Ok, that’s fine. We’d need more details about what actually transpired and what the support team told the cops.
But it sure seems like in a situation where the support team calls them, it should be with the understanding that they’re there for backup, not to barge in and fire.
But looking at the report, that’s what happened.
Also:
On May 2, 2024, at 10:58 a.m., Olympic Division uniformed officers responded to a radio call at an apartment in the 400 block of South Gramercy Place to assist the Los Angeles County Department of Mental Health (DMH) who were attempting to place an individual, later identified as 40-year-old Yong Yang into custody.
Why was the Department of Mental Health “attempting to place him into custody”? They were trying to detain him and take him from the premises, under the law…which sounds an awful lot like an arrest with a different set of paperwork.
So basically these were just cops without guns…who went ahead and called the cops with the guns anyway.
I said it another comment but where was the emergency here? Why did they need to get him into custody immediately? He could not hurt anyone but themselves locked in an apartment alone. He was showing aggression when people tried to enter, but could not hurt them if they stayed out.
Why did they enter and give him someone to hurt? Seeing as how all that was going to do was give them justification to hurt him.
The police also tried to calm him down by whining about how “hard” their job is and tried to bitch about him “making a scene”. They really have zero empathy and probably aren’t even capable of understanding how the entire outcome was their fault. The definition of “why did you make me abuse you?”.
3: They said they’ll be doing it NOW or at a definitive time.
If these 3 things aren’t answered with any definitive answers, they’ll leave you alone.
You can say who you’ll kill, you can say how, but if you don’t say you plan to do it NOW or on May 23rd, you’re going to stay at home unless you have insurance and plan to go somewhere voluntarily.
=
Use this life hack to never have to deal with police and kill yourself if you want to as long as you’ve exhausted all real options. Pro-Choice all the way. Ain’t nobody but you gets a say on whether you want to live or not.
Set time? Set how? No person? No 51.15.
Don’t know when? Set how. Set kys. No 51.15
Say it’s tomorrow? Don’t know how. Say you’ll kys. Maybe 51.15, just don’t convince them differently.
E: Forgot the obvious. Don’t threaten anyone while you have a weapon in your possession. No, the police can no longer leave you alone. They are not allowed to just let you kill yourself without being sued into oblivion. Yes, if you threaten them with a weapon at close distance, they will kill you. No, it doesn’t matter if you’re mentally unwell, don’t threaten people with lethal weapons. Being unwell doesn’t give you carte blanche to PHYSICALLY threaten and/or hurt people.
Nah, the Trump base doesn’t give two shits about Israel/Palestine. And they’ll never know Biden ever tried. I’m pretty sure they’re still talking about the laptop
They want Donald in office because it is better for China. They don’t give a shit about Uyghur genocide or the fact that “socialist” China is producing billionaires.
They’ve moved on to his executive privilege move to withhold recordings, because there obviously must be something horribly incriminating involving vocal inflection that doesn’t translate to transcripts.
That’s how right wing news reports it. I didn’t mean to imply wrongdoing myself. I edited to remove the quotes. I’m in complete agreement of his decision. There’s absolutely no need for the recordings other than to truncate them and use them out of context.
They don’t like it when you point out that Trump moved the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem, tacitly declaring it to belong wholly to Israel. He’s made it very clear what he thinks about Palestine.
And you know 100% that if Biden was against Israel and supported Gaza, they’d bitch and complain and say Biden supports terrorists. Bad faith arguments across the board coming from those worthless shitstains.
“Look, I know Biden actively supports genocide. But if you point that out, then really it is you who is the bigger supporter of genocide. By not supporting Genocide Joe, you are actually a Trump voter.”
Give me a break. Maybe you’re the problem if your satisfied supporting a party who’s political leanings are so flexible that the only metric they cling to is remaining slightly to the left of the GOP, no matter how far to the right that keeps pushing them.
The Democrats are already a center right party. At this rate, when the GOP goes full National Socialist Workers Party, the Democrats will adopt the Tea Party’s politics.
But hey, at least they’ll still be to the left of the GOP, right?
But hey, at least they’ll still be to the left of the GOP, right?
Correct. They will be to the left of the outright fascists. And it’s that or the fascists. By voting for anyone else, you choose the fascists. Sorry, that’s reality.
No, the reality is that people like you are helping to craft that very future by refusing to stop supporting the Democrats for even a moment.
Even if stopping for that moment is what is needed to turn the party back into a workers party, and not one that is entirely beholden to it’s donor class, because they know the rubes will vote for them no matter what they do.
If you are not inclined to want fascist leaders, and assuming you are a person and not a troll, how do you imagine ceasing to support the less fascist party during an election year will result in less fascism?
We are only driving in one direction. The GOP keeps their pedal to the floor, while the Democrats have been happy just to ease up the gas a little - but not slam on the brakes.
You’re saying that it’s better to support the Democrats and delay the inevitable arrival at destination Facism.
I’m saying if ever want to hope to flip a bitch, or even just find an off-ramp, the Democratic party has to be retrained on who they respond to. The only way to do that is to make them more responsive to their voters, then to their donors.
When facing down the barrel of the unlimited donations and super PACS of their donor class, the only weapon we have is solidarity in not supporting them, until they learn.
Taking a little medicine now, but with the chance to actually turn this car around, is worth the risk when the other option is just delayed full tilt facism, with occasional letting off the gas for the new Tea Party Democrats, if they aren’t already outlawed by that point.
It’s happened multiple times in the past couple decades. Look at how the tea party took over the Republican party. There have also been the blue dog democrats and the Bernie social Dems. They haven’t taken over the way the tea party has, but they’ve both tugged at the direction of the party.
…and if they instead decide that the left cannot be depended on and start courting voters more to the right?
I honestly felt how you feel. I just don’t think it’s historically worked that way.
Push local reps to the left and Primary the centrists. I’m all for it… but going home because your guy isn’t on the ballot is playing a dangerous game right now.
If the country can handle a Republican win, then go back to staying home in protest. But I think, especially at this point in time, that a Trump win would spell the end of American democracy.
You realize that courting the right, and destroying the left, has been the current Democratic party establishments playbook for quite a while already…right?
That was actually part of the Hillary Clinton’s campaign strategy. But don’t take my word for it, go read up on their well documented belief that they could give up on rural and bluecollar democrats, and replace them with “moderate GOP voters” from the suburbs.
Hint: it didn’t work.
So… you’re counterpoint is that if I don’t support them, they’ll just keep doing what they’re already doing?
I disagree. They’re behave like that because they can. Because despite their base despising their donor first agenda, the base still turns out for them, more or less.
The only way to correct that, is to retrain them on who’s needs they need to be responsive to. Absent becoming a billionaire who supports the 99%, the only way is to not support them, and be vocal about why.
So… you’re counterpoint is that if I don’t support them, they’ll just keep doing what they’re already doing?
Yes, that’s my point exactly.
The only way to correct that, is to retrain them on who’s needs they need to be responsive to. Absent becoming a billionaire who supports the 99%, the only way is to not support them, and be vocal about why.
Here is the painful truth that I realized back when I thought the way you do: They don’t give a flying fuck about us. We’re not numerous enough to sit out, be vocal, and hope they feel our absence. They didn’t in 2016. They didn’t in 2020. They won’t in 2024. We’re too fringe and too few. They just see us as fickle and hard to please extremists. We’d need to bring way more mainstream people with us to be heard. Hell, Gaza is actually getting some mainstream attention and Biden is still blocking UN action and sending Israel billions in weapons.
The average democrat voter is more than willing to guzzle the party’s liberal bullshit. Catering to “independents” and the disillusioned right pulls in more than enough votes to outweigh the left vocally sitting out. Have you watched any mainstream media?
We need to change the party from within. Be present and involved. Vote in primaries for leftists and support them. Run in the primaries if there aren’t leftists. The thing is that most voters want leftist policies once they understand how they’ll benefit from them.
In the meantime, there legitimately may not be an election in 2028 if this fucking psychopath wanna be mob boss gets another shot at a coup. It won’t fucking matter after that - making political change will take civil war.
You mean vote in the Presidential primary that the DNC cancelled this year?
Or did you mean, ignore that they cancelled it, and just vote for Biden like a good little lemming?
Don’t be so hysterical. Trump is bad, and I’m under no illusion what another term of his would be like, but he’s far too stupid and petty to “end democracy”, the Democrats are doing fine at doing that themselves.
I’m not some young radical. I’ve been through many cycles, and I’ve worked on more campaigns then most of people have voted in.
And yes, I’ve worked inside the DNC apparatus and been around contemporary Democratic machine politics nearly my entire life. I have a pretty good idea of what these people are like, because I’ve known a whole lot of them.
Well, considering that he lost then, and then lost again the same way 4 years later, he’s not really the benchmark of effective political strategy that you’re acting like he is.
Being a Bernie voter isn’t an insult and that was certainly not my intent, I voted for him too in the primaries. But being a Bernie voter/progressive and then completely ignoring his advice to vote for the actual Dem candidate (Hillary/Biden) becuase you have a super secret strategy that involves effectively not voting, is what I would describe as a gibberish strategy. Pretty sure he understands the stakes and strategies much better than you. The game I’m referring to is our highly imperfect first past the post system, and you’re not playing it.
The part I don’t understand is why you some folks feel their vote is so sacred that they can’t compromise for someone like Biden given the stakes. It’s just a vote, I give them out like candy to whoever is better. It’s super simple, it’s not a marriage vow and it doesn’t define you as a human. Real, actual harm will come to our allies with Trump and your thinking implies they’re an acceptable sacrifice. Women are literally dying because Trump appointed 3 dog shit SCOTUS justices. Bernie doesn’t agree with your strategy, AOC doesn’t, but you seem to think you know something special that progressive leadership doesn’t.
What super secret strategy? I’ve laid out my very simple belief on the matter, repeatedly, and on a public forum.
