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newthrowaway20 , in Uno reverse šŸ”

Iā€™m gonna call it Twitter even harder now.

abbadon420 ,

Yeah, I ve got such a hard twitter right now

kinsnik ,

iā€™m going to stop calling it twitter when twitter.com redirects to x.com, and not the other way around

at that point i would stop talking about it, because X is just too stupid

BrudderAaron ,
@BrudderAaron@lemmy.world avatar

His obsession with the letter X is like that middle school kid who used to talk about how many girlfriends he got and how good he is at being a bad assā€¦

Basically, heā€™s a less likeable version of Zane from Hypnospace Outlaw.

Cabrio ,

Heā€™s a wannabe Steve Jobs who has chased his own one letter legacy for 30 years, pathetic.

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/f3af3ef8-90a7-4ac7-b2d9-dfad51b225eb.jpeg

ericisshort ,

I wrote that meme out in a comment like a month ago because I was too lazy to put the text on the image, so thanks.

AffineConnection ,

ā€œXā€ already happened. Musk even stole the logo.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d4/X-Window-System.png

stochasticity ,

By stole the logo you mean itā€™s the same letter?

DrYazman ,

I guess heā€™s claiming the font having that little white separation between parts of the letter is some unique identifier, but so many fonts and logos do this that I donā€™t think it passes a distinctiveness test at all.

zurohki ,

BTW, thereā€™s a Mastodon instance at wayland.social.

mcqtom ,

Tight reference.

Ghostalmedia ,
@Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world avatar

Iā€™ve said it before and Iā€™ll say it again. If you want him to fail, help him destroy Twitterā€™s brand.

Call it X.

I has worse brand recognition, terrible brand loyalty, and if only highlights that the product has changed for the worse.

funkless_eck ,

my little bit is to say ā€œwhatā€™s twitter?ā€ (sigh, alright thenā€¦ X) ā€œā€¦whatā€™s X?ā€

over_clox ,

TWITTER

wheresmypillow ,

Call it Xitter. Pronounced like ā€œshitterā€.

andros_rex , in True Story

Mates, makeup ainā€™t for yā€™all. You know how you spent eight hours messing with your .bashrc or rolling for counter strike skins or whatever weirdass hobby you have? You donā€™t do it because you are trying to attract women - you see your friends get into something cool and you get competitive with them. Thatā€™s what it is for the womenfolk. They get their nails did and do weird ass makeup looks because itā€™s a fun hobby. They know that you probably donā€™t care about the difference between coffin and ballerina nails. But their friends do, and they want to show off, because itā€™s fun.

0x0 ,

Wow, this is a wake up call. I have been wasting my time on this .bashrc file.

metaStatic ,

Time I enjoy wasting isn't wasted time ... so yeah, totally wasted on .bashsrc, but the programmer socks make up for it.

kautau , (edited )

programmer socks

I know Iā€™ve been online for too long to know if these are just nerdy socks or cute thigh highs for ricing

Rexios ,

Iā€™m pretty sure anyone saying the phrase ā€œprogramming socksā€ really means cute thigh highs

kautau ,

Powerline fonts are just fake lashes for nerds

DriftinGrifter ,

AS a gay guy i can atleast tell you this dies not hold true for the gays OFC part of its all in gold fĆ¼nf but we still try to look hot 4 guys

garbagebagel ,

Maybe itā€™s a guy thing to want to look hot primarily to attract a mate, so thatā€™s why hetero men think women do everything just to look good for them.

DriftinGrifter ,

Honestly i think it isnā€™t a Gender thing and much more an individual thing thats different for everyone IMO much too much gets associated with Gender when it shouldnā€™t have anything to do with it

AeroLemming ,

I mean, considering how widespread the hobby seems to be and how long limited forms of it have been around, I wouldnā€™t be surprised if evolution had a hand in it even if people donā€™t consciously perceive themselves as doing makeup for that reason. Itā€™s kind of like how people tend to get bored of the same food if they eat it too much because the same taste over and over stops being interesting, but really, that mechanism promotes a more diverse diet that covers more nutritional requirements.

froh42 ,

They get their nails did and do weird ass makeup looks because itā€™s a fun hobby.

xkcd.com/37/

Viking_Hippie ,

One of my all time favourite xkcd comics and thatā€™s saying a metric shitton!

uis ,
@uis@lemmy.world avatar

-10Ā° is cold day in Moscow? Thatā€™s warm day! Cold is -25Ā°.

tryptaminev ,

And the notion of what is looking good and bad is a result of heavily sexualized norms that are fed into girls at a young age already. In the effect women who chose not to wear makeup are facing backlash and are made to feel less confident.

So it isnā€™t just a fun hobby. It is also the expression and often submission to sexualized and sexist societal norms.

gmtom ,

Yeah women spend an hour on makeup before their shitty job they hate every morning because they just like it as a fun thing to do, totally nothing to do with societal pressures of beauty, itā€™s just a fun thing most women like to do to entertain themselves at 6am when they ainā€™t getting enough sleep as is.

LadyAutumn ,

Yeah youā€™re right women only put makeup on for work and never do it cause they want to, never use colors or styles they think are pretty, never take pictures of their makeup done to show to their friends, spend 0 time in communities dedicated to discussing techniques and styles that are popular

Youā€™re totally right we all only do it cause of social obligations and hate doing it

ShortFuse ,

Lady, sit down and take your mansplaining. /s

Gabu ,

Congratulations on falling for the final step of brainwashing: denying to having been brainwashed.

logos ,

Conspiracy theory logic.

Schumi ,

Wow, seems like you are the only reasonable person on lemmy. Kudos!

Users here love to hate other platforms for their hostile comments but continue to create an equally toxic environment just with a different flavor.

As long as people have fun and donā€™t hurt anybody, let them roam.

MonkderZweite ,

I made a .config/shell/shellrc.

cows_are_underrated ,

Didnā€™t had the fun to mess with my .bashrc, but I have to mess with the jdk-openjdk and the jre-openjdk package, which are in conflict. All help I found online didnā€™t work.

ShaunaTheDead , in Automation

Reminds me of an early application of AI where scientists were training an AI to tell the difference between a wolf and a dog. It got really good at it in the training data, but it wasn't working correctly in actual application. So they got the AI to give them a heatmap of which pixels it was using more than any other to determine if a canine is a dog or a wolf and they discovered that the AI wasn't even looking at the animal, it was looking at the surrounding environment. If there was snow on the ground, it said "wolf", otherwise it said "dog".

OsrsNeedsF2P ,

While I believe that, itā€™s an issue with the training data, and not the hardest to resolve

dondelelcaro ,

Maybe not the hardest, but still challenging. Unknown biases in training data are a challenge in any experimental design. Opaque ML frequently makes them more challenging to discover.

nova_ad_vitum , (edited )

The unknown biases issue has no real solution. In this same example if instead of something simple like snow in the background, it turned out that the photographs of wolves were taken using zoom lenses (since photogs donā€™t want to get near wild animals) while the dog photos were closeup and the ML was really just training to recognize subtle photographic artifacts caused by the zoom lenses, this would be extremely difficult to detect let alone prove.

dondelelcaro ,

Exactly.

The general approach is to use interpretable models where you can understand how the model works and what features it uses to discriminate, but that doesnā€™t work for all ML approaches (and even when it does our understanding is incomplete.)

Mirodir ,

So is the example with the dogs/wolves and the example in the OP.

As to how hard to resolve, the dog/wolves one might be quite difficult, but for the example in the OP, it wouldnā€™t be hard to feed in all images (during training) with randomly chosen backgrounds to remove the modelā€™s ability to draw any conclusions based on background.

However this would probably unearth the next issue. The one where the human graders, who were probably used to create the original training dataset, have their own biases based on race, gender, appearance, etc. This doesnā€™t even necessarily mean that they were racist/sexist/etc, just that they struggle to detect certain emotions in certain groups of people. The model would then replicate those issues.

Grandwolf319 ,

I bet ML would also think people with glasses are smarter or some dumb thing like that.

merc ,

Yes, ā€œBias Automationā€ is always an issue with the training data, and itā€™s always harder to resolve than anyone thinks.

StaticFalconar ,

Old data adage. Garbage in, garbage out.

Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In ,

Actually, in this case the data sounds pretty clean.

driving_crooner , (edited )
@driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br avatar

Early chess engine that used AI, were trained by games of GMs, and the engine would go out of its way to sacrifice the queen, because when GMs do it, itā€™s comes with a victory.

papalonian ,

Reg, whyā€™d you just stab yourself in the shoulder?

Ah cmon, ainā€™t ya ever seen a movie?

Well of course Iā€™ve seen a movie, but what the hell are ya doing?

Every time the guy stabs himself in a movie, itā€™s right before he kicks the piss outta the guy heā€™s fightinā€™!

Well that donā€™tā€¦ when that happens, the guys gotta plan Reg, what the hellā€™s your plan?

I dunno, but Iā€™m gonna find out!

MonkderDritte ,

Why would you use AI for chess?

Kazumara ,

You donā€™t use it for the rule-set and allowable moves, but to score board positions.

For a chess computer calculating all possible moves until the end of the game is not possible in the given time, because the number of potential moves grows exponentially with each further move. So you need to look at a few, and try to reject bad ones early, so that you only calculate further along promising paths.

So you need to be able to say what is a better board position and what is a worse one. Itā€™s complex to determine - in general - whether a position is better than another. Of course it is, otherwise everyone would just play the ā€œgoodā€ positions, and chess would be boring like solved games e.g. Tic-Tac-Toe.

Now to have your chess computer estimate board positions you can construct tons of rules and heuristics with expert knowledge to hopefully assign sensible values to positions. People do this. But you can also hope that there is some machine learnable patterns in the data that you can discover by feeding historical games and the information on who won into an ML model. People do this too. I think both are fair approaches in this instance.

