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Lemmy.ml tankie censorship problem

I feel like we need to talk about Lemmy’s massive tankie censorship problem. A lot of popular lemmy communities are hosted on lemmy.ml. It’s been well known for a while that the admins/mods of that instance have, let’s say, rather extremist and onesided political views. In short, they’re what’s colloquially referred to as tankies. This wouldn’t be much of an issue if they didn’t regularly abuse their admin/mod status to censor and silence people who dissent with their political beliefs and for example, post things critical of China, Russia, the USSR, socialism, …

As an example, there was a thread today about the anniversary of the Tiananmen Massacre. When I was reading it, there were mostly posts critical of China in the thread and some whataboutist/denialist replies critical of the USA and the west. In terms of votes, the posts critical of China were definitely getting the most support.

I posted a comment in this thread linking to “archive.ph/2020.07.12-074312/https://…/AIIbbPs” (WARNING: graphical content), which describes aspects of the atrocities that aren’t widely known even in the West, and supporting evidence. My comment was promptly removed for violating the “Be nice and civil” rule. When I looked back at the thread, I noticed that all posts critical of China had been removed while the whataboutist and denialist comments were left in place.

This is what the modlog of the instance looks like:

https://feddit.nl/pictrs/image/6886b092-43d3-408b-ab57-2fa686f8a6c7.png

Definitely a trend there wouldn’t you say?

When I called them out on their one sided censorship, with a screenshot of the modlog above, I promptly received a community ban on all communities on lemmy.ml that I had ever participated in.

Proof:

https://feddit.nl/pictrs/image/9c52e470-645f-46ba-ac1d-0b7d8be17af3.png

So many of you will now probably think something like: “So what, it’s the fediverse, you can use another instance.”

The problem with this reasoning is that many of the popular communities are actually on lemmy.ml, and they’re not so easy to replace. I mean, in terms of content and engagement lemmy is already a pretty small place as it is. So it’s rather pointless sitting for example in /c/[email protected] where there’s nobody to discuss anything with.

I’m not sure if there’s a solution here, but I’d like to urge people to avoid lemmy.ml hosted communities in favor of communities on more reasonable instances.

ptz , (edited )
@ptz@dubvee.org avatar

I’m not sure if there’s a solution here, but I’d like to urge people to avoid lemmy.ml hosted communities in favor of communities on more reasonable instances.

Did that months ago; defederated completely when they turned into Lemmygrad-lite. At first I missed some more active FOSS communities, but since then, others on different instances have become more active. programming.dev has a lot of communities that overlap with some of the bigger FOSS ones on .ml so maybe check out what they’ve got.

If there’s a community that only exists there, be the change you want to see: create it somewhere else, nurture it, and give it time to grow. You’re not the only one making this complaint about .ml, and you probably won’t be the last.

Related: I genuinely feel that ml being the official or at least de-facto flagship instance is turning people away.

Edit: Oh yeah. Didn’t recognize your username at first, but I was looking at the modlog the other day from my LW account, and saw a bunch of individual community bans from Dessalines and wondered what was up. Figured it was something exactly like this, and it was. Thanks for sharing.

Blaze ,
@Blaze@reddthat.com avatar

If there’s a community that only exists there, be the change you want to see: create it somewhere else and give it time to grow. You’re not the only one making this complaint about .ml, and you probably wont’ be the last.

Maybe we should open a thread on !fedigrow about this

ptz ,
@ptz@dubvee.org avatar

TIL that community existed. thanks!

Blaze ,
@Blaze@reddthat.com avatar

What? I thought I pinged you there a while ago! Anyway, have a look, there should be some topics you might find interesting

ptz ,
@ptz@dubvee.org avatar

May have been my LW account? I mostly use it for my mod role, but I’ll switch to it sometimes and browse all there to look for new communities I might like. Perhaps it was that account and I only interacted from there? (My memory is terrible these days 😆)

Blaze ,
@Blaze@reddthat.com avatar

I don’t remember, you’ll see a post with a lot of pings, one of your accounts should be there 😄

ptz ,
@ptz@dubvee.org avatar

Did you ping in the post body or comments? I learned a month or two ago from someone that mentions only generate a notification if they’re in the comments.

Blaze ,
@Blaze@reddthat.com avatar

I made sure to ping in the comment for this reason. Actually now I’m curious, let me have a look

ptz ,
@ptz@dubvee.org avatar

I got the one you just sent, but it was after I had resolved the community locally (and subscribed). Perhaps the mentions don’t work if they’re to a community the other person’s instance doesn’t know about?

Blaze ,
@Blaze@reddthat.com avatar

To be honest I might have forgotten to ping you actually (maybe because you were less active for a bit and I basically mentioned people when I saw their posts in All?) but at least now it is solved!

victorz ,

programming.dev has a lot of communities

Is there a way to search for/browse communities on a single instance?

ptz ,
@ptz@dubvee.org avatar

You can in Tesseract, but AFAIK, that’s the only UI that lets you browse remote instances. Otherwise, you gotta go to it directly, browse communities, and copy/paste the URL into your instance and search for it.

boredtortoise , (edited )

Is it possible to see who is behind a mod action? I’ve figured something like world news on ml has some compromised fascist actors as mods but if it’s the main creator doing this then that’s crazy

ptz ,
@ptz@dubvee.org avatar

There’s an instance level setting to hide moderator names from unauthenticated and/or non-mod users. They probably have that enabled. Those actions federate, though, so the mod names won’t be hidden if viewed from an instance that doesn’t hide the mod names.

TropicalDingdong ,

Happy cakeday.

ptz ,
@ptz@dubvee.org avatar

Shit, so it is (depending on tiemzone) lol Thanks!

SorteKanin ,
@SorteKanin@feddit.dk avatar

It is actually tomorrow but there’s a bug that causes the cake symbol to appear a day early in the default UI, because 2024 is a leap year.

ptz ,
@ptz@dubvee.org avatar

Ah, gotcha. Without doing the math, I assumed it was basing it on UTC or something.

imaqtpie ,
@imaqtpie@sh.itjust.works avatar

Haha thank you for the info, I have been quite confused about this. At first I thought it was because it was already tomorrow in Australia, but then I checked a world clock and it wasn’t even close 😅

PugJesus ,

Related: I genuinely feel that ml being the official or at least de-facto flagship instance is turning people away.

I had actually considered Lemmy before The Great Reddit Exodus. Lemmy.ml turned me off from that.

Now we have Kbin (you can make it, my love!) and Lemmy.world, and I feel much better.

atocci ,

Kbin, please come back to me

OpenStars ,
@OpenStars@discuss.online avatar

I… don’t think Kbin.social is going to make it. Even if it comes back, too much trust has been lost. Ernst should have stuck to just working on his coding project, not also administering his own instance, b/c that carries with it a certain level of “always-on” responsibility - e.g. I have unfortunately had to block Kbin.social lately, b/c nearly all (>>99%) of the spam that I currently see on the Fediverse was coming from the communities on it. Since I blocked it, I think I’ve seen like 1 single spam post for the past month.

