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cyborganism ,

I don’t understand you people in this thread.

Ever since the debate, people have been calling for Joe Biden to step down from the presidential race and give the place to someone else.

Now I read the comments and everyone is criticizing and accusing the Democrats of not knowing what they’re doing? Are you for real? They’re doing EXACTLY what people have been asking for. They’re doing EXACTLY what needs to be done if they want to win.

Fucking hell you guys, make up your fucking mind.

Sincerely,

A Canadian with severe anxiety over your next presidential election.

alvvayson ,

Well, to be fair, he should have stepped down a year ago, or at least 3 months ago. I vaguely remember him saying he was going to be a 1 term candidate in 2020.

Anyway, I respect Biden. I honestly think he was a better president than Obama, Bush, Trump and Clinton. Perhaps the best since Carter or JFK.

dual_sport_dork ,
@dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world avatar

I vaguely remember him saying he was going to be a 1 term candidate in 2020.

You’re correct, he did. Everyone forgot that for some reason. Note that this article is from 2019:

www.politico.com/news/…/biden-single-term-082129

Blackbeard ,
@Blackbeard@lemmy.world avatar

Another top Biden adviser put it this way: “He’s going into this thinking, ‘I want to find a running mate I can turn things over to after four years but if that’s not possible or doesn’t happen then I’ll run for reelection.’ But he’s not going to publicly make a one term pledge.”

That source does not say what you’re claiming it says.

PM_Your_Nudes_Please ,

Which is ironic, because he picked Harris then used her as the bearer of bad news at every single opportunity.

shasta ,

So add those together and it implies he doesn’t think Harris has the chops. But, to be fair, if that was actually the plan, they would’ve given her much more PR over the last 4 years.

dariusj18 ,

If it weren’t Trump running I think he would have stepped aside. He believed in 2019, and probably still believes now, that he has the best chance against Trump and that Trump is a singularly existential threat.

ChaoticEntropy ,
@ChaoticEntropy@feddit.uk avatar

It feels like they have explicitly tried to prevent Kamala from getting positive coverage throughout.

merc ,

it implies he doesn’t think Harris has the chops

Or that he changed his mind. Or that his assurances to aides that he wouldn’t run for a second term were just to shut them up.

Power is seductive, and I think it’s pretty likely that once he became president, he convinced himself that he was still the best one for the job, and that he uniquely deserved to continue to govern.

vxx ,

Well, he didn’t lie.

OldWoodFrame ,

He very specifically did not say publicly that he would be a 1 term president. Talking through the idea with aides and someone leaking it does not equal a campaign promise.

This is a new decision, obviously. He is going to be a 1 term president. But he never promised it.

MegaUltraChicken ,

abcnews.go.com/Politics/…/story?id=67662497

bolexforsoup ,

Your own source contradicts this claim…doesn’t look like we forgot about anything.

MegaUltraChicken ,

I vaguely remember him saying he was going to be a 1 term candidate in 2020.

He specifically denied that when asked. To be fair he did say he was a “bridge to a new generation” or something, that’s where I think a lot of people are getting this one term commitment thing from.

abcnews.go.com/Politics/…/story?id=67662497

spaghettiwestern ,

Biden definitely learned something from watching the Republicans screw Obama again and again.

GreyEyedGhost ,

All the sane countries can do their elections in less than a year, possibly because the stagecoach is no longer the best transportation or communication option anymore. If you guys didn’t run it like American Fucking Idol, maybe it wouldn’t be this difficult.

Now I’ll go sit in the corner and hope for the best for you guys while waiting to see if my country shits the bed in a year.

njm1314 ,

Yes some of us been paying attention to who is backing him and who wasn’t. Some of us had noticed that all the leftists in the party were still behind Joe Biden while all the neoliberals weren’t. Some of us have noticed that the president who has protected worker rights and expanded consumer protection and wants to tax the wealthy is getting pushed out by the corporate Democrats.

archomrade ,

None of those things matter if he can’t campaign effectively to beat his opponent.

njm1314 ,

That’s true, which is why I’m voting for whoever replaces them. I just can’t view this as a victory.

dank ,

Lol. Yeah, leftists have famously supported Genocide Joe unconditionally. /s

Deceptichum ,
@Deceptichum@quokk.au avatar

They probably think liberals are leftists.

SnotFlickerman ,
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

abcnews.go.com/Politics/…/story?id=112129063

Because it will be contested.

ShepherdPie ,

Just like everything else? They also contested the 2020 election but that doesn’t mean they actually had the truth or law on their side. I don’t know why you’re giving any weight to what Mike Johnson says.

dvoraqs ,

The Democratic candidate is chosen at the convention, which hasn’t happened yet. What would a legal contest even be based on?

catloaf ,

It doesn’t matter. They can make up whatever justification they want and drag it through the court system. Maybe they get it up to the Supreme Court and get the win handed to them like in Bush v. Gore.

Zaktor ,

If you think things are that off the rails then it doesn’t matter whether this is the inciting event or something else because they’re completely disconnected from even the premise of law.

catloaf ,

It certainly seems to be that way.

Clinicallydepressedpoochie ,

Booooo

NocturnalMorning ,

I didn’t say any of that. With only four months until the election, I think this is kind of dumb.

TSG_Asmodeus ,
@TSG_Asmodeus@lemmy.world avatar

It absolutely blows my (Canadian) mind that four months is considered ‘short’ for a campaign.

kautau ,

Do you elect new leaders every three months?

ECB ,

In most European countries governments are elected for 3-6 years (though they may end up happening more frequently since, most places, it’s possible to call early elections). The campaigning only really happens for 1-2 months before the election.

The fact that the US essentially spends 1.5-2 years campaigning for a 4 year position is insanity to me!

kautau , (edited )

That’s pretty interesting, thanks for sharing. It probably also has to do with a more strict balance of power. Our president is now our king, but really it’s only the presidential election that has constant campaigning for the next election. It’s ok now though, we’ll no longer need that, as our king will choose the next one

aesthelete ,

Our president is now our king, but really it’s only the presidential election that has constant campaigning for the next election.

This isn’t really true. Campaigning takes up a large amount of time for even house members. They have two year terms and they spend much of that fending off primary challenges and then campaigning for the general election.

kautau ,

Maybe that’s internal? I don’t see much house or senate campaigning until the months lead up to the elections (ad spends, yard signs, rallies, etc) though I will agree they are likely working on it the whole time

aesthelete ,

It’s portions internal for sure, but yeah it’s happening the whole time basically. Increasingly all elections are becoming nationalized and about national issues rather than something about the actual locality being “served”.

Most house politicians spend all of the time they aren’t in Washington doing fundraising and other campaign related activities. Some (like AOC) try to actually help their communities during these times and fundraise or organize on that basis.

kautau ,

Makes sense. I wish more politicians would combine fundraising or organizing with ways to help those they were voted to represent.

WhiskyTangoFoxtrot ,

It’s also not true because, in England/the UK, at least, the King was established as not being above the law by the Magna Carta and when Charles I tried to dispute that they cut his head off. The autocracy that the USA is setting up is far worse than a monarchy.

Strykker ,

No but the canadian entire election cycle lasts about 2

dave ,
@dave@feddit.uk avatar

UK just went from announcement to election day in 6 weeks. But then, there wasn’t much point dragging it out any longer, was there Rishi ;)

TSG_Asmodeus ,
@TSG_Asmodeus@lemmy.world avatar

No.

Clinicallydepressedpoochie ,

Boooooo I support this move!

timewarp ,
@timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

Dumb to not let Trump win? Cause that is what was going to happen if he stayed in.

NocturnalMorning ,

Oh, you have a crystal ball and already saw what happened in the future?

timewarp ,
@timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

Yes I do. Thanks for asking.

catloaf ,

Those are not necessarily the same people.

But there is no good option here. The good option would have been to run a good candidate over a year ago. That time has obviously long since passed.

MelodiousFunk ,

The good option would have been to run a good candidate over a year ago.

“Eight years ago” is indeed “over a year ago.”

dead horse pummeling sounds

CileTheSane ,
@CileTheSane@lemmy.ca avatar

The US “election cycle” is insane. You don’t need to be running a candidate over a year before the election. 3 months is more than enough time to tell people who your candidate is and what they are running on, and you have more than 3 months.

Yes, it would have been better to announce earlier, but jesus christ he is too fucking old for this shit. Stepping back now is still better than pushing through.

Tryptaminev ,

The longer the cycle is made, the more people can be distracted from the actual politics and the more it matters who gets the most money.

Zaktor ,

Especially with how calcified the voting population is. Each candidate has something like a 44% floor of people who already know they’re going to vote for “the Democratic candidate” and the only question is how many of them actually go to the polls and what the remaining randos decide. And only in a handful of swing states. Most of the system is already predetermined.

takeda ,

Well now we have an old fascist, convicted felon, geezer that has no business running the country.

dpkonofa ,

Bro, we start selling a Christmas decorations in July in the US. People need to be making money off this shit.

tburkhol ,

You can’t just launder $2B of campaign contributions overnight. You need a year or two to filter it credibly through pundits, consultants, pollsters, and advertisers.

localme ,

I agree the timeframe isn’t the main issue. It’s more concerning that the nominee isn’t getting selected through the primaries/caucuses where actual voters are involved in choosing the nominee.

apprehensively_human ,

One thing I appreciate about Canadian elections is how quickly they happen. An election is called, campaigning is like a month or two and then we find out the new government just hours after casting our votes.

WoahWoah ,

You’re a non-global superpower with a total population smaller than California, 90% of which lives 100 miles or less from the US border. It would be bizarre if your elections were as complicated as the United States.

CileTheSane ,
@CileTheSane@lemmy.ca avatar

Are American politicians visiting each citizen individually? The internet exists, population size does not limit how quickly you can get information out.

porous_grey_matter ,

This is your brain on American exceptionalism lmao

WoahWoah ,

The United States isn’t an exception here. There are many other countries with larger populations and/or that have dramatic geopolitical influence. Canada just isn’t one of them.

TheTetrapod ,

Isn’t the UK’s voting process basically identical to Canada’s?

takeda ,

US elections are definitively complicated, but for no good reason. It is a lot because of the complex old laws, traditions, first-past-the-post and that primary elections don’t happen together but individually in different states over a period of one year.

If we would just use the popular vote to decide the election and use ranked choice voting we would have election done much faster and would pickup a candidate, that most people would be happy with.

RCV already showed in Alaska that it makes it very hard for the least desirable candidate to win when there are two better candidates that people are divided over (i.e. with FPTP Palin (who most Alaskans hate) would normally win)

Krauerking ,

It’s been chaos in the comments for a while now this is just catharsis for a lot of people and reaffirming for some of the naysayers.
You are gonna see a lot of takes from a lot of terminally online types.

