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RubberElectrons , (edited )
@RubberElectrons@lemmy.world avatar

I don’t really care. My dick works great, I wouldn’t do this to my kids but my parents trusted the doctor. I still love my parents anyway.

E: also, this illustrated girl looks really weird, and this is a really weird conversation. Real women do not look like this, and I wouldn’t get naked in front of a girl who looked like this. Eeesh.

orrk ,

oh, the parents? for the most part unknowing, the doctor on the other hand? ya, hate him

NightAuthor , (edited )

Supposedly is super safe and has health benefits, I once compared it to female genital mutilation and ooh boy was I corrected.

Edit: the above is far from an endorsement. Some of yall could use some practice critical reading.

phobiac ,
@phobiac@lemmy.world avatar

The health benefits are overblown and the evidence is largely from flawed studies. While not as debilitating as clitoris circumcision, it’s still genital mutilation and it’s regularly done in the US for no good reason beyond cultural pressure.

TokenBoomer ,

Thanks. I researched circumcision extensively when my son was born. These comments are from people who have literally “no skin” in the game.

LillyPip ,

Same. Don’t let anyone make you feel bad for not doing it. I don’t know how old your son is, but mine’s 25 and I’ve never heard any complaints. He never got an infection, and never got bullied over it.

It’s a simple procedure they can get done as an adult if they’re unhappy with their penis, and at that point it’s their choice, which imo it should be.

eta for anyone on the fence: they can always remove the foreskin if they want, but growing it back is another matter.

cashews_best_nut ,

There’s health benefits to removing the appendix and tonsils too - so why isn’t it done wholesale on every kid born?

Because it’s fucking barbaric chopping bits of you up without necessity.

On top of that as science has progressed - guess what? They think both the tonsils and appendix have a purpose. They’re important for immunity.

But there was never a fucking doubt that the foreskin has a purpose in human beings. So the removal of it for “health benefits” really is scraping the fucking barrel.

Sarmyth ,

No. It’s not done because it’s invasive surgery. Like, are you for real?

Ask anyone who had their appendix rupture if they wish it could have been removed while they were barely aware of the world and had nothing else going on in their life.

TokenBoomer ,

Weird that they don’t remove appendixes after birth tbh. /s

Sarmyth ,

It’s a major surgery. But I’ve worked with a guy who had his removed preemptively after watching his brother’s rupture. It’s rare, though, because again, it’s major surgery to remove that ticking time bomb.

KairuByte ,
@KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

There is strong evidence that it causes long term trauma. Just because you can’t remember something doesn’t mean it doesn’t have an effect on you. They literally strap you down, rip open the skin, and chop it off without any kind of pain management.

It is absolutely insane. Go watch the procedure on YouTube or something to understand what actually happens. Then take into consideration you’re likely seeing a “best case” outcome.

Sarmyth ,

No. Everything you said is wrong or unproven. Just stop making shit up or floating around these bizarre internet cults.

KairuByte ,
@KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Here is an article summarizing a number of sources, and providing the sources summarized: psychologytoday.com/…/circumcision-s-psychologica…

Sarmyth ,

Lotta bad science in there.

  1. Pain is only shown in the control group with zero management.
  2. Behavioral tests were animals exclusively, with no pain management.
  3. The fact that there are people online upset about their dicks doesn’t necessarily relate to circumcision and could be multiple factors like mate rejection, erectile disfunction, sense of lack of control in the rest of their lives.

The reasons go on and on for what could make a person blame something they perceive as outside themselves for the bad in their lives. Ex: “My dick doesn’t work not because of work stress and substance abuse! It must be because I was circumcised!”

After the 4th bit of bad science in a row, I stopped reading their article because it was only going down hill from there as more conclusions got based on the initial studies. The author also called into question the validity of the study done in Africa, but this is rebutted by the CDC last year in their open letter regarding criticism of their stance.

KairuByte ,
@KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Lmao the study done in Africa was terrible. The CDC themselves say they focus on it because it provides the best results for circumcision.

They also don’t actually respond to the two main points I take issue with, summarized nicely here: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3255200/

TokenBoomer ,

If you were uncircumcised now, would you choose to have it done at your current age? No. Then, why do it to a baby without their consent? It’s a bodily autonomy issue.

Waraugh ,

I chose to when I was 13 because ejaculating felt like my urethra was going to rip in half. If I somehow made it like that another thirty years I would absolutely have it done again.

TokenBoomer ,

Sorry that happened to you. It may have been God’s way of telling you to stop masturbating. /s All jokes aside, it should always be the individual’s choice.

Waraugh ,

I agree it should be the individuals choice and when medically necessary. Sometimes I feel the narrative swings too far the other way as there are medically necessary reasons.

For context I don’t recognize uncircumcised penises when compared to my own even as a young teen. The head of my dick extended beyond the foreskin before I was circumcised. I had three strands of skin that connected between the head and skin around top of the shaft. One of the thinner strands tore once when I got an erection. The other two were significantly larger strands and would stretch and pull the head of my dick to the side when I got an erection. That bent angle hurt like hell inside when I ejaculated and just getting a boner would hurt from the strands of connective skin.

All that to say the doctor told me I was getting a circumcision but other than those strands of skin I already appeared circumcised to my knowledge. I was left with scars on the head and shaft tissue from where they were cut off though.

LillyPip , (edited )

My father had to have his removed for the same reason (I know this because we had a conversation when I was pregnant with my son and said I wasn’t going to have him circumcised). That can happen, and I’m sorry it happened to you.

I still didn’t have my son circumcised, and would make the same decision today because those issues are comparatively rare. It sucks a lot if you have to go through that, but preemptively removing the foreskin seems harsh considering how rare complications are.

Waraugh ,

I don’t disagree with you at all. I have two sons, first one is circumcised due to medical advice from our doctor and our second one isn’t. I try to inform myself as much as possible but ultimately depend on medical professionals that I trust to help me make the best decisions I can. I’m certain I’ll never get them all correct but I do my best to be informed. I’m fairly certain the online narrative of vitriol towards circumcising isn’t aimed at medically advised procedures but the loudest voices seem to be the most ignorant towards the realities of life’s nuances. While it is mostly black and white their is still some gray area that gets lost in what I assume is well meaning commentary.

Sarmyth ,

Not a real comparison. A baby is given some sugar water and already lives in diapers. They don’t even bleed after it’s done, and you just put some jelly on the front of the diaper for the first few weeks. They experience no discernable discomfort.

An adult male has gone through puberty and has a life that doesn’t involve sleeping through 18 hours of it and getting changed every couple of hours. The risk of infection is greater because you are an adult who doesn’t get the luxury of having every single need met 24/7 and getting to rest through your entire recovery.

TokenBoomer ,

Exactly. Babies can’t consent to have their bodies altered. Unless it is medically necessary, it should not be performed.

Sarmyth ,

That’s not the criteria for making medical decisions for your child, though. You have a kid, you know this. We make decisions that might have lasting physical ramifications for them for years.

I believe in vaccines and vaccinated my kid, but if someone felt the risks of them were too high, we don’t call it child abuse. And if someone delayed vaccinations, that’s not child abuse either.

We can phrase things in extremes like abuse all day, but it doesn’t make it true. Injecting babies with modified hepatitis c in the first 12 hours of their life sounds like assaulting a child unless you know those words just mean they got a vaccine.

I think the reason people don’t give a shit about online circumcision protesting is because most of them are cringe sycophants, using the worst language possible to alter someone’s opinion on the issue.

TokenBoomer ,

Watch a video of a circumcision and get back to me. If it’s not necessary, it shouldn’t be done. When my son was born, circumcision shouldn’t have even been an option. The “cringe sycophants” are the religious and miseducated nurses that asked me if I wanted it done.

Sarmyth ,

I’ve seen it live. No video was needed. It’s not a decision to be made in the room, though. We were asked at the 20-week appointment by our doctor. She went through the merits and downsides. She was also younger than my wife and I, so it’s not just old-school doctors who ask or think there’s merit. She didn’t push either way, though.

TokenBoomer ,

We weren’t asked until after birth. I was prepared and it had been discussed. But I’m sure many are unprepared. That’s why I’m advocating on here. Know before you go. Don’t look back in hindsight and think “oh well.”

Cockmaster6000 ,

You are profoundly uninformed and clearly huffing copium to deal with the fact that you chose to mutilate your own newborn sons penis. Great work bro.

Sarmyth ,

I trust the doctors over internet weirdos obsessed with kids penises.

slackassassin ,

Who’s more obsessed, those who leave well enough alone or those who perform drastic, unnecessary, life-altering surgery as soon as a baby enters the world?

Sarmyth ,

You seem pretty obsessed to me. You keep bringing it up.

slackassassin ,

Less than you have. And it takes zero action to not cut a babies dick. Whereas it takes a special kind of obsession to do so.

Sarmyth ,

Some people believe in doctors, the CDC, the World Health Organization, and countless other institutions, and some people don’t. You’re the latter, and the last 4 years taught me that people in your camp are wrong about too many things, but also that you need to be told you are wrong before you get emboldened by your recklessness and idiocy.

It also showed me that you’re depraved sycophants that are almost always projecting some weird perv shit.

slackassassin , (edited )

There’s more to science literacy than you are capable of, apparently. Otherwise, you know that there’s a biological purpose foreskin serves and the choice to remove it is weighed against risk factors that are very low and able to be mitigated.

Grow up, wash your dick, and use a condom. Get a circumcision if you want when you’re an adult. It’s not that hard for the vast majority of the world and history. You aren’t “right”, you’re just an asshole. Talking about genital mutilation in terms of camps, get over yourself.

Sarmyth ,

I read just fine. You just can’t accept that lots of people disagree with you. The person calling a medical procedure done in a hospital mutilation is obviously lying. You lie and exaggerate because telling the truth would mean you don’t get to look down on people from the internet.

Our bodies having parts doesn’t make them inherently useful or purposeful or superior to life without. We still have tail bones, we grow teeth that don’t fit it our mouths, babies have razor-sharp nails that they slash their faces with, and we get auto-immune diseases. Our bodies are a minefield, constantly finding new and inspired ways to die or fail in spectacular fashion.

Repeated childhood infections that can be reduced to zero are hard to measure as people whose children suffer from repeated infections arr loath to self report for risk of being investigated for negligence.

The advice to wash your dick is a sure sign that you weren’t heavily involved in raising a child. Getting them to brush their damn teeth, wash their hands, and just generally not be gross is hard enough without necessitating a genital check as well.

If that can be achieved with a common and safe procedure that has extra perks and downsides that are largely assumed instead of proven, all the better.

slackassassin ,

You think it’s really important to perform an unnecessary procedure. That’s fine for you, but it doesn’t make it necessary. It’s a cultural practice.

Circumcision isn’t mutilation in and of itself, but performing an unnecessary surgery on somebody without consent is.

The advice to wash your dick is a sure sign that you weren’t heavily involved in raising a child. Getting them to brush their damn teeth, wash their hands, and just generally not be gross is hard enough without necessitating a genital check as well.

My kids do all of those things. You’re just bad at parenting, which explains a lot, actually.

Imagine cutting off a part of your child because you aren’t capable of getting them to clean it.

Sarmyth ,

You’ve assumed I don’t do all those things as well. The difference is I’m not a piece of shit online about it calling people bad parents. But you are.

slackassassin ,

Naw you just call them weirdos, reckless idiots, pervs, depraved sycophants … a piece of shit … But a quip about bad parenting got your pearls clutched. Gtfoh with that holier than thou shit.

Sarmyth ,

I call you that for the way you behave here, not your parenting.

slackassassin ,

Samsies.

LillyPip , (edited )

The advice to wash your dick is a sure sign that you weren’t heavily involved in raising a child.

