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Noughmad , in Lemmy since the reddit collapse

Yeah, you can call yourself a leftist all you want, but when 90% of your posts is calling Biden and Zelensky Nazis but you never criticize Putin or Trump, I get certain doubts.

Gelamzer ,
@Gelamzer@hexbear.net avatar

Who are these "leftists"that criticize Biden but not Trump

Noughmad ,
Gelamzer ,
@Gelamzer@hexbear.net avatar

Pretty sure lemmygrad is not pro trump

Noughmad ,

That’s what I thought too, but somehow there is a “600 page report on the contents of Hunter Biden’s laptop” on their front page.

Like I said, they call themselves leftists, but everything there is only anti-Biden, anti-NATO and anti-Ukraine. Nothing about republicans pushing for child labor, for example, which should be the most important priority for a pro-workers group.

GarbageShoot ,

Nothing about republicans pushing for child labor,

There are articles about this regularly on Hexbear and, I must assume, on Lemmygrad as well.

People like the Hunter story because it’s funny and there is genuine corruption going on, but I don’t think any of them think it’s actually important.

420LetPobedy ,

Posts about the ongoing child labour in the US appear on hexbear and lemmygrad frequently…

Trump isn’t president, It’s not weird for leftists to criticise those in power more often, nor an offensive organisation responsible from bombing innocent working people or a banderite state for that matter

Noughmad ,

nor an offensive organisation responsible from bombing innocent working people

Weird that you mention this. I assume you mean NATO, because there is another organization responsible for bombing innocent working people right now, as well as taking the working people of their own country and sending them to die. Why is criticism reserved only for the one that did not start the current war?

banderite state

Can you show in what way is Ukraine more right-wing than Russia?

Thordros ,
@Thordros@hexbear.net avatar

Why is criticism reserved only for the one that did not start the current war?

Probably because none of us live in Russia, so criticizing them is a waste of time. Of course they suck, but there’s nothing we can do about it. Nobody in Russia is ever going to read our criticism.

We do, however, mostly live in NATO-aligned countries. We CAN affect change in our own countries. That is a productive conversation to have.

Can you show in what way is Ukraine more right-wing than Russia?

Nobody is claiming that. You’re having an argument with a guy you made up.

GarbageShoot ,

Can you show in what way is Ukraine more right-wing than Russia?

I hate the Russian government for being cynical liberal mafiosos who use reactionary rhetoric similar to if Republicans were transposed there (“our enemies are exporting homosexuality to us to weaken us” etc). That is still substantially different from making your #1 national hero a Holocaust perpetrator, which Ukraine has done.

Frank ,
@Frank@hexbear.net avatar

Liberals arguing in bad faith and ignorance? Couldn’t happen.

autismdragon ,
@autismdragon@hexbear.net avatar

“600 page report on the contents of Hunter Biden’s laptop”

Idk about Lemmygrad, I can’t speak for them (I also couldnt find this post when I went to check, and I doubt its slipped off the first two pages in the five hours since you posted this?)

But on Hexbear we think the Hunter Biden story is funny and dont take it seriously. We post about it to mock it.

Frank ,
@Frank@hexbear.net avatar

Supporting Trump is when you show interest in (admittedly boring and inconsequential) ongoing news issues.

Biden is a right wing monster who literally wrote the 1994 Crime Bill that has caused over a generation of misery, horror, and suffering. Not going to get in to the other ones because we literally have several pinned posts on the matter and I’m sick of re-iterating them to ideological brick walls.

g_g ,
@g_g@hexbear.net avatar

are the pro-Trump leftists in the room with us right now?

CloutAtlas ,

Posting about Trump or Putin being bad would be akin to making posts about ISIS being bad: it goes without saying.

Like 99% of people on this platform already agrees with you, it’s really not a contentious issue. There’s no significant MAGA or Russian nationalist instance federated. None of their supporters would see it, it would be a completely moot point.

Noughmad , (edited )

Oh how I wish that was true. Unfortunately I’ve seen far too many people support Russia in this war, both offline and online, including here.

Maybe I’m wrong about hexbear, I certainly hope that I am, but on lemmygrad I saw long posts with many upvotes explaining how this war is a good thing and Putin is a hero that is fighting against the capitalists etc.

Edit: and now lemmygrad had Hunter’s laptop on the front page. Could they be any more obvious?

Edit2: lol, you almost had me believing that I was wrong and just too paranoid. Then in this very thread I got two people from hexbear telling me how NATO and Ukraine are evil, heavily upvoted. Still nothing bad about either Trump or Putin. Thanks.

anachronist ,

Hunter Biden’s laptop is big news though. Why would it not be on the front page?

Frank ,
@Frank@hexbear.net avatar

It’s not though? We got tired of riffing on that literally years ago.

autismdragon ,
@autismdragon@hexbear.net avatar

Still nothing bad about either Trump or Putin.

Its because we don’t have to convince y’all that Trump and Putin are bad because you already think that. We’d just be spitting into an echo chamber, preaching to the choir. There’s no point. To be clear we dunk on Trump all the time. We do not like him.

Why do you think that leftists have to say “but also btw Trump is also bad” every time we criticize Biden? That would make no sense.

CloutAtlas ,

Right, but if you made a post about how Putin is a great leader or Republicans have better policies and child labour, homophobia and lower taxes on the rich are good on Hexbear you’re going to get shat on in the comments if not outright banned.

Criticizing NATO is more pressing because online discourse is extremely pro-NATO. Reddit, for example, loves NATO expansion and loved when Finland joined. None of the disdain for NATO is praise for Putin being a corrupt nationalist.

Also anything involving Hunter Biden is funny. He’s just an obscenely offbeat person. While the Trump children (except Tiffany and for now Barron) are just slimy sycophants trying to gain daddy’s approval while swindling money out of MAGA morons, Hunter is doing cocaine and sleeping with prostitutes. Its never really in our discourse for anti-Biden posts to criticize Hunter, he’s become a micro celebrity in his own right. If anything we literally like Hunter better than Joe

infuziSporg ,
@infuziSporg@hexbear.net avatar

We had a user who would uncritically support Russia and Operation Z. A “Z poster”, if you will. They were banned on several accounts and no one really missed them.

Some of us tepidly support the CPRF, which is largely controlled opposition. We recognize that counting since 2014, there’s a lot of propaganda, civilian strikes, and land mines coming from both sides. Most of us favor an immediate armistice along the present LOC that follows pretty closely a “dividing line” for the plurality ethnicity as evidenced by the past 30 years of linguistic, electoral, and poling data. And we favor quick peace as opposed to continued hostility that likely will go nowhere.

It sucks that Ukraine’s self-determination is being jeopardized by Russia. It sucks that Luhansk’s self-determination is being jeopardized by Ukraine. It sucks that there’s a geopolitical standoff between the two strongest military powers that overlays this. It sucks that the only imaginable ruling party in Russia is a reactionary capitalist one that was ushered in by Clinton’s intervention. And it sucks that they’re all probably just going to die in a field to resolve it, and make the situation in Bosnia look like a vacation resort in comparison.

There is a silver lining in that we are seeing a great power struggle to subjugate its neighbor, and also in that the wearing down of NATO and Russia allows the less belligerent, more progressive, emerging superpower to have more sway in the world. Some might say that makes it “worth it” but I certainly don’t.

