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Tim Walz is giving MAGA a master class in manhood

The joyful Minnesota governor is a valuable spokesperson for Harris whose background and personality can help the Democratic ticket undermine Trump’s efforts to woo America’s men.

Tim Walz’s first official speech on the Democratic ticket displayed all the reasons that Kamala Harris has been lauded for picking the Minnesota governor as her running mate. Personally, I think one outshines all the rest.

Walz’s military background and his work as a high school teacher and football coach, along with his palpable joy and open expressions of compassion for people in need, offer America a vision of what manhood can look like — he’s a “joyful warrior” offering a vision in contrast with what’s being offered by Donald Trump’s bravado-driven campaign.

And he’s clearly willing to challenge Team Trump on that front. He displayed that even before he received the call to join Harris’ campaign, using public appearances to refer to Trump and his allies as “bullies” who are truly weak at heart and by mocking the GOP ticket for “running for He-Man Women Haters Club or something.”

Quill7513 ,

Its also proof to the dipshits we don’t hate masculinity. We hate toxic masculinity. In fact, we find Tim Walz brand of masculinity refreshing and delightful

thefartographer ,

I like my men like I like my coffee: refreshing, delightful, and able to provide a sick burn

cheese_greater ,

On and off-carpet

Drunemeton ,
@Drunemeton@lemmy.world avatar

So Fresh and Hot!? Gotchu…

superminerJG ,

drops mic, leaves room

Wiz ,

I like my men like I like my coffee

“Ground up and stored in the freezer.”

KillerTofu ,

Sliding off the roof of my car as I drive to work.

Or my preferred one

I like my women like I like my coffee.

I don’t like coffee.

NotBillMurray ,

“Black, bitter, and preferably fair trade.”

KillingTimeItself ,

“i like my women like i like my coffee”

“men”

Quill7513 ,

I like my women like my coffee. With a huge penis you didn’t anticipate

KillingTimeItself ,

you like penis in your coffee? That’s a new one.

Quill7513 ,

That’s why it’s such a surprise!

KillingTimeItself ,

i suppose that would in fact be a surprise wouldnt it? Whose penis is it anyway?

suction ,

Coffee in the freezer? Madonne!!

peopleproblems ,

This right here.

Being a man isn’t about strength, or appearance, or body count, or power over others.

It’s about accountability, honesty, resilience (NOT bottling everything down), and meaningful effort.

Yeah it might not be the most physically attractive all the time, but I see my purpose in life to make sure we all have better so that we can all do better.

Walz joining the VP has really given me a new sense of courage I’ve been lacking lately, and I’m really happy to see others recognizing it to.

AngryCommieKender ,

or body count

Aww, man. Are you telling me my Cawl O Doodie K/D ratio won’t impress the girls‽‽‽

/j

ShaggySnacks ,

Aww, man. Are you telling me my Cawl O Doodie K/D ratio won’t impress the girls‽‽‽

Not with those rookie numbers.

assassin_aragorn ,

I see masculinity as a bit of a spectrum – there’s traits a lot of men share, but not all men necessarily have them, and women can have them too, and that doesn’t make anyone lesser.

Helping people, protecting people, being true to yourself, conducting yourself with honor. That’s what I see as masculinity. I guess in some ways, it’s the idealized perfect knight haha

Quill7513 ,

The ultimate fictional portrayal of the journey of toxic vs nontoxic masculinity is Zuko and Iroh. And what does Iroh teach Zuko and us? Manliness/masculinity isn’t defined approval, its defined by acceptance. To be a “man” isn’t about using violence in showy ways for the sake of being acknowledged. To be a “man” is to accept and love people, including one’s self, for their true nature. If violence is to be used, it must be in this context. Violence should never be used by a true “man” for anything other than protection. Violence can be wielded when it is to protect ones own true nature, or to protect someone else who doesn’t have the power to protect themselves from a domineering situation. The ultimate conclusion of this is asking the question of what emotions is a true “man” allowed to access. We are shown through Zuko that the only emotion the toxic culture is allowed to access and control is anger. We are shown through Zuko how hard it is to transition out of this culture of anger and violence and toxic masculinity. The ultimate conclusion to both his arc, and the arc that Iroh went on before the show, is that true power comes from accessing the entire emotional spectrum that dwells within and turning this into power. True “manliness” is more than just anger and violence. True “manliness” is passion. That passion can be rooted in anything. We watch Zuko learn that he can draw power from joy, sorrow, and empathy. Toxic masculinity is Zuko’s origin story: pure hatred. True masculinity is Zuko’s finale: empathy so strong and so powerful that he sees one of his greatest torturers as sad, tortured, broken girl; one that if he returned her lightning to her he would lose the part of himself that he’d cultivated and grew to love.

assassin_aragorn ,

Very well said. I think that might be why a lot of people (or me at least) relate to him so much, even if our fathers didn’t burn our faces and exile us.

