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FaceDeer ,
@FaceDeer@kbin.social avatar

I must admit, "Linux becomes the refuge of luddites" was never on any bingo card I could have conceived of for 202X.

Rustmilian ,
@Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

The Luddites of Linux are one’s desperately trying to convince people that Xorg is perfectly flawless and that Wayland is vaporware.

rottingleaf ,

Why would people you call luddites even care about your opinion really?

Come back with your Wayland ad when there’s something like CWM or FVWM for it.

It’s simply functionally inferior now. Calling people luddites won’t change that.

Rustmilian , (edited )
@Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

Why would people you call luddites even care about your opinion really?

Literally, YOU right now.
Also, this is the linux community; everyone has an opinion on everyone else’s opinion.

Come back with your Wayland ad when there’s something like CWM or FVWM for it.

LabWC, Enlightenment, Wayfire, Weston, Sway, Hyperland, Vivarium, DWL, Velox, etc.

It’s simply functionally inferior now.

It’s functionally superior in many ways, and here’s the real kicker, its actually maintainable and expandable.
Xorg HDR when? How many decades and still don’t have HDR? LMAO.
I’m done waiting for Xorg to improve and implement features that simply will never be.

fuckwit_mcbumcrumble ,

Just fyi this isn’t the Linux community. It’s just “technology”.

Granted on lemmy it’s basically just one big Linux community.

Rustmilian ,
@Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

Didn’t even realize lmao.

rottingleaf ,

Literally, YOU right now.

I’m improving the community by answering demonstrably stupid opinions. So I don’t care about you in particular.

Sway, Hyperland, Vivarium, DWL, Velox, etc.

Wrong.

Xorg HDR when? How many decades and still don’t have HDR? LMAO.

I don’t use HDR and I don’t care. Just like you don’t care about what I use.

its actually maintainable and expandable.

Yes, I’m sure somewhere 10 years after I’ll use it after it’s been finally expanded to something usable.

I’m done waiting for Xorg to improve and implement features that simply will never be.

Too bad

Rustmilian , (edited )
@Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

I’m improving the community by answering demonstrably stupid opinions

You answer you’re own opinions? funny.

Wrong

CWM : stacking window manger
LabWC, Enlightenment, Wayfire, Weston, and Sway, etc.

FVWM : Tab Window Manager
DWL, Hyprland, Sway again, etc.

You’re factually disproven.

I don’t use HDR and I don’t care…
I’m sure somewhere 10 years after…

Luddite : one who is opposed to technological change.
Thanks for proving my point. For further discussion you can TELNET me @ www.megaboomerenergy.com::80

rottingleaf ,

This is incomprehensible, you are arguing not having seen once what you are arguing about.

Rustmilian , (edited )
@Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

If you want a 1:1 equivalent WM, then you’ll just have to build it yourself scrub.
The WMs I listed can already do everything CWM & FVWM can, then some.

rottingleaf ,

The WMs I listed can already do everything CWM & FVWM can, then some.

I can send you my FVWM config and hear how are you going to achieve that.

Rustmilian , (edited )
@Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

First I’d start with either DWL, Hyprland, or possibly Sway, then read the documentation re-creating everything as close as possible. (⁠◠⁠‿⁠◕⁠)
All the features are there, just glue it yourself. Just the same way you’d convert those same configs to an i3 & DWM equivalent.
If you can’t deal with that and want a 1:1 WM, then you’ll just have to build it yourself or convince one of the other 3 people who still use FVWM to do it.

rottingleaf ,

with either DWL, Hyprland, or possibly Sway,

Do these things allow me to define functions and to call them on focus change, on windowshade, on iconification, on other events? Can I evaluate text returned by a command spawned in those as part of my config, at any moment? Can these functions differentiate between windows by mask? By state? BTW, can I have custom states? Can I have conditionals there? Schedule those functions? Change that schedule?

Just the same way you’d convert those same configs to an i3 & DWM equivalent.

I wouldn’t. These are different things for a different workflow.

All the features are there

Where there?

I know you are not an adult.

Rustmilian , (edited )
@Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

Do these things allow me to define functions and to call them on focus change, on windowshade, on iconification, on other events? Can I evaluate text returned by a command spawned in those as part of my config, at any moment? Can these functions differentiate between windows by mask? By state? BTW, can I have custom states? Can I have conditionals there? Schedule those functions? Change that schedule?

Yes.

I wouldn’t. These are different things for a different workflow.

And nobody cares about your workflow, sorry. Go convince one of 3 other people to make your 1:1 equivalent.

Where there?

Consult the official documentation and community configs, etc. It not that fuckin hard dude.

I know you are not an adult.

You’re the one who immediately started name calling trying to “correct” me with incorrect nonsense in a different thread, dumbass. Not to mention, “luddite” wasn’t even directed at you personally, you applied it to yourself.

rottingleaf ,

Yes

OK, that’s my config: pastebin.com/AFLe2x8N (messy, but not too much). Until you replicate it for something under Wayland, I don’t care.

Rustmilian , (edited )
@Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

Do it yourself whiner, I’m not going to convert your 555ln of crap into an equivalent config with all the equivalent necessary add-ons and plug-ins for you. Go ask ChatGPT because an AI is the only thing that’ll be able to stand you. You can stay with your abandonware for all eternity for all I care, I’m busy doing things that are much more productive then wasting my time helping an ungrateful egomaniac (e.g. literally anything else).

rottingleaf ,

So you won’t, then fuck off

Rustmilian , (edited )
@Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

Never said I would, nor do you even deserve such kindness. I’m not about to spend 3+ hours building and fine tweaking a config for an asshole that publicly goatees itself on the internet.
If you’re lazy, don’t be a little shit too. choosing beggars get nowhere.

rottingleaf ,

Just fuck off. You had your chance to support all the bullshit you’ve said, you haven’t. Now you are a little bitch whining for attention

Rustmilian , (edited )
@Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

“Now you are a little bitch whining for attention. I- I’m not projecting, I’m not projecting, I I’m not ༼⁠;⁠´⁠༎ຶ⁠ ⁠۝ ⁠༎ຶ⁠༽”

eskimofry ,

A luddite should ideally not involve in Display Server wars

mriormro ,
@mriormro@lemmy.world avatar

You people are fucking crazy and will literally find anything to fight about. Normal users don’t care about this sort of shit and it’s the thing that turns people completely off when they inevitably run into a problem with Linux.

Rustmilian , (edited )
@Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

inevitably run into a problem with Linux

This has nothing to do with any of kind of Linux problem.
It’s just Luddites crying because Linux is moving on from outdated flawed software that has a bunch of unfixable problems.
Same shit happens with windows, my guy. “WHAAAAAAAA MY WINDOWS XP/98 WHAAAAAA”, at least it’s often partially valid for windows…
Luddites are not exclusive to any particular OS.

If someone is having a Linux issue, they just need to ask. Literally just ask me, or the vast major of other users, we’ll literally provide better tech support than Windows will ever have.

Kyatto ,
@Kyatto@leminal.space avatar

yeah I’ve seen the windows support forums, every official response either misses the point of the question or the answer is straight up wrong.

Rustmilian , (edited )
@Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

What gets me is the replies like “just wipe it & reinstall the whole thing”.
Yeah right, like I’mma spend an entire hour wiping, reformatting and reinstalling Windows, then varying additional time reconfiguring everything for a problem that likely has an extremely simple solution but they’re too lazy to gather the necessary information to actually solve it.
Assuming that the Windows installer doesn’t fuck up and I have to restart the install process again, which has happened to me several times.
At least Linux takes 5-10m tops to install for the user friendly distros.
Even I, a Linux user who’s spent hours upon days debugging kernel issues for my hardware can see how fuckin stupid that shit copout advice is.

Harbinger01173430 ,

Yeah, I don’t know why they devolve back to tribalism. I just installed the thing and the programs I had to use and just…kept using it since I didn’t want to pirate windows xd. No need to shout to others what’s my favorite fake non Unix distro or anything.

Rustmilian , (edited )
@Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

This is not tribalism.
This is people crying because Windows moved from 95 to 98 for comparison.

Xorg has a plethora of unfixable issues, and people are mad that we can’t & don’t want to stick to it for all eternity, crippling the hell out of Linux growth & innovation.

Harbinger01173430 ,

I just hope they get rid of the ancient stuff to make the neckbeards seethe xd

ekky ,

Huh? Isn’t this about Microsoft changing out a button with a well established use, in order to take advantage of muscle memory and the unobservant?

Don’t think it’s much to do with people opposing technological advancement, but rather with opposing another company wanting to making a fool of them.

FaceDeer ,
@FaceDeer@kbin.social avatar

This is just another gripe about how Microsoft is putting AI into everything. If it's really just about the position of a button (which apparently can be changed in the settings if you still want it there) it's even more petty. Certainly not worth posting about on a general technology community.

StarPupil ,

I work in IT, and every time I do an install (sometimes new computers, sometimes not) for someone I see Microsoft’s little News widget they put on the Taskbar, the one that pops up a huge window if you mouse over it. Every time I see that, I ask the person if they ever use it, and they always say no. Then I ask them if they want it gone, and they always say yes, usually with some kind of relief. It’s a matter of two clicks to do it, easier than going into the settings menu like your screenshot, but every computer I haven’t been on previously has it. Now, I’d wonder why Microsoft would put something on the Taskbar that is, in my experience, universally disliked. To me it reeks of the pathetic, groveling, “I’ll suck your dick” energy they have when someone installs Chrome.

Windows 10 changed a lot over the course of its lifetime, and while some feature are good, like Dark Mode, they’re mostly useless or downright bad. So putting something that most people will never use and will greatly confuse and annoy the average user in a place that has been dedicated to a single function for at the very least Windows 10’s entire lifetime (I think it’s there in 8 and maybe 7 also) for seemingly no reason other than to fuck with people’s muscle memory is just one more move very worthy of griping about, no matter how easy it is for users to turn off. Because 99% of users just won’t, because they aren’t confident enough to go futzing around in the settings. But they’ll still get whatever god awful popup this button shows every time they try to show desktop like they’ve been doing for over a decade. It’s yet another change that nobody asked for, nobody will use, and that the user will have to remember that it’s different now for no reason.

Rustmilian ,
@Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

More over being a luddite on Linux is like a fish trying to breathe in a public swimming pool; it works until the chlorine poisoning sets in.
Linux adopts new technology constantly.

BarrierWithAshes ,
@BarrierWithAshes@kbin.social avatar

Ehn, one can survive pretty long with a stable distro.

Rustmilian , (edited )
@Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

Yes, but eventually that LTS goes EOL and you’ll have to move from that abandonware.

Granixo ,
@Granixo@feddit.cl avatar

Ubuntu LTS versions can last 10-12 years before EOL.

Rustmilian , (edited )
@Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

Yes, 10-12y to swim, slowly in-taking chlorine overtime…
Then when you do finally switch, you find yourself in a similar yet vastly different swimming pool and the cycle starts over.
Imagine when eventually the LTS goes Wayland only and Luddites go : “I’mma just stay with my abandonware forever.”
Luddites hate adapting to new technology as a character trait, it’s what makes them a Luddite.
Luddites will often choose to deal with decrepit, vulnerable, abandonware then change to something new because they don’t want to spend a week learning new “muscle memory”.

Hubi ,

The difference is that Linux generally adopts new technology because it enhances the user experience in some way, and not because it maximizes ad revenue and telemetry.

Rustmilian ,
@Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

Very true.

RobotToaster ,
@RobotToaster@mander.xyz avatar

“And the lord said unto John, come forth and install gentoo.”

tsonfeir ,
@tsonfeir@lemm.ee avatar

It would mean corporate software support. And while you might still choose FOSS, it means money pouring into Linux—which is always a good thing.

aeronmelon ,

If Linux Luddites could TELNET into Lemmy, they would be very angry with you!

noodlejetski ,

friendly reminder that theconversation.com/im-a-luddite-you-should-be-on…

FaceDeer ,
@FaceDeer@kbin.social avatar

That article attempts to paint Luddism in a positive light and then tries to redefine the term to mean something very for "neo-Luddites" anyway. I don't find it particularly compelling or well reasoned.

radamant ,

What do you mean? Vocal parts of Linux community is about 80% luddites

shotgun_crab ,

Muscle memory abuse

nickwitha_k ,

That’s what made me refuse to use the Reddit official app before their API garbage. Every update was a gamble as to whether they’d try to make me spend money through muscle memory.

Pika ,
@Pika@sh.itjust.works avatar

reminds me of discord

TheBat ,
@TheBat@lemmy.world avatar

Never used it. It asked for my phone number for verification when I tried to sign up, a long time back. I was like https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/002/382/535/298.gif

kratoz29 ,

I guess user name does not check out.

