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Velociraptor , in Transgender rights are under attack. But trans people 'just want to thrive and survive.'
@Velociraptor@lemmy.world avatar

Can confirm. Don’t want to be brave. Don’t want to be controversial. Don’t want to piss anyone off. Don’t want to stick it to anyone. Just want to live my own life and be left the fuck alone like literally everyone else. This very real problem that I was born with is my issue to fix and no one else’s. And my life would have been a hundred times easier if I’d been listened to when I first voiced this problem as a minor.

WoefKat , (edited )

I really really don’t understand what people have against you. What you do with your body is obviously none of their business whatsoever. I don’t get why people even want to have an opinion about that.

FWIW I’m really happy for you that you can live your life in the proper body to match your soul and I’m an LGBTQI+ ally <3 (and a little on the Q side myself).

I can understand people don’t want to be trans because they are simply in the right body or they aren’t but have religious doubts or whatever but that deep hatred I see even in some of my “friends” scares me.

Velociraptor ,
@Velociraptor@lemmy.world avatar

No one wants to be trans. We just are born with it and have to figure it out. It’s basically a medical issue. I didn’t choose to do anything to my body either. The choice isn’t there when not transitioning can deteriorate to being fundamentally incompatible with staying alive. A lot of bigots insist that transitioning is some trendy or otherwise low stakes thing but our lives would be so much easier if it was as easy as just not transitioning.

WoefKat , (edited )

I apologize , that didn’t come across as intended. I didn’t mean to imply that it’s a matter of wanting at all.

I just argued against the narrative that somehow trans people are forcing cis people to become trans. Obviously they don’t ‘want’ that because they are in the right body for them. This is where all the “Don’t say gay” idiocy comes from. Because they view it as propaganda or something.

But of course the whole premise is BS. Even the concept of ‘becoming’ trans is. And yes I know it’s not a choice <3

But that came out wrong.

fosforus , (edited )

We just are born with it and have to figure it out. It’s basically a medical issue.

I’m sorry, but this is just not true. It’s necessarily at least partially a psychological and social issue. Why am I certain about this? Because there are clear distinctions in the number of transgender people in different time periods and different age groups. Our species hasn’t changed in 10-30 years, but these numbers have changed massively.

If you’re steelmanning the argument of “terfs”, this is the thing they’re critical about. If we are in some easily correctable way causing trans people to appear where they in other circumstances would not, this should be looked into. For instance, the number of transgender identified people doubled during the Covid years. So perhaps it’s not a good idea to hole up teenagers in their rooms every day and prevent them from seeing their peers?

This is not to say that people with this condition (whatever its reason) should be treated differently from those without the condition. As you said, almost nobody wants to be trans, so if it can be actually prevented (in ethical ways, not like electroshock therapy or conversion therapy or some other absolute shit like that), that’s certainly a good thing?

b3nsn0w ,
@b3nsn0w@pricefield.org avatar

the number of measured sinister people (as in, left-handed, that’s where the word comes from) were rising like crazy too when it started gaining cultural acceptance that maybe, just maybe it’s not evil that you use your left hand to do things. it was like a whole epidemic, sinister people started popping up left and right.

…and then it plateaued at a flat 12.5% and stayed there since. turns out that’s just the biological occurrence rate, but everyone was under-measuring it because people weren’t willing to own it up that they’re left-handed.

trans people are the same. you get different amounts of persecution for it between different time periods and different regimes, and you get different levels of acceptance in different age groups, but the level of persecution is not zero anywhere. it’s not as normalized as just being a lefty. as such, the measured number of trans people is below the real amount in all of these situations, and how much below it is represents the amount of repression and persecution. we’ll get accurate numbers for the occurrence rate of people born in the wrong bodies when the stigma is gone.

also, you seriously misinterpreted the medical issue. the issue isn’t with the brain, it’s with the body. you’re not a pile of muscle with some neurons slapped on top of it, you’re a brain piloting a meat suit, and if the meat suit is the wrong kind that’s what needs to be corrected. and that correction is much easier to do before puberty than after. which is why you need to listen to trans kids and at the very least give them puberty blockers, or preferably adequate hormone therapy. but you can’t “prevent” trans people unless you can detect and fix the issue in the womb.

fosforus ,

he number of measured sinister people (as in, left-handed, that’s where the word comes from) were rising like crazy too when it started gaining cultural acceptance that maybe, just maybe it’s not evil that you use your left hand to do things. it was like a whole epidemic, sinister people started popping up left and right.

Social acceptance is clearly a factor – which is why I said that this is also a social issue.

and that correction is much easier to do before puberty than after. which is why you need to listen to trans kids and at the very least give them puberty blockers, or preferably adequate hormone therapy.

I have yet to find (and I have tried because my close family has a transgender individual) an impartial and comprehensive study on the effects on puberty blockers. I have found plenty of studies separately confirming both sides of the issue. Puberty blockers seem to be at the same time absolutely harmless and the most destructive thing you can give a teenager. I’d be happy to look at such studies.

the issue isn’t with the brain, it’s with the body.

Sorry, I don’t get this. Why cannot it be an issue with the brain? We know for certain that the brain does wonky stuff a lot. Why couldn’t this be one of them? Some people get gender dysphoria at a later age, does that mean that their body was correct until that point in time?

but you can’t “prevent” trans people unless you can detect and fix the issue in the womb.

Except you can if we consider the possibility that it’s created also by psychological or social circumstances. Increased numbers during Covid lockdowns suggest this. If we don’t face another pandemic, the statistics should soon enough show us if it actually had any effect – if the trend continues like this then it obviously didn’t have an effect.

I also haven’t seen statistical studies about this, and it’s probably too early also to study it properly.

b3nsn0w ,
@b3nsn0w@pricefield.org avatar

have you considered that maybe covid just gave people some much needed time to sit back, relax, and recognize things about themselves?

this isn’t rocket science. i get the shtick of the “enlightened” centrist but when one side just wants to exist and the other side wants a trans genocide the right answer isn’t maybe a little genocide, as a treat. and if you don’t know how to tell apart conflicting data about trans people, you’d do well to actually listen to them for once, as opposed to discrediting them as biased and “just one side”.

fosforus , (edited )

have you considered that maybe covid just gave people some much needed time to sit back, relax, and recognize things about themselves?

