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retrospectology , (edited )
@retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

Good. So long Genocide Joe.

Edit: To the neoliberals downvoting this, this is what your denial is supporting. Joe Biden is pro-genocide and so is anyone who supports him. There’s not even a practical reason to support him at this point, which is very telling to anyone still defending him.

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/9b17975a-b1ef-4332-9c39-5850cfaabe1e.jpeg

Fuck zionism. And fuck anyone who thinks Biden is a “good guy” or moral by any stretch of the word.

PythagreousTitties ,

You’re incredibly short sighted. Anyone from both parties is still going to insure Israel is an ally.

retrospectology ,
@retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

Israel is a client of the US, not vice versa. Turkey occupies the same geographic space. The propping up the Israel is an ideological policy by the right-wing, not a meaningful geopolitical one for our nation.

audiomodder ,

Technically true. The clients of Israel are US politicians through AIPAC.

Perfide ,

What is your point? Trump is even more gung-ho about supporting Israel than Biden was, and whoever replaces Biden will certainly take his stance on the issue. There is no pro-palestine candidate even in the conversation.

retrospectology ,
@retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

What is your point? Trump is even more gung-ho about supporting Israel than Biden was

No, I’m rejecting this notion outright. Nothing about what we see in Gaza indicates that Biden is any less “gung ho” about the slaughter. Israel is operating without limits. Basically everyone in the democratic party, whether they are pro-Israel or not, is still to the left of Biden on the issue. Even Harris pretty deliberately distanced herself from Biden on this because even she saw how bad this was going to be.

Biden is being forced to step down in no small part because his zionism has made him unelectable. The polls in Michigan that just came out were quite literally the straw that broke the camels back here. Whether Dems continue being pro-Israel or not, the lesson from the Biden presidency is still that voters have a hard limit.

keyez ,

And possibly hello convicted felon, rapist, racist, Putin/Orban boot licker, veteran hater, who has had everyone remotely competent who’s previously worked for him leave and say what a horrible person he is to the presidency elect. Or sorry does that not rhyme as well?

retrospectology ,
@retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

Biden was going to lose to Trump. So from both a moral and pragmatic perspective, it’s good he’s gone. You might be pro-bombing Palestinian children, you do you, but if you want a Dem president, this is the only way. It just so happens to also be a referendum on Biden’s zionism.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Oh I’m sure you’ll be talking about “Genocide Kamala” and telling us not to vote for her soon enough.

retrospectology ,
@retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

She at the every least had the decency to distance herself from Joe’s fanaticism when he started giving his full-throated support for the genocide. She’s still culpable, but represents a step in the right direction, away from right-wing extremism.

keyez ,

I’m pro cease fire and don’t claim to know much on the topic, but neither side is doing the right thing from reports and what I’ve heard. This one moniker to show how bad Biden is is just so lazy and misinformed since nobody who will get elected on either side is going to do the right thing but please keep posting that on all Biden threads you seem to be an expert we can all learn from.

retrospectology ,
@retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

You’re not pro-ceasefire if you think this is a “bothsides” issue. Israel has all the power. You know how you can tell without being an “expert”? Just look at the skeletal, starved, mutilated bodies of the children in Gaza and compare it to what’s going on in Tel Aviv. Go look at the images from Gaza and try to tell me with a serious face it’s “bothsides”.

No. Joe is a genocide supporter, and so are those who make excuses for him.

ImADifferentBird ,
@ImADifferentBird@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Trump is Bibi’s bestie. There is absolutely no way on Earth he would do a damn thing to end the genocide. In fact, he’ll happily cheerlead it, without even the token hand-wringing we get from Biden.

Hell, I would say Biden was the better candidate from a pro-Ceasefire stance, since, at the very least, he is vulnerable to pressure from the left to push for a ceasefire. Trump is not.

Zaktor ,

Yes, and now we don’t have to choose between genocide hard and genocide light. Harris (or whoever) can come in with a generic pro-peace two-state message rather than defending the decision to send Israel big bombs for months. He’s off the ticket, you don’t need to argue that he’s bad but better than Trump anymore. The new candidate can just be not a genocide supporter.

retrospectology ,
@retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

Trump and Biden are both pro-genocide, yes, though Biden should be held accountable by democrat standards, not republican ones. It’s about the party principles in terms of those too, Biden had to pay a price for his fanaticism.

But I was talking about Israel and Palestine/Gaza.

ImADifferentBird ,
@ImADifferentBird@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

But I was talking about Israel and Palestine/Gaza.

Who did you think I was talking about when I said Trump was Bibi’s bestie?

For future reference, Bibi is Benjamin Netanyahu. And if you don’t know that, you should probably educate yourself a bit more before talking about Israel and Palestine/Gaza.

PythagreousTitties ,

Ohhhhh that’s what you were talking about about… We all missed that…

ShepherdPie ,

In what way is Biden vulnerable to pressure from the left? What are they going to impeach him? The party hasn’t listened to those of us on the left in decades.

keyez ,

I’m not making excuses for him but guess I see no betterment if repugs are in charge again, Ukraine situation will probably get worse as well, and I’m more worried about what more will happen with a project 2025 riddled future and stripping away of regulations and further ignoring of climate change and action. I am well aware of what’s going on in Gaza and it needs to stop, but I know which devil will be a major net worse for the future of humanity and I’m going to vote against that future which is a blue vote.

retrospectology ,
@retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

I’m not making excuses for him but guess I see no betterment if repugs are in charge again

No one wants the republicans in control. But voters committing to the game of chicken that Biden himself started with his own constituency was necessary to get him to step down. Like with a bully, if you never stand up for yourself they just keep abusing you again and again. That’s neoliberal democrats to their base – they’re bullies to their own voters.

The threat to their power needed to be credible, people needed to show that they were ready to just let them take us over the cliff if that’s where the Democratic establishment was going to take us, and it worked.

Biden is not a good human being. He’s a narcissist and a child killer. There’s no reason to show him any respect or deference now that he’s stepped aside. In fact people should continue to loudly proclaim the genocide as his legacy, to make it clear to the party leadership that supporting genocide is an electoral liability, not something you can force down people’s throats.

ShepherdPie ,

All this is true and Biden was still projected to lose to him, which says a lot about who the party leaders are grooming for the office. You should direct your anger at them not the people who’re having these terrible candidates foisted upon us. Imagine if they’d actually picked a likeable candidate back in 2016 and relegated Trump to the simple laughing stock that he is.

keyez ,

I was volunteering and telling everyone I knew to vote Bernie in 2016 for the primary but the DNC fucked everyone by just casting him aside. Because of that I didn’t vote in 2016 and multiple things in my life got demonstrably worse right in front of my eyes and I’m not making that mistake again.

VanillaBean ,

Don’t forget insurrectionist treasonous mutherfucker

VanillaBean ,

Lmao wait until Trump gives Netanyahu the green light to erase Palestine. Got what you wanted I guess. Hope you are prepared to do some more protesting, oh wait he will probably throw you lot in jail or deport for protesting unlike Biden. Reap what you sow.

retrospectology ,
@retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

Netanyahu already got the greenlight. Anyone who’s been paying attention to what’s happening in Gaza would know that.

There is no difference between Trump and Biden when it comes to their support of genocide. Biden is not more “moderate”, he’s fully onboard and has provided everything Netanyahu needs to continue his war crimes. The difference is Biden is a democrat, which means that he needs to be held to democrat standards, not republican ones. If he’s not then the party is functionally the same as the GOP and pretending there’s a difference is pointless.

gmtom ,

I remember being young and naive and thinking everything in the world was simple, easy and black and white.