Now just comes the actual work and it’s gonna look chaotic for a while. I hope we get it together.

archomrade ,

You’re seeing the people who either didn’t agree he should step down or agreed but didn’t think they’d actually do it.

takeda ,

IMO what is happening are disinformation bots trying to discourage people from voting.

It was first that you should stay home and not vote, because Democrats put an “old geezer who is not aware what is happening around him”, now the same bots will be saying how Democrats were cheated by deciding their candidate without input of the voters, trying to replicate the upset that was over Bernie in 2016.

IMO I think Biden was excellent at governing, and no one will be as good as him when taking with foreign leaders, as he knew them all and had a good relation with them.

Having said that I will be voting for whomever Democrats put up (Kamala or anyone). I already got fooled to vote 3rd party in 2016 and won’t make the same mistake.

Someonelol ,
@Someonelol@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

All of this should have been done a couple years ago for presidential hopefuls to gather resources and prepare for the elections. The assumption that Biden was seeking a second term stalled a lot of minor steps needed to build a campaign. Biden stepping down a month before the DNC is gonna be a shit show. Who’s gonna run for becoming a candidate? How are they gonna fundraise quickly enough to get the word out? This is a clusterfuck of poorly timed decisions and I only hope the new candidate can gather enough support to win the presidential election. Given the Democratic party’s penchant of favoring people from their inner circle, I doubt they’ll be well received by the general public to begin with.

Traejen ,

Non-issue. Kamala Harris is the heir apparent.

thejoker954 ,

Who is a black woman. Which means that unfortunately she has a pretty steep uphill battle to win the presidency.

In fact I think it would drive more of the non voting republicans to the polls.

lagomorphlecture ,

Honest question, are there that many non voting Republicans? They tend to be pretty rabid.

whoreticulture ,

Obama won pretty hard though despite the racism, there were more people excited to see a black president than there were racists (although obviously there as a lot of vocal racism as well).

If Kamala tells a convincing story, I could see it working well.

Tacos_y_margaritas ,

Kamala can have access to Biden’s fundraising, and now all the GOP talking points are mute. I think it’s actually quite effective if they run Kamala. Also, she will eviscerate Trump in a debate, unlike Biden.

PugJesus ,

Many of the people involved in such agitation are not arguing in good faith. They simply want to attack the ‘libs’ at every opportunity, and reality be damned.

HurlingDurling ,
@HurlingDurling@lemmy.world avatar

Not speaking for the rest of the thread, but…

  1. Biden should have said he wasn’t up for reelección since day 1
  2. The Democratic Party hasn’t known what to do since the 2016 election… at least.
projectsquared ,

I haven’t known what to do since the 2016 election. The “Fuck your feelings” bunch are clearly in their feels and ignoring documented events in what most of us call “reality “.

bolexforsoup ,

The Democratic Party hasn’t known what to do since the 2016 election…at least

The Democrats have won nationally in 2018, 2020, arguably 2022, and like 85% of special elections since 2016. What the fuck are you talking about? They’ve been basically non-stop winning elections since 2016.

HiddenLife ,

Not only that, Republicans often begin undermining their opponent’s reputation from day one, spending nearly four years focused on convincing the public that Biden is ineffective. Now, all that effort is erased at the most crucial time of the election. They no longer have years to shape public perception. This sets the stage for a fairer fight, and Harris is a more compelling speaker than Biden. I believe It was a good play.

Tacos_y_margaritas ,

I saw some articles that Trump is furious that Biden dropped out. I think Trump is very aware of this.

PM_Your_Nudes_Please ,

And yet we still don’t have abortion protections, gunshot wounds are the #1 cause of death in children, the housing market is on fire, the “minimum wage should be $15” conversation has been going on for so long that it should be nearly $30 now, there is an activist republican supermajority in the SCOTUS, and there are openly fascist candidates as republican front runners because the Overton window has shifted so far right.

Democrats haven’t been winning elections because people have been excited about good democrat candidates; They have been winning because democrat voters are terrified of a republican in office.

takeda ,

Biden was perfectly fine and IMO and him and his team do an excellent job at governing l, both domestically as well as with foreign policy (this looks like it was mostly him). He just let go of the pressure.

I would vote for him (not just against trump, but I genuinely think he was good at his job), but will vote for whomever will be the replacement (because I don’t want trump to win).

chrischryse ,

They’re doing EXACTLY what needs to be done if they want to win.

How would this help them win exactly? I’m not really well tuned with politics

lone_faerie ,

It was becoming more and more apparent that Biden didn’t stand a chance of winning, so staying in would’ve just handed the presidency to Trump. Now that he’s dropped out, the Democratic party can at least do something.

takeda ,

That was the narrative pushed by media and bots. According to www.270towin.com it doesn’t look like even assassination attempt had any impact. Also the polls really start to matter after conventions.

morphballganon ,

Lemmy posters are not a monolith.

floofloof ,

I am.

Zaktor ,

Lemmy posters are not a monolith. They are many monoliths interacting with the internet via psychic emanations from atop lonely hillocks in places where mankind fears to tread.

SpaceNoodle ,

Americans aren’t a monolith.

Kroxx ,

Personally the best news I’ve heard in a while. I think there is a little bit of a knee jerk reaction happening because a lot is on the line and people are scared because it’s such an unknown right now. When things settle more and the smoke clears I think everything will be more positive.

danc4498 ,

I’m excited AF… maybe the people you’re reading are republican plants that are just trying to make it feel like chaos.

The fact that this happened the weekend after the RNC makes me feel it was very well planned.

ashok36 ,

Lemmy, as opposed to reddit, has seemed to be very much on the Keep Biden train for some reason.

I for one will be happy with any candidate that can do two to three campaign appearances per day for the next four months and doesn’t have the Genocide Joe baggage. Everything else is gravy.

theangryseal , (edited )

I personally just said last week that I believed only Biden was capable of beating Trump, so I’m feeling pretty sick right now. God, I hope I’m wrong.

We haaaaaavvvvvve to see this example and set a damn age limit for people to hold such high positions in our country. Old dude may have very well just sent us down an irreversible and utterly destructive path by seeking the office in the first place.

I know Bernie Sanders is old too, but damn I wish he had won the nomination. We wouldn’t be in this crisis right now. Still though, it’s a gamble electing people who are already waist deep in their grave.

Man

What a strange and historic month this has been. We’re all living in a very big moment in history right now, just, all the way around.

Tacos_y_margaritas ,

I remember talking, to my liberal, Hispanic friend prior to the 2016 election. It was just before the primary and she was complaining that she didn’t really like Hilary, but she was straight up afraid of Trump. I said “what about Bernie” and she said, “Isn’t he too old?” I lost touch with her after that, and I have no idea how she ended up voting.

MataVatnik ,
@MataVatnik@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah, I actually feel good about these news. I don’t get all the criticism.

fishos ,
@fishos@lemmy.world avatar

I think part of the reason it feels like “wtf are you doing?!?” is because we were really saying “Joe needs to step the fuck up or step aside” and then in the last week he’s thrown some absolute hard hits at Trump making it look like “holy shit, we got old Joe back!”. Then suddenly after appearing to wake up, he goes “nah, I’m good.”.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad he’s stepping aside. But it’s been a bit of a rollercoaster and not a very consistent message. They kept telling us to shut up and follow Biden and anyone who doesn’t is supporting facism and then suddenly, “nah, not Biden, it’s cool”? You can’t pump a rhetoric machine up and then expect the brakes to stop it instantly.

5redie8 ,

Seriously, I was seeing banger ads I hadn’t seen from him before as recently as last night

Burstar ,

In Biden’s defence he has Covid and that probably is really making him feel his age right about now.

JJROKCZ ,

I just worry about who they select as replacement…. Unfortunately Kamala doesn’t stand a snowball’s chance in hell since she’s a non-white female, one of those features is maybe surmountable but both eliminates so many so called “centrists” from casting a blue vote to do their misogyny and bigotry.

If the democrats nominate Kamala it’s just handing Trump the win since so many of my countrymen are racist or misogynistic

ipkpjersi ,

I don’t think it’s the same people wanting him to drop out vs sad that he did drop out. Or they did want him to drop out because he’s aging but they are sad that he did because he was a good president.

splonglo ,

I think you’re remembering it wrong and comparing different groups of people.

corsicanguppy ,

people have been calling for Joe Biden to step down

everyone is criticizing and accusing the Democrats of not knowing what they’re doing

You say ‘people’ and ‘everyone’ where you may really mean to say ‘republicans’ and ‘russians’.

Frozengyro ,

I’m sure Dems too, it’s roughly half the country. Certainly a big part of them wanted him out.

takeda , (edited )

This was an astroturfing campaign covering our media and also via bots on social media.

I watched the debate and while he was slower, and mixed up words he actually was aware of US goals and challenges (despite what media tried to imply), trump was more energetic but he was constantly spewing nonsense, and while part of it was lying as usual, part of it was clear that he was actually getting lost.

I even wrote that in certain that if Biden steps down the same bots will start campaign how Democrats were cheated to discourage them from voting (like it was worth Bernie).

I’m definitively voting for Kamala now no matter what ridiculous bullshit they will come up on her on September-October (you can be sure there will be some scandal that will turnout to be nothing burger after election). I got fooled (like a lot of people) in 2016 to vote 3rd party and we got trump.

Republicans are actually a minority they can only win if they discourage enough people from voting. That’s why they are against laws that that make voting easier.

I actually was hoping Biden would run as he has great experience with foreign leaders as well as very successful reaching compromises and passing bills that otherwise wouldn’t fly.

As I say though I will 100% vote for Kamala (or whomever will be the democratic candidate), definitively not the fascist party and in fact anyone on Democrats side looks good.

noisefree ,

I got fooled (like a lot of people) in 2016 to vote 3rd party and we got trump.

So rare to see someone actually say these words outside of pointing the finger at others. Kudos.

TheDemonBuer ,
@TheDemonBuer@lemmy.world avatar

They’re not the same people.

lagomorphlecture ,

Holy shit you think you’re anxious? Some of us are stuck living here. It’s not actually that easy to emigrate to Canada (bet you guys did that for a reason…).

flying_sheep ,
@flying_sheep@lemmy.ml avatar

The comments you saw aren’t by the same people or are they?

PM_Your_Nudes_Please ,

I think people are angry about the timing. It feels like too little, too late. If he had made the decision at the beginning of the year, then sure. But now it’ll be rushed, and people won’t be able to agree on a single candidate. And people are worried that, due to the resulting lack of agreement, a split vote will hand the win to Trump.

confusedbytheBasics ,

I think it is a great time to try to take the news cycle away from Trump. Now just keep dropping big news.

ouRKaoS ,

If republicans can rush approval for a supreme court justice out of nowhere, Dems should be able to get a current VP up to POTUS status quickly.

Burstar ,

Harris has already announced her candidacy. It will be difficult for anyone else to seriously challenge. Especially if/when Biden endorses her.