Yeah, sorry, definite nope to this. We have plenty of data about this, and the data clearly shows dramatically increased mental issues in pretty much all groups of young adults caused by the lockdowns. Whether these issues have anything to do with transgenderism is of course not shown by that data. Mental issues correlate strongly with transgenderism though, but you can legitimately claim that that’s at least partly due to social anxiety.

this isn’t rocket science. i get the shtick of the “enlightened” centrist but when one side just wants to exist and the other side wants a trans genocide the right answer isn’t maybe a little genocide, as a treat. and if you don’t know how to tell apart conflicting data about trans people, you’d do well to actually listen to them for once, as opposed to discrediting them as biased and “just one side”.

Do you honestly think based on this discussion that I want trans genocide even a little bit? That I want the person in my close family to die?

EatATaco ,

This is an unfair response. I absolutely disagree with the other poster, but implicitly accusing them of supporting a little genocide, rather than just having a disagreeable opinion, is just so fucking bizarre and uncalled for.

b3nsn0w ,
@b3nsn0w@pricefield.org avatar

genocide doesn’t just mean murder, it means destruction of a people, which can be done by destroying identities even without killing the people behind those identities. i don’t think it’s inaccurate.

said other poster is actively advocating for a form of conversion therapy, just on little kids instead of adults, while questioning whether trans people are even real or just a delusion. if you hang around literally any oppressed group you’ll see this “well-educated genuine concern” and conditional support rhetoric all the time. it’s veiled bigotry, nothing more.

EatATaco ,

They might be a bigot, I don’t really know. But nothing they said is so offensive that I could possibly interpret it as suggesting any level of genocide.

It just strikes me as trying to demonize a person to make it easier to reject their position without giving it much thought. Why consider anything coming from the mouth of s genocidal maniac?

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Considering it’s only relatively recently that being trans wouldn’t get you arrested (and earlier murdered), of course there are more openly trans people now!

fosforus ,

Yes, judicial acceptance contributes to its being a social issue.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Right after that you suggest that the number of trans people now over the past is something about trans people and not about humanity.

The number of trans people has not changed.

The number of trans people who feel comfortable in their own bodies has changed.

fosforus , (edited )

This could be true. You’re claiming it way too strongly, I think. It could also be that the acceptance of transgenderism is causing people to form transgender identities. This is not an absurd concept given neuroplasticity and the theory of Behaviorism.

Velociraptor , (edited )
@Velociraptor@lemmy.world avatar

As a sufferer, it’s true. It’s very real. I can’t argue with your ridiculous post any more than a diabetic can be expected to argue in favor of having access to insulin. Terfs have literally nothing to do with my experience with being trans. Everything you have written here is exhausting to have to deal with and it’s insane that people trot out this clowny shit when they have no idea what it’s like to live with this their entire fucking lives.

Downvoting me doesn’t invalidate my lived experience lmao

Drivebyhaiku ,

I mean the difference is likely not based out of a difference in the number of trans people but in the cultural risk one has in living out of the closet. Destigmatizing left handedness saw a sudden generation jump in people who were left handed. If you don’t think you are likely to be accepted you struggle in darkness.

The covid bump has another possible explanation. My trans nature long existed in the shadow. My industry is such where it’s all short term employment and causing your team any friction could mean falling to the bottom of the employment pool. I didn’t try to be out because it came with drawbacks. Coming out to people is also the process of onboarding everyone and that transition period where people know but are still fucking up your name and pronouns takes a lot of your mental energy. It some ways it sucks less when people don’t know they are hurting you. Then it’s just not their fault. Once they know the struggle to switch how they think of you is plain. It’s obvious they don’t think of you as your gender, they just are faking it until they do and that disparity draws more attention to your own body and presentation and the uphill battle of true acceptance even if they are theoretically on board with trans issues. My Mom STILL fucks up my name and pronouns and even though she loves me it’s like an admission that she will NEVER actually see me as I see myself. It’s difficult to do that and work a soul crushing job at the same time so it was something I did one person at a time and I was a fucking hot mess in the process.

Then Covid happened and I was isolated in my cohort of friends and family to whom I was spottily out to. I had the time to DO the work and have the conversation and be the hot mess. I figured out I was trans back when I was 21 but there was a fifteen year gap before I came out to people outside because it seemed like a monumental task where I would risk losing a huge chunk of my relationships, risk my career and still have to juggle going to work every day even when I felt like dying. But since people started talking about it and showing trans issue support it gave me hope that there would be light on the other side. So by the time covid came around I was half-out.

But then during covid I got to live as myself full time. It’s like having an allergy you are exposed to all the time. You don’t realize exactly how shitty you feel until you stop being exposed to it and you realize that your capacity to feel generally more energetic and healthy is actually way higher than you thought… And returning to exposure makes it hit that much harder.

Returning to work I realized how bad I actually felt and felt more compelled to do something about it. Having the time to actually do the work, not on myself but on the people around me, gave me a taste of what it feels like to be healthy and it’s hard to forget being actually happy and then willingly just go back to being miserable. From the outside it might look like being cooped up caused me to be trans but it’s the opposite. Being cooped up gave me time to properly socially transition where the risks were lowered.

fosforus ,

Great anecdote, thank you for that.

My trans nature long existed in the shadow.

This is one of the difficult parts for most of us normies, I suppose. If I imagine myself in a woman’s body, the thought doesn’t fill me with neither anticipation nor dread. It seems to me that my identity is not at all linked to my gender. Is this just a symptom of being too comfortable with the current situation and not being able to properly imagine how a conflict would feel like?

Drivebyhaiku ,

Probably. I ask cis folk about this pretty frequently because while I understand being trans I don’t actually know what it is like to be cis, it is just sort of assumed mutual experience amongst cis folk. Trans is my lived experience and our society insists we need to defend our needs in ways that make sense to them but cisness is just as interesting. I encounter two camps. The majority of cis people I ask this question to just don’t feel strongly about their body on the axis of their sex. They might feel dysmorphias around not looking good by the rubric of their sex that’s more about how the privilege of beauty or ugliness impacts their lives.

I have also encountered a minority of cis people who are actually decently euphoric about their gender. Sometimes that has to do with the cultural bits of their experience and sometimes not. The one thing they have in common is they actually just really love what they got going on. Being male or female is an integral part of their self identity.

My personal COMPLETELY unsubstantiated posit that these two versions of cisness are distinct and the with the euphoric version they are basically experiencing the key component of binary trans nature with the one factor different being the body and mind are in alignment and not at odds.

Some of the non-binary agender experience seems almost like an extreme version of what you experience where the concept of gender matters so little internally that it’s outside application to aspects of your life become a complete nuisance as if becomes an obstacle to people recognizing the actual person you are as they make too many assumptions about you based on a factor which is personally meaningless.