If my vote isn’t a big deal, than why are you devoting so much time trying to convince me otherwise?
I never said don’t vote. I’ve said I won’t support the establishment DNC, or Biden, but that I will continue to support progressive/left candidates who would be beholden to voters, and not special interests/machine politics.
Compromise to what end? That is what you’re not understanding. When in the last 30 years has that not lead to us being worse off?
I get it, you’re happy to manage our decline into a full blown neoliberal gilded age 2.0 hellscape, on the off chance that it helps to staves off full blown fascism. I’m not judging you for making that choice, but I do disagree with it.
I don’t see how the unending shifting of the Democratic party to the right, just to remain slightly to the left the GOP, doesn’t end up with the exact situation you’re trying to fend off.
So, as I said, I’m going to use the only voice I have, my vote, to support the only viable path that might prevent the outcome that you claim you’re trying to avoid, but really, are just easing into a bit more gently.
I’m not trying to convince you, I’m offering a counterpoint to the other 3 people that might read this and otherwise think your strategy goes without question. I just don’t understand how you can support a bunch of progressives that largely, if not exclusively, vote for Biden/Hillary as needed, seemingly agreeing with them in everything except this critical point where they make obviously correct choices to vote for least harm. Why wouldn’t you just listen to their reasoning? What makes you think you’re right on this?
The reason things get shittier is because shitty people like Bush and Trump get elected. The way to defeat them is to actually defeat them, not let them win and hope for a progressive uprising. I don’t see how moving backwards helps you move forwards, that’s all.
You mean vote in the Presidential primary that the DNC cancelled this year?
You are not arguing in good faith. I obviously mean every fucking Democratic primary in the country… Jesus fuck.
Or did you mean, ignore that they cancelled it, and just vote for Biden like a good little lemming?
I mean make sure it doesn’t fucking happen in the future. NOT voting is what the Democratic party expects the left to do. NOT voting is exactly what the right wants you to do. Hell, I’m half convinced that’s your goal to begin with. We live in fucked up times with misinformation and manipulation via social media is a powerful tool.
Don’t be so hysterical. Trump is bad, and I’m under no illusion what another term of his would be like, but he’s far too stupid and petty to “end democracy”, the Democrats are doing fine at doing that themselves.
…
he’s far too stupid and petty to “end democracy”
I’m sorry, do only smart and reasonable people have the ability to end democracy? The only reason he didn’t fucking steal the White House already is because he was to stupid and petty to do it right the first time and the old right wing powers thought he was making them look bad.
This time, they realized he’s barely suffered any consequences and they are going all in. He’s their shot. They’ll suck his dick and hand him a crown as long as it gets them in the door and keeps them in power. He’ll do what they want - appoint the judges, issue the executive orders, whatever - so long as he gets that crown and his pile of cash.
Even if Trump manages to peacefully transfer power after an election in 2028, the United States will no longer be a democracy. I’m honestly scared to death of what a less stupid, less petty right wing president could do with the structure the right has been using Trump to put in place. Too much damage will already have been done.
Put out the fire now, do whatever it takes to make sure the lesser of two evils wins, and fix the Democratic party from within. Hell, fix the voting system and go third party, I don’t care. Its not like I’m not sick of this shit too. I can’t fucking wait for a time when the D’s don’t have the trumppocalypse to scare voters into giving them a pass for their bullshit.
I’m not some young radical. I’ve been through many cycles, and I’ve worked on more campaigns then most of people have voted in.
And yes, I’ve worked inside the DNC apparatus and been around contemporary Democratic machine politics nearly my entire life. I have a pretty good idea of what these people are like, because I’ve known a whole lot of them.
Yes, they effectively rigged the Presidential primary this cycle for Biden. It wasn’t really a secret, was widely covered, and if you aren’t aware of that, I don’t think you’re informed enough to even have this conversation.
I genuinely don’t care if you believe me. It wasn’t an appeal to authority to get you to change your mind. It was in response to your patronizing “I used to be like you” schtick.
I never said don’t vote, not once. I haven’t even appealed to others to follow my lead in not supporting Biden.
I have laid out some of my reasons for not supporting Biden, and that is what you find so offensive.
“The lesser of two evils” game will never end. That is the fire, that is how we got Trump in the first place. Continuing to breath life into the existing DNC isn’t going to put it out, it’s just going to fan the flames.
I never said don’t vote, NOT ONCE. I haven’t even appealed to others to follow my lead in not supporting Biden.
So how does one vote in the presidential election and not, in some way, support Biden?
My whole fucking point is that not voting for Biden brings us one step closer to a country I doubt either of us would prefer to live in. I am vocal in my opposition to the choice we’re being given and in my criticism of a great many actions and inactions of the current administration but I’m still going to vote for Biden over Trump and over any third party candidate.
What, exactly, is your point? If not withholding your vote and yelling about it then how does one “not support” Biden?
I don’t know about your locality, but I’ve never lived in a state where a Presidential general election ballot doesn’t have a whole lot of other races and ballot initiatives on it…
I don’t see how my not supporting Biden, or the establishment DNC candidates, somehow prevents me from voting for school bonds, local progressive grassroots candidates, or any other measures and races on the ballot this year.
So…good for you, vote your conscience, and I’ll vote mine.
I see. So you are advocating to not vote for Biden. Your not explicitly telling people not to vote for Biden, your just telling them that doing so is actively making the country worse. Got it.
As opposed to you, and the others like you, who are demanding that anyone who voices dissent and discontent must still vote for Biden, and to do otherwise means we’re actually a combination of Trump supporting tankies who run socket puppet accounts for Russia, who really want the country to continue sliding towards fascim.
to do otherwise means we’re actually a combination of Trump supporting tankies who run socket puppet accounts for Russia, and actually want the country to continue sliding towards fascim.
Lol
So yeah, I understand your position just fine.
LOL. Fucking LOL.
One last reply and I’m done.
Yes, I doubt that you are some disgruntled DNC veteran. Yes, in this day and age I can’t be certain that you aren’t just part of some foreign or domestic social media effort to destroy morale and advocate for not voting. However, I only mentioned it offhand and have continued to treat you like an individual. You have not done the same.
I see you as misguided and angry. I see you as unaware of the consequences and ineffectiveness of the actions you advocate for. You never said anything to deny what a second Trump presidency would look like, besides the extremely simple assertion that he’s too stupid and petty. You act like it will be fine.
You ignore the damage he’s already done. Women all over the country are suffering, voting is being suppressed, minorities and LGBTQ+ folks are being denied their rights, environmental laws are getting gutted, and good federal agencies are being stripped of their power… because of the justices and judges that Trump appointed. You ignore all this and state you’re going to refuse to vote for establishment candidates in the general election. Why? Because, like a child, you are angry that your preferred candidate didn’t win the primary. So, to “send a message”, you’re willing to risk pushing our country another four years closer to a fascist theocracy…
Yeah, I’m going to hold my nose and vote with my conscience.
You’re technically correct, but only because the DNC drinks from the same neoliberal Kool Aid. The apparatus is now mostly run from their bloated privatized consultant class (campaign consultants, media firms, polling outfits, etc.).
Of which, I’m sorry to say, I have spent time both employed by personally, as well as many years in close proximity to, outside of my own direct professional engagement.
I love how, on Lemmy, you think that it’s more likely that I’m actually a deep cover foreign asset, then a citizen who’s happened to have worked in the disgustingly large multi-billion dollar campaign industry.
But please, tell me more about how your intimate knowledge of our body politic is more nuanced and insightful then mine.
You call me angry and disgruntled, but your political philosophy is “I’ll compromise on literally anything, as long as I’m told it’s for the greater good”.
Trump would be awful, but he’s not the end of the line of awful candidates and I’d rather take my chances with a DNC that is responsive to it’s base, and not it’s donors. That can’t happen unless they fear their base will pull support, which is why they’ve trained them to always compromise.
Isn’t it funny though, that the compromise only works in one direction: to the right and for the benefit of the donor class.
My responses were directed at people commenting, unprompted, about how anyone who doesn’t support Biden, or buy into his campaign messaging, are either closeted Trump supporters, tankies, or (my personal favorite) foreign socket puppet accounts i.e. Russian bots.
Because obviously they can’t be lifelong Democrats who are fed up with current Democratic establishment and see the threat they pose if left unchanged - precisely because we NEED an actual strong leftwing workers party to stand against the GOP.
So, again, you do whatever your conscience tells you.
If your comfortable with a Democratic party that is already fully run by neoliberals, crushes leftists, and only moves further to the right each election, then keep supporting them. That’s on you.
Myself, I am going to see which option the Democrats are MOST concerned with i.e. uncommitted vs blank vs a specific 3rd party candidate.
I will also continue to support most of my local and statewide progressive candidates, because I do care, and I’m not whatever fantasy the Biden supporters have concocted so they can dismiss people like me without giving these idea any real thought.
We don’t yet know if he actually did anything here or not, we will find out when the legal challenges are done. On one hand, it may survive, in which case something was actually accomplished, on the other hand, Biden may have wasted a whole bunch of people’s time and clogged up the courts even more than they already are.
WTF kind of logic is this? Are you saying he shouldn’t even try and just sit with his thumbs up his ass rather than try to accomplish good things because a court may block it? Should we all just throw our hands up and give up doing anything at all?
That’s a terrible argument. And love how you blame the obstructionism on the one being obstructed from accomplishing their goals.
So, no, we have already seen the action. He did something. Will the sociopathic fascist a-holes in government overturn the action ALREADY TAKEN is what remains to be seen.
First off, I totally agree the argument you responded to is bad and that Biden is driving toward the right goal.
However, if we disambiguate the specific circumstance here, there is sometimes an argument to be made that the one being obstructed is the problem. Think about how many obviously illegal laws Republicans have pushed through. A recent example would be DeSantis’ “Stop WOKE” act trying to eliminate DEI training in companies. It so clearly goes against federal law about protected classes and was deemed unconstitutional because of the first amendment. I don’t think there’s any chance DeSantis actually believed this act was legal or would be allowed, he just wanted the brownie points of “hurr durr, own the libs.”
