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erasebegin , (edited )

oh my god, too real 😂 except I was there, my scar is more brutal and I’m all the more stupid for letting it happen. I’ll explain, and I’m going to do so in more detail than I ever have before.

I was living in China in 2017 and I got an infection on my guy. In hindsight because I had a new girlfriend, was having a lot of sex, and wasn’t cleaning very much. My girlfriend takes me to the local hospital in this “small town” (different meaning in China), and I sit down in front of this miserable looking bloke with a fat, fancy golden wristwatch who says: “你有两个选择 。。。either take this medication and the infection will probably return, or ‘peel skin’ and be free of it forever.”

I looked at my girlfriend with a grin and asked what she thought would be best. How bad could it be anyway if they do it to babies. Probably like getting your ears pierced.

She drags her thumb across her throat and screams “off with his head!” or more likely she calmly says “peel skin.” All I remember is that she said it without hesitation. The slimy looking doctor slithers upstairs to the operating room and I get on the table where there’s a large light above my head which, turned off, is acting as a mirror. I can see everything as his assistant passes him the syringe to knock out my guy and then the scalpel to begin the scalping. All I could see was a bloody mess when his phone rang in his pocket. I could smell the blood as his assistant removed the phone from his pocket and answered the call. “They want to speak to you” she said. So the doctor puts the phone between his ear and his shoulder and continues cutting and chatting away. “That’s my dick you prick!”

The next day my guy is bandaged from head to toe. I tell my girlfriend to stop visiting because every time I get an erection I drop to the floor in writhing pain. Limping along the pavement a group of 80-somethings breeze past me. The pedestrian light goes green and I barely make it to the island in the middle of the road before it goes red again. I lie awake every night, plagued by spontaneous erections and excruciating pain. As the wound healed a grotesque scar formed as a reminder that the body is sacred.

duffman ,

Appreciate your story. Sorry for the pain.

erasebegin ,

The worst experiences I’ve had in my life always make the best stories 😄

eatthecake ,

Why is a child touching your circumcision scar?

systemglitch ,

It looks better cut than uncut. Change my mind.

KillingTimeItself ,

“the human form looks better in a certain color”

yes i realize this isn’t inherently racist, im making a joke to point out how silly this is

dylanTheDeveloper ,
@dylanTheDeveloper@lemmy.world avatar

pp look like clown noise

arin ,

I’m uncircumcised and after fapping when my head is still exposed i cannot wear underwear or pants omfg it’s so fucking uncomfortable touching anything dry, IDK how circumcised people live, it’s like constant pain.

A_Random_Idiot ,

Desensitization.

Kinda like how martial artists slam their shin into a bat. eventually the shin strengthens and you don’t feel it near as bad as you did at the start.

Zehzin ,
@Zehzin@lemmy.world avatar

Thank you for the mental image of dickslamming a bat.

A_Random_Idiot ,

how else are you gonna break that stack of bricks with it?

dylanTheDeveloper ,
@dylanTheDeveloper@lemmy.world avatar

I think you might have syphilis

Lafari ,

THIS!! Why didn’t anyone else tell him? I’m glad you did. He might not die of fantasy now.

prayer ,

Kertinization. A layer of keratin forms around the head to protect it when circumcized.

systemglitch ,

I love it, and I have no idea what you are talking about, it’s never bothered by being in clothes.

fne8w2ah ,

Same shit in the Philippines.

RagingRobot ,

We are united by our mangled penises

kungen ,

Makes sense, Pilipinas was an American colony after all.

Chriswild ,

*territory

moon ,

I love when this topic comes up because people definitely don’t have a weird fixation on foreskin and totally have balanced discussions that calmly hears both sides.

Buffaloaf ,

Seriously, why does this come up so often on Lemmy?

robocall ,
@robocall@lemmy.world avatar

no one should mutilate a baby’s genitalia. I guess some people feel strongly about breaking the tradition.

nomous ,

Why are people so upset about cutting baby dicks wtf it’s up to the parents obviously?

IMO we should just go ahead and gauge his little ears too, dad has gauged ears, we want them to look the same.

Mom has full sleeve tattoos so we’re thinking maybe he’d look cool with some fresh ink too?

slackassassin , (edited )

Just cut the dicks already! God, why is this a debate, cut the dicks and be happy about it. A baby is born, and you cut its dick. It’s tradition.

How else do you keep it from having to wash it and wear a condom. It won’t have to do any of that if you just cut its dick!