Not to say this is key to all agender folk. Some folk just react poorly to having any sexual characteristics at all. Non-binary as it’s own spectrum is internally made up of such disparate presentations it is like comparing peaches to green peppers. Both are fruit but they practically nothing alike in experience.

The thing is in both cases it’s hard for cis folk to really empathize with the trans experience because they either can’t get a handle on what it is to care about gender at all or they take their comfort as a given and don’t realize just how bad it is to live without that source of confidence.

violetraven ,
@violetraven@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar
saltesc ,

deleted_by_author

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  • Zagorath ,
    @Zagorath@aussie.zone avatar

    Hey mate, I think you meant this as a lighthearted joke, but I’m really not sure it comes across very well in text. Can I suggest you reconsider it, as it might seem kinda insensitive?

    saltesc ,

    It’s just an idiotic persona the article is about—just one, at least. I mean, I had a chuckle while making a point that people are fully aware these people bandwagoning just for a fight and personal gratification do damage. But, okay.

    GONADS125 , (edited ) in Marijuana Use Linked With Significant Heart and Brain Issues

    Important to note that the population of the study all had a history of cardiovascular health issues, and were not representative of the rest of the population.

    Also important to note is the failure to assess a distinction between combustion and non-combustion consumption.

    Combusting marijuana results in particulates, carcinogens [1], lack of oxygen, and off-gasses benzene. [2] These are very important factors to control for, and this distinction was not addressed at all.

    Definitely in need of further studies on the topic. This is an interesting area to explore, but this study falls a little flat in addressing any causation.

    Cold_Brew_Enema , in 'Friends' Star Matthew Perry Dead at 54 After Apparent Drowning

    Can I just say I saw this on lemmy before anything. Nice job keeping up with the news!

    Jaysyn , in Jack Smith Asks Court To Jail Trump If He Keeps Yapping About Witnesses
    @Jaysyn@kbin.social avatar

    I know all of us non-fascists want Trump in prison yesterday, but I can appreciate how methodical they are being about this.

    No mistakes or emotions means no mistrials & few excuses for appeals.

    SnotFlickerman ,
    @SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    I mean, I get it, but like… so the other side (Trump & co.) is able to make mistakes and be absurdly emotional over petty fucking bullshit, and it’s just sort of accepted and okay for them?

    I’m so sick of everything being tilted towards we can never appeal the people who are obviously acting in bad faith and everyone who is operating in good faith has to endlessly cross every T and dot every I while the other side essentially plays the pigeon and knocks all over the chess pieces while shitting all over the table and strutting around like they won.

    Like, I get that some people have legitimate grievances for appeals, but I’m so sick of a justice system that hands people with money an effective endless route to act in bad faith to drag out cases and get away with it. Why is there no legal recourse to deny such things to people who are painfully obviously operating in bad faith? Why do we have to keep letting them get away with it to make the case “iron clad.” I don’t fucking get it, it seems like the whole system is set up for people like Trump to actively exploit it.

    Why the fuck isn’t there more demand for reform of our criminal justice system? Not just the painfully obvious two-tiered justice system that favors the rich and politically connected, but just this basic idea, that the rich can’t just endlessly look for fucking loopholes to try to drain the other side of money to fight the case. Too much of our system really comes down to who has the most “Fuck You Money” to spend on lawyers for the longest, and I’m sick of acting like that’s fucking okay somehow. It isn’t, period.

    This kind of behavior should be grounds for denying future appeals, not handing them out like fucking candy, for fucks sake. He lead a fucking coup, and if our government can’t grow a pair of balls and start treating this accordingly, he’ll end up pardoning himself and then being an insane autocrat who gives out capital punishment to his enemies.

    Nougat ,

    Good plays by rules. Evil does not.

    TropicalDingdong ,

    Good plays by rules. Evil does not.

    In some weird, derivative Abrahamic/ Marvel fantasy maybe.

    Nougat ,

    I'll be more clear then:

    There are certain actions which "goodness" disallows. There are no actions which "evilness" disallows. This will always give the edge to evil, unless the number who support good are overwhelmingly larger. Just a majority will not do.

    SnotFlickerman ,
    @SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    And I am reminded, on this holy day, of the sad story of Kitty Genovese. As you all may remember, a long time ago, almost thirty years ago, this poor soul cried out for help time and time again, but no person answered her calls. Though many saw, no one so much as called the police. They all just watched as Kitty was being stabbed to death in broad daylight. They watched as her assailant walked away. Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men.

    It can easily be argued that the constant kid-gloves approach with Trump and other rich and politically-connected defendants falls under “the indifference of good men.”

    They understand the laws have been twisted to favor people like Trump, but they keep acting within the confines of the “law” like that makes them “good.” No, at best it makes them “lawful neutral” if we’re talking D&D alignment.

    Nougat ,

    That whole thing about Kitty Genovese - it was sloppy reporting by NYTimes.

    CarbonIceDragon ,
    @CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social avatar

    To be fair, that Kitty Genovese story quoted there isn’t really accurate as to what actually happened, as there weren’t as many witnesses as popularly understood, they generally did not get a clear picture of what was happening, and several did call the police. Still, I suppose that’s just an example and not really the point at hand.

    null ,

    Though many saw, no one so much as called the police. They all just watched as Kitty was being stabbed to death in broad daylight. They watched as her assailant walked away.

    Sorry, why is that being used as a benchmark for “good men”?

    Tyfud ,

    Those witnesses presumably weren’t stabbing other people on the side.

    null ,

    So as long as you don’t stab people, you’re a good person? Dang, I’m a saint!

    SnotFlickerman ,
    @SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.

    If “good” thinks these rules that favor those with the most money, who spent a lot of money on senators and house representatives to make sure those rules favored them, that those rules should be followed with strict intensity, then yeah, good is pretty fucking dumb.

    Society: You keep playing by these rules that favor the wealthy. We even have proof the wealthy paid for bills to be passed for the rules to be more favorable to them!

    Government: Look, if we don’t follow these rules we’ve set up for ourselves where we’re always outspent by the oligarchs who actually fund us, we stop getting payche---- err, I mean, it all falls apart.

    Illuminostro ,

    “So you see, that is why Evil will always triumph: because Good is dumb.”

    toiletobserver ,
    ArbitraryValue ,

    The asymmetry you’re talking about is the presumption of innocence, and I would prefer not to “reform” that. Trump isn’t guilty of leading a coup until he’s convicted of leading a coup with every t crossed and every i dotted.

    constantokra ,

    No, but he’s guilty of acting like a total ass in court, which would get literally anyone else thrown in jail. I don’t want to see him get his consequences without due process, but it’s disgusting that people like him get different treatment.