One day you will grow up and see how foolish shortsighted you are being.

retrospectology ,
@retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

And now you’re old, condescending and accepting of genocide. Hope I’m never like you.

MaXimus421 ,
@MaXimus421@lemmy.world avatar

You must realize that just like Reddit, this sub is far left leaning. It’s pointless to post anything that goes against the echo chamber.

retrospectology ,
@retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

The left is not in support of Israel. While it’s true that there isn’t much of a MAGA/nazi element on Lemmy like on Reddit, there is a fairly large neoliberal demographic. As well as a growing contingency of Israeli, Russian, and Chinese bots as those groups realize that Lemmy is growing as reddit continues to wane.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Any moment now, the ‘don’t vote for Biden’ group will be in here telling us not to vote for Harris. And if it isn’t Harris, they’ll tell us not to vote for whoever it is.

Anything but stop the dictator and his plan to commit genocide against Latinos and queer people.

PythagreousTitties ,

I’m really hoping if Harris still has to be on the ticket that she’ll stay VP. It would be nice to have a decent prez option.

But I’ll be voting anti trump either way.

Hegar ,
@Hegar@fedia.io avatar

It would be nice to have a decent prez option.

It would also be nice not to live on a burning planet controlled by decrepit rich psychopaths but I don't think either of us will be getting what we want.

I'll still vote for whatever the democrats decide to run, of course, since minimizing or maximizing fascists' access to government is the only question on the ballot this election.

ToastedPlanet ,

I didn’t want to believe it but they’re already in the comments. We need to be vocal. Kamala is a great candidate.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Of course they are. They started when it was just rumored that Biden would drop out.

baronvonj ,
@baronvonj@lemmy.world avatar

‘Beating the Republican Fascist agenda’ is a great candidate. I don’t really care how that is spelled on the ballot.

Zachariah ,
@Zachariah@lemmy.world avatar

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/94f527ab-0972-44d3-bb20-4a449a055bf0.jpeg

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I’ll vote for virtually anyone the Democrats nominate to stop the genocidal dictator, but my first choice, of course, will always be-

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/8e944d30-b33a-4215-ad07-afe8248d8bbb.png

Lost_My_Mind ,

Alright, fuck it. I’LL run. I’m 40, nobody knows me so they don’t hate me, I think Hitler was bad, and I’ll let you guys smoke weed and keep your pronouns.

And for the republicans in the room, I’m not going to send anyone to take your guns. That sounds like a bad idea, that we already saw play out in Waco TX. Nobody wants that.

And for all the cats registered as undecided parties…meow meow meow meow meow. Meow meow MEOW MEOW MEOW!!! HISSS HISSSSS HISSSSSS clickclickclickclickclickclick…purrrr purrrr purrrr purrrrr purrrrrr.

And to all the mentally crazy voters, HEYMYNAMESBOBANDIMHERETOMAKEEVERYBODYSAFEFROMTHELIZARDPEOPLEFROMEATINGOURBRAINSANDTHEGOVERNMENTPOTBELLIEDPIGSBACONVIVALEREVOLUTION!!!

And to the dyslexic voters, Helol hwo aer yuo?

queue ,
@queue@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

That’s my main deciding point, and why I’m happy Biden stepped down. I didn’t think he’d win the Rust Belt. Harris might.

My main vote is “Not Trump’s Fascism.”

kautau ,

I will absolutely vote whoever is opposite of trump on the ticket. But a black woman winning the rust belt? That would be wild. I’m all for it, mind you, but that would be some crazy shit.

njm1314 ,

If she she’s was a great candidate she would have been the candidate 4 years ago.

TexasDrunk ,

So she hasn’t gained any knowledge or experience in the last 4 years? We’re all just born with all the knowledge and experience we will ever have?

ToastedPlanet ,

She was on the ticket 4 years ago. She is VP. Now she’s on top. Kamala 2024!

bolexforsoup ,

Fuck ooooffffffffff my god these flippant bullshit one liners get so old

rebelsimile ,

If you’d applied this logic to trump would have even posted this?

Speculater ,
@Speculater@lemmy.world avatar

How is she a good candidate? She stood against everything progressives stand for as a prosecutor and hasn’t apologized or clarified that she supports marijuana legalization, abolition of for-profit prisons, or disproportionately prosecuting minorities.

elbucho ,
@elbucho@lemmy.world avatar

What the fuck are you talking about? When she was running for president in 2019, she released detailed plans about how she would legalize marijuana, abolish private prisons, and reform the carceral system.

I get that you probably weren’t aware of her evolved stance on these things, but a single google search could have shown you that you were incorrect on every single point you made.

Speculater ,
@Speculater@lemmy.world avatar

And I’m happy to be wrong about her evolved state. Thanks.

barkingspiders ,

This is the bravest comment I’ve seen today, you deserve an internet prize 🏆

Feathercrown ,

I love this site

ToastedPlanet ,

politifact.com/…/were-tulsi-gabbards-attacks-kama…

Harris “put over 1,500 people in jail for marijuana violations and then laughed about it when she was asked if she ever smoked marijuana.”

Notably, the figures dropped dramatically during Harris’ tenure, from 817 marijuana-related admissions in her first year in office to 137 in her last.

She laughed because it was funny and I’m tired of people telling me it’s not. 💥 🔫

She’s been a prosecutor, senator, and now VP. She has the experience. She can speak in complete sentences. She is a neo-liberal but that was a given. All Democratic candidates since Clinton have been neo-liberals. The idea that Kamala is anti-progressive is false.

SpaceCowboy ,
@SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

Yeah it is ridiculous. Essentially “why didn’t you legalize marijuana when you were AG?” Because that job isn’t about changing the laws it’s about prosecuting the law.

Bad enough SCOTUS is changing laws on a whim (instead of interpreting which is their actual job) we shouldn’t be expecting everyone on every level just disregard laws they disagree with. I agree that marijuana criminalization is stupid and should be repealed, but push for legislators to change the law rather than push for more people to ignore the law.

Steve ,

https://startrek.website/pictrs/image/d586fb6d-7bf7-4486-9738-e56b933dec32.png

fine_sandy_bottom ,

Of course they are. It’s infuriating. Even the “anyone but trump” idiots undermines confidence in Kamala.

queue , (edited )
@queue@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I may be a weirdo, but I was on the “I’d consider not voting for Biden.” but I’m currently more interested in Harris. Nowhere near as bad of a track record as Biden had. From being racist, to supporting rapists getting into the Supreme Court, to backing massive removal of constitutional rights.

Harris’ record isn’t perfect, and while I’m in California, I don’t recall any bills she pushed/voted for as Senator that was anything as bad as the USA PATRIOT Act. I don’t like her record as our AG at all, but Senator is a different story.

If she picks a good VP pick, I’d be down. I’m wanting maybe Newsom, but that’s just he biggest Democrat I know, as he’s my Governor.

Edit: I don’t know how to make it clear: I live in California. If I voted for a ham sandwich for oresident it would have the same impact as voting for Biden. My state’s EC is clear and chosen, and popular vote doesn’t decide the president otherwise we’d never have Trump. I was considering going Greens, but I’m looking forward to Harris. Get mad at undecideds in Swing States and Trump supporters, not a registered Democrat in California.

RubberElectrons ,
@RubberElectrons@lemmy.world avatar

Felt the same, both about her and Newsom.

acosmichippo ,
@acosmichippo@lemmy.world avatar

you were considering not voting for Biden when Trump was the alternative?

kylie_kraft ,

A very common position among the lemmy crowd, unfortunately. I really don’t expect much to change either, just swap Harris for Biden in the hit pieces.

acosmichippo ,
@acosmichippo@lemmy.world avatar

I’ve disengaged from political news and discussion over the last few years for my mental health, and this confirms that was the right move. shit is driving me crazy.

queue ,
@queue@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I don’t know how to make it clear: I live in California. If I voted for a ham sandwich for president it would have the same impact as voting for Biden. My state’s EC is clear and chosen, and popular vote doesn’t decide the president otherwise we’d never have Trump. I was considering going Greens, but I’m looking forward to Harris. Get mad at undecideds in Swing States and Trump supporters, not a registered Democrat in California.