There’s something very relatable about Zuko’s journey, and you’ve put it into words perfectly. I like how you pointed out that true manliness is passion, which is what we see the true origin of firebending is. Passion and drive. Feeling your emotions with all your heart.

As a small caveat, I do think Zuko was ready to redirect the lightning at Azula, and potentially kill her, the circumstances just weren’t right. However, I think after he sees her breaking down, he wouldn’t ever do that. Like you said, he realizes she’s broken and hurt and abused too. I think it wasn’t until that moment though that Zuko really realized it.

As a side note, this description of masculinity actually reminds me a bit of Gurren Lagann too. Manliness comes up a lot, and in the end, the series makes the argument that manliness is about tenacity, passion, protection, and creation. And it isn’t something that’s just exclusive to men either. Early on, the protagonist becomes stuck in grief, and it’s only after he accepts the sadness and emotions that he really comes into his own.

Already, very, very well spoken! Thank you for that!

nickwitha_k , (edited )

Being a man isn’t about strength

One of the few things that I disagree with in your statement and, really, it’s down to semantics. The are more types of strength than physical strength. There’s strength of character, there’s emotional strength, and more. But, like physical strength, all of these can be “exercised”, for example contemplating ethical quandaries can strengthen one’s character and ethical self-identity.

While much more abstract, I do find “strength” in this usage part of my model of masculinity.

Now, about this:

Yeah it might not be the most physically attractive all the time,

I guarantee that to someone, you absolutely are. Remember that practically noone just “sees” another human being, they perceive them. Our visual perception is NOT raw data. It is filtered by the context, real or imagined, that we associate with the person that we’re looking at. It’s the combination of all this in a non-straightforward manner that will impact how physically attractive someone finds us.

but I see my purpose in life to make sure we all have better so that we can all do better.

You know what I was saying above? Yeah. This is exactly the kind of thing will influence how you are perceived, even visually.

Walz joining the VP has really given me a new sense of courage I’ve been lacking lately, and I’m really happy to see others recognizing it to.

I’m sorry that you’ve been feeling less courageous lately. The world can fuck us all up from time to time. If it gets too severe, I’d definitely recommend seeing a therapist, if you are comfortable and able to do so (and aren’t already).

LostAndFound ,

A therapist, really? I mean anyone would benefit from a therapist at any time but the slightest downturn at any moment isn’t a sign of some severe problem that needs solving.

Suffering is completely normal and a true necessity if you are striving towards any sort of development of “self”.

Kiernian ,

Suffering is completely normal and a true necessity if you are striving towards any sort of development of “self”.

Most of what’s commonly referred to as “western” society does not typically see things that way, though. That’s part of why I personally think normalizing therapy by suggesting it regularly to people, even ones who don’t currently have “serious” problems is so important.

Many of us did not get the “tools” necessary to deal with simple normal every day parts of life like suffering (in any degree) from either our parents, from people around us, or from society at large.

That also means stuff like

A therapist, really?

Might deter someone who could otherwise benefit.

nickwitha_k ,

You got it exactly. Normalizing taking mental health and self-care as important and necessary parts of life is necessary to undo damage done by toxic societal values and expected gender norms. If someone is just having a bad day, they’re going to know that they don’t need therapy. If, on the other hand, they have been internalizing a lot of dark feelings or have untreated disorders, someone suggesting it might be enough for them to say “hey, you know what, maybe I’ll give that a try”.

nickwitha_k , (edited )

A therapist, really?

Why not? Noone should feel ashamed of needing a bit of help, if they need it. My mention of it was not a demeaning “go see a therapist, crazy” or anything toxic like that but a suggestion that it’s worth exploring if things are hard to handle.

Suffering is completely normal and a true necessity if you are striving towards any sort of development of “self”.

That will depend on your philosophy and what you define “suffering” to be. Yes, we need challenges and the like in life to give us stimulation and impetus towards self-discovery. However, I would much rather noone have to experience the pain and trauma that I have experienced and try to do my best to support others towards that end. I don’t by into the idea of needing to experience a painful and challenging life to make something of oneself. There’s plenty of people who are successful without experiencing traumatic events. There’s also plenty who are left entirely broken due to their traumas.

RustyShackleford ,
@RustyShackleford@programming.dev avatar

Man cannot remake himself without suffering, for he is both the marble and the sculptor.

- Alexis Carrel

Quill7513 ,

Therapy is the hammer and the chisel

Wahots ,
@Wahots@pawb.social avatar

Honestly, I see Walz as a strong and empathetic dad figure, and Harris as a firm but joyful mom figure for a lot of Americans who had shit parental figures growing up.

They make an excellent team.

stringere ,

As someone with a milquetiast go-along-to-get-along father and a born-again "christian " mother…yup.

Notyou ,

I see Harris as that goofy kind hearted aunt. She might not connect with you all the time, but you know she means well. Walz is definitely more like the dad that Americans wish they grew up with.