    Spacemanspliff ,

    I don’t fucking get it, it seems like the whole system is set up for people like Trump to actively exploit it.

    Of course the system is set up for the people with money and power to exploit it, who do you think set up the system? It’s always been heavily slanted to provide protection to those who can afford it.

    Makeitstop ,

    Trump acting in bad faith, saying whatever he wants, and strutting around like he’s above the law are all things that severely undermine his legal defense. He lost the rape civil suit because he so thoroughly demonstrated his shitty character. Incredibly damning evidence is admissible because he’s lost attorney client privilege thanks to Trump and his attorneys engaging criminal and fraudulent activity together. He’s constantly feeding new evidence to the prosecution by making public statements that contradict his previous statements, are incompatible with his defense, or even just admit to facts which support the prosecution’s case.

    The prosecution needs an ironclad case because this has to stick. We can’t afford to leave room for appeals, or for a friendly judge to to find an excuse to get him off the hook. We need a case so overwhelming that even a rabid MAGA supporter in the jury will be unable to stomach a not guilty verdict. It sucks, but there’s no getting around it.

    Rivalarrival ,

    I mean, I get it, but like… so the other side (Trump & co.) is able to make mistakes and be absurdly emotional over petty fucking bullshit, and it’s just sort of accepted and okay for them?

    Yes.

    Defendants of any sort should be afforded every latitude. Criminal convictions are supposed to be reserved only for those whose guilt is proven beyond the shadow of doubt. Anyone accused of a crime should be free to present any defense they want, while the state should be handcuffed to the constitution and hobbled by the law.

    I’m convinced that Trump belongs in prison, but it’s up to the state to prove it.

    Jaysyn ,
    @Jaysyn@kbin.social avatar

    Well said.

    BeautifulMind ,
    @BeautifulMind@lemmy.world avatar

    I’m convinced that Trump belongs in prison, but it’s up to the state to prove it.

    Given the long record of witness tampering and intimidation and such that’s well-documented and has been for years, my feel is it’s ABOUT FUCKING TIME the state decided to take up the question.

    I mean, yes- burden of proof and all, but when the defendant has been bragging he did all of these things in public and on media and in speeches to crowds, it was time to do all of this a long time ago

    echodot ,

    That’s how the law is supposed to operate, it’s actually refreshing to see it done that way, even if it does mean Trump gets 200 second chances.

    Anyway it doesn’t matter because we all know that if you give Trump 200 second chances he will do it again for the 201st time. The man is pathological.

    JJROKCZ , in 18 people dead and suspect at large after shootings in area of Lewiston, Maine, authorities say

    They won’t address the mental health problems of this nation because it isn’t profitable to do so.

    They won’t address the gun problem of this nation because of something a slaver jotted down 200+ years ago. And guns are profitable.

    They won’t address mass shootings because then you wouldn’t be living in fear of them and would have time realize how they have ruined everything in the name of profits.

    America is doomed for as long as we care about profit more than people

    Diplomjodler ,

    They won’t address the mental health problems because it’s all part of a strategy to keep people scared.

    RaincoatsGeorge ,

    Also for hospital systems it’s wildly unprofitable. You make your money in two places in medicine, elective surgeries and in the emergency department. Mental healthcare is slow, in the extreme cases you’re dealing with unpleasant patients that are hostile to the care you’re trying to provide, and you often have to house them and feed them for extended periods of time knowing they don’t have any money to reimburse you.

    That’s why the hospital I’m working at has built a multimillion dollar cardiac surgery tower (not a unit, not a few floors, an entire tower), but scrapped the plans to rebuild the aging and woefully inadequate inpatient psych facility.

    If we can’t squeeze every cent from you we will only do the bare minimum that the CMC requires from us.

    Diplomjodler ,

    Making healthcare a for profit endeavour is not in the best interests of society as a whole.

    aniki ,

    deleted_by_author

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  • Kecessa ,

    Capitalism should exist for non essentials only. I don’t care that candy factories and stores aren’t controlled by the government/its workers, but I sure as hell care that my government is trying to introduce more and more private care facilities in our healthcare system!

    aniki ,

    deleted_by_author

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  • Kecessa , (edited )

    Because one is realistic (a system where essential needs are all nationalised but non essentials aren’t, giving a place for greedy people who feel that need to make profit through their work) and the other isn’t (expecting greed to disappear).

    aniki ,

    deleted_by_author

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  • Kecessa , (edited )

    No, I’m realistic, some people will always be greedy, better give them a way to satisfy themselves than have them corrupting a system that tries to eliminate them or to have them work in the black market.

    It’s the same as drugs, you have better control over hard drugs users by making drugs legal, providing it and taking charge of them than you do by making it illegal and seeing them shoot themselves in an abandoned building with whatever junk they can find.

    RaincoatsGeorge ,

    I agree with you. There’s lots of keyboard warriors with big opinions that have yet to put those opinions to the test in the real world. No, not the suburban tgi Friday’s sedan driving real world, but the gritty disgusting world of poverty and inequality. Most of us have zero concept of what that is even when we think that we do.

    We can sit around jerking each other off with wonderful ideas like total government oversight to prevent corporate overreach in all industries but that ignores the fundamental reality of the world we live in. We have to work with what we’ve got to make it work for us the best that it can. It won’t be perfect, people will always be taken advantage of and others will stop at nothing to hoard wealth and retain power, but we can usually move the needle slightly in our lifetime and raise our kids to work hard to move it a little bit more.

    We won’t see a world with some communist utopia anytime soon, capitalism isn’t going anywhere. But we can achieve victories with things like universal healthcare, universal basic income, improved access to mental health care and healthcare as a whole, and see the gun lobby reigned in so that we can finally pass common sense gun laws that will start to slowly address this madness.

    Goals need to be reasonable and attainable. Otherwise you’re likely to never get off the ground.

    Kecessa ,

    That and people would still be free to create a worker owned candy factory if they wanted, they would just compete with the private candy factory, which is totally fair considering that the government has no reason to create a candy factory in the first place.

    PRUSSIA_x86 ,

    Holy based

    Kecessa ,

    Oh and I didn’t quit anything because that’s been my opinion forever, I just never believed in complete nationalisation/seizure of the means of production.

    signs23 ,

    You could adress it, but it wont save the problem. Look at europe, we ban guns, we dont shoot people every day. We still have mental health problems.

    Nudding ,

    America is doomed for as long as we care about profit more than people

    Sorry to break this to you but that’s the literal back bone of your country lol. Slaves much? You still have slavery to this day!

    FReddit ,

    Not actual slavery – you can always quit your job and starve to death under a freeway overpass.

