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lemmy.world

hellothere , (edited ) to mildlyinfuriating in I have unlimited cellular data on my phone but not if I use it as a hotspot.

How do they know if the source of data is hotspot? I’d imagine there is a way to stop your phone grassing on you.

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

You have to turn that feature on.

hellothere , (edited )

Could you install a different OS like suggested here dubvee.org/comment/1855949 / by Admiral Patrick below?

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Maybe, but it’s not worth it just for a few days, which is all I’ll need it for. I just forked over $15 for another 10 gb.

warm ,

$15 for 10GB?! USA phone bills are extortionate!

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah, it really sucks, but at least there aren’t roaming charges anymore.

TWeaK ,

Lol when I travel to the US I get 12GB roaming per month included for no extra charge.

Socsa ,

I just have unlimited data in 200 countries on Fi in the US.

shortwavesurfer ,

You think our phone bills are extortionate? Try Canada. They’re worse. Which is really saying something.

TWeaK ,

It’s worth it for more than a few days, custom ROMs ftw.

Personally my minimum features are:

  • Long press back button to force close and kill an app.
  • Call recording.

All the other stuff and customisation is just tasty gravy.

bigMouthCommie ,
@bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

negotiate. i called my last carrier from my new carriers retail store front. they practically begged me to stay and said they'd give me everything i asked for.

ptz , (edited )
@ptz@dubvee.org avatar

Yeah, installing a new OS on a phone isn’t something you do easily like on a PC.

You have to unlock the bootloader, which requires an unlock code from the manufacturer, then you have to factory reset it, and that’s even if your phone/carrier allows it. Many don’t (which is why it’s so hard for me to replace my phone…grrr).

So yeah, installing a new OS on your phone is typically going to require quite a bit of effort and some level of commitment as well as a device that’s bootloader unlockable and supported by an alternate OS (each device and model requires a custom build).

It’s…a whole thing. It really shouldn’t be, but it is :(

FartsWithAnAccent ,
@FartsWithAnAccent@fedia.io avatar

I haven't done it in a while, but it kinda depends on the phone, some were very easy to flash in the earlier days of Android.

ptz ,
@ptz@dubvee.org avatar

Yeah, my old Moto Play G4 was a breeze. Wasn’t quite “Press any key to continue” but not much more difficult.

My OnePlus was a little more work, but that was mostly because of the OP website acting up and refusing to generate my bootloader unlock key. Also had to do things differently since it didn’t have an SD card to hold my install stuff like the Moto Play did.

FartsWithAnAccent ,
@FartsWithAnAccent@fedia.io avatar

I had one where you could literally run an app on the phone, no ADB or anything. Can't remember what phone it was now but it might've actually been a Moto Droid

ptz , (edited )
@ptz@dubvee.org avatar

One one hand, that sounds extremely convenient. On the other, I shudder thinking what a malicious app could do with that 😆

Edit: Unless you’re talking about doing it through TWRP. I had to flash that over fastboot, but once installed to the recovery partition, I could boot into that and install the rest of Lineage and extra packages straight from the SD card. Updating the system was just downloading the new Lineage .zip to the SD card, booting into TWRP, and clicking install.

FartsWithAnAccent ,
@FartsWithAnAccent@fedia.io avatar

Exploits go BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRT!

No, but I did use TWRP on my Droid 3 I think, and as I recall it was pretty nice.

TWeaK ,

and that’s even if your phone/carrier allows it.

This is why you should buy the phone outright yourself then get a SIM only deal, rather than paying for your phone in contract.

ptz ,
@ptz@dubvee.org avatar

Yeah I do, but SIM unlocked and bootloader unlockable are two different things. Sadly, not every phone (or even the same phones made for different carriers) are allowed to be bootloader unlocked; I have no idea why, but it is and sucks.

TWeaK ,

Yeah it’s definitely true, even with the same manufacturer it can be hit and miss. You gotta do your research before you buy.

ptz , (edited )
@ptz@dubvee.org avatar

There’s different internal network configs (APNs), and hotspot uses a different one than regular mobile data. ( or at least it used to). Those can be configured and metered separately from the carrier’s end.

LineageOS, and maybe some other custom ROMs, wouldn’t do that and would put the hotspot and mobile data on the same APN to get around that.

wesker ,
@wesker@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Can confirm, switching to Graphene solved this problem for me a long while ago.