KillingTimeItself ,

this is my analysis of the running candidates right now, but Kamala is the urbanite minority runner, walz is the rural white runner. Kamala has lots of experience in urban environments and dealing with large companies and corpos, walz has a lot of experience supporting individuals and families and has many years in rural Midwestern politics.

kamala is more visibly younger, walz is visibly older, but they’re both essentially 60. Kamala picks up the votes of the younger millenials and gen z’s while walz picks up the votes of the gen x and boomer populations who resonate with his values.

Kamala should represent basically every large population center, cali, new york, probably not chicago, but they’ll probably vote for her anyway, etc…

Walz is basically courting the entire midwestern vote by being midwestern, as well as rural, more moderate/center leaning voters.

This is quite literally the avengers team of the democratic party right now. I don’t think you could have made a better team.

fine_sandy_bottom ,

I agree with everything you’ve said, the optics and the “feels” are at an all time high.

That said, a lot of reporting is saying that the choice of VP doesn’t have a significant impact on election day.

IDK how that can really be true though. For the next several months Walz will be shaping the public’s opinion of Kamala. Obviously on election day people will vote for Kamala or Trump, but Walz can convince people to vote for Kamala.

KillingTimeItself ,

yeah historically that’s the case, but trump also literally picked a candidate willing to overthrow democracy as well. I think it matters more this time, because historically VP picks are almost always swing state candidates, because they generally have a lot of pull in either direction. In this case, it breaks that norm, and i think as long as it influences voters enough now, and they continue campaigning together up until the election, it should help to energize voters quite a bit.

Walz is a really good public speaker, and so is kamala, having them play off of each other is only going to further improve things IMO.

MutilationWave ,

Usually true that they don’t have much of an impact. But there are outliers. At one time in my youth there were two Republicans that I respected. Colin Powell and John McCain. I lost that respect for Powell when he went on TV and lied to get us into Iraq war 2.

But to the point, I lost my respect for John McCain when he took Sarah Palin as his running mate. We’ll never know but it very well could have cost him the election.

captainlezbian ,

Idk I’m a zennial and Walz hits right in the Midwest of it all. I’d be voting for Kamala for sure and I’m excited for a female president, especially one that isn’t Hillary, but to my young urban Midwestern tendencies walz feels like a guy who’d brag about how cheap his couch was before making a quip about it not being cheap enough to fuck Vance. He feels more Ohioan than Vance for certain.

KillingTimeItself ,

yeah i can see that, but the midwestern pride for me hits a little too strongly for me to care what he’s like other than “vaguely midwestern” lol

MutilationWave ,

I’m from Appalachia and he appeals to me on an emotional level. My dad was barely in the picture, and this guy seems like the dad I always wished I had.

The funny thing that was mentioned above is he will appeal to more centrist people, and I think that’s true even though his politics seem to be actually left of Kamala.

And the greatest living politician in national office endorsed him before he was picked.

ByteOnBikes ,

I don’t treat politicians like family members. I’m not interested in that.

I want boring politics. I want them to not fucking be in the news every time they sneeze. I want kids to get lunches. I want Americans to be able to live a comfortable life. I want immigrants to become Americans and conservative terrorism to get fucked.

I don’t want a cool aunt figure and I’m not interested in putting any of these politicians as a hat slogan or a flag.

Fuck Trump and I’m voting for Harris. But don’t get it twisted…

https://slrpnk.net/pictrs/image/185010db-cfdd-4f24-95c8-1218b918060a.jpeg

themadcodger ,
@themadcodger@kbin.earth avatar

Speaking of shit parents, I think it's relevant that they're the first non-boomer candidates (Biden technically isn't but he's close) since '92.

mosiacmango ,

Generations are roughly 20 years or so. 92-24 is 32 years.

Its pretty reasonable that over the course of that time, we would move away from the previous generations, finally into Gen X. I would expect this the last time someone from before GenX would be elected, strictly because they will all age out soon.

ByteOnBikes ,

Just like a millennial is any adult, boomer is now anybody who looks like they need to be in a retirement home. And Biden is absolutely it.

Unfortunately Walz has Boomer look about him. But hopefully he’s cool boomer.

HK65 ,

While Trump is the weird granddad who really went off the deep end, and Vance the creepy uncle who you don’t trust leaving alone in your home with your couch.

Wahots ,
@Wahots@pawb.social avatar

I’m pretty tolerant of other people’s beliefs, but I draw the line at people who sodomize couches. /s :)

vulgarcynic ,
@vulgarcynic@sh.itjust.works avatar

Hetero-sectionals scare me.

JimSamtanko ,

Why is manhood even an issue?

slickgoat ,

Because, maga manhood is racist, mysognist, hateful and toxic.

orbular ,

Because women entered the workforce and can be both providers and caregivers, but in general men don’t want to embrace an identity as caregiver so point the blame at women and/or the world.

MutilationWave ,

The generations of men that raised gen x and millennial boys were often all about being a manly man. The media we watched as children and young adults was all about it. This vision of manliness was all about physical strength, lack of emotion other than anger, and pride. Physical strength isn’t a bad quality, and pride can be good, but what we were taught by men in person and media was dogshit. We were the generations that called things that were lame “gay”.