So Kbin.social is turning people away too, for different reasons.

Mbin seems healthy though?:-)

cloudless ,

I want to use Mbin, but all Mbin instances are federated with tankie instances, including hexbear.

And Mbin doesn’t make it easy to see user/community instance.

OpenStars ,
@OpenStars@discuss.online avatar

I gave up on the Kbin/Mbin style entirely - it sounds nice to Federate with both Lemmy and Mastodon, but I don’t like the interface.

Can you not do personal user instance blocks like you can in Lemmy as of v0.19.3 half a year ago? That would be an absolute deal breaker for me too. On Kbin.social though it was not an issue bc they were defederated at the instance level.

BarbecueCowboy ,

I really want Kbin to succeed, but Ernest seems to see the project as something he checks on once every few months and then ignores, but he still seems to want to be the only one who gets to make decisions. I get that he has stuff going on in his life, but the solution to all these problem starts with communicating and working with the community, not disappearing for months at a time and refusing to work with the people who try to help him. You just can’t have a successful project with an approach like that.

Nothing4You ,

It should be noted that the (visibility of) community bans are a result of better enforcement of site bans in 0.19.4, which for now is implemented by sending out community bans for local communities when a user gets instance banned: github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/pull/4464

Prior to this, when a user got instance banned from .ml, they were also implicitly banned from .ml communities, but this was only known to the instance they were banned on. As a result, users were still able to post, comment, and vote on those communities, but it would be visible only on that user’s instance, not federated anywhere else. Visibility of this ban was exclusively on the banning instance’s modlog.

fyi @SpaceCadet

kbal ,
@kbal@fedia.io avatar

Rule 1: Crushing people with tanks is fine so long as it's our side doing it.

Literal fucking tankies. I wonder if they will ever come to their senses. Oh well, it's not as if there aren't Nazi instances somewhere on fedi as well.

themoonisacheese ,
@themoonisacheese@sh.itjust.works avatar

A hexbear in that thread is literally claiming that “the soldiers did everything they could to avoid hurting him” when there’s a photo of him lying dead on the street after the tanks have gone through. They don’t think it’s fine, they’re saying it didn’t happen (curious)

bdonvr ,

Of tank man? The guy in the famous photo?

Where’s the picture of this? I’ve never heard that before. It doesn’t appear in his Wikipedia page, it just says there nobody knows what happened to him after.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_Man

dual_sport_dork ,
@dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world avatar

Was it actually him? I was under the impression that history did not relate what happened to him afterwards, nor who he was. That’s not to say the CCP did not murder a couple of thousand people during the crackdown regardless, because they did, but I have never seen a verifiable claim that a picture of any particular corpse actually was the Tank Man. There are numerous theories I’ve seen floated over the years alleging what may have happened to him afterwards ranging from him being caught and imprisoned, executed, living anonymously in China, or fleeing to Taiwan. All of them are unverified and, of course, mutually exclusive.

The tank operators absolutely did attempt to (and succeeded at) avoid running him over. That much is plainly visible in the video. Whatever happened after the video ended is undocumented and pure conjecture. Plenty of well documented atrocities actually were committed that day, before and after that moment, so there’s not much sense in inventing new ones and bickering over details we haven’t actually got.

Microw ,

That photo (I’ve seen it circulate on the internet myself) is a photoshop. Every reputable source says that no one knows what happened to that man, and we have no evidence whatsoever of him getting run over.

cupcakezealot ,
@cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

A hexbear in that thread is literally claiming that “the soldiers did everything they could to avoid hurting him”

ah the trolly problem defence

qaz ,
gravitas_deficiency ,

Inaccurate - the tankie pulling the switch would be smiling

Klear ,

And there would be more people on the track.

feedum_sneedson ,

He is bundled off to the left by other protestors, nobody knows what happened to him, there is no photo of him dead.

sudo ,

This loony bullshit is why tankies go full useful idiot and parrot shit most of them know isn’t true. The right-wing disinfo about Tianamen square - or any other communist atrocity - is so widespread. Tankies think that the most ultra counter-narrative will somehow combat that even if its just as loony.

Kaboom ,

Imo, when tankies get that bad, they might as well be nazis.

Microw ,

Crushing people with tanks

Just a heads up, while it is established that the CCCP killed tons of people on that day, the idea that people were crushed with tanks is disputed in academia and mostly considered inaccurate news reporting.

The famous “tank man” photo shows a guy standing in front of a tank in order to prevent them from moving tanks to another part where the protesters had gone. We have no evidence that he was driven over by that tank.

retrospectology , (edited )
@retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

Those “academics” are wrong.

We know this because there are photos of bodies and bicycles smeared into a paste [Source. Warning Blood/Gore].

And because people who were there literally said that’s what happened:

"The shooting was going on and people were still running to try and block the tanks, which were travelling at high speed, some positioning buses in the road. But the tanks crushed the buses and people, they didn’t care. People’s bodies were merged, moulded to their bicycles. They were flat.” [Source: Shao Jiang to The Mirror]

The CCP has desperately tried to cleanse the most brutal images and interviews of the massacre from the Internet, but even 30 years on they can’t completely scrub it clean. There’s a reason The Pillar of Shame monument is designed as it is.

justgohomealready ,

the idea that people were crushed with tanks is disputed in academia

There are photos of people clearly crushed by tanks?

vorpuni ,
@vorpuni@jlai.lu avatar

No but the red paste is most likely explained by the tanks that were verifiably there. They could have crushed people with other machinery but they had tanks.

aleph ,
@aleph@lemm.ee avatar

I’ve defended lemmy.ml in the past when people have blamed the entire instance for the actions of a solitary, overzealous moderator, but this genuinely concerns me:

https://feddit.nl/pictrs/image/9c52e470-645f-46ba-ac1d-0b7d8be17af3.png

This must have been action taken at the instance admin level, considering all those communities have different moderators.

Is there any way to probe the modlog to see which account it was?

FaceDeer ,
@FaceDeer@fedia.io avatar

I would imagine that if an admin is doing this the modlog could simply be faked, you wouldn't be able to trust anything that the instance is reporting to the outside world.

goferking0 , (edited )

Why, so you can censor some more posts critical of China?

The modlog of this sub is absolutely ridiculous:

Guessing that was the comment they made to trigger it. Seems perfectly reasonable after starting off just attacking them

Dude literally started it by doing comment in their mod request post

feddit.nl/comment/10140068

NOT_RICK ,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

The criticism is warranted. They don’t even equally apply their own rules depending on context

goferking0 ,

They’re doing it specifically to piss off the mods. That’s the context. It was the pinned mod request for it

feddit.nl/comment/10140068

uhN0id ,

Perfectly reasonable to ban someone from completely unrelated communities like mechanical keyboard and arch Linux? Come on. It’s not like they’re throwing out toxic terms or criticizing on a personal level. They’re questioning the way things are being modded. Those aren’t even attacks.

sudneo ,

They banned from the instance. Apparently the fact that you get banned from hosted communities is just a new feature.

aleph , (edited )
@aleph@lemm.ee avatar

I think you have a very different definition of “perfectly reasonable” than most people.

ptz , (edited )
@ptz@dubvee.org avatar

I can’t see those, specifically, but a similar pattern of mass community bans after even remotely criticizing an authoritarian regime is completely on brand for Dessalines.

https://tesseract.dubvee.org/image_proxy/dubvee.org/pictrs/image/4b1d3476-a36a-4f1c-ba8b-1748c3a7af18.webp?fallback=true

I don’t have record of the comment that triggered these, but when it’s something like civility, it’s usually just a comment removal and maybe a single community ban.