Gullible ,

The internet isn’t a place to draw an understanding of politics. The internet isn’t even a place to draw an understanding of the internet.

tal ,
@tal@lemmy.today avatar

The internet isn’t even a place to draw an understanding of the internet.

RFC 751, Internet Protocol:

datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc791

Gullible ,

No way, man. My friend read that document and developed blood clots. RFK jr also recently talked about it on Joe Rogan’s podcast, where they suggested that… etc…

HawlSera ,

They’re doomers

chakan2 ,
@chakan2@lemmy.world avatar

I’m ecstatic of Biden dropping. It’s no longer a sure loss for the D’s…there’s a glimmer of hope for us after all.

DaleGribble88 ,
@DaleGribble88@programming.dev avatar

I never thought Biden was a sure loss, but I do think that Harris, et al, all stand a better chance of winning. I’m excited for this change, it feels like the DNC is trying for the first time since Obama’s first term.

StereoTrespasser ,

It’s because progressives were tripping over themselves to agree with AOC yesterday. Now that it’s been shown how out of touch she is, they are backpedaling to argue Biden should not have dropped out.

13esq ,

It’s just an anecdote, but I’ve experienced a lot of people saying “I’d vote for a dead dog over Trump”, who for some reason still wouldn’t back a democrat that didn’t look like and sound like a mummy.

Tikiporch ,

Lemmy isn’t a monolith, including the ones in this thread. I’ve seen as many people calling for him to drop out as those saying he should say. End of the day, none of us have anything valuable to say you should be relying on for insight.

EnderWiggin ,

I don’t understand you people in this thread.

Goes to show how many of these people were disingenuous and never actually wanted the party to win regardless. Some of those people operate on the far right. Some of them were just Trumpers in disguise, foreign operators, bots, etc. It’s a lot of bullshit. I’m looking forward to supporting Kamala though.

mctoasterson ,

I want to see actual demographics of the various Lemmy instances for this reason. There are tons of very loud and confident opinions but based on the simple facts they get wrong, there must be a large number of non-Americans or edgy teens who can’t vote or wouldn’t vote anyway.

Juigi ,

I mean many here openly support Putin too, what can you do

PugJesus ,

It’s fun, Lemmy having an option for searching user comments. See a user make a suss comment? Search their comments for ‘Ukraine’. If they’re a fascist, there’s a good chance they can’t help themselves but start talking about “Russia’s legitimate security concerns” or “2014 coup”

Lodra ,
@Lodra@programming.dev avatar

I think this is a side effect of sharing and discussion these events online, especially in a link aggregator like Lemmy. You can you see inconsistent views presented in multiple threads yet they feel as if you’re interacting with the same group of people.

Some people are happy about this turn of events while others are not. I expect that you’re seeing differing major opinions from separate groups of people.

Xanis ,

People are scared. Most of the ones calling for Biden to drop out were just parroting popular opinion, with the rest uncertain where him actually dropping will take us. I think your feelings are valid here, though to give people some credit: At least we made the right choice. Immediately after the debate I wasn’t sure if Joe dropping out was a good idea. After the Miss Heard Around the World I strongly felt he had no choice.

Time for Part whatever on this several part series, I guess. BOOTSTRAPS IT IS.

paddirn ,

There’s going to be people pushing on both sides pushing either way, some with honest intentions/beliefs, some just bots/bad actors trying to amp up the chaos. It’s impossible to tell how this plays out at the point though, but it does have the potential to be a really good thing for the Democratic campaign. Unfortunately, Democrats have a way of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, so I’m not overly optimistic of our chances. I hope they get somebody smart, younger, and charismatic who just completely blows the Right out of the water this election and completely changes the trajectory of this country… but I’m not going to hold my breath. I’ll vote for whomever is not Trump, to try to prevent the takeover of literal fascists.

merc ,

Ever since the debate, people have been calling for Joe Biden to step down

Yes, some.

Now I read the comments and everyone is criticizing and accusing the Democrats of not knowing what they’re doing

Yes, others.

Different people speak up on different days. This is especially true in social media where often people won’t speak up if they know they’re going to get jumped on.

abracaDavid ,

The fact the the DNC didn’t have a contingency plan while running the oldest candidate ever is just insane.

The DNC has been fumbling for years and years now. Anyone else remember 2016?

sunzu ,

people have been calling for Joe Biden to step down from the presidential race

Pretty sure that was a DNC campaign to coup biden. Sure people had opinions both ways but what you are talking about was a psyop to turn public opinion.

Across all socials and teevee, it was laddered and in sync.

FireTower ,
@FireTower@lemmy.world avatar

There’s multiple people on here with multiple opinions, and those opinions are subject to change as new information arises.

HotsauceHurricane ,

I am cautiously hopeful for harris. I 100% thi k she can win.

Angry_Autist ,

WOW IT’S ALMOST AS IF ANY LARGE GROUPING OF PEOPLE WILL HAVE MEMBERS THAT DON’T COMPLETELY ALIGN WITH ALL THE GROUP’S VALUES AND GOALS!

ImpressiveEssay ,

It’s not people wanting a fair process. It’s maga. They want a king.

ImpressiveEssay ,

Well guys… Have you seen Trump’s mental decline since he last ran?! How old is he now?

Surely nobody would be dumb enough to vote someone that old into office now… That is… What we have been saying? Right guys?

Blackmist ,

Yeah, but they don’t care. They don’t want a competent and coherent president. They want Trump, because he hates the same people they hate, and he’s not afraid to say so.

The teams don’t play by the same rules and never have.

TheDemonBuer ,
@TheDemonBuer@lemmy.world avatar

I hope the Dems know what they’re doing.

SaltySalamander ,

Morgan Freeman: "They do not"

Omegamanthethird ,
@Omegamanthethird@lemmy.world avatar

Biden wasn’t doing what needed to be done to come back from the debate. This wasn’t a move out of desperation. It was out of necessity.

I hope they have a plan too.

s_s ,

He’s 81 and has COVID

SuckMyWang ,

He likely doesn’t have Covid

kinkles ,
@kinkles@sh.itjust.works avatar

According to…?

SuckMyWang ,

The internet.

I’m on the internet.

kandoh ,

He likely does have COVID

merc ,

Nobody knows what they’re doing. This is all unprecedented stuff.

PhAzE ,

They do. They’re doing what the people asked.

ImpressiveEssay ,

Realistically… from a foreigner . They shouldn’t …really… Have to…

Anybody that votes for trump wants a king. Plain and simple.

Provided America has a functional education system, the Dems should easily be able to coast against someone that actively tried to retain power in the ways that he did. You can listen to the cals yaknow.

UltraGiGaGigantic ,

Make the democrats mistakes less existential by introducing competition into the electoral process with Ranked Choice voting.

More political parties, more chances to beat trump, more people voting.

Furbag ,

Oh boy, I can’t wait for armchair pundits who were calling for Joe to step down to now turn around and start to nitpick Harris as if that wasn’t going to be the obvious successor.

I’m 100% behind Harris or anyone who gets the Dem nom. Trump must be stopped.

This is still a battle for America’s soul. Are we going to accept the first female president or the first convicted felon president? I sure hope the left turns out for this one, even if they aren’t super stoked about it, because we might never recover from another Trump disaster.

verdantbanana ,
@verdantbanana@lemmy.world avatar

and this is exactly why Trumps exist

one party is actively tearing down society and the other is complacent and the voters eat it up

zbyte64 ,

It’s not just pundits, Nancy Pelosi wants Harris off the ticket. I already donated to her campaign and called my reps to let them know that’s a bad idea.

cabron_offsets ,

I don’t prefer Harris, but am 100% fine with her. Any D 2024. Fuck the republican traitor filth.

Blackmist ,

She’s a very bland candidate, but at least she’s not 80 and fading.

Whether that’s enough to get people up off their arses and into voting booths, I don’t know.

You really need somebody that’s going to invigorate the centre and left, the way Trump excites the right. Dyed in the wool Dems don’t care who the candidate is, they’d have been happy with Biden’s corpse. The issue is there’s not a lot of time left for experimentation in finding one.

Tygr ,

11th hour switch and the delay in getting Biden to step down when they knew his brain was failing will be their downfall.

All that money spent promoting Biden wasted. Good luck.

stoly ,

Ultimately it’s the party nominee rather than the specific person people vote for. All that campaigning still matters.

Shameless ,

11th hour? The nomination for the party hasn’t even happened, there is around 5 months to the polls, this is definitely not the 11th hour.

Tygr ,

We’ll see. It’s the 11th hour. Sooooo late.

credo ,

I know people will say this is bad, a new campaign will be rushed, etc. But I think we all know Biden was an excuse for many not to vote, or worse, to vote for Trump. Withdrawing will be his legacy when we win, not his failing.

Thank you President Biden. You are a hero.

njm1314 , (edited )

Nobody who would consider voting for Trump is going to vote for whoever replaces Biden. Nobody. This is about getting apathetic voters off their butt. Which I hope works, but every part of my being is telling me they’re going to pick someone who apathetic voters wouldn’t vote for anyway.

Pacattack57 ,

Kamala 🙄

Krauerking ,

People have done more with less campaign time and he will go down as having listened and done what was requested of the people and party I honestly think this says a lot of good stuff about the democratic party and Biden once we get the spin right.

cogman ,

It won’t be hard. Kamala is going to be able to put a bullseye on Trump and republican politics like Biden simply wasn’t ever able to do. She’s going to be able to hyper focus on the deeply unpopular beliefs of the base and it will be hard for Trump or others to really deny it without losing their core supporters.

Further, because she’s relatively unknown there’s really not the same baggage as there was with Hillary. Most people don’t know who she is and I think that really plays to her favor.

ulkesh ,
@ulkesh@lemmy.world avatar

Let’s be honest here, Trump will never lose his core supporters. He could literally turn out to be the devil incarnate, and his supporters will say it’s their god’s will. He’s a 34-count convicted felon and they see that as something to boast about.

The issue in this country is that the less educated are following those with a playbook of getting the less educated to vote, to vote for them, and in areas that games the electoral college system.

We were a hair’s breadth from another Trump term in 2020 by 11,000 votes in GA. Not to mention his coup attempt.

It cannot be that close again. It must be decisive. I hope Harris, if she is the nominee, can achieve that.

Schmoo ,

Kamala is going to be able to put a bullseye on Trump

I agree with you but this is an interesting choice of words given other recent events lol.

assassin_aragorn ,

If we win in November, it’ll be because Biden made this selfless decision. He’ll deserve medals and statues.

CosmicTurtle0 ,

Biden absolutely did the right thing and, perhaps, the most courageous thing.

Democrats would have coalesced around him if decided to keep going but we’ve been begging him to step aside. This is a key difference between Trump “fans” and Biden voters. We’re not drawn to him as a personality.