Noughmad ,

Most of us favor an immediate armistice along the present LOC

This is uncritically supporting the Z operation. It rewards the attacker and gives them absolutely no reason to not try again in 10 years (either in the same country or in another one). It’s also what happened in 2014 and you see the results of that now.

Would you favor an immediate armistice with the Nazis in 1943? I surely hope not, but that would be a quick peace, very much like what the advocate for now.

nohaybanda ,

I’m not sure you know the meaning of the word uncritical but go off.

Also, just so we’re on the same page, what do you believe happened in 2014 and what has happened since then until Feb 2022? What political and demographic conditions do you believe set the stage for the conflict that has been going on since then?

Your comparison to WW2 in 1943 is also wildly off. For one, you’ve got it mixed up which side is wearing the Nazi insignia and celebrating Nazi collaborators and enthusiastic participants in the Holocaust. For another, the USSR turned the war around in 1943. It would make no sense to call for armistice when you’re winning. Ukraine is currently stalled and bleeding manpower and materiel. The counteroffensive is all but done, were it not for Western insistence that fighting continues to the last Ukrainian.

Noughmad ,

For one, you’ve got it mixed up which side is wearing the Nazi insignia and celebrating Nazi collaborators and enthusiastic participants in the Holocaust.

I don’t know, which side are Wagner and Rogozin on?

For another, the USSR turned the war around in 1943. It would make no sense to call for armistice when you’re winning. Ukraine is currently stalled and bleeding manpower and materiel. The counteroffensive is all but done, were it not for Western insistence that fighting continues to the last Ukrainian.

USSR was just as stalled in early 1943, bleeding manpower and materiel, getting massive war supplies from the USA, and the West was insisting that fighting continues to the last Russian. Sounds familiar?

SmokinStalin ,
@SmokinStalin@hexbear.net avatar

Nazis fighting Nazis

ThereRisesARedStar ,

I don’t know, which side are Wagner and Rogozin on?

Okay but can you actually name institutional promotion of nazism? For example publishing celebrations of Bandera, putting the OUN trident on old soviet monuments, funding neonazi run youth camps, etc?

I’m guessing you can’t because while there are certainly Nazi Russians they’ve also tried to suppress any sort of Nazi organizing within Russia. The state is hostile to organized Nazism unlike Ukraine.

To be clear, theyre still a right wing neoliberal hellscape, but it is a low bar to clear and one clears it.

GoodEye8 ,

While it should go as without saying I think it’s pretty hard to take it that way when the following statements get made a) The legitimate Ukraine government was overthrown in a NATO croup, b) Ukraine government is a neo-nazi government, c) DPR and LPR are legitimate countries and d) NATO started the war in Ukraine. Every single one of those is a Russian state propagated talking point, all of them made around nuggets of facts (like the leaked chat where some US officials were discussing who should or shouldn’t be in the new government) but ultimately warped into something that can’t definitely be proven true or false. Thus whoever spreads those talking points wants to believe those statements as true, which begs the question of why to believe they’re true.

ThereRisesARedStar ,

a) The legitimate Ukraine government was overthrown in a NATO croup, b) Ukraine government is a neo-nazi government, c) DPR and LPR are legitimate countries and d) NATO started the war in Ukraine. Every single one of those is a Russian state propagated talking point, all of them made around nuggets of facts

So, theyre all Russian talking points but theyre also all supported by evidence?

This is a thing that annoys me about liberal conceptions of bias. Everything is biased, the question is how factual things are.

(like the leaked chat where some US officials were discussing who should or shouldn’t be in the new government)

Yes, this is what we call discussing who should be in the puppet government. You’ll note that they kept the moderate “we should be nuetral between the US and Russia” organizers out and brought the nazis in.

GoodEye8 ,

So, theyre all Russian talking points but theyre also all supported by evidence?

As if to prove my point… I said they’re statements made around certain known fact, facts that don’t really prove the statement. Like the “coup”. Fact is that there was a discussion between Nuland and Pyatt, which proves US was in talks with the opposition. But the fact doesn’t shine a light on the extent of their talks, including if they were plotting a coup or how much Ukrainians listened to them. To claim it was a coup you have to believe it was one topic of the discussions and the Ukrainians listened.

This is a thing that annoys me about liberal conceptions of bias. Everything is biased, the question is how factual things are.

I don’t have problem understanding that things are biased. It’s just odd how western narrative get criticism but Russian narrative is seemingly taken without question.

Yes, this is what we call discussing who should be in the puppet government. You’ll note that they kept the moderate “we should be nuetral between the US and Russia” organizers out and brought the nazis in.

You just said the question is how factual things are, so factual proof that nazis were brought in? Because from the leak they were actually talking to keep ultranationalists like Tyahnybok out.

ThereRisesARedStar ,

Fact is that there was a discussion between Nuland and Pyatt, which proves US was in talks with the opposition.

Talking about who should be in government and those people “coincidentally” being installed is plotting to install a puppet government.

But the fact doesn’t shine a light on the extent of their talks, including if they were plotting a coup or how much Ukrainians listened to them. To claim it was a coup you have to believe it was one topic of the discussions and the Ukrainians listened.

Or were forced to. The point is we know they were successful at installing their people and keeping others out, and “it was just a coincidence” seems improbable given how popular Klitsch was.

It’s just odd how western narrative get criticism but Russian narrative is seemingly taken without question.

The western narrative deserves criticism. And hexbear is very critical of the Russian narrative, just not the things that they say that are supported by evidence.

You just said the question is how factual things are, so factual proof that nazis were brought in? Because from the leak they were actually talking to keep ultranationalists like Tyahnybok out.

The thing is Tyahnybok was a nobody politically, they went with the more well known Yats as prime Minister. You’ll note that Yats is the leader of the “Fatherland” party

They also say about the defacto leader of the movement Klitsch and the other moderate democrats:

I guess… in terms of him not going into the government, just let him stay out and do his political homework and stuff. I’m just thinking in terms of sort of the process moving ahead we want to keep the moderate democrats together.

I want to ask the reader something, what is being said here? Does this come off as innocent?

No, exactly. And I think we’ve got to do something to make it stick together because you can be pretty sure that if it does start to gain altitude, that the Russians will be working behind the scenes to try to torpedo it. And again the fact that this is out there right now, I’m still trying to figure out in my mind why Yanukovych (garbled) that. In the meantime there’s a Party of Regions faction meeting going on right now and I’m sure there’s a lively argument going on in that group at this point. But anyway we could land jelly side up on this one if we move fast. So let me work on Klitschko and if you can just keep… we want to try to get somebody with an international personality to come out here and help to midwife this thing. The other issue is some kind of outreach to Yanukovych but we probably regroup on that tomorrow as we see how things start to fall into place.

Because to me this reads as plotting to install certain leaders within Ukraines new government.

GoodEye8 ,

You’re literally proving my point. You’ve added nothing to factually prove the coup, you’re adding assumptions to make the fact fit the narrative. Also Yats is not the leader of the Fatherland party, he used to be there but moved to People’s front in 2014.