More of Dessalines getting his stanky tankie tightie-whities in a bunch

Dessalines bans people

Socsa ,

Imagine that - a white dude who appropriates the moniker of an actual slave revolutionary as a symbol for his “cause” might be cringe and unhinged.

urska , (edited )

Really stupid. Dont forget the Che hated homosexuals as well and he wrote a letter to one of his family members saying he found a meaning for his life “Killing people”

SatansMaggotyCumFart ,
sudneo ,

See lemmy.world/comment/10467647

It seems this is just a new feature in the upcoming relase (the communities ban).

ptz ,
@ptz@dubvee.org avatar

Interesting.

Still, site bans for criticizing China is just as bad, if not worse as mass community banning.

sudneo ,

Yes, but that fact is well known and at least this shows there was no particular intention to chastise the user - it was just a button press.

Socsa ,

This is actually more evidence that the Lemmy devs run a modified version of the code which gives them the ability to, eg do things like dole out mass community bans. There is also some evidence that they selectively federate the mod log as well. It all points to the obvious conclusion that these people can and will abuse their power in any way they can.

WanderingVentra ,

I’m pretty sure any admin could do that with their Lemmy server, couldn’t they?

PrettyFlyForAFatGuy ,

Yes, an admin probably has access to community level moderation rights and the lemmy API is not difficult to figure out.

It would be trivial to come up with a script to go through the community page, get all the current communities and iterate through them banning a user in each of them.

vorpuni ,
@vorpuni@jlai.lu avatar

I have had comments removed and could never see why. Now I just block their instances.

They roleplay as communist censors since that’s all they can afford to do from their positions.

Eldritch ,

Gonna put this out there. Ended up in a thread on ML the other day. The poster/admin got a little unhinged, over 4 down votes. 4. Took to the admin panel to see who dared down vote him. Convinced he had been the victim of the tiniest not swarm ever.

1000001794

It’s troubling behavior for anyone with power.

Pili ,

You gotta admit, it’s very suspicious to be massively downvoted (25, not 4) over an inconspicuous comment that merely highlights a few paragraphs of the linked article.

I know I would also be wondering if there was a pattern in the origin of those downvotes.

ptz ,
@ptz@dubvee.org avatar

Lol, is that why they removed scores from the API? 😆

Hubi ,
@Hubi@lemmy.world avatar

Downvotes are public on Lemmy fyi. There are interfaces that show who voted on a post or comment.

Eldritch ,

For admins, yes. I was pointing that out in the picture of the responses I posted. But not for General users.

Hubi , (edited )
@Hubi@lemmy.world avatar

Even regular users can see them through other federated services like kbin AFAIK. They show up under likes and dislikes.

Speculater ,
@Speculater@lemmy.world avatar

They specifically obfuscate which mods take what actions so you can’t appeal or even defend.

sudneo ,

Tbh, also harass a mod. People get quite worked out when being moderated, and being a mod is enough work without people chasing you to argue with you or straight up harass you, I suppose. At least, I can see plenty of good reasons to hide the moderator name.

Speculater ,
@Speculater@lemmy.world avatar

Then have a mod box or something. What they currently do is, “Post removed. Reason. Rule 1.”

No details, no appeal, nada.

sudneo ,

What does this have to do with showing mod log? Genuinely confused

Speculater ,
@Speculater@lemmy.world avatar

If they act on a post or comment, there’s no way to ask why or see what their actual reasoning was. So it allows blanket censorship without a paper trail.

sudneo ,

It does, but it’s an online forum, not an essential service, and easy to replace. On the other hand, being there with your name or nickname exposes you to harassment from those pissed at you for your decision.

I would say it’s an acceptable evil given the circumstances.

As a side note: asking why after a mod action is almost universally pointless. Moderating is free work and a level of subjectivity is implied. I think not having the ability to argue is infuriating but understandable.

vorpuni ,
@vorpuni@jlai.lu avatar

My experience with them is you can’t even find the modlog if you look when they remove comments. I guess they don’t federate it and/or it only shows if you’re logged in?

Good incentives to block their instances.

kuato ,

Only admins can do site bans. What you’re seeing is a hacky/temporary feature of the upcoming Lemmy v19.4, of which lemmy.ml is running the pre-release: when an admin bans someone from the site (temp or otherwise), it also automatically bans them from any community they have ever participated in. Lemmy.ml has always been the “beta” instance for new releases.

aleph , (edited )
@aleph@lemm.ee avatar

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks for the heads up.

Socsa , (edited )

People are naive if they think the .ml admins and devs don’t intend to keep their thumb on the Lemmy scale. More instances need to take this threat seriously and defederate from .ml, and possibly even fork the Lemmy repos for when the devs inevitably decide they want to start building quiet exploits into the code. There are serious cyber security implications here that people are sleeping on

Skepticpunk ,

Yep. Something needs to change if we want Lemmy to be something besides a place for Soviet simps to hide from criticism. Authoritarianism cannot be tolerated.

lltnskyc ,

Authoritarianism cannot be tolerated.

Except when it suits your agenda, in that case it’s not only tolerated, but actually encouraged! :)

Skepticpunk ,

I’m so bored of that line. At least come up with something different.

lltnskyc ,

You’re bored of people pointing out your hypocrisy?
But it’s not surprising, you’re not supposed to be entertained by it, you’re supposed to think about it…

Skepticpunk ,

What is there to think about? I complain about people who support Soviet-style dictatorships having full control over online platforms moderating exactly as one would expect, and I get told by Random Guy On The Internet ,452 that I’m apparently a hypocrite because wanting action to be taken to stop authoritarians from controlling social networks makes me the real authoritarian or something. All this to “suit my agenda”, which in this case is wanting to be able to say that authoritarians are bad.

God forbid I find arguments like that incoherent and unworthy of taking seriously.

lltnskyc ,

I’m apparently a hypocrite because wanting action to be taken to stop authoritarians from controlling social networks makes me the real authoritarian or something

No, you’re a hypocrite because you see “them” censoring “you” and you scream “censure, you can’t do that!!”, but when it’s “your” side is censuring “them”, then you have no complaints, because obviously “your” censure is good, and their is “bad”.