That’s quite an arrogant statement.

My son is 25, and happy with my decision not to have him circumcised. I know because I asked him based on this discussion.

He never once got any sort of infection, because I taught him basic hygiene.

Our bodies having parts doesn’t make them inherently useful or purposeful or superior to life without. We still have tail bones

The foreskin is not a vestigial trait. It’s a 100% relevant and useful organ today. (eta: I know about vestigial traits because I have one: Darwin’s tubercle. I’d also not have appreciated having my ears docked at birth.)

Ask anyone who has a foreskin. That’s a profoundly ignorant comparison.

we grow teeth that don’t fit it our mouths

That’s an adaptive trait that serves us quite well, because our hominid ancestors fed their young the most high-energy fruits, which also increased the risk of cavities in our young. Being able to shed and replace juvenile teeth meant we were able to commence adulthood without the risk of starving. Our wisdom teeth weren’t a problem until very, very recently, because the evolution of our bodies haven’t had time to catch up with our modern diet. That’s nothing like the foreskin, where our sexual activity has not changed in millions of years. You should learn some paleo-anthropology before making comparisons like that.

and we get auto-immune diseases.

I have very severe autoimmune disease. Many recent studies point to environmental causes, which are recent and our evolution cannot account for.

None of that has anything whatever to do with the continued and relevant importance of the foreskin to sexual pleasure.

I am a mother who decided not to circumcise my child (who is now 25 and is happy to have his foreskin), a decision I made after talking to my father who had to have his removed in his teens after developing a rare condition. I know more about this topic than many people, and certainly more than you.

The reasons this procedure is commonly done in the US are questionable at best. We have learned better, and this archaic practice should not be advocated any longer.

If you had it done to you and/or had it done to your child, I’m not here to shame you. Until recently, it’s just what we did, but going forward, we should do better for our children and our species based on what we’ve learned. And we shouldn’t be a dick when presented with information that goes against our cultural norms (pun intended).

e: link to my 4 month old comment about my vestigial trait. I had to scroll through nearly a thousand comments to find it, whew.

LillyPip ,

It’s a totally valid comparison.

Removing the foreskin has real ramifications for not only looks but sexual pleasure (which, by the way, was why it was popularised by puritan Christians in the US – the original point was to stop teenage boys from masturbating by making it less pleasurable).

Cutting off the foreskin at birth takes something from a man that he can’t really restore later, whereas doing nothing gives him the bodily autonomy to make that decision later. You can always remove it if you want, but once it’s gone, you can’t just grow it back.

A baby is at your mercy and has no choice in the matter.

Sarmyth ,

No, you only have a short window to make it a nothing surgery vs. a week+ recovery time.

A baby will always be at their parents’ mercy. And if a parent feels the medical benefits outweigh the risks, they get to make that choice.

Also, I don’t get why people keep bringing up Kellog and his ilk. It’s irrelevant. WHO and the CDC both cite benefits. That’s relevant enough for a person today without pretending the reasoning has to be based on old information.

LillyPip , (edited )

Again, cite sources?

Yes, I’m aware it’s a week of recovery time later. I made the decision not to circumcise my son after talking to my father who had the procedure in his teens after he developed a condition. He told me exactly what it was like. (My father is 88 and was born before circumcision was common.)

You can do almost anything to an infant and they won’t remember the trauma. Infants have been subjected to near-fatal child abuse, including having their femurs broken, and they don’t remember it. That doesn’t make it right.

Having your wisdom teeth removed takes at least a week of recovery and we do that in late teens or early twenties. There are lots of things that take a week to recover from, and having to have your foreskin removed because it’s causing issues is far, far more rare. That’s not a reason to take that choice away.

Like I said, they can always have that procedure later if they want to, but once it’s done, that choice is basically gone.

Also like I said, I’m not trying to make people feel bad for having done it when we didn’t really know better. I’m not shaming anyone. It’s just what we did until recently. Going forward, though, it’s not justified and we shouldn’t be advocating for it now that we know better.

eta: and Kellogg isn’t irrelevant. That’s exactly why the practice has been embedded in American culture, so when we’re talking about why we do it, he’s extremely relevant.

Sarmyth ,

cdc.gov/…/MC-for-HIV-Prevention-Fact-Sheet_508.pd…

…aap.org/…/Circumcision-Policy-Statement?autologi…

who.int/…/voluntary-medical-male-circumcision

KairuByte ,
@KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

It is as safe as any similar procedure, and comes with inherent risk. There’s a reason people talk about “botched circumcisions” which do indeed happen.

The health benefits aren’t even a full percentage point difference. We are talking minuscule differences, and most of it is based on bad science. How can I know this? The studies were often done on grown adults, in third world countries. Disease is already rampant there, and considering rape is so prevalent in many of the areas that anti-rape condoms were created and distributed, there are no social barriers in place to prevent the spread of disease. And finally, they tested to see if there was disease spread almost immediately after the procedure had fully healed. Meaning the men who didn’t get circumcised had been fucking around for a much, much longer time than the circumcised men.

And FGM is a pretty good allegory. We are talking about Male Genital Mutilation, why wouldn’t Female Genital Mutilation be similar? Because it’s normalized in some first world countries? You’re removing double the nerve endings when you remove foreskin vs destroy the clit, I’d say they line up close enough.

Look at it this way, we all agree declawing cats is super safe and has health benefits. But it’s being outlawed all over the place because it’s barbaric. But we still cut baby dicks. It’s pretty fucked up.

RubberElectrons ,
@RubberElectrons@lemmy.world avatar

I don’t hate the doctor either. It was a long time ago, and intent matters. I don’t think the doctor wanted to hurt me, they likely bought into the studies and groupthink that were prevalent at the time.

The result is unfortunate, but it happened, and we all strive to do better with our own kids, especially now that we have things like the internet.

iorale ,

deleted_by_author

    •
    june ,

    No you’re getting it wrong: you LOSE sensitivity because the head of your penis is getting direct stimulation all the time. Because of the resultant loss of sensitivity the expectation would be that you would take longer to finish.

    But sex is a complex thing that involves a lot more than just the physical stimulation, so it’s not 1:1 with regards to speed. It IS howeve impactful for the pleasure of the person with the penis. It’s more intense and pleasurable for people that aren’t circumcised. Sex is obviously still great even if you are circumcised but it’s a little like being colorblind if you were circumcised at birth: you don’t really know what you’re missing so it’s kind of ok and not really bothersome for the majority.

    iorale ,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    LillyPip ,

    Though rare, some people have had to have the procedure done as an adult, so they know the difference.

    Kusimulkku ,

    It’s always “you lose sentivity”, “you don’t feel as good as me” and… well… how the fuck do they know? How the fuck do you know?

    You know, some have had it done as adults

    UnderpantsWeevil ,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    I remember idiots on reddit swearing it lowered my sensitivity by a lot but if that were true…

    Certainly possible, but also not even necessarily a bad thing.

    I should note that there’s another big knock on benefit.

    Circumcised men compared with uncircumcised men have also been shown in clinical trials to be less likely to acquire new infections with syphilis (by 42%), genital ulcer disease (by 48%), genital herpes (by 28% to 45%), and high-risk strains of human papillomavirus associated with cancer (by 24% to 47% percent)

    Which, particularly back in the 60s-90s period, was a bfd given the stigma around contraception and other genital protection measures. Significantly less so now when condoms are so readily available. But even then…

    It’s a non-issue but people have to be mad for something I guess (because there’s no other big reasons to be mad/s).

    It does feel like people are looking for something to fixate on as a rabble-rousing issue that’s a-political-ish. But the loudest anti-circumcision advocates tend to have truly awful surrounding politics. It feels like a… trojan issue.

    cashews_best_nut ,

    But the loudest anti-circumcision advocates tend to have truly awful surrounding politics.

    Maybe in the US? But Europeans reading about circumcision just find you all a bit weird for the practice and will comment accordingly that they think it’s barbaric and/or weird.

    No politics is involved.

    nickwitha_k ,

    Reduction in STIs

    There is indeed an upside, though in my opinion, it does not justify the amputation of healthy, functional tissue in infants who clearly cannot consent to it and condoms are readily available even for these with allergies to natural latex rubber.

    The most recent studies that I’ve read did elucidate a likely mechanism too. Making the glans an external organ, rather than be protected by the foreskin, causes the development of keratinous tissue (literally called “horny” tissue) on the glans in order to protect it from the environment, rubbing against clothing, etc. Effectively, it becomes callused. The horny layers are composed of dead and denucleated cells, creating a physical barrier that bacteria and viruses must pass in order to infect the underlying cells.

    Note, though, that there were three studies conducted in Africa on the impact of male circumcision that was/is cited on HIV prevention that are so blatantly terrible tha PLoS Med and the Lancet, along with whatever IRB was in charge ought to see reparitive and punitive fines brought against them. The studies show extraordinarily poor study design, data collection, data analysis, and alarming degrees of multiple biases. The issues include, among others:

    • All HIV infections were assumed to be sexually transmitted and the result of heterosexual intercourse (bizarre assumptions). Conservative estimates from follow-up research puts the percentage at only 43.1% of the infection from all three studies being sexual transmission, with no extant data or tracking on partners involved. Due to not accounting for the vector of infection, it is impossible to draw the causative relationship that the researchers claim.
    • Improper controls: The test group were given sexual education around STI transmission and proper condom use. The control group were not.
    • Lead-time bias: Data collection began immediately, despite researchers instructing the study group not to have intercourse for 6-8 weeks and likely discomfort with intercourse and increased condom use occuring in some who undergo adult male circumcision up to 12 weeks following the procedure.
    • Attrition bias: Significantly more subjects dropped out of the studies than became infected, which was not accounted for appropriately, corrupting the dataset used for analysis.
    • Duration bias: The PLoS Med study was planned to take 21 months of data but only ran for 14 months. The Lancet studies (near identical to each other) lasted 24 months. Neither is sufficient to either remove tye statistical significance of the lead-time bias, nor to provide objective long-term efficacy rates for an irreversible treatment.
    • Expectation bias: A number of principal investigators involved in the studies had previously publicly called for mass circumcision campaigns. This alone is a major red flag that should have resulted in more critical review of the study protocols and required that they, at the very least, mak, clear disclosures of their personal biases but, to have actually trustworthy results, they should have had no role in data analysis due to clear lack of objectivity.

    Referenced studies:

    • PLoS Med 2: e298. doi: 10.1371/journal.pmed.0020298
    • Lancet 2007;369:657–66
    • Lancet 2007; 369:643–56
    skulblaka ,
    @skulblaka@startrek.website avatar

    It feels like a… trojan issue

    😎👉👉

    TokenBoomer ,

    It should be an individual’s choice as to whether you chop off part of their dick, not society’s.

    iorale ,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    TokenBoomer ,

    Sorry. Didn’t realize you were uncircumcised.

    Kusimulkku ,

    What is foreskin if not part of your dick?

    Kusimulkku ,

    It’s a non-issue

    Right to one’s own body and doing cosmetic or religious surgery on kids: non-issue

    Lol

    iorale ,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    moon ,

    Preconception is a powerful drug. There’s really no way you could have worded that in a way they wouldn’t get emotionally charged over. It’s just the simple fact they have a strong opposing view point so they’ll read something completely different so it makes sense with their thinking.

    Kusimulkku ,

    It was just an incredibly poor phrasing or word choice if they didn’t want to call it circumcision a non-issue. Happens.

    Kusimulkku ,

    What did you mean was a non-issue if you weren’t talking about the circumcision done on kids?

    BoxerDevil ,

    Same

    TokenBoomer ,

    Strong “my parents beat me and I turned out okay, so I beat my kids” vibes.