KeenFlame ,

You can calculate all possible moves in milliseconds on any silicone these dsys

Kazumara ,

All possible moves one step from a given position sure.

But if you then take all possible resulting positions and calculate all moves from there, and then take all possible resulting positions after that second move and calculate all possible third moves from there, and so on, then the possibilities explode so much in number that you canā€™t calculate them anymore. Thatā€™s the exponential part I was refering to.

You can try and estimate them roughly, letā€™s say youā€™re somewhere in the middle of the game, there are 12 units of each side still alive. About half are pawns so we take 1.2 possible moves for them, for the others, well letā€™s say around 8, thats a bit much for horses and the king on average, but probably a bit low for other units. So 6 times 8 and 6 times 1.2, lets call it 55 possibilities. So the first move there are 55 possible positions, for the second you have to consider all of them and their new possibilitues so there are 55 times 55 or 3025, for the third thats 166375, then 9.15 million, 500 million, 27.6 billion, 1.5 trillion etc. That last one was only 7 moves in the future. Most games wonā€™t be finished by then from a given position, so you either need a scoring function or youā€™re running out of time.

KeenFlame ,

Yep, those are the moves that can all be easily calculated very quickly on modern hardware

Kazumara ,

No, they canā€™t

Dave ,
@Dave@lemmy.nz avatar

There are more possible chess moves (estimated at 10^120 for an average game) than there are atoms in the observable universe (estimated at 10^80). That is to say the number of possible chess moves has 40 more zeros on the end than the number of atoms in the observable universe.

Can you point to some souce showing how modern hardware can work these out easily?

KeenFlame ,

Itā€™s not wrong

kandoh ,

Thatā€™s funny because if I was trying to tell the difference between a wolf and a dog I would look for ā€˜is it in the woods?ā€™ and ā€˜how big is it relative to whatā€™s around it?ā€™.

Melvin_Ferd ,

What about telling the difference between a wolf and grandmother?

Sotuanduso ,

Look for a bonnet. Wolves donā€™t wear bonnets.

grue ,
jj4211 ,

Yeah, thatā€™s a grandmother, so what?

papalonian ,

I can confirm this. Iā€™m not a wolf expert, or even seen that many wolves really, but I have a dog and I donā€™t think sheā€™d wear a bonnet.

kelargo ,

Hot dog. Not hot dog

PP_BOY_ , in Here as well
@PP_BOY_@lemmy.world avatar

I love posts like this because it always has the subtle insinuation that weight gain is some moral failing on individuals instead of the natural result of allowing food producers across the board to sell the most unhealthy slop you could ever dream of while simultaneously making healthy food (literally just fresh, unprocessed items - i.e. the things that everyone ate for tens of thousands of years) a luxury item. This, of course, happening after food lobbyists successfully brainwashed entire generations of people with their shareholder-approved ā€œfood pyramid.ā€

End of rant

protist ,

Healthy food is absolutely not a luxury item. Iā€™ll accept the argument that the time to prepare healthy food is a luxury, but in almost every corner of the US you will find basic ingredients (eg rice, beans, carrots, celery, corn, potatoes, pasta) are way less expensive than the pre-prepared slop in boxes in the middle aisles of the store. People are addicted to that sugary shit and actively choose it

peopleproblems ,

You just used addicted and choose it in the same sentence.

Robin ,

I donā€™t think those are mutually exclusive. However, it takes energy and willpower to make a choice that goes against the nature of the addiction.

MataVatnik ,
@MataVatnik@lemmy.world avatar

Addiction means you have a strong impulse for it, but at the end of the day youā€™re still choosing.

zero_spelled_with_an_ecks ,

That is not, at all, the meeting of addicted.

GBU_28 ,

Addiction is the inability to stop doing something.

With the acknowledgement that addiction is a disease, whatā€™s happening is a part of the brain cannot stop choosing to do something, for a variety of legitimate chemical and habitual reasons

zero_spelled_with_an_ecks ,

ā€œCannot stop choosingā€

Come on.

GBU_28 ,

You choose to walk a direction, you choose to look out a window. Choice is a critical component of being human.

Addiction is the chemical overriding of the prioritization of choice.

"compulsively committed or helplessly drawn to a practice or habit or to something psychologically or physically habit-forming "

zero_spelled_with_an_ecks ,

Again: ā€œcompulsivelyā€ ā€œhelplesslyā€.

Look, if youā€™re not interested in admitting that words have meaning, youā€™re not arguing in good faith and Iā€™m done with you. Have a good one.

GBU_28 , (edited )

Lol yes. Choice has meaning. Choice here being dictated by compulsive behavior, or dominant chemical signaling is still choice. Like, your brain is doing it. Choice is not just ā€œwhat color shirt will I wear todayā€, it is far deeper.

Iā€™m not victim blaming or trying to fuck with you, I am focusing on the fact that words have meaning, and choice isnā€™t just a surface level, front brain thing. Choice is integral to the human condition, and choice and addiction are bedfellows. The latter dominating the former.

LemmysMum ,

Choice is, by definition, not subject to compulsion, and if it is subject to compulsion is not a willing choice, it is forced and influenced. If you want to be a pedantic asshole at least have the intellectual integrity to be right first.

GBU_28 ,

Compulsion is overridden choice!

Iā€™m not suggesting addiction is done flippant thing, itā€™s a serious disease.

Quit throwing around insults then claiming Iā€™m the one lacking integrity.

LemmysMum ,

And not a choice.

Yes, action against compulsion is an active choice, but to not do so is not suddenly a lack of active choice, just a lack of ability to enforce it.

If youā€™re concerned with what you are, be different.

GBU_28 ,

Iā€™m certainly not concerned, just making clear your ad hominem devalues your position.

Consider this paper regarding the very overlapping and complicated relationship between addiction, choice, and compulsion.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3736117/

LemmysMum ,

Consider a dictionary.

Iā€™ll repeat myself for your own benefit.

Yes, action against compulsion is an active choice, but to not do so is not suddenly a lack of active choice, just a lack of ability to enforce it.

Wilful ignorance devalues your position far more than an ad hominem ever will.

GBU_28 , (edited )

Mmk Iā€™ll Google those for you

Compulsion: an irresistible persistent impulse to perform an act

Impulse: a sudden desire, whim, or inclination

Inclination: a preference or tendency, or a feeling that makes a person want to do something

Preference: the power or opportunity of choosing

Addiction is the loss of power or opportunity to CHOOSE.

You seem obsessed with the assumption that I think addicts are just weakly choosing the wrong thing, or something. Thatā€™s very much not my suggestion. Deep in the core of the brain, chemical dependence pathways influence decisionmaking in a way the victim is unable to override.

LemmysMum ,

Now Google choice.

MataVatnik ,
@MataVatnik@lemmy.world avatar

As someone who has had physical and psychological dependency on substances I guess Iā€™ve never been addicted

GBU_28 ,

Psychological dependency is described in my comment via chemical and habitual

JackRiddle ,

ā€œPeople are addictedā€ and ā€œactively choose itā€ are contradictory statements. Addiction is a disease, not a personal failing.

gears ,

They still are choosing sugar?

Iā€™m addicted to nicotine and I actively choose to hit my vape, for example.

moriquende ,

Agree itā€™s a disease, but itā€™s also a choice. You choose to buy a big gulp when you crave it.

zero_spelled_with_an_ecks ,

Thatā€™s like saying losing chess against a grandmaster is a choice because you pick where the pieces go.

moriquende ,

How is choosing to buy a sugared drink instead of water the same as playing a game of chess against a grandmaster? What exactly about it makes your analogy fit?

zero_spelled_with_an_ecks ,

Hereā€™s a few ways:

Information: does an individual know chess rules? Openings? En passant? Do they want to spend the time and effort to learn? Are they getting their info from reliable sources or are they learning bongcloud and knooks?

Difference in skill level: the food and diet industries have thousands of specialists on their side with experience in psychology, advertisement, economics, lobbying, etc. Grandmasters can set up traps that new like a good idea to their opponent while thinking 10 steps ahead.

Complexity: chess and diet are not a single choice, but a series of choices, some of which make later moves more difficult.

Effort: it takes a long time to learn enough to even put up a decent resistance to a grandmaster, let alone win. Itā€™s more than Iā€™d care to put in. I donā€™t want to think about chess all the time. Thatā€™s called a chessing disorder.

moriquende ,

So your point is that itā€™s difficult to resist the urge to buy sugared drinks due to distinct factors such as lack of information about it being unhealthy (which I seriously doubt nowadays) and people being psychologically manipulated through advertisements and making their product economically competitive. I agree some of these factors make it easier to be unhealthy, but I disagree that itā€™s enough to say people donā€™t have and make a choice. The choice to be healthy is just a harder one to make than it should.

zero_spelled_with_an_ecks ,

Youā€™re straw manning me. Iā€™m not saying people donā€™t have a choice. But theyā€™re still going to lose. It doesnā€™t matter that I have a choice of which piece to move when the point is not to move pieces, but to checkmate. Saying there are choices misses the point.

moriquende ,

No it doesnā€™t because youā€™re arguing as if choices were dependant on one another. Choosing to avoid a coke one time doesnā€™t mean youā€™re now in a bad position to avoid another coke later on. Itā€™s not about winning or losing itā€™s about building habits and keeping them, which I have agreed is made hard in some peopleā€™s environment.

zero_spelled_with_an_ecks ,

So one choice doesnā€™t impact another unless itā€™s to make a habit? Come on, you canā€™t have a rule apply to my point but not to your point.

moriquende ,

The point Iā€™m making is that a game of chess has a conclusion, a destiny if you will, in which youā€™ll lose even if you make a good choice right now. Real life is not like that, your choice to be healthy now does not mean youā€™ve lost the opportunity to do so in the future, ultimately leading you to your ā€œdestinyā€ of being unhealthy. That is victim mentality and we shouldnā€™t endorse it. Still, I completely agree that making the unhealthy choice has become easier in recent times, and we should strive to reverse that trend.

zero_spelled_with_an_ecks ,

Oh, sorry, I didnā€™t know thatā€™s what real life was like. Thanks for setting me straight.