Perfectly normal, very chill. Slash that dick up asap or you’re just a weirdo. /s

CurlyMoustache ,
@CurlyMoustache@lemmy.world avatar

Not a fixation on foreskins but on personal freedoms and the right to choose what happens to your own body:

Are you an adult? Cut off what ever part of your body you want to. I don’t care.

Are you an adult who wants to cut of body parts from others? No. Stop it. Let them decided themselves when they are old enough.

moon ,

If you intentionally do not recognize it as a legitimate medical procedure with lots of science backed behind it, then you’re purposefully spreading misinfo. That’s just a fact. Just like how some people in this thread are saying it reduces sexual pleasure, scientific evidence states this is not true. It’s also significantly safer and less risk when they’re a baby. These are just peer-reviewed objective facts that have been extensively tested and confirmed.

stacks.cdc.gov/view/cdc/58456/cdc_58456_DS1.pdf

TseseJuer ,

you’re an idiot and so is anyone that agrees to circumcision for an infant.

moon ,

Very level headed statement after being shown evidence

ASeriesOfPoorChoices ,

lol ‘evidence’

Jax ,

I’ve been reading your comments, it’s amazing how someone can link an article to 37 grown men voluntarily circumcising themselves and use that as evidence towards why children would like to be circumcised.

You fucking dumb my guy.

TokenBoomer ,

Or a lobbyist for big foreskin.

Sunfoil ,

Haha the irony of you coming out so strongly after your original statement is gold.

moon ,

Not really, I’m open to seeing any evidence as to why the CDC is factually wrong.

Sunfoil ,

Don’t ask me, I think we should just cut the whole thing off.

trolololol ,

Hey, as long as you own what you’re cutting I’m cool

Sunfoil ,

No. All of 'em. Americans do go far enough. Everyone should walk around with little nubs.

ASeriesOfPoorChoices ,

lol ‘facts’

Jax ,

“You know, I’m really tired of having to clean my nails and trim them. I know, I should just cut my fucking fingertips off. That way I don’t have to worry about pesky things like dirt or germs living under the nails!”

ASeriesOfPoorChoices ,

it’s absolutely amazing. what a cockgoblin.

a_wild_mimic_appears ,

ignoring bodily autonomy and the right for your OWN CHILD to choose what their penis will look like for a medical procedure that only should be used when a phimosis diagnosis has been made or when you join specific religions (and not for “so he looks like dad” or “my religions imaginary friend collects foreskins of infants”)

moon ,

It’s kind of you to worry about the aesthetics of your child’s penis, which studies have shown that it improves body image and sexual satisfaction anyways. You should really leave the medical suggestions to the professionals. There’s so much anti-science in this thread going on, I’d assume that I was in a crazy 5G anti vax conspiracy bullshit forum. What is it about medical scientific evidence that makes people so upset? All I’m doing is repeating and sharing established medical studies after all, but apparently that makes people a little emotional. Kind of like vaccinations!

a_wild_mimic_appears ,

this is NOT about aesthetics. this is about robbing a child of a deeply personal choice.

moon ,

Suppose we should just not name children until they’re old enough to choose their own name too. We’re talking about some fuckin skin on the tip of the dick lol. Most will never even know the difference until they go see it in a health class or Google what the differences even look like.

What are the pros and cons here again? The cons of the situation is that they might end up wanting some extra skin at the tip of the dick for whatever reason. The pros is health and self confidence improvement. The pros outweigh the cons here, it’s a no brainer. It’s a simple medical procedure has been factually proven to improve health and self confidence, and it’s by far the safest to perform on a new born.

CurlyMoustache ,
@CurlyMoustache@lemmy.world avatar

This is the most idiotic thing I’ve ever read. They can change their name if they want to. How old they have to be is different from country to country.

Equating naming a child with cutting off stuff from their bodies is fucking stupid.

a_wild_mimic_appears ,

thanks for writing down what i was thinking lol

Boldizzle ,
@Boldizzle@lemmy.world avatar

I had to laugh when they used naming a child as an example. What a dipshit.

a_wild_mimic_appears ,

like @CurlyMoustache said: names can be changed. and if your confidence is based on a mutilated sexual organ, then go cut yourself as much as you like, but leave others alone. don’t do something irreversible to someone without their consent.

KillingTimeItself ,

i dont like my given birth name, i could legally change if it i please. In fact i don’t like the concept of legal names much at all, but thats a different story.