    BoxerDevil ,

    Strong “I judge others for even disciplining their kids” vibes

    TokenBoomer ,

    You are correct. Society should judge parents who abuse their children. I will never regret that judgement, because I live in this society too.

    moon ,

    Sure, but there wasn’t any abuse listed in this discussion, so it’s strange you brought it up.

    TokenBoomer ,

    Yes, strange…

    turkalino ,
    @turkalino@lemmy.yachts avatar

    You’re comparing a one-time event to a childhood of trauma

    TokenBoomer ,

    Wrong. I’m not comparing. I’m saying there is a lack of critical thinking and education in both instances.

    TseseJuer ,

    ok boomer

    TokenBoomer ,

    Ok tsese

    TseseJuer ,

    typical boomer

    slackassassin ,

    They made a bad comparison, I agree. But a lot of things are “one-time events” that have lifelong implications. That’s a garbage argument.

    TokenBoomer ,

    “I love my parents , even though they were too ignorant to think for themselves,” is how genital mutilation perpetuates. People need to be held accountable for not questioning inane rituals and traditions. Education, not mutilation.

    RubberElectrons ,
    @RubberElectrons@lemmy.world avatar

    Shut the fuck up, low quality clown. Education is me not doing this to my kids.

    Please learn how to read.

    TokenBoomer , (edited )

    It doesn’t read that way. It reads as ambivalence to circumcision. Maybe learn how to write.

    RubberElectrons ,
    @RubberElectrons@lemmy.world avatar

    “I don’t care”, followed by: “I won’t do that to my kids”

    Clown: “ambivalent, learn how to write”.

    Coupla corn dogs short of a circus, there.

    TokenBoomer ,

    I don’t really care.

    ambivalence noun am·​biv·​a·​lence am-ˈbi-və-lən(t)s 1 : simultaneous and contradictory attitudes or feelings (such as attraction and repulsion) toward an object, person, or action felt ambivalence toward his powerful father ambivalence toward marriage 2 a : continual fluctuation (as between one thing and its opposite) b : uncertainty as to which approach to follow ambivalence about their goals

    I don’t care; sounds like ambivalence to me.

    Notorious_handholder , (edited )

    Dude… You’re acting like you’re a wrench short of a full toolbox. Obviously meant he doesn’t care that he personally was circumcised. But he does care enough that he won’t do it to his kids.

    I.E. He’s accepted the fact that what happened was in the past and he can’t change it, so no use crying about it especially when it has not effected the use of his member in any negative way. But he can change what happens in the future for his kids by not doing that to them and letting them have a choice when they’re older.

    If the guy was actually ambivalent he would just go along with continuing to allow his own kids to be circumcised and/or have no opinion of the procedure. Or he would dislike the procedure but allow it to happen anyways because of tradition or something.

    Stop being obtuse and ignorant. Though having said that I now feel like you’ll come at me with the mathematical definition of obtuse to try and use petty semantics to make yourself feel better

    TokenBoomer ,

    Words matter.

    brick ,

    Yeah, my parents didn’t do it, and I ended up getting phimosis in my early twenties and having to get it done then.

    On the one hand I do appreciate that they left it up to me, but on the other hand it was intense pain for a couple of weeks and at the time I was really wishing that they had just gotten it out of the way.

    For me, it’s a wash. That may or may not be typical but it’s probably slightly better that they left me the choice? Can’t put the foreskin back on the penis I guess.

    My son was born with hypospadias, so I didn’t really have a choice with him. Had to get it done or he would be peeing out of the bottom of his dick forever, which saved me and my wife a difficult decision.

    All of this said though, I personally prefer being circumcised. Cleaning is way way easier, and in my own personal experience I have a lot more sensitivity when doing anything fun with my hog. My partners have also preferred it, and some of them shared with me that they had previously gotten UTIs from uncircumcised partners.

    Like I said, I appreciate that my parents left it up to me, but at the same time I think the genital mutilation trope is way overblown in the majority of cases. Not all of course.

    Serinus ,

    For me, it’s a wash.

    It’s certainly close enough that we shouldn’t be trying to butt into other people’s lives over it.

    You should need a strong reason to have the state invade people’s lives. This ain’t it. I wouldn’t pierce my baby’s ears either, but I’m not looking to put anyone in prison over it.

    KairuByte ,
    @KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    Oh, so you’re good with female circumcision then? Since we shouldn’t be trying to butt into other people’s lives?…

    moon ,

    I love when this topic comes up because people definitely don’t have a weird fixation on foreskin and totally have balanced discussions that calmly hears both sides.

    Buffaloaf ,

    Seriously, why does this come up so often on Lemmy?

    robocall ,
    @robocall@lemmy.world avatar

    no one should mutilate a baby’s genitalia. I guess some people feel strongly about breaking the tradition.

    nomous ,

    Why are people so upset about cutting baby dicks wtf it’s up to the parents obviously?

    IMO we should just go ahead and gauge his little ears too, dad has gauged ears, we want them to look the same.

    Mom has full sleeve tattoos so we’re thinking maybe he’d look cool with some fresh ink too?

    slackassassin , (edited )

    Just cut the dicks already! God, why is this a debate, cut the dicks and be happy about it. A baby is born, and you cut its dick. It’s tradition.

    How else do you keep it from having to wash it and wear a condom. It won’t have to do any of that if you just cut its dick!

    Perfectly normal, very chill. Slash that dick up asap or you’re just a weirdo. /s

    CurlyMoustache ,
    @CurlyMoustache@lemmy.world avatar

    Not a fixation on foreskins but on personal freedoms and the right to choose what happens to your own body:

    Are you an adult? Cut off what ever part of your body you want to. I don’t care.

    Are you an adult who wants to cut of body parts from others? No. Stop it. Let them decided themselves when they are old enough.

    moon ,

    If you intentionally do not recognize it as a legitimate medical procedure with lots of science backed behind it, then you’re purposefully spreading misinfo. That’s just a fact. Just like how some people in this thread are saying it reduces sexual pleasure, scientific evidence states this is not true. It’s also significantly safer and less risk when they’re a baby. These are just peer-reviewed objective facts that have been extensively tested and confirmed.

    stacks.cdc.gov/view/cdc/58456/cdc_58456_DS1.pdf

    TseseJuer ,

    you’re an idiot and so is anyone that agrees to circumcision for an infant.

    moon ,

    Very level headed statement after being shown evidence

    ASeriesOfPoorChoices ,

    lol ‘evidence’

    Jax ,

    I’ve been reading your comments, it’s amazing how someone can link an article to 37 grown men voluntarily circumcising themselves and use that as evidence towards why children would like to be circumcised.

    You fucking dumb my guy.

    TokenBoomer ,

    Or a lobbyist for big foreskin.

    Sunfoil ,

    Haha the irony of you coming out so strongly after your original statement is gold.

    moon ,

    Not really, I’m open to seeing any evidence as to why the CDC is factually wrong.

    Sunfoil ,

    Don’t ask me, I think we should just cut the whole thing off.

    trolololol ,

    Hey, as long as you own what you’re cutting I’m cool

    Sunfoil ,

    No. All of 'em. Americans do go far enough. Everyone should walk around with little nubs.

    ASeriesOfPoorChoices ,

    lol ‘facts’

    Jax ,

    “You know, I’m really tired of having to clean my nails and trim them. I know, I should just cut my fucking fingertips off. That way I don’t have to worry about pesky things like dirt or germs living under the nails!”

    ASeriesOfPoorChoices ,

    it’s absolutely amazing. what a cockgoblin.

    a_wild_mimic_appears ,

    ignoring bodily autonomy and the right for your OWN CHILD to choose what their penis will look like for a medical procedure that only should be used when a phimosis diagnosis has been made or when you join specific religions (and not for “so he looks like dad” or “my religions imaginary friend collects foreskins of infants”)

    moon ,

    It’s kind of you to worry about the aesthetics of your child’s penis, which studies have shown that it improves body image and sexual satisfaction anyways. You should really leave the medical suggestions to the professionals. There’s so much anti-science in this thread going on, I’d assume that I was in a crazy 5G anti vax conspiracy bullshit forum. What is it about medical scientific evidence that makes people so upset? All I’m doing is repeating and sharing established medical studies after all, but apparently that makes people a little emotional. Kind of like vaccinations!

    a_wild_mimic_appears ,

    this is NOT about aesthetics. this is about robbing a child of a deeply personal choice.

    moon ,

    Suppose we should just not name children until they’re old enough to choose their own name too. We’re talking about some fuckin skin on the tip of the dick lol. Most will never even know the difference until they go see it in a health class or Google what the differences even look like.

    What are the pros and cons here again? The cons of the situation is that they might end up wanting some extra skin at the tip of the dick for whatever reason. The pros is health and self confidence improvement. The pros outweigh the cons here, it’s a no brainer. It’s a simple medical procedure has been factually proven to improve health and self confidence, and it’s by far the safest to perform on a new born.

    CurlyMoustache ,
    @CurlyMoustache@lemmy.world avatar

    This is the most idiotic thing I’ve ever read. They can change their name if they want to. How old they have to be is different from country to country.

    Equating naming a child with cutting off stuff from their bodies is fucking stupid.

    a_wild_mimic_appears ,

    thanks for writing down what i was thinking lol

    Boldizzle ,
    @Boldizzle@lemmy.world avatar

    I had to laugh when they used naming a child as an example. What a dipshit.

    a_wild_mimic_appears ,

    like @CurlyMoustache said: names can be changed. and if your confidence is based on a mutilated sexual organ, then go cut yourself as much as you like, but leave others alone. don’t do something irreversible to someone without their consent.

    KillingTimeItself ,

    i dont like my given birth name, i could legally change if it i please. In fact i don’t like the concept of legal names much at all, but thats a different story.

    Lets throw in some similar cases here. Ear lobes, why not just chop those off at birth? They dangle around weirdly and are places to put jewelry. Which can cause injury.

    Ever heard of scarification? It’s like a tattoo, but subtractive instead of additive.

    You ever heard of penile subincision? You just yeet a massive slit into the bottom of the penis, that leads into the urethra.

    Why not just do those things to children upon birth?

    lud ,

    Multilating childrens genitals for appearance is pretty fucked up.

    That choice should be left to themselves and no one else. Unless absolutely necessary of course.

    The supposed benefits are very very small and the majority of the world is doing absolutely fine without removing the foreskin of children.

    moon ,

    Maybe go back and read all the text you ignored about the other benefits. Would love to see you link any established peer-reviewed studies that can back up your neanderthal level reading comprehension.

    calcopiritus ,

    I don’t give a fuck about those “benefits” which have miniscule impact and can absolutely be achieved by means other than cutting a baby’s foreskin.

    Adults can cut their dick off if they want, surely a lot of men would do it if those benefits are so impressive.

    Parents should not have the freedom to mutilate their babies because they say so. Only if a doctor recommends it because of an actual disease (phimosis or whatever).

    That is basic ethics. Don’t make unneeded permanent choices for a baby. If it is a decision that can easily wait until the baby is an adult, it is evil to make it for them.

    chetradley ,

    Honest question, did you read this study before you posted it? The sample size is 37 Turkish men who voluntarily applied for circumcision. Do you not find that sample to be extremely small? Don’t you think there would be some inherent bias when assessing the psychological effect in people who had chosen to undergo the procedure? If anything, this study reinforces that circumcision should be left to the individual to choose, rather than having the procedure done against their will as an infant.

    lightnsfw ,

    That’s a study of 30 turkish dudes…

    Soggytoast ,

    When my son (2) was born there was decent pressure to circumcise, we were asked leading up to birth, before birth at hospital many times, and many times after.