But yeah, being talked down the like that means Iā€™m done with you. Try to be less condescending when you disagree with people.

moriquende ,

I donā€™t believe I talked you down or stayed from a respectful tone, but if I made you feel like that I just want to say it was not my intention. In any case, have a good one!

GBU_28 ,

Iā€™d only refute the "active"part.

You physically choose to locomote towards the counter to make the purchase, you physically choose to lift the cup to your mouth.

The problem is your own mind is working against you to make that physical choice seem absolutely mandatory, via the importance of chemical signaling

original2 ,

I know about the uk but not USA. Food inequality is quite a big problem for low-income households.

ā€¦org.uk/ā€¦/Living-Without-Report-Final-Web.pdf

(Millions of Britons live without a freezer or oven)

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8976549/

(A large number of britons who dont own a car live over a mile from an outlet selling healthy food)

Etc

imPastaSyndrome ,

ā€œpotatoes and rice and corn and pastaā€ HEALTHY INGREDIENTS

Thwompthwomp ,

I was also reading an article about nutritional quality of food itself has been declining over the last 50 years. So to get the same nutritional amount, you need to eat more food period.

Thereā€™s also bigger systemic issues about food access that is driving people to ā€œchooseā€ it. Lack of time, cost, availability, transportation all factor in that are beyond a simple idea if a person having a pure choice between two equal (or even somewhat equal) options.

protist ,

Totally agree with this

Viking_Hippie ,

almost every corner of the US you will find basic ingredients (eg rice, beans, carrots, celery, corn, potatoes, pasta) are way less expensive than the pre-prepared slop in boxes

Someone never heard about food deserts.

People are addicted to that sugary shit and actively choose it

Way to victim-blame both addicts and people with little to no healthy choices available.

gears ,

However, a number of studies suggest that poor health in ā€œfood desertsā€ is primarily caused by differences in demand for healthy food, rather than differences in availability.

Low healthy food demand == choosing sugar

Viking_Hippie , (edited )

First of all, thatā€™s one ā€œdevilā€™s advocate howeverā€ in an article full of information to the contrary.

Second of all, Iā€™d be interested in seeing who funded those studies. Lobbying groups for different unhealthy foods as well as grocery stores looking for excuses to not cater to poor people often fund junk studies that say exactly what they want them to. Just like Big Tobacco did and political groups still do.

Third, addiction still ā‰  choice and sugar is more addictive than most narcotics.

zero_spelled_with_an_ecks ,

Just on your last point, sugar is not more addictive than narcotics. Thatā€™s complete bunk. Provide a primary source for that claim if you want to refute me, but all those headlines about that topic were sensational and were basically based on sugar lighting up the same part of the brain as narcotics, namely the pleasure areas. So we like them both, but that has no bearing on addictiveness.

mob ,

Huh, guess I might technically live in a food dessert

low-income census tracts that are more than one mile from a supermarket in urban or suburban areas and more than 10 miles from a supermarket in rural areas.

SuperIce ,

More than 1 mile in suburban areas is extremely common, but I wouldnā€™t consider most of them to be good desserts.

onkyo ,

Many people in the US also live in food deserts where easy access to healthy food IS a luxuary due to simply not being able to buy it where they live or work.

IWantToFuckSpez ,

Maybe itā€™s a bit of both though. People still have free will. You can eat unhealthy shit and not become morbidly obese.

NABDad ,

Free will is a lie we tell ourselves.

MYCOOLNEJM ,
@MYCOOLNEJM@sh.itjust.works avatar

Is someone force-feeding you?

irmoz ,

Is that really the only scenario you can think of that limits your food choices?

MYCOOLNEJM ,
@MYCOOLNEJM@sh.itjust.works avatar

Itā€™s

ā€œHmmm this food that I have right now has a lot of calories, maybe I should change it or eat less of itā€

VS

ā€œayyy lmao, itā€™s the big food industry leaving me no choice, imma destroy this fucking burgerā€

zero_spelled_with_an_ecks ,

More like:

ā€œI can spend a ton of executive function thinking about and preparing food in a way contrary to what the food industry and their advertisers, food engineers, psychologist, etc., try to get a person to do while having only a slight chance at losing weight if Iā€™ve already gained it. Iā€™ll probably do so by getting involved in the super scammy diet industry.ā€

Vs

ā€œI donā€™t want to spend that much of my life thinking about, preparing, tracking food (maybe because I have an eating disorder/medical issue/mental health issues, maybe because itā€™s just not worth it to me)ā€

Itā€™s also not just a choice, itā€™s dozens of choices every day, forever.

Youā€™re way oversimplifying it. Weā€™re not going to magically get better humans, so maybe changing the systems would be a better way to get results than relying on people and industry to change their behavior (which is obviously not working).

MYCOOLNEJM ,
@MYCOOLNEJM@sh.itjust.works avatar

Lol, nah

zero_spelled_with_an_ecks ,

Yeah, on second thought, you do make a good point.

lightnsfw ,

Even if you only have access to garbage food you can still limit your caloric intake. I eat fast food every day I work and Iā€™m a healthy weight. Itā€™s not difficult at all.

zero_spelled_with_an_ecks ,

ā€œItā€™s easy for me, therefore itā€™s easy for anybody.ā€

lightnsfw ,

Itā€™s simple math if you canā€™t do that idk what to tell you.

zero_spelled_with_an_ecks ,

Itā€™s not simple math. Itā€™s biology, sociology, psychology, medicine, etc.

lightnsfw ,

All you have to do is know how many calories you need in a day (this is easily available online)and keep track of how many youā€™re eating (again nutritional info is easily available online). If you want to get really fancy with it you can look at protein/carbs/fat specifically.

Everything else comes down to self control and making excuses. If you have problems with snacking donā€™t keep snacks in the house or at least serve them in a reasonable portion instead of sitting with the bag and shoveling them down your gullet for an hour before you realize what youā€™ve done to yourself. If you only have fast food options buy al a carte items instead of the XXL Big Mac combo with a 1/2 gallon of coke. A bit of self awareness when you are choosing what you consume is all it takes.

zero_spelled_with_an_ecks ,

CICO is not only reductive to the point of being useless, itā€™s also bad advice for weight loss or maintenance.

Consistent throughout many studies, calorie restriction induces a reduction in energy expenditure that is larger than the loss of metabolic mass, i.e. fat-free mass and fat mass, can explain.

In laymenā€™s terms: the body reduces metabolism in response to weight loss.

You donā€™t seem to understand the topic beyond a few catchphrases, so Iā€™m done interacting with you. Have a good one.

lightnsfw ,

Iā€™ve practiced CICO most of my adult life. Both when I wanted to gain weight and when I wanted to lose it. It works. The body can only reduce metabolism so much. If you maintain a deficit you will lose weight. When Iā€™m cutting I can plan almost exactly how long it will take to get where I want to be just by tracking calories.

NABDad ,

I was only commenting on the concept of free will. Doesnā€™t matter where you apply it, weā€™re all just following our programming.

Obviously, the program is incredibly complex, otherwise the illusion of free will wouldnā€™t be so easy to believe.

However, there are many examples where the programming becomes apparent.

The best example of this is a radio lab episode about a woman with transient global amnesia. Her memory reset every 90 seconds, and she kept repeating the same conversation over and over for hours. Like a program stuck in a loop.

Radiolab, Transient Global Amnesia - SoundCloud m.soundcloud.com/ā€¦/radiolab-transient-global-amneā€¦

She couldnā€™t choose to say something else. Given the same input, she would repeat the same response every time. She didnā€™t have the ability to realize she had already said it, so she just kept looping.

MYCOOLNEJM ,
@MYCOOLNEJM@sh.itjust.works avatar

Yeah, but this post is about fat people and not transdimentional whatever the fuck youā€™re talking about

yamapikariya ,
@yamapikariya@lemmyfi.com avatar

You dropped your tinfoil hat

NABDad ,

I donā€™t wear tinfoil hats. What about not believing in free will means Iā€™d wear a tinfoil hat?

yamapikariya ,
@yamapikariya@lemmyfi.com avatar

Why not? Iā€™m actually curious now.

NABDad ,

Waitā€¦ Why not wear tinfoil hats or why not believe in free will?

yamapikariya ,
@yamapikariya@lemmyfi.com avatar

The free will part. Itā€™s just usually Iā€™ve heard it from people that think weā€™re in a simulation.

stjobe ,

Plenty of philosophers over the centuries have thought long and hard about the free will problem, and not all of them have come out on the side of it existing. David Hume, for instance, had to resort to religion to solve his issues with it (God made us have free will), and several contemporary philosophers have come down firmly on the ā€œdeterministic but complex enough to look non-deterministicā€ side of the fence. in essence, that free will is an illusion, but a good enough one that we still feel like we have it.

yamapikariya ,
@yamapikariya@lemmyfi.com avatar

Okay fair enough. But thatā€™s philosophy and doesnā€™t really translate to the physical properties of the universe. I do understand what youā€™re saying from the philosophical point of view. I did read both responses you sent.

NABDad ,

I mentioned my reasoning in another post in the thread

FierroGamer ,

Why is it either or? I can see a world where computer enthusiasts tend to be a bit more physically inactive than the median

lobut , (edited )

I think you have great points, but I also donā€™t want to absolve personal responsibility entirely. I think I saw Boogie for on the Financial Audit and spends $900 per month on fast food? Thereā€™s definitely food deserts and busy people with busy lives and bad education. Absolutely. I also find that healthier living was easier in the UK as grocery stores had ready-made meals easier to access with better options. However, I do think thereā€™s also a component of personal accountability for those that know the right thing to do and choose not to.