ThereRisesARedStar ,

You’re literally proving my point. You’ve added nothing to factually prove the coup

I dont need to add more stuff. What they said makes it obvious they’re talking about a soft or hard coup. You’re being shown a red balloon and asking for more proof it’s a red balloon.

What would you accept as proof, if not the senior US officials there talking about who should be in government and about moving to make it happen?

Also Yats is not the leader of the Fatherland party, he used to be there but moved to People’s front in 2014.

Oh, cool, the people’s front! Let’s learn more about them:

The Ukrainian People’s Party (Ukrainian: Українська Народна Партія; Ukrains’ka Narodna Partiya) is a political party in Ukraine, registered on Old Year’s Day 1999 as the Ukrainian National Movement

Oh. Cool. A nationalist pseudo populist organization. Where have I seen those before?

GoodEye8 ,

Russian politicians were also talking how Russia should nuke Nevada test site, so I guess Russia has nuked America because the only thing required to make it true is someone talking about it.

The Ukrainian People’s Party (Ukrainian: Українська Народна Партія; Ukrains’ka Narodna Partiya) is a political party in Ukraine, registered on Old Year’s Day 1999 as the Ukrainian National Movement

For fuck sake, at the very least search for the right thing. not this, but this.

ThereRisesARedStar , (edited )

Russian politicians were also talking how Russia should nuke Nevada test site, so I guess Russia has nuked America because the only thing required to make it true is someone talking about it.

Did a nuke go off at the Nevada test site in a way that wasn’t connected to US nuclear testing? If so, it would be reasonable to assume the Russians who talked about doing it did it if it furthered their geopolitical objectives.

For fuck sake, at the very least search for the right thing. not this, but this.

Oh, sorry. But still, theyre described as a conservative nationalist party and split from the “Fatherland” party. Also the leader of Azov Battalion was on their military council. Hrmm.

GoodEye8 ,

it would be reasonable to assume the Russians who talked about doing it did it if it furthered their geopolitical objectives.

Now you’re word for word proving what I originally claimed. If something happened and another factual event happened, that may or may not be related, and you believe they’re related then it’s okay to make the assumption that asserts your belief.

But still, theyre described as a conservative nationalist party and split from the “Fatherland” party.

Conservative doesn’t mean neonazi and maybe they split to be less radical?

Also the leader of Azov Battalion was on their military council. Hrmm.

I’m tired of constantly correcting you so I’m just going say wrong

ThereRisesARedStar ,

Now you’re word for word proving what I originally claimed. If something happened and another factual event happened, that may or may not be related, and you believe they’re related then it’s okay to make the assumption that asserts your belief.

Yes, it is extremely reasonable.

If John Smith talked about killing Jake Jones and was recorded, and then Jake Jones showed up killed as John Smith described he would be, then it would be reasonable to assume that John Smith killed Jake Jones. Jake Jones’ head could have just done that spontaneously, but it is unlikely.

Do you have an alternate explanation for them saying “we’re going to install the people we want and keep out the people we dont” and then that happening?

Conservative doesn’t mean neonazi and maybe they split to be less radical?

Okay but there are neonazis in the Wikipedia article you linked about them

Begin article quote

The military council is a special body of People’s Front. It develops proposals for strengthening of the defence system of Ukraine.

The council was created on 10 September 2014 together with the political and coordinating councils of the party. It was formed by the party congress which also approved the council’s composition. It included the Chief of Staff of the party and Chairman of the Verkhovna Rada Oleksandr Turchynov, Interior Minister Arsen Avakov, coordinator of the “Information Resistance” blog, Lt. Col. Dmytro Tymchuk, former acting Head of the Presidential Administration and co-founder of the revived National Guard Serhiy Pashynskiy and former secretary of the National Security and Defence Council of Ukraine, Euromaidan commandant and organizer of the Maidan self-defense units Andriy Parubiy.

The council is made up of leading commanders of the territorial defense battalions: Andriy Biletsky, commander of the Azov Battalion, Yuriy Bereza, commander of the Dnipro Battalion, Kostyantyn Mateichenko, commander of the Artemivsk battalion, Roman Pytski, commander of the Chernihiv battalion, Andriy Teteruk, commander of the Myrotvorets battalion, Yevhen Deydey, commander of the Kyiv-1 battalion, Mykola Shvalya, commander of the Zoloti Vorota battalion, Ihor Lapin, company commander of the Aidar Battalion Serhiy Sydoryn, vice-battalion commander of the National Guard and Mykhailo Havryluk, a soldier of the Kyivska Rus battalion.

End article quote

I’m tired of constantly correcting you so I’m just going say wrong

Begin article quote

The council is made up of leading commanders of the territorial defense battalions: Andriy Biletsky, commander of the Azov Battalion, Yuriy Bereza, commander of the Dnipro Battalion, Kostyantyn Mateichenko, commander of the Artemivsk battalion, Roman Pytski, commander of the Chernihiv battalion, Andriy Teteruk, commander of the Myrotvorets battalion, Yevhen Deydey, commander of the Kyiv-1 battalion, Mykola Shvalya, commander of the Zoloti Vorota battalion, Ihor Lapin, company commander of the Aidar Battalion Serhiy Sydoryn, vice-battalion commander of the National Guard and Mykhailo Havryluk, a soldier of the Kyivska Rus battalion.

GoodEye8 ,

Yes, it is extremely reasonable.

If John Smith talked about killing Jake Jones and was recorded, and then Jake Jones showed up killed as John Smith described he would be, then it would be reasonable to assume that John Smith killed Jake Jones. Jake Jones’ head could have just done that spontaneously, but it is unlikely.

It’s how 4chan and Reddit decided Sunil Tripathi was the Boston marathon bomber. A bombing happened, someone knew Sunil had gone missing, images kinda looked similar, people wanted to find a connection so they made whatever connection they could find. He wasn’t the bomber but people still started a witchhunt based on assumptions they thought were reasonable. So no, I don’t think blindly taking assumptions as factuals is extremely reasonable.

Do you have an alternate explanation for them saying “we’re going to install the people we want and keep out the people we dont” and then that happening?

Without any further information I’d say they’re just discussing ideas (in this case who should be in the government) to present to Yatseniuk with the goal of making sure Russia doesn’t sabotage the movement. Nothing about it implies planning a coup.

Okay but there are neonazis in the Wikipedia article you linked about them

I’m going to need more specifics than an information dump. Outside of the Azov being in the military council (which I admit was my mistake for not noticing, and I’ll get to why that’s not proof) and Andriy Parubiy (who I wouldn’t consider a Nazi because he been a target of that kind of disinformation campaign by pro-russian media) nobody else catches my eye.

As for the addition of Azov in that list. The council is not made up of territorial defense battalions, it’s made up of leaders of volunteer battalions. Azov was at that moment a volunteer battalion which is why they were included, along with the other leaders of the volunteer battalions. He wasn’t picked because he was neo-nazi, he was picked because he was leading one of the biggest volunteer battalions. The idea that the government is a neo-nazi government because the biggest political party in that government created a special body and that special body has one known neo-nazi is just bewildering. Look at how many hoops you have to jump through just to have some connection between neo-nazis and the 2014 Ukrainian parliament, and then tell me that is reasonable.