Once a candidate is selected, I don’t care who it is, we must support them because not doing so is voting for an end to democracy.

The fact that we’re here is a travesty.

jumjummy ,

Except for the bank of those who are just Russian agents who will undoubtedly find some new “excuse” why the Democrat candidate is not fit to run.

capital ,

Expect lots of “cop” comments in regards to Harris from Russians totally real leftists.

MutilationWave ,

She was a cop. She called herself the “top cop”. I fucking hate the police and she’s got my vote over a literal pedophile felonious fascist.

capital ,

Seriously, thank you for voting.

assassin_aragorn ,

I’m no fan of cops, but I think this actually plays very well with the political environment. Recent elections saw rebukes of progressive Police policies in the Pacific North West. As much as I wish it were otherwise, that message isn’t resonating with voters even in considerably progressive areas.

Having a traditional prosecutor may be an advantage in that regard. And it may provide us a new avenue to look at how we can have better policing that more people will support.

sentientity ,

Fwiw, I am harshly critical of most elected dems but I have never considered not voting. I think I and many people hold our allies (for lack of better term) to higher standards and get angrier when they fuck up. So I think a lot of these posts are just that. Harsh criticism of a candidate =/= not voting for them. People are strategic about voting pragmatically, they’re just also very frustrated with the dem establishment’s behavior.

kandoh ,

It’ll be great to have a woman talking about abortion and making this election a referendum on national abortion access.

Americans love to vote for something rather than against something.

wreckedcarzz ,
@wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world avatar

But, when democrats lose due to this move… ???

I would have preferred him to stay on course. While I don’t care what sex they are or color or whatever, a fuckload of garbage twats in this country sure as fuck do. Biden was also likeable in public appearances. I have fuck all idea what Harris is like, and 5y of time vs like 4 months to win public opinion, oof it will be an absolute blitz. And I consider myself rather knowledgeable and up-to-date on US politics. I have friends that have no idea what’s going on at any given time, or why.

I need to research her now and become familiar, but I see this as a big negative for chances, not positive. Anxiety spiked hard about what’s to come.

Anyone in Canada looking for a roommate…?

bolexforsoup ,

If*

wreckedcarzz ,
@wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world avatar

Sure. Still doesn’t invalidate the concern.

Schmoo ,

While I don’t care what sex they are or color or whatever, a fuckload of garbage twats in this country sure as fuck do

This is my least favorite argument I keep seeing for why Biden shouldn’t drop out. The racist shit-heels you’re referring to were always going to vote for Trump regardless of who the Democratic candidate is. There is no reason for Democrats to try and appeal to racists, and even if there were it would be immoral to do so. Sacrificing your values to win is no true victory.

You’re losing your nerve, and while that’s understandable, it’s self-sabotage.

jwt ,

I’m so thankful I live in a country where 4 months is (still) believed to be a ridiculously long amount of time to campaign.

Good luck America! Please show the rest of the world you’re still capable of making sane choices.

Plume , (edited )
@Plume@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

People. We, the French, pulled a left-wing coalition out of our asses in less than a week and managed to “win” an election. You have months. Hope is permitted.

kandoh ,

I think you’ll start to see a lot more excitement in the next few weeks.

Tacos_y_margaritas ,

I’m already noticing a lot of hype for Kamala 🤞

peopleproblems ,

I mean, ok, what’s not to hype? The second Black president, but in two centuries, it would be the first woman. The right’s heads will collectively explode if she wins.

assassin_aragorn ,

Mmmm you know this would be quite the upside

NewAgeOldPerson ,

Can someone find the “hope is kindled” gif from LoTR Return of the King? When Pipin lights the beacon of Minas Tirith. I can’t find it.

Wiz ,

…fanpop.com/…/Gandalf-ian-mckellen-42765123-300-2…

morphballganon ,

Why’d you put “win” in quotes?

magnor ,
@magnor@lemmy.magnor.ovh avatar

Because we only have a relative majority and now Macron is teaming up with the hard right (not the far right, the other right right that is not center right… Yeah, too much right is wrong) to deprive us of any path to government. Shit sucks. But it could have sucked way harder.

Pronell ,

It’s also a strategic moderate move to keep the hard right from merging with Reform.

I’m hoping the left wing parties aren’t locked out and still able to get progress made.

Ooops ,
@Ooops@feddit.org avatar

Cuddling up to the hard right might look like a strategical move but it never works. Normalising them only shifts the discussion further to the right. And let’s face it… in this post-factual time where all that matters is the narratives, giving them a platform will only help to brain-wash more people into believing into right-wing fake-solutions to actual problems.

xav ,

Because, well, the left coalition came out ahead of the vote but then started to loose ground to political shenanigans. War is not over but a significant battle was lost.

taiyang ,

It’s very true. We’ve been brainwashed into a year long campaign mostly because it generates a lot of money for various parties but prior elections have proven it’s mostly what happens in the last month that makes a difference.

Y’all are lucky you can make coalitions, though. This is more akin to your election if you only had centrists and far right running. Two party system and all that.

mosiacmango ,

“Hope and change” is back in it to win it.

Motherfucking Obama at it again.

Marand ,

Lol, Obama comming back would be incredible. Is he even allowed to? He already served two terms

Osito ,

He’s not allowed to but people are saying Michelle could be the pick, but that would only be marginally better than Kamala

They need Gretchen, Pete, or Kelly

Serinus ,

Jon Stewart. Someone go pull him and make him do it. There’s no one better to take down Trump.

tamal3 ,

He’d be miserable the whole time, but we’d all be better off. Please Jon!

whoisearth ,
@whoisearth@lemmy.ca avatar

I mean I’d love it and I’m going back and forth on this comment. His biggest negative is those who lean right will see him exactly as he is “a New York Jew”

That said, who better to trounce Trump and humiliate his ass? I think the only thing better would be Michelle Obama. Trump would lose his absolute shit debating and/or losing to a woman let alone a black woman.

Watch that fucker drop the N bomb in a debate against her lol

merc ,

A 2-woman ticket would never work. It’s going to be very dicey having a woman leading the ticket with a man as VP, given how sexist the US electorate is.

slackassassin ,

What’s sexist is going on and on about how a woman is unelectable.

merc ,

Yes, reality is sexist. But, you can’t just live in a fantasy land.

slackassassin ,

A friend of mine was running a restaurant, and before a major business meeting, her 2nd said that he should do all the talking because the other party was sexist and wouldn’t listen to a woman.

She fired his ass, rightfully. That is not what progress looks like. Step up and fight against sexism, don’t concede to that shit.

catloaf ,

We don’t really do coalitions here. Our voting system doesn’t allow for it.

It does happen within Congress itself though, when different sects of the two parties cross the aisle to join with the other party on certain issues. But since Congress doesn’t elect a prime minister, it doesn’t happen for the presidency.

Plume ,
@Plume@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I know. You’re missing my point. :)

My point wasn’t the coalition. My point was that we had 21 days to cobble something together and not only did we do it, we managed to win with it. It’s not about the coalition, it’s about building a campaign. You have months to do so.

And you’re about to say that Trump had way longer to do so. Yes. So did the far right in our country, which barely even campaigned because all of the media were doing so on their behalf for the last two years and we still managed to outnumber them.

Trust me, my faith in the Democrats is barely existent. But still, I think it can be done.

slurpeesoforion ,

Viva la France

ChaoticEntropy ,
@ChaoticEntropy@feddit.uk avatar

It’s a binary choice in the US presidential election, that isn’t even based on the popular vote.

sunzu ,

The regime provides two choices, people do a circle jerk, regime gets their candidate.

Win win!

Unless you work for money

Hammocks4All ,

Lord have merci

merc ,

A “long” election campaign in the UK is 6 weeks. In 1992 they had one that was just 30 days.

Months is plenty of time, especially in the modern world. Maybe 250 years ago it was necessary to campaign for months on end so that the candidate could personally travel by train to every state. But, with modern media (both traditional and social), there’s no real reason for campaigns to be as long as they are. The only reason they’re this long is that the thought is that the earlier you start campaigning, the better. So, each side keeps starting earlier and earlier, making it effectively into a neverending campaign cycle.

Draedron ,

America has no left wing. The dems have now handed Trump the win since its way too late to change the candidate and Harris is completely invisible

JasonDJ ,

So we need a French immigrant to help fix the government?

https://lemmy.zip/pictrs/image/b3c902fa-545b-41ca-9459-637393a64408.webp

assassin_aragorn ,

Well spoken.

A few months in politics is an eternity. Yes, things are chaotic right now, but this is short term. We can unify after this. And we can win.

Angry_Autist ,

You, the French, have not been the target of a 40 year war against public education by the right wing. Americans are on average significantly less capable of rational thought because of it. Source: I am an American raised in the crippled education system I mentioned before.

Wiz ,

Thank you, French. You’re awesome. I was losing hope, and yet a miracle happened.

Good job.

cooltrainer_frank ,

Jesus, I hope they can piece a campaign together in the few remaining months

Fapper_McFapper ,

I don’t think they’ve thought this through.

timewarp ,
@timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

Biden was going to lose to Trump and was dragging other Democrats down with him in the polls. What more did you need?

Fapper_McFapper ,

Walk me through this. Who replaces Joe with only 4 months left until the elections? It’s going to be vote blue no matter who again. Oh, would you look at that. Biden just endorsed Kamala Harris.

daq ,

Newsom is the only option with any chance of winning, but democrats aren’t even trying to win this election.

bibliotectress ,

They’re clearly trying to win if they got so scared about polls they strong-armed Biden into resigning. The panic has pretty clearly set in. We’ll see if this works or not.

ShepherdPie ,

They’re ‘trying to win’ just like they were in 2016. We need a massive change in party leadership.

ChicoSuave ,

I abhor Gavin Newsome and would only vote for him to replace Trump. There are almost zero things Gavin Newsome can do that any other candidate can do better. He’s a slimy, adulterous predator who is more concerned with being remembered than doing something memorable.

Omegamanthethird ,
@Omegamanthethird@lemmy.world avatar

Harris or Manchin.

Harris actually sounds pretty good when she’s talking politics. Her tough on crime past can give her a boost with moderates and centrists as well. She just has the weirdest mannerisms when trying to relate to people.

Manchin has obvious appeal to centrists and moderates. His biggest issue is his opposition to climate change action. But other than that he’d be considered liberal by '90s standards.

Newsom needs to go through the primary process to see if he can appeal to swing state voters. Because I’m not convinced he can win those margin votes that he needs.

harrys_balzac ,

Manchin? He’s basically a Republican. He just hasn’t kissed Trumps ring. Besides he’s declared himself an “independent.”

Omegamanthethird ,
@Omegamanthethird@lemmy.world avatar

Manchin is a lot closer to a Democrat than a Republican. A LOT closer.

sudo ,

Manchin is running as an independent Senator in 2024. Giving him the nom would be the biggest “fuck you” to their voters.