So Walz, despite being a trained soldier and football coach, is not manly because he displays emotion, empathy, and humility.

This is why it’s an issue.

angrystego ,

I would add that he is not manly only according to those twisted standards. The point is he IS very obviously manly and can therefore reset the toxic standards in people and make them see manliness is compatible with compassion and emotions

Etterra ,

People tend to emulate people they like and who they’d like to like them too. So there’s the hateful, angry, violent manhood that flock to Trump, valuing force, violence, and any-means-necessary victory. Then there’s cool manhood that has a happy family and a respectable job and treats people with human decency and kindness.

It’s the difference between the highschool football player who bullies everyone and date rapes the prom queen, and the chill football player everybody likes, had a normal girlfriend, and who sticks up for other kids.

Which would you rather be a role model for America?

hot_guava ,

I’ll probably regret this, but for shits and giggles, I’m going to try and give an earnest answer here.

Let’s first assume that “manhood” is a thing. That there are people in the world who define themselves by gender roles, however those manifest. It might be biology, appearance, dress, behavior, profession or any number of other ways that someone chooses to manifest a gender role.

So if we accept that, there’s a lot of ways of approaching what western society might call “manhood”: machismo, aggression, breadwinning, vinyl collecting, having the best lawn in the suburbs, etc. This is where things get dicey, in my opinion. The right is full of angry men who feel slighted by a society that they feel increasingly has no place for them. In some ways they are right: men are less likely to have education past high school, less likely to have modern workforce skills and less likely to have their formerly tolerated bullshit accepted anymore. This has lead to the rise of what people often refer to as “toxic masculinity”. People who lean into traits like misogyny or racism and follow leaders who make them feel tough, like they are in the driver’s seat again.

I think the appeal of Walz is that he gives at least the appearance of another path. He’s a man, no question. He hunts, he fishes, he works on his pickup truck, he coached football, and he taught social studies. But he’s also championed reproductive rights, LGBT causes, and even took a fairly light hand during the BLM protests in 2020 (which can be easily twisted, unfortunately). He’s the kind of pro-labor and pro-rural progressive that started to get marginalized in the 2000s, was on it’s death bed when the Tea Party ascended and that MAGA seemed to finally bury.

So yes, manhood is an issue because that seems to be a major part of the ethos that is following the alt-right. But Walz is a man that a lot of men can see themselves in: men who work, love their families and who want government to support their lives, not some fantasy they wish existed. Government that does infrastructure, public safety, boring stuff that we used to not have to think about. And because he’s done all those “manly” things he feels like the old fashioned man that a lot on the alt-right claim to want back, while showing them that old fashioned man is not what they think it is.

So there it is. I admire Walz. He’s not perfect, but neither am I. I hope he doesn’t disappoint me.

JimSamtanko ,

Well fucking said! Thank you!

rusticus ,

If you’re a racist and sexist, giving an appearance of strength and dominance is your core identity.

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

Walz’s military background and his work as a high school teacher and football coach, along with his palpable joy and open expressions of compassion for people in need, offer America a vision of what manhood can look like — he’s a “joyful warrior” offering a vision in contrast with what’s being offered by Donald Trump’s bravado-driven campaign.

Manhood is when you serve in the military and play football. Really open and progressive ideas here.

SteveFromMySpace ,

You’re missing the point. He did those things and isn’t a complete and utter tool as a result. They aren’t his identity or opportunities to “be manly.” They were acts of service.

Think of it this way: if someone wanted you to meet their 60 year white American man friend who served 2 decades in the military and coached high school football, would your immediate assumption be you’re about to meet someone like Walz? Most of us have a lot of bad assumptions about that person out the gate before meeting them.

Then it turns out they actually have a pretty progressive record as a governor. Look at his record, not the stereotypes of where he came from. That’s the point.

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

You’re missing the point. He did those things and isn’t a complete and utter tool as a result. They aren’t his identity or opportunities to “be manly.” They were acts of service.

You’re missing the underlying assumption, which is that military and football are for men. They’re “typical man things” and Walz is showing that a man doing manly things doesn’t have to be an asshole.

But that still assumes there are manly things, that armed service and football are manly. Subtext.

SteveFromMySpace ,

That’s a parallel but distinct discussion and I agree that these things fall under very gendered assumptions.

Telodzrum ,

It doesn’t assume that they are “typically manly” it observes that they are traditionally considered manly. A statement over which there isn’t an argument to be had.

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

It presents traditionally manly things as a “vision of what manhood can look like” as if it’s revolutionary. It’s trite.

Telodzrum ,

Quite the opposite, it’s a strong and brave position to take when the most visible champions of “manhood” are people who view it as a synonym for mean and dominant— see the current GOP ticket.

People like Gov. Walz stand in distinct and deliberate contrast to this. It’s not trite at all it’s earnest and inviting.

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

And yet I still think Pete Buttigieg would not get to be a vision of manhood if he were the Vice candidate.