    But I think a lot of corporate America would love actual slavery. Look at the way Amazon treats warehouse workers.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    I believe they mean the incarcerated. They can be used legally as slaves.

    Nudding ,

    No, slavery is baked into your constitution, and allows the use of slave labor. To this day. Literally. The 13th amendment. Actual slavery.

    be_excellent_to_each_other ,
    @be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social avatar

    I would like to point out that Reagan dismantled funding for our mental health system and was responsible for the closing of many mental health treatment centers, and Republicans have (to my knowledge) voted against every effort to resurrect it.

    They won't support restrictions on gun ownership because they say the problem is mental health, but they won't support spending on mental health either. (Most likely because they seem to oppose anything that would actually help people who suffer.)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_Health_Systems_Act_of_1980

    https://sociology.org/content/vol003.004/thomas.html

    This last one is a ddg search - you can just pick which article you want to read about Republicans voting against mental health funding.

    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=republicans+vote+against+mental+health+funding

    Zink ,

    The Republican party really is a hollow shell occupied only by those willing to distract and harm the people rather than help them.

    That’s the politicians and donors at least. They also have a lot of useful idiots.

    BigMacHole , in Florida Residents Flee State as Insurance Premiums Skyrocket up to 900%

    It’s a good thing their Republican Leaders are working hard to help them with this issue.

    sirboozebum ,

    Obviously woke insurance companies are to blame!

    cedarmesa , (edited )
    @cedarmesa@lemmy.world avatar

    💀

    PsychedSy ,

    The weather doesn’t listen to legislators.

    greenfish ,
    @greenfish@lemmy.world avatar

    Won’t stop them from trying! The general assembly in NC literally outlawed taking ocean rise into account for determining insurance rates 🤣

    frezik ,

    Capitalists being evil but not stupid, I’d expect insurance companies to start refusing to do business in the state.

    afraid_of_zombies ,

    I know I read some story about an Emperor who tried to prove he could order the tides and drowned.

    Fredselfish , in State Department official resigns over Biden administration's handling of Israel-Hamas conflict | CNN Politics
    @Fredselfish@lemmy.world avatar

    Thank you this needed to be said and fuck Biden administration for taking sides and not only that he NOW going use OUR tax dollars to help Israel commit genocide. Fuck him hate his fucking guts. We should of had Sanders for president he would find the right thing to do.

    Bassman1805 ,

    FWIW, this isn’t a “now” problem, it’s been the US position for a long time. Still shitty though.

    girlfreddy OP ,
    @girlfreddy@lemmy.world avatar

    He said the quiet part out loud.

    It’s people like this that should be in positions of power.

    SeedyOne ,

    Plenty to dislike about Biden but this one existed LONG before him and is a lot more complex than “current admin bad”.

    Even this person leaving their position admits it’s been this way for decades and is wholly unsurprising, albeit incredibly disappointing.

    ubermeisters ,
    @ubermeisters@lemmy.world avatar

    Too bad that doesn’t matter because he had choices and he made the wrong ones still.

    stevedidWHAT ,
    @stevedidWHAT@lemmy.world avatar

    Yeah? Please explain your understanding of this situation and then follow up with what options he had.

    Please.

    girlfreddy OP ,
    @girlfreddy@lemmy.world avatar

    He had the option of forcing Israel to sit down at the table with Palestine and hammer out a deal for peace.

    I don’t personally like forcing anyone but the world is at a point now where, in this singular case, force is required.

    stevedidWHAT ,
    @stevedidWHAT@lemmy.world avatar

    I was talking to this commenter who apparently is White House level briefed on Bidens options he had.

    But if you’d like to also participate that’s cool too but that wasn’t my question.

    What were his all of his choices that he had since were feigning to know so much about all the choices he had as armchair forum political experts again.

    You claim that Biden could just make Israel come to a meeting somehow? Please explain how that would’ve been accomplished and explain why that would’ve worked with minimal or negligible side effects. If your proposal does contain noticeable side effects, make sure to bring those up as well

    naught ,

    Don’t you see it’s so SIMPLE! Just have the king of Hamas sit down with the Emperor of Israel and have some scotch and cigars and hammer out a quick deal for peace!

    Illuminostro ,

    Grandpappy 'Murica would just grab those rascals by the ears and make them share! Simple!

    jaybone ,

    Didn’t Clinton do this in the 90s with Arafat and whatever Israeli PM? We’ve been trying this shit for decades.

    rivermonster ,

    Yes, at the meeting where an agreement was eminent and Arafat walked away bc he didn’t want peace. History that’s conveniently forgotten in a lot of these posts.

    GBU_28 ,

    When did he have that option? Neither side has any interest in speaking

    wildginger ,

    The US funds israels way of life. Any removal of that funding would shut israel up and remind them that the only reason they can afford genocide is because we are funding them.

    The US is in prime position to force israel to consider peace talks. We just dont have politicians with the moral standing to do so.

    GBU_28 ,

    That’s only part of the situation.

    Removing the funding comes with consequences. By the way the world is, we have evidence those consequences outweigh change.

    lolcatnip ,

    Are you familiar with a little thing called Congress?

    rivermonster ,

    Bullshit. The only time both sides were forced to sit at the table and got ANYWHERE close to an agreement was when Arafat walked away bc he didn’t really want peace or an agreement. His power and money came from the ongoing conflict.

    Obligatory disclaimer: I support neither side, I condemn all war crimes and terrorists, I am cheering for nobody in this horrific clusterfuck.

    unwellsnail ,

    Not the commenter you asked, but my understanding of this situation is that in response to a Hamas attack on the 7th Israel has, for the past week and a half, been bombing a captive population that is currently without electricity, water, food and medical supplies, and our government is supporting that.

    What Biden could do, now, is say “Hey, we understand your fear and pain, but Palestinian deaths won’t brings back those Israeli lives. Mass killing of civilians in the hopes of killing some of the people responsible won’t bring peace, trust me we’ve tried too.” From there he can engage in discussions about next steps, but this is the minimum fucking first step he refuses to take.

    conquer4 ,

    Wish the American people and bush would have said that Sep 12th. But if you knew anything about countries and their responses to external terror attacks, you’d know why that first step is impossible.