GluWu ,

I’ve been using Linux since Ubuntu was in the single digits. Looks like windows entering the double digits is finally the end. I thought win10 would be able to stay relatively unmolested, but nope, copilot button and bullshit right there in the bar. Why can’t you just leave us the fuck alone. Your driving everyone away who doesn’t have a professional obligation to use your OS. I’ll still have to keep a old win10 boot drive that never connects to a network so I can play games and use CAD that Linux can’t. As a KDE fanboi they’ve added pretty much everything I’ve always wished for and plasma 6 is launching.

Now is my time. Fuck you Microsoft. I won’t miss you.

Granixo ,
@Granixo@feddit.cl avatar

Didin’t Linux had FreeCAD?

GluWu ,

Yes, and you shit has it come so far. Unfortunately in the professional world you often just need the native program to open the file. Even just for compatability, but rolling back and/or modifying is only possible within its native software.

synapse1278 ,
@synapse1278@lemmy.world avatar

Would OnShape be an option for you ? I haven’t booted up Windows since I was able to work with OnShape to replace Solidworks. But I just do hobby projects. I didn’t have to worry about compatibility for collaboration.

captain_aggravated ,
@captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

FreeCAD…is getting there. They’re actually heading toward a 1.0 release, and bringing usability and convenience features. I’d say by 2025 it’ll be a better value proposition than the “Free non-commerical use drawbackware” tier offerings from Onshape or Fusion360.

cyberpunk007 ,

I flirted with gnome this install around. I’m so lazy to reinstall yet again to get back to my previous plasma. Seriously Linux is a way better experience these days, I wish those that could would just give it an honest shot. The learning curve isn’t too bad once you understand a couple things.

Fal ,
@Fal@yiffit.net avatar

Gnome is awful. It’s almost as bad as windows. Basically 0 customization, and getting worse every release. I can’t even fathom how you would voluntarily switch from plasma to gnome and not immediately switch back

ganoo ,
@ganoo@sh.itjust.works avatar

Idk with a couple of extensions I really enjoy the GNOME work-flow. Although I admit KDE on my SteamDeck has been tempting me lately.

Fal ,
@Fal@yiffit.net avatar

KDE is amazing and you should give it a try. It’s unbelievably customizable, and is so much more seamless. Having to use gnome is almost as frustrating as having to use macos. And in a lot of the same ways. Like, trying to get a usable task bar in gnome is infuriating.

ganoo ,
@ganoo@sh.itjust.works avatar

usable task bar in gnome

Just one easy to enable extension for this, but it should definitely be the default. Overall I like the stock GNOME experience and find it clean. When you get the hang of GNOME it starts to make sense. Super key is the answer.

KDE is obviously more powerful, but I don’t like customizing my desktop very much so that point is moot for me.

I’m going full KDE for the next 6 months, you should try GNOME for a bit, give it a solid chance with extensions.

Fal ,
@Fal@yiffit.net avatar

I’m forced to use gnome at work. It’s horrible

randomname01 ,

It just works for me, and I prefer the look to that of KDE. Like, fair enough if it’s not your cup of tea, but your basic point here is “I don’t like the workflow and I highly value customisation”, and you then act like your subjective preferences are fact.

You can customise Gnome quite a lot, btw. I’m not even saying you should give it another shot, but please just don’t act like your personal preferences are objectively accurate.

Fal ,
@Fal@yiffit.net avatar

I’m not even saying you should give it another shot, but please just don’t act like your personal preferences are objectively accurate.

I’m forced to use it at work if I want to use linux. You really can’t, and to customize even a little bit you need lots of extra tools and maybe even access the css. For example, extensions.gnome.org/extension/…/dash-to-panel/ is the only way to get a usable task bar. And calling it usable is being very generous.

The gnome devs are extremely opinionated in removing configuration and features. It’s honestly disgusting

cyberpunk007 ,

I dislike how they took away minimizing windows. Please help me understand the lack of system tray. I have apps that go there and I have a plugin to bring it back and all the icons have a black background which is super annoying.

Discord, telegram, signal, flameshot, and others are in there and I don’t understand how gnome intends me to access them otherwise when they’re “closed” in the background.

bigMouthCommie ,
@bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

i've always been able to minimize windows from the alt-space window menu. but they are enabling all kinds of customization through the extensions. i have transparent windows (every window, not just apps that support it as part of their functionality), tiling through the Forge extension, the tweak tool gives you lots of stuff including restoring the minimize button to where you think it should be, and there is even an extension to give you your system tray back. but now the gnome team can just focus on putting together the essential parts, and people who want thefunctionality you describe can build it and install it through the extensions.

i, too, was a bit put off when they ditched the gnome2 look and feel, and i stayed on xfce for a long time. but my job had me using windows and i found out that i like just hitting super, typing what i want to do, and then it happens.

now, the software center's tendency to tell me to reboot for updates is something else. we can hotswap kernels now. don't fucking tell me i need to reboot.

cyberpunk007 ,

My experience with the extensions is they frequently break on gnome updates and sometimes functionality is missing when updated and it’s been a disaster imo

cole ,
@cole@lemdro.id avatar

that’s a fair opinion, but for some people they feel the same way about KDE (me). Gnome’s workflow is killer for me, and I love the consistency in design and intent with everything.

I suppose not everybody just wants customizability

mesamunefire ,

10+ years with Linux as my daily driver (yeah I’m old). When my os updates, it’s almost always with some feature that’s pretty neat.

Nowadays the steamdeck or some combo of Linux with steam can play my games, do my work, and I actively make other people’s lives better when I contribute.

Allero ,

Thanks for your contribution to the Linux ecosystem!

It’s people like you who make this whole thing possible

mesamunefire ,

Anyone can. It’s part of what makes it great.

Cethin ,

Have you tried gaming on Linux lately? You don’t need Windows anymore except if you use GamePass, because MS has locked that software down to Windows. The only problem game I had was The Finals until recently, and it now works on Linux. Besides that the only issue is I can’t mod Baulder’s Gate 1 because it requires injecting things and that doesn’t work with Linux as far as I can figure out. The game runs fine.

GluWu ,

Yes, I’m a long time mint user, and I was also a 1st batch steamdeck so I’ve seen how far just proton has come. There’s still a handful of games that just won’t work, work but not with the mods I need, or take a performance hit. I also have a driving simulator with a VR headset. I’m sure I could get it running on Linux eventually but windows just does it. Recognizes and just installed the drivers for all my hardware. And for VR, there are now a lot of solutions, but I’ve found windows to just be the fastest and best performing. I need every frame I can get running vr on a 2060.

Cethin ,

Yeah, modding sucks right now. If the game let’s you manually add mods without injecting, then it’s fine, though manual can take a while. Nexus Mod Manager (and most others, though CKAN for KSP(1&2) works pretty well but won’t launch the game through that application for me) don’t work yet for Linux, but it looks like they’re working on a new application that’ll run natively on Linux, so I’m looking forward to that.

cole ,
@cole@lemdro.id avatar

r2modman has a native Linux client as well and handles pretty much all unity games

Mango ,

Ubuntu used to be animals!

octopus_ink ,

It still is. There’s an animal “codename” and a number for all releases.

wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases

Mango ,

Oh yay!!

GluWu ,

So many memories, dapper drake with the LTS. For some reason I used karmic koala which is 9.10 until 12. I played thousands of hours of minecraft and ksp because other that valve games those where like the only two that ran naively without fucking around with the abomination that wine was at the time.

everett ,

Ubuntu used to be naked people!

Mango ,

Lol what am I reading?

everett ,

Sorry, that was the best link I could find at that moment. Since the word “ubuntu” means something like “humanity towards others,” Canonical really leaned into that concept with their tagline “Linux for human beings” in the early days. This involved shipping some controversial wallpaper images and using less risque shots from the same photo shoot on things like the CD-ROM cover.

Mango ,

🤣

Geek_King ,

I noticed this bullshit a few days ago on my Win 11 desktop! I found if you go check the settings of the start bar, you can hide the copilot icon in the lower right, and then there’s a check box to enable the lower right hand corner to work as show desktop again. The functionality can be restore to exactly as it was, but what the hell were they thinking.

Enshitification, plain and simple.

histic ,

I don’t wanna defend Microsoft here cause yk fuck them but I’ma guess most people didn’t even know the show desktop was there tbh or if they did use it but then again I’ve never understood why it was there I never use it

Vejezdigna ,

Hide desktop is useful if you have many non-minimized windows and you don’t want to minimize each one. I can vouch for that button 😎.

Nilz ,

Or if you’re a psychopath with a desktop full of icons and files. Shudders

TwoCubed ,

Yeah, I hink its super useful too. But i usually use win+d.

TwilightVulpine ,

To be fair it’s not like there’s an icon showing what it does. Maybe it should have? I haven’t had issues with overcrowded task bars since Windows XP.

fine_sandy_bottom ,

I’ve known it was there but never used it.

dojan ,
@dojan@lemmy.world avatar

I genuinely do not get the hype of integrating LLMs fucking everywhere. There are places it makes sense, like word processors and email clients. Then there are places it doesn’t make sense, like as an aside in my desktop environment. No one’s going to use it. It’s Cortana all over again.

mods_are_assholes ,

It’s nothing but trend chasing, just like when microdick turned their server UIs into tablet UIs because they were seething at apple for the ipad.

WaxedWookie ,

The whole tablet UI switching had huge potential - particularly for 2-in-ones and to a lesser extent, mobile devices, but Microsoft absolutely butchered it in its infancy with atrocious execution, and by having the hubris to hobble their primary use-case (desktop) for the sake of pushing their half-baked nonsense into the mobile market. Users didn’t do themselves any favours by not understanding that you could just hit start then type the first couple of letters of what you want to launch (what kind of website double-clicking weirdo clicks through the whole start menu without pinned links or search anyway?).

To me, it all reeks of designers/PMs/devs putting forward a super-promising concept, which was ruined by a bunch of overpaid MBA dipshits that thought they knew better.

dejected_warp_core ,

(what kind of website double-clicking weirdo clicks through the whole start menu without pinned links or search anyway?).

So-called “muscle memory” runs deep with seasoned users. With Windows, if they started with Win95 there’s a lot of that to push back against.

Also, a lot of people who use computers daily are doing so by rote, sometimes to the point of sheer minimalism. Not everyone has turned thousands of hours at a keyboard into a deeper understanding of the system they use.

ferralcat ,

I get putting it here but it should probably just be in the normal search. Search is shit on every os in general. LLM could theoretically help it find actually relevant stuff (and filter out the kink it usually surfaces).

NoFun4You ,

Except I used Cortana all the time on my windows phone before they trashed that idea

HowManyNimons ,

Not enshitification, cause they’re not jacking up the price to put Show Desktop back. Just bad UI.

Engywuck ,

Switch to Linux!

As a Linux user myself, let me tell you that telling people what they should/must do this is how you make people plainly ignore you and think you’re just an annoying person.

People will keep using what works for them, be it Windows/Linux/MacOS even if with minor inconveniences. Same goes for browsers/services/etc…

AVincentInSpace ,

“Microsoft continually makes their OS worse, but every time they do, Linux users come into the comment section telling me I should switch, so I’m not going to.”

dependencyinjection ,

The thing is, is that it really doesn’t affect people in the way you guys seem to imagine.

I’ve used Linux, MacOS, and Windows. Currently use Windows for work as a C# . net, SQL / GraphQL, and React TypeScript developer and although I was shocked they’re all pro windows, coming from MacOS. Once you get used to it you don’t really notice the shit stuff as you just do what you’re doing.

I would still rate my experiences in this order though: MacOS, Linux, Windows. Best to worst, but like I said even though in now use the worst in my opinion it really doesn’t have much of an impact. Plus if I were to use Linux I’d need to geek out and waste so much time configuring it and I’m past that stage.

BananaTrifleViolin ,

I work in healthcate and use windows, at work and at home if I need to do work related stuff. I don’t mind windows at work as it’s been configured for the purpose and all the shitty bits are switched off - something Microsoft let’s it’s business users do. It’s a decent operating system when it’s set up to do what it needs to do, and I’m very familiar with it from using it since Windows 95.

I used to use windows at home and had Linux for occasional interest. But in the last few years I’ve moved away from windows and now I’m on Linux as my main driver on multiple devices.

For home users Windows is getting pretty shitty - it steals data all the time with numerous privacy settings you have to set to try and stop it, it tries to force you ads, it tries to force you to use its Web browser, it bundles lots of sponsored apps and when it does a big update it resets alot of your choices on privacy plus reinstalls removed bundle apps. It also throws new “features” at you which take up resources and impact privacy. Like Xbox gaming - I didn’t ask for it, I don’t want it, stop installing it every year and stop forcing an overlay on my own games.