Harris is the only logical choice. She’s not the best candidate but she can form coherent sentences and isnt surprising voters any more than Biden dropping.

frezik ,

Manchin might be the one candidate where I leave the box unchecked.

dank ,

Just about anyone can beat Trump. Now that we don’t have a senile old man holding us back, we’ll be fine.

timewarp ,
@timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah, of course he’s going to endorse her. Still doesn’t mean that delegates don’t decide after an open convention. If she can show the delegates she has what it takes then she earns it.

Fapper_McFapper ,

I want to be just as optimistic as you are. Here’s to hoping that you’re right and I’m wrong.

timbuck2themoon ,

Yeah a Humphrey style convention is always a good idea. /s

njm1314 , (edited )

Not for nothing but four months should be plenty to do an election in. 24 hour news media has convinced you that it’s got to be a 2-year endeavor. In all honesty 2 months should be plenty. Four is fine. Our entire country would be much better off if election seasons were shorter.

Fapper_McFapper ,

Let’s hope so!

NateNate60 ,

The UK Labour Party won a landslide election on 6 weeks notice

tamal3 , (edited )

Smaller country, less money involved… but here’s hoping.

Edit: I’m not sure why I’m being downvoted. Comparing the speed of the British election cycle to that of the US is mismatched. Yes, US elections are ridiculous and bloated, but that’s still the reality of them. Regardless, we’ll have to do things faster based on circumstances.

NateNate60 ,

Well, the US is literally the second-most populous electoral democracy and the third-most populous country in the world, so I say we’ll need some time.

Kraven_the_Hunter ,

Hear hear!

Rentlar ,

Just FYI, Rep. Ocasio-Cortez warned people that elite donors have been wanting Harris and Biden both off the ticket.. You are free to hold skepticism about Harris’ viability as presidential nominee, but do note that it is in line with the donor class’ rhetoric.

dank ,

Who cares if it’s Kamala? She’s not senile, she’s not Genocide Joe, and she’s not an unhinged fascist. She’s a shoe-in.

theangryseal ,

I voted for President Not Trump twice, I’m very much motivated to vote for President Not Trump a third time.

CileTheSane ,
@CileTheSane@lemmy.ca avatar

It’s going to be vote blue no matter who

So the same thing that’s been said to get people to vote for Biden in the first place?

If the Biden campaign was mostly running on “Not Trump,” anyone they replace him with will also not be Trump.

braindefragger ,

I don’t see it that way at all. This seems like a great way to increase their votes. It’s not like they are going to lose voters who were going to vote Biden to begin with.

Fapper_McFapper ,

It’s never about those that were going to vote for Biden anyways. It’s always been about the undecided voters. Don’t get me wrong, I hope you’re right.

braindefragger ,

It’s never about those that were going to vote for Biden anyways. It’s always been about the undecided voters.

Right. That’s obviously the whole point.

HulkSmashBurgers ,

Plus whatever strategy repubs were going to use to smear Biden is up in smoke.

ECB ,

Yeah the reality is that Biden was 95% going to lose to Trump. Picking a new person is usially a huge risk, but in this case there wasn’t much to lose.

As things stand right now, Trumps chances of winning just went down a bit. Worst case, they pick someone terrible with similar (non-)chances to Biden. Best case, they pick someone who wins.

simplejack ,
@simplejack@lemmy.world avatar

They’ve 100% thought through this. Harris takes over the Biden / Harris campaign war chest, and if Biden drops out now, the party can go into the align around Harris before the convention. And now we have 3+ months to get people hyped about not voting for an old white dude.

SnotFlickerman ,
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

abcnews.go.com/Politics/…/story?id=112129063

Have they, though? Republicans are going to contest whomever they replace him with. This is fucking dumb. We should have dropped Biden as the candidate from the get-go. Too late, this is stupid.

dvoraqs ,

From the article you linked to:

Election law expert Richard Hasen wrote that there is “no credence” to the notion that the Democratic Party could not legally replace Biden on the ticket, as he is not the nominee yet – the nominating process generally takes place during the Democratic National Convention.

Boddhisatva ,

You’ve posted this 5 times in this thread in the last 20 minutes. Take a moment to read your own link…

Election law expert Richard Hasen wrote that there is “no credence” to the notion that the Democratic Party could not legally replace Biden on the ticket, as he is not the nominee yet – the nominating process generally takes place during the Democratic National Convention.

Rentlar , (edited )

Republicans are going to play every trick in the book, legal, moral, ethical or not. They will shout it at the rallies, take every opportunity to stir up shit on television (with help from Koch and Sinclair owned media) and you will hear every reason why the democratic nominee cannot be President. If Democrats find someone with a squeaky clean record and the Republicans can’t find anything truthful, they’ll fabricate it with ease. “Kamala Harris ate a moldy bagel in 2018 therefore she can’t be president.”

The one advantage Democrats have at this very second, is that Republicans and Trump can’t use the media machine to pre-emptively smear any one person, since nobody knows who the nominee will be yet. Use this opportunity well and combat the “ahh confusion, somehow only Trump makes sense” narrative that will be sure to be floated.

Clinicallydepressedpoochie ,

Boooo

timbuck2themoon ,

My prediction- those cheering today will be crying in November.

Fapper_McFapper ,

I hope not but I fear you are correct.

timbuck2themoon ,

I sincerely hope I’m wrong too.

ShepherdPie ,

Versus ignoring the writing on the wall, doing nothing, and still crying in November?

Phenomephrene ,
@Phenomephrene@thebrainbin.org avatar

I think that's possible, but I think it was all but guaranteed that anyone who didn't want the repubs to win would have been crying in November if Biden hadn't dropped out.

Clinicallydepressedpoochie ,

Boooooo. I’ll take my chances!

timewarp ,
@timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

Yes they can. This is the right choice. Democrats will be more energized than ever now. Hopeful they keep it open to the delegates to vote at the convention after a few people step forward.

Soup ,

It would be an awful lot easier than trying to salvage Biden’s image as it stands. If they do it right this should be super easy, but if they drag their heels on the changes necessary then it might be a lot harder.

This is BIG opportunity to rebrand and show what really matters to the party.

Cruxifux ,

This is the perfect opportunity to do that! But I have absolutely zero faith in them actually doing that.

But maybe I’ve become jaded in my age with politics. Maybe they won’t just choose the worst possible option.

SnotFlickerman ,
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

abcnews.go.com/Politics/…/story?id=112129063

I’m sure it will all work out when Republicans contest the new candidate… Fuck me what is this idiocy.

Fisk400 ,

Are they going to force Biden to run against his will or what is the plan here? If Biden dies, are Democrats not allowed to run at all because they aren’t allowed to replace him.

SnotFlickerman ,
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

are Democrats not allowed to run at all because they aren’t allowed to replace him.

Bingo.

kautau ,

Yeah this was the point all along

Nurgle ,

Dems haven’t even officially nominated anyone yet, dont think the republicans would get very far with that stunt

kautau ,

Who’s going to stop them? The Supreme Court?

Zaktor ,

If you think they’re that off the rails then they don’t need this as a premise to challenge Democrats in the first place.

dohpaz42 ,
@dohpaz42@lemmy.world avatar

The thing is, it’s not the Democratic Party replacing Biden anymore. Biden has willfully stepped down, and given his support to Harris. To put it another way, Biden is no longer “being replaced”.

But, that may not matter in the long run. The question now is when/if Republicans take this to court, and whether or not the judge decides to hear the case or not and how long that will take.

As far as I know, judges have historically decided not to pursue a case if it would impede the election process (e.g., gerrymandered district ruled illegal, but still used because not enough time to redraw maps). I would like to hope that the Democratic Party gets the same curtsy in this case.

However, I feel that right now given the current political climate, and the current way judges have been deciding in favor of the Republican agenda, this may not be the case and the new candidate will be tied up in legal tape to be able to campaign properly. The Republicans will cease upon this opportunity and use it against the Democratic Party to make them look weak and unable to do anything they say they will do. And to be honest, they won’t be wrong.

Democrats are their own worst enemy, and their hubris will be to all of our detriment.

youtu.be/-lm0Cy8gwvk

UltraGiGaGigantic ,

Maybe they won’t just choose the worst possible option.

Her turn 2.0 watch out yall here comes Hillary! /$

djsoren19 ,

I think the fact that the party was willing to do this says a lot. They’ve already avoided the worst possible option, I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Tujio ,

But this is the DNC…

Clinicallydepressedpoochie ,

Booo the DNC just made an unprecedented pivot which the people actually wanted.

RinseDrizzle ,

Nervously optimistic, but I’ve been hurt before

Clinicallydepressedpoochie ,

It’s not going to be perfect. It’s not going to even inspire people for the next 4 years. What it will do is get us to January where we, hopefully can rightfully calibrate like we should have in 2020. No matter the winner, THIS DOES NOT END IN NOVEMEBER. Remember that.

Nastybutler ,

Have you met the DNC?

5redie8 ,

Was Bidens image really that bad outside of these internet circles?

assassin_aragorn ,

Yeah it was going to be impossible to properly move forward from this. There would be too much media coverage and division and lingering questions.

Now though, we have a real opportunity to unify, and make several arguments to voters – Democrats listened and picked a younger candidate. We can also flip the script on candidate age now

braindefragger ,

This seems like a non issue.

scytale ,

If, and that’s a big if, they choose to field a moderately likeable replacement, there’s a chance they can actually re-energize the campaign and voters and get a big boost with a fresh face. That’s a big if though.

ShepherdPie ,

They’ll probably pick Clinton to run again and she’ll still probably be making references to Pokémon Go to pull in the youth vote.

enleeten ,

Big Gretch. Trump gets out of line like normal, she’ll give him a little shlap and put him in his place.

Tujio ,

She would be my choice as well, but she just announced she wouldn’t.

zarp86 ,

https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/2e1bc41c-9e65-45a5-9f5f-4b873174551a.gif

BrokenGlepnir ,

Other countries have pulled out elections in two weeks. The us may not have that experience though. The campaign however had been directed at his opponent’s well known incompetence and malice. That may be the advantage of divisive politics.

SnotFlickerman ,
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Mike Johnson has literally already made it clear that in these circumstances he intends to CONTEST the new candidate being allowed on ballots.

We live in the fucking stupidest ass timeline.

The time for dropping Biden was before the fucking primaries and now we’re walking right the fuck into a Republican trap.

Fuck me, someone just kill me now so Trump can’t institutionally fucking murder me.

Source: abcnews.go.com/Politics/…/story?id=112129063

Democrats are fuckin morons who want to lose.

Jordan117 ,

Mike Johnson is (as usual) full of shit. The DNC is still a month away and not a single state ballot deadline has passed.

twistypencil ,

That doesn’t mean they won’t tie this up in the courts I’ve a bogus legal theory that the Supreme Court will turn into a reality… Mark my words, unless Biden packs the court, this one is on Clarence Thomas’s desk stat

capital ,

Saving this comment for later.