There are so many cases of that kind of thing, and I think it’s absolutely fair to be critical of those whose laws are being obstructed when they initiate them in bad faith.
However, like I said, that doesn’t apply in this situation; this law was not made in bad faith, and the Texas court is definitely the problem here. I only bring it up because “blaming the obstructionism on the one being obstructed” can sometimes be a legit argument.
I’m more willing to give Biden credit when he’s blocked by trump appointed judges than I am when he’s blocked in the senate by members of the party he nominally heads.
The Legislative Branch does not report to the Executive Branch, it checks it. If the Senate reported to the President, they wouldn’t be doing their job. Trump’s presidency was a good example of corruption of governmental checks and balances.
I’m not happy with centrism. The term is progressive for a reason. If you abandon all progress short of the goal, you’re not progressing. That just leads to party division, disenfranchisement, and Republican regression. Liberal policies of today were the progressive legislation of the past.
I’m not happy with centrism. The term is progressive for a reason. If you abandon all progress short of the goal, you’re not progressing. That just leads to party division, disenfranchisement, and Republican regression.
Stop trying to redefine “progressive” to mean “slow walking progress.”
The government is slow, not the ideals. What you fail to understand is that liberal policies that you take for granted today were the progressive policies of the past. You’ll never reach the goal if you discredit and discard everything that comes up short.
Your willful ignorance to recognize that half the nation is in opposition of liberal and progressive ideals is what leads you to point the finger at those who understand that compromise is necessary when Democrats don’t have full control of the government.
If Democrats could successfully maintain presidential and congressional majority for an extended period, politicians would be forced to become more progressive to capture more of the vote. That requires unity, not division.
What you don’t understand is that liberal policies that you take for granted today were the progressive policies of the past.
I understand that progressives fought for them in the past and centrists didn’t, often fighting against them, just like today. Contentment does not produce progress. Which is why people who don’t want progress call discontent divisive.
What the successful progressives of the past understood, that you clearly don’t, is that the opposition to progressives and liberals is Republicans. They succeeded in passing progressive legislation through unity.
Find me a piece of successful legislation passed exclusively by progressive members of Congress. I’ll wait.
There are countless examples of it throughout our history. Why do you believe your opinion is more credible than repeatedly proven historical evidence?
There are plenty of examples of centrists fighting progress as well. Your demands that progressives shut up and be happy with deliberate failure and betrayal don’t change that.
I’m voting for Biden this time around, too. I voted for Clinton in '16. And I’m going to gripe about it the whole fucking time.
That doesn’t mean that centrists oppose Republicans harder than they oppose progressives, and it doesn’t mean they don’t work with Republicans to shut down progressive policy.
I want stories like this bombarded at the morons on here saying Biden does nothing
Biden putting up rules and then failing to enforce them because of a predictable Texas appeallate court issuing a predictable injunction amounts to nothing.
Biden had the opportunity to pack the courts back in 2021 and… didn’t. He still has the opportunity, right now, while he has a Senate majority.
This isn’t just a Biden problem. I could name a dozen of Senate Dems who paved the way for a stacked court, going back to the McCain-friendly Democrats caving to Frist’s Nuclear Option back in 2005 (senior senator from Delaware whatsisface notwithstanding).
But this is a kind of learned liberal helplessness, when a guy like Biden can throw you an empty headline and get “See! He tried to do something! We just need to give him 2009 supermajorities before they’ll work!” Meanwhile, if any Republican wins any branch of any level of government, that’s all they need to eviscerate democracy forever.
They just don’t recognize that they’ll be crushed first when it rolls back. Maturity is learning not to commit all of your attention to the top of the mountain, but to always be mindful of the boulder.
Even without “both sides”, the situation worldwide is fucked. And “neither side” is going to change much. Yes, one is worse, but the better side still offers a bandaid over a gushing wound.
We just need to help them understand the system better. I voted third-party when was young, and many of my friends abstained. That was due to a lack of education about our government. It’s not about swaying them to vote one way or the other, but just to help them understand how our system functions. After that, if they want to vote for Trump with conviction, so be it. At least it’ll be an informed decision.
Anyone who believes there are more than two choices in this election was poorly educated on American democracy. I know I was when I voted Green Party at 20 years old. If I can help educate those that are as ill-informed as I was, I feel it’s my duty. After that, the choice is theirs.
The whole point I’m trying to make is that the system doesn’t work, voting lesser of two evils never helped in any meaningful way.
We need to stop capitalism, or we will all die, or at the very least suffer greatly.
That’s the whole point.
I’m not from the US, so I can’t vote for either side anyway, but we are all fucked. I watch the children and feel sorry for letting them down. They will not grow up into a world of peace and prosperity, only desolation and dystopia.
So while yes, Orange man very bad, the system will kill us anyway. Fascism will take your country, but capitalism took our entire planet.
Yep. Just vote and don’t expect to get to the top. We’re never getting there. We just vote and vote and vote and then eventually we die, pushing the same boulder the entire time.
It’s far from ideal, but the problem is that we let it roll back every 4-8 years. If Democrats consistently won due to progressive policies, the candidates would inevitably become more progressive to capture more of the constituency. Disengagement and disenfranchisement consistently cause the boulder to fall, leading to the lack of overall progress.
Don’t underestimate the efficacy of voter disenfranchisement and disengagement. Republicans don’t need to prop up Trump. People who loath him will vote for him simply due to party loyalty. Discrediting Biden is all it takes for a win.
You’re right. It’s important to keep negative feelings to yourself. Cram them right down in the pit of your stomach and then smile and say “Yeah, this is exactly the sort of government I want and if you have a problem with it then you’re a bad person.”
You don’t need to play martyr. Get some help if you really want to address it. Trying to convince others to feel hopeless along with you won’t make you feel any better, and it can hurt others in the process.
Voting should be emotionless. It’s a civic responsibility to make a logical decision to benefit yourself and those you care about. Vote for whomever will do that more. Don’t expect perfect representation at that level of government.
Which is exactly what I’ve been saying this entire time: Vote, but don’t expect it to help.
The strategy of telling voters that they can vote for change is what’s caused Millennials and Gen Z to check out. Don’t tell people our government is responsive or effective, because it isn’t and then they’ll get the wrong idea about how government actually works. Don’t tell them they can vote for Hope & Change, because those aren’t things our government provides.
It’s like you’re stuck in the water with a riptide pushing you away from shore. A really strong swimmer would just swim against it, but you’re not, so you swim parallel to shore because then later you can swim back in. At least it’s not pushing you further out.
Nope.
Just decide to quit and drown. This is what the young “I’ll show you by not participating” crowd sounds like to me.
Well, yes. That’s the thing: If you give up, you drown, if you keep going parallel, you never know when the tide might turn. If you’re 24 (that’s how I interpret your previous comment), you’ve only had the option of voting in one presidential election so far. In that election, progressives completed the monumental task of voting out an incumbent proto-facist. And for all of Bidens flaws, there can’t be much doubt that a lot has been heading in the right direction. Of course, there’s still a huge task ahead, but the previous election shows that Trump can be kept out of office, and the past three years show that things can get better.
Step 1: Forgiving student loans, Step 2: Working to reform the system.
Step 1: Pardon certain drug-related crimes, Step 2: Work to reform drug laws.
Step 1: Massive infrastructure investments, Step 2: More investment in public goods
Step 1: EO’s to protect reproductive rights, Step 2: Legislation to do the same.
My point is this: Biden has shown that he is working to make progress, and that he can actually get stuff done. The problem is that there’s a whole lot that needs doing, much more than anyone can do in two terms. We need to keep getting the best option into office, and we need to spend the next four years to ensure that the best option next time is better than Biden is now. If Trump gets four years, I fear that we’ll have a near impossible job.
I’m actually 42. This is my sixth presidential election. I’m old enough to know this post is writing a check our government can’t cash. It’s too broken.
Calm your tits. I’ve been voting D like a good little neoliberal since 2000.
I don’t need to give them more power. They’ve already elected two presidents without the popular vote, hold most of the Senate because it gives land more power than people, and the House because we haven’t fixed representation in a century. Not to mention the fuckery in every single one of the states they can pull off.
The fact that Republicans are able to do that sort of shit is how it’s broken. They’re not the problem, they’re a symptom of people winning game with broken mechanics. Like the end of Monopoly when one asshole has all the money.
Because they’re not rolling it up fast enough! Can’t you see? They just have to roll it faster and preferably all the way and then I’ll get excited and help. Yup. Until then I’ll be adding ankle weights to you too. And don’t forget it’s all your fault too.
Chips act, green energy, union empowerment, student debt, marijuana reform, etc etc etc. Anyone that says Biden isn’t doing anything is wilfully ignorant.
You’re doing exactly what the parent comments described. All you’re doing is crying when the ball is rolled as much as it can be while you’re (likely) kneecapping him because he doesn’t have a majority in the house.
Couldn’t agree more. There’s a huge misunderstanding that the President is the most important facet of government, but the Executive has remarkably little ability to influence the law aside from directing the various agencies on how they should operate and utilizing the power of veto to check the legislative.
Trump won’t be a dictator on day one because that’s not how the office of President works. He will be, though, if Project 2025 is allowed to be implemented and they get rid of all the barriers to him having unilateral unchecked authority. This is also predicated on the possibility that he will not be held accountable by the courts and the Supreme Court rules that he can commit crimes and label them as “official acts”.
The big misunderstanding is that people think Trump alone can fulfill all of his campaign promises and Biden simply won’t, when the reality is that Biden can’t do it alone and neither can Trump (yet).
That’s fine. Go back to my OP, not organized enough, not supporting progressives enough. We don’t need a majority we need a super majority. You know, an impossible task.
Marijuana is still illegal federally. Schedule 3 is not legalization.