It’s really a chore to use windows now; it feels like a constant battle to make sure it’s not intruding on your data and privacy or showing you ads. I now use windows as the exception when there is a specific game that doesn’t work in Linux. The rest of the time I boot into Linux, or use a separate work provided Windows device for home working.

I know it’s probably a case of “who asked” but I guess I just mean I get that windows can be decent for work related stuff (or necessary) but when it comes to personal stuff it’s a bit of a nightmare. And I guess it also comes down to whether the privacy invasion and advertising bothers users. Bothers me a lot, but some people don’t seem to care how the customer has become the product.

MonkeMischief ,

I know it’s probably a case of “who asked”

No, no. You’re welcome here too and your experience is really helpful to share, and also helps to dispell this idea that all Linux users are basement geeks pushing a software cult LOL.

I’m the same way, right there with you. I loved classic Windows for decades. My real last straw was when I was helping my sister with a reinstall and discovered firsthand how pushy they were being with forcing a Microsoft Account.

“Oh no problem, you just have to disable WiFi completely via the switch, otherwise it’ll complain that you need an internet connection, so then you need to try three times unsuccessfully on purpose and THEN it’ll let you make a local account.”

“Ok they don’t do that anymore, now you need to use a keyboard shortcut to open a CMD prompt, disable a service…”

It’s completely blunt anymore how Microsoft feels about customers: They think we’re stupid cattle they’ve been raising since the 90’s to “click OK” and make accounts for anything they want. I wish they weren’t so right…

Since then, I found terminal stuff to actually be fun and at least Linux feels like it’s MY machine, not like I paid $100+ for a license key to rent their software that always begs me for more and rats on me at every turn.

But yeah, “just switch” isn’t helping anyone. We need to guide and support more people into it

fishos ,
@fishos@lemmy.world avatar

Most people don’t care because most of your problems are all privacy related. And that’s what Linux people don’t seem to get. They rant and rave about how much better Linux is… for privacy. But the average Joe doesn’t know or care that data is being collected and for the most part it doesn’t affect them. It’s just some Boogeyman being thrown at them. What they care about is ease of use and convience. They don’t dig into those details because, for the most part, they’re not even aware.

When Linux people say it’s a “better experience”, they largely mean detailed customization and more privacy.

When Windows people say it’s a “better experience”, they mostly mean that it’s the same relatively easy to use experience on every device and it Just Works®.

They’re both right. But each side argues their side of the conversation not seeing that the other side has a perfectly justified use case for theirs. It’s like arguing that everyone should drive a van and not understanding why someone might not want one.

tabular ,
@tabular@lemmy.world avatar

Ask most people if they’re okay with the government installing cameras/microphones in their own home. If someone says they’re sincerely okay with that then hopefully we can agree there is a difference between having a preference and not understanding what is in their own best interests. I draw the line further; the same applies for privacy of your own computing.

TheFonz ,

Get AutoCAD on Linux and I’m there buddy. Some of us need to work.

Zetta ,

True, the biggest sore points of Linux is Windows software support. This probably won’t work for you because you seem to use AutoCAD for work, but for me I was able to just find alternatives to programs that were not available anymore when I switched to Linux.

TheFonz ,

For sure. I would love to ditch Autocad, but that would require me convincing my entire industry. I hate AutoCAD.

unionagainstdhmo ,
@unionagainstdhmo@aussie.zone avatar

Industry Standard software is just a fancy way of saying “Monopoly”

TheFonz ,

Sure, but it’s also not easy to pivot an entire workforce to a new software platform. I work in architecture and the industry on a whole runs on the smallest possible margins and is managed by boomers that can barely mark up a pdf.

MonkeMischief ,

…that can barely mark up a pdf.

This seems to suggest they can download, locate, possibly extract, and then open one.

I’m genuinely awe struck. Yours are practically self-reliant compared to ours! :(

ChaoticNeutralCzech ,

It’s OK if it’s FOSS. Imagine if Adobe Acrobat was FOSS and PDF was an open standard - it would have double the features and 10 times less suck.

unionagainstdhmo ,
@unionagainstdhmo@aussie.zone avatar

PDFs have been an open standard since 2008.

refurbishedrefurbisher ,

Autodesk is the only entity who would be able to do that, due to the code being proprietary.

Not impossible to happen, though. Autodesk already has Maya available for Linux.

Obviously there are alternatives like FreeCAD, but alternatives aren’t always an option.

Also, while AutoCAD might not work right now, WINE is getting better rapidly, and, while not guaranteed, it (along with Adobe programs) could theoretically work in the future without them needing to port the software. Of course, the companies porting the software would be the preferred solution here.

I’m personally not a fan of relying on proprietary technology for work, but most people are not in control of what their boss says they have to use, and the concept of proprietary “industry standards” continues to be a thing, partly due to lobbying and giving free copies to educators (Autodesk. Adobe, Apple, Google, and Microsoft are all very guilty of this). Unfortunately, I don’t see that changing soon.

TheFonz ,

I’m curious what their reason for porting Maya was? That’s really interesting.

refurbishedrefurbisher ,

Likely because of the use of Linux (and historically UNIX with SGI workstations) in Hollywood for CG artists.

Alborlin ,

Hell forget about AutoCAD, what about word and EXCEL. now you and Linux dudebros will tell me there are alternatives on Linux like libre office and what not. To them I say this

  1. Make a document in libreoffice , try to save it as docx and see what says libreoffice, or make a doc in word and adjust formatting, try to open same doc in libre office and see what shit show it becomes
  2. Hand down no body can beat ms excel, on multiple platforms, the versality is not just complex formulas but functions like xlookup, index match , combined with VBA scripting with formulas that can low-key fight python , power tables are unparalleled, if you can replicate these without A SINGLE COMMAND line input for dumb users like us That would the win.
refurbishedrefurbisher ,
  1. Blame Microsoft for not conforming to their own standard. There’s a reason the EU uses ODF instead of the mess that is OOXML. Different versions of MS Office aren’t even fully compatible with each other. Also nowadays, you can use Office 365 in a web browser. For desktop, there is LibreOffice and OnlyOffice, which have okay compatibility. MS Office can also open ODF files, as is legally mandated by the EU, since it would be considered anticompetative if they didn’t.
  2. I don’t use those functions of Excel, so I can’t comment. Also to be clear, are you asking if you can program without a Terminal? I’m not even sure what the question is. VBA is a proprietary Microsoft-specific scripting language, so of course there won’t be native support for that in non-Windows OSs, although there might be a reverse engineering effort I’m not familiar with.

Blaming Linux for a problem that Microsoft caused and won’t solve due to anticompetative practices is just dumb. Microsoft basically invented the concept of Embrace, Extend, extinguish, and Office is a prime example of that.

Engywuck , (edited )

People don’t switch just because of some minor inconvenience (as if Linux didn’t have any…) and outside of Lemmy/the Fediverse echo chamber very few people are concerned about privacy. They will switch (maybe) if the new tool works better for them than thge previous one. Otherwise, why should they bother? Linux is my primary OS since many years, but it isn’t everybody’s cup of tea.

whynotzoidberg ,

This echo chamber gets LOUD, too!

Contend6248 ,

I for one enjoy salty Microsoft tears, just makes me feel better with my choice completely ditching them.

Keep 'em coming.

AVincentInSpace ,

Literally what? I’m a Linux user bro

Contend6248 ,

It wasn’t directed to you, it is directed to people constantly crying about their choice

kronarbob ,

Maybe they are not Linux users, maybe they are Microsoft employees trying to keep you on Windows by making Linux users look obnoxious.

index ,

I’m gonna keep eating unhealthy food in large quantities, nobody should tell me what to do or what works for me…

Engywuck , (edited )

Hey, just keep doing whatever you want. Just rest assured that virtually everybody is going to plainly and silently ignore you.

Drummyralf ,

Exactly. As a musician many paid music plugins simply don’t work on Linux because of all the installers attached to them. Also, I design with the Adobe suite for my work, also not viable on Linux (I believe?). I would love to use Linux, but for my needs it’s simply a no go.This is what annoys me about all the “just use linux” comments. There are usecases where it’s simply not an option.

refurbishedrefurbisher ,

I’ve gotten every single Windows VST I’ve used working on Linux with WINE. Some of them require extra work (Serum and anything needing Native Access specifically), but they still work.

I’ve also tried both Ableton and FL Studio in WINE, and they both work fine as well.

Adobe suite is something I don’t have experience with, though.

GoOnASteamTrain ,

Ableton working in Wine you say…? Thank you for sharing, as that would be excellent to try! :)

refurbishedrefurbisher ,

Yeah. I’d still recommend Ableton users try out Bitwig, though, regardless of OS. It’s a fantastic DAW that also happens to have native Linux support.

But yeah, Ableton should work fine with WINE, along with your VSTs. Make sure you use WINEASIO along with JACK. Pipewire works, but I’ve notoced that it eats up more resources than just using JACK directly, similar to using ASIO in Windows.

GoOnASteamTrain ,

That’s awesome! Thank you for the rundown, I’ll save this comment for the day that I get to making the jump :) It might be a while until I can, but it would be nice to jump back over to the comfortable Linux environment again :)

refurbishedrefurbisher ,

No problem. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

Drummyralf ,

Hmm interesting. I’m a Cubase user with many steinberg plugins and some Arturia stuff. When I googled it, I didn’t seem to find much information about Linux support. But maybe I should give it a try. Thanks for sharing!

refurbishedrefurbisher ,

Can’t hurt! Might run into a speedbump or two where you have to do a DLL override or something, but you might get lucky and not have to do anything.

I haven’t tried Cubase, though.

GoOnASteamTrain , (edited )

Agreed, not just plugins its also Ableton Live for me! There is nothing that scratches that for me, bitwig does look promising eventually though. :)

Then on top of that wanting to develop games without learning another game engine (I’m far into a game, and can’t change engine without starting again)

And I wanna play Baldurs Gate 3 again dammit! (To be fair I think that might work and haven’t looked) :) .

I used Linux for 5 years and loved it, have a pi and a degoogled Foss phone as much as possible. I am an ally to it all, but have usecases which dictate Windows … I think it’s not unreasonable to want something to get better without binning 70℅ of why I use my computer. :)

Edit: I just learned this thread, wine might work with Ableton, this is great news :)

TwilightVulpine , (edited )

Just once I would love to open one of these threads without seeing people shitting… on Linux.

Linux is not even the one doing anything wrong but people gotta rag on whoever recommends it as an alternative. This is getting more annoying than however annoying they say Linux users are.

edit: Just to make clear because some folks aren’t getting it, this is not an invitation to argue about how you feel about Linux and Linux users. I. don’t. fucking. care. I don’t even use Linux. Take it to someone who cares.

SpaceCadet ,
@SpaceCadet@feddit.nl avatar

People be like:

https://feddit.nl/pictrs/image/489d27cf-0dfa-45ec-83b3-230455be3129.png

TwilightVulpine ,

tbf I get it. Sometimes you just want to be mad.

But like, it’s Microsoft’s fault.

refurbishedrefurbisher ,

Or Adobe, Autodesk, Nvidia, etc.

echodot ,

Your solution isn’t a solution though it’s like saying that the solution to drowning is to set yourself on fire. It’s just a different kind of problem.

SpaceCadet ,
@SpaceCadet@feddit.nl avatar

No it isn’t.

It’s more like saying: if that guy you hang out with keeps pushing you into the water and you almost drown every time, perhaps you should stop hanging out with that guy.

Of course, that’s not what people who are in an abusive relationship typically want to hear.

echodot ,

It’s hardly a big deal, none of what Microsoft has done is really that annoying. Individually they are barely even noteworthy.

Switching to Linux is a huge pain in the ass to have to go through so Microsoft would have to do something seriously messed up for me to even want to put up with it. I’m not assuming that I could find equivalent programs that even ran on Linux.

Rustmilian ,
@Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

Switching to Linux is a huge pain in the ass.

This is literally how MacOS and long time Linux users feel when switching to Windows.

BradleyUffner ,

And how many people are telling Linux users to switch to Windows?

Rustmilian ,
@Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

Not many, but you’d be surprised.

intensely_human ,

Yes, I would be very surprised.

SpaceCadet ,
@SpaceCadet@feddit.nl avatar

That’s exactly the kind of shit abused people say to justify staying with their abusive partner. (“Oh it’s not so bad” - she says with a black eye - “and he’s really sweet normally”)

Yes in the short term it can be painful to leave an abusive person you’ve come to depend upon, but in the long term it’s always the better solution.

ganoo ,
@ganoo@sh.itjust.works avatar

Literally abusive relationship cope. LMAO.

intensely_human ,

“He’s always ready with a life preserver and a towel though”

BradleyUffner ,

And in this case they aren’t even drowning. They have a slightly annoying icon in the corner of their screen.

mods_are_assholes , (edited )

Linux isn’t a solution if you play competitive multiplayer games, which most people do.