KevonLooney ,

Both things can be true. People can be addicted or have limited access to food, but still choose poorly from their limited choices. Itā€™s a ā€œdiminished capacityā€ to make and choose healthy food.

Yes, premade food has gotten more expensive and worse nutritionally. So choose better among your limited choices. Thereā€™s no one who actually has no options for fruit, vegetables, or meat. It just takes time to shop and cook.

Cold_Brew_Enema ,

Sounds like an excuse to me

GBU_28 ,

Healthy food is very cheap.

Time to prepare and access may contribute, but the food itself is not a luxury item.

fireweed , (edited )

This little bit of news has been hitting the media circuit this week: Americans are eating a mealā€™s worth of calories in snack foods every day

ā€¦the average American had between 400 and 500 calories worth of snacks a day, which is typically more than what they ate at breakfast. Even worse, the snacks usually carried little to no nutritional value

All food has gotten expensive due to inflation/greedflation, but (at least in my area) snacks, desserts, and some sugary drinks got hit especially hard. Except maybe for people living in food deserts, snacks are way more of a luxury good than ā€œwholeā€ foods are nowadays.

vsh ,
@vsh@lemm.ee avatar

if kernel developers can afford a PC, then they can afford fucking food

RagingHungryPanda ,

not with the PC they bought

guiguinofake ,

Yeah but they fuck their food so there is none left to eat

daltotron ,

Also fucked up is that fat doesnā€™t = bad. I dunno when this came about but you can be unhealthy and skinny as well, and you can be unhealthy and jacked. I wonā€™t say that, kind of along the lines of a bodybuilder, itā€™s easy to be healthy and be fat, but you can do it. Sumo wrestlers. You want that subcutaneous fat, and not that visceral fat, and you wanna have good cardio and heart health.

Part of the reason why people become super fat is because they enter a kind of death spiral where they donā€™t believe theyā€™ll ever get better, and then they eat more, because whatā€™s the point if youā€™ll never get better at all. Part of the reason why they think theyā€™ll never get better is because people are constantly telling them thatā€™s the case, and that theyā€™re at fault for being the way they are, when usually people get really fat through some childhood trauma or mental disorder. Iā€™m not gonna blame someone for that, or demand they ā€œtake responsibilityā€ for it. Especially if them ā€œtaking responsibilityā€ for it just ends up making them eat more slop.

Itā€™s really not that complicated. Positive reinforcement and active help is a lot better in these situations than demanding that people be held accountable for being so fat, or that itā€™s their choice, or whatever. I donā€™t really care to argue the semantics of philosophies of ā€œfree willā€ or whatever, Iā€™m just saying people need to not be dicks to fat people, because thatā€™s more productive to making them be healthy.

Kase ,

Hear hear. And it wouldnā€™t matter to me even if being fat were automatically a death sentence and the only reason people got that way was laziness. Even if it were a simple choice that someone made, itā€™s still none of my business, yā€™know?

daltotron ,

Itā€™s both none of my business, and being a dick isnā€™t an effective way to get them to change. I dunno why so many people kind of have that as like, a default response. I guess it makes sense to get mad when someone you care about ā€œchoosesā€ to self-destruct, but people are complicated and delicate machines, and they require better maintenance than the nuclear option, and ultimatums.

I think part of why people have this sort of desire for everyone to have agency, they have this narrative, is because itā€™s the only way that theyā€™ll be able to keep dealing with all these shitty things in their life. Itā€™s like a really bad survival strategy, or something, people become kind of fucked up and then they only function if they have this dire sense of internal pressure at all times, that theyā€™re responsible for everything that happens in their life. Itā€™s weird, and I donā€™t really get it.

Kusimulkku ,

Can be either or both

MargotRobbie , in Redditor when women
@MargotRobbie@lemmy.world avatar

You mean women are people who knows how to navigate to a website, sign up for accounts, and express our own points of view on different topics? How could this be possible?

bob_wiley ,
@bob_wiley@lemmy.world avatar

Itā€™s not that people donā€™t think women have the capability. There is just a general assumption that theyā€™re smart enough not to waste their time with it and they have better things to do, like actual hobbies and friends/family to see.

When I have time to kill I dick around online and usually ignore anything else I could do. Every woman I know is making scrapbooks, knitting her own hats and some more for others, taking care of some kids, building and maintaining relationships with people in the real world, cooking amazing food just because they want it, getting involved in the community, working some extra side jobs, and generally doing stuff to make their world and the world around them better.

Why do you assume the assumption that everyone is a guy online is somehow the result of a negative view on women?

glibg10b ,

There is just a general assumption that theyā€™re smart enough not to waste their time with it and they have better things to do, like actual hobbies and friends/family to see.

Did you actually ask other people what they think, or are you projecting? Because this doesnā€™t represent me at all

bob_wiley ,
@bob_wiley@lemmy.world avatar

Iā€™m projecting, but also, I said it was an assumption thatā€™s generally held, not a hard fact that everyone does or should believe. We all know different people and that will color or views.

SpaceNoodle ,

Every woman I know is playing Baldurā€™s Gate 3

Tar_alcaran ,

Am woman, currently at work, but will continue playing BG3 when I get back home. So this checks out.

kofe ,

Not me. Iā€™m catching up on all of the assassinā€™s creed before getting the new one

shuzuko ,

hastily closes steam window showing over 250 hours of BG3 played so far

My husband is mad because Iā€™m further in the story than him, lol

SpaceNoodle ,

My wife and I are waiting until marriage until we have some free time this holiday to play it co-op. Weā€™ve had similar problems in the past with games like Warcraft 3, but the amazing coop system in the Borderlands franchise has allowed us to log hundreds (if not thousands) of hours playing together - hoping that BG3 works similarly well enough.

shuzuko ,

The co-op is pretty good, though there are a few tiny frustrations - I canā€™t automatically use an npc party memberā€™s skills in conversations (like guidance or bardic inspiration) if theyā€™re under my husbandā€™s control instead of mine, for instance. Our problem is that we both want to finish the storyline for ourselves before making storyline decisions in our co-op campaign and I have an entire day off that he doesnā€™t thanks to working 4 10s instead of 5 8s. So I have to wait for him to push ahead in his campaign before we can play ours, but I can just play mine at my leisure, lol.

activ8r ,

Generally held by who? Because itā€™s not the general public.
Seems like itā€™s just you at the moment.

bob_wiley ,
@bob_wiley@lemmy.world avatar

I guessā€¦ maybe I just know a bunch of really motivated women. None of them spend time one sites like this, They do shit.

kayrae_42 ,

The fact you think motivation, caring for you family, and having social media are mutually exclusive says a lot about you. If you think women on Reddit, lemmy, whatever social media are unmotivated because they donā€™t knit hats and care for children or whatever you define as womanhood you might need to reflect on what you think womanhood is outside of your personal experiences with the women in your social bubble.

Women might use Reddit or lemmy or a number of social media sites to find a social group to connect with that they donā€™t have in their immediate area, just like men do. They are normal people who donā€™t have to adhere to whatever gender ideologies society wants to ascribe to them. Also spending time on sites like this can just be an hour in the morning or evening not an entire life so you might never see them do it.

shuzuko ,

Jokeā€™s on him, Iā€™m totally unmotivated and I knit(well, crochet) hats. In fact, I craft to avoid responsibilities, lol

cashews_best_nut ,

Excuse me?! Being on Lemmy is ā€œdoing shitā€. VERY important shit. I have shit to read and memes to laugh at. There is nothing more important in life.

wombatula ,

Pretty big self report there lmao.

Darkhoof ,
@Darkhoof@lemmy.world avatar

I choose to believe your post is finely crafted satire.

Tar_alcaran ,

Finely?

wombatula ,

Every woman I know is making scrapbooks, knitting her own hats and some more for others, taking care of some kids

Wowā€¦ thereā€™s a lot to unpack hereā€¦ have you ever met a woman before?

bob_wiley ,
@bob_wiley@lemmy.world avatar

I have. The most recent woman I saw was my sister, who does literally all the things I mentioned, and has probably never been on reddit. She might not even know what it is.

wombatula ,

Oh cool she definitely represents the entire female population of the world. Maybe you should go try and meet a second or even third woman (not including your mother), it might give you a broader perspective.

bob_wiley ,
@bob_wiley@lemmy.world avatar

I wasnā€™t aware you wanted a list of everyone woman Iā€™ve ever met. Iā€™m not going to provide that, as itā€™s insane. Thatā€™s why I simply mentioned just the most recent. I also didnā€™t say anything about the entire female population in the world, thatā€™s a bunch of spin you made up in your head. Stop being so sensitive and trying to make things out to be worse than they are. I donā€™t know you, nor was I thinking about you when I made the post; you donā€™t need to take it personally.

Texas_Hangover ,

Is your sister even real bro?

wombatula ,

You really are confused, I never asked for a list, and didnā€™t take this personally in any way.

I just think you have some weird misogynistic views of what a woman is, and what their interests are.

teuast ,

my sister frequently sends me reddit memes and tried for years to get me to play league of legends

kofe ,

This comment is so sad lmao. Let me introduce you to this awesome idea, and I ask that you please read it in the SpongeBob voice for ā€œimaginationā€: anecdotes arenā€™t evidence

SCB ,

Your sister sounds kinda boring ngl

Kase ,

broā€™s only example of women who donā€™t use reddit is a woman he assumes doesnā€™t use reddit

someacnt ,

I did not meet women in person, but I heard lots of them just hang out on instagram, posting their best moments online. Ofc similar for some good-looking men as well. Thatā€™s why I assume most people here are either men or lgbtq+.

wombatula ,

So anyone on a website other than instagram is an ugly man or a lesbianā€¦

ā€¦man the hot takes just keep coming donā€™t they?

someacnt ,

Huh, I never said ugly. Do not put words in my mouth.

wombatula ,

good-looking men as well

Whatā€™s the opposite of good-looking? I swear context is impossible for most people on the internet.

someacnt ,

Average-looking men, obviously.

wombatula ,

You donā€™t understand what words mean, do you?

someacnt ,

Huh?

rwhitisissle ,

Iā€™m almost guaranteeing that the person you are replying to is making a joke, because of how ludicrous it sounds. ā€œI did not meet women in person, but I heard lots of them just hang out on instagramā€ implies that the commenter has literally never met a woman in their entire life and only knows about them via a website that theyā€™ve never even been to themselves, as the information about them being on instagram is itself second hand. Like, it literally makes women sound like cryptids.