ThereRisesARedStar ,

It’s how 4chan and Reddit decided Sunil Tripathi was the Boston marathon bomber. A bombing happened, someone knew Sunil had gone missing, images kinda looked similar, people wanted to find a connection so they made whatever connection they could find. He wasn’t the bomber but people still started a witchhunt based on assumptions they thought were reasonable. So no, I don’t think blindly taking assumptions as factuals is extremely reasonable.

Okay, are you saying that this is a case of mistaken identity? I dont get what you’re trying to claim.

I treat the assumption as fact within my internal worldview because it is the only explanation I can think of for what happened and it has strong supporting evidence. We have records of them plotting, so they probably carried out their plot as it seems that what happened mirrored what their plot wanted.

Again, I would love an alternative explanation for what they said they wanted and were doing lining up with what happened.

As for the addition of Azov in that list. The council is not made up of territorial defense battalions, it’s made up of leaders of volunteer battalions. Azov was at that moment a volunteer battalion which is why they were included, along with the other leaders of the volunteer battalions. He wasn’t picked because he was neo-nazi, he was picked because he was leading one of the biggest volunteer battalions. The idea that the government is a neo-nazi government because the biggest political party in that government created a special body and that special body has one known neo-nazi is just bewildering. Look at how many hoops you have to jump through just to have some connection between neo-nazis and the 2014 Ukrainian parliament, and then tell me that is reasonable.

Wait, did you not go over the list and look at the political history of everyone involved? It’s much more than one nazi.

Do your research and then take a second attempt at replying.

GoodEye8 ,

Okay, are you saying that this is a case of mistaken identity? I dont get what you’re trying to claim.

I’m saying they took two factual things and then reasoned themselves to believe those things are connected. Which is exactly what you’re doing here.

I treat the assumption as fact within my internal worldview because it is the only explanation I can think of for what happened and it has strong supporting evidence. We have records of them plotting, so they probably carried out their plot as it seems that what happened mirrored what their plot wanted.

You’ve taken two factual things and then assumed based on your beliefs that they must be connected. There’s no evidence of them actually plotting a coup. I even gave you an alternative that very much suits what the leaked discussion was about.

Wait, did you not go over the list and look at the political history of everyone involved? It’s much more than one nazi.

Do your research and then take a second attempt at replying.

I’m not here to do your work lazyass. You said there are more, find your own proof and be more specific. Wikipedia dumps are not proof.

ThereRisesARedStar ,

I’m saying they took two factual things and then reasoned themselves to believe those things are connected. Which is exactly what you’re doing here.

Okay, yes. And it is reasonable. Do you have any other explanation for what happened?

Edit: lol lmao, this is your explanation

Without any further information I’d say they’re just discussing ideas (in this case who should be in the government) to present to Yatseniuk with the goal of making sure Russia doesn’t sabotage the movement. Nothing about it implies planning a coup.

That’s just straight up counterfactual to what they actually say lmao

End edit

You’ve taken two factual things and then assumed based on your beliefs that they must be connected. There’s no evidence of them actually plotting a coup. I even gave you an alternative that very much suits what the leaked discussion was about.

They’re literally talking about who should be in and out of government and moving to make it happen.

I’m not here to do your work lazyass. You said there are more, find your own proof and be more specific. Wikipedia dumps are not proof.

You’re literally the one being lazy.

I’m done, you’re more than entitled to your willfully ignorant, arrogant bullshit.

Frank ,
@Frank@hexbear.net avatar

I don’t think I could ever make you believe that we came to these conclusions based on an analysis of world history, economics, and the current geopolitical reality and didn’t need any help from Yuri at the FSB.

You literally don’t understand how we analyze geopolitics.

“The most revolutionary thing one can do is always to proclaim loudly what is happening.”

rosa-shining

GoodEye8 ,

Of course you can’t, because there’s nothing you can provide except your belief that it is the way you want to believe.

Frank ,
@Frank@hexbear.net avatar

That’s nice.

GoodEye8 ,

Feel free to provide proof.

SigloPseudoMundo ,

You forgot the genocide denial as well. I don’t understand why they worship Russia like the ussr is still around.

DragonTypeWyvern ,

Anarchists didn’t like the fucking USSR either.

SmokinStalin ,
@SmokinStalin@hexbear.net avatar

Oop im feeling it, gotta worship Russia now. stalin-smokin. Wanna hit?

DivineChaos100 ,
@DivineChaos100@hexbear.net avatar

Literally posted 3 articles yesterday criticising trump but go off.

K1nsey6 ,
@K1nsey6@lemmy.world avatar

Trump isn’t in power, no one is defending Putin, the US set the stage for the invasion and knew exactly how it would play out. Trying to claim they are defending their right to sovereignty, which is bullshit.

Lightor ,

No one is defending Russia or Putin? They sure as shit are trying to smoke screen it hard.

rollingstone.com/…/these-are-the-american-right-w…

K1nsey6 ,
@K1nsey6@lemmy.world avatar

The person I replied to was talking about leftists. The only one talking about right wingers is you

Lightor ,

The comment was about defending Russia and Putin. You said no one was, you were wrong. Right wingers are the ones doing that, so I showed receipts, to prove you are wrong. Sorry reality upsets you.

Also you literally linked a source to theconservative.com, you can’t make this stuff up.

K1nsey6 ,
@K1nsey6@lemmy.world avatar

I linked to theCONVERSATION.com. Your echo chamber reactionary thinking has you seeing things that are not there.

So yes, you CAN just make things up

Lightor ,

Lol ok bud, ignore everything said and focus on one small thing and yell about it. You’ve convinced me lol.

K1nsey6 ,
@K1nsey6@lemmy.world avatar

It’s not one small thing, it’s lots of big things

Lightor ,

Sure bud.

Noughmad ,

no one is defending Putin, the US set the stage for the invasion

That has to be the shortest contradiction.

K1nsey6 ,
@K1nsey6@lemmy.world avatar

Its not a contradiction, several politicians, Biden included, spoke of what would happen if the US threatened NATO expansion into Ukraine. Obama, McCain, Kerry, Nuland, and now Biden set the stage for Ukraine to get invaded. Claiming it was to protect democracy which is bullshit. If the US cared about democracy and sovereignty they wouldn’t have orchestrated a coup with the Pakistanian PM.

This war is 100% about decimating Ukraine so capitalists can go in and divide the spoils.

Ya_Boy_Skinny_Penis ,

Sure buddy. NATO was responsible for countries wanting to join NATO to forestall Russian invasions.

NATO was also responsible for all of Russia’s other post-USSR invasions, I bet.

Life must be interesting when you don’t understand history or politics.

K1nsey6 ,
@K1nsey6@lemmy.world avatar

Straight from the horses mouth

theconversation.com/ukraine-war-follows-decades-o…

Must be interesting when you are completely fucking clueless outside the official narrative.

Lightor ,

I mean, you’d know lol, with an unbiased source like theconservative.com lol. The people who are defending Russia. And you’re just eating it up.