Edit: keep being classy basement trolls, you’re only proving my statements about the shittiness of the linux community with every downvote.

Rustmilian , (edited )
@Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

Fair, but also depends on which one’s.
~40-45% of them do actually work.

LainTrain ,

What??? Do you have a statistic on this like does most of the population of earth play call of street fortnite 20 or whatever “competitively”?

Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In ,

I think you are confusing “professionally” and “competitively”. Anyone playing to win is being competitive.

LainTrain ,

I don’t think that many people even play video games nevermind online ones nevermind competitive ones

truelist.co/blog/gaming-statistics

Like 41% which is more than I expected but only a tiny fraction of those use PCs

Rustmilian , (edited )
@Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

call of street fortnite 20

Is now permanently in my lexicon.

prole ,

Lol yeah “most people” definitely do not play competitive multiplayer games. Are the other children in your friend group literally the only other humans you’ve ever met?

CheesyFox ,

there are 3 billion people playing videogames, most of them playing casual af shit like candy crush (explodingtopics.com/blog/number-of-gamers).

About “competitive” multiplayer games: have you tried proton? I myself was sticking with Windows untill i eventually tried it.

Linux is not a solution if you have a skill issue. The longer people have this kind of mindset you have, the longer Microsoft will pretend to be a monopolist, the longer they will behave like total shitheads towards their customers.

btr_fan87 ,

Is proton also a work around for easy anti-cheat now?

CheesyFox ,

It literally is. Played Hunt: Showdown and Warthunder with no problems at all

iN8sWoRLd ,
@iN8sWoRLd@lemmy.world avatar

I’m upvoting you because I know what you’re trying to say. Personally I don’t have a lot of time to game anymore but I vote with my wallet and I try to only buy games on steam that are linux native. I have found a lot of great indy games this way and I don’t feel like I’m “missing out”. Still, I get it.

long_chicken_boat ,

“most people” = “most teens”. I don’t know any adult that plays competitive multiplayer games other than maybe CSGO.

caron ,

I am not sure if most people play competitive multiplayer games

intensely_human ,

Sounds like something a Bronze leaguer would say

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

which most people do.

Lolwhut?

Most people who play competitive multiplayer games (a minority of total users) do so on console

intensely_human ,

“But the controller is an inferior aiming device”

“Yeah and the foot is an inferior ball handling device, but soccer still exists as a game”

veniasilente ,

Care to cite sources for that? Haven’t seen people playing “competitive multiplayer games” from most people in a while, now.

intensely_human ,

You probably live in some weird outlier community. 88% of Americans are competitive gamers now.

mods_are_assholes ,

Fuck off sealion

veniasilente ,

Oh, are your gaming statistics hurt?

HKayn ,
@HKayn@dormi.zone avatar

“Hey I have a problem with my Samsung”

“Drop it and get an iPhone instead”

This is what you guys are like.

Rustmilian ,
@Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

iPhone is $999+, Linux is completely free.

capital ,

It’s funny this meme of iPhones being expensive is still a thing.

The cheapest one is under $450.

histic ,

why would anyone buy an even more pos phone. I had a 12 and 13 before my pixel there is nothing good about them, unless you are insecure about people’s thoughts on what color your msgs are. also you don’t need to copy and paste you comment on everyone’s damn comment no one give a fuck.

capital ,

You need to chill.

I responded to a grand total of 2 comments with the same sentiment but they were not copies of each other. The over the top aggressive response is completely unwarranted.

What’s more is that yours and my mom don’t need flagship phone performance and what you refer to as a “pos phone” would do just fine for the vast majority of people’s use cases without coming close to utilizing all available resources.

I’m correcting the evidently popular belief that iPhones are expensive. As it turns out, only the expensive ones are expensive. Imagine that.

Rustmilian ,
@Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

That’s still expensive compared to $0

SpaceCadet ,
@SpaceCadet@feddit.nl avatar

When people tell you to use Linux, they’re not telling you that to solve your immediate problem (e.g. your “show desktop” icon has been replaced with a different icon), but they are telling you to get out of your abusive relationship with Microsoft, because that is the real problem: Microsoft does not respect you, the end-user of their product, and this kind of abusive shit will keep happening for as long as you keep using Windows.

HKayn ,
@HKayn@dormi.zone avatar

they are telling you to get out of your abusive relationship with Microsoft

And how well has that worked so far?

SpaceCadet ,
@SpaceCadet@feddit.nl avatar

For people like me who took that advice: pretty damn great actually, thanks for asking!

HKayn ,
@HKayn@dormi.zone avatar

How many people have you managed to convert in this thread?

SpaceCadet ,
@SpaceCadet@feddit.nl avatar

Even if it’s only one, I will have helped one person, unlike you who has only been bitching and moaning.

HKayn ,
@HKayn@dormi.zone avatar

If that’s what you think will improve how the Linux community is perceived, then do go on.

SpaceCadet ,
@SpaceCadet@feddit.nl avatar

This may sound strange to you, but I actually don’t give a single fuck about how you perceive things.

HKayn ,
@HKayn@dormi.zone avatar

Oh I wasn’t talking about me.

SpaceCadet ,
@SpaceCadet@feddit.nl avatar

Yes you were sweetie.

squidspinachfootball ,

I keep seeing this, and yes, it’s running the image of the Linux community. Even for me who’s part of it.

“Help, Windows problem.”

“Linux is the answer.”

“But I want to use Windows.”

“Then you’re a stupid ingrate who’s below me and deserve nothing good in your life.”

Do you hear yourselves? I’m exaggerating, but come on guys. You’re better than this, good grief.

Zetta ,

Me! Switched to fedora from Windows about 3 years ago and don’t regret it one bit. Probably the best decision I’ve made in regards to personal computing in my adult life.

HKayn ,
@HKayn@dormi.zone avatar

If you switched 3 years ago, you haven’t been converted in this very thread.

knexcar ,

Did Lemmy even exist 3 years ago? I thought the Lemmy migration was only last summer.

bigMouthCommie ,
@bigMouthCommie@mastodon.social avatar

it has existed for many years but it wasn't much fun til it hit a critical mass of users

bigMouthCommie ,
@bigMouthCommie@mastodon.social avatar

https://lemmy.ml/u/dessalines

lead dev

refurbishedrefurbisher ,

Yeah, since 2019

Rustmilian , (edited )
@Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

I’m actually helping someone from this convert rn.

Mikina ,

I did switch around a month ago due to a thread similar to this, and I have booted windows like twice since then, and im really glad I made the switch. So, yes, threads like this did help me, while also providing good starting tips.

aStonedSanta ,

Who asked you for help with our relationship? I believe someone complained about a random feature change. And here you are. Telling everyone to just fuck off and switch completely. It’s insane.

SpaceCadet ,
@SpaceCadet@feddit.nl avatar

JFC people like you … You have like the worst case of Stockholm syndrome I’ve ever seen. I swear the only reason you are getting so angry and defensive when people recommend Linux is because deep down you know they’re speaking the truth.

aStonedSanta ,

No. It’s annoying being told the only solution is to throw everything out the window and start over. No stockholm syndrome I run a Ubuntu server and ran arch when I was 14. Fuck off with your stupid takes and offer a real solution to the problem.

SpaceCadet ,
@SpaceCadet@feddit.nl avatar

Fuck off with your stupid takes

Yeah, real mature take you have there buddy.

offer a real solution to the problem.

“My husband always beats me when he is drunk. Don’t tell me to leave him, just tell me how I get him to stop beating me”

^ This is you basically.

aStonedSanta ,

No. That is your perspective to a situation. That is not fact. Stop valueing your own voice so highly. You start to forget you can be wrong.

SpaceCadet ,
@SpaceCadet@feddit.nl avatar

Listen, if you don’t like what I have to say, don’t read my comments, block me or stop replying or something, but I’m not going to shut myself up to please some random twerp like you.

squidspinachfootball ,

Listen I’m all for Linux and use it myself, but this is not the way to get people to switch. Even I’m starting to get annoyed by all the answers in these threads being “Just switch to Linux, there are definitely no problems and it’s a 1:1 workflow.” (Yes, hyperbole. But you get the idea.) If a user has an issue and does not want, or cannot, switch to Linux, then Linux is not the solution.

You’re not wrong. They’re still stuck in the “abusive relationship” with MS. In fact you’re absolutely right. But trying to push Linux onto these people like this only results in their view of Linux getting worse, and makes them more likely to stay on Windows to avoid the insufferable Linux users. It’s coming from a good place, but it’s honestly not helping. Every solution needs to consider the user’s use case and their parameters, or else it doesn’t matter. In the end what you’re saying is not wrong at all, but you’re still not offering the right solution.

aStonedSanta ,

Exactly. The only abusive relationship is their view towards users who will not accept their solution as gospel.

smileyhead ,

I have a way for you both:

Give two solutions, one short-term and second long-term.

SpaceCadet , (edited )
@SpaceCadet@feddit.nl avatar

I’m not a Windows user, and certainly not a Windows expert. Why should I have to provide solutions to Windows problems? I use Linux so that I don’t have to bother with that shit.

smileyhead ,

Then don’t bother and don’t give a solution. Or at least say “I don’t know if there is a short-term solution in a form of simple switch, but I know if we switch from Windows in long-term there won’t br such problems ever again”.

SpaceCadet ,
@SpaceCadet@feddit.nl avatar

Again, I’m not going to silence or censor myself for some random internet bully like you. Who the fuck are you to say what kind of advise I can and cannot give? Get lost.

smileyhead ,

You’re right, sorry for that. This is what I would give as an advice, you can give whatever advice you like, I shouldn’t write this in such imperative form.

SpaceCadet ,
@SpaceCadet@feddit.nl avatar

Well even so you’re barking up the wrong tree. Read my comment history: I never gave anyone the personal advise to switch to Linux, because honestly I don’t care about what anyone uses, and frankly I dislike Windows users coming over to Linux forums expecting everything to be the same as Windows under a different name and complaining when it isn’t. I was merely explaining why people are giving that advise.

prole ,

Nah, I switched to Linux last year and it cost me $0. No new hardware needed. So not a good metaphor.

HKayn ,
@HKayn@dormi.zone avatar

You misunderstood what the metaphor was.

prole ,

Are iPhones free now?

Trainguyrom ,

More like:

“Hey I have a problem with my Samsung”

“Here’s a custom ROM you can install instead” (but also glosses over a lot of the finer decisions that go into whether or not to choose to run a custom ROM)

long_chicken_boat ,

you don’t have to pay for a +1000$ device to switch to Linux. In most cases, you can just install it in the same machine you have Windows.

It’s more like replacing Samsung’s Android ROM with a custom ROM. Sure, you’ll have to learn new things to use it, but you don’t have to buy an iPhone.

capital ,

I get what you’re saying but I just want to point out that the lowest cost iPhone is under $450.

Rustmilian ,
@Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

I’d argue that’s still not a very good comparison, because for ROMs you have to go through the trouble of researching the specific method for your phone brand, model, & firmware version, learning adb, unlocking the bootloader, flashing a custom recovery, then from there you can install a custom ROM. Then if you fuck up you have to figure out how to debrick the device.
While Linux(user friendly distros specifically) is just burning an ISO to a USB, possibly changing 1 or 2 settings in the BIOS & booting from that USB, then just clicking through a graphical installer like calamares.
The barrier to entry is drastically smaller.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

It does sometimes feel like a guy with face scars from an exploded Samsung reaching for another Samsung while saying “I hope they’ve made improvements”

veniasilente ,

Lol you wish Linux was an equivalent to an iPhone in this analogy. Pretty analogy from you.

BradleyUffner ,

I don’t think this meme applies here. The person who’s mad isn’t the one using Windows. They got mad about a “problem” someone else was having and decided to use it as an excuse to push Linux.

aStonedSanta ,

Exactly. The Linux bros are not offering a solution. They are the same people as the “just move” people. Annoying ass trolls.

Kyatto ,
@Kyatto@leminal.space avatar

But moving costs money, switching to linux costs nothing (if you have free cloud storage or a second drive to backup and migrate important data, even then you could get one of those for cheap or free depending on your needs), and with how linux is these days there are distros that are as plug and play as windows for basic tasks that most people do, and a welcoming community and infinite resources to make learning curves small if you want to take on something more advanced. Further than that Linux can be more friendly, allowing easy configuration and GUIs to do things that would require “hacking” to do on windows or third party bloated applications.