Djtecha ,

CA still has republicans in congress so please still vote.

queue ,
@queue@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I’m trying to. I live in the district Kevin McCarthy was in. His replacement isn’t great. Our blanket primary was “Republican backed by Kevin and Trump” and “Republican backed by conservative think tanks and Trump staff”.

I’ve considered running for office using a form of leftist talks masked like Republican talking points. But an openly queer leftist in Republican territory won’t go well, unless I figure out what urn I want ahead of time.

Djtecha ,

Well keep on fighting. 😊

queue ,
@queue@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Even if we lose in 2024, we keep fighting.

sapphiria ,
@sapphiria@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Not all of us live in swing states. It’s weird that so many people act as if that’s the case online.

acosmichippo ,
@acosmichippo@lemmy.world avatar

I don’t care where you live, vote.

sapphiria ,
@sapphiria@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I never said I wasn’t going to vote.

acosmichippo ,
@acosmichippo@lemmy.world avatar

so you’re going to vote, but not for biden because electoral college nonsense. this isn’t time to fuck around with rhetorical voting no matter how safe you think your state is.

queue ,
@queue@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Yes. But I’m in California. My vote for President doesn’t matter. My local ballots do.

K3zi4 ,

As a non American I just can’t comprehend how any of you even have to think about this.

On one hand, an old man, who, despite his age and stumbling over his words, has ran the country relatively successfully for the last four years.

On the other hand, another old man that was a global embarrassment, cosied up to Putin and Kim, spent most of his time golfing and shitting his pants, stole classified documents and likely sold state secrets, he is a sexual abuser, an actual criminal, clearly has corrupt justices on his side with crazy plans, chummy with epstein and took multiple trips to pedo Island, promoted racism at every opportunity, many of the people connected to him for his first term were imprisoned, refused to accept your democratic process, contributed in instigating a fucking coup attempt, and that’s likely not even the half of it…

Like, how the fuck can ANY of you look at that and say “Yeah but Biden stumbles over his words so I’ll just throw my vote away/vote for trump…”

I feel like I’m going insane just watching this shit unfold. It is all so bizarre.

mashbooq ,

As an American I’m newly flabbergasted by this every damn day

AquaTofana ,

Don’t worry, those of us Americans who don’t have their heads up their asses are just as baffled as you are and 3 times as embarrassed that Trump is even an option again.

I am in a fucking loop of laughter and tears because I don’t even know what to do anymore.

queue ,
@queue@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I just don’t want an old rapist racist in charge of a country.

confusedbytheBasics ,

Yes. It’s insane. I will vote for whoever is most likely to beat Trump. It’s embarrassing that he is RNC’s pick for candidate. He demonstrated his inability to do the job and his fans still want him because he hurts the “right people”. Horrifying.

kylie_kraft ,

It’s not even “he hurts the ‘right people’” anymore, because Trump’s policies hurt everyone. It’s"he hurts the ‘right people’" more than he hurts me. I will give myself a cold to give you a fever.

Wiz ,

If pay money to hear the words “pedo Island” used against TFG in the debate.

Tryptaminev ,

The criterion is very simple: Don’t vote for genocide committers, enablers or planners. That excludes Biden and Trump.

If the Dems manage to produce a non genocide loving candidate, then vote vote vote and drag everyone who will vote for the non genocide candidate to the polling station.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

And what is your plan for stopping Trump’s planned genocides?

Tryptaminev ,

2A

radivojevic ,

Unfortunately, talking about realistic plans will get you banned in this community

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

They aren’t realistic because no one with any credible ability to pull them off is making such plans. You sure aren’t leading the lynch mob.

radivojevic ,

Thomas Crooks is leading the mob.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

If the leader of your great revolution is a corpse, I think you have big problems.

radivojevic ,

Corpse, Martyr, similar but different.

FlexibleToast ,

The guy that had no political motives and was just trying to hit the highest valued target he could? That’s a piss poor leader.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

That’s also true, but I’d say the bigger problem when it comes to his leadership skills is his complete lack of brain and other organ activity.

FlexibleToast ,

Biden already dropped.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

That would be a much funnier joke if Biden hadn’t literally endorsed someone else to be the leader.

Also, I’m sure Biden’s spleen is just fine.

FlexibleToast ,

It was only meant to be a stupid joke. Not an actual political statement.

radivojevic ,

That’s your interpretation of his motives.

FlexibleToast ,

Yes, because that’s where the evidence leads. I do tend to form my interpretations of things based on evidence.

AbidanYre ,

From 6ft underground?

radivojevic ,

I think that’s a requirement for being a martyr.

AbidanYre ,

I had this discussion with someone a couple weeks ago and was surprised to learn that it’s not.

www.wordnik.com/words/martyr

radivojevic ,

Interesting. Well, martyr nonetheless.

GoddessNoAi ,

“I’d rather let someone who actively, aggressively advocates, enables, and wants genocide domestically and abroad to win the presidency, over voting for somebody who passively enables genocide to happen abroad because actively trying to stop it could ignite WWIII” is still a bad take.

It’s baffling and hypocritical.

Tryptaminev ,

It is hypocritical to delude yourself into believing voting for genocide is somehow not approving genocide. And i hardly doubt that stopping Israel from committing genocide in Gaza would ignite WW3.

If you mistake it for Ukraine, think about all the help Ukraine is not getting so Israel can get it instead. Dozens of Billions in Weapons to slaughter a civillian population instead of helping Ukraine defend itself against Russias invasion.

GoddessNoAi ,

I’m not deluding myself about anything. The choice isn’t “vote for or against genocide” it’s “act to get less or more genocide”. It’s not a false dichotomy; if you’re not voting to defeat Trump, then you’re acting to get more genocide.

By not acting to defeat Trump, you’re enabling genocide more than Biden ever has.

Lyrl ,

In some takes on the trolley problem (do nothing, five people are run over by a trolley an die, flip a track change switch and two people are run over by a trolley and die) flipping the switch is the morally worse option because then those two people’s deaths are your fault, whereas the five people who die because you did nothing are someone else’s fault. I don’t agree with that take, but it’s taken seriously in philosophy circles.

Lyrl ,

I don’t get how in the Levant, where both Hamas and the Israelis have significant factions that want to genocide the other people, a situation where Hamas does the genociding (because an Israel without attack capability de facto also loses defense capability) is somehow more moral than a situation where Israel does it.

Tryptaminev ,

You are making multiple false assumptions in there. The first being that 2.000 pound bombs are somehow “defensive”. The next being that a 30.000 fighters Hamas would somehow genocide all of the settlers, despite their army having hundreds of thousands of members. Then it goes further with this idea, that they want to eradicate them, when all they want is to get their land back. The settlers always have the options to leave and go back to their home countries. Meanwhile Israel as a settler colonial project has to commit genocide to complete itself because as long as a Palestinian people exists, it will demand to get back to its rightful land. Finally you are wrong about the reasons why people in Palestine support violence. They do so, because it is the only thing protecting them from annihilation. For Israelis it is a mix between believing, they need to commit genocide as being the perpetrator protects them from being the victims, classic imperialist greed and a big portion of racism and fascism.

But in the end Israel will destroy itself from within as all fascist states do eventually. The question is how many more people the US helps them to murder in the meantime.