Or maybe I’m wrong and you’re against censure in general? :)

sudneo ,

I complain about people who support Soviet-style dictatorships having full control over online platforms moderating exactly as one would expect

I will ask in good faith: given that those people started the whole project to have that space, but built it using federated technologies which allow others to run their places, what is exactly the basis for your complaint? As absurd as they might be, instances can decide their own moderation policies, whether you or I agree with them or not. Given the fundamentally distributed nature of this platform, there is no such thing as “having full control”, and instead we can choose instances based on our preferences, so we are free to not subject ourselves to those policies, they are free to do, and both a free to use the platform in the way we use. The code is open, there are plenty of other instances. What exactly is the complaint here?

rah ,

if we want Lemmy to be something besides a place for Soviet simps to hide from criticism

There is definitely a place for Soviet simps in the Fediverse, it’s just in a corner all by itself. That’s the beauty of the Fediverse.

Oisteink ,

It’s also a great place for AI training as you have total access to data you federate to your instance. Or for Cambridge-Analytica to track tankies

sudneo ,

There are serious cyber security implications here that people are sleeping on

No, there are not.

At most, if they decide to kill the project by adding malicious code they can affect Lemmy itself. 99% of users don’t run Lemmy (which is where the “quiet exploits” would run), and the frontend simply doesn’t allow you to have a serious impact, unless you think they will stumble upon a browser 0-day and they decide to burn it by committing the exploit to an open source repo instead of selling it for millions (or use it elsewhere).

What’s with the fearmongering? Their stance is crystal clear since ever.

possibly even fork the Lemmy repos

Right, and who maintains the fork? Who, among the large population of external contributor, I mean?

muntedcrocodile ,

What do u mean their arnt any security issues here. Ive played enough 2b2t to know a backdoor makes u a literal fucking god. If u own all the servers u have everyone’s ip, u can control everyone’s interaction. U can can literally 1984 the entire federated history. Do u not see the issue here they could take control of your account post cp then report ur ip and get u locked up for long time.

sudneo ,

I am a security engineer by profession, so I do have at least a decent understanding of what I am talking about. Every server in this case has that potential. There is nothing preventing any admin from patching code and manipulating the network after TLS termination (I.e., changing payloads of POST requests etc.). That said, not even in a videogame you would be “locked up” by someone posting CP on your behalf like that. This is simply not a threat and if you think it is, then you should be worried about every website you visit.

wahming ,

I’ve been banned from .ml for being a ‘racist’ for being anti-Xi, despite the fact that I am Chinese, and pointed out my ethnicity as such in the discussion. I guess antisemitic Jews aren’t the only weird accusation getting thrown about nowadays.

givesomefucks ,

I got a ban for pointing out the nuclear strikes on Japan killed less than the conventional firebombing runs leading up to it, and if nukes wouldn’t have been used a shit ton more people would have died.

Like, no opinion on if what was morally right or not, just what the numbers worked out.

It’s all trolls over there, when a rational person makes a community, the admins start drama there and troll the mods till they leave or get kicked out for stupid shit.

I just blocked the whole instance. I never see any of their posts now, and as an unintended bonus I don’t even get notifications when their users reply to my comments.

Like, it would be best if we defederated from them and that hilariouschaos troll instance.

But I can just block them, works the same.

Hacksaw ,

More people were killed in the firebombing.

The theory that more people would have died of the nukes weren’t dropped is FAR from settled fact. The Japanese were already looking to surrender and it’s not likely the bomb played a big part in that decision.

en.wikipedia.org/…/Debate_over_the_atomic_bombing…

Regardless it’s nothing to get banned over, that’s for sure.

Excrubulent , (edited )
@Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

Whether that alone is something to be banned over is probably context dependent, and I don’t have any faith that that instance had a good reason for it. Nevertheless that person holding up their great take about the nuclear bombs being good actually does not paint a great picture of them as a person. It makes them look like a reactionary US nationalist who wants to believe anything that makes their side the “good guys”. They can pretend it was morally neutral all they want, but morality is the only reason anybody argues something like that because it’s so nebulous the only way you get there is with motivated reasoning.

At any rate I wouldn’t put that on the pile of reasons to hate on the .ml instances, not when there are so many good reasons.

Excrubulent ,
@Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

I honestly disagree that blocking works the same. Social media relies on a network effect, and if they keep being allowed to operate popular communities then they will have that network effect in their favour, and new users that don’t know any better will keep joining.

Defederation is an important tool to turn certain instances into pariahs for bad behaviour, and individual blocks don’t achieve that.

Cryophilia ,

This is a lot of the problem with gen z, especially among the left. Everyone is quick to smash the block button, which in aggregate just makes everything worse for everyone else.

intensely_human ,

Explain?

Cryophilia ,

When you block someone you cede the conversation to them. When lots of people block someone, fewer people push back against their bullshit. Because the people most able to push back against it no longer see it.

intensely_human ,

So you make them invisible to yourself, but not to others.

Excrubulent ,
@Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

It’s not a generational problem, it’s a platform problem. It’s a disempowered person problem. Generations are mostly made up anyway.

Hitting the block button is fine to deal with harrassment, it just doesn’t solve the wider issue.

Cryophilia ,

I think zoomers are far more prone to refusing to engage with things that make them uncomfortable than previous generations.

And just because something isn’t clear cut doesn’t make it imaginary. It’s a useful but fuzzy categorization.

Excrubulent ,
@Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

Well I’d be fascinated to see how you arrive at that conclusion but until then I’m going to have to disagree on the basic principle that the generalisations people make about generations are usually pretty useless.

Cryophilia ,

If you truly don’t see any difference between Boomers, Gen X, and Millenials then I think our views of reality are so wildly different we might not be able to have any sort of communication.

Excrubulent ,
@Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

Okay, but you brought it up and then when asked about it instead of explaining you fell back on the idea that it’s self-evident, which I think I’m right to not be convinced by.

To the extent the generations appear different I think is easily explained by the difference in material conditions that each has grown up within and the necessarily different ages of each group at any given time, and nothing to do with the inate characters of the people involved.

I see zoomers intensely involved in the issues that affect the world and any extent they feel the need to check out I think is 100% valid given the bleak world they have been born into, much bleaker than at any earlier time.

I see a hard-nosed pragmatic awareness of the need for hope in the face of our grim reality because it is the only way we can find a path through. I have heard that message from people of all ages, but also from zoomers.

Again, I don’t think there’s much difference and one thing that absolutely hasn’t changed over millenia is bemoaning the state of the “kids these days”.

Cryophilia ,

To the extent the generations appear different I think is easily explained by the difference in material conditions that each has grown up within and the necessarily different ages of each group at any given time, and nothing to do with the inate characters of the people involved.

Well, I mean…yeah. Of course. I don’t think anyone is saying there’s like a BIOLOGICAL difference between generations.

much bleaker than at any earlier time.

I do disagree with this. In my lifetime, the great recession was much much worse than now.

Excrubulent , (edited )
@Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

You fell back from the motte to the bailey then went ham on a strawman because the actual argument was getting too much for you.

You accused Gen Z of some specific behaviour and when I asked you about it you fell back on some vague notion of the generations simply being different.