    OniiFam , (edited )
    @OniiFam@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    There is no world where anything but the eradication of Hamas would satisfy Israelies. Hamas which is the acting governing body in Gaza and has vowed to anahilate every single isaerli and has definitely actively acted towards that goal for decades. Hamas who still had hostages and still refuses to release them while they keep slaughtering them. Hamas who keeps lying about literally every single objective and would sooner kill their own to blame it on Israel than work towards peace. Peace isn’t an option here. Thinking Biden would or could demand Israel not to retaliate sounds like it is coming from someone who has never suffered. As long as Hamas exist there will never be peace.

    blazeknave ,

    And seeing as Hamas’ charter is the eradication of Jews everywhere on earth, Israel should have this perspective.

    Ryumast3r ,

    Biden did tell Israel not to make the same mistake the US did after 9/11. He also has been pressuring them to reinstate access to things like water, food, shelter, and telling Israel not to kill civilians.

    whitehouse.gov/…/remarks-by-president-biden-on-th…

    Dark_Arc ,
    @Dark_Arc@social.packetloss.gg avatar

    I’m not sure what you would’ve expected Biden to do here. Break years of US foreign policy work to side with attackers?

    Honestly the whole Israel and US thing feels like Israel is the angry friend that’s little brother just got bullied at school and the US is trying to be supportive while talking them down.

    President Biden headed home on Wednesday after a wartime trip to Israel, where he forcefully vowed that the United States would stand fast with Israel in its war against Hamas and unveiled a newly brokered deal to allow humanitarian aid into Gaza from Egypt.

    In a speech, Mr. Biden talked emotionally about the “all-consuming rage” Israelis must feel after seeing 1,400 people slaughtered by Hamas terrorists in cross-border raids on Oct. 7. But then he cautioned Israelis not to be so consumed by rage that they make mistakes. “After 9/11, we were enraged in the United States,” he said. “While we sought justice and got justice, we also made mistakes.”

    Sounds and awful lot like “I’ll help you kick the ass of the fools that hit your brother, but don’t make the mistake I did, you don’t need to kick everybody’s ass.”

    www.nytimes.com/…/heres-the-latest-on-the-war?smi…

    DoctorTYVM ,

    I’m also not sure how anyone expects Israel to accept the losses and move on. If the US or any other country had been attacked like this they’d already have boots on the ground.

    Aluminaughty ,

    Try being more reactionary, that should help.

    Strawberry ,
    avater , in California workers will get five sick days instead of three under law signed by Gov. Newsom
    @avater@lemmy.world avatar

    laughs in german 🤣

    speaker_hat ,

    Infinite sick days

    dumdum666 ,

    Not true - you do not get infinite sick days

    You get your regular salary for up to 6 weeks, after that there is a steep drop in pay - since you receive „sick pay“ then. After 72 weeks sick pay ends. Then you might be eligible for social security.

    teegus ,

    A year in Norway. 26 weeks after the last sick leave, the quota starts again.

    FooBarrington ,

    “Steep drop” means 80% of your normal pay.

    PhlubbaDubba ,

    I mean depending on what that’s 80% of it could be the difference between affordability and lack thereof

    jscummy ,

    Cries in American

    electrogamerman ,

    Thats the ugliest of cries

    dumdum666 ,

    No - not that easy. it is 70% of your pre tax income with a maximum of 90% your net income. How deep the cut actually is depends on several factors. One factor: There is a maximum amount you can receive - no matter how high your income was. If you earn well and cross that threshold, you will receive way less than the official percentages. To compensate for that you have to get a private insurance.

    speaker_hat ,

    Thanks, compared to 5 days, 6 weeks subjectively feels infinite (for an average healthy employee)

    MeanEYE ,
    @MeanEYE@lemmy.world avatar

    It’s important to point out, this is not people deciding not to come to work for 6 weeks and all is good, government picks up the tab. You actually have to be sick, that is to say doctor opens this leave, confirms there’s a need for one, etc.

    dumdum666 ,

    The Employer pays the first 6 weeks, not the government.

    Black616Angel ,

    That is also not completely correct.

    You can get infinite sick days. It just has to be a different illness every 6 weeks. (not repeating the same year)

    dumdum666 ,

    If you stay in the first 6 weeks threshold you are technically correct - but good luck finding an employer that will keep employing you. You will get sent to an doctor appointed by your employer and if you are „simulating“ you will get fired easily.

    Pat_Riot ,
    @Pat_Riot@lemmy.today avatar

    Cries in a different US state where our company busted us from 40 hours of sick time to 24 to make every plant in the country equal to California’s minimum because it’s the only state with one of our facilities that has a minimum. I’m curious to see if this ends up bringing all our plants up to 40 hours or they hope none of us lowly factory workers pays attention to this sort of thing. I’ll be asking at the next communication meeting.

    SeaJ ,

    You know it will be the latter, right?

    Pat_Riot ,
    @Pat_Riot@lemmy.today avatar

    Yeah, I know where I work.

    NuPNuA ,

    Laughs in English, but the real English not American English.

    YeetPics ,
    @YeetPics@mander.xyz avatar

    Thank you for not guffawing in french.

    the_post_of_tom_joad ,

    I fart in your general direction!

    YeetPics ,
    @YeetPics@mander.xyz avatar

    I spit on your fart!

    havokdj ,

    Your mother was a hamster

    HonoraryMancunian ,

    Hon hon hon

    BetaBlake ,

    English is descriptive not prescriptive, nobody owns the English language nor has a more correct version, and that’s coming from Oxford University.

    smellythief ,

    Sounds like you don’t laugh in any language.

    Cryophilia ,

    That’s actually what Germans sound like when they laugh

    Diasl ,

    Sick leave in the UK is still pretty shit unless your company covers it or you get a generous amount of paid sick days. SSP is a pittance and needs rethinking and employers attitudes towards illness needs sorting out (pay rises being related to illness being one thing).

    shalafi , in A livid Donald Trump rants against judge hearing his New York fraud case

    If I pulled this shit on a judge, my bond would be revoked immediately and the bailiff ordered to remand me to custody in a concrete and steel box to await the trial’s completion.

    Fuck me, I had a judge threaten to revoke bond because I had the temerity to inquire about a public defender. Last month a judge sentenced (deferred) my ex to 10-days for fucking me on spring break visitation. And she had the fucking sense to STFU for the whole trial! Trump acts like these judges are his personal peons talking back at him.

    And yes, I get it. The justice system has to be more than fair in these cases. You have to admit, it’s a wild historical precedent and we must step carefully when throwing a President of the US in jail (yes, I believe he still gets that title). And I’m OK with that! But we can’t get a solid gag order on this animal?!

    (Not sure he’s out of bail for this one. FFS, I literally can’t keep up with the charges, courts, etc.)