Kroxx ,

Biden isn’t even the nominee yet that’s one of the reasons it was important this happened before the DNC. Before the nomination this is no official presidential candidate, ol’ Mikey Poo-Bear is yaking out of his ass. Mike even said “some legal impediments in at least a few of these jurisdictions”, he’s just posturing for attention. No more threatening than a bantam rooster when you walk in his coup.

Clinicallydepressedpoochie ,

No one can “make biden run”. If he died tomorrow we are suppose to vote for a literal corpse? Boooo

Blackbeard ,
@Blackbeard@lemmy.world avatar

There is no candidate until the convention. Biden wasn’t actually the nominee yet, so there’s nothing for them to contest. Johnson put out that threat to scare you.

morphballganon ,

Johnson is just threatening. He has no power over nominees.

SuddenDownpour ,

Plenty of other countries’ electoral campaigns advance far faster than Americans expect theirs to move, and US media is talking about politics all the damn time. If the Dems don’t do a massive screw up somehow, I think they’ll find out that switching the candidate will be far easier than they were expecting.

deadbeef79000 ,

I’m afraid that cancer may have already metastasized.

ChicoSuave ,

They have the media bomb of “no incumbent” leading the headlines. This is one of the only media maneuvers that would change the conversation from “That Trump overcame assassination and adversity!” At this point a major shift was needed.

The year and a half back log of memes against Biden that right wing contractors have saved up are now worthless. The right will have 3 months to make a cohesive media smear campaign (which they can do against the right candidate) but it will require lots of downtime as the high paid think tanks make astroturf.

Rentlar ,

The fact that Republican troll farms have to now spend time coming up with new material puts a small smile on my face.

They will move swiftly though, while the Democrats are used to being sluggish, so vigilance is in order.

marine_mustang ,

Other countries have whole campaign seasons that are shorter. We’ve just gotten used to multi-year campaigns and never-ending reelection efforts. It wasn’t always like this, and I don’t think it’s good for us long-term.

Clinicallydepressedpoochie ,

Boooo the campaign will be better than what they had in store for biden.

kandoh ,

It’s the same campaign, still has half the ticket on it.

ImpressiveEssay ,

Lol… From a foreigner this is hilarious. Some of you still want to support the guy that tried disrupt the governmental process… He called the frigging election investigator FFS. You can listen to him tell her how 'her job is the most important in The country rn… and talk at length about how fraud will be found.

People that want trump want a king. Plain and simple.

catloaf ,

My money is still on Harris to be the final candidate. Get ready.

Psionicsickness ,

She’ll get absolutely demoed by Trump. I can’t wait for Dems to have to vote for a racist cop though, peak irony.

felbane ,

One of the things Harris really has going for her is the fact that she would absolutely demolish Trump in a debate. She would not let him off the hook for his lies and would be able to counter his BS with reality.

Which is why Trump will never agree to debate her.

If Harris does become first name on the ticket, they better put Jesus Himself Christ as her running mate.

Organichedgehog ,

I don’t like Harris at all, but I’d love to see her in a debate with trump.

Grimy ,

If Harris does become first name on the ticket, they better put Jesus Himself Christ as her running mate.

GOP: Holy shit, why didn’t we think of that?

mashbooq ,

They probably did think of it but then rejected it when they found out how progressive Jesus is

Zaktor ,

Put a woke commie pacifist on the ticket? Hah! Now, Supply-Side Jesus, that’s a candidate.

Pacattack57 ,

What makes you think she could do that? Honest question. The few speeches I heard from her she performed poorly.

MutilationWave ,

She was a prosecutor. Trump is a rambling tank of lies. She is smart enough to predict his bullshit and have responses in the can. I would love to see someone call Trump a liar to his face constantly for an hour.

Zaktor ,

She’s great on attack, she just gets tongue tied on defense sometimes. Before the primary (where she had some good attacks), she was most known for questioning people in the senate.

MaXimus421 ,
@MaXimus421@lemmy.world avatar

You cannot be serious. She’s as bad at public speaking as Biden during the last debate. She absolutely would not stand a chance in a debate with Trump.

AlbertSpangler ,

Anyone will get demoed (?) by drumpf and the GOP.

They’ll probably claim whoever gets the nomination wasn’t born in the US, is part of a satanic paedophilic cabal, etc etc etc.

So that bit doesn’t matter. Get someone who ideally inspires the swing states and hesitant voters.

Then there’ll be a violent uprising with the support of the supreme court, but again there’s nothing you can do to prevent that now.

Lemminary , (edited )

Having the first US woman president would be cool and have a first woman vice-president as well, why not?

E: Whoops, you already had a first vp, Sorry, Americans.

jorp ,

yeah it would be cool but we’re talking about the American voter

wreckedcarzz ,
@wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world avatar

Lol

…

:(

Tagger ,

Haven’t you just had the first woman vice-president?

Pacattack57 ,

Nobody voted for Biden because Kamala was the VP. Get real man, accept reality. Yes she might be better than Biden at this point but the only way she wins this is if she beats trump in a debate and based on her speaking skills in the few speeches I heard from her she will look like a moron on stage compared to him.

wreckedcarzz ,
@wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world avatar

…what does any of that have to do with the comment you replied to

Lemminary ,

Oh yeah, I forgot the US did that.

MutilationWave ,

Running a woman for president is risky because of boomers, but the majority of them are voting Trump anyway. Running two women on the ticket I think would be a mistake. There are a lot of progressives that are still misogynist. As much as I’d love to see Harris/AOC I think they need to pick a man for VP.

Corigan ,

I am all for a women president, but Harris is just a Hilary repeat … Please dont.

AOC would be amazing but I know shes "too progressive"for the boomers… What ever the fuck that means

Omega_Man ,

Why is she Hillary repeat?

enbyecho ,

Why is she Hillary repeat?

They don’t know. Watch… they won’t have specific factual reasons, only vague generalizations. Betcha.

CliveRosfield ,

Speaking, presentation, likability.

Omega_Man ,

So well spoken female that people just don’t like for some reason?

TexasDrunk ,

The thought is that her years as a prosecutor will come back to bite her. Plus a lot of people seem to have a problem with her personality.

I haven’t watched her enough to form an opinion but those are the takes I’ve heard most often.

Speculater ,
@Speculater@lemmy.world avatar

A prosecutor who is anti marijuana and anti minority.

vxx ,

If that’s the spin republicans will take on her, they’ll alienate their own voters and push them democratic.

kandoh ,

She’s a democrat so the average voter is totally incapable of identifying that they could be anything but pro minority and soft on crime.

It’s like pointing out that republicans keep crashing the economy, doesn’t matter, they’re branding is still ‘good for business’

wreckedcarzz ,
@wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world avatar

Oof, that’s not great; got an example?

Speculater ,
@Speculater@lemmy.world avatar

Apparently she changed her mind according to the sources responding to my comment.

The_Terrible_Humbaba , (edited )

I don’t know much about her, but directly from the wiki:

The rate at which Harris’s office prosecuted marijuana crimes was higher than the rate under Hallinan, but the number of defendants sentenced to state prison for such offenses was substantially lower.[76] Prosecutions for low-level marijuana offenses were rare under Harris, and her office had a policy of not pursuing jail time for marijuana possession offenses.[76]

It sounds like her position on weed is not exactly what people are painting it as. At least these comments make it seem much worse than it is according to the wiki.

EDIT:

According to this, she even supported a bill in 2019 to legalize marijuana at a federal level, tax it, and use that money to (according to this):

Create a community reinvestment fund to reinvest in communities most impacted by the failed War on Drugs and allow those funds to be invested in the following programs:

Job training;

Reentry services;

Expenses related to the expungement of convictions;

Public libraries;

Community centers;

Programs and opportunities dedicated to youth; and

Health education

I don’t know if it’s on purpose, but you are definitely spreading misinformation.

Omega_Man ,

Hmmm… crickets

Schmoo ,

I think this is an instance of people failing to think from a systems perspective rather than an individual perspective. Kamala Harris was a functionary of an oppressive system and chose the easy path of not challenging it from within. That in itself may not inspire confidence in her potential presidency, but it does not discount her completely. She is still an individual who has changed her views over the years in a way that suggests hope for her being a better president than she was an Attorney General.

chemical_cutthroat ,
@chemical_cutthroat@lemmy.world avatar

Because that is the talking point that the foreign propaganda machine has been pumping out for the last few months. You’ll notice there were no comparisons to Hillary a year ago. Now it’s all “Harris is a cop,” and “Harris is Hillary 2.0”. Ignore all of that bullshit. It’s foreign trolls doing their job and muddying the waters.

Redecco ,

I feel like I heard that stuff during the 2020 primaries as well, but the spotlight has definitely shifted back on her so we’ll be hearing all sorts of things.

chemical_cutthroat ,
@chemical_cutthroat@lemmy.world avatar

Exactly. If it were a real issue, it would be important enough to talk about all the time. When it only comes up if she is in the spotlight, it’s a disinformation campaign.

Speculater ,
@Speculater@lemmy.world avatar

Piece of shit cop that ruined people’s lives for the crime of minding their own damn business. Not progressive, at all, and very far right as Democrats go.

aesthelete ,

cop

And just like that the concern trolls have aligned on a new attack line.

Speculater ,
@Speculater@lemmy.world avatar

I’m voting for anyone not Trump, but she has a very public record of incarcerating non-violent offenders.

logos ,

AOC is legally too young to run still.

confusedbytheBasics ,

She’ll be old enough by January 20th so she can run.

GreyEyedGhost ,

Actually old enough before the election. I was under that misapprehension, as well.

MutilationWave ,

I see this bullshit literally every day. Read up.

ripcord ,
@ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

Dont understand how this myth still persists, since it is immediately corrected every time I’ve seen someone claim it.

Kroxx ,

I do not like Hillary and I do not like Harris. I don’t however agree with harris being a Hilary repeat, I think she has a way better shot than Biden did

iz_ok ,

I like AOC’s passion but a lot of people believe she’s too progressive. She’s young and can probably be more beneficial to her constituents and the party where she is for a few more years.

Harris should have a good shot, just for name recognition, her stance on abortion, and being part of the incumbent administration. Maybe she’s a more likable candidate then she was four years ago. The Democrats will have to give her a chance.

dank ,

Progressives aren’t going to get a candidate we like this year. And you know what, that’s ok. I wasn’t going to vote for Genocide Joe, but I’ll do everything in my power to put in office Harris, Newsom, Whitmer, or whoever else milquetoast neolib gets the establishment nod, if only to prevent Trump from taking office.