You were clearly implying some difference of character, but when I point out that that’s pretty weak you pretend I was talking about biology, which I never mentioned.

If you think Gen Z is more likely to block, check out, whatever, explain where you get it from. If you’re not going to do that then I will just continue to believe that you’re basing it on your own biases and move on. You clearly aren’t very disciplined about your thought processes.

Oh but you had it worse as a kid? Also something we’ve been hearing for millenia from intellectually lazy entitled assholes.

Cryophilia ,

You accused Gen Z of some specific behaviour and when I asked you about it you fell back on some vague notion of the generations simply being different.

Generations being different means they have…different behavior. Wtf are you even talking about?

You were clearly implying some difference of character

People’s actions are their character. That’s a distinction without a difference.

If you think Gen Z is more likely to block, check out, whatever, explain where you get it from.

My personal observations, which is different than bias.

Oh but you had it worse as a kid? Also something we’ve been hearing for millenia from intellectually lazy entitled assholes.

Millenials objectively had it worse as a kid, at least economically which is what I was referring to. Not my fault you have recency bias.

Excrubulent ,
@Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

Okay, so whatever your bizarre non-claim is it’s just an opinion? Cool, opinion rejected.

Now, millenials objectively had it worse? Okay, fucking prove it. Since that’s not an opinion I’m sure I won’t just get another rhetorical runaround.

Cryophilia ,

Comment rejected, would you like to try a new comment?

Excrubulent ,
@Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

Okay, that’s not how this works, but you seem to be incapable of following the most basic line of reasoning. This wasn’t you defending an argument, it was you mentally shitting the bed. I think I’m done here. Have a great life. Or I guess have a shitty life, since your generation has it objectively worse than everyone else.

Cryophilia ,

Comment rejected. Would you like to try another comment?

sudneo ,

Like, no opinion on if what was morally right or not, just what the numbers worked out.

I don’t want to get in the merit of the comment, but unless you see the future, this statement is simply not true. Your argument is simply based on accepting certain assumptions as true.

Coincidentally this argument is routinely used by people supporting american atrocities, who consider nuking hundreds of thousands of people the humanitarian solution to WWII.

To be clear, I don’t agree with that line of moderation, I don’t agree with most of the views that seem to characterize .ml, but it’s a year that people make posts like this one, you can’t tell me you don’t understand the ban based on the above.

givesomefucks ,

I suggest you learn about history before you form opinions on what happened

sudneo ,

History is about what happened. “Otherwise it would” is speculation.

givesomefucks ,

And even after the nuclear bombs, there was an attempted coup to stop surrender.

Prior to the bombs, there was no chance of surrender.

That is history.

sudneo ,

And where is the count of deaths in the different timeline?

Look, my point is simple: human history is not deterministic and we simply can’t know what happens tomorrow like if we were predicting the laws of phisics. Maybe there were other 100 different course of actions leading to as many outcomes.

You can analyze what happened, but it’s foolish to say “this was better because the alternative would have led to”. You can only analyze and discuss what happened, otherwise anything can be justified with “it wouldn’t have been worse”.

“this genocide was good, because without it the oppressed population would have led to civil war and many more deaths”.

givesomefucks ,

You think the nuclear bombs were a genocide?

Seriously, who “taught” you this stuff?

I am genuinely curious where people presented all of this stuff you’re saying as history.

Like, it’s almost like the only thing you know about civilian deaths in WW2 was American dropped nukes.

There’s sooooo much that you’re missing. But unless you dropped out of school at a very young age, I can’t be the first person that tries to explain this to you

So where are your opinions coming from?

Is this a thing where you learned everything you know about a subject from YouTube videos?

If so…

Why?

sudneo ,

I just made an example of speculating on future occurrences to justify concrete actions that instead happened. In fact, the entire comment was about the general idea of considering history deterministic, not about the specific atomic bomb event…

givesomefucks ,

Bruh, you need to not speculate on things you have no idea about

But clearly you don’t care about what actually happened, so I’ll stop trying to explain basic shit to you now.

sudneo ,

You need to learn what abstraction is, my friend. I am not speculating. Quite the opposite. I am saying that you like to think the world works according to precise laws that you can use to predict the future. This is why you are arguing in multiple comments that “they would have…”, as if people are NPCs with 3 different behaviors and the outcomes are predetermined so it’s just a matter of choosing.

The reality is simple: you, me, nobody can know for sure what " would have happened" if history happened differently. This is a methodological issue, not a discussion on the merits of your speculation.

I don’t know if nuclear bombs caused less deaths than the millions of other potential courses of actions, and neither do you, neither does anybody else. I don’t know if Israel wiping off Gaza from the map potentially saved thousands of lives in future conflicts. You see the problem?

Now, before assuming that everyone else is an idiot and that you are the only smart one in the room, you might want to try a little harder to understand the point of your interlocutor, considering we are also discussing in what (I assume) is your native language but not mine. If you didn’t understand so far that my critique is in the method, not in the merits, of your claim, then I agree, there is nothing to talk about.

Pili ,

the nuclear strikes on Japan killed less than the conventional firebombing runs leading up to it, and if nukes wouldn’t have been used a shit ton more people would have died.

That’s an absolutely disgusting thing to say. Japan was already surrendering, they were only nuked as a show of strength.

I’m not sure what you imply when you say that “a shit ton more people would have died”, but if you’re saying that the US should have napalm bombed an entire surrendering country just to make an example, I don’t think it makes your argument valid. It’s not ok to do something horrible, just because you could have done something even worse if you had wanted to.

givesomefucks ,

Japan was already surrendering

Who told you something that ridiculous?

Omniraptor ,

They weren’t already surrendering, ok. I’m not an expert but imo it could be argued that the Soviet Union joining the war (as they were about to) might have given Japanese command an excuse to surrender while saving face, or triggered an internal coup or something. They weren’t stupid, surely they could see the writing on the wall.

givesomefucks ,

If you think there was anyway they’d have surrendered without nukes then yes, I will agree that you are “not an expert”.

For fucks sake, after the nukes there was still an attempted coup to prevent surrender…

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyūjō_incident

People thay think Japan surrendered because of loss of life, have no idea what they’re talking about about.

Japan surrendered because they thought America had more nukes, and if they kept fighting then Japan would be left uninhabitable for centuries due to atomic contamination.

The people who tried the coup, did so because they thought America didn’t have more nukes.

They weren’t stupid,

They weren’t, but honor was/is huge in their culture, and Japan was an empire for thousands of years.

They’d have fought to the last Japanese civilian was alive

They surrendered, and I know I’m repeating myself, because they thought their islands would be literally wiped off the face of the planet.

Anything less wouldn’t have won the war and cost more lives on both sides.

Even as a trolly problem, it’s not a tough call on if nukes saved lives.

ameancow ,

I don’t think any of this is even real to them. The same way that a majority of the white-nationalist 4-channers are just roleplaying and losing themselves in the storylines, as a species we tend to do that, we just get lost in a narrative because it explains how we feel.