Semi_Hemi_Demigod ,
@Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world avatar

Even if Trump wasn’t going to do awful things, I can’t stand his stupid face or his stupid voice or his stupid stupidity. That’s enough to vote for someone who’ll beat him.

Burstar ,

Get out of my head. I only watch late night talk shows on Youtube now just so I can skip past any Trump video. I hate that guy so much it makes my jaw hurt whenever I see his image.

Edit: I wish I could vote against him.

thisbenzingring ,

When I place my vote, I’ll remember you 👍

Burstar ,

Thanks fren!

Lost_My_Mind ,

Are you unable to vote against him because you’re not American?

jwt ,

Generally speaking you vote for someone. I’m thinking they meant literally a box on the ballot:
☑️ Against trump

Burstar ,

Heh, or just vote for his opponent whomever that may be :P

Burstar ,

Yup.

Lost_My_Mind ,

Ah. Legally speaking, that’s a pretty good excuse.

Lost_My_Mind ,

No. It absolutely isn’t. I was too young to vote in the 2000 election, but Gore had the same stupid face, long drawn out speech paterns, and general unlikability.

However, his policies, and his message were good. I would have voted for him despite his stupid face, because of him being the better candidate.

I FULLY understand people hating trump…but I underatand the hate because trump is a piece of shit. I get why trump is hated for his bad policies. I get why people hate having a criminal in the white house.

But to say that if a candidate were good for the position, but you hate their face and voice, I wouldn’t understand that.

aStonedSanta ,

Yeah but Gore did win that election. It was stolen from him. Just like Bernie won the DNC nomination and it was stolen from him. Fuck the DNC. But fuck the RNC harder.

Lost_My_Mind ,

This is the kind of comment that makes me angry, while I agree with all of it. It’s a weird feeling to be yelling “YEAH I AGREE WITH THAT!!! RAAAAHHH!!!”

NoIWontPickAName ,

Nah, I said I would support her if that’s what it came down to.

She needs a good VP though with her record.

That debate and the putin -Zelensky trump-Harris mixups so short together.

Pull in Buttigieg and you have a white male as a backup to calm people down and maybe pull in the gay vote.

I understand how the last sentence could be seen the wrong way, but it’s the cynical reality.

bolexforsoup ,

You’re talking about election strategy, it’s not wrong if a bit blunt/overly reduced.

noisefree ,

Harris-Buttigeg is too close to Harry Butt and Harris-Pete is too close to Harry Peter for the 4th grade reading level crowd (aka “undecided voters”). I don’t personally have a huge issue with either of them, but it’ll probably be Harris and the Sheriff of Mayberry.

JimSamtanko ,

Absolutely they will. When the gEnOciDe stopped working/got boring, they switched to- oLd!

Give it a day, they’ll have their reasons not to vote for her too.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Someone already replied to me saying that unless the Democrats produce a “non genocide-loving candidate,” don’t vote for them.

kylie_kraft ,

conveniently making room for the one candidate who probably does love a genocide

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

And not just genocide overseas. Trump has made his position on immigrants and queer people very clear. And if anyone thinks ‘immigrants’ won’t include brown people that are native-born citizens who don’t happen to have the right ID on them, you’re wrong.

kylie_kraft ,

Oh, totally

JimSamtanko ,

Of course they did. Because MAGA won’t be happy until there are no democratic voters.

Captainvaqina ,

No democracy either. They want an authoritarian dictatorship because they don’t believe they’ll be the ones hurt by it.

Djtecha ,

Bots bots and more bots. I assume all of that garbage is coming from a room full of shoulder to shoulder ruskies

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I tend to go by Hanlon’s Razor unless given reason to do otherwise.

FlexibleToast ,

Cool strawman you’re beating up. I think the majority of us that didn’t want Biden is because he didn’t have a good path to victory. We didn’t want to just stand by and watch the train wreck happen. Harris isn’t much better, but at least she is better, and I will be on board with that of that’s who is chosen. I would rather see Whitmer be on the top of the ticket though.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

One of my strawmen replied to me below. You should tell them about how I knocked them down.

FlexibleToast ,

You will never please everybody.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I thought I was beating up strawmen? Now they exist?

You do understand what a straw man argument is, right?

FlexibleToast ,

The strawman is acting like they’re the majority.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

When did I do such a thing? Please quote me.

FlexibleToast ,

Any moment now, the ‘don’t vote for Biden’ group will be in here telling us not to vote for Harris. And if it isn’t Harris, they’ll tell us not to vote for whoever it is.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Yes. That is what I wrote. What specifically there suggests I was talking about the majority?

Do you think ‘group’ means ‘majority?’ Maybe English isn’t your first language.

FlexibleToast ,

The fact that you even wrote it at all implies they’re a major group. Why bring up the insignificant minority?

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

You are not psychic. You do not get to tell me what I was implying. Especially when I am telling you otherwise.

FlexibleToast ,

Now you’re back peddling. Maybe you should actually say what you mean instead of leaving it up to interpretation.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Maybe you should have asked.

Omniraptor ,

as a queer leftist (look up ag kamala’s record on gender affirming care for trans inmates for a fun time) I support her on electoral grounds- she isn’t visibly falling apart at the seams like Biden and can do the physical work of campaigning and interacting with potential voters. We can work with this.

She is also on record as having a somewhat tougher stance on Israel’s war (unlike Joe, who supported them no matter what they did). That’s my personal red-line issue so I’m glad there’s some semblance of a shift there :/

PriorityMotif ,
@PriorityMotif@lemmy.world avatar

I’m sure that her stance could have changed from that time as it’s become a more understood issue now from then. It’s the people that the president appoints that are ultimately responsible for policy in their departments.

kandoh ,

She’s one of the reasons if someone were to kill you they wouldn’t be able to use ‘i panicked’ as a defense.

SpaceCowboy ,
@SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

Well VPs traditionally will say the things the President can’t say publicly for geopolitical reasons. Harris may have been saying the things the Biden was thinking but couldn’t directly say while actively negotiating with Netanyahu. Can’t be sure but it’s a more likely scenario than her going rogue against someone on the same ticket as her.

Doesn’t matter now, but more for future reference. If a future President Harris isn’t saying what you want her to say on foreign policy issues but her VP is, you’ll know what’s up.

mecfs ,
  • and disabled people
Natanael ,

And soon enough, the wrong kind of christians

some_guy ,

Until Harris fucks up terribly in public and jeopardizes her campaign, I won’t be advocating for her replacement. I never said “don’t vote Biden.” I said “run somebody better.” Keeping Trump out of office is more important to me than living in this country and I love where I live. I’m hopeful that Harris can win the trust of the people and prevent my having to relocate (and a bunch of other bad shit).

dadarobot ,

Most of the biden haters i know on the left are upset about his support for israel. Harris has been much more critical of the genocide. We’ll just have to see.

I didnt want to vote for biden, but was still going to vote blue no matter who. Im glad i dont have to vote for genocide anymore.

Frozengyro ,

I’m sure you still will have to unfortunately.

aStonedSanta ,

Yeah I like Harris less than Biden. Sad day tbh.

TechNerdWizard42 ,

Disliked Biden, hate Kamala. Voted for them. Kamala and anyone else, nope.

They need someone hopey and feely like a 2008 Obama. If they don’t find that, the Dems are toast. And I can’t think of any mainstream politician that could get that reaction apart from maybe AOC. But that would get just as many MAGAs on the other side out to vote and they’d still lose.

You need empowering Democrat that is neutral to the MTG loving republicans.

Maybe Newsom? But if I had to bet it will be Kamala and another woman or minority to get the double whammy and they’ll surely lose.

jvw ,

You need empowering Democrat that is neutral to the MTG loving republicans.

No, we don’t. Those people will never vote Democratic anyway, so F them.