Forgiving student debt is not reform. A kid going to college today will still need to take on a ridiculous debt load and play the job/forgiveness lottery.
Biden very publicly told Unions where to stick it.
The green event stuff he funded is great but it’s not novel and he used it as a cover to protect the Big 3 Auto manufacturers from foreign EVs.
The CHIPs act is actually okay. 1 out of 5 things but being performative is good though right? That’s the standard?
You’re crying that it’s not legal yet. Let’s forget that he asked dea to look at rescheduling it and that he forgave federal possession convictions.
You’re crying he only did what he could and forgave debt and hasn’t gotten around to a Herculean overhaul of the entire post secondary system.
You didn’t see the follow-up with unions. I’d give the Beau of the fifth column video but they’re impossible to find.
You’re crying not novel enough, WTF. And you’re forgetting the green energy generation in the IRA.
You’re crying chips being only decent?
That was the easy stuff off the top of my head, and it’s just crying that nothing is ever good enough. Crying that it’s not fast enough. Nevermind that you’re (likely) kneecapping him with no majority in the house.
You’re exactly the character described in the top comments.
That was the DEA looking at it. It went from schedule 1 to schedule 3. Which is a year in prison and a fine for possession.
I’m not against him doing harm reduction, but call it what it is. Don’t forgive debt and sell it as a reform. Winning the presidential lottery is not a reform.
The follow up? Where railroad workers are still under manned and required to work sick? Oh I’m sorry we got some real reforms for the IT guys in railroading. But the guys on the tracks, who were getting abused before are still getting abused in the exact same ways.
Green energy generation is solved. It’s already cheaper to build, maintain, and use than fossil fuels. Many states already routinely hit 100% renewable energy on their grid. So much so that the business crowd is trying to get home solar financial benefits reduced because the market is saturated.
This isn’t “nothing is good enough” it’s stop doing merely performative shit and blowing smoke up my ass. I gave him credit for CHIPs, but the IRA was just a corporate grift wrapped in green paper.
Yes, that was the DEA being told by Biden to look at it. And you’re forgetting that he forgave federal possessions.
You’re back to crying about “only” forgiving some debt. And you’re back to crying about not doing a Herculean task of completely overhauling post secondary in 2 years. Who’s selling it as reform? Nobody. You’re making shit up just to cry about now.
The rail union got to negotiate. Whatever they got, they negotiate for themselves. You’re crying again that Biden didn’t do _______. It’s not even his place to negotiate or dictate what happens, but you’re crying about it.
Green energy generation still needed (needs?) a boot in the ass, which is exactly what IRA did. But you can’t cry about this one, so no credit to Biden! Oh wait there’s the crying about IRA. Seriously?
All you’re doing is crying about things not happening at warp speed. And then ignoring the things that do happen. You are exactly what the top comment are about.
What this comes down to: If you don’t vote, then you can’t complain or cry. Do you vote? Good. But I’ll say that your crying is largely inaccurate. Do you not vote? Then it’s bizarre and pathetic that you are crying while you are the one that is actively kneecapping progress.
Again. Hoping the president pardons you is not fucking reform.
And yeah we’ve known student debt was a problem for a decade. He knows he has four years in a term. Nobody wanting to reform things starts on January 20th. They start making plans years in advance or subscribe to think tank plans. Saying he’s only had his entire term is a bullshit excuse. That’s when shit gets done. He hasn’t got the job done. And that wouldn’t even be a big problem if he weren’t trying to tell people he did get the job done.
The rail union didn’t get to negotiate.b that was the entire reason they were going on strike. Biden forced them to take the company’s offer. That’s what breaking the strike does. At this point you’re straight up lying.
Oh so corporate grift wrapped in a green paper sounds like it’s not a complaint to you? He set EVs back 10 years.
I’m not complaining that things aren’t happening day enough. I’m complaining that you’re lying about what he’s done. I’m complaining that he lies about his accomplishments and then wonders why people don’t just fawn over him.
And you’re still crying that it’s not fast enough. Someone said it has to be reclassified first before either decriminalization or legalization (no idea if accurate). But you just want to cry that the boulder isn’t being pushed up the hill fast enough. And crying over what he could and did do. Not to mention that he can’t do it - Congress passes legislation, not the President. He did what he could which is tell DEA to look at it.
Still crying over not doing Herculean overhaul in TWO years. Because you need Congress. Congress is the one that could do massive reform, not the president. You don’t even know how your own government works and yet you want to cry. This is some serious “I’m 14 and don’t know how things work, but I’m going to cry about Biden bad” from you. That’s twice that you don’t even know how your government works.
Dude you can negotiate without a strike. This is more “14 and don’t know how things work”. Here I looked it up for you youtu.be/EM6jMtG_MB8 Also pay attention to how a rail strike would have ground the US economy to a halt. But don’t get the wrong idea, it was about Biden’s success pushing on the negotiations. You should watch him regularly. I’m very certain there’s another one with even more rail union wins but he often has shitty titles so I can’t find it. Don’t forget to cry though.
And more crying about green power generation. You want to set up a domestic industry, green power is not one and done. You can do way more when your country’s money feeds back into itself. For both generation and EVs. This is more 14 and have no idea how industry or long term industry works. But you just want to cry about not fast enough.
You dropped the chips stuff too.
I thought this before, but your reply here showed it full tilt. You have some serious “I’m 14 and don’t know how anything works” vibes. You are the epitome of what was said at the start:
Good news! Apparently a lot of excitingly new young progressives are mad we haven’t rolled it back up high enough and are refusing to help!
Wait. Okay, not good news. Sorry.
And
Because they’re not rolling it up fast enough! Can’t you see? They just have to roll it faster and preferably all the way and then I’ll get excited and help. Yup. Until then I’ll be adding ankle weights to you too. And don’t forget it’s all your fault too.
I notice you didn’t respond about voting either.
No matter what I say you’ll cry about something when you don’t even know how things work, so Ciao.
Right. We’re done here. I’m not the person you think you’re arguing with. It is a very simple idea. Stop lying about progress made. Have fun with your straw man. I think anyone reading this can see the lies about what’s been accomplished.
So you didn’t read anything huh? Or did you get too embarrassed at your own mistakes and how they bordered on lies? Why am I bothering with someone that denies reality. Ciao. (But if I find more rail wins from Biden I’ll let you know.)
OMG you caught me! I’ve been lying the entire time! Presidential pardons are totally reform. Schedule 3 substances don’t give you a record and a year in prison. The rail road workers aren’t still working under the points system, without key personnel, don’t have to schedule their sick days a month in advance, and definitely don’t have to worry about having those sick days cancelled on the day and being punished under the points system for that. The IRA was totally not actually a political grift to donors wrapped in green-wash.
You guys must be stamped in the same propaganda factory, “Quick, do a projection! Then people won’t know who’s telling the truth!”
The federal possession forgiveness was a red herring. It only applies to people in federal prison who aren’t also in for “violent” offenses, which all the aggravated and intent charges count as.
And yes federal because that’s what he has jurisdiction over. And yes violent offences are a big and completely different step up. It was intended to be possession and that what it was, not other things. You’re doing a weird deflection on what was a good call. And plenty of advisors probably pointed out that many times some decently bad incidents get argued down to possession for plea deal.
Almost no one is in federal prison for “just” possession. Almost no one serves time in federal prison for possession when their case is plead down. Part of an attractive plea deal is avoiding federal prison. Lots of weird shit counts as violent crime even though we wouldn’t think it was. Felony murder is a thing.
A red herring, especially in a narrative, is some piece of information meant to be misleading.
Biden pardoning of people with possession charges amounted to very few actual pardons, didn’t account for the Byzantine legal system and didn’t have any effect for precursor crimes. The intent was to get some publicity and seem like he’s doing something while actually not doing anything. Purposely misleading information. A red herring.
Yeah it’s not many people because most convictions are from the states, which he does not have jurisdiction over. Ok? Got it? The president can not do anything about state convictions or sentences. So he did what he could with federal charges, because federal charges is what he has jurisdiction over.
Part of an attractive deal is pleading down more serious stuff down to simple possession.
Red herring:
Something that draws attention away from the matter being discussed or dealt with.
It’s not a red herring. What you are trying to do is closer (still not quite) to a red herring because you are trying to draw attention away from what he could do and trying to minimize it with the repeated “not many”. The number doesn’t matter, he did what he had jurisdiction over, You are the one much closer to a red herring. Ciao.
Oh the pwesident doesn’t have any juwustiction owver the states… nothing he could do!
If I was a politician with more than 50 years under my belt running on tough on crime platforms and spearheading racist laws that ramp up the convictions of millions of black Americans for minor drug offenses with the knock on effect of providing police the chance to go hunting for more evidence, detain and steal the property of those people, would you call it a red herring when I grant clemency to the absolute barest minimum possible?
I obviously would, because I did, but language is mutable and it’s possible that there’s a better phrase when you’re responsible for the current juiced up run wild carceral slavery system holding millions and decide that a handful of people actually shouldn’t be in there but only the ones that you can very quietly grant clemency to without causing a stir and only the ones serving time on the most narrow range of charges which just happens to be nearly tangential to each other!
If you want to keep arguing about language, the word tangent should be your next target, I just described what most people would visualize as two shapes as being tangent to each other but only unbounded shapes like planes or lines can be tangential! Quick, start looking up definitions!
Biden created the laws and supported the growth of a system that put these people in prison for his entire career. He now occupies the highest seat of power in the nation and releases a tiny fraction of the people he’s responsible for the imprisonment of. If you won’t accept that it’s a red herring then I’m forced to call it bullshit.
Lol you turn to mocking the president about ??? the things he can and can’t do??? Yeah that about sums it up, you showed who you are. You have no idea how things work so sorry to say you’re acting like a child (with those spellings). Why am I even bothering, ciao.
Oh the pwesident doesn’t have any juwustiction owver the states… nothing he could do!