    I’m sure there’s plenty of single mothers who don’t know any better and just eventually agree. I’ve been told hospitals sell the cut off for woman’s make up stuff

    Railing5132 ,

    I don’t know where you’re from, but in the US, hospitals are strictly forbidden from doing anything with biological material post-procedure except 1) biopsy, 2) disposing it in accordance with biohazard containment practices, or 3) limited instances of release to the patient (think kidney stone).

    Nobody is selling infants foeskins for makeup. That’s fucking stupid conspiracy bullshit.

    TokenBoomer ,

    But do they charge for the procedure?

    Soggytoast ,

    www.allohealth.care/…/do-hospitals-sell-foreskin

    reddit.com/…/what_do_you_think_hospitals_do_with_…

    Doesn’t seem like bullshit, however it is used for more than make up, like skin grafts and bio science. Apparently Oprah Famously said she uses a cream with foreskin in it

    Railing5132 ,

    Ah, let’s see… An SEO article from a clinic in India about the possibilities of what can be done (with absolutely zero citations), a reddit thread and the Coup de Grace, Oprah, who famously gave us “Dr.” Oz. I’m gonna go ahead and not choose to give a bunch of credibility to those sources.

    CurlyMoustache ,
    @CurlyMoustache@lemmy.world avatar

    Sure. As I said: adults can cut of anything they want. Babies cannot decide for themselves. It is immoral and barbaric to cut of parts from the bodies of babies.

    Condoms gives insanely more protection than a circumcised penis. The health benefits are therefore just a fart in the wind and should not be used as a an argument for cutting people without their consent. Teach healthy sex practices in schools

    lightnsfw ,

    That document is regarding the spread of STIs. There’s plenty of other methods to avoid those that don’t involve cutting part of your dick off.

    elucubra ,

    Like washing?

    mishielda1234 ,

    Cum, I love how your replies are more than happy to pick apart your sources without providing any of their own. A casual scroll through the other comments will reveal that most people who weren’t circumcized at birth have issues with it or regret having to have the procedure done later in life.

    There’s a reason the procedure is so ubiquitous for so long, the science and health research is there to prove it. Same way getting vaccines is mandatory in the US for going to school. Same way abortion would be if politicians didn’t keep getting involved in legitimate medical research. These procedures have been studied and peer reviewed for decades by experts, best leave it to them. hopkinsmedicine.org/…/greater-benefits-of-infant-…

    If you want to have a real argument with myself and cum (lmao) bring your own sources and maybe other people will take you seriously.

    moon ,

    Exactly, you get it lol. This is a funny topic because you can simply drop a fact sheet by medical professionals that all overwhelmingly agree on this topic, and then people will lose their mind. That’s why I’m only interested in looking for scientifically backed viewpoints instead of people getting so emotional. Reality disagrees with their traditions so they really hate it.

    TokenBoomer ,

    Findings from the University of Sydney suggest that around 38% of the male population globally is circumcised.

    Circumcision is the exception. I’m sure the 60% of uncircumcised men across the world live tortured lives. Source

    moon ,

    And?

    TokenBoomer ,

    And you’re profoundly misinformed

    moon ,

    How is listening to the CDC being misinformed lol

    TokenBoomer ,

    The new CDC guidelines highlight methodologically flawed studies from Africa that have no relevance to the United States. They chose to ignore studies that were conducted in the United States and show no link between circumcision and the risk of sexually transmitted diseases, including HIV (Thomas et al., 2004).

    Media literacy necessitates consideration of opposing viewpoints from reputable sources. Not all “experts” agree with the CDC. Source.

    moon ,

    Of course they don’t. Still, the CDC is very reputable and I trust them over it. It’s also ridiculous to say the CDC is misinformation.

    TokenBoomer ,

    I didn’t say the CDC is misinformation, just that other scientists have shown the flaws in their methodology. Science. I have a healthy uncircumcised son. I would have circumcised him at birth if the science warranted it. It does not. If parents circumcise for religious reasons that’s their choice. But it must be recognized that the science used to validate this religious belief is weak.

    UnPassive ,

    Science is different than peer reviewed science. The STI study has some big problems (especially moral problems) - one practical problem though is the hiv test in the study isn’t accurate for some time (3 months I think) and that messes with their data and wasn’t accounted for properly (some test candidates definitely had HIV before the study). Another huge oversight was that a freshly cut man isn’t going to have sex for weeks while he heals, deceasing the chances of contracting HIV. Another sign that something is wrong is European countries that have less HIV than the USA. But even if it was guaranteed that you contact HIV 10% less often if circumcised, that’s still not even close to a good enough benefit to justify the procedure.

    The “data” on why circumcision is beneficial is mostly just cut men trying to justify why they’re superior and is biased. The sensitivity being the same claims are silly. Studies done are controversial because measuring sensitivity is hard. A big red flag is reading testimants of adults who got cut - usually they say it was super painful while healing, then crazy sensitive, underwear was uncomfortable and they had trouble lasting during sex. But a couple years later and they’d lost sensitivity. Underwear feels fine, refactory period goes up. This is because of keratinization of the glans of the penis. Similar to a callous on skin tissue

    systemglitch ,

    I’m so glad it was done to me when I was a baby. 100% the proper way to do it.

    Belgdore ,

    Why is this a both sides thing? Circumcision is a Jewish rite that became a larger thing because of a couple mentions in the Christian New Testament. It also has some medical application for individuals with certain conditions.

    Doing it to all male babies doesn’t make rational sense unless you are a specific type of religious.

    mishielda1234 ,

    While circumcision has been a Jewish tradition historically, it has come a long way since then. There are decades of medical research and studies that prove that it is a safe procedure for newborns and bring numerous benefits later in life. Please trust the science and not the religious rhetoric.

    FonsNihilo ,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    elucubra ,

    I’m intact. I don’t have to wash my dick hard, just pull the foreskin and wash. If anything I wash it more gently because it’s more sensitive.

    FonsNihilo ,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    theluckyone ,

    I spend as much time washing my armpits as I do under my foreskin. Roll it back, quick lather and rinse, and done.

    Even if I’m camping for days at a time, away from running water, a quick wipe down with plain water and a wash cloth keeps the smell and smegma away.

    mishielda1234 ,

    This is in my other comment: hopkinsmedicine.org/…/greater-benefits-of-infant-…

    Belgdore ,

    A commentary text from over a decade ago on one study that shows a slight decrease in STIs or their symptoms is not qualitative proof.

    Cockmaster6000 ,

    Jewish doctor promotes routine infant circumcision, this and more tonight at 11.

    the_brownie ,

    I think part of the problem with this discussion is that a lot of us who were circumcised without consent spend most of our early years thinking it’s normal and there is nothing to be upset about. So when people point out the practice is generally very harmful, it is upsetting. It can be hard to process at first, and I think, unfortunately, some people double down on traditional rationalizations as a defense mechanism.

    That being said, I am not a fan of people referring to my genitalia as mutilated/mangled or to me as damaged. It is completely valid to be upset about having your foreskin removed without your consent, but I feel sometimes people veer a little too far in projecting their own hurt onto others. Many people live fulfilling lives with circumcised penises, and some even do it by choice, so, speaking strictly for myself, I generally am glass half-full about it.

    greywolf0x1 ,

    Yeah, I think since the practice is based on organized religion and there’s no consent when circumcised, the validity of circumcision is quite questionable.

    But, medically speaking, is circumcision harmful?

    That’s a genuine question and I see a lot of uncircumcised people complain about phimosis and the skin flap getting tighter and more uncomfortable as they grow older, being cut sounds better.

    S_204 ,

    But, medically speaking, is circumcision harmful?

    Seems to be among the hysterical crowd who’s not actually familiar with the medical opinions on this topic. Not surprising.

    Oddly, I happen to know a plastic surgeon who performs the procedure in my city, he’s apparently the go to guy for it so when given the opportunity to talk about children’s genitals I just had to take it up with him…he told me, to my surprise that the vast bulk of his patients now are recently immigrated from Africa. Wasn’t expecting that, was more just curious how much bullshit he got on a day to day basis given his specialty.

    KillingTimeItself ,

    last i checked according to the ole reliable wikipedia, circumcision is still pretty big in other parts of the world, notably africa iirc.

    Society is weird.

    S_204 ,

    It’s odd to me, and the specialist that the majority of his work now involves African people rather than the clientele he’s been working with for the past 30ish years of his practice was the point he emphasized.

    KillingTimeItself ,

    yeah, it’s a fair observation, i just felt the need to mention that for some reason. Often times weird things have fairly simple explanations.

    EndlessApollo , (edited )

    It can be very very harmful, with pretty much no benefits. The claim that it helps prevent spread of sti’s is thoroughly debunked, and a person’s risk of getting penile cancer is way lower than the risk of complications from circumcision. The claim that is easier as a baby is also VERY thoroughly bullshit, on account of a baby’s foreskin is literally attached to their penis and has to be ripped away. All that pain and risk and long-term damage for basically nothing, it’s kinda fucked up that it’s still as common as it is

    Dkarma ,

    Your entire post is simply false and outright misinformation.

    Absolutely nothing you said is even remotely true.

    Shame on you.

    Randomgal ,

    Be careful not to offer too much evidence with your dramatic accusations.

    Dkarma ,
    1. Kids can’t consent. Parents do it for them in every aspect. This is no different. Making medical decisions for your kids is normal.
    2. You have no reason to be bitter about a legitimate pre emptive procedure to prevent smegma and potential phimosis
    3. Male circ is a safe and sometimes necessary procedure.
    4. Why cant you people be honest? You’re bitter we get it. But lying about circumcision is just stupid and doesn’t convince anyone to not do it.
    5. Everyone should Google phimosis. Anti circ ppl love to lie about there being no medical reason or excuse it away.
    6. It’s none of your business what other people do with their bodies.
    7. There is nothing harmful here at all. It’s no different than removing a skin tag. Demonizing it is laughable.
    CaptnNMorgan ,

    Google says phimosis is fixed easily and is rare to begin with. I think being passionate on either side is silly

    TokenBoomer ,

    Harming babies unnecessarily tends to bring out passion in some.

    CaptnNMorgan ,

    I’m circumcised and happy about it because of conversations I’ve had various women about dicks in general and my dick in particular with a few of them. That being said if I ever have a son, he won’t be circumcised. Unless his mom is Jewish I guess. But I don’t understand the anger around the subject at all.

    TokenBoomer ,

    I’m circumcised, my son is not. If it is your religion, have at it. But forcing religious traditions onto those that don’t have a say is problematic. It’s getting better, but it’s still pushed in hospitals unnecessarily.

    22decembre ,

    It’s good you’re able to talk sanely about it.

    But I don’t understand the anger around the subject at all.

    It’s simply a subject of personal autonomy and body integrity.

    Imagine being a grown man or just a teenager and being forced to perform that operation without your consent nor any explanation (as it’s mostly useless out of social norms and potentially harmful). I guess you’d be furious, at least.

    That’s it.

    CaptnNMorgan ,

    But it’s not happening to grown men or teenagers against their will. It’s happening to people when they won’t remember it and the idea is it prevents minor annoyances about being a man. Archaic and unnecessary? Definitely. But getting mad at people isn’t going to change their mind and doesn’t help people understand it’s unnecessary. That said, being someone who has a mentally unhealthy aversion to bathing, I’m really glad I don’t have to even think about “smegma” I didn’t even know it was a thing until I was fully grown.