Syrc ,

But like, how is a human being possible without penis and balls? Where does the pee come from? Where do they store it?

I donā€™t know man, seems a bit too surreal to me.

wombatula ,

Go look at their reply (or post history) then tell me that.

idiomaddict , (edited )

Iā€™m a woman. My most frequently practiced hobbies are watching my fiancĆ© cook, playing with my cat, dicking around on the internet, and playing word games. Because hobbies are to relax and Iā€™m working and getting a Masters. When I had more time, I also danced a bunch and played PokĆ©mon go.

The things the women in your life are doing, are providing services for the people around them, through food, knitted goods, and photo albums. Women also want a break, but we donā€™t get one if no one in our lives gives us one.

Six years ago, my terrible ex would have said that I loved reading organizational blogs and baking, but thatā€™s because he was a slob whose family had weekly parties that I was expected to bake for. Maybe all the women in your life are stepford bots, but maybe you should try learning to knit or cook with some of them, and see if they branch out or just need some help.

Edit: grammar

cashews_best_nut ,

I learnt cross stitch off me mum as a lad.

DoomsdaySprocket ,

TL:DR for the folks at home:

ā€œThe things the women in your life are doing, is providing service for the people around themā€¦.ā€

ā€œWomen also want a break, but we donā€™t get one if no one in our lives gives us one. [note: or if we take it, with all the risks that may or may not entail.]

No, itā€™s not just women; yes, it often is women due to social factors.

idiomaddict ,

I completely overlooked the mistake until now, it should be: ā€œare providing services for the people around themā€¦ā€

DoomsdaySprocket ,

I got what you mean, I was just agreeing with you, I donā€™t correct anyone until at least 2 hours after getting out of bed anyway.

bandario ,
@bandario@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Sorry about the grainy, difficult to read image. I am on mobile and couldnā€™t find a better version right now.

I think you might have misunderstood one of the primary internet rules ā€œThere are no girls on the internet.ā€

If you squint, youā€™ll work it out.

i.imgur.io/f2rLQ_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thā€¦

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

When I have time to kill I dick around online and usually ignore anything else I could do. Every woman I know is making scrapbooks, knitting her own hats and some more for others, taking care of some kids, building and maintaining relationships with people in the real world, cooking amazing food just because they want it, getting involved in the community, working some extra side jobs, and generally doing stuff to make their world and the world around them better.

Are there any women you know who arenā€™t housewives?

PsychedSy ,

If kids means dogs this is my mom. Sheā€™s retired and Iā€™m her roommate. Itā€™s kinda nice.

I_Clean_Here ,

Nice neckbeard energy you got there. Especially how you tried to double down and all. My ladyā€™ing the shit out of this.

Blapoo ,

I donā€™t understand why men are even on here. Every man I know is so busy chopping down trees, wrestling bears and building log cabins. How does anyone on here even find the time!?

Are you all even real!?!?

PsychedSy ,

Whoah. I spend time drinking alcohol straight from the bottle, too.

ShaggySnacks ,

*Looks at red plaid shirt,**Looks at wood cutters axe,*Touches beard.

I feel so singled out.

Edit: Commas are our friend.

jaybone ,

Hold my bear, Iā€™m typing a reply.

MissJinx ,
@MissJinx@lemmy.world avatar

Iā€™m a woman and I do knit and bake as a hobby, I also 3d print and design, do some robotics and Iā€™m a cybersecurity professional. I have joined and participate in online communities for all of those TBF the crochet community in Reddit is one of the most awesome and welcoming i have ever seen.

jaybone ,

If they are so busy with all of that, who is going to do the dishes?

dylanTheDeveloper ,
@dylanTheDeveloper@lemmy.world avatar

Skill issue

Afghaniscran ,
Land_Strider ,

Excellent gif from and excellent animated movie.

MargotRobbie ,
@MargotRobbie@lemmy.world avatar

ā€¦ OK, first time Iā€™ve ever got this reaction for something I thought that was pretty obvious.

Afghaniscran ,

It is, I didnā€™t mean any harm, I was just playing into a joke.

MargotRobbie ,
@MargotRobbie@lemmy.world avatar

Itā€™s all good!

kamenlady ,
@kamenlady@lemmy.world avatar

Itā€™s all good!

Itā€™s all good man!

would sound just like

Saul goodman!

ā€¦

Making an account named Margot Robbie? Classic Kim Wexler! Gotcha!

blackbrook , in Real Facebook ad that doubles as a god-tier shitpost

Finally, a razor thatā€™s specialized for shaving assholes!

mysticpickle ,

Jesus fuck thatā€™s some 3rd degree burn šŸ˜‚

1995ToyotaCorolla ,
@1995ToyotaCorolla@lemmy.world avatar

Almost as bad as the burn youā€™ll get from their razors

HootinNHollerin ,

Jeremyā€™s Rectal Razors

moody , in first things first

Thatā€™s a wildlife bridge in progress. It allows wild animals to cross the highway without getting run over.

Ilovethebomb ,

They do something similar with railway underpasses, place the tunnel and build the embankment later.

Hello_there ,

These are super important for wildlife like mountain lions and bears

Crackhappy ,
@Crackhappy@lemmy.world avatar

What about tigers?

ElmarsonTheThird ,

Not where this bridge is built. This looks like a German autobahn, so the closest thing to a tiger crossing that is either a lynx or a fox.

PrimeErective ,

ā€¦ Oh my

maniii ,

Tigers exist natively is so few places, the question itself makes little to no sense.

Bengal Tiger == Marshland

Siberian Tiger == Tundra

Asian Tiger == Plateau/Deep Forest

Indonesian/Sumatran Tiger == Coast?Islands?Dense Tropical Jungle?

Drusas ,

It's a reference. "Lions and tigers and bears, oh my."

Timely_Jellyfish_2077 ,

How do they know to cross the road through the bridge instead of road. Itā€™s not like they understand that the bridge is for them to cross safely.

Also we have to construct many bridges throughout the road across forest area. Isnā€™t it cheaper to build flyover for vehicles instead.

reversebananimals ,

Iā€™m assuming youā€™re asking in good faith.

With these corridors, they fence the road so that the animals can only pass over the bridge. And youre right, sometimes they do raise the road and let animals pass under. It depends on the topography.

Hereā€™s more information: en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wildlife_croā€¦

bundtpan ,

youtu.be/RFCrJleggrI?si=EIPxGhw6ZBF6dVSy

This is the first thing to come to mindā€¦

Annoyed_Crabby ,

Seems like they already done the wildlife bridge, what yet to finish is the animal crossing that goes on top of the wildlife bridge.

Track_Shovel ,

When we design things like this in reclamation, there is often the concern that the designed feature can act like a trap or increase predation. There was an article a while back that showed that these are actually safe, and blend into the surrounding landscape in terms of risk to the animals.

Oh look, someone actually backing their viewpoint up on the internet:

Link

Swedneck ,
@Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

iā€™d imagine that risk would be easily outweighed by animals being able to safely cross anyways, not like predators just sit there inhaling prey unceasingly, they would go there to catch something then leave with their food to go eat.

Track_Shovel ,

While youā€™re right, in that predators wonā€™t sit there, doing their best to get on Season 8 of My 600-lb life, they definitely exploit linear corridors like this if they arenā€™t properly constructed. Transmission lines, for instance, can be really gnarly for ungulates. Both predators and prey are smart. For predators, if thereā€™s an easy meal to be had, theyā€™ll continue to over-use this feature on the landscape, rather than the rest of their habitat (why cook, when you can order in?). This in and of itself is an impact on the natural ecosystem, and something we try to avoid, when the goal is ā€˜no impactā€™ or ā€˜as close to no impact as possibleā€™.

From a prey standpoint, if you see Jim-Bob getting ripped apart by wolves, or got chased by pack of hungry wolves, youā€™d be pretty hesitant to use that feature again, now wouldnā€™t you? In this regard, not properly designing these things can essentially render them useless to ungulates and the like, and prevent the re-connection of the two polygons (areas) weā€™re trying to connect.

Pyr_Pressure ,

I sent it better to funnel wildlife into traps for predators than to have the wildlife killed by vehicles on a road, attracting those predators onto the road seeking out their carcasses only to be hit by vehicles themselves?

Many owls and raptors get killed because they are trying to feed on a carcass in the road and get hit themselves.

Knossos ,

Ah thank you for the context!

Blackmist ,

Also seen one like this thatā€™s avalanche defences.

randon31415 ,

Got to protect those Mako reactors!

gregorum , (edited ) in Tacos.

This person is openly telling you that the only thing stopping them from being a shitty person is some myth about otherworldly punishment after they die.

Which, of course, means theyā€™ll be juuuust as shitty as they believe they can get away with.

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah, the ā€œwhy be good if thereā€™s no God/Hellā€ is a disturbing as fuck argument, because it essentially says that if they decide that their god wants them to start killing, theyā€™ll do it.

Iā€™m good because if I do something bad, I feel bad about it. Itā€™s pretty simple.

gregorum ,

exactly. i understand that doing bad things is bad because i feel guilt and shame when i do bad things. conversely, i feel good when i do good things. I also understand the broader implications of both-- not to mention that i have empathy and can see the impact of my actions upon others while caring as well.

i donā€™t need a fairy tale to threaten me with eternal torture in order to not be a sociopath.