He’s just a smol bean sitting on the big chair! He literally can’t do anything more than the token gesture he made! No, don’t look at all the billions in federal funding and aid for state prisons! Don’t look at the huge standing army, don’t look at the billions in aid to foreign wars!
A sarcastic straw-man to avoid actually looking at Biden’s record. He believes it doesn’t matter as long as we can avoid electing Trump. Which would be okay if there was ever an alternative. But like any organization that’s effectively the only option, enshittification is happening with the Democrats.
More like he put the chock block in place to stop the roll and let the rich continue to fuck us before stepping side for the next Republican. I’m convinced he’s actively trying to lose this election between TikTok, EV restrictions, Gaza, and gaslighting people on the economy.
This is nonsense. If you believe that you should skip to violent revolution because you are not getting anywhere peacefully.
I’m (edit:not) saying I think that’s a good idea. But if you are going to refuse to vote for the better guy because he’s not good ENOUGH then you were never going to vote at all, and the rest of us will go back to persuading the last 3 swing voters.
Nobody is happy with Biden. Do you want to continue pushing the boulder up the mountain at the pace we don’t like, or let go and see what happens to the town downhill?
I don’t think it is taking accountability to flip a coin on whether or not an authoritarian demagogue insurrectionist who wanted to nuke random hurricanes and Iran should be in charge of the largest arsenals on the planet. Nor does adding additional corrupt regressives to SCOTUS teach the Dems a lesson, but it does put the very act of voting in jeopardy. It is myopic to throw the vote away.
It’s not even anything to do with China. Bibi and Biden do not get along, and Bibi is doing everything he can to damage Biden in this issue hoping he gets Trump, so he can show everyone what an actual genocide looks like.
Biden is in an impossible situation - trying to keep some influence over the horror while also staying at an arms length for all the people who apparently think he is giving orders to the IDF
One of them was telling me, today, how he is donating money to JFK Jr because he is siphoning away so many votes from Biden. He acted like he was involved in some secret mission and was being so sneaky.
It would be nice if they actually rolled it back up at all instead of just putting a chock block in to keep it in place until a Republican comes along.
Like the german nazi party desperately wants more people to be evicted from Germany, I say great, evict the AfD politicians and their voters! Wooot! Everyone happy!
Right, when the right wing fuckos trot out their obviously bad-faith arguments, we should be taking to them to their logical fucking conclusions right the fuck away.
It would be beautiful to see the entire Republican wing of the house pissing themselves and losing their shit knowing that an assassin from Biden could get them at any moment. Especially after the first few drop and Biden just says “it’s me, it’s totally legal and cool, right?” Also making sure to drop the first 20-or-so at the same time so right after it happens the Dems have a majority in both the House and Senate so no Republican can actually bring a vote for impeachment.
They’d be screaming bloody murder because the only thing they actually care about is their own skins.
No. If you read the article, you’ll see that this isn’t Sauer’s argument. It’s another ragebait title, and based on the comments in this thread, it’s working.
EDIT: Okay, I see the flaw in my thinking. Carry on.
Yeah it is. Maybe you’d like to think there’s some subtlety we’re missing because Sauer stated the President would need to be impeached to lose immunity, but what happens if the President assassinates anyone who would impeach him?
His argument is that there would be no possible legal recourse if a US president tried to seize absolute power the way Saddam Hussein did in Iraq, by having everyone in the legislature that might oppose him lined up and shot.
I know Elmer always lost, but I still want to see Trump being chased by Biden with a rifle like Elmer Fudd. Real life doesn’t have to imitate the cartoon.
But, Republicans would have you believe “fair is fair.” Trump got impeached, so Biden should get impeached. Trump got kicked off the ballot, so Biden should get kicked off the ballot. This has nothing to do with pesky things like details and rule of law, it’s just about my side vs your side, unless my side is winning, then I’ll take the law into consideration again.
I’ve seen a massive black man in a lovely dress and heels pick up a bachelorette, position her so she’s straddling him while he’s still standing, and vigorously dry-hump her in time with the music while continuing to sing the song at the top of his lungs, while her friends all cheered. I found that far less off-putting than this titty fondle.
Look at the people sitting right next to them watching the show. This is legitimately one of the most uncouth things I’ve ever seen.
Yep. The people at a show like that are 1) consenting adults, who 2) went to the show on purpose, and 3) didn’t bring their kids.
No one in the audience at a kid-friendly Beetlejuice showing went there to watch Bobo get her tits fondled while she blows vape smoke in people’s faces.
In some contexts yes… honestly for me I have a problem with two people getting frisky to that level in a packed theater while a play is going on that people came there to see. I don’t think they should go to jail or anything but I would definitely want them kicked out, and, it seems like they’d be happier in a hotel or something anyway, so win-win.
This is some guilt-tripping, gaslighting, deflecting DARVO bullshit, and I won’t have it.
Bigots do not become bigots because of their exposure to “others”. When those of us who are “others” [refuse to tolerate the intolerance of others] (out of principle or justifiable self-defense) (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance), their frustration and their lashing-out as a result is not our fault. Nobody can be held responsible for another individual’s lack of emotional self-control.
When people act out with violence, motivated by hate, fear, and ignorance, they are to blame— never the victims.
Someone being at fault for something, and someone unintentionally influencing another, are two separate things.
Family members going down toxic rabbit holes as a response to someone close to them coming out, is just that - a response to someone close to them coming out. It is quite literally cause and effect.
That doesn’t mean that the family member’s bigotry is the person’s problem though, nor should they feel any sense of blame whatsoever.
I’m not talking about causing effect. What I’m saying is that one family members decision to embrace hatred and bigotry is not the fault or the responsibility of the family member who came out of the closet. The family member who decided and made the choice to become a hateful bigot did so of their own accord, and the family member who bravely chose to live as their own self is not to blame for that.
One thing may have led to the other, but that does not mean that one thing inherits responsibility or blame for the other.
t’s not so simple as an assumed reaction as you imply: it’s not one object striking another, transferring energy, and causing the next object to move. This other family member chooses hate and bigotry and then to act on those ideologies and feelings. That is not the same as the simple thing you reference.
What I’m saying is that one family members decision to embrace hatred and bigotry is not the fault or the responsibility of the family member who came out of the closet
Like I said, I completely agree with this. And,
The family member who decided and made the choice to become a hateful bigot did so of their own accord
while true, that chain of events was started when they, bravely, came out. It’s not their problem, nor should they feel any guilt whatsoever, as there’s nothing that they did wrong. But the fact is that the toxic path the family member went down only happened because of that coming out. Literally just cause and effect, it’s factually what happened.
That’s why I say that there’s a difference between someone being at fault for something, and someone unintentionally influencing another. The article simply states that she saw his radicalism start when she came out. Not that her coming out was somehow wrong. She’s literally just stating her truth. Her coming out started him on this path. And, that’s not her fault.
I would argue it isn’t direct cause and effect as most likely that member has always harbored those feelings but being confronted with their beliefs is the catalyst that makes them veer into openly bigoted territory.
I think what OP is trying to say is that by claiming LGBTQ+ people coming out is the cause of people’s bigotry it will only make them less likely to come out but wouldn’t actually reduce the number of bigots in the world. (I know that’s probably not the argument you were trying to make, but it’s what it sounded like from the outside)
That’s entirely possible, but more than once I’ve seen genuinely great, kind-hearted people get sucked down toxic rabbit holes. Extremely liberal, open people getting slowly warped over time.
Hell, most of the time they don’t even realize it’s happening. I used the example in another comment, but it’s like someone indoctrinated into a cult. They didn’t exit the womb a cultist, this wasn’t always who they were. This happened to them at some point.
but then why blame the people that are saying “uhm you really shouldn’t be joining a cult (bigotry) that harms everyone” instead of the cult leaders (the bigoted mouthpieces pushing harmful rhetoric)?
it’s like saying that if your family never made claims the earth is round you would have never looked up anything related to it and wouldn’t have become a flat earther.
idk maybe it’s just that as LGBTQ+ i don’t like to think that if i were to come out it would cause my family to turn into bigots (which just makes me never want to bring it up 🤷)
Huh? Maybe I’m misunderstanding your comment, but I’m not blaming the people who criticize cults. Lol I’m one of those people, fuck cults. Maga in particular.
And as for your example, it’s hard to make a cause and effect argument when the cause is something that didn’t happen.
A better example would be if someone told someone else that the earth is round, so that second person decided to look into it. Through that, they stumbled upon the flat earth theory, and eventually got sucked into it.
In that example, the person only became a flat earther because the other person told them the world is round. Is that the second person’s fault? Are they to blame? Absolutely not, they were just stating a fact. But the reality is that that event led this other person into becoming a flat earther. That’s just what happened.
And genuinely I’m sorry, I hope your family, if you decide to come out, accepts and loves you for you. I’ve sadly known quite a few people who have had to deal with fallout from that, especially those living in more southern states. It’s heartbreaking. I’ve also known people whose family’s love them to death and barely bat an eye. So whatever you choose, choose what you need, what makes you happiest, whatever that may be.
And in case my point wasn’t clear, or it sounds like I’m saying something else, let me be clearer: It is absolutely not their fault. Not in the slightest. Their family’s toxic bs is their family’s alone, it’s not their burden to bare.
I think we’re both describing the same flat earth argument - still my point is that while there is a correlation between the coming out and the subsequent radicalization, it would be overly simplistic to claim direct causation. The coming out event acted as a catalyst that revealed and perhaps accelerated pre-existing tendencies in the family member who became radicalized, but it did not cause the bigotry itself.
it would be overly simplistic to claim direct causation
Considering one simply wouldn’t have happened without the other, I have to disagree. I agree that maybe these people may have a predisposition to radicalization, but the fact remains that said predisposition was only exploited because of the events prior.