Chronographs ,

Doesn’t unlocking the bootloader break Google Pay?

silent_squirrel ,

You can lock the bootloader again after the flashing process is done(because it will add the signing key of the new OS), but unfortunately the NFC Payments in Google Pay still won’t work because Google only allows it on ‘certified’ Android systems (aka only the preinstalled OS)

squid_slime ,
@squid_slime@lemmy.world avatar

Isn’t this dependent on the ROM, like lineage shouldn’t be locked where as calyx is locked likewise for graphine os

silent_squirrel ,

Yes, afaik LineageOS shouldn’t be locked, but I was talking about GrapheneOS specifically because @wesker was talking about that.

wesker ,
@wesker@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Don’t know, wouldn’t touch that with a 10 foot pole.

hopesfall ,

What’s wrong with Google Pay?

person ,

the Google part

ReallyActuallyFrankenstein ,

You can in theory still use Google Pay with a Magisk module called Play Integrity Fix and using a fingerprint from a different phone to pass Basic and Device integrity. I’m currently doing it on my Pixel 7 Pro.

But it has a steep learning curve and is a temporary solution that will disappear in roughly a year once Google sunsets legacy integrity methods and starts requiring Strong integrity, which can’t be faked under known methods. Google is also actively disabling fingerprints that are being spoofed, making the whole thing frustrating and even more temporary even when it works.

Just let us use our devices, sheesh.

CanadaPlus ,

Ugh. I was dumb and got a Samsung that was offered to me for cheap on the spot. If I had done any research I would have learned that there’s no alternative OS options. Now I’m stuck with it, because I’m poor, so I just try to avoid using it. I should keep an eye out for something used that’s compatible.

eco_game ,

While it’s not at the same level as Graphene OS, Samsung is pretty well supported by Lineage OS. AFAIK at least in Europe Samsung phones have an unlockable bootloader, but YMMV.

CanadaPlus , (edited )

Nah. Nobody’s figured out how to access the ROM on my specific model, unfortunately, and I’m 900% sure Canadian telecom oligopolists will not be cool about unlocking like that.

In my defense, if it was a laptop it would have been much less foolhardy.

Chainweasel ,

I’m still hoping for LineageOS on the Nord N30 but I can’t Even find a stock ROM to root it.

Socsa ,

Even on my unlocked, non vendor phone it seems to not recognize hotspot data as different for some reason.

Gullible ,

Back when they just began recognizing it, they noted peculiar traffic. Desktop websites, batch downloads normally unavailable to that system. This assumes that you utilized the internal hotspot system and didn’t create a separate one. Now? Not sure whether their system is more robust but it should, theoretically, be possible to obfuscate your traffic using third party hotspot software. No clue where to look for that anymore.

sparky1337 ,

I used to routinely use 100gb of data on my jailbroken sprint iPhone. Did that for almost 3 years. Never heard a peep from them. But this was forever ago.

Gullible ,

If you used the package I think you did, that’s not unusual. Absolutely will not remember the name but there were numerous tweaks that just flipped the hotspot switch but a couple that allowed you to use a hotspot without directly using the inbuilt function. One was free and broadly used.

brbposting ,

That was great, and you didn’t have to pay some extra tethering fee every month either (or something like that, it was so long ago for me).

sandalbucket ,

TTL in the packet header is 29 instead of 30

CanadaPlus ,

Well that’s an easy fix.

ColeSloth ,

If you root your phone and install a custom rom, you can get around it and they can’t tell.

If you’re factory, it sends that hotspot info to them.

Num10ck , to lemmyshitpost in m'theydy

about time to switch back to sugartits, but for everyone.

ikidd ,
@ikidd@lemmy.world avatar

I did that the day I learned the word “sugartits”.

idunnololz ,
@idunnololz@lemmy.world avatar

sugarass

holycrap , to greentext in Dr 4Chan's Medical Advice

Just donate blood. Skip the infection risk.

ArmokGoB ,

They won’t take my blood.

LemmyKnowsBest ,

Welp, better make an appt with the leech doctor then

oce ,
@oce@jlai.lu avatar

I’m not donating my blood plastic for free!

Synthuir ,

Oh great, now I have to worry about DuPont and Dow coming to repo my blood.

Confused_Emus ,

I’ve got an idea for an opera…

sugar_in_your_tea ,

New money making idea: plasma centers that filter microplastics.

MacNCheezus ,
@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today avatar

What if we give you a donut for it?

CheapFrottage ,

It also works on forever chemicals. They studied levels of PFAS in the blood of firefighters (who are commonly exposed to high levels in the foam they use), and found a clear difference between those that regularly donated blood and those who didn’t

mellowheat , to lemmyshitpost in She did her best ok?

I like how the pronoun suggests that the teacher is an actual cat.

xorollo ,

We confirmed the lawyer is not a cat, but not the teacher.

empireOfLove2 , to funny in Recursion

“Switching to your secondary is faster than reloading.”