    Edit: to be clear, I don’t think anyone should do that to their kids. If you can’t teach your kid to clean themselves you probably shouldn’t have them to begin with. I just think it’s more helpful for future kids if their parents aren’t circumcising them because they don’t want to agree with the annoying angry people online. It would be more helpful to spread knowledge without judgement or making people feel shameful for something they thought was good. That’s how you get people to double down.

    slackassassin ,

    This is the dumbest fucking list of bullshit

    1. Kids can’t consent. Eyup.
    2. Cutting of a body part to avoid cleaning it is a unique kind of stupid argument.
    3. Nobody is against it when it’s necessary. That’s what is known as a strawman argument.
    4. No one is lying. You are the one trying to convince someone to do something. Not doing anything is the fucking default.
    5. Again, addressing phimosis is NOT the issue people are against.
    6. Babies are not capable of doing anything to their bodies.
    7. It can absolutely be harmful and comparing the removal of nerves and tissue from genitalia to a skin tag is so stupid that I actually think you’re trolling.
    Dkarma ,

    You’re being 100% dishonest and misinformative in your post.

    Why u guys gotta double down on your complete lies when called out?
    It’s pathetic. Mind u own business and cope with ur sad doggy penis.

    slackassassin ,

    Lol. This mf here getting their bs called out point by point with simple rhetorical counters and retorts with a solid “No u. And you have a dumb pee pee.” Epic.

    the_brownie ,

    Thanks for this lol. I started to respond yesterday but as I was thinking about their arguments halfway through I decided it wasn’t worth my time or energy (validated by their response to this comment LOL).

    slackassassin ,

    This mf both sidesing cutting baby dicks, smdh.

    dipshit ,

    Genital mutilation under the guise of “easier to clean” is stupid. Cutting off your legs also makes them easier to clean.

    UnderpantsWeevil ,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    I’ve seen people lose their shit over babies with pierced ears and young children getting tattoos. There’s all sorts of dental work you go through as a kid that you have functionally no control over.

    Even had someone chew me out because a foster kid I was taking care of got a haircut (three years old and she’d literally never had one before).

    At some point, it is the parent’s duty to take care of the child, and that extends to medical decisions with profound long-term consequences. I get wanting to change the culture, but the degree to which people exaggerate the harm of circumcision struggles to eclipse the degree to which it is defended.

    Cutting off your legs also makes them easier to clean.

    There is some substantive utility to legs that doesn’t extend to the bit of flesh around the tip of your dick.

    dipshit ,

    Yeah but as a dad, i don’t like legs. I want my kid to look like me. I was amputated voluntarily. Legs get dirty anyway.

    Actually, why not just cut off the penis and replace it with a tube? That’s a lot cleaner and still functional!

    UnderpantsWeevil ,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    Yeah but as a dad, i don’t like legs.

    Correlating ear-piercing with decapitation, and holding a picket in front of “Forever 21” with a big sign that reads “STOP MURDERING CHILDREN” and a picture of a tunnel drill going through a baby’s forehead.

    dipshit ,

    Are you confident you understand what gentials are?

    What about your understanding of consent?

    UnderpantsWeevil ,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    Are you confident you understand what gentials are?

    Its when you’re not jewish.

    dipshit ,

    Yes, you are correct. Only jewish people have genitals. Thank you for playing.

    UnderpantsWeevil ,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    Only jewish people have genitals.

    I’m sorry, what’s up bro?

    dipshit ,

    Besides autocorrect spelling genitals gentials, not much, bro.

    physicswizard ,

    I think they’re trying to make a pun based on how the word “gentile” (which literally means not jewish) sounds very similar to “genital”.

    dipshit ,

    Yeah, I got it thanks. I wish my autocorrect wouldn’t interject itself into conversations but here we are.

    Good laugh. 10/10 would laugh again.

    HelloHotel , (edited )
    @HelloHotel@lemmy.world avatar

    If this is /s its verry funny and asys somthing interesting, im frustrated that the thread has fallen into a false dichotomy,

    Its not ‘not okay’ in the same way its ‘not okay’ to cut off someones leg because thats unamniguiosly being crippled. (Good spoof though!) its amniguiosly immoral.

    dipshit ,

    Yeah a better analogy would probably be female genital mutilation but americans generally aren’t familiar with that.

    The real issue is consent. I get that parents consent for their children, but that doesn’t mean the parents are correctly predicting the kid’s preferences.

    It’s just a strange practice that we do in america, not due to religion, but due to … reasons? Cleanliness? “I want my son’s cock to look like mine?” it’s weird as hell, but accepted for some stupid reason.

    HelloHotel , (edited )
    @HelloHotel@lemmy.world avatar

    female genital mutilation

    okay… wow.

    circumcision is a harder to understand, wrapped in the cloak of medical hospitality to be blunt, its a different form of female genital mutilation.

    I believe its a remnant from old Christianity (Judaism?), where it would mark and/or purify the child in some way. If I’m not mistaken, the god of Abraham communicated that things like sacrificing lambs and other rituals isn’t useful as a sign of good will.

    but yet this literally unholy practice remains to this day.

    to be absolutely fair, mom said yes, telling me the doctors said there was some kind of health benefit, somthing about infections.

    dipshit ,

    A benefit that no one can seem to articulate, to this day.

    HelloHotel ,
    @HelloHotel@lemmy.world avatar

    Yeah, pretty sus

    MTK ,

    Honestly, can you elaborate on what would be a justified reason to do it?

    UnderpantsWeevil ,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    I mentioned in another comment how circumcision dramatically reduces the rate of spread of STDs. That is, at least from my perspective, the primary (and original) incentive to circumcise. Significantly less of an issue now, because you can just get a condom. But in areas where access to a consumer profilactic isn’t readily available or one in which STD infection is high, it would make a great deal of sense to perform the surgery as a preventative measure.

    Same as giving your kid vaccine shots or putting them in the NICU for the first few weeks of their life or demanding that they wash their hands regularly.

    Cockmaster6000 ,

    I’m sorry, cutting off a newborn’s foreskin is the same as washing their hands?

    Did you eat a lot of paint chips growing up?

    GreyEyedGhost ,

    I don’t think this is the original reason, but it has been found to happen. Also, your risk of penile cancer goes to almost zero, as well as fewer and less serious complications related to the foreskin (or its absence). Going fully nude while circumcised is a dangerous game, though.

    MTK ,

    Source?

    GreyEyedGhost ,

    Here’s what the CDC had to say about their original statements and a rebuttal to criticisms about circumcision. It only obliquely mentions genital cancer, but this article specifically discusses that.

    LillyPip , (edited )

    circumcision dramatically reduces the rate of spread of STDs

    Source? Most of the world doesn’t circumcise, and they don’t have a higher prevalence of STDs than places that do. As long as you practice good hygiene, there should be no issues.

    That is, at least from my perspective, the primary (and original) incentive to circumcise

    No it wasn’t. It originated thousands of years ago as a Jewish religious ritual, that had no biological or scientific basis. It was popularised in the US about 100 years ago as a way to reduce sensation in the penis in order to stop teenage boys from masturbating – by Dr Kellogg, for the same reason he invented cornflakes. He was hyper-religious and fixated on stopping boys corrupting themselves by masturbating. The hygiene myths came later and have been debunked.

    It’s an outdated practice based on bad science and beliefs that should stop. That’s not to say anyone should feel bad for having done it when we didn’t really know better, but there’s no reason to continue doing it now.

    e: missed a word

    Emerald ,

    I agree with all that except for one thing. Kellogg did not invent corn flakes to stop people from masturbating. He did mention once that a bland diet could be used to deter masturbation, but there is no coorelation to corn flakes.

    LillyPip , (edited )

    He did, though. I currently live less than an hour from his museum in Battle Creek, Michigan, and there are lots of things about him that aren’t widely shared on the internet.

    Did you know that one of his biggest accomplishments was a foster home for orphans that was destroyed by fire? Running that foster home was what inspired his obsession with a bland diet and with circumcision. He was very strict with their diet, believing certain grains would purify the soul (first oatmeal) – the original, unadulterated grains that were mentioned in the bible. The boys in his home weren’t accepting of his extreme version of Christianity, and he thought that was mostly because they were corrupting themselves bodily. He thought all boys weren’t receptive to Christianity because they were too into their own desires, and he could fix that. First by diet, and when that didn’t work, by cutting off the part of their penis that distracted them by making them feel good, thus tempting them from god’s word. He was a doctor, so people listened.

    This is all Wikipedia dedicates to that part of the story:

    Kellogg was outspoken about his views on race and his belief in racial segregation, regardless of the fact that he himself raised several black foster children.

    So it’s understandable people are downplaying that part of his life. If you live near here, you know the details the internet has mostly forgotten.

    We really need to stop chopping up infant boys based on the ideas of a bigoted religious fundamentalist.

    e: clarity

    el_abuelo ,

    Not so dramatically you can not wear a condom. So given you’re going to strap up anyway, what’s the benefit to having surgery on your genitals?

    UnderpantsWeevil ,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    CDC has a whole thing on it

    Circumcised men compared with uncircumcised men have also been shown in clinical trials to be less likely to acquire new infections with syphilis (by 42%), genital ulcer disease (by 48%), genital herpes (by 28% to 45%), and high-risk strains of human papillomavirus associated with cancer (by 24% to 47% percent)

    By all means, you should still wrap that shit. But if you’re living in a rural community or one that has a strong stigma against contraception, or you’re just in a place where the disease is rampant and you need a secondary precautionary policy, this will have a meaningful impact on disease spread.

    el_abuelo ,

    The majority of US citizens do not fall into those categories, and for that reason I see it as an unnecessary procedure that is more cultural than scientific.

    UnderpantsWeevil ,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    The majority of US citizens do not fall into those categories

    They did once, and they very well might in the near future, depending on how we handle legal contraception going forward.

    MTK ,

    As far as I am aware there is only one study done in Africa that showed that there is a correlation between circumcision and a reduced chance to get HIV.

    But that is the only study and only HIV, not all STIs.

    Also this is moot in most of the world where you have access to condoms.

    UnderpantsWeevil ,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    CDC has a whole thing on it

    Circumcised men compared with uncircumcised men have also been shown in clinical trials to be less likely to acquire new infections with syphilis (by 42%), genital ulcer disease (by 48%), genital herpes (by 28% to 45%), and high-risk strains of human papillomavirus associated with cancer (by 24% to 47% percent)

    By all means, you should still wrap that shit. But if you’re living in a rural community or one that has a strong stigma against contraception, or you’re just in a place where the disease is rampant and you need a secondary precautionary policy, this will have a meaningful impact on disease spread.

    MTK ,

    Still not really reasonable, especially considering that for the most part this decision can just wait until adulthood

    JasonDJ ,

    Foster kid is a different situation but in general seriously don’t bring someone else’s kid to their first haircut. Thats an important moment for parents. It’s a major milestone, especially with girls. That original in-utero hair behaves different.

    Three years isn’t that weird. I know a girl who was 4 for her first. She had the most gorgeous, long curls. It was really hard for her mom to get rid of those.

    Know a couple boys who were each three too. They look like totally different kids once they lost all their baby curls.

    Mediocre_Bard ,

    Being able to turn the end of my dick into a water balloon is all the substantive utility I require, sir.

    UnderpantsWeevil ,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    A perk of living in a modern world.

    ThatWeirdGuy1001 ,
    @ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world avatar

    What’s even funnier to me is how people will full on rage when someone brings up female genital mutilation while in the same breath saying circumcision is fine

    Microw ,

    The main problem is that people tend to intuitively think of the least invasive form of male circumcision and the most horrific form of female genital mutilation.

    For both genders, all kinds of forms exist

    Serinus ,

    the least invasive form of male circumcision

    Is what’s in these discussions.

    the most horrific form of female genital mutilation.

    Is there any other kind in regular discussion? When people refer to FGM, they’re not talking about labiaplasty (which would be a more appropriate comparison).

    KairuByte , (edited )
    @KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    labiaplasty (which would be a more appropriate comparison).

    How are you coming to this conclusion?

