobs have had a 45-1.25 hour commute. The city is too expensive to live in, plus traffic, plus trying to find a midpoint between my job and my wife’s all kind of lead to this. I get some of my coworkers prefer to go in because they can’t work from home because the environment there isn’t conducive to working, but that doesn’t mean I should have to pay for that. I never realized how much of my time was being sucked up commuting until I the pandemic lol.
never work naked. even partially. eventually something will happen where an emergency meeting happens or you need to get up real quick. nope not worth it. i don’t get fancy, but not pajamas 100%
I always kept my shirt on (I would be cold otherwise anyway), but I guess the way my home office is set up, you couldn’t see that I was just in my boxers even if I had to get up. I didn’t really think about it.
They claim that there was a disclaimer somewhere that said the money might be used for legal challenges or something. I think it’s fraud, and some of his donors might want to sue, but I don’t know if he will be prosecuted for this without more victims stepping up and demanding it. His defense could line up qultists around the block to testify on his behalf that they knew they were donating to his legal defense fund.
Or Trump could be loaning his campaign money at substantial interest, which is perfectly legal AND a common practice with many legislators on both sides of the aisle, because all we elect are corrupt and evil people.
Imagine how much worse this is going to get when he’s reelected and everything he said and did is validated. I suspect the next several years will make 2020 look like a cakewalk.
I’m not entirely sure. I know that he’s not supposed to use any of his campaign money to pay for fines or other penalties incurred by litigation. I think he might be allowed to use it to pay lawyers to defend him, though.
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