ThePyroPython ,

Nice! Your 2nd amendment skills are remarkable!

nothacking , to programmerhumor in Died from reading this

GNU is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX is not UNIX[Maximum call stack size exceeded]

neo ,
@neo@lemmy.comfysnug.space avatar
shrugal ,

How is this a thing??

_dev_null ,
@_dev_null@lemmy.zxcvn.xyz avatar

Yeah some kind of fucky configuration.

The root is:

archive.ubuntu.com

Which, if the ubuntu link is clicked, then drops you into the the real archive root… but the link is “appended” to the new path, but the same link is reproduced in the “new” folder. Click it again, and another segment added to your current path even though you’re in the same root archive, ad nauseam.

I couldn’t find this misconfiguration on stackoverflow, which leads me to believe someone at ubuntu is doing something especially special here.

dgkf ,

I’d bet that they symlinked /ubuntu to the server’s home root - probably for continuity with some previous file structure. It sure looks silly, but I’m sure the reasons for doing it were pretty reasonable.

Damage ,

Wtf

brbposting ,

That’s great, it even goes deeper

http://ubuntu.ubuntu.ubuntu.ubuntu.ubuntu.ubuntu.ubuntu.ubuntu.ubuntu.ubuntu.ubuntu.ubuntu.ubuntu.ubuntu.ubuntu.ubuntu.ubuntu.ubuntu.ubuntu.ubuntu.ubuntu.ubuntu.ubuntu.ubuntu.ubuntu.ubuntu.ubuntu.ubuntu.ubuntu.ubuntu.ubuntu.ubuntu.ubuntu.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ubuntu/ubuntu/ubuntu/ubuntu/ubuntu/ubuntu/ubuntu/ubuntu/ubuntu/ubuntu/ubuntu/ubuntu/ubuntu/ubuntu/ubuntu/ubuntu/ubuntu/ubuntu/ubuntu/ubuntu/ubuntu/ubuntu/ubuntu/ubuntu/ubuntu/ubuntu/ubuntu/ubuntu/ubuntu/ubuntu/ubuntu/ubuntu/ubuntu/ubuntu/ubuntu/ubuntu/ubuntu/ubuntu/ubuntu/dists/mantic-backports/universe/debian-installer/binary-i386/by-hash/SHA256/e7ab72b8f37c7c9c9f6386fb8e3dfa40bf6fe4b67876703c5927e47cb8664ce4

nick ,

Rofl amazing

Klear ,

GNU is not UNiplexed Information Computing System is not UNiplexed Information Computing System is not UNiplexed Information Computing System is not UNiplexed Information Computing System is not UNiplexed Information Computing System is not UNiplexed Information Computing System is not UNiplexed Information Computing System is not UNiplexed Information Computing System is not UNiplexed Information Computing System is not UNiplexed Information Computing System is not UNiplexed Information Computing System is not UNiplexed Information Computing System is not UNiplexed Information Computing System is not UNiplexed Information Computing System is not UNiplexed Information Computing System is not UNiplexed Information Computing System

SexualPolytope ,
@SexualPolytope@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

A tail-recursive version written in OCaml that should not reach stack limits easily. (Not an expert in OCaml, so this might be stupid. But I tried it with 10000 iterations, and it worked without any issues.)


<span style="font-weight:bold;color:#a71d5d;">let </span><span style="color:#0086b3;">gnu </span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#a71d5d;">=
</span><span style="color:#323232;">    </span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#a71d5d;">let rec </span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#795da3;">aux </span><span style="color:#323232;">s </span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#a71d5d;">= function
</span><span style="color:#323232;">    </span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#a71d5d;">| </span><span style="color:#0086b3;">0 </span><span style="color:#323232;">-> s
</span><span style="color:#323232;">    </span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#a71d5d;">| </span><span style="color:#323232;">n -> aux (s</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#a71d5d;">^</span><span style="color:#183691;">" is Not Unix"</span><span style="color:#323232;">) (n</span><span style="color:#0086b3;">-1</span><span style="color:#323232;">)
</span><span style="font-weight:bold;color:#a71d5d;">in</span><span style="color:#323232;"> aux </span><span style="color:#183691;">"GNU"</span><span style="color:#323232;">;;
</span>
barsoap , (edited )

Not an OCaml expert either but that looks tail recursive, you’re never going to blow the stack.

You can tell by how after the recursive call within aux, its result does not get used within the function. That means that the compiler doesn’t need to push a return address to the stack as the only code that would be at that address is instructions to pop another address and return there, we can short-circuit all that and jump from the base case (0) directly to where aux(10000) is supposed to return to instead of taking 10000 dumb steps (like practically all procedural languages do because they don’t have tail call optimisation).