K1nsey6 ,
@K1nsey6@lemmy.world avatar

I’m betting you made a judgment based on what you thought the website was. The website was theCONVERSATION.com. But go ahead and stick to your echo chamber and stay ignorant

Lightor ,

That’s a really round about way to show you’re defending the very things you said no one was lol.

mrbubblesort , in Breakfasts from around the world!
@mrbubblesort@kbin.social avatar

I'm sorry, wtf!!! A gallon of paint???? Please OP, that's ridiculous. We use metric here in Japan, it's 4 liters of paint. Do some research and get it right next time!

qwertychomp , in Whatchu got
ElPussyKangaroo ,

🫠

Nurse_Robot , in borders

The the the borders

fossilesque OP ,
@fossilesque@mander.xyz avatar

The the the remix

Roderik , in Got Promotion
@Roderik@lemmy.world avatar

Matter of fact, when you do get a raise you need to ask yourself if it’s truly a raise. Inflation decreases the purchasing power of your salary, so if you get a raise you might be getting what was your initial salary.

ITypeWithMyDick ,

You did a fantastic job, blew all your metrics out of the park. You were herr 6/7 days a week for the whole year and did the work of 3 people. We couldnt be more proud of you. So I went to bat for you, really fought like hell, and managed to get your raise increased from 3% to 5&!!!

Inflation was 8+%

jballs ,
@jballs@sh.itjust.works avatar

Oh shit, I didn’t know you were on my last performance review call.

InputZero ,

Just remember that I stuck my neck out for you. We’ve got a lot work coming in and I’ll need you to pick up some of the slack. Who knows, maybe this time next year you could be a team leader and switch over to salary. It opens a lot of opportunities.

EddieTee77 ,

Holy shit are you my boss because that exact conversation happened to me last year!

Honytawk ,

In Belgium we have mandatory wage increases to combat inflation.

Companies aren’t allowed to call them raises because that isn’t what they are.

Last year after Covid, we had an increase of 11-12%. Which was very nice.

volvoxvsmarla ,

Honestly this should be the norm everywhere.

Anticorp ,

Why not just freeze prices then? I guess because you still have to purchase goods from abroad that wouldn’t freeze prices? Inflation sucks and I hate it.

Liz ,

I hate inflation too, but I understand why it’s necessary. Imagine if rich people had an even easier time hoarding their wealth.

Although now that think of it, maybe at this point we really don’t need to create positive feedback loops for economic growth anymore.

explodicle ,

“Quiet firing”

Isakk86 , in Racismed

Just when I think I couldn’t hate him anymore, he omits the Oxford comma…

Imgonnatrythis ,

Did you just grammerism him?

FrankTheHealer ,

I didn’t notice until you mentioned it. The monster

Zehzin ,
@Zehzin@lemmy.world avatar

Don’t make me quote the 2008 hit single Oxford Comma by Vampire Weekend

hangonasecond ,

One of my favourite songs, but I am still an advocate for the Oxford Comma.

MinekPo1 ,
@MinekPo1@lemmygrad.ml avatar

smh he is racist, overconfident, and uneducated

ruckblack , in Everything I need is still in in the old settings windows that haven't changed in 23 years

It’s actually insane how difficult it can be to find settings in windows. Especially when the indexing breaks for the 1000th time and you can’t just search for it in the start menu.

Rentlar ,

Hey, maaaaaybe you wanted to search how to do that in Bing!

-Windows

lseif ,

nope, they definitely wanted an AI answer.

prime_number_314159 ,

AI answer: Type the setting into the start menu search bar. The first result will be the setting you’re looking for.

cyberpunk007 ,

This is the start menu experience:

“Photoshop”

*Wait 15 seconds *

“Here are some results from bing:”

😡😡

Mac and Linux it’s instant, and not some garbage AI/ads/web search results.

meowMix2525 ,

Lol I installed open shell several years ago and have not looked back since. If I wanted to search the web with your shitty search engine, microsoft, I would have opened your shitty browser, now please sit down.

Probably shouldn’t have installed it on my work computer for security compliance reasons but it’s such an improvement in my workflow that I couldn’t not install it. Highly recommend. Legit cannot imagine using windows without it anymore. github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu

ruckblack ,

I have no idea why it breaks like this so often too. And it’s such a pain in the ass to try to fix that I’ve generally given up on trying. At least when something very rarely happens with the indexer on Linux I know where to look to fix it.

labsin ,

Especially when you start typing something and it already started searching with your partial input and you your further and notice the thing your search for is first so you press enter, for it to now place another thing first with the extra input 😡

How can “displ” open display settings, but “display” opens a help page in Edge

BCsven ,

This. You seem to have to give it less. Also it is just broken. I have excel installed, if i start typing excel ( even with app filter) it can’t present it to me, it wants to hand me an ad or info page about what excel is and where to download it from

BCsven ,

I have a dual boot machine, windows takes forever to find sometging with or without indexing in use. Boot to linux I type 2-3 letters and GNOME/tracker index hands me files instantly. if I mount the NTFS windows partition in Linux and use the aearch in Nautilus it finds files faster than windows.

Psychodelic ,

I just install list art on all my computers. I occasionally test the windows search but it fails spectacularly, 9.5 out of 10 times

words_number ,

Hahaha yees! The start menu search is hilarious!! You install a software, type in the exact bame of the software afterwards and the start menu search gives you the installer from your download folder instead of the installed program with the exact name you typed. The devs must have a lot of fun there. This is peak satire.

AllonzeeLV , (edited ) in Halloween costume

In my experience, the most driven, most successful people, at least in western culture, tend to be vacant idiots that never question or consider their impulses or actions. Ready, fire, aim people are rewarded over careful planners.

“Gifted” people tend to be cursed to overconsider their own actions, often to the point of indolence, all the while being expected to respect and appreciate our backwater, superstitious civilization controlled by obvious con-artists manipulating that superstition, altering the language to embed their con into the culture(ex: greedy fuck businessman = “rationally self-interested job creator”), etc, all to aquire more power and wealth, because it’s never enough. Our leaders have no grand intellectual vision or endgame, just “give me more!”

Possessing great intellect in this civilization is more curse than blessing. You know better, but are hopelessly outnumbered by selfish animals far more concerned with getting more than their fellow humans than maximizing happiness for the species and homeostasis for our sole, shared habitat.

JoYo ,
@JoYo@lemmy.ml avatar

it’s survivorship bias, the impulsive ones could just as easily been born less privileged and just make everyone around them miserable.

ieightpi ,

It’s good to see that people are up voting this. All this talk of hidden societies pulling the strings is completely asinine. Most humans aren’t smart enough to pull off an illuminati heist. And the few that could will never have the resources to do so. It’s way more simple than all that. Deep down we are just run by our core animal instincts. So you can breathe easy knowing the world domination isn’t currently happening. Just a bunch of stupid monkeys playing with fire while the house around them burns down.

AllonzeeLV , (edited )

Exactly. The rich monkeys are joined in common purpose, but not out of some grand coordinated conspiracy. Their wealth class values and interests simply align.

George Carlin said it best on an episode of politically incorrect once:

"You don’t need a formal conspiracy when interests converge. These people went to the same universities, they’re on the same boards of directors, they’re in the same country clubs. They have like interests, they don’t need to call a meeting. They know what’s good for them."

youtu.be/VAFd4FdbJxs?si=20kZRCxv8OmjKHZ7

ieightpi ,

Carlin always know how to say it best

AllonzeeLV ,

For better or worse, George made me the man I am today.

starman2112 , in no window
@starman2112@sh.itjust.works avatar

>dishes go in dirty

>dishwasher yells and shakes for a few hours

>dishes come out clean

Are you guys really buying this?