I’m on a more advanced distro, but it’s basically easy-mode arch skipping the technical set up stage, and honestly it is not hard to pick up at all, if I did what I did on windows my experience would be roughly the same except I designed my own task bar set up and my PC has been running quieter and more efficiently, everything past that is me tailoring my experience past what a normal user would do.

I tried linux a decade ago and it was sluggish in the UI and didn’t have support for a lot of things but these days it feels 99% to what windows is for me with some extras. It’s time to switch for people on the fence, especially with the rapid enshittification of things.

knexcar ,

I think the hurdle isn’t money but time, and yes it takes quite a bit of time to learn a new OS, figure out why your graphics card is running so slow, move your files to an external drive and back, find alternatives to the programs you use and learn their quirks and missing features, learn the difference between apt-get and snap and flatpak when programs only support one, figure out what a .tar.gz file is and how to install one (what was that chain of commands with “sudo make” in it), find tweaks and workarounds to get certain games working in Proton, and do that all again if you don’t like the distro (because Linux users love suggesting new distros)

Kyatto ,
@Kyatto@leminal.space avatar

You are totally right about the time, I agree with you there, it did take some time for me to make sure I was ready for an install but once I got it it went super quick and I haven’t had any issues with graphics even though I’m using nvidia. As for the terminal, I’m probably an outlier but I’m totally fine with that and I do have some previous experience from when I was younger messing around in ubuntu that made it easier now even though I’m on a much different distro.

CustodialTeapot ,

I rarely see that,. But what I see all the time is Linux lovers being toxic fanboys trying to shove their “passion” down everyone’s throat. Also, 99% of them being wrong about what it can “offer”.

Its a pure superiority complex fanbase.

TwilightVulpine ,

Complaining about Linux and Linux users happens in every Windows-related thread, and you are doing it right now.

As a slight aside I am also sooo tired of people calling talking about something “shoving down our throats”. People talking about someone you don’t care for is not physically assaulting you. That expression seems to exist solely for people to wind themselves up over stuff that absolutely doesn’t justify that level of outrage.

wizardbeard ,

It’s shoving down throats when Linux is brought up in every single Windows discussion. The complaints about Linux are in response to Linux users never being able to just let it lie, people aren’t just bitching in a void.

This is absolutely not people being mad for people just talking about something. I have an extremely hard time believing you truly believe that is the issue here.

There are countless places to discuss Linux without bringing it into the comments of every Windows post. Windows users are not commenting on every post in the Linux communities about how much more straightforward running Windows is.

It would be like vegan eaters commenting about how good it is to be vegan on every post in food communities that features non-vegan food.

Lucidlethargy ,

Lol this is a thread that was started because of a minor cosmetic windows issue, where the proposed solution in the original post is to switch to Linux.

It’s Linux users shitting on Windows to begin with… With the response being essentially “Linux doesn’t meet my needs”.

I used to think evangelicals were bad, but this is a whole new level…

Chakravanti ,

Fanbase because the philosophy is based on owning your computer. If some asshole you don’t know needs your trust to run their closed-source-no-one-really-knows-what-it-actually does inside what is no longer really your computer just because you paid for it then here…here’s a dum-dum. Hands you a sucker.

mriormro ,
@mriormro@lemmy.world avatar

‘Just switch to Linux’ isn’t a solution to a problem. It’s a tired and lazy ass response that is frankly starting to make me dislike this place.

TwilightVulpine ,

How much more practical it is to complain about users of a different system than the one the thread is about? It got to a point people are doing this preemptively even.

shiftymccool ,

When “this lemon is too sour” is the problem, maybe “here, try this orange” is the solution. Can you imagine responding like “No! People are always talking about oranges! I’m sick of it and won’t try one!” Ridiculous…

knexcar ,

Trying an orange is a lot easier than creating a boot USB, copying all your files over to an external hard drive, installing a new OS, fixing weird things like the graphics card having crap performance or the laptop screen brightness not dimming, learning the weird 3 letter file structure, being bogged down by apt-get vs snaps vs flatpak and adding repos (why not search and download an .exe like a normal OS), realizing that your more specialized programs don’t work, etc.

Besides, it’s not just ONE person, seeming everyone says it every time a lemon has a scratch or a blemish or too many seeds. And then they dramatize it by calling it an “abusive relationship”.

aStonedSanta ,

Yup. I’m about over lemmy cause of this shit. Linux bros are worse than vegans.

knexcar , (edited )

Agreed, just glance at the linked Reddit thread and it’s refreshing how little Linux is mentioned. I’m really tired of seeing it (and related FOSS circlejerking) on every vaguely related Lemmy thread and I suspect that’s where most of the “Linux bashing” is coming from, we’re just sick of it.

AzureRT ,
@AzureRT@reddthat.com avatar

“or the screen brightness not dimming”

This. Have this issue on my laptop, tried to fix it, didn’t work. Not gonna bother with Linux now when I’ve had this issue happen to me both on said laptop and my desktop

I can see the appeal in Linux and wouldn’t mind continuing to use it, but I will stick with Windows because I am more familiar with it and because I play games that can only run on it (Not saying this part to you but just in general)

FoxBJK ,
@FoxBJK@midwest.social avatar

OK well if you’re looking for the actual solution to the problem brought up in this thread… here: i.imgur.com/nHEcFG2r.png

MonkeMischief ,

I mean “Just fix Microsoft and change its direction to be less consistently hostile and disrespectful of users” is a solution…

“Put an end to the data and attention harvesting economy” is another.

…but…switching OSs was easier for me personally, until we figure out how to wrangle a tech behemoth or fix underlying problems with human civilization.

echodot ,

As is everyone taking every possible opportunity to mention Linux. It’s not like we don’t know it exists, we don’t need constantly reminding that it’s an option.

Although it isn’t an option for a vast number of reasons, but mostly because corporate IT requires systems that run only on Windows. Therefore the only solution is Windows so the fact another operating system exists is utterly irrelevant and yet somehow you guys constantly keep mentioning it. Then we constantly have to point out that lots and lots of programs don’t run on Linux and then you will inhibitively start going on about Wine. It’s tiring. I would love it if we could have a conversation about Microsoft without having to pretend that other operating systems are viable alternatives.

TwilightVulpine ,

If Linux is not for you that’s understandable. The thing here is that they are not having a conversation about Microsoft. They are having the pettiest, least technical possible discussion about Linux, it’s devolving to pure clique shit talking.

If you want to talk about Microsoft, just talk about Microsoft.

HKayn ,
@HKayn@dormi.zone avatar

Problem is, whenever you try taking about Microsoft, someone just has to interject and be like “yeah you should be using Linux instead”

Rustmilian ,
@Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

Then stop talking about Microsoft

https://media.tenor.com/aQ41XW_L7AEAAAAM/bee-surprised.gif

/s

voodooattack ,

I’d just like to interject for a moment…

intensely_human ,

And whenever someone mentions Linux, we have to take up 75% of the thread responding to it.

Rustmilian ,
@Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

That’s actually hilarious.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

The Microsoft company is not happy with me–that’s okay, I’ll still keep downloading patches for that garbage.

Alborlin ,

Or how about

  1. You can’t easily define what apps start with startup
  2. Even when wine is installed , lot of programs won’t run in wine
  3. You cannot easily find where the program is installed like you can in windows
  4. You attach a external disk but some apps won’t see it mounted making it Impossible to explore in their file picker , not all but some
  5. There is almost huge lack of programs , for which there is huge possibility that a windows program exists.
  6. There is constant need to use terminal for lot of things for which you can’t a program see point 4.

I keep telling Linux is still not for common home use for users who are in between power users and people only using it for browsing. This will get me downvotes here on Lemmy all the time . Linux edge lords are their own bubble.

icedterminal ,

All but one of your points here appear to be your lack of understanding Linux and/or user error. Point 4 (2) is understandable due to Windows just being the default and most popular choice.

aStonedSanta ,

And that’s exactly the fucking point. It’s a terrible idea to tell people to switch. Cause they don’t understand it.

icedterminal ,

That’s not a very strong argument.

When you started a job, did you understand it all? When you first started using Windows, Android or iOS, did you understand it all? No you didn’t. As with anything you’ve never used or done before, you won’t understand the ins and outs or know what to do in many situations. You learn about them. I certainly didn’t know much about Linux when I started using it. In an IT environment, I had to learn. I work with Windows and Linux on a daily basis. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. I use both on my personal devices.

aStonedSanta ,

No. But starting a job pays me. Changing OS over a minor feature is a completely insane waste of my time. You are aware of the context of this post right??

HowManyNimons ,

You wanna know what my job pays me to do? Create and edit Visual Studio solutions. Checkmate atheists.

SpaceCadet ,
@SpaceCadet@feddit.nl avatar

Even point 4 is something I have never experienced, and is probably also lack of understanding.

A filesystem is either mounted or it isn’t. Mounted for one program but not for another doesn’t exist. If they don’t see it in the filepicker, they probably just don’t know the mount point.

icedterminal ,

Point 4 is listed twice in the comment. So I used “4 (2)” to point out what I was responding to. The second point 4.

unionagainstdhmo ,
@unionagainstdhmo@aussie.zone avatar
  1. You can’t easily define what apps start with startup

https://aussie.zone/pictrs/image/f8537785-ff20-4bd4-8952-27893b4867f8.png

For point 2, that is true and improving. Always do some research about program compatibility before completely changing your computer’s OS.

For point 3. Programs are generally installed in /usr/bin and ~/.var/app for Flatpaks (analogous to MS Store). Much easier than finding where MS store apps are installed.

Never come across point 4, so I can’t dismiss it.

  1. As with 2, depends on your usecase
  2. GNOME Disk manager (comes with Fedora and Ubuntu) has options to mount drives to arbitrary locations if needed.

I understand your argument but making points like these don’t really contribute to the discussion.

Harbinger01173430 ,

Why is micro shit even the first choice? Go ChromeOS or something cool. Smh

FoxBJK ,
@FoxBJK@midwest.social avatar

Because MS puts work into backwards compatibility, so the business who paid someone to write an app for them 30 years ago can still use it today on a Win11 box. No shot of that happening on macOS, who has deprecated PowerPC and 32-bit support, and Linux is just too much of a wildcard.

mods_are_assholes ,

Fuck linux, the’ve had 30 years to make a consumer grade product but NoooOOooo all the devs spend their energy making 50 different weakly compatible distros that no one needs.

I’ll say it again, fuck linux. Fuck linux and its shitty community of elitist basement trolls.

Twitches ,

Maybe the mods wouldn’t be an asshole to you if you didn’t act like one yourself

mods_are_assholes ,

They started it, and I’m not backing down.

veniasilente ,

Are you ok?

mods_are_assholes ,

No one appreciates concern trolling

HKayn ,
@HKayn@dormi.zone avatar

Just once I would love to open one of these threads without seeing people spam “USE LINOOX INSTEAD!”

smileyhead ,
  • Switched to Linux years ago
  • Sometimes I need to help a friend or do professional work for someone else’s komputer
  • I am annoyed about some stupid Windows thing I have to deal with
  • People tell me to switch to Linux
HKayn ,
@HKayn@dormi.zone avatar

But Linux can do everything that Windows can!!! :)))) /s

BradleyUffner ,

Well maybe stop suggesting that the solution to every tiny little cosmetic inconvenience is to completely switch operating systems to one that has notoriously flakey hardware support.

thedeadwalking4242 ,

Ah yes notoriously flakey hardware support. Like Microsoft doesn’t used it to power their entire cloud platform. The hardware support argument is dying tbh used to be true about 20 years ago

BradleyUffner ,

Nope, still true of the last time I tried Linux last year. The sound system stopped working after every reboot, and clicking the distro’s built-in update button completely trashed the system.

But it doesn’t have an AI button in the corner, so I guess that solves my problem!

voodooattack ,

Maybe try another distro?

Also I’m curious. What distro were you testing with?

BradleyUffner ,

The last time I tested the waters it was with Debian, Mint, and Ubuntu. Each one had some kind of issue on my system that made me give up.

I usually check in once a year or so to see if things have improved.

unionagainstdhmo ,
@unionagainstdhmo@aussie.zone avatar

That’s really weird. What kind of hardware have you got?

BradleyUffner ,

It’s nothing crazy. All built within the last 3 years. I know the biggest issue is caused by having an Nvidia card. I can get the exact specs for you once I get home.

unionagainstdhmo ,
@unionagainstdhmo@aussie.zone avatar

That is odd. I’ve been using NVIDIA and haven’t really had any issues apart from just installing the proprietary driver through the package manager. People like to make out that NVIDIA is really bad on Linux, but lately it’s been pretty good. My Quadro ~10 year old Quadro M2000 is still supported by the latest driver. Same cannot be said for more recent AMD APUs (looking at you Vega 10).