This would’ve been different if you had concatenated the string not as an argument to aux.

SexualPolytope ,
@SexualPolytope@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

That was the idea. But I’m not a functional programmer (not a programmer by profession at all lol), so I might’ve done something stupid. Hence the disclaimer. Thanks for confirming.

barsoap ,

OCaml certainly isn’t a bad language to learn for a non-professional. It’s almost painfully sensible and well-engineered, you’re far away from hype train nonsense and startup production jank but also not out in the “the purpose of this language is to be beautiful and earn me a PhD” territory, OCaml definitely is a production language.

sacredfire ,

I thought Tail recursion just gets turned into an iterative loop by the compiler? Hence why you won’t get a stack overflow. And since in procedural languages you can just use a loop in place of a tail recursive function you would never run into this problem, right? At least this is how it was taught to me when I was learning about it in lisp.

barsoap ,

Yes you still need the loop part I skipped over that one, only focussing on the “why no return address on the stack” part. It’s what you need to focus on to see whether a recursive call is in a tail position and if it is the compiler does the rest no need to worry about that part.

Kissaki , to programmer_humor in MySQL moment
@Kissaki@programming.dev avatar

Turned into a skeleton in 10 minutes

drkt ,
@drkt@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Waiting for a computer causes a temporal bubble to surround the subjects and age them at a rate of x100

MonkderZweite ,

ca. 150’000’000’0000 CPU cycles.

Downcount ,

Yeah, also each query request was a human beeing. Such an unrealistic comic.

owen ,

Not to mention, mysql is a database management framework, while in the comic it’s a food stand! Absurd!

RustyNova ,

Not queries, programs. They have pid

Downcount ,

Shoot, you are right wrong. They are processes.

RustyNova ,

Ah FUCK- mind said process, fingers typed program. But most of the time they are equivalent

Downcount ,

The thing is, at first I actually, responded with “you are right”. See, humans make errors. Also, this isn’t a competence competition. (At least I hope so.)

brisk ,
Finalsolo963 ,

🏳️‍⚧️

HowManyNimons ,

Also rings don’t make you invisible.

RustyNova ,

Got sigkill-ed. But of course, this doesn’t cancel the request

devfuuu ,

If a query does not take 30 min does it even exist?

Delta_V ,

The waiting is how you know its giving you correct answers.

Fridgeratr ,

Exactly lol. If it’s instant you know you fucked up

merthyr1831 , to reddit in Reddit sent me invitations to their IPO to my "deleted" accounts! That's a GDPR violation!

I haven’t used my reddit account the API change, beyond maybe 3 or 4 comments. I got an invite. How the fuck was I one of their top 35k most active users? Seems like their site isnt nearly as active as they’re claiming

Appoxo ,
@Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Karma was a relevant factor. I guess if yoi had a good amount of karma it may have contributed to it.

chiliedogg ,

It’s based in Karma. Since I had over 200k I was invited in the first group even though I hadn’t logged in since the change.

DragonAce ,

Yeah I just got an invite as well and I haven’t logged in since the protest that brought the first wave of us here. So karma has to be a deciding factor, I had over 100k I think so that would be the only reason I got an invite.

chiliedogg ,

100k is the threshold for the second round of invitations.

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/ddd7b93d-df97-400e-a981-10fbbc536f94.jpeg

mxcory ,

They must be into round 4, I have never been a mod.

chiliedogg ,

It’s either/or. I’ve never been one, but since I had over 200k Karma I was in round 1.

DoctorRoxxo ,

I have 40k karma on an 12 year old account and was invited. Obviously not buying that sit tho

chiliedogg ,

There are a couple other factors. Were you a mod? Did you ever participate in one of reddit’s community programs like the Helper Program or Mod Council?

The 3 criteria are MVP status, which is based on participation in certain programs, Karma, or Mod Actions.

mxcory ,

Just chiming in, 34k karma (only 4 post karma) and haven’t posted for 9 months. Never a mod. I also got the IPO offer. Think I was gifted gold one time.

wildebeesties ,

Same. 13 year account with 42,000 karma. Have not been on since the API change. Never a mod, never part of anything special, just a regular user in every way.

merthyr1831 ,

ah i thought it was based on activity (though Reddit wrongly likes to correlate the two)

NightAuthor ,

People should express interest, and go through whatever steps just short of actually buying

fxt_ryknow ,

I got the email, also… And like you, I’ve not used reddit since the api BS. I’ve not logged in, commented or anything since just before sync stopped working.

dejected_warp_core ,

Did you post a lot? Do you have email notifications turned on?