    The foreskin has more nerve endings than the glans, and double that of the clitoris. The labia in contrast has much fewer nerve endings, which is why sexual stimulation is not easily accomplished with simply stimulating the labia. Possible? Yes. But not nearly to the same degree as clitoral stimulation.

    Edit: Given the lack of elaboration, I’ll have to assume the conclusions reached by a gut reaction of “skin is skin” which is not at all how this works.

    Cockmaster6000 ,

    A labiaplasty is not equivalent to removal of the foreskin. It would be like removing the clitoral hood. Educate yourself before sharing your thoughts please.

    TheGrandNagus , (edited )

    People will defend the most batshit insane things just because they’re used to it.

    But I also think there’s an element of (understandable) insecurity to it.

    If they concluded that mutilating the penises of babies is wrong, then that makes their penis “wrong”, and society is really weird and judgemental about penises. There’s a huge amount of pressure applied to men about their genitals.

    We constantly talk about big dicks and “big dick” energy. Casually saying someone has a small, soft, or ugly dick is seen as a scathing insult, we constantly mock people for it, both in life and in media. Comments about their penises is something used to build up or knock down men. It’s used to make them feel powerful and manly, or weak and emasculated.

    It’s no wonder people rally so hard against those who want to see an end to male genital mutilation. The very victims of it typically don’t want to feel like their dick is “wrong”, because society at large has told them that if their dick is bad, they aren’t real men.

    Emerald ,

    I think it’s important that circumcised people realize that their body isn’t wrong, but rather the procedure is wrong (without a medically necessary reason).

    LillyPip ,

    People will defend the most batshit insane things just because they’re used to it.

    ITT…

    LillyPip , (edited )

    Dude, yeah. It’s so weird.

    I refused circumcision for my son (25 years ago, US hospital), and had to remind the staff several times because it was just assumed it would be done. I stopped them 3 times during different shifts when they were about to take him from our room for the procedure.

    Then when it came up in conversation when he was an infant, people would say to me ‘you should have done it’, because he would get infections (he never did), or he’d be bullied in gym showers (he never did to my knowledge), or whatever. My take was it should be his decision, not mine.

    The pressure was really intense, though. It’s weird how interested people can be in someone else’s infant’s penis. We’ve never talked about it, but reading stories from other men, I assume he’s happy being uncut, and I’m glad I didn’t do it.

    e: for anyone reading this days later, I did ask my son for his opinion prompted by this conversation, mostly because of responses I got elsewhere in this thread that made me question my decision:

    Me: Hey man, so feel free not to answer this if it’s too personal, but I was having a debate about circumcision and another parent challenged me saying I’d made the wrong decision. So yes/no/I don’t want to talk about it cuz that’s weird, do you regret my decision?

    Son: I don’t, and none of my partners have, either. I only get thumbs up and compliments. I hope that wasn’t too personal.

    Me: Not at all. Thank you for giving me your and your partners’ review!

    So yeah, it’s not just my assumptions. And no regrets.

    Serinus ,

    My take was it should be his decision, not mine.

    It’s not though. They’ll never be able to go back and have it done as an infant. Time machines don’t exist.

    The procedure is much, much easier as an infant than it is as a boy or teenager or adult.

    I respect whatever decision you made. There are reasons for both. But no, he didn’t have the option to go back and have it done easily.

    And sorry about the pressure. You shouldn’t have to go through that, and I hope/expect that aspect is better after 25 years.

    TseseJuer ,

    every slice and dice would be easier as an infant as you wouldn’t remember it anyway. you’re an idiot

    nomous ,

    Might as well just go ahead and remove their appendix and tonsils too right? They’ll heal right up and won’t remember a thing right?

    LillyPip ,

    Without anaesthesia, too.

    ThatWeirdGuy1001 ,
    @ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world avatar

    I actually think about the ignored psychological effects of dealing with that level of physical pain so soon after being born a lot.

    Birth is already a traumatic experience for both mother and infant. But to then immediately, with no anesthesia, cut an extremely sensitive part of the infants body off? That has to leave some kind of mental scarring.

    sixCats ,

    I think there are studies looking into exactly this, it’s worth looking for

    LillyPip ,

    I can actually speak to this.

    I was born with a genetic condition affecting my collagen (Ehlers Danlos), which meant my bones were overly soft and, since I was breach til moments before birth, my legs were bowed pretty severely. This was in 1971, and the treatment at that time was the doctors literally bent my legs into position manually and then braced them for my first few years. That’s not how they deal with it nowadays, because they learnt it was horribly painful.

    I don’t remember that initial experience, obviously, but my mother tells me several years later when I was a young child and having problems walking, she took me to the doctor and they finally worked out that I was in excruciating pain all the time. They asked why I hadn’t said anything and I told them it was because everyone was always in excruciating pain, but nobody else was complaining about it, so I shouldn’t either. I’d been in pain since birth, and just figured it was normal.

    That experience prevented me from getting proper care and made my early childhood hell. I still have emotional trauma from it. So yeah, early pain is not benign.

    LillyPip ,

    It is. You can always cut something off later, but you can’t just put it back once it’s gone.

    Based on this conversation, I actually asked him:

    Me: Hey man, so feel free not to answer this if it’s too personal, but I was having a debate about circumcision and another parent challenged me saying I’d made the wrong decision. So yes/no/I don’t want to talk about it cuz that’s weird, do you regret my decision?

    Son: I don’t, and none of my partners have, either. I only get thumbs up and compliments. I hope that wasn’t too personal.

    Me: Not at all. Thank you for giving me your and your partners’ review!

    So yeah, no regrets.

    Emerald ,

    he’d be bullied in gym showers

    what? why would people be seeing your kids genitals in a gym shower? That makes no sense

    ThatWeirdGuy1001 , (edited )
    @ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world avatar

    Have you never been in a highschool where using the gym showers was normal?

    Edit: shorts to showers because autocorrect has become dogshit

    Emerald ,

    I’m assuming you mean gym showers and not gym shorts. I still don’t get why someone would see someone elses penis in a gym shower. Unless they peeked into the stall or somathing, but that would be sexual harrassment.

    el_abuelo ,

    You’re forgetting that communal showers is a thing

    Emerald ,

    Wouldn’t they be seperated with stalls? If not that is quite the privacy violation

    ThatWeirdGuy1001 ,
    @ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world avatar

    My middle school gym locker room had completely open showers. Like the kind you see in prison scenes on TV. No dividers. No curtains. Just an open room with a bunch of shower heads

    Emerald ,

    That’s horrifying

    ThatWeirdGuy1001 ,
    @ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world avatar

    You survive in the environment you find yourself in ¯⁠\⁠⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠⁠/⁠¯

    el_abuelo ,

    Bit of an overreaction. Same-sex facility sharing has been a staple part of human society for thousands of years. We seem to have done okay so I’m not too worried or “horrified”. I guess it’s just not something you’ve come across so it seems unusual to you.

    el_abuelo ,

    Depends I guess. They’re cheaper to do the open style so in poor schools and sports facilities you tend to get them.

    If you’ve been fortunate enough to go to decent schools and not played sports outside of well funded institutions then you probably wouldn’t have come across them.

    LillyPip ,

    Not just in poor schools. My area is pretty affluent, but the school was built in the 1940s, and that’s just how it was back then. I went to that high school for a year (I’m 54) and never saw the boys’, but the girls’ was wide open. I assume the boys’ was too.

    Boldizzle ,
    @Boldizzle@lemmy.world avatar

    Where the hell did this infections BS come from? I’ve got mine and have never had any infections or am I just really lucky?

    Sweetpeaches69 ,

    I like mine cut tbh; I think it looks nice.

    Emerald ,

    That’s fine, as long as that isn’t used as a justification to normalize this procedure’s continued use without medical necessity.

    Serinus ,

    I ain’t going around telling anyone how to raise their kids.

    TseseJuer ,

    what does hacking an infant’s wiener up have to do with raising children?

    TheGrandNagus , (edited )

    I mean, people just like what they’re used to.

    If you never got circumcised, you’d likely be saying “I prefer uncut. Looks a bit weird with a piece missing.”

    I’m willing to bet if you surveyed, say, Israel or Saudi Arabia, on what looks better between chopped and natural, they’ll say circumcised. And if you surveyed, say, Australia or Spain, they’ll say uncircumcised looks better.

    trolololol ,

    High five to uncut team

    Maggoty ,

    That wasn’t the original reason. It was to stop masturbation. The whole cleaning thing was a later rationalization when they realized how fucked up it was.

    Daft_ish , (edited )

    Jokes on them. Masterbation has never been in higher demand.

    Digestive_Biscuit ,
    @Digestive_Biscuit@feddit.uk avatar

    Everyone has been side lined by the tobacco industry nobody stopped to look at the moisturiser industry.

    RagingRobot ,

    Yeah instead of doing it at birth they should have done it as a punishment for people who masturbate. That would have worked much better

    Jarix ,

    First I agree with you. Need to say that first.

    If you go back to the beginning of this procedure, how(/if) people cleaned themselves looks very different from. Our modern world.

    Because of that it seems it being a health issue is a lot more likely for the origin of circumscision as a regular societal practice. Even if that was not the main reason but one of the supporting reasons people allowed it to become normalized. The history of hygiene(or the lack there of) is horrifying.

    I mean Lysol was developed as a feminine hygiene product… We have done some very questionable things because of snakeoil practices even in relatively modern times (which i think religion is one of the OG snakeoils)

    What are we doing today that will look as crazy to the people of the future as circumcision does to many of us right now I wonder?

    erasebegin , (edited )

    oh my god, too real 😂 except I was there, my scar is more brutal and I’m all the more stupid for letting it happen. I’ll explain, and I’m going to do so in more detail than I ever have before.

    I was living in China in 2017 and I got an infection on my guy. In hindsight because I had a new girlfriend, was having a lot of sex, and wasn’t cleaning very much. My girlfriend takes me to the local hospital in this “small town” (different meaning in China), and I sit down in front of this miserable looking bloke with a fat, fancy golden wristwatch who says: “你有两个选择 。。。either take this medication and the infection will probably return, or ‘peel skin’ and be free of it forever.”

    I looked at my girlfriend with a grin and asked what she thought would be best. How bad could it be anyway if they do it to babies. Probably like getting your ears pierced.

    She drags her thumb across her throat and screams “off with his head!” or more likely she calmly says “peel skin.” All I remember is that she said it without hesitation. The slimy looking doctor slithers upstairs to the operating room and I get on the table where there’s a large light above my head which, turned off, is acting as a mirror. I can see everything as his assistant passes him the syringe to knock out my guy and then the scalpel to begin the scalping. All I could see was a bloody mess when his phone rang in his pocket. I could smell the blood as his assistant removed the phone from his pocket and answered the call. “They want to speak to you” she said. So the doctor puts the phone between his ear and his shoulder and continues cutting and chatting away. “That’s my dick you prick!”

    The next day my guy is bandaged from head to toe. I tell my girlfriend to stop visiting because every time I get an erection I drop to the floor in writhing pain. Limping along the pavement a group of 80-somethings breeze past me. The pedestrian light goes green and I barely make it to the island in the middle of the road before it goes red again. I lie awake every night, plagued by spontaneous erections and excruciating pain. As the wound healed a grotesque scar formed as a reminder that the body is sacred.

    duffman ,

    Appreciate your story. Sorry for the pain.

    erasebegin ,

    The worst experiences I’ve had in my life always make the best stories 😄

    NigelFrobisher ,

    Always weird to be reminded that the World’s eminent superpower is obsessed with cutting bits off babies’ dicks. But then, maybe that’s the secret behind their economic strength?

    After all, the Romans did some pretty wild stuff, like making their horses generals.

    KuroeNekoDemon ,

    I’m Canadian they do this here as well

    Digestive_Biscuit ,
    @Digestive_Biscuit@feddit.uk avatar

    I didn’t realise you had horse generals.