Maybe next time you try Linux try Fedora since it has more recent drivers, etc. Just make sure you follow the instructions to install the NVIDIA proprietary drivers from RPMFusion. rpmfusion.org/Howto/NVIDIA

Otherwise PopOS is apparently good since it bundles the NVIDIA driver with the iso. It’s just been a bit buggy in my experience.

voodooattack ,

These are all Debian based. Debian is notorious for using old kernels and spotty hardware support. I had similar issues trying to install Ubuntu on a new-ish PC recently. Fedora worked like a charm though.

I was tempted to try Nobara since it was a gaming pc but I was discouraged by opinions from the community telling me it was not exactly the best idea.

Next time I might go for Bluefin though. It’s based on Fedora Silverblue (immutable OS) and I’ve heard great things about it. Apparently also has GPU drivers for NVIDIA baked-in, which I need.

BradleyUffner ,

Sounds interesting enough to give it another shot when I have some time.

MonkeMischief ,

If it helps, I’ve been running OpenSUSE Tumbleweed on my main 3D/gamedev production rig for a while. Yes, using NVIDIA too!

It’s a “rolling release”, so it’s cutting edge with supported hardware and all the software updates. It’s surprisingly stable because of the automated testing they run through.

I’ve had bad updates before, BUT, if you install your system using the BTRFS file system (default), you get something called Snapper that works similar to “Windows System Restore”. You can just roll back to a previous snapshot and either re-update or wait until things are more stable.

Nvidia has proprietary drivers for OpenSUSE as well, and since I’ve used those, I haven’t had very many problems.

The biggest issue I have is that my machine has trouble waking from suspend. It’s a tricky one to nail down, from what I understand.

Multiple monitors with different refresh rates is iffy, but I disabled “Kscreen” and have had no problems. (Don’t worry about this but wanted to mention it just in case)

KDE is pretty neat and I felt at home coming from Win10. Now I only dual boot into Win10 for occasional games. I’m not touching Win11 at all, so I’ll migrate my games over once 10 is no longer viable to hang on to.

Lastly, the community is really helpful and kind. They’ve helped me out a lot and I’ve learned a ton. Maybe I’m a nerd but I found “computing” to be a lot more fun on Linux. The biggest hazard being getting distracted cozying up your computer instead of whatever you signed on to do.

Sorry for the long post, but hope you might find it useful. :)

aStonedSanta ,

Maybe suggest a solution instead of a fucking entire new OS. It’s like the “just move” people.

MonkeMischief ,

I think the problem here is that a majority of the power to change lies in Microsoft’s hands. It’s their OS, and there’s not a whole ton we can do to halt their constant, greedy arrogance.

So, switching to Linux isn’t the easiest “solve all your problems” solution, but in the long run it simply removes a lot of stress of constantly wondering what stupidity Microsoft is going to force on you next because they “know better” and figuring out how to counter it with some hacky fix. (But also knowing no matter how hard you try, the thing is built to profit off of you.)

If somehow we could make Windows feel like it was OURS instead of THEIRS again, I’m sure people would be all for it.

Zetta ,

I would say “notoriously flakey hardware support” is a false statement these days

BradleyUffner ,

Nope, still true of the last time I tried Linux last year. The sound system stopped working after every reboot, and clicking the distro’s built-in update button completely trashed the system.

But it doesn’t have an AI button in the corner, so I guess that solves my problem!

aStonedSanta ,

Nope. And that’s the problem and why people like us tell the Linux fan boys to fuck off.

Zetta ,

¯_(ツ)_/¯ Well in my personal experience it has been rock solid

Hamartiogonic ,
@Hamartiogonic@sopuli.xyz avatar

I guess people downvoting you are thinking of Brother printers, AMD graphics cards and Intel WiFi cards. Sure, it’s great when you have the right hardware, but what if you don’t. I’ve banged my head against Optimus and Broadcom, until I learned to be extra picky when buying a laptop.

Lucidlethargy ,

Lol holy persecution complex, batman… This is a thread shitting on Windows.

TwilightVulpine ,

You’d think but here we have your annoying ass throwing insults at someone you think uses Linux.

uSpetzWon ,

It happens because Linux users are like vegans. They can’t shut up about it. And they don’t realize that using Linux doesn’t make them special or a member of some cool club nor does it mean that they have any friends.

SparrowRanjitScaur ,

I love Linux, but it’s extremely annoying how many threads there are showing a mildly annoying and optional feature in Windows with 10 people replying “Use Linux!”. As if Linux doesn’t have a ridiculous number of UX problems itself.

merdaverse ,

Wow, Microsoft are always so innovative! I never thought that the Win11 taskbar could get any shittier, but somehow they managed it. It’s great to see those thousands of engineers being put to good use.

realitista ,
@realitista@lemmy.world avatar

Install this. You will thank me later.

Hadriscus , (edited )

If it’s not a link to an Ubuntu LiveCD, I’m leaving Lemmy

Come on people I’m joking. You can unclench your butthills

kalpol ,

Ditch Ubuntu too. Mint or OpenSuse are very good alternatives.

WeirdGoesPro ,
@WeirdGoesPro@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Not to mention sweet mother Debian.

Dra ,

Ubuntu server is fine relax

rolaulten ,

With how they keep shoving snaps at everyone? At my work a migration to Debian is starting to be openly pondered.

bigMouthCommie ,
@bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

gnome is pushing flatpacks. the official gnome distro is immutable.

i like debian. i like gnome. i don't like this trend.

rolaulten ,

I almost never interact with desktop Linux. That’s a horrifying trend.

lorty ,
@lorty@lemmy.ml avatar

We do not talk about ubuntu here

Orionza ,
@Orionza@lemmy.world avatar

Thanks. My win11 install is coming up. Looks like I may need this. Bookmarked

realitista ,
@realitista@lemmy.world avatar

It has had such a massive positive effect on my life relative to the price.

ChaoticNeutralCzech ,

There are more ways to make Windows suck less, even open source ones: feddit.de/comment/7447632 Of course, pick whatever is best for you, but FOSS is ultimately safer (and free!).

w2tpmf ,

Purchase licence key

No, thanks.

farngis_mcgiles ,

its very reasonable

MDKAOD ,

… Coffee costs more than this license.

realitista ,
@realitista@lemmy.world avatar

There are free OS alternatives out there (which I suspect you already use but just want to poop on other’s parade).

I assume that if someone’s already using Windows, a paid OS, they are willing to pay $2 to make it usable.

histic ,

idk who pays for windows these days but go you

BombOmOm ,
@BombOmOm@lemmy.world avatar

Almost everyone pays for Windows. Notice how computers that let you not include it in the order get cheaper.

histic ,

not everyone buys prebuilts but I haven’t had any actual windows license since like windows 7 I just use a random key off a PC work is throwing out oh just don’t register the shit

ChaoticNeutralCzech ,

I prefer if persistent, high-permission code running on my machine is FOSS, and support the devs if I see it’s useful

realitista ,
@realitista@lemmy.world avatar

I prefer it too, but if something works well and saves me time and effort for $2, I don’t make a big deal out of it. I also need to accomplish things other than monkeying around with my computer.

AtariDump ,

Open shell?

w2tpmf ,

This is the way.

AtariDump ,

This is the way

captainlezbian ,

deleted_by_author

    •
    realitista ,
    @realitista@lemmy.world avatar

    I’ve used them all (probably 20+ different OS’ in my lifetime), and they all have a place. I use Windows, MacOS, and Linux daily, each for what they are good at. Maybe people should use what works best for them?

    histic ,

    classic shell does the same thing for free I’ll pass

    ChaoticNeutralCzech ,

    Not open source. Use:

    • Open Shell
      • brings a normal Start Menu back as well as an optional taskbar in Explorer
    • Explorer Patcher
      • revives Explorer’s “commented-out code”, bringing back functionality from previous Windows versions: optionally translucent taskbar without blur, seconds display in calendar popup, optionally the weather widget and many many more
    • CTT winutil
      • installs/updates various free programs for you with one click, one-stop-shop for all kinds of recommended debloat/freedom settings
    • MSEdge Redirect
      • self-explanatory: all Bing queries from within the OS apps go to your preferred search engine & default browser instead
    merdaverse ,

    I did one better. I installed Linux

    realitista ,
    @realitista@lemmy.world avatar

    Goody for you

    Breve ,

    Everyone: Don’t say anything sensitive or personal to an AI because it could end up in training data!

    Microsoft: We’re making it easier to feed everything you do on your computer to an AI from notepad to your desktop!

    [thisisfine.jpg]

    ohlaph ,

    omgrightquestionmark.svg

    USSEthernet ,

    Notepad++

    Even reads and formats/highlights code

    drengbarazi ,
    @drengbarazi@lemmy.world avatar

    I mean, it doesn’t matter what you use when the operating system already comes with a built-in keylogger enabled by default.

    ElcaineVolta ,
    @ElcaineVolta@kbin.social avatar

    just switched to Linux for the first time this week!

    Rustmilian ,
    @Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

    I’ll happily help you if needed. Hmu.

    Kbobabob ,

    This is the problem with Linux. People that know how to use a PC and are not tech illiterate still can’t use it very well. Just the fact that you offered means you know they are probably having some issues.

    JCreazy ,

    I know how to use a PC and I am tech literate and I can use Linux just fine so I don’t get what your point is.

    Kbobabob ,

    There a reason memes like this exist.

    JCreazy ,

    And those memes are hilarious

    Kbobabob ,

    I’ve never claimed otherwise. I enjoy a good meme.

    The_v ,

    I have used Linux off and on for almost 20 years.

    I install it, see if I can do everything I want.

    Get lost in terminal hell.

    Give up and uninstall it.

    Until I can browse to a webpage, download a program and click on an icon and have it install and work, the OS is shit for the general user. It’s not that fucking difficult of a concept.

    JCreazy ,

    You’re right. It’s not that difficult of a concept and luckily Linux works just like that. I will admit that Linux wasn’t always user friendly but it’s made leaps and bounds in that department. A bit less than a year ago, I decided one day to wipe my SSD completely and install Linux and I’ve been using it ever since. I’m doing everything I was doing for. Obviously this is going to depend on your specific needs but for me it’s been just fine.

    The_v ,

    No it doesn’t.

    My last attempt was six months ago. Still had a few key programs in a tarball. Dow

    Then there’s always the random hardware incompatibility. This last attempt it decided to flip the screen upside down on my laptop screen. Fun times…

    It’s come a long way, but for the average user, it’s not anywhere near polished enough.

    RmDebArc_5 ,
    @RmDebArc_5@lemmy.ml avatar

    What kind of software do you use? I have never needed to install a tarball. Flipping the screen upside down seems like a very easily fixable problem compared to some of the stuff windows throws at you

    JCreazy ,

    I’m curious what distros you have tried.

    julianh ,

    I mean, for most distros you should be about to install and use the OS without touching the terminal. Yeah, you may want to use it for some things (idk what you were trying to do) but it’s kind of the same thing in Windows with registry edits and such. It’s a tool and if you don’t know how to use it, you’re probably gonna get lost.

    Also how is it easier to go to a webpage to download an installer instead of using a store? Even microsoft is trying to move in that direction.

    I don’t want to say your experience is invalid because I definitely think Linux can improve in terms of user experience. But it’s not very helpful to just complain about stuff vaguely.

    Cethin ,

    The issue you’re having is it sounds like you don’t understand package managers. On your phone you go through the Play store or Apple store, and they manage your apps and keep them updated. It’s the same for Linux. You download and install things through the package manager (using the terminal or through the Discover application, assuming your distro has that). On Windows you go to a website and download an application, and that application has to keep track of updating itself. It has to check online for updates every time it launches and then ask you to download and install it then. Package managers are much more convenient. It may take a minute to get used to, but it’s better once you do.

    refurbishedrefurbisher , (edited )

    Yeah. People new to computers in general have an easier time using Linux than Windows power users, because the latter expects the same experience as Windows when they are using an entirely different OS.

    Then, when something Windows-esque doesn’t work (like downloading software from a website), they blame Linux instead of their method.

    Rustmilian , (edited )
    @Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

    This is the problem with Windows. People that know how to use a PC and are not tech illiterate still can’t use it very well.

    The_v ,

    That’s not a problem with windows it’s a feature. Even the barely tech literate people can use it to bumble their way through to get the job done, eventually.

    They don’t use it well but they still use it. They also rarely break it anymore.

    Those of us who worked with these people with win 98 and XP… Shudder. They ways they screwed up the system was truly remarkable at times.

    hightrix ,

    I’m extremely technically literate, build my own PCs and write my own software tools.

    I don’t use Linux at home because I don’t want to fiddle. I want to sit down, open steam, and play a game.

    I use Linux for many things, but my personal computer uses windows because it just works all the time.