Mobilize the base. Play to the base.

SpaceCowboy ,
@SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

Yeah it will hopefully energize the younger base… “Be a part of history and vote for the first woman President!”

But they do need to sway some independent votes too.

But if they go hard on reproductive rights hard they can sway a lot of women voters (and some men too). There are a lot of women that normally vote GOP that may vote for Harris on reproductive rights, even though they will never admit it publicly. Sure Biden would press on that too, but a woman making an argument for her rights may be more effective.

Also if the GOP starts blowing on their racist dog whistles and show their true selves, they will lose a lot of independents. Of course the GOP could show some discipline HAHAHAA, sorry couldn’t finish that sentence. There’s already Kamala Birther memes making the rounds on Facebook as we speak.

Imgonnatrythis ,

Dumb. All because of a bad night that the media turned into a storm. Real world performance metrics were actually quite good for Joe. The Republican candidate says stuff on par with a semi-comatose baboon every time a microphone is in front of him. Supporters of this are oblivious to how much seething sexism and racism lies just under the surface in the US. This was a big part of how we got into this mess in the first place and why estimates for Hillary’s success were so far off. It will be an incredible win if she pulls this off, but it’s just not going to happen.

kandoh ,

Joe was 7 points behind in Michigan.

Americans have elected a black president already, and women have held every other level of office.

Everything sounds impossible until it happens.

Imgonnatrythis ,

It doesn’t sound impossible. It makes perfect sense, except look what happened to Hillary. I work in a role where I’m exposed to rural Americans and if you talk to them it’s incredible how the subtle prejudices start to come out. Also, polls this early are notoriously off base.

dadarobot ,

I dont think we should run a woman because everyone else is sexist. /S

SeriousMite ,

I don’t know. I think with abortion on the ballot having a woman at the top of the ticket will be a benefit.

taiyang ,

In 2016 it was a “Vote Against Trump Regardless Of Who It Is”. It’s shaping up to be that again, but this gives me hope that maybe we’ll have someone we can vote for that we like… Even if just a little. Harris is no Obama in charm, but it’s a step in the right direction.

baronvonj ,
@baronvonj@lemmy.world avatar

The general election will continue to be a strategic vote against the party you don’t want to win until voters come out en masse in the primaries. And those better candidates will have to actually be running in the primaries.

Phenomephrene ,
@Phenomephrene@thebrainbin.org avatar

Not just the primaries; it's going to take a tea party style insurgency into the DNC in order to exact the actual changes that we are looking for. The long play is getting involved in your state level Democratic party apparatus and pushing for better representation of progressive policies in the party platform, and pushing people of progressive persuasions into the DNC. <--- Much inadvertent alliteration.

FlexibleToast ,

You mean not until the entire voting system is overhauled and the first pass the fence post system is abandoned.

baronvonj ,
@baronvonj@lemmy.world avatar

Yes. I mean the thing that won’t happen until we overwhelmingly vote in the major parties primaries to put in representatives who will legislate those changes at the state level. Because 3rd party candidates aren’t winning with the current system, so we have to change the two major parties from within, through their primaries.

FlexibleToast ,

I don’t see that happening unless we were voting with rifles and guillotines.

baronvonj ,
@baronvonj@lemmy.world avatar

No 3rd party has won a single electoral vote since Wallace in '68. He won 46. You have to go to Teddy Roosevelt in 1912 to top that with 88 (the most ever). It’s either taking over the parties from the local level up through their primaries or it will take the full collapse of our government with a new constitutional convention, and that probably won’t go well.

FlexibleToast ,

Like I said, rifles or guillotines. I don’t see it reasonably happening through voting in our current system.

baronvonj ,
@baronvonj@lemmy.world avatar

Well it can’t if we don’t try. For the 2024 primaries in Texas we had 17.9M registered voters, 3.2M primary ballots cast, and only 900k of them were Democratic. So I get why people think it isn’t going to work. But I think anyone expecting a “don’t vote and let it burn down” situation to result in an immediate improvement rather than things getting insanely worse are deluding themselves to everyone’s detriment.

FlexibleToast ,

I’m definitely not in the don’t vote camp. I just think I have reasonable expectations of what my vote can accomplish, and it’s not much.

baronvonj ,
@baronvonj@lemmy.world avatar

Definitely a lot of well earned cynicism about the process.

audiomodder ,

We actually saw this happen in 2020 in the Democratic Party. And establishment Democrats played the game to force Bernie out. We’re hearing from people that Biden wasn’t the best person to beat Trump, he was the best person to beat Bernie. That’s why they rallied around him and pulled the bullshit with Warren before Super Tuesday.

baronvonj ,
@baronvonj@lemmy.world avatar

Yes, that was at the top. The president can’t unilaterally change state-owned voting laws. Bernie did succeed in getting more progressive candidates into the Democratic party primaries down ballot in 2018 and beyond. That pressure needs to be maintained all the way down to the state legislatures and city/county offices. We have to flip the states locally to get election reform at the state level in order to make 3rd party options viable at the national level. Focusing on the presidential race to shame Democrats into electoral reform is just an exercise in self-owning loss to the Republicans.

Wxnzxn ,
@Wxnzxn@lemmy.ml avatar

At this point, it’s all just about delaying the repression and concentration of power under a Trump presidency, as well as trying to slow down the climate catastrophe as much as possible on top of that. Things won’t get better any time soon, it’s simply not the historical situation and dynamic at the moment, but every year to organise people for radical alternatives for when the global collapse progresses further is valuable.

Imgonnatrythis ,

I could care less about charm. I wish more people would. Personally, I want a fucking autistic that defines real goals, outlines a plan to achieve them, and measures their success on how efficiently the goals are met. I’m exaggerating a bit, but I miss the days where politicians had platforms and were willing to be something more than just a feeling.

Psythik ,

Couldn’t* care less.

Imgonnatrythis ,

Bad bot. I like to leave a little wiggle room. I’ve often suprised myself and found that when I care very little about something, I can sometimes find a little more apathy later on.

toast ,

If you can care less, why mention it? It is an empty statement, supporting nothing. It has no rhetorical impact at all, except that reinforces the idea in your audience that you haven’t even a good grasp of the language you are using.

Imgonnatrythis ,

Perhaps you are an English speaker from outside the US? It is an often used and well known colloquialism in the states. It’s not any more empty than other accepted forms of speech that lack traditional grammar or syntax.

merriam-webster.com/…/could-couldnt-care-less

To a non US English speaker it would understandably sound strange. But to correct someone using this phrase in the states would only make one look like a prick.

Eezyville ,
@Eezyville@sh.itjust.works avatar

Not voting for a prosecutor. Guess it’s third party again.

kandoh ,

What a baby you are

Eezyville ,
@Eezyville@sh.itjust.works avatar

You mad because I won’t vote for who you want?

TechAnon ,

WHAT AM I GOING TO DO WITH ALL MY BIDEN HATS, FLAGS, T-SHIRTS, AND STICKERS?!

/Just kidding - not in a cult 😅

Zacryon ,

not in a cult

Sure? You are on Lemmy after all.

/joking. Or am I? 🤔 VSauce music plays

TechAnon ,

Yep, dropped Digg for Reddit. Dropped Reddit for Lemmy. Will drop Lemmy for something else if I end up not liking it. 😎

Frozengyro ,

You now have enough data points to estimate how long until Lemmy turns to shit and you need to migrate again!