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Thatā€™s the problem. These people lack empathy. They donā€™t feel happy when they make someone else happy unless they get something more than that out of it.

7U5K3N ,

If you and I have an interaction that leaves us both happy, thatā€™s socialism and GOPJesus frowns on socialism.

gregorum , (edited )

because theyā€™ve been taught that life is a zero-sum game: if anyone elseā€™s life improves - even just a little - it must necessarily come at the cost of someone elseā€™s life getting worse. this isnā€™t true, of course, but they canā€™t see life as any other way, so the ideas of equality and working together to improve society are antithetical to their worldview. theyā€™re to be fought. They have an ā€œevery man for himselfā€ philosophy, and itā€™s nothing but selfish, self-centered solipsism.

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

And it also makes them treat their kids like shit.

Why make your kid feel good if you donā€™t gain anything?

gregorum ,

it also teaches their kid that selfish motivations and material rewards are the only things of value, and that theyā€™re worth liying, cheating, and even stealing for-- as long as you donā€™t get caught, because right and wrong are only a matter of the consequences one may personally face. and, even then, itā€™s a cost-benefit analysis. again, the zero-sum game.

deadbeef79000 , (edited )

The number of murderers who claim good God told them to do it is non-zero.

gregorum ,

who claim good told them

Was this a typo?

deadbeef79000 ,

Yes, rather an autocorrect-o.

chatokun ,

I had a coworker catholic who both said that statement, and also argued animals had no souls, so no one should ever get in trouble for animal abuse. Along with his ridiculously heated response to any government involvement in Healthcare, and the way he got close to yelling when discussing these topics while also claiming he was just being logical, not emotional. Why yes he did call women emotional, how did you know?

People like him scare me, because it sounds like if he could use some religious context to say I didnā€™t have a soul, heā€™d probably come to the same conclusion he did about dogs.

NewNewAccount ,

One of those increasingly more common conservative Catholics. Disappointing.

MonkderDritte ,

And being nice just makes your (and others) life nicer.

MxM111 ,

Well, that's why this is on shitpost.

gnutrino ,

Thatā€™s for what comes after the Tacos I think.

dojan ,
@dojan@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah thatā€™s my takeaway from that argument as well. If you have to be threatened by some vague notion of a future punishment in order to not be a complete dickwad, youā€™re clearly not a good person.

Why be good if thereā€™s no hell? Because to live is to suffer. Society sucks. Accepting that, working past it, and being kind to those around you makes everything slightly more bearable. You are to be kind to others because itā€™s the right thing to be.

Buddahriffic ,

One crisis of faith away from a murder spree.

Cryophilia ,

Happened to a relative of mine, kind of. Went on a drug and debauchery spree. Not the fun way. Hard drugs, seriously addictive. Stole from the family, we all disowned them. Ended up hitting someone while driving under the influence and killing them. Went to jail, supposedly got sober, but Iā€™m still no-contact.

Fedizen , (edited )

also the bible says genocide is ok and its ok to do all sorts of things to folks who arenā€™t your ā€œneighborā€

ninjakitty7 , in Milk

Someone who ordered oat milk to begin with shouldnt have any troubles navigating the world of milk.

Emerald ,

Eh. Oat milk is really popular for some reason. It could very likely be the only other milk they know. If someone was drinking rice or soy milk though then yeah I donā€™t know how they wouldnā€™t be familiar.

HardlightCereal ,

I tried soy milk before I tried oat milk because soy was the only cruelty free milk I knew about. But I eventually tried all the varieties and determined that oat milk tastes the best.

Krauerking ,

Itā€™s pretty good. Creamy, not too grainy or anything, tastes pretty good with the vanilla and doesnā€™t use nearly the amount of water crop wise.

But also I can cook with it.
But I do look forward to if that yeast milk ever makes it to market.

GCostanzaStepOnMe ,

Oat milk tastes like oats. Which is good if you want to taste oats, and bad if you want to taste anything else.

Karyoplasma ,

Another one I like is coconut + rice. Itā€™s more like a milky drink than milk, but itā€™s tasty.

Pipoca ,

Soy milk is great, but itā€™s not a good milk substitute.

It should taste beany, and thatā€™s not really what I want with my cereal. A Chinese cruller, on the other handā€¦

Emerald ,

Iā€™ve only had soy milk so I guess I am just blind to the world of plant milks

CurlyMoustache ,
@CurlyMoustache@lemmy.world avatar

Is that a free-to-play game like World of Tanks!?

TAG ,
@TAG@lemmy.world avatar

No, subscription based, like World of Warcraft.

Quacksalber , (edited ) in Stay Mad, Tankies

I think the real upsetting thing isnā€™t Bidenā€™s performance, or having Biden as president for four more years. He achieved quite a bit after all. The real upsetting thing is the DNC being such cunts that they even pushed for this debate, hoping that Biden could win, only to deny and ignore Bidenā€™s abhorrent performance immediately after. That Bernie got shafted twice by them, that is the really upsetting part.

_sideffect ,

They could be rotten from the inside as well, knowing full well how it would go

riodoro1 ,

I wouldnā€™t be surprised

whocares314 ,

It seems pretty obvious to me at this point that the DNC would rather lose than have an actual progressive win. None of the shitty things that Trump wants to do will hurt them, (stupid take if they cared at all about their descendants but theyā€™re either too arrogant or too ignorant to worry about that) but actual progressive policies that helped average people WOULD hurt their way of life. Marginally. Like, the tiniest little amount. Like, your yacht can only have one master bedroom instead of four. But why give that up when you donā€™t have to?

ā€œItā€™s a big club, and you ainā€™t in itā€

Iā€™m voting for Biden though, and Iā€™ll keep voting as progressively as possible in the down ballot elections. If a progressive movement from the bottom up can start by doing things like getting rid of FPTP, we still have a chance. And to anyone thinking about not voting, please do. The president is one person. They are the single most powerful person individually, (taking aside impact on the judicial system) but the collective impact on your day to day life is far more influenced by down ballot positions. Research your down ballot candidates and vote. Many of those races are decided by only a handful of votes. Yours matters.

crusa187 ,

DNC would rather lose than have an actual progressive win

This was made perfectly clear in 2016 when Hillary stole the nom by colluding with Debbie Wasserman-Schultz.

If people havenā€™t caught on by now, they havenā€™t been paying attention. Or are just willfully ignorant.

pivot_root ,

It seems pretty obvious to me at this point that the DNC would rather lose than have an actual progressive win.

Itā€™s not in their interests to let a progressive win. Just like their counterpart, the DNC takes a shit ton of bribery donations from corporations lobbyists. Bringing in a progressive who would reform the system or push back against pro-corporate policies is biting the hands that feed them.

TheBat ,
@TheBat@lemmy.world avatar

DNC shouldā€™ve started promoting someone else as Presidential candidate since the last 4 years and let Biden work quietly in the background.

tostiman ,
@tostiman@sh.itjust.works avatar

Democratic Nation of Congo?

Maggoty ,

Democratic National Committee.

rambling_lunatic ,

youtu.be/aDfp-QsH51w?t=2018

Sorry, Piped and other frontends isnā€™t working right now, so youā€™ll have to use normal YouTube or go through VLC.

photonic_sorcerer ,
@photonic_sorcerer@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Or simply have YouTube links redirected to NewPipe.

Pandantic ,
@Pandantic@midwest.social avatar

The title of this video is ā€œAn Anarchistic Watches West Wingā€ or something similar. I only watched 20mins but it was good so far. Itā€™s a criticism of the American Capitalist system, American Democracy (power of the president, presidential hero worship), etc. via the way itā€™s portrayed in the West Wing.

rambling_lunatic ,

Aye. The timestamp I linked specifically talks about something talked about in this thread, which is that the DNC would rather have the far right win than move left.

Pandantic , (edited )
@Pandantic@midwest.social avatar

Iā€™m using my appā€™s built in video player and I guess it didnā€™t recognize the time stamp. I wanted to give people an idea of the context because I think itā€™s worth a watch. Iā€™ll give that timestamped portion a watch later.

MrJameGumb , (edited ) in Man behind viral dress to stand trial charged with trying to kill wife
@MrJameGumb@lemmy.world avatar

I hate to keep bringing this up, but I donā€™t think it counts as a ā€œshit postā€ if youā€™re just posting an actual real thing that you found in the news

Iā€™m pretty sure thatā€™s just a regular news post

CarlsIII ,

I actually thought this was fake because it was posted here

FauxPseudo ,
@FauxPseudo@lemmy.world avatar

Same, I had to go look it up to make sure

can ,

Anything and everything goes here.

MrJameGumb ,
@MrJameGumb@lemmy.world avatar

Whatā€™s the point of it then? There are already like 50 news communities on here why do we need news posts here too?

can ,

I never said there was a point.

MrJameGumb ,
@MrJameGumb@lemmy.world avatar

So why even bother with it then? If weā€™re just posting ā€œanything and everythingā€ wherever we feel like it then I might as well be back on Reddit šŸ¤®

can ,

You know you can block communities right? No shortage of places to get shitposts around here.

MrJameGumb ,
@MrJameGumb@lemmy.world avatar

I seeā€¦ So since you clearly donā€™t understand what a ā€œshitpostā€ is, I should block the entire community and go away. Thatā€™s some real next level thinking right there šŸ¤Æ

can ,

Make your own community then? Iā€™m just quoting the sidebar.

MrJameGumb ,
@MrJameGumb@lemmy.world avatar

The sidebar also specifies ā€œmemes, jokes, vents, and banterā€ which would typically all fall under ā€œshit postingā€. It does not say ā€œregular news articles you just thought were neatā€

elxeno ,

News about a shitpost?

cordlesslamp , in Rat snacks

The old chef forged documents to take over the restaurant for himself, stealing from the protagonist, took advantage of the name Gustav to sell cheap food for profit.