My old account has… a lot (six digits worth), of comment karma. But I think I posted a grand total of three times in the last ten years or so. I also have notifications turned off. So, no IPO notification for me.

setsneedtofeed ,
@setsneedtofeed@lemmy.world avatar

I too got an email and haven’t posted at all since the API change.

If I really was in the top 35k before that, then at least I know quitting Reddit made some kind of dent in their content.

bleistift2 , to memes in Brought to you by the Bosnian Swimming Team.

Why did this have to be a traffic map?

Trashboat ,
@Trashboat@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

To drive us mad

spicytuna62 OP ,
@spicytuna62@lemmy.world avatar

When you live in a car dependent country where you have to drive literally everywhere, you’re already mad.

But yes, I never turn off traffic in Google Maps.

crony ,
@crony@lemmy.cronyakatsuki.xyz avatar

Totalna istina. Također ne gasim.

onion ,

Sir you need to turn on OpenStreetMap

spicytuna62 OP ,
@spicytuna62@lemmy.world avatar

Thanks for making me aware. I’ll check it out.

thefartographer , (edited ) to lemmyshitpost in This should be fun

When you’re having sex with your partner, what fantasy would you play in your head just before you orgasm?

PP_BOY_ OP ,
@PP_BOY_@lemmy.world avatar

This one is obvious. I’d visit the bedroom of Mr. and Mrs. Hitler on that faithful evening and slip a rubber over the old man’s johnny while the lights were out.

Badeendje ,
@Badeendje@lemmy.world avatar

Just wow

pineapplelover ,

I’m interested to know what the original was

stebo02 ,
@stebo02@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

I imagine something like “what’s the first thing you do if you could time-travel”

crispy_kilt , to memes in Dis-Nap

It’s still Gisnep to me

tpyo ,

I never questioned the y but always read it as a G

Holyhandgrenade ,
@Holyhandgrenade@lemmy.world avatar

I always read it as an Ð, which is am Icelandic letter. It kinda sounds like the “th” in “the”, so I read it as “Thisney”

negativenull , to til in TIL the Apollo 11 astronauts had to go through immigration in Hawaii when they splashed down because they had left U.S. borders.
@negativenull@lemmy.world avatar

Apollo 13 Jack Swigert requested a Tax Filing extension while headed to the moon:

“How do I apply for an extension?” he asked from space to those in Mission Control, who began to laugh. “Things kind of happened real fast down there and I need an extension. I’m really serious.”

Flight director Glynn Lunney later reassured the astronaut: American citizens who were out of the country received a 60-day filing extension. “I assume this applies,” he told the astronaut, who was already far from the planet at that time.

[source]

dellish ,

I love how this was added to the Apollo 13 movie. As they’re floating about feeling cold and miserable Swigert gets told he has been granted an extension as he is “definitely out of the country”.

negativenull ,
@negativenull@lemmy.world avatar

Such a good movie

subtext ,

See I would have just assumed this was an incredible line added by some hilarious writer. The fact that it’s true is just chefs kiss perfect

captain_aggravated ,
@captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

After Apollo 13’s safe return, Grumman Aerospace sent North American Aviation an invoice for “Towing fees” as the lunar module was the active ship during much of the outbound and all of the inbound leg of the mission.

Rooter , to lemmyshitpost in Tipping culture npcs

“Other struggling people are not the enemy”.

Op is jeff bezos alt account.

atyaz ,

Or even to use this same example, why not blame the restaurant owner? They can choose to pay their waiters well and tell customers there’s no need for tipping.

Rediphile ,

The idiot pro-tipping customers will still tip. They’ll try to sneak a tip and dumb shit like that. And I’m not about to blame a server for accepting free money.

But what price is fair? How is the owner supposed to just guess that?

I’d argue the wage that an employee voluntarily agrees to is about the fairest system possible: Make job posting, state the wage and job requirements, and people who find the wage fair then apply for it. I don’t see why this works fine in literally all other industries.

atyaz ,

There’s nothing wrong with tipping. It’s the required tipping that’s the problem. What’s fair is a fair salary. Waiters are paid like $2 an hour because the restaurant owners are allowed to take tips into consideration, which is what I’m arguing against.

Rediphile ,

Required tipping isn’t a thing. Tipping is, by definition, always optional.

Jakeroxs ,

Going to go ahead and guess you’ve never worked in a restaurant, because you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Rediphile ,

You guessed wrong. I have a strong opinion against tipping specifically because of working in restaurants including as a server.