Machinist ,
@Machinist@lemmy.world avatar

I did Slashdot, Reddit, Lemmy.

xhieron ,
@xhieron@lemmy.world avatar

Well congratulations “liberals”, bots, propagandists, defeatists. You win. If Trump had beaten Biden, it would have been Biden’s fault, along with the party. Now the party gets to share the blame with you. You lot gambled this for the rest of us. Let’s hope your bet pays off. Open your wallets and hit the pavement. If you’re a real person and you pitched a fit so this would happen, you got what you wanted. Act like it. Your lobbying won you an obligation to campaign. If you were on social media begging for Biden to quit, now you owe the time you spent here to Harris’s campaign (or whomever the fuck they nominate).

You bought it. You own it.

audiomodder ,

You must be too young to remember Clinton losing to Trump and rather than “oh this is Clinton and the party’s fault”, they blamed it all on “Bernie bros” despite there being absolutely no data to back it up.

If I’ve learned anything in my decades on this earth, it’s that the DNC will fuck everything up, and they will blame anything bad that happens on the progressive wing of the party.

SpaceCowboy ,
@SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

I hate the anti-Biden bots and bot-curious types as much as you do. But it was Biden’s decision and I doubt anything said on social media influenced that decision. There’s the debate performance, the polling data, the fact that he is actually old and isn’t going to be able to do two rallies per day for the next 100 days while also doing the job of President. Those were the real world factors that likely influenced Biden more than anything on social media.

I was all in on saying nice things about Biden and trying to downplay the age problem for the next 100 days. Whatever it takes to prevent Trump from getting back into the Whitehouse.

But Kamala Harris has a slightly better chance than Biden. I think young people value identity politics too much… but we got just over 100 days left so we can talk about that later. For now… hello fellow young people, don’t you want to be a part of history and vote for the first woman President of the US? Vote Harris!

I’ll miss the Dark Brandon memes… but now we’re pushing coconut memes? Is that what we’re doing now?

Whatever it takes to prevent Trump from getting back into the Whitehouse.

reallykindasorta ,

Bernie 2024, even if he dies of a heart attack first day his appointments would change the country for good and I don’t trust any party politicians on Palestine.

girlfreddy ,
@girlfreddy@lemmy.ca avatar

I’m hoping for a Kamala/AOC ticket.

timewarp ,
@timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

Seeing AOC oddly shill for Biden before he dropped out… which I’d expect from Pelosi, Schumer & Schiff, but not from her. She may actually be trying to get the VP spot.

timbuck2themoon ,

Maybe she had better political acumen and knew he’d do better.

timewarp ,
@timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

Maybe she saw an opportunity

ShepherdPie ,

How can one know how well a candidate will do in a future election?

Carrolade ,

She just did the calculus that Biden was our best shot, due to a whole shitton of different factors from Biden’s support among elderly voters, union support, money raised, polls being pretty crap for a few cycles now, shit like that.

Now there will be logistical challenges, we have a lot of uncertainty ahead. She wanted to avoid that until we got some better answers.

timewarp ,
@timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

Biden bros: No one has a plan if Biden drops out. Everyone else: Here is our plan. Biden bros still: No one has a plan if Biden drops out.

Plan was open convention where delegates decide.

Carrolade ,

Yes, that’s an excellent example of uncertainty.

timewarp ,
@timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

What is better… knowing Biden would lose to Trump, or being uncertain who the delegates will choose before the convention?

ilmagico ,

Nobody knew for sure Biden would lose and nobody knows for sure that whoever is picked will win. It was high uncertainty all along.

Perfide ,

If that’s what you call a “plan”, never manage anything, ever.

mosiacmango ,

Or you could read her arguments, which were direct and pragmatic. She was talking about how difficult this would be logistically, and that it would have been better to do 6 months ago, you know, when the progressive wing of the party raised the issue.

AOC was “shilling” for some consistency, backbone and party unity out of a pragmatic need to beat back fascism. Now that this choice has been made, I’m betting she will continue with the same intent.

timewarp ,
@timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

Biden was going to lose and he was making other Democrats lose. What did you expect the party to do, unite behind losing to Trump?

AOC was prob smart, saw Biden didn’t believe he was going to lose and saw an opportunity before it played out.

TipRing ,

Further, Bernie and AOC are rather well aware that the progressive wing of the party would likely be blamed for “party disunity” if Biden stayed in and lost. They will not do anything to let the DNC scapegoat their caucus.

the_tab_key ,

Which is hilarious because Pelosi, Schumer, and Schiff were all against Biden continuing in the race…

AOC understands politics and thinks things through, that’s it.

timewarp ,
@timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

AOC has always been considered an outsider to Democrat leadership. She prob was thinking things through, but I don’t think it is because she thought Biden was going to win.

ShepherdPie ,

I agree it was likely more about party unity and not biting the hand that feeds you.

revelrous ,

Imo she’s trying to shield progressives from being the scapegoat, like how we got the blame for dem dysfunction in '16.

SpaceCowboy ,
@SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

Politics is about getting the things you want, not dunking on people that disagree with you on a couple of things. You gotta compromise with people to get what you want. People feel like being uncompromising is somehow admirable, but in politics it means you get nothing. MAGAs are uncompromising, and they get a lot of likes on social media for it, but they’ve accomplish exactly nothing after winning the House in 2022.

Biden has been good for the progressive wing of the party, and they may not get as good of a deal with Harris as they did with Biden. They will have to negotiate compromises with someone new and may not get as much.

So do you rather politicians compromising and getting something to benefit you, or grandstanding and accomplishing nothing except providing a small amount of entertainment for you?

jeffw ,
@jeffw@lemmy.world avatar

Biden just endorsed Kamala, so that much is likely. The VP will probably be one from a shortlist of 5 or so governors/senators from swing states.

FlowVoid ,

Maybe, but then the swing state could end up with a GOP governor. That’s one reason why VPs are often from safe seats, eg Harris, Pence, Biden, Palin, Quayle…

jeffw ,
@jeffw@lemmy.world avatar

The shortlist I’ve seen thrown around a lot so far is pretty much Whitmer, Shapiro, Cooper, and Kelly. Maybe someone like Beshear, but I’d call that slightly lower odds than the others. I think they will probably lean away from a 2 woman ticket too

FlowVoid ,

I think you could add Pritzker to that list

acosmichippo ,
@acosmichippo@lemmy.world avatar

that would be great, but there’s no way they double down on minorities and women in the same ticket. get ready for a biden jr as the VP.

WanderingVentra ,

That would be cool but I suspect it will be a white, straight man to balance out the ticket for the racists and sexists. Maybe someone from a swing state.

ShepherdPie ,

Yes more pandering from the DNC to the far right individuals who would never vote for a Democrat to begin with.

audiomodder ,

Aka what Biden was to Obama

twistypencil ,

Is AOC old enough?

jo3shmoo ,

Yes she’d be 35 before taking office.

TexasDrunk ,

She will be by the election.

tryitout ,

She will be by inauguration which is all that matters.

marito ,

Yes, she’ll be 35 by election day.

ShepherdPie ,

She will be before the election and long before the inauguration.

twistypencil ,

Ok, 1000 people replied, thank you, you can stop now lol

teejay ,

She will be by the time she’d take the oath.

ThePyroPython ,

As an outside observer I find it hard to believe that a place as right-wing as the US would elect a woman of colour as president. Isn’t that double red rag to the nutjob bulls?

NoIWontPickAName ,

Most of them were already voting trump anyway

WoahWoah ,

Automatic loss.

Gerudo ,

Hot damn I had forgotten about a new vp pick in the middle of all this. AOC won’t be it but needs to be.

HurlingDurling ,
@HurlingDurling@lemmy.world avatar

Honest question.

Now that Biden is out, can any Democrat run for election? Or is Kamala it?

tal , (edited )
@tal@lemmy.today avatar

Biden has endorsed Harris.

There’s no law governing this. Depends on what the Democratic Party does. May be that it’s decided internally on Harris. No way to know for certain.