Nastybutler ,

I wasn’t going to vote for Genocide Joe

Thanks for letting us know you’d rather have an autocratic despot run this country than Biden

oyo ,

Have you actually listened to her on the issues or do you just know what the media has been spouting? I was surprised to hear her very articulate and reasonable stances from her directly rather than through a progressive media filter. There’s a mismatch.

5redie8 ,

To each their own, but when I watched her in the debate years back I only remember her as one of the people I explicitly didn’t like lol. Whatever, there’s some good points in this thread and I dearly hope they’re right.

fxt_ryknow ,

They kind have to… IMO… You know, the whole DEI thing.

rustyfish ,
@rustyfish@lemmy.world avatar

That’s why I’m never gonna cancel my USA subscription. Your shows always have a crazy twist right before the season finale.

Jokes aside: Not a single person who even considers voting for Trump is worth any hassle. Their vote is a coin flip on fucking acid. The dems should try to animate the lazy nonvoting pricks.

Revan343 ,

Don’t disparage acid like that, every psychedelic user I know is left wing

TrickDacy ,

Your assessment is spot on. I am forever shocked that people seem to think there are voters on the fence between trump and anyone else

Angry_Autist ,

It’s pretty telling how you can meme about the most dangerous nation on the planet slipping into fascism. Of course you don’t care now because it isn’t happening in your city. I guaran-fucking-tee if drumpf gets re-elected, it will be IN your city by next year. So laugh it up.

nepenthes ,
@nepenthes@lemmy.world avatar

I don’t think anyone means to disparage the very real concerns facing USians, and I think non-USians recognize this affects every one of us regardless of country (I recently made a comment regarding this exactly).

I think that commenter was just using humour because it’s quite overwhelming that within a week-- Trump’s been shot at and Biden is stepping aside.

If us outsiders are feeling this, then I imagine it is so much worse for USians. I am empathetic to how stressful this must be, and hope for a candidate who annhilates Trump and leads your country towards healing.

EurekaStockade ,

The president of the United States affects the rest of the world but we don’t have a say in who it is, so I don’t know what you expect from us foreigners? Perhaps my country which is a staunch US ally and a fraction of the size should launch a coup?

Sort your shit out, America, because nobody is in a position to do it for you. We’re making jokes because it seems unreal that things have gotten this far and because there is no real way for us to influence US domestic politics.

LemmyLingo ,

I’m seriously looking forward to the HBO drama about the first election campaign, Jan 6th, the Biden presidency, and then the second campaign in twenty years. It’s gonna go so hard.

Xanis ,

I’ll say just one thing:

Every single one of you assholes who wouldn’t shut up about him stepping down since the dude missed the toilet bowl fifty years ago after a particularly wild night out better sure as fuck step up now that Old Joe has stepped down.

A sitting god damned President of the United States has stepped aside less than half a year before reelection. Make no mistake: The man swallowed his pride and ego HARD to make this decision. Let’s honor that by creating a wall of votes so god. damned. thick. Riley Reid would gasp.

abracaDavid ,

It took pretty much the entire Democratic party calling for him to step down before he would.

He came out and said multiple times that he wasn’t going anywhere. He was forced out.

Hackworth ,

Didn’t he also get Covid last week?

Contravariant ,

Wouldn’t surprise me if that’s what sealed the deal for him.

I mean the deadlines are closing and having to fight to even stay in the race while president of the U.S. and recovering from an illness is not something anyone looks forward to.

Frankly I hope he can catch a break for a bit, and enjoy a pension after all this is over.

assassin_aragorn ,

He came out and said multiple times that he wasn’t going anywhere

This was always going to be one of those things where “despite saying 8 hours ago that he was committed to the election and was not going to drop out, he has now dropped out”. You’re never going to see someone in these situations say “eh might drop out, not sure”

fine_sandy_bottom ,

So what.

The point is, it’s time to unite behind a candidate and look like we want to win.

Sconrad122 ,

Am one of those “assholes”. Kamala was far from my favorite candidate in 2020, but I just donated a hefty (for me) chunk of change and will be volunteering. I didn’t need perfection, just a feasible path to victory in November and now we have it. I’m so pumped right now, project 2025 no longer looks like an inevitability. LFG!

FlaminGoku ,

Riley Reid: Oh god you’re going to make me vote

Hackworth ,

I will vote for whoever the Dems put up, as I would have voted for BIden. It’s fantastic that he stepped down, cause he is clearly unfit to serve. He should probably step down from the Presidency right now, asshole.

Wiz ,
  • for whomever

It’s the object of the preposition, asshole. Git gud.

Hackworth ,

Truly a clarion call for unity.

utubas ,

Lmao

andrewth09 ,

I am one of those assholes. Once the DNC formally endorses a candidate I’ll donate to their campaign.

_wizard ,
@_wizard@lemmy.world avatar

Fuck.

NateNate60 ,

Yeah, fuck. I just lost $60 on a bet over this

timewarp ,
@timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

$60 well lost for a better candidate.

match ,
@match@pawb.social avatar

I’ll match that donation

Heikki ,

He was literally doing the job and doing it well.

Some of the accomplishments:

Lowering Costs of Families’ Everyday Expenses. More People Are Working Than At Any Point in American History. Making More in America. Rescued the Economy and Changed the Course of the Pandemic. Rebuilding our infrastructure. Historic Expansion of Benefits and Services for Toxic Exposed Veterans. CHIP Act

Here is the full list of his accomplishments.

timewarp ,
@timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

He wasn’t going to beat Trump. Why would you want Trump to win?

timbuck2themoon ,

Yeah sure.

Let’s see if whoever they come up with beats trump. Then you can crow.

NewNewAccount ,

Biden was going to lose. The next candidate may not.

morphballganon , (edited )

I know who could beat Trump.

https://i.postimg.cc/3J20n9kQ/prezposter.png

TacticsConsort ,
@TacticsConsort@yiffit.net avatar

You’re not wrong, but the comparison I like here is Ruth Bader Ginsberg. She wasn’t just doing her job well, she was one of the best Supreme Court Justicies EVER.

She didn’t resign when the time was right, and as a result she died under Trump, a republican got her seat, and all the great things she did were swiftly demolished, wrecking decades of work over one single mistake: Not knowing when to step down.

Now I know the situation isn’t perfectly comparable. But if Trump gets in, then every good thing Biden has done will be swiftly undone. This was a hellish dilemma, but if Biden wants to do his job well, he needs to do that by not letting Trump into the White House again.

JoeBigelow ,
@JoeBigelow@lemmy.ca avatar

My mom doesn’t like when I talk about how badly RBG fucked the people she legitimately worked so hard to uplift and protect, in my opinion because of her ego. I hold very little resentment because I understand wanting to personally preserve your legacy, but that motivation seems to fail more often than allowing someone else to preserve it for you.

rsuri , (edited )

Except he was failing at the most important job - stopping another 4 years of Trump. And yes, that’s partly the media’s fault, but it’s mostly Biden’s fault. Trump’s debate performance matched what could’ve been predicted pretty closely, and Biden failed to rebut Trump effectively and often seemed to help Trump argue against himself. For example, they should’ve easily foreseen that Trump would do the weird brag about his cognitive test scores. Why was there no response to that? Why not demand that Trump produce the results instead of just brag about them, or point out that nobody asked or is impressed by his ability to read a clock? There were like 50 opportunities during that debate for Biden to end Trump’s whole campaign, he missed each one.

Clearly this was unacceptable, and I hope the next candidate dispenses with the vast majority of Biden’s election team.

Clinicallydepressedpoochie ,

Booo. Biden was a rubber stamper. He never had a progressive thought in his life.

towerful ,

IMO, as an outsider, he has done a great job.
Among many successes that have drifted across my news feeds, he has also excelled past the really low bar of “not making a mockery of the US”.

That statement is not exclusive from the statement that “Biden should not run again”.

It’s 4 years later. And he would have to do another 4 years if he won.
I know presidents are more than just a person in the same way a ship can’t sail with only it’s captain. But strong leadership is going to make everything easier.
And Biden is old.

Clinicallydepressedpoochie ,

Better then losing your country.

theherk ,

yeah!

timewarp ,
@timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

FUCK YES!!! Finally the stubborn old man did what we knew he needed to do all along.

Snowclone ,

It’s really a good move. At this point any person under 70 could mop the floor with trump, he’s still the worst possible candidate from any position, and the GOP has had zero time to poison whoever gets the nomination.

cogman ,

Yup. Kamala is also not a bad pick because republicans are almost certainly going to start with racism/sexism as their first attacks “Oh, she’s DEI”. Given trump has been trying to court the black/Latino vote, this will play against him.

Further, Kamala will be able to excellently push him on abortion. Biden really sucked at advocating for women’s rights even though that’s been a winner pretty much every time it’s been the focus of a campaign (there’s a reason Rs have backed away from mentioning it).

It’ll still be close and there’s still a lot of unknowns. However, I for one think this is the right move.

ImpressiveEssay ,

And now we apply the same logic to Trumps mental decline and very old age!!

Right …?? Right!?

SnotFlickerman ,
@SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

abcnews.go.com/Politics/…/story?id=112129063

Captainvaqina ,

No one gives a fuck what that fascist loser thinks.

Clinicallydepressedpoochie ,

Fuck

Yeah!

Kroxx ,

Fuck yes you mean! I’m joking, I can see how this is scary and it is risky to an extent( although way less than Biden staying in imo). Here is what I would consider about this though as a positive:

I think this will at least partially reinvigorate the voting population

I don’t know this of course but personally I haven’t been excited about pretty much anything happening in politics in a while. I am actually excited and they haven’t even picked a new nominee yet. Harris would be my least popular pick but if they pick her I will be way more happy/motivated about voting. I hope this pumps some blood into voter turnout.

bdonvr ,

Biden had zero, and I mean ZERO chance of winning. This was the only real choice.

merc ,

He definitely didn’t have zero chance, nobody knows what his chances would have been. This is all uncharted waters.

fubarx ,

The biggest hot-topic issue this election should have been abortion (and by extension, SCOTUS). But the discussion got side-tracked by all this talk of old age. The debate just reinforced the narrative and concern with Biden. They would have hammered him over and over, with Trump bragging about how quickly he recovered from an injury.

Now, we have:

  • A sittingVP with actual Whitehouse experience, who can take credit for all the economic policies under Biden. Also, a former Senator.
  • A prosecutor and former Attorney General vs a convicted felon.
  • The age issue disappears (in fact, it now becomes a liability against Trump).
  • A woman vs the guy who bragged about killing Roe v. Wade.
  • Future of SCOTUS.

If she just keeps talking about those topics non-stop, she’ll do fine.

The only thing better would have been if Biden had resigned to let people see her in the actual role, but this works. She picks a mid-westerner as VP who can stand up to Vance and it’s a whole new ballgame.

I’m actually stoked about this race again.

HonkTonkWoman ,

Could we tap Liz Cheney to be our Vance wrangler?