    Kbobabob ,

    I’m sorry all of the Linux fan boys don’t like your comment. My main is Windows and my other PC is a Linux box.

    hightrix ,

    This place is a massive echo chamber. Votes don’t matter

    The_v ,

    Pointing out significant flaws that are holding the systems adoption rate back is never popular. Most of them are very techy and don’t have a clue what the average user needs. It’s a great way to get them all riled up.

    I spent a few years as a process flow and bug finder for some programmers building a proprietary internal system. Then I trained non-tech savvy people on how to use the system. One of the most difficult jobs I have ever done. Bridging the gap between the two of them was brutal.

    Rustmilian ,
    @Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

    I want to sit down, open steam, and play a game.

    bruh

    macattack ,

    There are dozens of us, dozens!

    Liz ,

    Twitter sent me to Mastodon. Reddit sent me to Lemmy. Windows has sent me to Linux. These things are basically promoting the better versions of themselves by becoming shittier versions of themselves.

    puppy ,

    Same here. But I had always been on Linux since I was a kid because Ubuntu (Gnome 2 days) was very pretty compared to Windows XP to me.

    Artyom ,

    One of us! One of us! One of us!

    Kbobabob ,

    How much searching did you have to do? Be honest. Ever try to mount a network share permanently yet?

    Rustmilian ,
    @Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_author

    •
    Kbobabob ,

    I didn’t realize that was in every distro

    Rustmilian ,
    @Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

    It will be once I infiltrate all 9billion distros.

    Kbobabob ,

    Gogogo

    Fal ,
    @Fal@yiffit.net avatar

    Literally every distro has dolphin in the repos

    Kbobabob ,

    I was like wait they aren’t all already installed by default, then I realized you confirmed it.

    Fal ,
    @Fal@yiffit.net avatar

    It’s not automatically installed on gnome, because gnome sucks. But any KDE distro will have it, and any distro ever will have it in the repos

    Allero ,

    As someone on Manjaro for over a year, I did have a few searches, but they were rare and mostly related to obscure things I needed.

    Not even close to the “search a fix every 10 minutes” experience I was promised.

    puppy , (edited )

    No searching at all. I got a new computer last month.

    1. Install open-ssh server on the old computer
    2. Copy the IP address of the old computer
    3. Paste it into Dolphin
    4. Copy paste everything
    Kbobabob ,

    And how would a new user know to find this specific app in the repo? Have you ever actually searched “how to permanently mount a network dive in Linux”? I didn’t see a single one saying dolphin.

    puppy ,

    I don’t know how to mount a network drive in Windows. So what’s your point?

    btw I just searched how to do it in KDE. First result is a Reddit thread explaining how to do it in Dolphin.

    subtext ,

    I did, and it was fairly straightforward according to the documentation I found. This was a couple of years ago but I’m pretty sure I needed to figure out how to use nano, then type some magic words into fstab along with the IP and password, and I haven’t had to mess with it ever since.

    Shade ,
    @Shade@lemmy.world avatar

    More to the penguin army! Welcome

    Caligvla ,

    … You guys might shit on it, but that’s incredibly smart on their part. Ten years or more of that button being there and now suddenly something else replaces it, just imagine the amount of people accidentally hitting the button and being introduced to copilot. This was a very deliberate change.

    BarrierWithAshes ,
    @BarrierWithAshes@kbin.social avatar

    I'm pretty sure there's a term for it. Google did it with shopping and images, Instagram changed the home button with some advertising thing (dont remember the exact details).

    rottingleaf ,

    Phishing?

    lemmyvore ,

    Dark pattern.

    RobotToaster ,
    @RobotToaster@mander.xyz avatar

    Dark patterns

    BarrierWithAshes ,
    @BarrierWithAshes@kbin.social avatar

    Better than whatever i wouldve come up with lol.

    Granixo ,
    @Granixo@feddit.cl avatar

    Shadow Patterns!

    SlopppyEngineer ,

    I was thinking enshittification

    ech ,

    Nobody said it wasn’t deliberate. It’s still shitty af.

    eskimofry ,

    It’s Smart as in, MLM scheme smart. Not honorable, just smart. Like a thief that is clever about not leaving fingerprints.

    cyberpunk007 ,

    That’s why there are 3 of them now. One there and two in the corners of the start menu popup

    SlopppyEngineer ,

    And the thing failed the things I asked it to do so far. It’s not very helpful with actually getting things done.

    Allero ,

    That’s exactly why we shit on it

    MonkderZweite ,

    Dark pattern smart.

    Mango ,

    If being an asshole is smart, I’d rather be dumb.

    people_are_cute ,
    @people_are_cute@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    This being “smart” is entirely based on the assumption that the average user who’s actually trying to just get to their home screen won’t be pissed when the bloated chatbot pops up instead. And that assumption is wrong.

    Defaced ,

    Linux exists people, without copilot using your information for training data and if you game, has Valve releasing updates like crazy for proton making it easier and easier to use Linux for gaming. The only thing I use Windows for is GeForce now as the windows and Mac apps are the only way for me to play 1440p 120fps with their service.

    Good beginner distros: pop_os, Ubuntu, Linux mint, Nobara or fedora, Garuda, Manjaro, solus, zorin. The possibilities are really endless. Just take your pick, make a bootable USB and try it out.

    Olgratin_Magmatoe ,

    has Valve releasing updates like crazy for proton making it easier and easier to use Linux for gaming.

    It quite ridiculous how far it has come. I remember trying out ubuntu years ago and being incredibly disappointed with how few games were compatible. Nowadays I’m running a dual boot LMDE/Win 10. Probably 80% of my games work right out of the box, and the other 20% I can just switch over within a minute or so.

    I am still a little disappointed at the lack of mod manager compatibility for some games, but it no longer feels like a deal breaker for me.

    SqueakyBeaver ,

    Idk which games you’re referring to, but I (somehow) used steam tinker launcher to do modding on fallout new vegas

    Olgratin_Magmatoe ,

    The two big ones as of late for me has been rounds, valheim, and lethal company, all of which are on r2modman, but r2modman does something funky on linux that makes games crash immediately after trying to launch them. Probably solvable, but not easily enough for me to go through the trouble.

    Mikina ,

    If you use nvidia, make sure to choose a distro that deals with their drivers by default. I havent manage to get Nvidia drivers and ingame cutscenes to work on Fedora, but after switching to Nobara all is well now. (And switching to KDE on X11, since wayland was freezing occasionally and some apps wouldnt work)

    Aside from HDR, I still havent managed to get HDR working and its starting to look like it wont really be possible. And Unity. Unity simply doesnt work both in a VM and on Linux, so I annoyongly still have to dualboot.

    Other than that, ive switched around two months ago, and aside from the first pains caused by me choosing Fedora instead of Nobara, everything mostly works without issues.

    Andrenikous ,

    My latest attempts at using Linux on my desktop started with Nobara. It was good but some updates borked my install. I’ve been using Bazzite, an atomic OS, and it has been rock solid.

    buzziebee ,

    HDR support is supposedly fixed on kde and should be getting fixed in most other distros soon supposedly.

    Unity worked for me on pop os after some fiddling and installing of dependencies, but it didn’t fully work. There was a bunch of tools (like animation keyframes) which just didn’t display correctly for me though. Checking out the source code of one the util did a check to see whether it was running on windows or Mac, then exited if it wasn’t either of those. Would be good to run it via proton if possible so we get full support without the Devs needing to write tons of code to support a small percentage of users. That experience is pretty common when running Linux as your main, but the other benefits make up for it.

    Andrenikous ,

    2024 will be the first year I use linux exclusively on my desktop. Bazzite has been amazing.

    scarilog , (edited )

    Linux isn’t for mainstream users yet. It wasn’t when I tried switching to it several years back, it isn’t now.

    I tried Zorin recently, UI looked absolutely beautiful so I wanted to try and get into it on my laptop.

    Only issue is, the trackpad scroll speed was too fast. I went into settings to try and slow this down. No dice, this option just want available. I tried googling, which led me to some stackexchange posts, which I tried to use to solve the issue by changing xinput or something device parameters.

    I tried for maybe 15 mins to do this without success. This kinda stuff is why Linux is not ready for the masses yet. I shouldn’t have to touch the command line for something like this. On windows I could have changed this without googling anything or touching the cli.

    I know this is just one thing, but it’s representative of my other experiences with Linux in general. Things seem to have improved since several years ago (needed terminal to even get touchscreen working in Firefox), bit it’s just not there yet.

    I really do want to switch to Linux, but I don’t want my computer os to be a hobby project that I have to sink time into to keep functional, I need it to be a tool that lets me get work done with minimal roadblocks.

    Defaced ,

    I’ve never in my entire time of using a modern Linux distro have ever had to change scrolling speeds with a terminal…that’s just utter bullshit.

    HerbalGamer ,
    @HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Just because you haven’t had a particular problem doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist or can’t happen.

    qazwsxedcrfvtgb1111 ,

    Well I listened to all the people hyping up Linux and tried pop os, literally nothing works right, it’s unusable lol. First time I tried to install it it straight up failed, worked on the second try. My hdr monitor isn’t supported apparently and looked dim no matter what I did. Had to fiddle with the display settings for a while to get scaling to work right so I could read text on the higher resolution monitor and fonts looked like ass anyways on the 1080p one. The messenger I use didn’t get a network connection until it crashed and restarted without OpenGL (what?). And the system scaling didn’t work in steam anyways so all the text was like 8px. After all that fun I can’t imagine how bad windows would need to get for me to switch to this garbage

    Defaced , (edited )

    Yeah you’re full of shit, sorry but I’ve never heard of any of these issues happening. The only thing I can think of is you used the wrong ISO that wasn’t for Nvidia or something. Also, you want HDR then use KDE, so you want something like KDE Neon or Kubuntu. As for fonts looking like shit, again, it’s all down to your drivers would be my guess, meaning you’re the one who downloaded the wrong ISO for pop_os. I’m running an all AMD build, maybe you should look into that I guess if you literally can’t click install on the hardware drivers applet in any modern Linux distro.

    Dr_Satan ,

    Linux. You’ll be glad you did.

    Free. Easy to install. Never gets viruses. Never crashes. Rock solid.

    Runs good on old machines. Runs like lightning on new machines.

    I’ve installed it for 3 old ladies (3 separate installs). They like its simplicity and low-bullshit.

    I personally use Debian with a Mate desktop.

    KuroeNekoDemon ,

    I use Fedora with Gnome Desktop and it runs so well you will not be disappointed

    g00 ,

    I mean, I agree. But sometimes you’re kinda forced by damn app compatibility. Although, if you have the choice I’d say make the jump. If you’ve no experience there’s a learning curve but it’s worth it.

    joenforcer ,

    Worth it how? I feel like every post that claims about how much better Linux is after handling a bunch of tweaks and hacks and workarounds to get into baseline functional doesn’t really get into what actually makes it better. After all of that heavy lifting, you’re already at a disadvantage and I still hear nothing of the benefits. I start to wonder if the “better” is justification for all the effort that goes into tricking it to work rather than being meaningfully superior.

    gaael ,

    The good news is, it’s easy to try and see for yourself ;)

    Head over to an easy distro (like Linux Mint or Ubuntu for example) and create a live USB. Boot your computer on that USB, try the live environment.

    You’ll see if your hardware works as expected. If it does, you’re golden, you can proceed to install and have zero problem down the road.

    If it doesn’t, and you don’t feel like troubleshooting to make it work, you can just remove the USB stick, reboot your computer and continue using Windows.

    Mileage varies a lot while using Linux. It’s really great these days, but there are always some edge cases. I use Linux on my gaming desktop, and it crashes often because part of my pleasure is trying out stuff, breaking my install and do it all over again.
    I also use Linux on my work laptop, and it has not crashed once in 4 years.
    I wanted to install Linux on my SO’s laptop because they liked the idea. I tried the live environment, never managed to get the wifi card to work, gave up, and they still use windows. When the laptop dies, the replacement will probably be a refurbished thinkpad where everything usually works out of the box.

    All in all, it’s always been worth it to me: my laptop is faster and more stable than those of my colleagues, I don’t have to deal with Microsoft’s bullshit, I don’t come late to meetings because my computer was updating…
    My gaming desktop is my fun machine, I’ve learned a lot on it and when I just want to game I roll back to a stable snapshot.