The tankies are doing the same exact thing. They’re not impacting policy, they’re not marching for anything, they’re not taken seriously and it’s just another in-club that has its own language and imagery and secret handshakes and a unifying message to rally behind (America bad!) and instead of turning that criticism into actionable plans for changing representation and making anything better, they put on WW2 Russian Tanker helmets and have erotic fantasies about a communist uprising that will never happen.

Cryophilia ,

Children.

Pili ,

If anyone would like more context about the kind of think they were posting:

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/f2474ffc-5798-4ba2-980a-d6cb5f52b3af.png

wahming ,

Yep, the horror. I absolutely deserved an instance-wide ban for the terrible things I said.

I do love the amount of facts and proof that is been dug up and displayed in this post, many thanks to all those going to the effort!

lltnskyc ,

I’ve been banned from .ml for being a ‘racist’ for being anti-Xi, despite the fact that I am Chinese, and pointed out my ethnicity as such in the discussion.

And I’ve been censored (not yet banned, but I guess it won’t take long till that as well) on lemmy.world (and beehaw) for spreading “misinformation” about Ukraine, despite being a Ukrainian and actually reading (and sharing) the local news of what’s actually happening there, contrary to the government propaganda.

wahming ,

You claim Zelensky is illegitimate and authoritarian for not holding elections in the middle of a fight for the country’s survival. The logic there is hilariously bad. Setting aside the absolute waste of resources, the last thing any country needs in such a scenario is for their leaders to start campaigning over who’s going to take control. It’s not the time and place for it. If you want to blame anybody, blame Russia

lltnskyc ,

Right, so basically it’s okay for countries to be authoritarian, it’s okay to slaughter thousands of people and making everybody else live in constant fear, as long as the government aligns itself with the west.
Why would I blame Russia? It’s not Russia, it’s not Putin who is kidnapping people of the streets in Ukraine and sends them to die. It’s Zelensky’s regime.

Very cool and humanitarian and obviously I don’t agree with that. But out of curiosity - can you please explain to me why is North Korea different?
It is also officially still in a state of a war with South Korea. Does it mean Kim Jong Un is suddenly also a hero that leads his country against the enemy? It doesn’t matter that people are trapped there, it doesn’t matter that people may not support him, all the atrocities committed by him do not matter as well, because they are in a war, am I right?

wahming ,

Because South Korea is not actively trying to wipe out NK from existence, but actually the opposite is trying to reach out to NK and stabilise relations. ‘War’ is a hilarious way to describe their status. Way to strawman the argument.

lltnskyc ,

but actually the opposite is trying to reach out to NK and stabilise relations

That’s just super fucking ironic, considering that Russia never stopped saying that they are open to negotiations (and the very first peace deal was actually they they go back to before-2022-invasion borders) and it is Zelensky who always refuses to negotiate and instead sends more Ukrainians to die.

wahming ,

Oh you mean the deal where they tried to make their seizure of Crimea legitimate?

Ok, this is reaching russian troll levels of disinformation. I think it’s clear enough to any 3rd parties just why you’re getting your comments deleted.

lltnskyc ,

Oh you mean the deal where they tried to make their seizure of Crimea legitimate?

This has already happened, and is going to stay that way, whether you or I or anybody else likes it or not…

So it woudn’t have changed anything, except, you know, such a tiny little details as hundreds of thousands of lives.

Belastend ,

Who kills the Ukranians that are being send to die?

lltnskyc ,

Russia.

Now, I answered your question, would you please be so kind to answer mine now, which is also quite simple?

If there are two men, man A is simply operating a meat grinder while man B kidnaps people from the streets (soon he will start breaking into people’s homes as well), forcefully pushes them into the meat grinder, and watches to make sure they can’t get out of it, he also makes sure nobody leaves the city so that he can continue his game, who do you blame more for deaths of people in the meat grinder?

Belastend ,

The man who operates the meat grinder? The man who started the business of shoving people into a grinder??? An everadvancing grinder? Jesus. At least get your metaphor right

lltnskyc ,

The man who operates the meat grinder? The man who started the business of shoving people into a grinder???

Those are two different people though.

Belastend ,

No. Russia isnt just hosting a meat grinder that operates on the front, stationary and non threatening. The meat grinder is ever advancing and as we have seen in Bucha, its business is tp shove people in there. Russia is the aghressor after all.

EleventhHour ,
@EleventhHour@lemmy.world avatar

As others have said, the only option available currently is to leave the instance and re-create your beloved communities elsewhere. The Lemmy.ml Admins also happen to be the ones actively developing the Lemmy code base, and they’re not gonna change because they feel entitled to do whatever they want, and technically, they can because they run the instance.

My best advice is to move on from the instance.

FaceDeer ,
@FaceDeer@fedia.io avatar

If you want to get away from the Lemmy codebase entirely I can vouch that mBin works quite nicely. I've been on fedia.io for months now and only once or twice hit some kind of technical problem, which was resolved quickly.

Atelopus-zeteki ,
@Atelopus-zeteki@kbin.run avatar

MBIN FTW. KBIN has been "We are working on resolving the issues" for some days now. I hope Ernest is ok.

I have a login for lemmy.ml, as I have several from when I was switching over from Reddit. I'm thinking from what I'm reading here, that it's not an instance I want to associate with.

FaceDeer ,
@FaceDeer@fedia.io avatar

Yeah, nothing against Ernest but developing and running kbin is just too big to be a one-man show.

Atelopus-zeteki ,
@Atelopus-zeteki@kbin.run avatar

Dude's a superhero, and needn't be a 'lone ranger'. Agreed. As the Fediverse expands, it will be the work of many; it just has to be that way.

PugJesus ,

I do hope he eventually finds a balance that works both for him and for us. I greatly prefer Kbin, when it’s, y’know, up.

Atelopus-zeteki ,
@Atelopus-zeteki@kbin.run avatar

Agreed! And yeah, still down, I just checked.

ahornsirup ,
@ahornsirup@sopuli.xyz avatar

Are there mobile apps yet? Because if no that’s one huge advantage Lemmy still has over Kbin/Mbin, and it’s why I switched to Lemmy when Artemis started having issues (it went down completely since) instead of going back to Kbin.

debounced ,
@debounced@kbin.run avatar
ahornsirup ,
@ahornsirup@sopuli.xyz avatar

Oh, cool. That one flew completely under my radar. I’ll have to check it out when I have time.

xnx ,

Don’t forget about piefed it’s amazing and lets you subscribe to posts and/or comments. Theres someone who contributed Lemmy API compatibility to use some Lemmy apps with Piefed instances. Its still very early but so far its extremely promising and the codebase is in python and the main developer is focused on ensuring it wasy to contribute. Check it out: piefed.social

Code is on codeberg which is great too codeberg.org/rimu/pyfedi

bacon_saber ,

Agree and just to add to this: the official list of mbin instances

Microw ,

Well since all major lemmy instances seem to hide mod names in their logs, we don’t know who the banning mods are.