I did not like the inconsistent pay and would have preferred consistent pay. I’m sorry if that doesn’t align with your worldview.

Jakeroxs ,

So you’ve been a server and are aware of the uneven pay and the fact that if you don’t get good enough tips you’re making a starvation wage of minimum wage, and yet you still decide “fuck those people who are being exploited by restaurant owners because I don’t agree with tipping.” That’s heartless

Rediphile ,

Yes, because I’m against the inconsistent pay I experienced and want it to end so others do not experience the same.

Heartless is continuing to encourage such a system.

Jakeroxs ,

You not tipping isn’t going to result in any fundamental change in the system, you’re just stiffing the people who are being exploited.

Rediphile ,

Me not tipping probably the most meaningfully personal action I can take to help to bring a change to the system, namely ending tipping.

It’s certainly more effective than continued tipping is at trying to end tipping.

Jakeroxs ,

You could simply not eat at places that don’t pay their staff a living wage, because as it is, you’re still paying the company to continue their shitty practices.

ShaggySnacks ,

As a back of house worker, nothing was more disheartening then hearing all the servers go “I only made $200 in tips today in three hours” and being like “I only made $40 because I worked three hours.”

Rediphile ,

Yep, having worked both sides is probably part of why I see tipping as so silly.

ECB ,

Or they could have been kitchen-staff. They are one of the biggest victims of tipping culture.

Essentially chefs are generally paid much, much less than wait-staff and it is very difficult to correct this balance. The reason is that in a normal business you would raise prices to afford to pay higher salaries, but since tips are percentage based this also raises the wages of wait-staff. This becomes a bigger and bigger issue the higher the tipping percentage goes. Restaurant margins tend to be razor thin as well, so raising prices would be the only way to raise kitchen-staff wages.

It’s one reason why many restaurants are struggling to find kitchen-staff, because even highly trained chefs can make 2-3 times as much working front-of-house. There are quite a few restaurants which are trying to fix this by banning tips, but it’s difficult due to resistance from customers and wait-staff.

Jakeroxs ,

Chain restaurant margins are not razor thin, to give an example, Olive Garden spaghetti costs about 30 cents total per bowl and is sold for $10.

I do not believe at all that the resistance is from customers or wait staff and everything to do with big restaurant chains refusing to pay a living wage, which also goes for kitchen staff who are also generally underpaid. Why pay your staff well if you can put the blame on the customers if they don’t tip?

dangblingus ,

This is the point that 50% of North Americans don’t understand. The restaurant owners have set the culture, and they exploit young people and customers alike. However, 50% of people think they’re entitled to eat out and therefore entitled to not tip, which only rewards the scummy restaurant owner for having exploitative business practices. Choosing to eat out and not tip makes tipping culture WORSE.

Cringe2793 ,

Well because the struggling people are blaming you when you don’t tip. They should blame the restaurant owner. But they blame the diner instead.

That’s why people take servers/waiters as the “enemy”

Rediphile ,

I definitely don’t see servers who support tipping as ‘the enemy’, just idiots.

I was literally a server for years too.

recapitated , (edited )

Doesn’t matter who gets blamed, if things were corrupt (correct) the customer would be paying the same amount as tipping that much. Tipping culture just gives the customer a chance to shirk.

Cringe2793 ,

Well if you are calling it “shirk” then it’s basically required. If it’s required why even give the illusion of a choice?

recapitated ,

That’s my point. Tipping culture is stupid.

Consumers should pay the cost to consume, including materials, operations and staffing.

It’s not an illusion of choice, it is a choice, and a choice that abuses workers and confuses customers.

Cringe2793 ,

The thing is the consumers are paying the cost. The business owners are just taking more of the profits. They just need to pay the workers more.

And the “choice” you mention is a false one. People can’t really refuse to pay a tip, can they? They’ll get a lot of hostility from the staff (who have been brainwashed to think that it’s the customers’ responsibility). Notice that this isn’t really a thing outside the US.

recapitated ,

People can refuse to pay tips and some people don’t care about that hostility.

Cringe2793 ,

Most people care though.

dangblingus ,

How about we all agree that restaurant owners are the enemy? I don’t care that the 20 year old server working for the weekend doesn’t understand the nuance of the labor they engage in. They’re being exploited and you think that they’re the root cause of tipping culture, when in fact, it’s always been the restaurant owners.

Cringe2793 ,

I think you’re deliberately misinterpreting what I’m saying. I am saying they should blame the restaurant owner.

But it certainly doesn’t help the situation when the server is blaming you and being hostile because you didn’t tip enough.

hyperhopper ,

Disagree. Most servers and bartenders are in favor of tipping culture and want it to stay this way with zero wages and societally enforced tips.