MashedTech ,

It barely shakes compared to the washing machine. I’m not buying. I believe little elves scrub the dishes clean.

Viking_Hippie ,

Probably the same elves Santa enslaved. That or the Galadhrim of Lothlórien.

Jimmycrackcrack ,

Now the interesting part of the question. Most of us are probably pretty against the idea of slavery, but if you managed to pull back the curtain and found out it really was poor little enslaved elves in your dishwasher scrubbing all your dishes for you, would you say anything, and go back to scrubbing your dishes yourself and also try and find housing and a support network and medical and psychological services for the now freed elves? Or would you maybe just try to forget what you saw and keep putting your dishes in the magic cleaning box?

starman2112 ,
@starman2112@sh.itjust.works avatar

Truly the greatest test of morality in the modern age

limelight79 ,

I just spent a ridiculous number of hours replacing our dishwasher. This is a task that shouldn’t really take more than an hour or two, but there were complications caused by the previous owner of the house…plus I made the mistake of trying to fix our old dishwasher first.

If there are elves in that thing, I’d like to slap 'em around for putting me through that headache.

shrugal ,

I’m pretty sure the dishes that go in and the dishes that come out are not the same dishes!

Sheeple , in At least uBlock Origin is always up-to-date now
@Sheeple@lemmy.world avatar

Oh I just “remove element permanently” on U-Block origin.

Make sure to remove the invisible element too that covers the whole screen. They tried that to prevent ya from just opening the video anyway.

To deactivate the scrollblock, if you experience it,just go full screen once and go back out. Which can be easily automated via a macro or literally just pressing the F key twice.

YouTube’s attempts at blocking Adblockers are pathetic

Gradually_Adjusting ,
@Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world avatar

I’m not going to faff with all that until gray jay stops working

Sheeple ,
@Sheeple@lemmy.world avatar

You know what, valid. I’m just listing the solution I used. I’ll make sure to check out Grayjay too.

This is the also the reason why Google is guaranteed to fail in their efforts. If one way to bypass their crap fails, 3 others will be developed swiftly <3

jackpot ,
@jackpot@lemmy.ml avatar

wgats grayjay

Sheeple ,
@Sheeple@lemmy.world avatar

I have no idea but it appears to be a client side APK similar to YouTube vanced from my 5 minutes of poor research

nottheengineer ,

An app that lets you watch stuff from youtube, twitch, patreon, odyssey and more while respecting your privacy and having a better UI than any other streaming app.

sirico ,
@sirico@feddit.uk avatar

It’s YouTuber Louis Rossman aggregator for content with the idea that you follow the creator regardless of platform, so if they have a YouTube/twitch/odysee account you’ll get all of their content in one place so if youtube bans someone for something random as they do that creator and their audience aren’t affected

crandlecan ,

Sssst 😇

pensa ,

YouTube’s attempts at blocking Adblockers are pathetic

I've long maintained that the majority of programmers working for Alphabet/Google/YouTube spent more time learning how to get the job than how to do the job well. There is a lot more to coding than "Cracking the Coding Interview."

It's not about building cool things over there. Is has not been that way for a long time. They just want the money and reputation.

Skaryon ,

I don’t know. If I were a webdev at Google I would probably be against this nonsense as much as we are here. So I’d implement the most half assed ‘blocking’ of ad blockers possible knowing that the moron product manager who requested it won’t be able to tell.

Cinner Bot ,

That’s a great way to advance your career by the ‘genius’ kid that comes up with the much better way to do it and calls you out during a meeting while showing his already-written code that does much better than your senior dev self.

egeres ,
@egeres@lemmy.world avatar

I partially disagree, the average developer at google is very competent, yet, their work pipelines must be so long and complex that such talent gets somewhat diluted

baascus ,

Pihole has still been working reliably as well

nicolairathjen ,

How does this work? I’ve been considering using a Raspberry Pi for Pihole, but I’ve been discouraged as it wouldn’t work for YouTube anyways. How I understand it is that Pihole is DNS, which just blocks certain domains. Since Youtube ads and videos are indistinguishable from a networking POV, it won’t be able to block them. Am I wrong? Is there something I have misunderstood?

baascus ,

YouTube ads are distinguishable at the dns level for now at least. For the optimal setup I recommend docker-compose on a raspi with watchtower. This setup will automatically keep everything up to date but requires a little docker knowledge. Here’s some documentation:

github.com/pi-hole/docker-pi-holegithub.com/containrrr/watchtower

killeronthecorner ,
@killeronthecorner@lemmy.world avatar

Pi hole does not block it at all for me.

Have you tried accessing youtube in incognito a couple of times with adblockers disabled?

Not saying it isn’t true but I, and several other pihole users I know, still see the block without uBo

KnightontheSun ,

Long time Pi-Hole user here. It is not effective in this regard. Someone please prove me wrong.

killeronthecorner ,
@killeronthecorner@lemmy.world avatar

I don’t see how it could be given that they are loading a detection script in the client.

It has nothing to do with DNS. I suspect those saying that PiHole solves it simply haven’t been rolled out to yet (or are using adblockers but have forgotten)

odious ,

Not for me 🤔 I am running PiHole and the adblock thing still shows up. Which blocklists are you using?

altima_neo ,
@altima_neo@lemmy.zip avatar

I’ve never had pihole block YouTube ads. I don’t think it’s capable of that.

ClamDrinker ,

This was my gut reaction as well, but dont do this, the makers of uBlock Origin warn against it!https://www.reddit.com/r/uBlockOrigin/wiki/solutions/youtube/detection-faq/

Can’t I just hide the pop-up with uBO’s Picker?

No. Cosmetic filters don’t stop the message - they just temporarily hide it from view. The anti-adblock script will continue to run in the background and will eventually block you from watching videos. Please don’t use, share or recommend using any of those filters and don’t report any issues when using them.

Sheeple ,
@Sheeple@lemmy.world avatar

deleted_by_author

  • Loading...
  • 4am ,

    That’s still a cosmetic block and the script will eventually cut you off from the servers is what I think they more saying - as in, the servers will just refuse to send you the video.

    tourist ,
    @tourist@lemmy.world avatar

    Is it really that easy? Why did they even bother?

    They’ve known about ad blockers for well over decade now and their “solution” can be bypassed with inspect-element. Nice.

    Jako301 ,

    It is, in fact, not that easy. It works to hide the warning, but once you reache the stage where they block videos, it won’t help you.

    The better option is to block all scripts on YouTube and only whitelist the 2 or 3 that are necessary to watch videos.

    GissaMittJobb ,

    It hasn’t really mattered enough for them to spend any engineering time on it before. Zero interest rates are over, though, and money actually kind of means something now. This is just the first move in a chain of many.

    A warning for anyone relying on stuff like adblockers for YouTube - it’s not that hard for Google to figure out that we’re doing it, simply query for which users have zero ad impressions. Google also has a certain tendency to permaban Google accounts in violation of their policies and then ignoring all appeals. If you rely on Google accounts for email, photos and the like, this might be the time to plan contingencies.