Bigotry, in some ways sadly, isn’t something that one is born with. It’s something that people develop, whether it’s from their parents, environment, or they’re radicalized over time as they explore toxic rabbit holes online. Whatever the case, these people at one point were just like anyone else. I’ve seen it happen to genuine, loving, progressive people firsthand. It’s tragic.
So, at least the way I see it, a family member learning that someone close to them has come out, being ignorant of it and looking into it online, and then finding themselves in radical spaces, isn’t an outlandish idea. I’d wager that a lot of radicals probably began their descent from an innocent enough place, only to get deeper and deeper until it was far too late.
And of course! Regardless of any of this, I genuinely wish you all the best.
But the fact is that the toxic path the family member went down only happened because of that coming out. Literally just cause and effect, it’s factually what happened.
“The husband wouldn’t have beaten his wife if she didn’t burn dinner.”
Saying that the husband wouldn’t have beaten her if they hadn’t gotten married is a fact tho.
That doesn’t make it her fault for marrying him, she’s not responsible for his abuse. But the fact that it’s happening due to previous events is simply how the world works.
You replied to my post while missing the point of the post. I pointed that out.
Also, your point was meaningless and irrelevant other than trying to excuse away victim blaming. A wife burning dinner might be the catalyst for the husband to respond, but reasonable husbands wouldn’t beat her. They would react in some other way.
Burning dinner didn’t cause a beating any more than Musk’s daughter being trans caused him to be conservative. He was just a piece of shit and his daughter being trans highlighted that shittiness. She didn’t cause it.
Are you high? You didn’t post this, and you’re the one who replied to me first.
I’ve literally said multiple times that nobody is to blame, I’m genuinely starting to think you’re trolling or just looking to get into an argument for some reason. I’ve probably said that nobody should feel any guilt whatsoever, that they did nothing wrong, at least three separate times now.
You have been excusing victim blaming by saying it is just cause and effect from your first post. That is excusing victim blaming in the same way as the article.
I’m not excusing anything, I’m saying that in reality events lead to other events. This is just how things work, it isn’t an opinion or a slight, it’s objective fact.
Anyways, please reread the end of my last comment to you. I really can’t spell out any clearer that the victim is in no way to blame.
Museums are the place to display nazi propaganda. Individuals who display nazi propaganda are nazis or at least fine with promoting nazi propaganda.
I guess they could have disclaimers for context like a museum that would mean they are trying to educate viewers on how horrible the nazis were, but I doubt it. They should probably leave it to the museums.
First of all, what you said was not stated in the article, and it should have been, so they could at least pretend they weren’t victim blaming. As it is, they can’t even pretend, they’re stuck with people like you apologizing for their worthless drivel.
Second, you’re speculating that the family members went down toxic rabbit holes as a response. I think it’s just as likely that they already went down those rabbit holes, but others didn’t know about it, because they didn’t have occasion to proclaim their feelings. Which is to say, the damage had already been done, but you didn’t know it.
I agree that it should’ve been stated in the article, I’m not apologizing for them not doing so. I’m just reiterating what his daughter’s perception is, and that the reality of that isn’t “wrong”, as it’s entirely possible that his descent, if it was a descent, happened as a result.
Once again, this is literally how she saw things play out. That’s all the information we have, anything else is speculation, including the notion that he was like, born a bigot. Unfortunately these toxic ideas aren’t born with people, they’re infected with them at some point. And like I’ve said, I’ve personally witnessed it happen to genuinely terrific people.
So unless we all plan on ignoring Vivian’s own words, I don’t think there’s much more that can be said. And regardless, none of this was my point anyway. My point was literally that the title of the article isn’t wrong, and that something being caused by another can be possible without anyone being at fault for it.
I agree, but I don’t think OP is an idiot, imo it’s a totally valid response to have. I mean think of all the people that have come out, had their families lose their minds, and then be directly blamed for it.
Seeing a title like this and assuming that it’s assigning blame, even when its Vivian herself just stating the chain of events, is understandable when this is such a problem in the community.
I don’t think it’s racism, just a school with fucking insane rules that should never be allowed:
Barbers Hill Independent School District prohibits male students from having hair extending below the eyebrows, ear lobes or top of a T-shirt collar, according to the student handbook. Additionally, hair on all students must be clean, well-groomed, geometrical and not an unnatural color or variation. The school does not require uniforms.
Why the fuck schools give a single shit about how kids dress themselves or wear their hair is beyond me.
Those rules are there to be racist, these types of dress codes were literally invented to be exclusionary and/or erase culture to “”“assimilate”“” populations of native people.
The article also states the settlement will go to refunding the defrauded customers. This needs to be the standard when prosecuting public harm of a business.
Yep! Every tech CEO I’ve worked with has a mentality of “It’s just the cost of doing business.” Since if they get fined, it’s smaller than the profits they made. Or even better, many don’t get fined and it’s all profits!
As it stands - companies are punished for following the law.
I’d be happy with 1.1x, 1.2x revenue. They would loose our on development costs too. The only thing not recouped is any gain in brand recognition etc. Make them send a message to all of their customers, and take ads out informing the public how they broke the law, misled them etc.
I partially agree, but 100% of revenue is still a loss. The R&D, employee pay, rent for facilities, and cost of input resources are still negative. 100% of profit would only encourage it still, but 100% of revenue is potentially a pretty strong punishment.
It has to be more than every cent. That would still incentivize cheating since at worst it is a wash for them. Given they do not come close to getting 100% of offenders, the five needs to be multiples. It’s like fare enforcement on subways and light rail. If you skip paying, you’ll likely get away with it for a while. But overall, the five will cost you slightly more than if you would have just played by the rules.
The comment was a “complete joke” and the study was made-up, the Minneapolis mayor’s office told Fortune
Ah yes the typical “what? It was just a joke, why’s everyone mad at me?” reaction to saying something only an asshole would say, fuck this guy. So sorry rich people are going to make less money off of their real estate investments, boo fucking hoo, how about adapting to technological and cultural changes better? 🤷♂️
Disclosure: I work from home and enjoy it immensely. I never want to work in an office again.
So sorry rich people are going to make less money off of their real estate investments, boo fucking hoo, how about adapting to technological and cultural changes better?
There is that, and some rich people need to be boiled in their own pudding. But this affects all downtown businesses, even mom and pop shops. People will just flee like urban flight did when people went to the suburbs. What’s left? I hear about “well, turn office buildings into residential space,” but the logistics of that with fire codes, building codes, and urban planning are not drop in replacements. They can be done, but at great cost.
We’re looking at an urban decay beyond what we’ve planned for. Minneapolis is terrified to become another Detroit or Gary Indiana.
It doesn’t have to all be bad. If the city could get the head out of their ass, they could sort out the codes and get it done. Let people who work downtown live downtown. Shrink the driving and parking infrastructure, turn it into a walkable, bikeable area.
Rents/leases could go way down for the mom and pop shops that can survive in the new design.
Other businesses can move further out where the people are, so the suburbs can become more walkable.
If we made the focus on reducing waste, and making things easy for everyone, rather than how to make rich people richer, theres lots of solutions.
It was obvious 30 years ago downtowns were in trouble because businesses ere moving to suburbs. They still haven't made serious effort to change the root causes of that.
typing on my phone. I have never found a good keyboard for mobile. I turned autocorrect off long ago as it too often was changing what I wrote to something that was completely the opposite, at least without it you know I didn't mean that can can figure it out (I hope). I'm using thumb-key which overall I like, but there are still issues with it.
I have dysgraphia which means writing is already more difficult for me than most, combine that will small text boxes and random hitting of something I didn't mean...
I'm on a real computer now so I was able to run spellcheck and get at least the most obvious mistakes fixed.
In addition, increase housing density by removing single family only zoning and adding more missing middle and affordable housing. Make the city a place people want to live (and can afford to live) rather than just a place people commute in and out from in their noisy, polluting cars.
but the logistics of that with fire codes, building codes, and urban planning are not drop in replacements. They can be done, but at great cost.
Most of the buildings were talking about are made to accommodate stricter codes already. The problem isn’t really at all the cost of retrofitting them, so much as it is the lower rent/sf price they can charge for it.
Everything else you mentioned is fair, but the only reason people would rather leave urban centers if they don’t need to be there is the cost of living there. No matter how you slice it, the biggest obstacle to dense residential city centers is the established expectation of higher ROI on the space and the over-leveraged building owners who can’t afford to charge less for risk of defaulting on their properties.
In the end, it’s about bailing out the rich. They should have diversified their bets away from commercial real estate.
Covid mashed fast forward, but remote knowledge work was a thing before it. It was a foreseeable risk, even just from guessing normal rich people motivations: once the San Francisco crowd figured out they could cast a bigger net for talent, AND pay lower-cost-of-living city salaries to them, it was going to spread.
An attorney general is “advising hospitals to ignore a court order”.
Read that sentence again.
He is supposed to be an officer of the court. It is his job to uphold the law, regardless of how he feels about it personally. The judge ruled explicitly on this particular woman’s specific situation - there is no reasonable room for interpretation here.
This man is putting his own opinion above the rule of law. He is radically unsuited for his job and deserves to be disbarred.
This guy is under an FBI investigation and felony fraud charges. He is ignoring the court because he holds a criminal mindset and has zero respect for the law.
Not likely… he’s been under investigation for years. I was hoping his spat with the republicans that impeached him would accelerate his other legal issues, but they all concluded with a big nothing.
He was indicted 8 years ago. How he has managed to avoid a trial shows an astounding level of corruption in Texas. Fuck this guy and all the sycophants that protect and enable him.
The existing gag order from Justice Engoron most certainly does not cover this. AG James is not "court staff." There would be a very justifiable call for a mistrial if the court and the plaintiff are on the same "staff."
Trump would probably need to be arrested for the crime of doxxing. This can be charged in New York State, or - because AG James is both a State employee and an officer of the law - also at the federal level.
Widening the gag order sounds much more appropriate.