Telodzrum ,

He absolutely would, strong mayor who grew up in the Midwest doing the same sort of stuff Walz did. Pete has a very impressive military career and is a proud father and husband. He’s not a football coach, but has often talked about his love of the game (hard not to love it when you’re the mayor of South Bend). And he’s downright vicious in his “Midwest nice” approach to media hits. Dude’s an amazing picture of all that masculinity can be.

Cadeillac ,
@Cadeillac@lemmy.world avatar

Between their username and playing the Buttigieg Card (I have no problems with Pete) I think you are wasting your time

Telodzrum ,

You’re probably not wrong, but I’m not busy today.

Badabinski ,

If the root commentor is being serious, then I think it might be a trauma thing. Their profile specifically calls out being queer, and I can imagine many scenarios in someone's past where conversations about being "masculine" or "manly" were... un-fun, let's say. I know I felt some uneasiness as I initially read the headline and article summary due to my own childhood experiences. I've been told to "grow a pair" and "be a man" too many times for conversations around masculinity to be easy, and that's as a bi cis man (I can sometimes appear to conform to the societal norms while being true to myself). I'm sure that it'd be much harder for someone who is gay, nonbinary, or a trans woman.

I dunno. I see trauma in so many things nowadays. Maybe it's there in this case, maybe it's not, but I figured I'd call it out. Their trauma and the responsibility for managing it and healing from it belongs solely to them if it exists. If they're being a bad faith actor, then they can fuck off.

Cadeillac ,
@Cadeillac@lemmy.world avatar

I sympathize, but we are on the same team. They are lashing out at a strawman

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

Don’t you see how your vision of what masculinity can be still focuses on his military service and his love of football?

Maybe he could be accepted by patriarchal heterocisnormative society as an example of masculinity. Maybe. I don’t think it would go that way. I think he’d be treated like a model minority and “one of the good ones”, used to denigrate other gay men for not being sufficiently masculine. His traditionally masculine qualities would be played up and anything that subverted that would be downplayed and ignored.

Play up his role as husband and father, play down his actually existing husband, etc.

Quill7513 ,

I think he would. He’s a gay man who served in the military and is currently starting a family. And he’s been doing that. He’s been doing the TV circuit railing against JD Vance trying to be who defines what masculinity and family values are and emphasizing that all it takes to be a man is to self identify as one, and all it takes to be a family is love

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

Most media outlets wouldn’t treat him that way because he has a husband, sexist coverage would ensure people only focus on how he’s violating masculine norms instead of portraying his masculinity as legitimate.

MutilationWave ,

That’s probably true. But he’s doing it anyway. I don’t even like the guy but that’s pretty manly going in the face of adversity like that.

Quill7513 ,

And the outlets he’s going on aren’t challenging him. They’re just giving him a platform. It seems like for the most part (except when he goes on Fox, but that’s not “mainstream”) the media outlets are totally accepting Pete Buttigieg is a form of manly. I think we’re actually having a national dialog right now about what it means to be manly. Even this years big pop culture moment of Kendrick v Drake has centered around what it means to be a man (at least in part) with the winning side saying what it means to be a man is to live authentically and not to perform masculinity. I get where the thread starter is coming from that we shouldn’t need this national dialog, because we should be treating people as people and not as totems, but American politics and media culture are intrinsically totemic in nature and so we have to have these national dialogs every so often even if the majority is already advanced beyond that. The fact is that people awaken to truths slower than others because of the cultural context they exist in, and right now the feminist and men’s liberation movement have a major opportunity to take center stage and show what preferred pronouns, gender identity, and acceptance are about.

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

It’s positive but he isn’t being portrayed as manly or daddy the way Tim Walz is, though, and I do think that comes down to sexism - specifically patriarchal heterocisnormativity. He’s gets to be a model minority, that’s it.

Quill7513 ,

I will take this into advisement and speak more openly about Pete Buttigieg being manly

Zink ,

It’s trite to decent people of the world, sure. But for maga types who associate traditionally manly things with asshole behavior, aggression, anger, bigotry, being emotionally distant, and ignoring one’s own flaws rather than working on them? They could learn a thing or two if they actually paid attention.

flicker ,

Lacking originality is exactly what one might argue “traditional” means.

Quill7513 ,

You’re still missing the point. The “vision of what manhood can look like” isn’t his military service or his football coaching. It’s everything that isn’t that. It’s realizing that things that traditionally have or haven’t existed in the commonly accepted vision of what manhood is don’t have to be. It’s recognizing that Tim Walz self identifies as man, and he lives an authentic life that includes all manner of interests and cares that aren’t “traditionally manly.” The first step to realizing that manhood is socially constructed is celebrating men who are vast pools beyond that. You and I already know that, but America at large doesn’t. It’s like how Auntie Diaries is an extremely progressive rap song while being basically where we’ve been since at least a decade. It’s not so much about where everyone is, but about where everyone is.

queermunist ,
@queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

You’re missing my point, which is that he is recognized for his military service and coaching as a way to justify his other qualities.