    FlightyPenguin ,
    @FlightyPenguin@lemmy.world avatar

    I mixed up a few words and in the context interpreted this as “horse genitals”.

    nixcamic ,

    As a Canadian can we try to convince people that this is true about all Canadians.

    Emerald ,

    Omg me too and I didn’t realize it was generals until I read this comment. I need sleep

    Digestive_Biscuit ,
    @Digestive_Biscuit@feddit.uk avatar

    Amazing. That’ll confuse people when dropping a random comment in.

    “My money’s on the blue team. They’re doing really well this season” “I didn’t realise you had horse genitals”

    starman2112 ,
    @starman2112@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Ah, the old Lemmy S-whinny-roo!

    aulin ,

    Yay! I’ve missed this!

    gun ,
    @gun@lemmy.ml avatar

    I mean, the Middle East and Africa have even higher circumcision rates and it doesn’t seem to be working out for them

    Liz ,

    The Romans used to do the opposite, and tie their foreskin shut just to be extra sure no one would see the head of their penis.

    RagingRobot ,

    I bet that made a mess when they peed

    Digestive_Biscuit ,
    @Digestive_Biscuit@feddit.uk avatar

    https://feddit.uk/pictrs/image/843aeec3-d209-4e97-9120-aceba1be6318.webm

    trolololol ,

    Perhaps the next natural step is joining that with their love of firearms. Circumcision by mass shootings or something.

    Mediocre_Bard ,

    Could you still fuck a general? Asking for a hoplite.

    adamantris ,
    @adamantris@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    I am for one happy to be circumcised (i had a really awful, treatment resistant inflammation, circumcision on young people for no reason is shit)

    stoly ,

    I had the same experience. Circumcision made my life so much better.

    SendMePhotos ,

    I am not unhappy to be circumcised. Idk.

    spicytuna62 ,
    @spicytuna62@lemmy.world avatar

    I’m not unhappy about being circumcised, but I’ll never know what it’s like to be uncircumcised, and I’m not not unhappy about that.

    SnipingNinja ,

    Triple negative, that’s a rare one

    corus_kt ,

    I’m in the minority here but I got it done to me as a kid (no choice, barely aware etc) and I’m grateful for it. Just way cleaner overall and no discernible difference - there’s the rumor that it affects sensitivity but I’m just as horny as the rest of the damn men are. Also because I was so young (or maybe the docs at the hospital were skilled), the only scar is a tiny scab on the under side that doesn’t affect anything. I wouldn’t endorse it for children but I can’t argue it was terrible either.

    Nikls94 ,

    I got it done as an adult for medical reasons. I stand fully behind everything you said. But: I don’t have any scar whatsoever

    Darkwatch00 ,

    Have you noticed any loss of sensation compared to before the procedure?

    Nikls94 ,

    Nope, not that I’m aware of.

    TheGrandNagus , (edited )

    Getting it done as an adult is fine. You consented. I’m also fine with piercings or tattoos on adults but not on babies for the same reason. Though that’s a bit of a false equivalence as genital mutilation is more dangerous and less reversible than those other two, so I guess I find them less objectionable, though still fucked up.

    Getting it done out of medical necessity is also fine, for pretty obvious reasons.

    Forcing it upon a baby for no reason isn’t.

    foo ,

    If you wash your dick the cleanliness isn’t a problem

    Also sensitivity has nothing to do with how horny you are.

    corus_kt ,

    I’m not saying cleanliness is a problem, it’s just easier to clean. If you exercise often, it’s easier to maintain a short hairstyle clean than a long one for example.

    ‘Horny’ may have not been the best term to use but I hope the message got across. If I was more sensitive before getting cc’d, then I must have had one hell of a hair trigger

    Mago ,

    Dude, as someone who was cut as an adult (medical reasons) i can tell you that the change in sensitivity is H.U.G.E.

    I have WAY less sensitivity afterwards and it gets worse over time.

    orrk ,

    the reason he mentioned the horny bit was ironically the exact reason this was started in the first place, because the man who tried to make a cereal so boring it would kill morning wood, said it would make people less horny (well not just Kellogg but many others as well)

    TheGrandNagus ,

    Fun fact: the same guy also wanted to burn girls’ clits with acid so they wouldn’t masturbate either, though that didn’t catch on.

    Draedron ,

    Lol how is it cleaner? You just wash your dick and it is clean anyways. You are juat trying to justify it because you dont want to blame your parents for cutting pieces off you to fit their aesthetic.

    TheGrandNagus , (edited )

    It affecting sensitivity is not a rumour, it’s a fact. There are nerve endings in the foreskin. Ergo, it must remove sensitivity. And this can be corroborated by many who get the procedure done as adults.

    And the “way cleaner” thing makes zero sense unless you don’t have access to running water. The world outside of the US + Middle East aren’t walking around with dirty dicks, and if you don’t have running water, all of you will be dirty regardless.

    There are babies in the US that die each year from circumcision complications. It causes pain. It reduces sensitivity. Plenty of them are done "traditionally’ - i.e. without any pain relief or sterilisation. It leaves scars. 5% of circumcisions are botched, sometimes causing pain and discomfort - particularly during sex - for the man’s whole lifetime.

    It’s completely unnecessary, and barbaric.

    The fact that we’re in 2024 and there’s still places out there cutting parts of the dick off of babies as a religious or quasi-religious (in the case of the US) ceremony is crazy.

    corus_kt ,

    Ah, noted. Maybe I was lucky

    blanketswithsmallpox ,

    Your brain compensates for a lot of the missing nerves. Just imagine the orgasm with em all still there lol.

    Mek ,

    It’s “way cleaner” in the same way that spraying fabric freshener on a pair of shit stained underwear is "way cleaner’.

    crazyCat ,

    Why do people downvote you for just sharing your experience in a manner? I’m circumcised too and glad that I am.

    Anyolduser ,

    The more time I spend on Lemmy the more I realize people here are just the worst.

    TheGrandNagus , (edited )

    Those people against genital mutilation of babies are the worst.

    Like who the fuck do they think they are? I can cut whatever I want from babies. I don’t hear them declining consent. Checkmate, infants.

    Anyolduser ,

    I’m against circumcision too.

    I didn’t downvote a guy who had it done to him against his will for sharing his personal experience.

    Streetdog ,

    They are not downvoting him for being circumcised, but for the (incorrect) information following that fact. I’d be pissed too if I couldn’t read, so get my upvote.

    TheGrandNagus , (edited )

    Because he’s A) talking nonsense, and B) making genital mutilation of babies sound like it’s not that bad.

    You want part of your dick cut off? Cool. Do it when you’re old enough to consent to it. Genuinely. If that’s what floats your boat, then do it. People should have the right to body autonomy. Slice your ear off as well if that’s what you’re into. Anything.

    If this were about tattooing babies, or piercing them, or cutting off their earlobes, everyone would rightly be against it (even though all of these are less dangerous and less likely to have complications).

    It’s only because Americans, Jews, and Muslims are used to this practice that they accept it. If it were a new thing, it would be seen as the barbaric practice that it truly is.

    I believe there’s also the element of “well if I admit that circumcision of babies is wrong, that means there’s something wrong with my penis. And I don’t want there to be something wrong with my penis. Therefore I’m on the side of genital mutilation being ok.”

    undefinedValue ,

    God damn you have some serious issues my dude. Sorry your parents traumatized you but you need to calm down and stop attacking people who have different opinions than you. He said he got it done and he was grateful for it, let it go and stop downvote brigading because he doesn’t fall into line with your cronies. The whole Brogan anti circumcision crew from Reddit was one of the cringiest groups that I wish never migrated over to lemmy. They were so self righteous about their stance they would never listen to arguments from the other side, and were 1000% convinced everyone else was a monster.

    I for one am happy mine was done, my dick is plenty sensitive and it doesn’t look like a crusty ant eater. My sexual partners have been very thankful for the same, and I’ve received numerous compliments to the same. The truth is, most women find uncircumcised dick to be pretty gross. I can see a few reasons for that, and one of them is simply the look, but the other is because more than a few of them had to deal with a dirty fucking uncut guy who didn’t wash probably and it was nasty af and left them with a bad impression of uncut guys.

    CallumWells ,

    “well if I admit that circumcision of babies is wrong, that means there’s something wrong with my penis. And I don’t want there to be something wrong with my penis. Therefore I’m on the side of genital mutilation being ok.”

    TheGrandNagus , (edited )

    No issues here. I’m against mutilating the genitals of babies, like a normal person.

    The people who have serious issues are the ones who get happy at the thought of taking a newborn baby and slicing part of their dick off. They are brainwashed.

    You’ll notice I said it’s good that he likes his circumcision. Just that it should’ve been done as an adult, with consent. Not forced on him as a baby.

    I’m sorry that you view cutting off parts of babies’ dicks to be a great cause worthy of championing. That’s pretty sad. That cutting off parts of babies in a needless procedure that frequently goes wrong is something that gets your mutilated dick hard.

    And yeah, being pro baby mutilation is something that a monster would like. Unironically, to mutilate the genitalia of babies is something we should view as being the actions of a monster. But religion drives people to do crazy things.

    Hahahaha most women absolutely do not find normal, un-mutilated dicks to be ugly. Quit making shit up.

    I’m really sorry you got mutilated as a baby. Genuinely. Hope the scarring isn’t too bad and you were one of the lucky majority who don’t get a botched circumcision. But you need to get over this insecurity about your dick.

    Socsa ,

    Because this particular internet conversation moved beyond any kind of rationality somewhere around 2002

    modifier ,

    This is a barbaric practice that itself is only a surrogate for the much more barbaric practice of child sacrifice.

    To suggest discussion of it moved beyond any kind of rationality is laughable because its very foundation is a rejection of rationality.

    Let’s have a rational discussion: what is your best, rational, science-backed reason for supporting the nonconsensual mutilation of male infants?

    I know some of those words are emotionally provocative but they are 100% accurate and simply not cloaked in polite euphemism, and you need to engage with each of them on a rational basis.

    I eagerly await your thoughts.

    TheGrandNagus ,

    Yeah, the people against mutilating the genitals of babies are irrational when they talk about how fucked up they think forced genital mutilation is.

    It’s definitely not the people who dogmatically defend cutting off parts of baby genitalia despite all the suffering and issues it causes, who are behaving irrationally.

    If you want to have parts of your dick chopped off, more power to ya. But do it when you’re a consenting adult.

    modifier ,

    I’ve had a foreskin all my life and it’s just another part of your body that you learn to care for, like ears.

    Also like ears, it takes a little bit of extra work to care for your foreskin, but it’s worth it because not-unlike ears, foreskin heightens your sensitivity to stimuli.

    Also, like ears, the idea of lopping it off is barbaric on its face. We in the west are happy to use the descriptive, and more emotionally resonant term ‘genital mutilation’ when we talk about the equally barbaric practice that is forced on females in other cultures, but we still hide behind euphemism and branding when talking about mutilating perfectly good penises.

    Also, this is intelligent design? You leave at least two defects in the V1 production push, refuse to release a day 1 patch, and your hot fix for one defect is just to cut if off - eventually, meanwhile the appendix is just left to lurk.

    Goods not as advertised.

    chakan2 ,
    @chakan2@lemmy.world avatar

    Most people think this, however this is the Internet where minorities shout the loudest.

    TokenBoomer ,

    Sometimes the majority be stupid. I know, I know, hard to believe. Remember the Geocentric model?

    nickwitha_k ,

    there’s the rumor that it affects sensitivity

    Just to offer a correction to this for you, it is not a “rumor” but physiological fact. Circumcision removes the frenar band, which is very densely innervated and a principal errogenous zone for those that are uncircumcised, additonally, the Meissner’s corpuscles, which contain thousands of touch receptors and tens of thousands of endings that are biologically specialized for sexual pleasure are amputated.