    Personally I’ve started using Piped instead. The lack of recommendations is a bit of a bummer, but in all honesty it was kind of like the switch from Reddit to Lemmy - just had to wean myself off the digital sugar pills.

    altima_neo ,
    @altima_neo@lemmy.zip avatar

    I get the feeling that they aren’t trying particularly hard.

    JustAManOnAToilet ,

    It might be a cost benefit thing. They probably could hire a team to perfect it and be on hand round the clock playing whack a mole with every workaround that gets found, but the half measure might catch the masses and be enough to not warrant spending the extra to do that.

    Sheeple ,
    @Sheeple@lemmy.world avatar

    Unfortunately they are actually updating their anti adblock measures twice a day. Poorly but they still are

    altima_neo ,
    @altima_neo@lemmy.zip avatar

    No, I mean they could do what streaming services do and drm encode the stream, or make the ads indistinguishable from the videos, making it impossible to block.

    themusicman ,

    If the ads were added to the video stream (I assume this is what you’re suggesting) they can be easily skipped by scrubbing the timeline. On the other hand, if they add metadata so the client can make them unskippable, the ad blockers will have something to work with. Classic catch 22.

    vox ,
    @vox@sopuli.xyz avatar

    btw as a general rule, you can prevent scrollblock by just doing

    ##body:style(overflow:auto !important)

    JSens1998 ,

    They aren’t trying right now because they’re running tests. I’m assuming they’re testing what does and doesn’t work. They probably wanted us to find workarounds so they could patch them when they decide to actually roll out the anti-adblock feature.

    deegeese , in But cat domesticated us

    Farming -> grain -> rodents -> cats

    Norgur ,

    I like OP's version better, so that's what is fact now.

    danc4498 ,

    You can like it, but the hard truth is that cats were never domesticated. They can leave anytime they want and would be fine. Humans would never be the same, though…

    XTL ,

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestication_of_the_cat

    Indeed. I’m a little disappointed that wp doesn’t mention that other than in the naming and talk.

    A link from there:

    www.newyorker.com/tech/…/are-cats-domesticated

    angrystego , (edited )

    I think that’s because the narrow scientific term domestication is used in casual speach with a shifted meaning. And that’s because we don’t have any other expression for animals that you can be friends with that would sound as cool as domesticated (taming is too tame).

    Edit: Sorry, got lost in the threads. I’ll leave it here because it is still kind of on topic. I guess I should also add that domestication is a process and the line where an animal is considered domesticated is arbitrary.

    angrystego ,

    This only works for outdoor cats and in areas with plenty of prey. Most indoor cats don’t do well if left on their own and outdoor cats often struggle too.

    AdlachGyfiawn ,

    My cat would die in seconds if I let him outside. He’s too dumb to live.

    eezeebee ,
    @eezeebee@lemmy.ca avatar

    Me too. dO YuOr oWn rEsEaRch

    hemko ,

    Fake news.

    jaybone ,

    Fake meows

    bstix ,

    That’s what big cat wants you to think.

    In reality, cats already ate the rodents, but now you have to pay them for doing it.

    EternalNicodemus ,
    @EternalNicodemus@lemmy.world avatar

    Nuh uh, Cat domesticated us

    bitsplease ,

    Hell. Even today cats are great for pest control, my cats go nuts if there’s a fly in the house until they get it

    Granted, a cat leaping across the room constantly to try and get it is way more annoying than the fly itself, but still lol

    cyclohexane , in Hmmmm

    What matters isn’t who came first. What matters is that no one has the right to expel a human from a land they’re living in. That is the core of the Israeli Palestinian conflict.

    I am pro Palestine, but have no issue with the increase of Jewish migrations in the 19th century. The problem is not Jewish migration. It is the fact that Israel expelled Palestinians from their homes, murdered them, suffocated them, and made their lives miserable.

    And this is the same thing that was done to the native people of the modern day Americas.

    ParsnipWitch ,

    This is an honest question, is Wikipedia just wrong on that? Because there they write that Palestine also expelled all Jews and that they moved to Israel for that reason (because they weren’t allowed in Palestine). And also they write that Hamas specifically want all Jews to be gone.

    If Wikipedia is wrong, where do you get your information from?

    TheSanSabaSongbird ,

    Wikipedia is kind of wrong in the sense that there’s always been Palestinian Jews.

    The issue is that due to Zionism, a ton of European Jews moved into the region starting at the turn of the last century and accelerating following the Holocaust.

    Said Jews then set about building a thriving western-style industrialized democracy that was opposed at every turn by an Arab and Islamic population that opposed its very existence on what can only be thought of as religious grounds.

    All of which can only be taken as an indication of how deeply corrupting and counter-progressive are virtually all forms of institutionalized organized religion.

    Fuck all of them. Organized religion sucks ass and should rightly be seen as a vestige of the past.

    Mr_Blott ,

    deleted_by_author

  • Loading...
  • cyclohexane ,

    What country are you in?

    The US has a large Jewish population by number.

    cyclohexane ,

    Said Jews then set about building a thriving western-style industrialized democracy that was opposed at every turn by an Arab and Islamic population that opposed its very existence

    I am pretty sure that they were concerned about being expelled from their homes and massacred, and not because they hated “thriving industrialized democracy”.

    cyclohexane ,

    Please feel free to ask any questions! I am happy to answer them all

    Can you please cite which part of Wikipedia is saying this?

    “Palestine” and “Israel” are two names for the same region, so it doesn’t make sense to be expelled from one into the other. I think there must be a misunderstanding here.

    I bet this is referring to certain Arab States expelling Jews during the creation of Israel and the British occupation of Palestine, as a retaliation (which was horrible and stupid and I fully condemn it). But keep in mind this is well into the conflict, when Zionists and British occupation were already well into committing heinous acts and massacres, and that this is Arab States who sympathized with Palestine, not Palestine itself.

    What I was referring to was treatment of Jews in Palestine before the Zionist project.

    As for Hamas’ anti-semitism, I think some background information is important here.

    When it was founded, Hamas was not a popular group by any means. Popular Palestinian resistance groups at the time were socialist and progressive, such as the PFLP and other members of the PLO. Hamas was founded as a Muslim brotherhood affiliate, and its charter had many anti Semitic references.

    Israel saw this as a huge opportunity, and it propped up Hamas while fighting off other groups. Fast forward to the 2000’s, every Palestinian resistance group was left defeated, and Hamas was left as the only group left fighting. Palestinians had no choice but to support Hamas.

    This was a major change for Hamas. It saw hoardes of Palestinians join its ranks, and most were not ideologically aligned with them. There are even Christians fighting among its ranks. This caused an ideological shift within Hamas. It was even reflected in its new charter in 2017, which dropped anti-semitic rhetoric and said it is fighting against Israel, not because of its religion, but because of the Zionist occupation. You can find this charter translated online easily.

    Since then, many Hamas officials reiterated their position that they are not fighting to expel Jews, but against Zionist occupation.