    Track_Shovel ,

    Last month a judge sentenced (deferred) my ex to 10-days for fucking me on spring break visitation

    Congratulations on the sex

    Sidewayshighways ,

    Later virgins

    elbarto777 ,

    Goodbye, sexless guys.

    shalafi ,

    Ugh. Not with a 10-foot frog. Not on a dare. Not even for green eggs and ham.

    bradorsomething ,

    Okay, but just hear me out… I’m just throwing this out there…

    Would you could you in a boat?

    FarceMultiplier ,
    @FarceMultiplier@lemmy.ca avatar

    Would you could you down her throat?

    samus12345 ,
    @samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

    It’s disturbing that every single line could be talking about having sex instead of eating green eggs and ham. With a mouse? With a fox? With a goat?

    three ,

    the more likely reason they threatened to revoke bond is your insufferable attempts at shoving the thesaurus into every sentence.

    shalafi ,

    Which word was too big for you? That was written to a 6th grade reading level and it struck you as pretentious? (sorry, big word again.)

    three ,

    6th grade

    explain in a more global context

    Trebach ,

    6th grade in the US is for kids that are generally 11-12 years old.

    GBU_28 ,

    Why? It is clear but the story he’s talking about the US legal system.

    Critical reading, and vocab issues. Damn dude you r bad at bookz

    CarbonatedPastaSauce ,

    vocab issues

    you r bad at bookz

    Ironyception. Can we go deeper?

    GBU_28 ,

    I wanted to make sure he understood that line.

    orbitz ,

    Okay I’ll bite, which words in his reply do you think needed a thesaurus?

    WoahWoah ,

    Needed a what? You mean a wordy-likey-bookie-wookie, college boy??

    GBU_28 ,

    Uh, that seemed like a pretty normal vocabulary, and wasn’t overly flowery.

    Maybe you need to brush up.

    Daft_ish ,

    I wish a judge would just throw the book at him for something minor. Sure it might create some controversy and he will weasel out but the court has every right too and if the only thing stopping them is the presidency… fuck it.

    Syndic ,

    But we can’t get a solid gag order on this animal?!

    How? Trump doesn’t listen to reason and he has been getting away his whole life with stuff less rich and powerful people would have been thrown into jail a long time ago. That’s the only thing he has ever learned. And as long as he keeps getting away with it he will keep doing so.

    If we want him to keep his mouth shut and stop interfering into the justice process, he would need to be locked up with no access to any internet.

    Archer ,

    He literally doesn’t have the self control to comply with a gag order and also he can fundraise off it saying his freedom of speech is being violated

    MicroWave OP , in Dallas mayor switches parties to join GOP
    @MicroWave@lemmy.world avatar

    The Texas Democratic Party issued a scathing statement Friday, accusing Johnson of being dishonest with Dallas voters.

    “[T]he voters of Dallas deserved to know where he stood before he ran for reelection as Mayor,” the chair and vice-chair of the party said. “He wasn’t honest with his constituents, and knew he would lose to a Democrat if he flipped before the election.”

    ChillPenguin ,

    Wow, that’s complete shit.

    bobman ,

    Real question is: why didn’t the democrat he would lose to win?

    Why are we voting for scumbags over non-scumbags?

    Dark_Arc ,
    @Dark_Arc@social.packetloss.gg avatar

    Presumably, he wasn’t challenged in the primaries or name recognition carried him.

    Syldon , in Arkansas Gov. Sarah Huckabee Sanders signs law restricting release of her travel, security records
    @Syldon@feddit.uk avatar

    I can understand restrictions on upcoming events, but there is nothing wrong with releasing them after they have been used. It is not like someone is going to go back in time to commit an offence.

    azn03 ,

    Hah! She’s a step ahead of you. She’s thinking of when there’s a time machine! (/s if that wasn’t clear)

    matchphoenix ,

    Seems like she doesn’t want the press that DeSantis keeps getting for flying on rich donors’ planes. This is basically a sign on her office saying, “open for corruption”.

    Syldon ,
    @Syldon@feddit.uk avatar

    A honest politician is usually the more open one. You would think that getting threats would be an indicator she is doing something upsets people, and she wants to double down on the crazy.

    Unaware7013 ,

    Bold of you to assume that she (a Republican) isn't intentionally trying to upset people.

    Syldon ,
    @Syldon@feddit.uk avatar

    Are you suggesting that politicians create issues to hide other more heinous issues? That would just be dead catting.

    ChickenLadyLovesLife ,

    It is not like someone is going to go back in time to commit an offence.

    They might if somebody else has already gone back and killed baby Hitler.

    MagicShel ,

    Well, they haven’t gonna yet, but some day they may yet did.

    SheeEttin ,

    If they had, you wouldn’t know his name to say that.

    Blackbeard , in A football coach who got job back after Supreme Court ruled he could pray on the field has resigned
    @Blackbeard@lemmy.world avatar

    It was never about his job. It was always about putting Christianity back on a pedestal and the rest of us back in the shadows.

    Fuck him.

    Son_of_dad ,

    Openly pray to Satan in school, since it’s perfectly legal

    Killing_Spark ,

    No sir I am allowed to slaughter that goat in the middle of the classroom. It’s my noon-prayer ritual

    ZeroCool OP , in Ex-Proud Boys leader sentenced to 22 years for role in US Capitol attack

    It’s good that he’s going away for 22 years. However, the sentencing guidelines called for between 324 to 405 months (27-33 years) so by the Judge’s own calculations this is a miscarriage of justice and yet another right wing domestic terrorist is being handled with kid gloves. Fucking disgraceful.

    charonn0 ,
    @charonn0@startrek.website avatar

    Sentences can include upward and downward departures from the guidelines based on the circumstances of the case. It’s also important to remember that the guidelines are non-binding on judges.

    ZeroCool OP ,

    deleted_by_author

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  • charonn0 ,
    @charonn0@startrek.website avatar

    I was responding more to the “judge’s own calculations” part.

    PR3CiSiON ,

    So it’s like the guidelines are just guidelines?

    GBU_28 ,

    He was an informant right? Distasteful as it is, informing has to be publicly seen as providing a tangible benefit, or future criminals wont talk

    merc ,

    2 decades is 2 decades. And, it’s not like when he gets released he’ll be hailed as a hero. Trump will be dead, most of his supporters will probably be dead of old age or COVID. The rest will be too embarrassed that they voted for him to admit it.

    When he gets out he’ll be 60. Having spent decades in prison, he won’t be able to retire, and will probably live out the rest of his life working menial jobs that hire ex-felons until he dies in obscurity.