If he was a professional dancer and long time peace activist he would not be celebrated as manly or daddy.

blackbelt352 , (edited )

While more progressive people have recognized the pointlessness of gendering military service and playing football, conservatives haven’t and its something we can use to our advantage. Like the entire calling them weird thing. It’s literally the kind of insult a 5 year old would come up with but they’re absolutely blowing gaskets over it and it’s hilarious.

Know your enemy and you’ll have the advantage.

thisbenzingring ,

If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.

Sun Tzu, The Art of War

I had to add the whole English version quote because just saying know your enemy isn’t really what this phrase represents.

blackbelt352 ,

I was paraphrasing but yeah. Nothing will surprise you if you know how your enemy operates.

thisbenzingring ,

I have found the Art of War so useful in day to day work. Understanding your work life like it’s a mental battlefield was so relieving and has helped me explain things to people that are hard to understand. I absolutely encourage everyone to read it once, at least. If only to understand that phrase we are throwing around right now and how important it truly is.

Ilovemyirishtemper ,

I’ve had this book sitting on my shelf for years, but I think your comment might be what makes me read it. I always thought of it as only applicable to wars or competitions of some sort, but you’re right. I live in the rat race every day, and it definitely is a battlefield, and I would like to know my enemy and myself better.

thisbenzingring ,

Some of it is a little boring but the overall concepts are revolutionary, and if you apply them to everyday life it is a huge advantage. Especially if you see it being applied to you by your adversary.

magnetosphere ,
@magnetosphere@fedia.io avatar

TIL Sun Tzu knew about kill/death ratios

tortina_original ,

You are missing the point.

That’s what MAGA assumes.

And Walz is there to prove their assumptions wrong.

I can also tell you that most military personnel I met in my life were not ‘manly’ people in any way. Just normal and decent people.

It’s MAGA mongoloids that link military to manhood. Or guns. Or football. Or beer.

Edit: and what is really amusing to me is that zi am not American, nor life there, but I did get excited about Walz. Because he seems like a normal human being. Imagine how crazy the world is when we get excited about (apparently) a normal human being in politics.

VaalaVasaVarde ,

In this case Tim appeals to those with conservative views, and it could be that some men and women can be swayed.

The hard core magats probably see him as a wuss, because “men can only attack” or some crap like that.

dhork ,

You’re missing the point. He did those things and isn’t a complete and utter tool as a result. They aren’t his identity or opportunities to “be manly.” They were acts of service.

I think the most egregious examples of “toxic masculinity” are the men who think that since they’re so Alpha, the world owes them everything on their own terms. Like the President who us so upset that the hurricane went the other way that he has to “prove” he was right all along. Or the Senator who prefers to be called “Coach” because he likes to think of himself as the Big Man On Campus, and not 1 of 100 equals. Or even the incel living in his parents’ basement who is so bitter about not having a girlfriend because he can’t understand that girls are humans too and don’t exist just to please him.

Walz is refreshing because it’s clear that he went into Politics to make a difference, not to make a profit. We’ve been conditioned to think all politicians are greedy assholes, probably by the politicians who prefer it that way because it lets them get away with shit. Then this guy comes along, with genuine integrity, and it threatens to collapse it all.

Republicans have built a political movement out of the belief that all government is bloated and ineffectual. If Democrats start electing people who can show that Government can be a net benefit to ordinary people, it kills 50+ years of Republican messaging.

SteveFromMySpace ,

Well said

kent_eh ,

Republicans have built a political movement out of the belief that all government is bloated and ineffectual

They complain about that when they’re not in power, and then demonstrate exactly that whenever they happen to be in power.

Quill7513 ,

They make it true so they can continue to claim it

snooggums ,
@snooggums@midwest.social avatar

Can’t finish a single sentence?

zarkanian , (edited )
@zarkanian@sh.itjust.works avatar

He served in the military and then dipped out before the Iraq War started. Vance thinks it gives him points to have gone to Iraq when Walz hasn’t. It doesn’t. Vance participated in an illegal, immoral invasion. Walz was smart enough to GTFO.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Looking forward to the Republican who badmouths Walz for being a football coach, only to be reminded of Tommy Tuberville.

Soggy ,

Fuck Petey Potatotown. And unfortunately the GOP isn’t concerned about being hypocritical.

KillingTimeItself ,

so far the worst they’ve had to say is that he’s left leaning. Oh no, he likes queer people having rights, what ever will we do.

I think every other significant dig has turned into a meme almost immediately so it’s not working very well.

Quill7513 ,

They’re also trying to claim he’s a coward for not serving in the military long enough. 24 years is apparently a short timeframe in the eyes of a republican

KillingTimeItself ,

he served for 9 years in the military, and then transferred to the national guard, is what im reading.