It really doesn't, though, because the end result is that Donald Trump, 45th fucking President of the United States, gets away with creating a substantial threat to the safety of a government employee involved in litigating against him in one of many court cases. Again.
But they'll say "Oh, everybody knew that already, see it was someone else's article!" and "AG James is not court staff!" and "First Amendment!" and "Get some flypaper!" And he will get away with it, again. He'll get away with it next time, too.
The only way to keep him from stochastic terrorism is for one of the criminal courts to revoke his bond and put him in detention pending trial.
Someone is going to have to die before they are willing to crack down. I am hopeful that our justice system won’t let him slide. I imagine the long term damage would be devastating otherwise.
It’s just that people with far more political and legal credibility than me are going to extraordinary lengths to ensure that the opportunities to cry foul as are minimal as possible.
You’re absolutely correct that this behavior reprehensible and all the rest but that specifically isn’t a crime.
The n the contrary, if doxxing is a crime and he meets the letter of the law he should be charged with that instead. And held without bond. Let him sit in jail without a phone until his lawyers successfully appeal the bond ruling.
If that isn’t already the name of some obscure software or package/library/etc I’ll be disappointed it already sounds like I need to import it into my Python code idk what it does but without it shit just crashes
While the organization might do good work, I see far too many red flags in their demands. They are lobbying against end-to-end encryption for chat messages. The argument is that child abusers can hide behind encryption. While this is true, a ban would lead to no privacy for everyone.
The real-life equivalent would be mandatory microphones for everyone so authorities could catch child molesters more easily. Good cause but horrible methodology. And of course, if they succeed, criminals will move to other, maybe their own-built, messaging systems that still have encryption.
I think it’s fair to judge someone directly involved with covering up a rapist when that person is also very vocal and actively involved in combating exactly that crime. That’s a pretty massive lapse in judgement and more indicative of his true character than someone that had a single instance of road rage or similar emotional outburst.
This is a pretty serious accusation. Just because he wrote a character letter does not mean he is actively involved in covering up a crime, that’s a gigantic leap.
his true character
And what would that be? A person who vouches for his friend? Someone who misjudged another person’s character, a mistake presumably you’d never make?
I think it’s fair to judge
No, you think it’s fun to judge and it’s your excuse to feel morally righteous and superior. You’ve made some accusations and backhanded disparagement based on what info? How is any part of it “fair”?
Yea, I get it, some will disagree but, in the end, I'm a bigger fan of "call out culture" than "cancel culture". The former gives the person a chance to course-correct.
But “cancel culture” makes keyboard warriors and the Twitterverse feel saintly, holier-than-thou and powerful because it takes just a few tweets to mess people up! And look righteous while doing it!
Maybe they are valuable members of society after all! /s
You gonna pin the tail on cancel culture and “The Twitterverse” for criminals like Jeffrey Epstein being outed too? Lmao you’re a joke. Masterson RAPED WOMEN, many more of them than the mere handful that were included in the case, i promise you. And his friends went out of their way to use their influence and names to sway a judge in his favor. That’s fucked up, and anyone who says differently is blatantly in support of rapists, rape apologists, or is undoubtedly one themselves trying to justify monstrous behavior.
I’m not talking about Masterson, Epstein and their crimes - I’m talking about Kutcher, who has done more to help anti-child trafficking than all you keyboard warriors put together. Guilt by association is not a thing, despite how much you get off on it and want to wish it into reality.
anyone who says differently is blatantly in support of rapists, rape apologists, or is undoubtedly one themselves trying to justify monstrous behavior.
Witch hunt 101, anyone? You’re so excited to judge, sentence and exert perverse power over another person’s life, you don’t even realize you are doing the exact same thing as history’s witch hunt instigators, under the guise of a modern, rebranded religion.
While I would tend to agree, if I'm reading this correctly, they sent the letters for the sentencing... meaning he was already convicted of rape and they were pleading for leniency for an old rapist buddy, like within the last few months. That is a really bad look no matter how you slice it.
I don’t believe in guilt by association. Asking for leniency for an old friend to a judge, and he didn’t get it, doesn’t make them monsters or rapists by proxy.
If our culture demands every felon be shunned by their friends and family members going forward, then end the perverse charade and just kill everyone upon a felony conviction.
Masterson did a very bad thing, some friends wrote letters to inform the judge that that isn’t all he is and to consider that, not out of malice, but out of compassion.
Man, the internet has absolutely destroyed the concept of nuance. Then again, we only see our “justice,” lol, system as a way to turn the screws on bad people… that our society made, btw. Wanton spectator cruelty without the guilt. Not even a hint of attempts at rehabilitation, and just about everyone roots for a parolee’s failure to confirm their biases.
Advocating maximum cruelty be inflicted on a perpetrator shouldn’t be confused with compassion for the victim. Americans largely ignore that distinction, because it’s convenient, easy, and pleasurable to revel in cruelty and call it kindness.
Or… we could accept that Masterson RAPED people, and maybe don’t give him any support, regardless of his past actions. We don’t need to hold out a hand for the fallen rapist. There are too many people in the world that genuinely need help that wasting even an iota of effort on a rapist is a slap in the face to them, not to mention the people the rapist has harmed. There is no nuance.
Masterson did RAPE people. Now, do we want to punish him and rehabilitate him, or get our vengeance boner on and beat on him because that hilariously makes our society feel virtuous?
So much for society demonstrating being better than than those that violate its laws. Blood! Blood! More blood! Give us bloooood!
Except this isn’t about Masterson. This is about Kutcher’s support for him. If I have a friend that turns out to be a rapist, that’s not a friend. That’s someone hiding an important, deal breaking secret. If you’ve hidden that from me, I’m not going to tell a judge you’re an otherwise good person that shouldn’t be punished accordingly. If I kept that person as a friend after their rapist nature is revealed, that speaks very poorly on my judgement.
If you really don’t believe that these are people that did something wrong, that they should be shunned for the rest of their days by every living being, where’s the virtue in even keeping a felon alive? Why don’t we just have a door to a firepit in every jury courtroom that opens upon a guilty Verdict? Why pretend to weigh punishment with mercy, but still set them up for failure in every possible way?
Honest question, do we want to be a benevolent society that sees a fallen member, and wants to help them reintegrate after their just punishment, or is mercy as a positive thing in our society as stone dead a concept as greed being a negative thing?
Ignoring the “Haven’t we already been hard enough on the rapist?” Choice:
I firmly believe in rehabilitation and am opposed to the death penalty for all but the most heinous of crimes.
But there has been no rehabilitation. This is someone who has spent the better part of two decades silencing his victims and running from his crime. And to come out and say “He deserves leniency” is REAL fucking stupid and, quite frankly, completely undermines any attempt to be seen as “one of the good ones” with respect to a sex abuse organization (and let’s not get into how said org mostly exists to hunt and punish sex workers).
Don’t be glib. If it came out that my oldest friend wqs not only a rapist, but also used his fame and religion to silence the victims and avoid prosecution… AND I was involved with an organization with the express purpose of stopping sex abuse… I’d absolutely tell that friend to pound sand.
There were multiple times when I learned that friends of mine were sexually assaulted, some of those times were by people I considered friends. There’s zero chance that I’d do anything to “put in a good word” for the rapists I once called friends, because their actions in my company have ZERO baring on how they acted in private.
Tl;Dr: If you’re vouching for the upstanding nature of a convicted rapist based on your interactions when he wasn’t being a duplicitous rapist… that says more about your ignorance to how terrible that person can be as opposed to the good works you saw from the rapist when they weren’t raping. You’re also a victim.
Masterson demonstrated no mercy in raping his victims.
Our society demonstrating no mercy to those our society failed, and we did at some point for most felons if not Masterson, just makes us another link in the chain of cruelty. Mercy should always be considered, at every step, especially if we as a society espouse to be better than those we prosecute.
Justice isn’t for pleasure, vengeance is. If you’re feeling good about anyone’s suffering, Masterson or his victims, that isn’t a sense of justice you’re feeling.
No, its compassionate, whether you agree its deserved or not.
Once again, a harsher punishment for the victimizer doesn’t equate to more compassion for the victim.
You can’t demonstrate compassion through cruelty. Reasonable punishment is justice, getting off on maximizing punishment is vengeance. Getting angry at a friend of the victimizer asking the judge to consider LESS THAN THE MAXIMUMUM CONCEIVABLE PUNISHMENT is literally getting mad at calls for mercy because it might have diminished your desire for maximum vengeance.
This is some I’m 16 and this is deep bullshit. The point is we have a process in place to convict and sentence people charged with crimes. Once he was found guilty do his friends need to abandon him? No. But do they need to actually have him show a change BEFORE they show “leniency”. Yes. Your whole argument is so dumb it borders if not crosses over into making you a rape apologist.
Did he get the death penalty? What are you proposing his sentence be then? Couple weeks and some knitting classes? Rehabilitation takes time, and I’m all for that. But that’s not what Ashton and Mila were asking for. They were asking for a lighter sentence because he’s a good guy. You aren’t even arguing about the original topic though so none of this is relevant anyways.
I consider our ENTIRE “justice” system to be archaic, regressive, punitive, pay to win, and unredeemable. It needs to be destroyed and rebuilt. We have no rehabilitation, more prisoners oer capita than any nation on Earth by a lot, even the ones we ironically make fun of for being authoritarian, and basically we expect to torture our way out of criminality.
I agree Masterson deserves no special treatment, but Americans deserve a benevolent justice system that seeks restorative justice, absolutely NOT making examples of people as we do all the time to cruel cheers.
You really want our courts to continue to appeal to fear rather than respect?
Are you trying to tell me that Society failed Danny Masterson? Do you proof read what you write? No. Society failed the women that he raped. Society fails the millions that will die of treatable disease this year. Society fails the single mother that has to work three jobs to support herself and her child. Society did not, I repeat, did not fail Danny Masterson. Society taught him that rape is bad. Danny decided to do it anyway. Danny failed society.