Yes, the corporations are the enemy, but these other struggling people are on the side of the actual enemy.

Jennykichu ,
@Jennykichu@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Of course they’re in favor of it you idiot its how they make a reasonable living. The people choosing to go to a restaurant are not victims in this arrangement.

If you can’t afford to dine out then maybe demand your boss pay you more. They’re the ones screwing you, not the waitress at Olive Garden.

dangblingus ,

Well sure, anyone would. If you give me $20 on a $100 bill, and you were in my section for an hour with 5-6 tables that all had similar bills and tipping percentage, I’d be ecstatic! That doesn’t mean it’s a good system for everyone. Hot girls make the most amount of tips while dudes serving break their back to make 15%. That hot 20 year old server that you had last time you went out to eat goes to Mexico once a month on her tips.

hyperhopper ,

Exactly, so the people in favor of keeping the fucked up system are part of the problem

JCreazy , to lemmyshitpost in Tipping culture npcs

I just stopped going to places or using services that expect me to tip. I hate the idea of tipping.

Sami_Uso , (edited )

Cook at home, we don’t want you there anyways.

**Gosh I didn’t realize Lemmy was so full of broke assholes hell bent on taking money out of service employees pockets. Very working class of you guys!

NoIWontPickaName ,

Order take-out, all the food, none of the worries

Rakonat ,

Thats the funny part, they still want tips on everything they sell. Tipping just needs to be stamped out and employers made to pay living wages.

TokenBoomer ,

But that’s socialism. /s

Rakonat ,

Here, hold this hammer for me. /s

dangblingus ,

The debit machine is automatically programmed to ask for a tip. Your server or take out bagger didn’t program the debit machine. No one has a gun to your head saying you have to tip on takeout. Servers generally aren’t required to tip out on takeout orders.

PatMustard ,

taking money out of service employees pockets

Doesn’t your employer pay your wage?

dangblingus ,

No. They pay starvation wages. Server wages in the states is like $2.65/hr. “Well if they hate it just quit!” What person in the US could do the intense labor of serving tables and still survive on that little? Who would want to?

PatMustard ,

Do you not have a minimum wage?

Sami_Uso ,

Alot of states in the US have like the opposite of pro rated minimum wage where they actually are paid less than minimum wage because they earn tips.

So like a waitress earns $2.75/hour as opposed to $10/hour because she might make that up in tips within the hour. That’s the thought anyways.

PatMustard ,

So what happens if they don’t make any tips? Surely they still need to make the legal minimum wage?

Rediphile ,

Going anyway and just not tipping is also a completely acceptable and legally protected option. Sort of like saying ‘no thank you’ to the grocery store check out person asking for charity donations or if you would like to sign up for the store credit card.

Again, it’s optional. So people can also say ‘yes’ if they want and that’s cool too I guess. Although tipping is inherently harmful to the server’s baseline wage which is a bit problematic, if people want to tip they can and no one is stopping them. And I won’t give them shit about it unless they specifically inquire about it. Since the whole thing is ‘optional’ after all I let them make their own decisions and if tipping gives them a nice release of serotonin or dopamine or something that makes them feel better, who am I to take that from them.

fathog ,

Just don’t eat out if you don’t want to tip. Tipping culture is fucked but servers are just as victimized as customers.

Rediphile ,

No thank you.

KevonLooney ,

Going anyway and just not tipping is also a completely acceptable and legally protected option.

It’s legal, but not tipping at a restaurant is cheap. It’s also legal for them to ban you from the restaurant, which will probably happen if you give them a diatribe against tipping.

Rediphile ,

While they could definitely ban me and I’d have no problem with that at all, they won’t… because the owners have no incentive to ban me. They make the exact same amount from me whether I tip or not.

I guess if someone went on a big rant that disturbed other customers and caused a loss of sales they may ban them. But otherwise, just quietly playing your bill and leaving, no…not getting banned lol.

PatMustard ,

not tipping at a restaurant is cheap

If you actually believe this then they’ve already got to you. This is Stockholm Syndrome, or the Sunk Cost Fallacy, or good old peer pressure.

rsuri ,

I look at it as Actual price = menu price + lowest suggested tip + $5 tip awkwardness penalty. So a place near me has a $12 lunch-size sub sandwich that’s really good. But they ask for a 15% tip. So rather than just never eat at my favorite sandwich spot, I regard it as a $18.80 lunch and only buy it on rare occasions or when my company is paying.

SuperSpruce ,

Same. I multiply any restaurant price by 4/3 to account for taxes, fees, and tips when determining if I want to go.