I expect that we will find out soon, because whoever runs has very little time to do so, so the Democrats cannot screw around here – they need to get a pick in place quickly and get the campaign moving.

Gretchen Whitmer and Gavin Newsom, the other two frontrunners I’ve seen mentioned, have previously said that they will not run against Harris if she wants it. So it’s probably Harris’s call.

Zaktor ,

The Democrats officially choose their nominee at the convention (or maybe a virtual vote this year). There will be only one ticket running for the Democrats, but someone other than Harris could try to get selected. It’s really unlikely though, as rejecting Harris would be very damaging to the party and two major competitors already said they wouldn’t try to run against her.

SpaceCowboy ,
@SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

Now that Biden is out, can any Democrat run for election?

Yes. In theory.

Or is Kamala it?

Yes. In reality.

kn0wmad1c ,
@kn0wmad1c@programming.dev avatar

What happens now? Does the DNC pick a replacement or will they be holding a snap primary?

Thekingoflorda OP ,
@Thekingoflorda@lemmy.world avatar

A new canidate will be picked during the DNC on 19-22 august.

alvvayson ,

Correct.

And Kamala is the most logical choice, because there will be the least amount of legal hurdles, since she was already on the ticket.

And the Republicans already said they are going to mount legal challenges, which can easily lead to SCOTUS deciding the election. So I expect Sanders, AOC and progressives to strongly push for Kamala.

But I fully expect the DNC to push forward some corporate candidate like Bloomberg.

It’s going to be interesting.

someguy3 ,

How is it that states can decide (or whatever the correctt word is) who’s on the ballot when the party hasn’t even officially nominated a candidate? I know that political parties are separate from election institutions, but it seems very strange. And it seems very early for states to have it set in stone.

Zaktor ,

They can’t. The nominee is chosen by the party and then communicated to the states. The states do have deadlines for being on it and this year some organizational genius scheduled the convention after the earliest deadline in Ohio. Ohio has since moved that deadline back, but the structure of the law leaves room for shenanigans so the DNC is moving forward with a virtual vote before the convention.

someguy3 ,

So legally it should be fine to decide at the DNC?

Zaktor ,

Yes, with a big asterisk on the “should”. The law that pushes the deadline back may theoretically not go into effect until after the deadline is passed, and they paired it with some other campaign finance rules that are probably unconstitutional, so there’s an outside chance the whole thing gets struck down.

All that said, the Democrats won’t win Ohio for the presidential race. They want to be on the ballot to help turnout for the Democratic senator who’s running at the same time. So if they took a risk and lost, it wouldn’t be the end of the world.

alvvayson ,

I am not a lawyer, but what is clear is that each State sets its own laws. By the constitution, States are in charge of elections.

What I have heard is that Biden has to release his delegates, who are already bound to him. Many states have already had their primaries completed with the Biden/Harris ticket winning.

Sending those electors to the Convention and letting them choose someone else is going to be a grey area.

If they choose Harris, it’s pretty sound. When a president steps down, the VP becomes president, so there is definitely precedent and a legal basis.

But if Biden releases his delegates and lets them vote for anyone? That will be challenged and it will go to the supreme court. And SCOTUS is corrupt enough to find some flimsy legal excuse that helps Republicans.

So yeah, that’s what I’ve heard. But I am not an expert.

dhork ,

Mike Bloomberg? He’s older than Biden

SirDerpy ,

There are no legal hurdles. The private organization can nominate whomever they want regardless of their votes and their rules.

audiomodder ,

The legal hurdles aren’t in the nomination, they’re in monies donated directly to the Biden/Harris campaign

SirDerpy ,

The only way money is beholden to a campaign is because a major donor insisted upon it. And, no one is asking for a refund on executive and legislative influence.

MeThisGuy ,

pick me

the_crotch ,

The legal hurdles are around getting their candidate on state ballots

SirDerpy ,

Nice insight. Democratic Secretaries of State will find a way. But, Republican Secretaries of State will definitely resist.

I want to be of a mind that they made the bed to exclude third parties and now should lie in it. But, perhaps this is an opportunity to change the rules of ballot access for the better.

mosiacmango ,

You think the DNC is going to try to push out the centrist, sitting vice president of their party during a presidential election? The vice presidential that aligns with the majority of their constituents, has a huge war chest of money, and is a well know and generally liked member of the party?

The DNC are idiots, but that makes no sense at all.

timewarp ,
@timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

Serious? I haven’t even had time to see that. That is the best decision they could have made.

dhork ,

The new candidate will be picked before then, they were already planning an early roll call vote because the DNC convention is too late for some state deadlines.

hitstun ,
@hitstun@fedia.io avatar

August 7 is the deadline. The problem is my state, Ohio. By law, the Democrats must nominate someone in 17 days or be left off the ballot. It's way too fast for a special primary election.

This is certainly going to face legal challenges in red states, too. The orange one will probably run unopposed in states like Florida.

holycrap ,

My understanding is they pick a replacement

jeffw , (edited )
@jeffw@lemmy.world avatar

Anything could happen. Most likely is the elected delegates will decide at the convention (edit: when you vote for “Biden,” you are basically voting for who the delegates that will elect him will vote for, so you still elected those delegates). Redoing a primary before then would be next to impossible. Takes weeks or months to get signatures to get on the ballot, then you need time to recruit staff to work the polls, etc.

wjrii ,

Yup. I would be literally stunned if any state primary has no legal path forward for what to do if a primary candidate drops out before the convention. It could get messy, but this idea that the dems will not have a candidate in some states come November is FUD.

Broadly, when Americans vote in primaries, they are not voting directly for a candidate but kicking off a process that will ultimately send delegates to the party’s national convention. Those delegates are the ones who officially pick the nominee — and the Democrats’ convention hasn’t happened yet.

www.politico.com/news/…/what-next-biden-00170001

SpaceCowboy ,
@SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

Yeah it’s the convention where it’s made official that a person is the nominee. If he dropped out after the convention… now that would be a mess. But as it is now, the guy that was the presumptive nominee yesterday is not longer the presumptive nominee.

morphballganon ,

If the DNC of the past is any indication, they’ll ignore voters and put up the most boring, uncompelling candidate they can.

solrize ,

Alternatively: they put up the most divisive and cringeworthy candidate they can.

timewarp ,
@timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

I wanted AOC but her last few posts have been cringe. She’s divisive, but that could have worked in her favor. Prob. will be Kamala. I think they should have an open convention & let delegates decide though.

AbidanYre ,

Sorry, Trump’s already running as a Republican.

cerement ,
@cerement@slrpnk.net avatar

DNC busy trying to get Manchin and Sinema to come back to the fold

AbidanYre ,

Oh man, if they both come back it’s just a question of which one is on top of the ticket.

ShepherdPie ,

And those of us in the party who aren’t right-leaning will get blamed when they lose.

ralphio ,

Honestly the biggest problem Biden had was that all his funding dried up after the debate.

www.nytimes.com/2024/07/…/biden-fundraising.html

Regardless of who you think would win in a vacuum you gotta acknowledge this.

Speculater ,
@Speculater@lemmy.world avatar

I suspended my donations with a memo that they need to seriously consider running someone else. I’ll vote for Harris, but I’m not excited for her.

thisbenzingring ,

I think she’s as fine a candidate as we’re likely to get. The biggest bonus is breaking the glass ceiling, once and for ever. Not just a woman but a woman of a colorful heredity. It will be the best thing to happen in this era of bullshit politics.

coffee_with_cream ,

No talk of issues or positions here. Just “her sex and skin color.” Maybe that will get some people out to vote, but they did the same thing for Hillary and it did not work. “First woman president, she deserves it”

chiliedogg ,

Gretchen Whitmer would be an interesting choice. She would probably deliver Michigan and free up resources for the other states that matter.