    SheeEttin , in Sen. Mitch McConnell appears to freeze again at a Kentucky event

    If that behavior is typical, he belongs in a home, certainly not Congress.

    correcthorsedickbatterystaple ,

    unfortunately that behavior is more and more typical... in congress

    Pipoca ,

    That really depends on what his particular diagnosis is - are these mini strokes, seizures, or something else?

    If he’s having seizures, that doesn’t mean he needs to be in a home.

    Ghostalmedia , in Ohio teen dubbed 'hell on wheels' after killing her boyfriend and his friend in a crash is sentenced to 15 years to life
    @Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world avatar

    During the investigation, she asked if they could just suspend her license for 10 years

    “I just killed two people with a car, so I think being forced to use Uber for a decade is an appropriate sentence.”

    Diprount_Tomato ,
    @Diprount_Tomato@lemmy.world avatar

    Uber? Omg that’s horrendous!

    Ghostalmedia ,
    @Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world avatar

    Better than a nasty ass public e scooter.

    Overzeetop ,
    @Overzeetop@kbin.social avatar

    It's a shame she's not a male athlete with a promising swimming career. Might have gotten off with having to take a remedial driving course and paid a small fine.

    Kitten_Mittens ,
    @Kitten_Mittens@lemmy.world avatar

    Oh! You’re talking about the sexual predator/rapist Brock Turner, who now goes by the name Allen Turner.

    ShaggySnacks ,

    You do mean Brock Allen Turner who was indicted five charges: two for rape, two for felony sexual assault, and one for attempted rape? This all happened on January 18, 2015.

    reverendsteveii ,

    That’d be the same convicted rapist Brock Allen Turner that was last seen near Dayton OH, right?

    Comment105 ,

    It’s good to see on lemmy that people are we continuing the tradition of reminding readers of rapist Brock Turner aka. Allen Turner, the creep who got off ridiculously easy in a uniquely egregious violation of justice.

    He shall not find the peace the judge wanted to grant him.

    reverendsteveii ,

    May he find piss.

    In his food.

    PagingDoctorLove ,

    Yes, and apparently just bought a house right by the university and a major bike path, and has been seen out at bars in the area. What a fucking predator.

    Sigh_Bafanada ,

    This is one Reddit trend that Lemmy should absolutely continue

    pulaskiwasright , (edited )

    Honestly, if she hadn’t threaded to kill her boyfriend with her car before this happened, then I think suspending her license for a decade or two or may be life would be the right solution. Prison shouldn’t be a punishment, but a way to keep everyone else safe from dangerous people. If she won’t drive, then she isn’t a danger. But it sounds like she’s dangerous no matter what.

    Puzzle_Sluts_4Ever ,

    Prison should not be an oubliette to put people we don’t like. It should be about rehabilitation and bettering those who have commit crimes.

    derpo ,

    Agreed. I wish the USA had this point of view, but instead we do view it as an oubliette to put people we dont like / are too poor

    assassin_aragorn ,

    Yes, but mercy and rehabilitation should not come at the expense of the innocent.

    Plus, when I think rehabilitating people in jail, I’m thinking of nonviolent offenses. Premeditated murder isn’t on my list of crimes I think someone can come back from, not when it’s like this.

    Puzzle_Sluts_4Ever ,

    Someone in prison getting the help and rehabilitation they need are not a threat to “the innocent”

    Look, if all you want is blood, just say it (you more or less already did). And then think about what that means about you

    assassin_aragorn ,

    Someone in prison getting the help and rehabilitation they need are not a threat to “the innocent”

    Well yes, that’s my point. They’re in prison. They should have access to rehabilitation and high quality psychiatric care.

    themajesticdodo ,

    I’m personally pretty happy with letting cunts like this swiiiiiiiiiiiiiiing.

    Elderos ,

    Prison helps keep people safe, create deterrent, prevents vigilantism. Rehabilitation is the humane thing to do, but it is not why we isolate criminals.

    Wollang ,

    The trial featured surveillance video played in court showing the moment Shirilla accelerated towards the building without stopping, until a gut-wrenching crash is heard.

    Anyone capable of doing this deserves prison time.

    pulaskiwasright ,

    Agreed. We know she did it on purpose and is a dangerous person in general, not just a careless or even reckless driver. She needs to be in prison to keep us safe. Shes different than someone who is merely a bad driver, or even a reckless driver who just needs to be kept out of a car to keep everyone around them safe.

    assassin_aragorn ,

    Yeah this is exactly why there’s the option to try a minor as an adult.

    Tedesche ,

    Prison shouldn’t be a punishment

    Yes, it absolutely should be. I can’t stand people who think the criminal justice system shouldn’t dole out punishments, but should only aim to rehabilitate people. You folks have absolutely no empathy for victims. Punishments are important, because criminals cause suffering to other people. The entire concept of justice is based on the idea that criminals should suffer at least a modicum of the harm they do to others as payment for their crimes. Over the centuries, we have done away with the “eye for an eye” model of punishment and decided that the worst sentences we can hand down are execution and life in prison, and most people today aren’t actually in favor of execution. Spending your life in prison is a slap on the wrist compared to being murdered.

    I’m sure this girl could be rehabilitated within a few years. Under your model, she’d walk free while the parents and siblings of her victims were still trying to recover mentally from what she did to their families. Your lack of empathy for them is repugnant. You should feel ashamed.

    Squirrelanna ,
    @Squirrelanna@lemmynsfw.com avatar

    Yeah! Instead the victims should be forced to pay for the perpetrator to live with free meals and housing for decades rather than attempting to treat the core of the issue if at all possible and turning these people ideally into healthy contributors to society as fast as humanely possible! That definitely helps the victims!

    TheProtagonist ,

    Seems like you are blending the concepts of punishment and that of revenge. While a criminal, who’s crime has been proved in court should absolutely be punished for the crimes he/she committed according to the corresponding law, the sentences should not be led or even influenced by the feeling of “taking revenge for the victims”, because that’s not what a punishment should be about.

    I guess this is one of the main differences between judicial systems and their underlying philosophies in the US and in Europe. While in the US the state can kill / execute some person, because this person has killed another person, that would be unthinkable in Europe, because the state does not have such a “right” and killing / executing a murderer would also be a crime against that person’s life.

    European systems are more driven by the idea of “resocialising” criminals, so that they could eventually become acceptable members of society again some day.

    themajesticdodo ,

    Dude. She murdered two men. That’s a dangerous individual.

    dragonflyteaparty ,

    No one said she wasn’t. But there is a difference between punishment and revenge.

    Honytawk ,

    You think she will be the same person in 15 years?

    DarthBueller ,

    The US’s sense of justice is very much informed by the widespread belief in a deity that requires people to conflate cruelty and love.

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