MisterFrog ,
@MisterFrog@lemmy.world avatar

Taxes and fees should included in the price, in civilised countries anyway. That sounds like such a pain.

Rediphile ,

They are included in the price in civilized countries. It is only a very very limited number of places where you can’t hand a cashier $5 to pay for something literally labelled $5 and then walk out.

SkippingRelax ,

I think the guy you replied to is from the US.

NoIWontPickaName ,

I hate American math

ohlaph ,

If I’m getting it to go, no tip. Or just the tip.

PeroBasta ,

You tip a fastfood?

ColeSloth ,

You’re tipping at a sandwich shop? Do they even bring you the sandwich and fill your drink for you?

Rediphile ,

Thanks for subsidizing my $12 sandwiches I guess lol. That sure helps me out! Don’t think it helps the servers much in the long run though.

dangblingus ,

This is a valid choice. What isn’t valid is still going out to restaurants, having a gay ol time, and then refusing to tip your server on principle while the owner did nothing and made a killing.

JCreazy ,

I’m not really a big fan of this rhetoric. People should be able to go to a restaurant and eat without being expected to pay more than what their food costs. They shouldn’t be shamed for not wanting to tip. This becomes an issue of personal morality which is why I just don’t eat out, but I don’t think it’s anyone else’s business except for the person spending the money since it is their money after all. It’s not a customer’s responsibility to make up the pay of a business’s employee. PERIOD. Basically what I’m saying is I don’t go places that expect me to tip but I 100% support people’s decisions to go to restaurants and not tip because that is their right.

CaptainSpaceman ,

Its their right to be a shitty person so you support it?

Damn son. Its one thing to accept a shitty person is shitty, but its a whole other matter to support that shitty person and tell them they should keep doing what theyre doing.

That server is making $2.13 per hour if theyre American. Non-tippers are robbing that server of another table who would actually pay for their service and allow that server to eat and have a place to stay.

Yes, its part of the game. No, I dont like tip culture. Yes, shitty people dont tip. No, I will never condone the idea of stiffing a server who lives off of tips.

JCreazy ,

I find it interesting how you’re putting the blame on the customer and not the employer. You have no problem calling someone a shitty person for not tipping but you’re okay with the practice of a business paying $2.13 an hour to their employees. It should never be the customer’s responsibility to make sure that the employees of a restaurant are paid enough. Your attitude shows how brainwashed people are into defending these restaurants by putting the blame on customers.

CaptainSpaceman ,

I did say I hate tipping culture. Its absolute bullshit and should be done away with.

The owners are absolutely shitty too, I never praised them.

You’re building a strawman and then using it as a whataboutism to try to “gotcha” my argument.

ColeSloth , (edited )

Serving is a low skill, job outside of fine dining. You remember a couple pages worth of menu and you write down what people want and you fill their drinks. It’s not high skilled. It’s not physically hard. A 16 year old can do it well after a week or two of training. Getting $150 in tips for a 6 hour shift and then only reporting half of it on your taxes is a showcase in how stupid it is to tip so much for it.

You’re talking about “oh, poor server that makes $2.13 an hour” but why do you think servers as a whole are vehemently against removing tips and going to a normal pay? They know what skill level their job falls at. They know if they were being paid hourly with no tips they’d be getting paid around the same as fast station clerks, retail workers, and grocers. Making in the ball park of $16/hr (obviously varies by area) and they would actually hate to be making that.

CaptainSpaceman ,

Eh, plenty of servers in Europe are grown ass adults and they dont rely on tips. How do you think that works?

Maybe once service starts declining more than it already has in the US, the customers will start complaining and the corporations will listen and try to pay servers a better wage so they are happier and more inclined to give happy service.

Or maybe they’ll just keep raping profits from the “low-skilled” workers until the only ones who WANT to do the job CANT do the job because they arent skilled enough (hence, the decline of service quality in America as it stands today).

ColeSloth ,

It sounds like you’re trying to argue against what I said, but I can’t actually tell what you’re arguing against.

Diplomjodler , to lemmyshitpost in bonus if she's real

Now, I don’t want to be too picky, but her being alive would be nice.

fl42v ,

> Hi mom, hi dad! Meet my gf [redacted]!

whispering

> Yes, she’s a little bit dug up corpse, but don’t say that around her: she’s kinda sensitive about it.

(Stolen from a random video/podcast)

ignotum ,

I also get upset when people say i look like a corpse,

Just because i am one doesn’t mean you have to constantly point it out!

MissJinx ,
@MissJinx@lemmy.world avatar

I mean, alive, consenting age, not Intellectually disable, not in a coma… also, we all know can"t be fat

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