Lemmy.ml also has the funny quirk that it doesnt have a proper legal imprint or team list afaik. So we don’t have actual transparent information on who is on that instances admin team and who is not. Iirc only one of dessalines and nutomic is on that admin team anymore.

EleventhHour ,
@EleventhHour@lemmy.world avatar

Well since all major lemmy instances seem to hide mod names in their logs, we don’t know who the banning mods are.

I hardly see what that would accomplish if we could.

goferking0 ,

Nothing good or productive would come out of showing mod names in mod logs. Would just have people doing witch hunts on user level instead of instances like they do now

Microw ,

People keep bringing up that because of the devs history with that instance, “surely it is the Lemmy devs themselves who are doing this”. Which hurts Lemmy’s reputation overall.

EleventhHour ,
@EleventhHour@lemmy.world avatar

Actions have consequences

boredtortoise ,

I guess some mod actions could be considered accidents or mistakes instead of bad actors. A transparent system would have a flow to allow the user to contact and get such a mistake rectified, or report a wrongful mod action to an admin.

But if the admin is a problem, then that needs more figuring out how to get one removed.

EleventhHour ,
@EleventhHour@lemmy.world avatar

the only one who can remove an admin is a more senior admin, and they can already see behind the “mod” alias.

your point seems moot

Eldritch ,

This Dessalines?

1000001794

Creeping the admin logs to find out who dared down vote him.

Darkpepito_tux , (edited )
@Darkpepito_tux@lemmy.world avatar

As a marxist, I’m myself tired of how tankies deals with criticism. And I don’t even understand how people can stay with “Stalin was not so bad”, knowing that he never planned to apply the last state of the Communist theory, and even if it did, massacre are not acceptable (sounds obvious), same applying with China and their open market.
In my country (France), Stalinism isn’t a thing, all communists are against what happend in USSR, and most are anti-china.

finder585 ,

I’m myself tired of how tankies deals with criticism.

It’s because tankies are just contrarians that use communist ideology as a vehicle to be anti-west / anti-United States (anti-liberal democracy). Tankies will defend any cause or ideology that is against ‘the west’ even if that means happily ignoring the blatant homophobic, genocidal and repressive authoritarianism.

Hadriscus ,

That describes them well imo

Doom ,

wow this is literally them

Bernie_Sandals ,
@Bernie_Sandals@lemmy.world avatar

It’s called second campism, and it’s been happening for a long time, it just used to make more sense when it could actually seem like there was two hegemonic camps during the cold war (still an oversimplistic view).

Now they just support any regime that’s anti-US/the original capitalist camp because they have no hegemonic camp of their own to support, just a broad smattering of authoritarian regimes with completely different ideologies.

Lianodel ,

And capitalist regimes. The Russian Federation was literally founded by a betrayal of a reformist movement in the USSR, and China consulted with Milton Goddamn Friedman on their economy, ending up with billionaires. I even saw .ml users crying about Russian *oligarchs" having their assets seized (“stolen,” as they said), and unironically citing Matt Taibbi. Not even “back in the day” Taibbi, but literally The Twitter Files. Using bought & paid for corporate propaganda to make their point.

They’re just campists. I don’t want to run afoul of a “No True Scotsman” situation, but fuck, for people who seem to think they’re the Only True Socialists, they’re willing to drop socialism in an instant if it means they can be edgy dickheads on the internet.

Drivebyhaiku ,

As a Socialist that subscribes more to the historical strain of Saint Simone and Robert Owen that broke out and away early from Marxism to become the Chartist movement and the history of American non-Marxist socialism … I am often tired of how one note Tankies are. They seem obsessed with a sort of internal purity which denies a rich history of socialism other than Marx and Engles. Once one of them goes off about Stalinism or Maoism I basically just disengage because at that point they are basically so enamored with the aesthetics of communism that they aren’t going to be listening to anything. They want to be devout to the ideology while whitewashing the bloodstains of past failures. I understand a collectivist mindset is more or less what Marx aims to cultivate in his work but it seems often at the cost of tolerance of any level of apostasy.

The flattening of a mass of political thought into cardboard cuttouts to snipe at and sneering at the range of Socialism hybrids with No True Scotsman flavour condescension as political ideologies simply not complete worldviews in their own right has got me rather depressed in dealing with the average Communist on here. People in general often just seem to want to find something simple and easy to hate.

Lucidlethargy ,

I think all instances need to defederate. This is totally inexcusable. We shouldn’t be attached and well connected to a CCP-controlled (influenced or directly) community. This is propaganda, pure and simple.

It’s not a problem to have dissenting opinions to widely held beliefs, but it is a problem to have those injected constantly into our streams while all opposition is silently erased and curated to artifically support state-sponsored CCP propaganda.

rufus ,

Thanks for spreading the word. We get these complaints every few weeks. More people need to be educated and move away from these instances to make the Threadiverse a better place.

Brunbrun6766 ,
@Brunbrun6766@lemmy.world avatar

What the fuck is the threadiverse. This is the Fediverse. Threads has added nothing and has no place here.

Duamerthrax ,

They speak like a bot. Zuckerberg sending miles to infiltrate?

rufus , (edited )

Are you referring to me or BigFig? I’m neither a mile (I’m European, so we use the metric system), nor a mole. If you make me choose an animal, I’d like to be an alpaca. And I’d be willing to do a captcha to prove to you that I’m not a bot.

FozzyOsbourne ,

Are you new here? “Threadiverse” has been used to refer to thread-based fediverse technologies that use threaded comments since before Zuck’s “threads” was even announced!

Duamerthrax ,

I’ve only really heard Fediverse. I don’t really get into the meta discussions on here though. I’m also getting hyper sensitive to chatters that sound like bots. They mentioned “we”, but it doesn’t look like they’re a mod or admin, so I thought it was a bot using some PR speak from the dataset.

pmk ,

thread as in threaded posts as opposed to other parts of the fediverse with another layout. it’s not about the instance Threads, but the type of fediverse service allowing a lemmy/kbin type of conversation.

SorteKanin ,
@SorteKanin@feddit.dk avatar

Threadiverse is just a general term to refer to the parts of the Fediverse that behaves like forums (cause forums have threads). It has nothing to do with threads.net.

nutsack ,

as a communism sympathizing leftist, i hated these mods on reddit and i hate them here. the behavior is idiotic

Socsa ,

That’s the most frustrating part. These “leftists” are the stupid kind who seem to care more about relitigating idiotic cold war drama than evolving or pushing forward leftist philosophy. It’s straight up brain rot, mixed with obvious right wing agitprop disguised as leftist ideology. That fact that anyone other than trolls, spies and teenagers would engage with it is astounding.

Duamerthrax ,

Some people just have daddy issues and need an image of a power figure to guide their life. It’s obvious on the right, but I’ve seen various shades of it in the left as well.