    Also, don’t underestimate the representation issues. I think that people who have trouble with a Linux install have the reflex to ask online on Lemmy, Reddit or forums, while people who have trouble with their Windows install just live with it or bring it back to the shop.

    trailblazer911 ,

    “Never Crashes”, “Runs like Lightning on new machines” Am I doing this wrong? I tried Ubuntu, Zorin OS, Linux Mint- I get crashes and errors which doesn’t explain what the error is, instead shows some code lines. Runs like Lightning on new machines- In my 13600K build, Windows 11 feels noticeably faster, and I’m able to use all my onboard stuff like Optical Audio Out, WiFI 6 connects to 5GHz properly, unlike Linuxmint. I think I lack the technical expertise to run linux. I have been building PCs for like 20 years now.

    Batbro ,

    Wild guess, Nvidia GPU?

    trailblazer911 ,

    6750 XT.

    fine_sandy_bottom ,

    This is my experience.

    It’s fine, but always glitchy niggly things.

    frankenswine ,

    you probably are doing it wrong ;)

    the problem is cutting edge devices where vendors only publish windows drivers - often friendly hackers have to develop their own drivers to make your stuff work. for users with such hardware the free software experience is often sub-par and they probably won’t try it anytime soon. but for everyone else, casual i-only-browse-text-and-watch-videos-on-my-rather-standard-build-users will usually find ad-free, smoothly running no-bullshit (or depending on the distro maybe little-bullshit) computing experience. it’s a shame hardware vendors are allowed to only publish drivers for windows.

    it’s one of the few cases where people with more expertise (i.e. you who builds your own machibe) get a less satisfying result. i’d suggest you try again with spare parts from your last build ;)

    laurelraven ,

    “Rock solid, never crashes, runs like lightening on new hardware!*”

      • some exceptions apply
    frankenswine ,

    top-level commenter says new machines, not all hardware you could possibly attach to whichever bus your mobo offers, but yeah

    downvote me again for pointing out that it’s hardware vendors duty to offer drivers for the OS of your choice not your duty to shit on some kernel for not supporting hardware you bought from (excuse my french) shitty vendors

    laurelraven ,

    Dude, chill. It was a joke dunking on the idea that Linux is perfect that the top level was complaining about and which you weren’t defending, it was not a slam on you.

    And I was almost exactly quoting their quote, including “new hardware”, so I have no clue where you’re pulling that from.

    I didn’t downvote your first comment, but I would your reply if I could for being so off the rails

    Steak ,

    Linux is tough man

    Rootiest ,
    @Rootiest@lemmy.world avatar

    I know this will usually draw the ire of more experienced users (yes I use Arch btw) but if you really want an install that is as hands-off and foolproof as possible you are generally gonna be better off with an Ubuntu distro.

    I put Kubuntu on PCs for beginners/noobs because it gives them access to more advanced options if they need them in the future while also typically being fully functional out of the box.

    Ubuntu distros typically have extensive hardware support and a lot of testing. Yeah it’s not going to be the most cutting-edge but you don’t want that, you want it to “just work”

    dakd2 ,

    I just installed arch on a friend PC that is just one of those old intel dual core without integrated graphics and I am just surprised it ran as good as on my ryzen 3400g

    rab ,
    @rab@lemmy.ca avatar

    Ya but I need to use Adobe software

    MisterD ,

    I can see MS paying Adobe to NOT release Linux versions of their software.

    rab ,
    @rab@lemmy.ca avatar

    Probably. Doesn’t change the fact that it renders linux useless on my workstation.

    I have fedora on my laptop tho.

    ArdMacha ,

    My issue with Linux at the minute is all the different app stores and package managers.

    Rootiest ,
    @Rootiest@lemmy.world avatar

    It doesn’t really bother me tbh.

    KDE’s Discover app pulls from the distro package manager, snap, and flat hub. AppImages to me are like “portable” executables and don’t really need an app store. However you can use Gear Lever to update them.

    Jerkingass ,

    Windows Key+D

    Press it again to restore all apps to foreground.

    masterspace ,

    If I wanted to memorize a bunch of random shortcuts and gestures to do basic tasks I’d use MacOS.

    RagingHungryPanda ,

    I just got a Mac for work. The hotkeys are definitely worse

    funkless_eck ,

    im meant to use a Macbook for work. I don’t. I sign into it whenever they complain I haven’t signed into it and go straight back to using my old computer I formatted for work. it doesn’t even support two screens!

    masterspace ,

    Mx series MacBooks are a non starter for work since they only support a single external monitor like it’s 2002.

    Even the Mx Pro series MacBooks don’t support Multi Stream Transport, so are limited to only outputting two displays.

    I miss Windows.

    smolyeet ,

    After using both (windows personal , Mac work) , I personally find the hot keys more intuitive in some areas and worse in others. Command being the requirement for a lot of shortcuts makes it easier , but stuff like show desktop or lock were annoying until more recent versions.

    masterspace ,

    My point was that MacOS requires you to remember a bunch of shortcuts for basic things that Windows handles naturally. Like want to know what Windows you have open? On Windows you can tell that fromd the taskbar, on MacOS you have to remember a shortcut.

    smolyeet ,

    That’s fair. The dots under the application in the dock let you know what is open. I find expose easier to use because you can see them all at once like you can do on windows. I only look at the dock to see what’s open on windows, and I alway group them which is probably why the Mac setup works for me

    IndoorParking ,

    Bro you just need 6 for 99% of the cases

    • Alt F4
    • Ctrl C / V
    • Win D
    • Ctrl alt Del
    • Alt tab
    ziixe ,
    @ziixe@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    And maybe Ctrl Z/Y (depends on layout with this one) to Undo and Redo

    Edit:typo

    Blank ,

    The Win+X menu is the bomb.

    Blank ,

    Also see Win+E and ctrl+w

    funkless_eck ,

    Win+V / Win+Shift+V / Ctrl+Shift+V for text manipulation

    Win+[1–9] to launch apps or alt+space (might require powertools)

    win+ctrl+d win+ctrl+[⬅️/➡️] for VDs

    masterspace ,

    And until a day ago, I only had to remember 5

    redfox ,

    You only listed 5 ;)

    IndoorParking ,

    I put ctrl C and ctrl V on the same line but I counted them as 2 ;)

    Dozzi92 ,
    @Dozzi92@lemmy.world avatar

    Yeah, I wish I never had to use a mouse. Only serves to slow things down. Obviously, gaming, necessary, but anything productive, taking your hands off the keyboard is a waste.

    I am not a programmer, either. Using Excel and Word are secondary functions in my job, basically administrative, making invoices, record keeping, but they function so much better with your hands on keyboard. Alt menus for the office suite are time savers. And the stupid expensive bullshit proprietary software I use for my work is basically built to use hotkeys.

    sploosh ,

    What’s the shortcut to remove the data-harvesting, power-sucking leech that is Copilot?

    Natanael ,

    The power button

    intensely_human ,

    Hold on, just gotta do a quick update first. Just one sec

    cousinofjah ,
    @cousinofjah@twit.social avatar

    The longcut is installing Linux

    finalarbiter ,

    Tron does a decent job of scrubbing it

    learningduck ,

    Just press windows+d bro.

    I forgot that the button exists.

    Evotech ,

    Win+d also redirects to copilot

    qevlarr ,
    @qevlarr@lemmy.world avatar

    I hope that’s a joke or else I’m gonna be so mad

    PlutoniumAcid ,
    @PlutoniumAcid@lemmy.world avatar

    Nah, obviously you launch Copilot with Ctrl+C.

    JonEFive ,

    So you’re just out here trying to start a riot, eh?

    Plopp ,

    No you do that with Win+R.

    konalt ,
    @konalt@lemmy.world avatar

    Obviously it’s right mouse button for quick access

    captain_aggravated ,
    @captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

    and not Ctrl+Alt+Shift+Win+T

    Rubanski ,

    Or Win+m

    mods_are_assholes ,

    I purposefully tear every windows key of my keyboards with a pair of needlenose the moment I unbox them.

    Thankfully my daily driver keyboard is too old to have one.

    Aatube ,
    @Aatube@kbin.social avatar

    You can still re-enable it in the taskbar settings. Personally I like asking an AI to do stuff, so I like the Copilot icon in my taskbar, BUT NOT ON THE FREAKING BOTTOM RIGHT CORNER GODDAMMIT THAT'S FOR LIKE NOTIFICATIONS
    AND NOW NOTIFICATIONS GO OVER COPILOT BUT NOT QUICK SETTINGS FOR SOME REASON AND IF YOU BRING UP QUICK SETTINGS IT SHIFTS TO THE LEFT AND HIDES NOTIFICATIONS??
    at least I won't accidentally hide my desktop while clicking copilot in a place where it shouldn't have been
    except oh no signing in to unlock copilot doesn't even fucking work

    time to grind on my giant arch migration checklist and hunt for a good foobar2000 alternative which i'll likely never finish

    cyberpunk007 ,

    For me, there are 2 on the top left and too right of the start menu pop up and they don’t even look the same. Whoever is in charge of UI/UX needs to be shot. Holy shit. Windows just feels like a taped together heap of shit. The competition is way better.

    QuaternionsRock ,

    Holy shit. Windows just feels like a taped together heap of shit.

    I thought that was pretty much an open secret since Windows ME. As a begrudging Windows user who loves Linux infinitely more, my impression has been that they’re just dialing that shit to 11 (hah) while they complete their transition to being the high-margin SAAS empire known as AzureCopilotGithubOfficeGamepassSoft. I kind of doubt that Windows revenue is even worth labeling on their pie charts anymore.

    Gestrid ,

    It felt less taped together (in the UI sense, anyway) before Windows 8, honestly. Mainly because they didn’t do semiannual or annual (or whatever the schedule is now) feature updates.

    Windows 8 was… Windows 8.

    Windows 10 never felt finished, especially whenever they shifted the UI design between updates. Some things would follow the new look, while others wouldn’t.

    And now they’re repeating that with Windows 11.

    QuaternionsRock ,

    Windows 7 was alright, except for nearly every aspect of its 64-bit infrastructure. But it was also basically a $100 patch for Vista that took 2.5 years to make so they could put that house fire in their rear view mirror while there were still people inside. Oh, and probably to fuck up government work for the better part of a decade.

    Gestrid ,

    Yeah, it definitely wasn’t perfect, but I was primarily focusing on the UI since that’s what the others in this thread were focusing on.

    menzentian ,

    For a Foobar2000 alternative have you seen Deadbeef . It doesn’t replace everything but has the same sort of modular interface.

    Aatube ,
    @Aatube@kbin.social avatar

    I've actually asked about alternatives in the EndeavourOS forum and talked about it there:

    I just found out about DeaDBeeF. Unfortunately, it's not what I'll be using.
    It is quite a one-to-one match to foobar2000! It has the same modularity and customization. However, the plugin ecosystem is nowhere as big. There's no Coverflow plugin.
    And there was a lyrics plugin, forked after an earlier plugin stopped development. However, the developer quit after decreasing passion coincided with the DeadBeeF developer removing the already finished Russian translation in the wake of the Russian war for whatever reason. Needless to say, I am not comfortable with it both feature-wise and ethics-wise.

    Strawberry and all Clementine (or should I say, Amarok?)-likes don't strike my fancies. They seem to be in pretty good hands, but I just don't like the side-tab layout (plus the aforementioned problem with lyrics). Amarok seems to have switched their design, and since I plan on using KDE either way, if the usage is good enough and I can't find anything better, I'll either use Amarok or Sayonara, which also seems promising.

    refurbishedrefurbisher ,

    I’m personally more of a fan of Audacious

    Also worth noting that foobar2000 works in WINE.

    Aatube ,
    @Aatube@kbin.social avatar

    Audacious only has the playlist and library stuff, from what I can see.

    Wining it is still going to stick out of place and the external window plugin thing I want is probably gonna be weird.

    zourn ,
    @zourn@lemmy.world avatar

    I personally really like StartAllBack. I just want a clean classic Windows experience.

    FaceDeer ,
    @FaceDeer@kbin.social avatar

    Not sure if it'll help with OP's rage issues (I skipped over the all-caps and punctuation-free stuff), but I've long been a fan of Open Shell. Makes the Windows experience extremely customizable.

    Mango ,

    What’s wrong with foobar?

    Aatube ,
    @Aatube@kbin.social avatar

    It has no version for Linux.

    Mango ,

    WHAT.

    I swear foobar is what I used to use… I’m having the memory bad.

    Aatube ,
    @Aatube@kbin.social avatar

    Well, you could maybe Wine it, but it's still going to stick out of place and the external window plugin thing I want is probably gonna be weird. You may have also confused it with Guarapiranga.

    Mango ,

    Naw, I’m pretty sure I just have it confused with when I was switching between windows and Linux a lot. I vaguely remember going crazy trying to find a decent player on Linux to match. I think I went with Amarok.

    claymore ,
    @claymore@pawb.social avatar

    I’ve used ncmpcpp and more recently Cantata to replace foobar, not as much customization but it gets a lot of stuff right for me.

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