This also ignores that trump was a vietnam draft dodger…

Quill7513 ,

Even Vance with his honorable discharge doesn’t have the service record the man he attacked has…

KillingTimeItself ,

yeah, it’s certainly a hard pressed point to make the argument on, but not like most conservatives would care anyways. Though to be fair, none of them were voting for kamala either anyway lmao.

tigeruppercut ,

Over on r conservative they’ve got nothing to say about his actual policies. I’m just surprised the guy mentioning the horse thing got downvoted

https://lemmy.zip/pictrs/image/b6274491-8f94-4ac3-8662-f3ede2d42695.webp

KillingTimeItself ,

yeah makes sense, republicans dont even run on policy anymore, so it’s quite literally a crippled platform, they can only scream and yell about shit that makes them mad.

As for the horse cum thing, i think anybody that says that needs to be perma banned. It’s insane to me that it’s even gathering friction, and i won’t take satire as a answer for unironically stating that someone drinks horse cum this time.

bitchkat ,

When Walz is presiding over the Senate, the should start calling him coach.

qjkxbmwvz ,

As much as I think a “would you like to have a beer with the candidates?” is a stupid way of measuring things…I wouldn’t mind having a beer with these candidates.

Quill7513 ,

Especially because Trump and Vance would roofie your beer

nucleative ,

Then leave you with the bill

SteveFromMySpace ,

Then tell everyone you didn’t show up and they don’t even drink beer.

thefartographer ,

“I don’t even know beer”

Brett Cavanaugh tears intensify

Thebeardedsinglemalt , (edited )

They’d show up late, drink too much too fast, try to order off your tab, ramble about bullshit conspiracy theories and talk over you at every opportunity, act like a sleeze to the waitress and get too handsy. Then they’d want to play pool but refuses to rack, blames the cue or someone in their field of view for their bad shots but does anything to try and distract you, hits the ball off the table multiple times but tries to get constant do-overs, claims every time you hit it’s a scratch and quote obscure rules, at least once they try to sneak one of their balls in the pocket when it’s your turn, when they lose they just toss their cue onto the pool table or lean it against instead of putting it away, and spends the next 45 minutes constantly saying how they should have won…

tryagain ,

I need to hear more about this date.

Drunemeton ,
@Drunemeton@lemmy.world avatar

That was oddly specific wasn’t it!? 😂

Ilovemyirishtemper ,

Specific, but somehow also universal? I feel like I’ve seen this scene play out at least a half dozen times in my life.

skuzz ,

Hey now, let’s be honest. Vance would roofie the bar stool.

andallthat ,

and Trump would just… “your beer? Haven’t seen it. There’s just MY two glasses of beer here. A great beer, the greatest. My uncle invented beer, Fred Budweiser Trump. Great IQ, very good genes!”

0ops ,

It’s basically a type of couch

nondescripthandle ,

He’s probably slip it some stool softener too.

Mossheart ,

Isn’t a stool softener just a cushion? Sounds like this stool is becoming more and more like a couch…

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

How dare you! Why are you besmirching the fine name of JD Vance by suggesting he would roofie a bar stool.

Couches. He fucks couches. And they’re asking for it by being all sexy.

dhork ,

Walz says he has given up alcohol entirely after his DUI years ago. But I bet Harris is super fun once she gets into the box of wine in the fridge.

thefartographer ,

Harris seems like she enjoys a reasonably priced bottle of wine that delivers on flavor and novelty. Waltz seems like he’s sipped some of the world’s most expensive wines but buys boxed wine to prove that you can party on a budget.

jmcs ,

Nowadays there are plenty of decent alcohol free beers, so a beer with Walz is still not off the table (pun not initially intended, but I’ll own it).

nondescripthandle ,

It’s not that stupid of a lens to use to evaluate candidates. But it is absolutely overused and overvalued. Sure it’s a good thing knowing you can relate enough to sit down and be comfortable but it doesn’t really tells us too much on it’s own, and depends a lot on who says it; for example a fascist voter would probably love to site down with a fascist politician.

MutilationWave ,

When I was young I used to say “Don’t trust a person who doesn’t drink”.

Now that I’m older I’ll amend it- “Don’t trust a person who doesn’t drink without a good reason.”

taiyang ,

The irony is both Walz and Trump don’t drink alcohol (unsure why Trump doesn’t but I found it frustrating since I don’t drink and want nothing on common with the guy lol). Harris and Vance probably do drink though, and Harris wins there as she is probably a giggly drunk. Vance is probably just an annoying drunk. Not mean, but perhaps more whiny about rural folks he hates and maybe a like tech bro vibe.

Of course, that’s of you that this bar literally; it obviously means “who would you rather hang out with” and to me, that means “who would you rather play Super Smash Bros Melee with after school” and the Harris/Walz camp got that beat. Plus I’m only letting Walz bring the mountain dew, last time Vance did and we all passed out-- you know how expensive it is getting upholstery cleaned? Big oof.

aesthelete ,

unsure why Trump doesn’t

I’ve heard that one of his brothers was an alcoholic and that turned him off of it.