WanderingVentra ,

Cold war drama is still alive and well. You could see it when people call freaking Bernie, or even more laughably Biden, a communist, or in the fall out of every country in the global south, from Latin America to the Middle East, from propped up divisions of countries in East Asia, to the poor former Soviet block of Eastern European countries looted in the wake of the fall of the USSR. Our present interference in South Korea, Taiwan, Cubs Afghanistan, Yemen, and elsewhere are all relics of that time. The US has never really left the red scare mindset, and the global geopolitics of that era will reverberate for generations to come. It’s why everyone celebrated when Kissinger died.

Still, saying all that commie and socialist stuff, I still think lemmy.ml is too ban happy. I like that they don’t defederate as fast as Lemmy.world, which I think is too eager on that front. But in terms of their posting moderation, I think lemmy.ml is way too heavy handed, and hence I don’t like their moderation style at all. It’s why I made sure not to choose either of those instances despite them being the biggest and most default. I do like having the choice, though, which is one big thing I like about the fediverse. There’s no way to avoid that kind of shit on Reddit. I just wish people would split up the communities among different instances better, though.

fuckingkangaroos ,

“leftists”

They’re not, that’s just a cover for spreading CCP propaganda.

tigeruppercut ,

Let’s play identify the ml propaganda! Is it CCP or from the Kremlin?

fuckingkangaroos ,

Tough game, as part of their “super authentic bff” relationship they seem to be loosely coordinating social media disinformation operations.

Zeroxxx ,

If .ml is a CCP propaganda, then blahaj and co are terrorists.

It’s pretty weird with massive amount of money CCP has, they decide to spread propaganda on, gasp, smol forums like Fediverse.

Not that I support .ml, I don’t care either way, I just find your view… weird.

Cryophilia ,

Bigger bang for their buck here. Trust me, the fediverse is not their only target, but they can have a lot of influence with less effort than reddit or Facebook.

fuckingkangaroos ,

Yeah, there’s no central entity to address misinformation.

Zeroxxx ,

Disagreed. But you do you

bigboig ,

Anyone can spread propaganda pro bono

Halosheep ,

I got banned from a blahaj instance for likening them to ml and hexbear.

MrSpArkle ,

The mods of the non-political subs need to move elsewhere, eventually after that the content will just be tankie bullshit and everyone can just defederate them.

Wrench ,

We can defederate them now. Content will move as it reaches fewer eyes.

Crowfiend ,

Even the non political .ml communities are full of power-tripping, ban-happy, thread-nuking tyrants in my experience.

Sunny ,

Thanks for shedding light on this! I will do my part and no longer post in communities tied to lemmy.ml!

fuckingkangaroos ,

Lemmy.ml is a cancer on the Fediverse. If we want it to survive, we need to cut it off.

MacNCheezus ,
@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today avatar

On your Lemmy instance, go to Settings -> Blocks and just block the entire instance. That’s what I did.

Blackmist ,

Doesn’t block their users though, only their communities.

MacNCheezus ,
@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today avatar

I’m honestly fine with that, because outside of their home server, they cannot rely on their mods to protect them from arguments they don’t want to hear.

fuckingkangaroos ,

You’re fine with a murderous authoritarian government spreading disinformation where you socialize?

MacNCheezus ,
@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today avatar

I’m fine with it as long as I don’t have to debate them on THEIR terms.

fuckingkangaroos ,

Go ahead and “debate” the CCP, enjoy.

MacNCheezus ,
@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today avatar

Like I said, fine with me as long as it’s on neutral ground and they can’t just have an admin delete some of my arguments because they don’t like them.

fuckingkangaroos ,

You’ll waste your time arguing with authoritarian ChatGPTs.

MacNCheezus ,
@MacNCheezus@lemmy.today avatar

Two can play that game. And since ChatGPT has a rather liberal bias baked in, I’m not sure it would it work out too well for the tankies.

Audacious ,

Sad to see. Feels like Lemmy has no bright future with people in charge of it thinking russia’s and China’s government is good and ban difference of thoughts, opinions, and beliefs.

laughterlaughter ,

Are you saying that all popular instances are run by “tankies”?

lltnskyc ,

ban difference of thoughts, opinions, and beliefs

That’s exactly what lemmy.world is doing.

Anticorp ,

Not only do they delete truthful responses that contradict their ideology, they often do it in such a way that it is untraceable by other mods. I’m not sure how they accomplish that, nor is the admin who messaged me letting me know that it was happening and he couldn’t figure out how. Anyways, my solution has been to completely block that instance, and delete my account there. If they want to exist in a little untruthful echo chamber, then so be it, but I don’t need to be a part of it. I recommend you do the same thing.

SpaceCadet OP ,
@SpaceCadet@feddit.nl avatar

I’m not sure how they accomplish that

If they have database access, which they would have being the admins, they can do anything.

NOT_RICK ,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

The Lemmy devs are .ml admins to boot.

Blaze ,
@Blaze@reddthat.com avatar

Pretty hard to boot when they own the instance

NOT_RICK ,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

Ah, I meant “to boot” meaning “in addition to”

Blaze ,
@Blaze@reddthat.com avatar

Ah, makes sense!

Flatworm7591 ,
@Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Their mod actions usually do federate out, but their outgoing federation is a bit borked right now with some instances, perhaps due to the recent upgrade to Lemmy 0.19.4-rc.6. I believe they are at least aware of it now, though they have been basically non-responsive to the issue so far.

lltnskyc ,

they delete truthful responses that contradict their ideology

That is EXACTLY what is done on lemmy.world.

barsquid ,
lltnskyc ,

Nice, didn’t know there was a possibility to see deleted comments, thanks :) (not every deleted comment is there though, but enough to show the total hypocrisy of lemmy.world)

OpenStars , (edited )
@OpenStars@discuss.online avatar

beehaw.org/modlog?page=1&userId=4130334

lemmy.ml/modlog?page=1&userId=1782109

It gets difficult to find them sometimes, depending on who removed it and from where. If a moderator, from the community, removed it then the removal reason could have originated from where the community is located at, whereas if an administrator of an instance removed it then it would be elsewhere.

For all that the lemmy.ml admins enjoy going on sprees of mass-removals, it sure would be nice if they would add to the code a way to see the reasons for removal linked to directly from the comment itself.

lltnskyc ,

Oh yeah, that’s the other one, thx!
I did not even get a notification for that comment why it was deleted, but now I see, and sure enough - it’s misinformation (despite providing 5 or 6 links to sources in a comment below, including reputable western (!!) media and tens/hundreds of footages…). 🤷‍♂️

Socsa ,

It is extremely obvious that the .ml admins run a malicious version of the Lemmy code which gives them additional levers of control. This alone makes them a serious threat to the entire fediverse.

sudneo ,

It is not obvious, most likely not necessary and in any case completely unproven. Why are you so busy making stuff up in this thread?

SoleInvictus ,

There’s a ton of misinformation on this post and some of those spreading it seem to be vigorously doing so.

SpaceCadet OP ,
@SpaceCadet@feddit.nl avatar

So it seems they do indeed clean up the modlog… my bans are still in there, but all mod actions where they removed China critical comments are no longer there.

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