    Palestinians today see Hamas as a vehicle for their liberation, and not as an ideological alignment. But even then, most of the people in Hamas do not hold anti Semitic opinions anymore, and we should keep in mind this major shift throughout its history.

    cantstopthesignal ,

    When I fuck my wife I always come first! And that’s exactly what I tell her.

    ThatFembyWho ,

    Didn’t Arabs and Palestinians just flat out refuse to coexist with a Jewish state from the start? The international community proposed a solution and they refused to accept it.

    Certainly if they chose to fight, and lost, then they have to face the consequences which might include losing their land.

    That’s hardy unprecedented, the very city I live in was largely founded by seizing lands from the British during the American war of independence, because they lost…

    I would say while yes it’s “wrong” to kick someone off their land, both parties have to at least be reasonable and willing to compromise when you have a complex ethnic and religious issue. Otherwise conflict is inevitable.

    None of which is to excuse any war crimes committed by either side. I just think it’s more nuanced than “israel bad apartheid state”.

    cyclohexane ,

    Didn’t Arabs and Palestinians just flat out refuse to coexist with a Jewish state from the start?

    “coexist with a Jewish state” is a bit of a contradictory statement. Arabs coexisted with Jews fine prior to the Zionist project. A Jewish state is by definition a state exclusive to Jews. That’s the opposite of coexistnece by definition, and yes that is exactly why Arabs (Muslims and Christians alike) refused it.

    Certainly if they chose to fight,

    Resist*. they chose to resist occupation, expulsion from their homes, massacre and genocide.

    fight, and lost, then they have to face the consequences which might include losing their land.

    Ahh, so if someone fights you for your land, destroys your home and genocides your people, then they’ve earned it?? Well I should not be surprised that someone who lives in a nation founded on genocide thinks this is okay.

    yes it’s “wrong” to kick someone off their land, both parties have to at least be reasonable and willing to compromise

    “hey man, I know I just took over your home and burned your family alive in front of your eyes. But you gotta be reasonable here and be willing to compromise!”

    What more of a compromise do you need beyond coexistence? That’s all Palestinians have asked for, and Israel continues to deny them basic rights, no matter how peaceful they are.

    And I end with: Israel bad apartheid state. It is truly that simple.

    Basuliic ,

    But there are Arabs even in military right now so you are wrong, learn first then judge.

    cyclohexane ,

    Wrong about what exactly? What does having Arabs in the military prove (or disprove)?

    Basuliic ,

    Jewish state is by definition a state exclusive to Jews. That’s the opposite of coexistnece by definition, and yes that is exactly why Arabs (Muslims and Christians alike) refused it.

    cyclohexane ,

    How does the presence of Arabs in Israel’s war machine disprove that? You didn’t answer this question.

    There were Jews who fought in the Nazis ranks. Based on your ridiculous logic, the Nazis are inclusive of the Jews (obviously incorrect because your logic is flawed).

    There were black people fighting in the US armies as well, even during Jim Crow era.

    Basuliic ,

    Lol. You delirious and don’t know a thing, defending Palestinians who genocided jews for centuries and claim the land they drenched in blood as their. Even now normal Muslims live in Israel, but those monkeys don’t want to coexist and only want to kill. Ask 1.7 million Muslims (18.1% of population) what they think about those terrorists.

    Look at last statements from their leaders, look at state of people in Gaza that had millions of dollars gifted by UN. Fuck them and their rockets.

    Oh, and you for flying on wings of russian terroristsic propaganda.

    cyclohexane ,

    Palestinians who genocided jews for centuries

    Source? Highly doubt

    Even now normal Muslims live in Israel

    Treated as second class citizens, stripped of their rights, and brutalized daily

    but those monkeys [Muslims who live in Israel] don’t want to coexist and only want to kill

    Source? Highly doubt

    Also, calling Muslims or another group “Monkeys” is not allowed in this community. I am warning you. Next time will be a ban.

    Look at last statements from their leaders

    I have. Nothing strikes me as a fraction of the concern that Israeli statements are.

    look at state of people in Gaza

    After Israel has been bombarding them, burning them alive, and cutting off essential resources for decades? Man, I wonder why they’re suffering.

    ThatFembyWho ,

    Ahh, so if someone fights you for your land, destroys your home and genocides your people, then they’ve earned it?? Well I should not be surprised that someone who lives in a nation founded on genocide thinks this is okay.

    Nice try putting words in my mouth, but I never said any of this was “OK”. It doesn’t have my “blessing”, I merely gave my observation grounded in reality, of how the world works. Hell no, if it was up to me, everything everywhere would be resolved peacefully, fairly and with diplomacy, not violence.

    Honestly given your tone and snide remarks, I suspect you are too emotionally invested on this topic, for whatever reason, to have a rational discussion.

    But either way, the ability to occupy and defend land will remain the determining factor in maintaining sovereignty, now and in the future. You can’t count on the international community, and you can’t count on what’s right or just. ( call me a pessimist, I’ll agree :)

    halfempty , in Its happening
    @halfempty@kbin.social avatar

    I saw today that they have found that over 80% of the microplastics in the ocean are from automobile tires.

    Siegfried ,

    Fuck cars

    rockerface ,

    Clearly, someone already did, hence the microplastics in a fetus

    agentshags ,
    @agentshags@sh.itjust.works avatar

    I’ll get the dragons

    Maldreamer ,

    Cursed

    dojan , in privatization of water....
    @dojan@lemmy.world avatar

    Didn’t they kill babies too?

    HowShouldIKnow ,

    They also said “Chocolate without slavery? That’s unpossible!”

    Gradually_Adjusting ,
    @Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world avatar

    The crimes against humanity are what make it so tasty!

    Well, that and the heaps of refined sugar.

    HiddenLayer5 , (edited )

    That’s every large chocolate company though. Nestle just said the quiet part out loud. Even the ones that promise to use “ethical chocolate” are either unverifiable in their claims to begin with and/or have been exposed to be outright lying.

    themeatbridge ,

    There are smaller chocolate brands that do have verifiably ethical chocolate. The big companies do everything they can to crush those chocolatiers specifically. Often they do this by spreading rumors about how ethical chocolate is unverifiable or a lie.

    It is tough, because there are so many intermediaries in the business, but it would actually be much easier for the larger corps because they have more resources and better leverage. There are also companies that just lie for profit.

    Nestle could, with minimal effort, insist on a functional chain of provenance, and could easily fund all of the enforcement and verification efforts with money that fits into rounding errors on their balance sheet. They won’t, because that helps every chocolate producer avoid supporting slave labor, and eventually it would go away. They want the waters muddy so they can continue to abuse children living in impoverished conditions for profit, while saying “yes, but nobody can verify their chocolate isn’t prepared by child slave laborers.”

    Carighan ,
    @Carighan@lemmy.world avatar

    Yeah, or well, in theory their formula works, but given the realities of developing countries they knew they were killing babies when they introduced it there.

    Didn’t matter, made profits, line went up.

    Glifted ,
    Haziiieeeeeee ,

    My comment was going to be. For poisoning a bunch of African children.

    sbv , in Just a tiny bit spicy

    MAKE HIM REGRET

    Bearbi3 ,

    BEING BORN

    davel ,
    @davel@lemmy.ml avatar
    Facebones ,

    Spec Prep

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