VanillaBean ,

The biggest problem he had was getting old.

FlexibleToast ,

This means Harris shouldn’t have an advantage. She only had the advantage that she could use the funds that Biden raised.

ralphio ,

Presumably the donations will start coming back in now that Biden is out.

FlexibleToast ,

But now they can go to whomever the new candidate is.

ralphio ,

Ah OK I see what you’re saying. I misunderstood.

ashok36 ,

I stopped donating after the debate. I sent a donation today for 3x my usual. If they only respond to money, then withholding it is the only way to make them listen.

Duamerthrax ,

An aside, I hate that this was posted to twitter before it was posted to Biden’s own website or the White House’s website first.

Psythik ,

This is why the internet sucks now. Nobody maintains their own websites anymore. These days everybody just posts everything on the same handful of centralized megacorp websites. Social media killed the golden age of the web.

elvith ,

There are some exceptions that still live by the POSSE*-principle, but they’re rare.

*Post to Own Site, Syndicate/Share Everywhere

SpaceCowboy ,
@SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

Well Trump posts stuff to his own website :P

But yeah, I agree. And there’s no excuse for it really. Sure a regular person only posting to a single social media makes sense, but anyone that has staff should be able post to their own website, issue a press release, post on Twitter, Mastodon, Facebook, Blue Sky, Reddit, etc. I mean once you have the statement finalized it’s just copy & paste to get it on all platforms. It seems bizarre that they don’t do this.

the_post_of_tom_joad ,

Ey yo at least this place exists

mynameisigglepiggle ,

Elon probably boosted it for free, max.publicity

jeffw ,
@jeffw@lemmy.world avatar

My first reaction was that he was hacked. It wasn’t on official letterhead, there was no other announcement, and the president didn’t immediately make another tweet/x/whatever.

I don’t think I’m alone. Typically when something big like this happens, I get 5-10 news alerts within minutes of each other from various sources. The alerts were slow to roll in today.

Agent641 ,

I hate that he started at least 2 sentences with “and”

jeffw ,
@jeffw@lemmy.world avatar

washingtonpost.com/…/open-convention-democrats-bi…

“How Democrats would pick a new candidate if Biden drops out, step by step”

One [possibility] is a virtual vote that would lock in a new nominee in early August, and the other is an “open” convention, a scenario the party hasn’t experienced since 1968.
A convention is open when no candidate arrives with a clear majority of delegates, so the event turns into a mini-primary in which contenders scramble to persuade delegates to vote for them…
Some states have August deadlines to get on the ballot for the general election, and early voting begins in some places in September. So party leaders probably would try to settle the nomination before the Democratic National Convention begins Aug. 19.

There are two types of Democratic delegates. Pledged delegates commit to supporting the candidate state voters chose, although a “good conscience” clause in the party’s rules gives them a bit of wiggle room.

Automatic delegates, often called superdelegates, are the party’s highest-profile leaders. They have the role because of the offices they hold (or held), and the group includes former presidents and vice presidents, Democratic governors, members of Congress and party officials. They are not pledged to any candidate and are not allowed to vote on the first ballot at the convention.

PythagreousTitties ,

Clusterfuck it is, then. Oh boy.

SpaceCowboy ,
@SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

Not really. It’ll be Harris. Biden endorsed her and already other potential Dem front-runners are endorsing her. Within in a few days it’ll be like she’s the incumbent and no one will want to run against her for the same reasons they didn’t run against Biden. Plus the additional reason that they don’t want to screw up their chances of being her VP pick.

Rayspekt ,

Dumb question. Why didn’t they just schedule the convention prior to all deadlines regardless who runs for office? Is there any benefit to meeting so late?

jeffw ,
@jeffw@lemmy.world avatar

It is before the deadlines but just barely. Typically the candidate is known before the convention, so you already have enough signatures to get on the ballot in every state

Zaktor ,

It wasn’t when they scheduled it. It was after Ohio’s deadline. And major parties don’t need signatures to put forward candidates.

jeffw ,
@jeffw@lemmy.world avatar

Not in a general, no. They do in a primary though. In this case, you’re right, the candidate would get on the ballot by the delegates voting

cerement ,
@cerement@slrpnk.net avatar

a scenario the party hasn’t experienced since 1968

because the 1968 Democratic Convention went swimmingly – oh, they’re also holding this year’s convention in Chicago again you say? with increased police presence as well?

gAlienLifeform ,
@gAlienLifeform@lemmy.world avatar

Well, at least there isn’t anything controversial going on overseas that’s got the college kids riled up this time /s

DarkGamer ,
@DarkGamer@fedia.io avatar

This is so incredibly reckless and foolish. Democrats just handed victory to Trump because they seem incapable of party unity. There is no better candidate waiting in the wings and Biden was polling very competitively against Trump.

ralphio ,

He dropped over 2 points to Trump since the debate and I doubt more public appearances from him were gonna help especially since he already committed to another debate. He’s outside the margin of error for winning any sunbelt state and losing everywhere in the rustbelt. It’s not impossible that he would have won but seems pretty improbable.

Wxnzxn ,
@Wxnzxn@lemmy.ml avatar

It would have taken some big, unexpected developments for him to win at this stage. Especially after the failed assassination attempt invigorated and united Trump’s cult further.

Stupidmanager ,

I mean, reading between the lines, something else is wrong with biden. His age wasn’t all that helpful in the current situation, and then he gets sick? If he has only Covid, then we were in for 2+ months of a foggy candidate who already had questionable levels of clarity. No, this is not reckless, this is trying to save the election from an almost assured trump win.

ShepherdPie ,

The only recklessness I see is waiting til the 11th hour to read the writing on the wall. Someone posted in a different thread that Biden even stated in 2019 that he was only going to run a single term. The party leadership has had 4 years to choose a proper successor but chose party over country instead.

baronvonj ,
@baronvonj@lemmy.world avatar

Someone posted in a different thread that Biden even stated in 2019 that he was only going to run a single term

He didn’t. He said he saw himself as a transitional candidate, but never outright said single term.

WanderingVentra ,

It seems reckless, but the people who were pushing it were party insiders and big donors like George Clooney. I am not sure if it was a good idea, but I figure they must see things we don’t.

theneverfox ,
@theneverfox@pawb.social avatar

Nope, they just have money we don’t have

SeaJ ,

Down 3% is horrible. In swing states, he is losing even worse while Democratic Senators are polling up.

baronvonj ,
@baronvonj@lemmy.world avatar

I just don’t understand this with a non-felon, non-rapist candidate. Biden and those Democratic Congressional candidates are running on the same platform.

bdonvr ,

2020 was pretty close and Biden’s image hasn’t gotten any better and clearly wasn’t going to. He was never going to win.

RememberTheApollo_ ,

If you want lockstep unity you get to be fascist, too. Just like the republicans.

The best thing about Dems and libs is their general inclusivity. We want to have everyone to have a voice and a place to exist in the government. Shared control over the direction of the country. We want to exist and have lives free of violence, prejudice and misogyny, among other things, and to be who we are. But that’s also a drawback. Every group has their special interest. That’s hard to work with. If they don’t feel that their special interest has been advanced in some way they tend to sit on their hands. Vote third party. Not vote at all. We have a LOT of people all pulling in slightly different directions at the same time.

The republicans? They really have only one simple agenda, and that’s god, guns, and fuck the liberal agenda. And they show up to vote to do just that.

BombOmOm ,
@BombOmOm@lemmy.world avatar

Would have been better if he did this last year, would have allowed for a normal primary, rather than the clustefuck that is going to happen over the next month.

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