I did no such thing. I know nothing about the case other than the accusation being strong enough that he was dropped from the Ranch and didn’t appear in that 90s Show. If there was physical evidence I don’t know how someone could think he didn’t do it and write these letters, even if they have been friends for 25 years. Only if there weren’t physical evidence could I fathom someone close to him like that believing that maybe he didn’t do it.
This is ridiculous. I assumed nothing. I asked a simple yes or no question, because I cannot fathom why they wrote these letters either. Commenting is a waste of time, no one is interested in conversation.
Wtf is up with Lemmy and people taking the time to reply to a comment without just answering a yes or no question? Is it the clientele? It’s like a damn Gentoo Linux forum where people put more effort ridiculing people than answering questions.
If they didn’t think he did it I could see writing these letters. If they think he did, I cannot fathom writing them. Does that make it clearer?
I’m not saying that we need to flog the guilty. I’m just saying that we don’t need to offer him more help than anyone else would get. Is Kutcher writing letters to every judge involved in a rape case and asking for them to go easy because the perp was a youth pastor? Justice is supposed to be blind. If celebrities, politicians, etc. get special treatment then we aren’t working to fix society, we are letting people in power run around doing whatever the fuck they want. Masterson should receive all the help the justice system affords a rapist, but not one bit more, and definitely not because he has celebrity friends writing letters on his behalf.
For just about any other crime I’d tend to agree with the sentiment, but for nearly any other crime I can come up with some hypothetical scenario where that crime is justifiable, where I can comprehend the reasoning behind the act.
I can’t come up with any hypothetical where rape or sexual assault is justifiable.
It’s never justifiable, agreed, but I disagree that it cannot be understood or that the victimizer deserves special worse punishment or consideration. Before we tested for people on the spectrum, people that legitimately lacked the capacity of impulse control were executed like anyone else. Now courts bicker about how low functioning you have to be for such things.
Some people are born very low functioning and never get diagnosed, or throttle that line, and weren’t raised well, etc. Americans in general often refuse to see such nuance in such cases. They prefer to imagine a fair black and white world where every rapist is some evil mastermind when often they aren’t in control of themselves any of the time. It’s not like our mental healthcare system is robust enough to identify and mitigate those issues for poor kids who need it.
I’m sure there are regular and high functioning rapists, like Weinstein and statutory rapists, but I rarely see a differentiation between those calculated actors and some barely sapient person with sporatic impulse control who really doesn’t have the capacity to empathize with their victim or consider the consequences, but squeaked by on the mental competence review. Those are worlds apart imho and should be treated as such.
Im just boggled at the mind at how concerned you are for the mechanics of rapists and how there’s something that makes them rape people and don’t seem to be at all concerned with the effects they have on those they raped.
I see this whole devils advocate thing and like whatever this is internet share your peace, but I just can’t understand how lacking empathy for the people you hurt in any way should lessen the consequences of the impact you cause. Context does not excuse consequences. I’m sure Masterson is sick in the head, you’d have to be to rape someone as maliciously, viciously, and violently as he did. I just hope you’re also out here advocating for more support to the victims who are now also sick from the trauma that was directly caused by this man’s actions.
Sure, let someone who according to you can’t control themselves back on the street and give him a lighter sentence. I’m sure he won’t go out and rape again since his lack of control apparently stops once he’s caught and convicted. We should just wait to see if he does it again and say “ooops, his bad let’s try another 5 years” to his next victim and send her off with hopefully a good ass therapist for the rest of her life since that’s how long the rape is going to affect her.
You talk about society lacking nuance but your nuance seems to extend only to the rapist and his buddies. They were not advocating for him to be rehabilitated. They were asking for him to get less time since “his daughter not having a father” would be an injustice. Sure, he’s been convicted of rape, but the injustice of the law here would be his daughter visiting him in jail where he’s not raping people. Now if Kutcher was like “he’s clearly sick, I hope you find an alternative to prison that helps rehabilitate him so he won’t harm others” I could see your point. That’s not what he said. That’s not what he was asking for. People are angry because it’s enraging to see celebrities and rich people get special treatment. Use each other’s fame to hurt others and escape consequences. Your worry about a lack of nunca is funnily enough so black and white in its arguments, you could say it in and of itself lacks nuance to how complicated the subject and ramifications of rape on a person actually are.
I think through introspection, education, and rehabilitation most criminals can work toward enlightenment and betterment. But sex offenders commit the most heinous of all crimes and deserve no extra consideration. They are blemishes in human evolution and are plagues on decency and humanity. At the absolute very best, they should be locked away from the rest of us
Is it really for an exception? Or just not making it any longer due to additional bad character traits?
My understanding is they look at the range of acceptable punishment, and then use these factors to determine where it should land. Providing a letter explaining his character would serve to put it on the lower end of it. It’s not so much an exception as it is just providing evidence for the court to make an informed decision for the range.
He didn’t get convicted of rape and being unlikeable. He was convicted of rape. The penalty being assessed is the penalty for rape. Whatever else he may have done, good or bad, he did the rape. He should pay the penalty for the rape that he did. If he collects money for disabled children on Sundays, he shouldn’t be punished less, he should pay the penalty for rape. If he’s a jerk who gets drunk on weeknights and starts his political opinions with “I’m not racist, but…” he shouldn’t be penalized additionally for that. He should be penalized for rape. This thing where we make room for “He’s a rapist, but…” is fucking garbage. It reeks of Brock Turner’s dad trying to reduce the lifetime of harm his son inflicted on a woman to “10 minutes of action”. If a rapist who operates a puppy rescue is less of a rapist than a rapist who does other things we all agree to be unpleasant then it’s not about the harm inflicted, it’s about how much we all generally like the rapist.
I agree with you in principle. But that isn’t how the judicial system works. Usually there’s a minimum, which is the actual punishment for the crime. Then there’s the maximum which is what they give you if you’re a repeat offender or they just generally think you’re an extra shitty person.
Given that, someone with otherwise good character is expected to get the minimum, which is the time for the crime without getting extra. In this case that minimum is 30 years.
But yeah, if you want to talk about how shit the judicial system is, I agree. I could go on about plea bargains, penalty ranges, etc being used as tools of oppression.
He’s a repeat offender. He was convicted on multiple counts. Strictly speaking, he’s not just a rapist, he’s a serial rapist.
But I do think we’d agree about plea bargains. They let the guilty off scot free and let the overworked, underfunded judicial system off the hook when it comes to innocent defendants.
Nobody is saying it makes them monsters or rapists by proxy, it just makes them friends of a rapist who stayed his friend even after it was proven that he raped at least two people, and then asked for him to be treated leniently even though he certainly didn’t grant any leniency to the people he raped. And they’re free to do that. But disapproving of that isn’t guilt by association, that’s just them making choices regarding their relationship with a rapist that other people are free to judge and criticize them for.
Well, so I get that asking for leniency for an old buddy sure. However… the specific crimes he committed and the organization that Ashton works for/runs whatever. That’s a bad fucking look. That’s a real bad fucking look. Like, that undermines a lot of shit he’s done look.
In other words, whether Ashton Kutcher is actually guilty of anything does not matter, because a “bad look” is like a virus, and conviction enough for people to feel justified in upending his life / work. So proud of this brave new neo-puritanical world we live in today. /s
You’re right, this kind of thing is nothing new. We’ve always been a society which will turn on a dime on anyone, no matter how good or poor the excuse, if given a good pretext to do so. It seems to be human nature.
Never give up a free chance to step on another human being to make oneself feel taller. Give them a few kicks while they are down for good measures. All made extra easy by the internet and cancel culture!
The letters are typically asked for before conviction as a just-in-case. He’s still asking for leniency for his rapist buddy I just thought I’d clarify that little bit.
“As it stands now, Brock’s life has been deeply altered forever by the events of Jan. 17th and 18th. He will never be his happy-go-lucky self with that easygoing personality and welcoming smile. His every waking minute is consumed with worry, anxiety, fear and depression,” Dan Turner wrote. “His life will never be the one that he dreamed about and worked so hard to achieve. That is a steep price to pay for 20 minutes of action out of his 20-plus years of life.”
His worst decision was very relevant to the organization he was part of. I get that they are friends but he probably should be in a good position to understand how unlikely it is that his friend was innocent and how dumb it would be to put himself on the line defending him given what that organization stands for.
Unfortunately, it doesnt matter how much good you’ve done. People love witch hunts. Whether this is his worst decision or not, it’s one decision, now the rest are erased.
He’s done good and would continue to, but people are happier if he is never heard from again rather than him helping kids for the rest of his life.
Oh wow, sounds like he freaked out and confided with Masterson that night. Interesting context in light of this character letter controversy and as far as their relationship goes.
That we can say Kutcher was wrong for supporting Masterson while also acknowledging that Kutcher has done good things. People aren’t good or bad, they are a mixture. Condemn the bad traits and praise the good traits.
Damage to the image of the sport?! The one that constantly has people cheating and being stripped of their medals? Oh yeah, wouldn’t want to ruin that!
They have no imagination when it comes to cheating in the Tour de France these days. Now, it’s all performance enhancing drugs. But back in the good old days-
“They would trail a thin piece of wire right behind a motor car, which, at one end, had a cork fixed on to the end of it,” Cossins explains. “And the rider would wedge the cork between his teeth. And then get towed along with this thing, this wire, pulling him along.”
There was a cool hightech one where they hid an invisible motor inside the frame of the bike. It could not move the bike by itself but it added a few watts that gave a clear advantage. road.cc/…/uci-warns-it-impossible-use-motors-tour…
Remember when they stripped Lance of his win, and they were going to award it to the next place finisher who didn’t also cheat, but they didn’t have one?
It doesn’t sound to me like he thought he was above the law. He seemed to know the consequences. He just didn’t think that Trump should be above the law. Or, at the very least, above presidential decorum.
news
Top
This magazine is from a federated server and may be incomplete. Browse more on the original instance.