Not a candidate, no, KH will still need a VP.

I just mean a wrangler. Someone who’s sole purpose is to disrupt JD Vance anyway possible…

Maybe she could:

  • Follow JD around, constantly whispering that she’s going to grab him by his pussy
  • Send him noose shaped flowers and cakes to decorate his new office
  • Pay Clint Howard to randomly walk by Vance every day & accuse him of ruining his brother’s directing career
  • Leave a conspicuous trail of classified documents behind him
  • Lewdly suggest she would have her relations with her attractive child, on camera
  • Smear fecal matter on his desk & let Pelosi call of his efforts a bowl of poopoo
  • Constantly make contact & remind JD who her father is.

I think Liz Cheney would be awesome at all of these things. As long as we don’t “elect” her, what could go wrong?

fubarx ,

As entertaining as the Cheney vs Vance debate would be, she voted an awful lot to support Trump policies. Guessing she’s happy to wait for the Trump collapse, then offer herself up as a return to a more traditional GOP.

HonkTonkWoman ,

That’s a really intelligent point… much more intelligent than mine…

Guess all this craziness has left me with the heebie-jeebies.

verdantbanana ,
@verdantbanana@lemmy.world avatar

nothing got sidetracked it just was never dealt with or talked about in a meaningful discussion or in any way in the last fifty years of Biden’s career

just like the minimum wage is not enough to cover the astronomical costs of food and housing and was not even brought up during the debate

yes lets support a prosecutor that represents the police who want their boots shined with our tongues

TrickDacy ,

Propose someone else who can win.

I know there’s a whole chorus of lemmings who cannot fathom uttering anything but criticism, but maybe if you tried you could have an actual idea of your own?

merc ,

Unfortunately we also have:

  • A non-white candidate
  • A non-male candidate
  • A very sexist and racist electorate, who basically voted Trump in because they were so upset by the election of Barack Hussein Obama

It remains to be seen if the racists and sexists will prevail.

Having said that, this might energize women who are on the fence and want to see the first female president. It might energize black voters. It will almost certainly energize Indian voters, possibly even all South-Asian voters. It will definitely energize voters who were worried about the age of the candidates. And now, suddenly, Trump has to go on the defensive about his age.

As long as all the democrats fall in line and push for Kamala, it might go really well. If Hillary Clinton goes out and works for Kamala, it could energize the people who are still angry about her loss, and can now channel that into the new option for a first female president. If Biden campaigns for her, it could reassure all the people who just wanted some stability.

OTOH, if there is infighting, and people trying to take her down so that they can become the nominee, then that could be trouble too.

seejur ,

The racists, as OP mentioned, would have voted for Trump regardless. The Dems need to convince the moderate, undecided voters

merc ,

Not at all. The Nazis would have voted for Trump regardless. But, there are a lot of biased people out there who wouldn’t even think of themselves as racist or sexist, they’ll just “have doubts”.

Unconscious bias is a major issue.

Anybody right now who is undecided is not moderate. The moderates are all already voting against Trump. Anybody undecided is either a very-low-information voter, who mostly gets their news from TikTok or conspiracy forums, or they’re a very right-wing voter who hates the democrats with a passion, but are having trouble getting over their dislike of Trump too.

fine_sandy_bottom ,

I don’t disagree with you, but let’s not forget apathetic voters… people that were just disenchanted with both of the old guys and wouldn’t vote for either.

Surely Kamala will get some traction with women.

merc ,

Definitely, I just wonder how that will compare with the sexist vote (both men and women (but mostly men)).

Cornelius_Wangenheim ,

If they chose to vote, sure. Plenty of them that would have stayed home are now going to be highly motivated.

TheDannysaur ,

How many people, realistically, would vote for a white male Democrat but NOT a non-white female?

People are talking about this, but I don’t know who this voter is. The hard line racists and sexists were not moderates, they’re all already Republican.

There are far more democrats that were against Biden because of his age than would be against Harris as a woman. This is a net gain. Fuck the people who won’t vote for her along gender or racial lines. I don’t want to try and appease them.

Give people something to vote FOR rather than vote against.

GBU_28 ,

There are definitely SOME very center democrats or even centerish republicans who will have reservations about Harris for her categories.

It’s not your job to appease them but it’s important we get their votes.

Personally I think those votes will be safe regardless, as trimp is just that repugnant.

merc ,

How many people, realistically, would vote for a white male Democrat but NOT a non-white female?

Far too many. It doesn’t mean they’re going to admit, even to themselves, that the reason they’re making that choice is that they hate women. But, unconscious bias is a helluva thing.

www.pbs.org/newshour/features/hidden-sexism/

Fuck the people who won’t vote for her along gender or racial lines. I don’t want to try and appease them.

Would you rather appease them and win, or not appease them and lose?

Schmoo ,

Would you rather appease them and win, or not appease them and lose?

Sacrificing your values to win is no true victory.

Here’s the way I see it:

If you’re right and there are too many closet racists/sexists for a black woman to win, and we run her anyway, then we lose. If we don’t run her in order to appease the racists and we “win” we’ve actually still lost because we sacrificed a core value. That sacrifice will haunt the Democrats as the decay that was already happening will accelerate.

It’s the same cowardice that has plagued the Democrats for decades. Choosing appeasement for political convenience over and over, each time removing a section of their spines until there’s none of it left. Do not let fear control you.

GBU_28 ,

I think the massive majority of Biden voters will take any democrat over trump,.and we also have the opportunity to shed some of the “sins” of the Biden admin, in the sense that Harris can say “i saw how it was first hand, but here’s how I’d change it if I were in charge.”

paddirn ,

I would love for Kamala Harris to be more charismatic and less ineffectual than she currently is, I’ll vote for whoever is not Trump. Now is the perfect opportunity to reinvigorate the campaign and turn everything upside down, but I’m not optimistic. They’ll probably trot out Hillary Clinton again if it’s not Harris, and it’ll be a replay of 2016.

dhork ,

The only thing better would have been if Biden had resigned to let people see her in the actual role, but this works.

I used to be an advocate for this, until I realized that in this political environment, whoever President Harris picks for VP would need both House and Senate approval, and this House will take a page from Mitch’s book and simply not bother. So you would have your first female and mixed-race President, in a country full of armed bigots, and if they get to her, Mike Johnson becomes President and can start Project 2025 early.

macarthur_park ,

Fortunately she could just order his assassination, call it an official act (“he was obstructing the confirmation of my vice president”), and get off scot-free.

Yes I realize this would never work because

  1. Harris would never do that, and democrats would never allow it, and
  2. the Supreme Court would immediately rule this is not an official act for “reasons”.
GBU_28 ,

I wonder if there’s political wrangling available for them to just swap lol. Technically each are already confirmed by Congress.

chiliedogg ,

Pro-choice is poison at the General election. It does well as a ballot initiative, but the reality is that very few pro-choice moderates and right-leaning people will change their vote over the issue, whereas pro-lifers are far and away the strongest single-issue voting group.

If Harris and Trump were identical in every way except their stance on abortion, how many Dem voters would flip for Trump in order to vote pro-choice? Would you?

Because millions of people who are otherwise liberal-leaning vote based on their pro-lifer position.

The biggest reason Dems got a Roe boost in 2022 was pro-lifer voters who didn’t feel the need to vote Republican because they’d won and could focus on other issues. But running a campaign based on restoring Roe undoes that bump.

Maggoty ,

That’s not what the data tells us. If that was the case the abortion referendums would have failed while Democrats got a push. But they didn’t. They consistently succeeded in even the reddest areas. Abortion protections gets people out to vote.

chiliedogg ,

Abortion refferendums are easy.

A pro-choice gun nut won’t vote Democrat because he cares more about guns than the right to choose. But when you put it as a ballot initiative he doesn’t have to weigh it against anything else.

The thing about single-issue voters is that they can swing elections even though they’re a minority. The GOP has survived for decades by embracing the pro-life and pro-gun voters. These are massive groups with voters on one side who will base the entirety of their vote on the issue, while the other side of the debate doesn’t.

Maggoty ,

The GOP has survived for decades because we vote for land, not people. They consistently hold majorities in government with a minority of the population.

fubarx ,

2022 should have been a red wave, but wasn’t. There are proposals to make draconian anti-abortion laws national and override state protections.

I wouldn’t underestimate its power to reengage voters, especially the youth vote.

Draedron ,

Now you have someone who has not been seen since she was elected VP with no time at all to prepare her for a presedential run. You will get Trump again because the dems are so fucking stupid and stabbed Biden in the back this late.

Maggoty ,

You think she hasn’t been preparing for 2028?

Draedron ,

She hasnt been doing anything since becoming VP. Biden could have had a sack of rice as VP and the result would be the same.

Maggoty ,

That’s how most VPs act.

Draedron ,

Biden and Pence still had public showing and were talked about sometimes. Harris was completely invisible. And most dont randomly jump in less than 4 month before the election.

Varyk , (edited )

Fair amount of schadenfreude at the panic right now, having been shouted down for weeks for telling people they should stop self-indulgently and anxiously begging Biden to step aside, since he already beat Trump and has gained a lot of allies through progressive legislation.

I’m very curious who the DNC is going to dredge up since the only person who could unite the left is Bernie Sanders and the DNC has previously explicitly declined him.

Enjoy laying in the bed you’ve made, every short-sighted doofer who asked for this.

kandoh ,

You guys have delusional views on Bernie Sanders.

Varyk ,

In what way?

kandoh ,

You think he’s more popular than he is, younger than he is, and more unwilling to compromise his values than he is.

Varyk ,

Zero out of three for you.

You’re projecting.

I know the first two and there is plenty of counterevidence for the third.

Popular - he is

Old - doesn’t matter

Compromises values - mountains of counterevidence over half a century of progressive politics.

Do you have any evidence to suggest relevance to your comment?

criitz ,

Bernie is popular with the left (including me) but not Democrats at large (and definitely not with the right). He didn’t get nearly enough support in 2016 to make it. He’s definitely not one to compromise his values though, I don’t know where the commenter got that idea.

Varyk , (edited )

If he was endorsed by the DNC, I doubt he would have any trouble sweeping the election.

Perfect for trump too, he confounds and infuriates the conservatives but can’t be flapped.

There’s some dumb “not enough” crap kooks are spreading about AOC and Sanders not being left for not literally firebombing the white house over Palestine.

Such a ridiculous remark is likely tangential to that or a similar fabrication.

kandoh ,

Popular — he lost to Hilary Clinton

Old — clearly age does matter

Compromises values — Voted for the ACA with no public option (which he promised he wouldn’t do)

Varyk ,

Wildly wrong again, keep swinging.

  1. Incorrect and irrelevant
  2. Incorrect, especially now.
  3. He literally voted to help millions of people access healthcare. Which are his consistent values.

Geez, you’re terrible at this.

kandoh ,

Citations needed

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