Quill7513 ,

His dad destroyed both him and his brother, and his brother turned to alcohol to soothe the pain. DJT watched this and placed the ENTIRE blame on booze, which may or may not be fair. I don’t know if his brother could have turned it around. Not drinking can be a healthy decision (it certainly has been for me, it was a hard choice and one that has made my life better for every single one of the 6 years I haven’t been drinking), but I don’t think DJT has confronted his demons properly because his generation doesn’t do that. He may have been worse with alcohol in the mix, but the fact is I don’t think alcohol is what destroyed his brother. His brother was destroyed by the same thing that destroyed him: trauma.

MutilationWave ,

I wish so much I could find a comment about this on the old site. It said “Donald Trump does not drink alcohol” and every word was a link to a real photo of him with an alcoholic drink in hand. I tried searching but Google has turned to shit and the images are all Photoshop shit.

taiyang ,

Wouldn’t be surprised given he’s a habitual liar, but on the other hand it is a “weird” trait. And he most assuredly has done coke so it’s not like he’s a saint, lol.

idiomaddict ,

I also love that the weirdest thing about him (word choice intentional) is his preferred beverage of diet Mountain Dew, which Vance also drinks instead of coffee.

lolcatnip ,

Now I’ve got “Diet Mountain Dew” by Lana del Rey stuck in my head.

fine_sandy_bottom ,

This is so bizarre.

Mountain Dew instead of coffee is just… IDK.

MutilationWave ,

Yeah coffee is almost zero calorie and it can be really good. Mountain Dew ain’t great and diet dew is fucking gross.

N0body ,

Even down to a caveman level, the role of a strong man was to be the protector of the tribe/family. Using your strength to protect others is what makes a strong man.

Inflicting your insecurities on others and feeding your ego by attacking vulnerable people are the actions of a bully, not a strong man.

JimmyBigSausage ,

Said so well!!

Huschke ,

Coincidently the latter are the traits of a strongman though. So remember kids, be a strong man not a strongman.

lolcatnip ,

I like that Spanish has the word caudillo, which approximately means strongman and is not easily confused with anything else. It’s almost always applied to Latin American leaders (like Maduro) but it seems like exactly what Trump aspires to be.

bravesirrbn ,

I thought strongman was about lifting, pulling, carrying or even throwing heavy things?

MutilationWave ,

In case you’re not kidding it’s a form of government exemplified by Putin, Maduro, Xi, and if he got the chance, Trump.

inbeesee ,

We need more good male role models. People with tender hearts and rough hands.

EatATaco ,

and rough hands.

What do you mean by this? It sounds borderline, if not outright, like toxic masculinity. There’s nothing about the shape of your hands that has anything to do about how good of a role model you are as a dad.

Ilovemyirishtemper ,

The idea is not actually about a man’s physical hands. It’s a metaphor for putting in the work. That could be volunteering, going to bat for your community, spending quality time with your kids/grandkids/family, working long hours to make sure your family has what it needs to survive, etc.

Yes, some men do manual labor and have rough hands, but OP isn’t saying that all men should do manual labor, just that they should all put in the “work” to make the world, their community, and their family’s lives better.

EatATaco ,

It’s a metaphor for putting in the work.

Hopefully this is the case, but it sounds an awful lot like “strong blue collar dad is good, white collar dad bad” to me.

MutilationWave ,

It’s how I take it. Sometimes physically but always metaphorically.

Like I bet Steve Wozniak has physically soft hands but he put in the work. He’s just as righteous as a person whose hands are rough from all the physical work they did providing for others.

nondescripthandle ,

‘MAGA choked up, struggling with Walz’s manhood’

brown567 ,

How’s that gag order treating ya, Donnie?

Nuke_the_whales ,

Maga chokes on Tim’s manhood

assassin_aragorn ,

“Republicans turned off by the size of Obama’s package” vibes

Wahots ,
@Wahots@pawb.social avatar

Was this an actual headline? Hahah

assassin_aragorn ,

Sure was!

Jackfinished ,

Is that a ‘full throated’ endorsement? Hear that’s popular with the MAGA crowd.

SoJB ,

AIPAC sponsored drunk driving genocide enthusiasts are liberals’ idea of positive masculinity?

This explains a lot.

rezifon ,

You’re acting weird

SkyezOpen ,

You’re right. I better vote for Trump I guess.

LeFantome ,

You gave it your best shot

Notyou ,

Man, these trolls sure are funny this election season.

Iheartcheese ,
@Iheartcheese@lemmy.world avatar

Dad energy

lennybird ,
@lennybird@lemmy.world avatar

I read somewhere else a woman who said, “Walz represents all the dads we used to have but lost to Fox News.”

cheese_greater ,

Maybe that can help counter the nostalgia and hate that drives Trump’s demographic

Track_Shovel ,
@Track_Shovel@slrpnk.net avatar

God damn, that’s heart wrenching.

frankgrimeszz , (edited )

deep inhale “Doooooooodge…… Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaall”

youtu.be/bYz7-BRMbq0

xc2215x ,

Tim has been a great choice.

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