Have you even watched the movie?

ObviouslyNotBanana OP ,
@ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world avatar

I have but I banked on peopleā€™s mandela effect memories to flip them towards the opinion.

IronicDeadPan ,

Itā€™s a pretty successful Disney movie from the last 20 years, there was never a chance that would work.

VaultBoyNewVegas ,

Tbf Iā€™ve maybe seen it twice since it released so my memory on it is fuzzy and I was almost swayed.

ObviouslyNotBanana OP ,
@ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world avatar

Seems to have worked on many people in this thread

lledrtx ,

Worked on me OP šŸ‘ (Iā€™m easily swayed and have no convictions)

NewAgeOldPerson ,

You should change that right away.

lledrtx ,

You got it boss. Done šŸ‘

Sludgeyy ,

He didnā€™t forge documents. He just didnā€™t want to tell the protagonist that he was the heir. I believe the letter also told him not to tell. So, in a way, he was fulfilling the dead motherā€™s wishes on that.

Gustavā€™s was failing. Selling cheap food for profit might have been the only way to keep the business afloat. Yes, he tarnishes the name, but sometimes things have to be done, and he might have had to make that hard decision.

Mean and selfish? Yes. Evil? No

thorbot ,

Did you? He didnā€™t forge the documents.

snek , in Night owls and early birds
@snek@lemmy.world avatar

No one gave them too much power. They just woke up early and took it before anyone else could.

lugal ,

They took the early worms

We need to liberate them

Join the rebellion

Bootheal0179 ,
@Bootheal0179@lemmy.world avatar

As an act of rebellion and as an early worm, I just give them the bird

mack7400 ,

Yup, and chirping their morning call.

ā€œPiTtEr PaTtEr LeTā€™s GeT aTtEr!!1ā€

2nsfw2furious ,

Thems fighting words

UrPartnerInCrime ,

The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese

Long live the second mouses!

SocialMediaRefugee , (edited )

But they are seen as more productive because they are on farmersā€™ hours

fossilesque ,
@fossilesque@mander.xyz avatar

Yes, but we are on scholars hours. šŸ§

dangblingus ,

No, theyā€™re seen as more productive because they are more productive. Being a night owl means youā€™re drunk/high and gaming.

Swedneck ,
@Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

go sit in the corner

arefx , (edited )

Often times this is true tho

Lol people who donā€™t live in reality down voting this, keep em coming it wonā€™t change anything

2nsfw2furious ,

And often times it isnā€™tā€¦

ChemicalSlippers ,

So thereā€™s no such thing as overnight shifts? Everyone who stays up late are drug and alcohol binging losers?

arefx ,

Work on reading comprehension. Often times doesnt mean all the time. You guys are dumb as shit pedants lmao

scottywh ,

Is it? ā€œOften timesā€?

Just because thatā€™s what you two have always done when you stayed up ā€œlateā€ doesnā€™t mean that it applies to everyone.

arefx ,

Where did I say it applies to everyone? Idiots.

Jeanschyso ,

Jokes on you, when I was an early bird, years ago, I would play FF14 from 4:30 to 7:00. On weekends I would be drunk or high by noon.

zalgotext ,

U jelly bro? U sound totes jelly

Polar ,

I donā€™t drink, Iā€™ve never done drugs, and I spend 5/7 nights awake.

Itā€™s called a sleeping disorder.

Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome or Non 24/Free Running.

Maybe spend less time being judgy, and more time educating yourself?

Nerdfest ,
snek ,
@snek@lemmy.world avatar

Why let me tell you, I wake up early but around lunch time I pop my first joint. I work until five then do chores and game until 10-11 PM.

ChemicalSlippers ,

This is the stupidest thing Iā€™ve heard today. Congratulations.

doingthestuff ,

My wife has to be up at 4am for her job, which means Iā€™m up that early most days too. It isnā€™t a choice that we want to. But it is a social life killer. You invite me to arrive at your house on a Tuesday at 7 for an evening of dinner and games or something, the answer is probably going to be no.

Rozz ,

I feel like there is some famous saying about that, something like ā€¦ people who wake up early get worms.

owatnext ,

Bum worms.

Treczoks , in šŸ¤¢...

I once asked my nephew about this - he worked in a hotel back then. Yes, indeed, they clean toilet brushes in a dishwasher.

But it is a separate one that is only for toilet brushes and brush holders, nothing else.

0x4E4F OP ,
@0x4E4F@sh.itjust.works avatar

I would completely agree with this and do it like this. Why? Saves time to say the least.

But, using the same one as for dishes? No way. Separate one, marked and all that? Makes perfect sense šŸ‘.

prettybunnys ,

IF your dishwasher is working properly then you ought to be able to put your poop knife, dinner dishes AND toilet brushes in and everything comes out sanitary.

Donā€™t ask why there is peanut butter left on the knife. Youā€™ll be ok.

RealFknNito ,
@RealFknNito@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah I was gonna mention that I donā€™t think the soap and steam really care if itā€™s poop germs or food germs. As long as your dishwasher is working properly, everything in there should be snapped out of existence.

Seriously just make sure the peanut butter is rinsed off beforehand.

Llewellyn ,

Incorrect. Itā€™s not the same set of germs. And there could be parasitesā€™ eggs in poop. And they are very resilient.

Kolanaki ,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

The 0.01% of germs antibacterial soap doesnā€™t kill is only found in poop.

RealFknNito ,
@RealFknNito@lemmy.world avatar

My brother in Christ itā€™s still extremely hot steam and soap. I didnā€™t mean theyā€™re the same kind of germs but theyā€™re germs. High temperature and soap kills them because if they didnā€™t I got bad news for the dude who shit himself and tried to shower. My point was they all die.

Llewellyn ,

Not nearly enough hot (and long). Thatā€™s why they have autoclaves in hospitals.

RealFknNito ,
@RealFknNito@lemmy.world avatar

Well, itā€™s a hospital. They handle a lot worse than poopy bacteria. Just because carpenters bring a nailgun that doesnā€™t mean a hammer isnā€™t nearly good enough.

Shou ,

This isnā€™t true. A generic dishwasher for at home is not up for the task. Even the stuff they use in restaurants arenā€™t up for the task. And they already wash with boiling water. Despite this, there are always leftovers. I had the task of cleaning these things at a maccy Ds. Found pink mold that thrived in coffee grounds to survive the dishwaser perfectly. Like the pink goo from the teletubbies.

SoleInvictus ,
@SoleInvictus@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah, you need a dishwasher with a proper sanitize cycle. Most residential dishwashers, even some with an alleged sanitize cycle, arenā€™t up to the task. This is why laboratories will pay top dollar for an industrial dishwasher that looks nearly identical to a residential version but it actually will sanitize its contents.

0x4E4F OP ,
@0x4E4F@sh.itjust.works avatar

And last a lot longerā€¦ probably.

Bottom line, no, Iā€™m not washing feces in my dishwasher, period.

SoleInvictus ,
@SoleInvictus@lemmy.world avatar

Oh totally. If I had a dedicated shitwasher, sure, but not in the dishwasher with my dishes and utensils. Iā€™m a microbiologist so Iā€™m pretty cavalier about my everyday microbe exposure but thatā€™s a really bad idea.

0x4E4F OP ,
@0x4E4F@sh.itjust.works avatar

Try and explain to some people here that not all germs are the same and not all germs/parasites get killed at 90 or 95Ā°C šŸ˜’.

Dedicated dishwasher (which I would never buy, since I wash those things like once a year), sure. But, hotels doing that, yeah, I can see it and there is nothing wrong with that, as long as theyā€™re done separately in a dedicated one.

Mamertine ,

Holup, you raise an interest point. A true sanitize cycle is heat. It gets hit enough to kill everything.

How the fuck is a plastic toilet cleaning brush surviving the level of heat sufficient to kill all bacteria?

If the original dishwasher from the past for got enough to kill bacteria, the brush couldnā€™t survive. Therefore, the dishwasher isnā€™t getting hot enough to kill bacteria. Therefore donā€™t put poopy plastic into your dishwasher!

SoleInvictus ,
@SoleInvictus@lemmy.world avatar

So what weā€™re looking at is sanitize vs sterilize.

A sanitize cycle typically gets the temperature of the water up to about 65-75Ā°C and holds it there for at least 1.5 hours. This kills the vast majority of pathogenic microbes as human pathogens typically live at around human body temperature. Youā€™ll see ads on how this cycle kills 99.999% of microbes, but the fine print typically states something along the lines of ā€œfoodborne microbesā€ or ā€œpathogenic microbesā€. Anything outside of that may survive, especially if itā€™s a species that forms endospores or a toilet brush.

Sterilizing by definition kills anything living and deactivates viruses. You wonā€™t get sterilization by heat in any dishwasher, which is why laboratories and medical facilities sterilize with an autoclave. An autoclave utilizes pressure to raise the water temperature up to around 120-135Ā°C without it boiling. This still wonā€™t sterilize everything, particularly the aforementioned endospore forming bacteria, but itā€™s functionally sterilized for most purposes. For true sterilization, certain autoclaves can reach much higher temperatures and pressures, in excess of 600Ā°C and 0.5 GPa, respectively, which obliterates fairly well everything, but those are extremely uncommon and for niche uses as temperatures that high may just melt your glassware.

EldritchFeminity ,

This is the same sort of reason why you canā€™t 3d print items that will come in contact with food. 3d printing leaves microscopic holes in the surface of the object, and once food gets in there, itā€™s never coming out and will become a breeding ground for all kinds of nasty stuff.

Delphia ,

I had an old dishwasher I used as an improvised parts washer when fixing up cars.

I used a ratchet strap to keep the door closed because the latch was busted, but it still heated the water and sprayed it just fine.

rekabis ,

How did steel and aluminum parts react after coming into contact with hot water and soap? I can imagine a non-trivial amount of milling/resurfacing of any interface that is meant to take a gasket due to how metals react to caustic environments.