    I can’t, personally, attest to the effect as being cut is all that I’ve ever known but, the evidence is undeniable about the fact that circumcision diminishes the male sexual experience.

    RubberElectrons ,
    @RubberElectrons@lemmy.world avatar

    You’re probably correct. All of this non-consensual body mod shit, for men and women, sucks.

    What’s done is done, but I won’t repeat the mistakes. I also harbor no Ill will about it either, I’m living life with the hand I’ve been dealt, and having fun too.

    nickwitha_k ,

    Absolutely! Though, if a low-risk procedure becomes avalable to restore it with full biological functionality (all the nerves, glands, etc), I’ll absolutely get it, if I can. I don’t harbor ill will either as, probably, none of those involved had any idea, with how commonplace it is in the US.

    I’m just happy that I wasn’t the recipient of a botched circumcision and that they are pretty uncommon in the developed world at somewhere around 0.6% but in some developing nations that shoots up to a reported 5%. And that’s a pretty fucked up amount of risk to subject one who cannot consent to such a procedure to.

    Kusimulkku ,

    just way cleaner

    Man, just wash your dick. Everyone should wash their dick

    there’s the rumor that it affects sensitivity

    rumor

    Hmm

    barsoap ,

    Man, just wash your dick. Everyone should wash their dick

    While we’re at it: No, washing your ass doesn’t make you gay, America. Being gay makes you gay.

    stochasticity ,

    Do… Do Americans not wash their asses?

    troglodytis ,

    Most Americans wash their asses, but you will find all forms of Idiocracy here.

    slackassassin ,

    Of course they do. The internet was a mistake.

    arin ,

    I’m uncircumcised and after fapping when my head is still exposed i cannot wear underwear or pants omfg it’s so fucking uncomfortable touching anything dry, IDK how circumcised people live, it’s like constant pain.

    A_Random_Idiot ,

    Desensitization.

    Kinda like how martial artists slam their shin into a bat. eventually the shin strengthens and you don’t feel it near as bad as you did at the start.

    Zehzin ,
    @Zehzin@lemmy.world avatar

    Thank you for the mental image of dickslamming a bat.

    A_Random_Idiot ,

    how else are you gonna break that stack of bricks with it?

    dylanTheDeveloper ,
    @dylanTheDeveloper@lemmy.world avatar

    I think you might have syphilis

    Lafari ,

    THIS!! Why didn’t anyone else tell him? I’m glad you did. He might not die of fantasy now.

    prayer ,

    Kertinization. A layer of keratin forms around the head to protect it when circumcized.

    systemglitch ,

    I love it, and I have no idea what you are talking about, it’s never bothered by being in clothes.

    DBT ,

    As an American who’s uncut… there’s a scar?

    Whorehoarder ,

    How else?

    DBT ,

    I mean I’ve seen lots of porn and never noticed anything that looked like a scar, but then again I don’t typically focus on the dick.

    cashews_best_nut ,

    As a rampant homosexual who’s done lots of dick-focused study - there’s a scar and it has different levels of noticability. Some are faint, some jagged, some with mismatched colours, some bright red, etc.

    Like any scar it can be very variable.

    DBT ,

    Yea I got it with the two tone Malone comment. That’s my G.

    But I appreciate yours as well.

    corus_kt ,

    I can understand why people might not notice, most of my research sources are heavily pixelated.

    prole ,

    Have you tried using a VPN and looking it up from outside Japan?

    KingJalopy ,

    What’s fucked is I had no idea that was a scar until I was well into adulthood.

    DBT ,

    This is something I do not wish to google. Is it noticeable? I would assume a small surgical cut that occurs at infancy leaves no significant scar

    KingJalopy , (edited )

    Let’s just say there is a definitive line where what once was my foreskin now just is a smooth piece of skin connected by another. I wouldn’t call it a scar because like I said I had no idea it was not normal. There’s definitely a noticeable difference between the top part and the rest of it. I’m not sure how else to put this delicately. Honestly, I would just google it.

    Fuckfuckmyfuckingass ,
    @Fuckfuckmyfuckingass@lemmy.world avatar

    Unacceptable. Upload a pic of the tip of your dick pls.

    KingJalopy ,

    I mean if you really want it I’ll do it. It’s just anatomy. Plus I have a wide angle lens…

    pressanykeynow ,

    It’s not like I want to see it, but I’m this down the thread it’s too late to stop. Bring it on.

    TokenBoomer ,

    LMFAO that was good 👍

    PineRune ,

    It is the number one cause of Two-Tone-Malone.

    KingJalopy ,

    Not to be crude but this pretty much is what I’m talking about. It’s almost like having a two toned penis…

    NSFW btw… Although it is just a drawing

    https://lemm.ee/pictrs/image/53696c7e-bef5-4458-82ea-cf455775a521.jpeg

    Rev3rze ,

    Wow the frenulum gets removed as well sometimes? What an outdated and ridiculous thing to be doing to children for absolutely no good reason. Yeah sure, some studies show it improves hygiene I’ve been told. To me that’s about as proportionate as removing all your healthy teeth so you don’t get cavities in the future…

    Risk ,

    The studies where it ‘improves’ hygiene are poorly designed as they don’t control for education and understanding.

    In other words - what’s better: teaching our baby boys the simple act of cleaning under their foreskin in the bath, along with the rest of their body or cutting off a sensitive and important part of their body to make masturbation and sex more difficult?

    pigup ,

    It’s the dumbest shit ever.

    LillyPip ,

    Blame this guy.

    cashews_best_nut ,

    Is anyone elses penis turtling the more they read of this comment thread?

    steal_your_face ,
    @steal_your_face@lemmy.ml avatar

    Two tone Malone 😞

    adj16 ,

    Ok wait the rest of this is important but sidebar, my peehole is called a MEATUS??

    pigup ,

    Biden needs to bring this up at the next State of the Union address

    gaifux ,

    POTUS bringing up the MEATUS

    modifier ,

    A bit wierd, but hey, whatever gets it hard for you. I’m not here to judge.

    gaifux ,

    Meaty Erection Around The United States

    modifier ,

    this gai fux

    PopMyCop ,

    A meatus is a hole/tunnel, with some specific properties. You also, just as a by the by thing, have an external acoustic meatus on each side of your head.

    acockworkorange ,

    Are you saying all those vitiligo penises in porn are actually just circumcised?

    systemglitch ,

    There is no scar.

    eatthecake ,

    Why is a child touching your circumcision scar?

    Vespair ,

    Oh jesus christ can we please leave this stupid circumcision bullshit on reddit?

    TokenBoomer ,

    Would you rather talk about the Genocide in Gaza?

    Vespair ,

    Sure; it’s absolutely awful and I hope somebody intervenes soon. It’s also embarrassing that as an American our money goes in part to fund it. What else would you like to say about it?

    Oh right, you’re just once again being a disingenuous douchebag who is trying to equate real world harm reduction voting strategy with implicit endorsement of a genocide as if the alternative wouldn’t only exacerbate the situation, still refusing to actually use your own words but rather relying on the better words of others, only now in this totally unrelated thread.

    Good job falsely assuming I have pro-zionist opinions just because I believe in practical application of real world policies and strategies though! I had to unblock you and the other dude from that thread temporarily so I could restore a removed comment; I appreciate the reminder to block you again.

    Finally to your other point in the previous thread, I don’t block opposition discourse, I block disingenuous bad faith actors. You know, like you.

    For all necessary context, see the following thread in full: https://lemm.ee/comment/8402332

    TokenBoomer ,

    Or. Crazy idea. We let people discuss the merits of circumcision in a meme thread.

    RubberElectrons ,
    @RubberElectrons@lemmy.world avatar

    Kick rocks, low quality clown.

    aiden ,

    No

    Cockmaster6000 ,

    Well, you didn’t leave your dumbass comments there either so, pot calling the kettle black

    systemglitch ,

    It looks better cut than uncut. Change my mind.

    KillingTimeItself ,

    “the human form looks better in a certain color”

    yes i realize this isn’t inherently racist, im making a joke to point out how silly this is

    TxzK ,

    Yeah fuck circumcisions. Child abuse is what it is. I want my fucking foreskin back

    Ensign_Crab ,

    My mother used to hate it when people would get baby girls’ ears pierced. Called it child abuse and mutilation.

    I’m circumcised.

    Shou ,

    Damn. That’s pretty fucking shit.

    MaoZedongers ,

    Same here, some fucked up shit.

    UnPassive ,

    Not sure how badly you want it back, but it is possible to restore. Non-sugically. Basically skin under tension causes Mitosis (skin cells dividing to make more skin) - think putting on weight, gaining muscle, getting pregnant, or ear gauges. You tug the skin long enough and eventually have your hoodie back. The results are surprisingly impressive. r/restoring_foreskin has a bunch of info

    CaptainEffort ,

    I basically did by accident

    c0mbatbag3l ,
    @c0mbatbag3l@lemmy.world avatar

    Username checks out.

    Freeman ,

    I’m intact(/uncircumsized) and cannot imagine how you would accidentally do that

    CaptainEffort ,

    Honestly just being way too rough with it for like twenty years

    TxzK ,

    bruh. I don’t necessarily want it back and was just angry about the fact that it was taken from without my consent in the first place. But thanks for the info anyway, tho not sure what I’m gonna do with it.

    Twentytwodividedby7 ,

    Tug the foreskin? Lol

    TxzK ,

    Hmmm, perhaps we can play tug of war with foreskins lol

    Mango ,

    That’s not gonna restore the nervous system bits associated.

    UnPassive ,

    New nerves do grow. Muscly/fat/pregnant people have the same skin senstitivity. But there are special function bits that are lost. The Rigid Band has special nerve endings, gone forever. Frenellum too

    LillyPip ,

    Oh, I’ve seen that. It’s fascinating. There’s a ball with outer clamps and varying degrees of weights you can add on a dangly bit. You attach the contraption for some number of increasing minutes per day, and it stretches the skin surrounding the glans until it’s long enough to encompass the glans. After a while, the little ball will be encompassed by the new foreskin.

    He says it’s not painful and I believe him, but not being the owner of a penis, it looks at least uncomfortable to me. Then again, I’ve never used gauges, either, and as you said, it’s pretty similar to that.

    Emerald ,

    Just make sure to double, triple, quadruple check any foreskin restoration advice you get. Some of the ways people suggest can be really dangerous.

    force ,

    I want my fucking foreskin back

    Doom music starts playing

    FiniteLooper ,

    The Only Thing They Fear is Foreskin

    Pinklink ,

    Fearskin

    prole ,

    I have a certain set of skills…

    SeekPie ,

    Foreskills

    brbposting ,

    I don’t want much just want my foreskin back again
    No it’s not TMI I shared it 'cause we’re friends
    My parents chose this road but I’ll choose where it ends
    Don’t I deserve it all? Gonna grow it back again

    Grow It Back Again - foreskin restoration anthem from How To with John Wilson (HBO 2020)

    (Piped mirror)

    Emerald ,

    Oh yeah I remember this guy. He has a good cause (anti circumcision) but had to ruin it with Bill Gates conspiracy theory nonsense. Also I love How to with John Wilson

    edit: hmm actually there is some stuff about bill gates and circumcision so I should probably fact check myself here

    fne8w2ah ,

    Same shit in the Philippines.

    RagingRobot ,

    We are united by our mangled penises

    kungen ,

    Makes sense, Pilipinas was an American colony after all.

    Chriswild ,

    *territory

    dylanTheDeveloper ,
    @dylanTheDeveloper@lemmy.world avatar

    pp look like clown noise

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