Unless you disabled the dishwasherā€™s internal heating element and used degreasers instead of waterā€¦ that makes a lot more sense.

user134450 ,

most dishwasher detergent formulations contain corrosion inhibitors for steel, some even contain corrosion inhibitors for aluminium though those are usually in the upper price segment.

Lifebandit666 ,

I work in a production line that makes parts for diesel engines. We wash the parts in water and alkaline solution, then they hit a drier and get dried. Basically a giant dishwasher. The company is multi million dollar and world wide.

Just a long winded way of saying your imagination is wrong

Delphia ,

I just used dishwasher tablets and It was fine as long as you took the parts out straight away while they were still ā€œyou need glovesā€ hot and hit them with WD40 or sat them in the sun. Never had an issue so long as I did that.

Treczoks ,

Steel is no issue, but keep aluminum out of the dishwasher. It is basically ruined after the first trip.

A_Random_Idiot ,

yep, got in a rush one day and put my rice cookers aluminum bits in the dishwasher.

Not ruined, but definitely permanently discolored and ugly looking, and harder to clean now thanks to it.

BeMoreCareful ,

What does it do to them? Iā€™ve never tried it.

A_Random_Idiot ,

The bare aluminum became discolored, rough and ugly. Food sticks to it more, requiring more scrubbing to clean them. I dont know what that reaction is from a materials science perspective, though, if thats what youā€™re asking.

BeMoreCareful ,

Oh, I had no perspective, I had no idea šŸ˜. Thanks.

Delphia ,

You guys arent talking about aluminium thats been under the hood of a Honda Civic for 25 years, heat cycled literally thousands of times and covered in all manner of filth.

I was not restoring Ferarris.

RalphFurley ,

I worked at a restaurant in the kitchen. We had a place on the wall to hang brushes. The GREEN brushes were to be used for food/prep areas only. The white brushes were for cleaning toilets, and other filthy places.

The white brushes were soaked in buckets and rinsed/washed thoroughly in a slop sink, then later, put in the racks that push through the dishwasher conveyor belt that ran through the machine if I recall correctly. Itā€™s been more than 20 years

model_tar_gz ,

Did you have a black hook for the poop knives, also?

RalphFurley ,

We used our hands

MystikIncarnate ,

See, this makes sense to me. Itā€™s the same way with anything IMO. If it involves bodily fluids, beyond native saliva and tears, you probably want to wash it specifically. At least in its own load, possibly in a different machine entirely, maybe even get it professionally handled, or clean it with fire. Depending on the severity of the soilingā€¦

I have no issue with someone using a thing that was designed for another purpose to do something that itā€™s designers didnā€™t think of. As long as youā€™re not cross contaminating your food with it, I couldnā€™t really care lessā€¦ But bluntly, using your dishwasher, the same one you use for dishes, to clean your poop scrubber? Big nope from me.

kameecoding , in The Peasant Life

yes, 150 days, for the lord, how many days on your own property so you didnā€™t starve to death?

they fucking worked all days except Sunday morning to evening, stop romanticizing feudalism ya cunts.

and the church was part of the exploitation od the masses, promising afterlife dor the peasants but not for the rich ā€œinsert the bible quote hereā€

fuck feudalism and fuck the church

Valmond ,

Yeah where the hell do those figures come from. They worked around the clock.

Yeah nah they didnā€™t sleep on Sundays, there were stuff to be done on those days too.

ChaoticNeutralCzech ,

I think the number is a realistic estimate for serfdom, as farming is largely seasonal. However, harvests could mean 2 weeks with 16 hours of work per day for everyone including children.

paultimate14 ,

Where do your figures come from?

HiddenLayer5 ,

Arguments like these are also uncomfortably similar to the arguments slave owners would use to justify slavery. ā€œLook, I take good care of them, feed them, give them clothes, and even built them their own shack next to my plantation house! That means Iā€™m totally not exploiting the people I believe are my property!ā€

dasgoat ,

ā€˜I allow them to just exist between whipping and beating them, isnā€™t that enough?!ā€™

banneryear1868 ,

Yeah ā€œonly worked 150 daysā€ glosses over how much work daily life was. If you were lucky you lived with pigs and cows and their shit in your thatch hut and it didnā€™t cave in during the winter leaving you for dead, maybe you survived through your thirties without dying of lung disease, because youā€™d constantly have fires going in the hut. Youā€™d have to wash clothes in the river even during the winters and hang them up to dry in the smoke of your hut.

On the plus size in good times, and ironically, you could have a healthier diet than the lord. It wasnā€™t like being a lord was a worry-free place to be either, despite all the luxuries they could afford. Christmas was basically 2 months in the winter and festival season could be full of pleasure if you were well situated. ā€œPeasantā€ encompasses a wide variety of economic arrangements and many of them could live comfortably, relatively speaking. There was no one single ā€œfeudalismā€ and itā€™s debatable whether the term is useful to sum up the period.

PersnickityPenguin ,

Lol, thatā€™s total bullshit. Medieval peasants didnā€™t work more than people today. And pre-medieval societies worked even less.

ā€œOne of capitalismā€™s most durable myths is that it has reduced human toil. This myth is typically defended by a comparison of the modern forty-hour week with its seventy- or eighty-hour counterpart in the nineteenth century. The implicit ā€“ but rarely articulated ā€“ assumption is that the eighty-hour standard has prevailed for centuries. The comparison conjures up the dreary life of medieval peasants, toiling steadily from dawn to dusk. We are asked to imagine the journeyman artisan in a cold, damp garret, rising even before the sun, laboring by candlelight late into the night.ā€

ā€œThese images are backward projections of modern work patterns. And they are false. Before capitalism, most people did not work very long hours at all. The tempo of life was slow, even leisurely; the pace of work relaxed. Our ancestors may not have been rich, but they had an abundance of leisure. When capitalism raised their incomes, it also took away their time. Indeed, there is good reason to believe that working hours in the mid-nineteenth century constitute the most prodigious work effort in the entire history of humankind.ā€

Hereā€™s the good stuff:

Eight centuries of annual hours 13th century - Adult male peasant, U.K.: 1620 hours Calculated from Gregory Clarkā€™s estimate of 150 days per family, assumes 12 hours per day, 135 days per year for adult male (ā€œImpatience, Poverty, and Open Field Agricultureā€, mimeo, 1986)

14th century - Casual laborer, U.K.: 1440 hours

Calculated from Nora Ritchieā€™s estimate of 120 days per year. Assumes 12-hour day. (ā€œLabour conditions in Essex in the reign of Richard IIā€, in E.M. Carus-Wilson, ed., Essays in Economic History, vol. II, London: Edward Arnold, 1962).

Middle ages - English worker: 2309 hours

Juliet Schorā€™s estime of average medieval laborer working two-thirds of the year at 9.5 hours per day

1400-1600 - Farmer-miner, adult male, U.K.: 1980 hours

Calculated from Ian Blanchardā€™s estimate of 180 days per year. Assumes 11-hour day (ā€œLabour productivity and work psychology in the English mining industry, 1400-1600ā€, Economic History Review 31, 23 (1978).

1840 - Average worker, U.K.: 3105-3588 hours

Based on 69-hour week; hours from W.S. Woytinsky, ā€œHours of labor,ā€ in Encyclopedia of the Social Sciences, vol. III (New York: Macmillan, 1935). Low estimate assumes 45 week year, high one assumes 52 week year

1850 - Average worker, U.S.: 3150-3650 hours

Based on 70-hour week; hours from Joseph Zeisel, ā€œThe workweek in American industry, 1850-1956ā€, Monthly Labor Review 81, 23-29 (1958). Low estimate assumes 45 week year, high one assumes 52 week year

1987 - Average worker, U.S.: 1949 hours

From The Overworked American: The Unexpected Decline of Leisure, by Juliet B. Schor, Table 2.4

1988 - Manufacturing workers, U.K.: 1856 hours

Calculated from Bureau of Labor Statistics data, Office of Productivity and Technology

groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/ā€¦/hours_workweek.html

PersnickityPenguin ,

I should add that I grew up on a farm in the United States during the 1980s and 1990s. We ā€œworkedā€ on the farm of two 10 or 12 hours a day, but the majority of that time was spent not slaving away doing actual work, but moving things around. Driving tractors, animal husbandry, cleaning out barns, transporting feed or harvested crops, or the main labor intensive activities.

Additionally, we spent time doing planning and accounting, as well as ordering products and services that the form required. However, compared to working on a factory floor or in an office job the work was far lower in intensity and did not have the type of oversight that modern office labor incurs.

The other thing is that during the winter, from roughly October through February basically no work happens. Nothing grows, so the only thing you need to do is to feed your animals and keep them clean. Thatā€™s it. Itā€™s like a 4-month vacation, although it still requires some upkeep the workload is a fraction of what you do during the rest of the year. Maybe 1 to 2 hours a day.

TWeaK ,

Thereā€™s also the fact that, before the advent of gas and then electric lighting, you really couldnā€™t see shit after dark. Tallow candles allow you to see where youā€™re going, but they donā€™t give off enough light to allow you to do much real work. Thus, throughout the winter there were simply fewer hours in which to do most things.

This is also likely why ā€œdinnerā€ was traditionally at lunchtime, and was also the main meal of the day. This was the time of day when you would most reliably have enough light to prepare a large meal. Then, when artificial lighting became a thing, upper class types started having ā€œdinner partiesā€ late in the evening, and for many dinner became the evening meal. It did not spread everywhere, though, in particular the north of the UK generally still thinks of dinner as lunchtime.

Torvum ,

Calls bullshit, facilitates worse bullshit. Classic. I guess I imagined all the hard WORK it took to maintain a home. Remember, if youā€™re not being paid for it, it doesnā€™t count as labor. Fucking hell

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