Lets throw in some similar cases here. Ear lobes, why not just chop those off at birth? They dangle around weirdly and are places to put jewelry. Which can cause injury.

Ever heard of scarification? It’s like a tattoo, but subtractive instead of additive.

You ever heard of penile subincision? You just yeet a massive slit into the bottom of the penis, that leads into the urethra.

Why not just do those things to children upon birth?

lud ,

Multilating childrens genitals for appearance is pretty fucked up.

That choice should be left to themselves and no one else. Unless absolutely necessary of course.

The supposed benefits are very very small and the majority of the world is doing absolutely fine without removing the foreskin of children.

moon ,

Maybe go back and read all the text you ignored about the other benefits. Would love to see you link any established peer-reviewed studies that can back up your neanderthal level reading comprehension.

calcopiritus ,

I don’t give a fuck about those “benefits” which have miniscule impact and can absolutely be achieved by means other than cutting a baby’s foreskin.

Adults can cut their dick off if they want, surely a lot of men would do it if those benefits are so impressive.

Parents should not have the freedom to mutilate their babies because they say so. Only if a doctor recommends it because of an actual disease (phimosis or whatever).

That is basic ethics. Don’t make unneeded permanent choices for a baby. If it is a decision that can easily wait until the baby is an adult, it is evil to make it for them.

chetradley ,

Honest question, did you read this study before you posted it? The sample size is 37 Turkish men who voluntarily applied for circumcision. Do you not find that sample to be extremely small? Don’t you think there would be some inherent bias when assessing the psychological effect in people who had chosen to undergo the procedure? If anything, this study reinforces that circumcision should be left to the individual to choose, rather than having the procedure done against their will as an infant.

lightnsfw ,

That’s a study of 30 turkish dudes…

Soggytoast ,

When my son (2) was born there was decent pressure to circumcise, we were asked leading up to birth, before birth at hospital many times, and many times after.

I’m sure there’s plenty of single mothers who don’t know any better and just eventually agree. I’ve been told hospitals sell the cut off for woman’s make up stuff

Railing5132 ,

I don’t know where you’re from, but in the US, hospitals are strictly forbidden from doing anything with biological material post-procedure except 1) biopsy, 2) disposing it in accordance with biohazard containment practices, or 3) limited instances of release to the patient (think kidney stone).

Nobody is selling infants foeskins for makeup. That’s fucking stupid conspiracy bullshit.

TokenBoomer ,

But do they charge for the procedure?

Soggytoast ,

www.allohealth.care/…/do-hospitals-sell-foreskin

reddit.com/…/what_do_you_think_hospitals_do_with_…

Doesn’t seem like bullshit, however it is used for more than make up, like skin grafts and bio science. Apparently Oprah Famously said she uses a cream with foreskin in it

Railing5132 ,

Ah, let’s see… An SEO article from a clinic in India about the possibilities of what can be done (with absolutely zero citations), a reddit thread and the Coup de Grace, Oprah, who famously gave us “Dr.” Oz. I’m gonna go ahead and not choose to give a bunch of credibility to those sources.

CurlyMoustache ,
@CurlyMoustache@lemmy.world avatar

Sure. As I said: adults can cut of anything they want. Babies cannot decide for themselves. It is immoral and barbaric to cut of parts from the bodies of babies.

Condoms gives insanely more protection than a circumcised penis. The health benefits are therefore just a fart in the wind and should not be used as a an argument for cutting people without their consent. Teach healthy sex practices in schools

lightnsfw ,

That document is regarding the spread of STIs. There’s plenty of other methods to avoid those that don’t involve cutting part of your dick off.

elucubra ,

Like washing?

mishielda1234 ,

Cum, I love how your replies are more than happy to pick apart your sources without providing any of their own. A casual scroll through the other comments will reveal that most people who weren’t circumcized at birth have issues with it or regret having to have the procedure done later in life.

There’s a reason the procedure is so ubiquitous for so long, the science and health research is there to prove it. Same way getting vaccines is mandatory in the US for going to school. Same way abortion would be if politicians didn’t keep getting involved in legitimate medical research. These procedures have been studied and peer reviewed for decades by experts, best leave it to them. hopkinsmedicine.org/…/greater-benefits-of-infant-…

If you want to have a real argument with myself and cum (lmao) bring your own sources and maybe other people will take you seriously.

moon ,

Exactly, you get it lol. This is a funny topic because you can simply drop a fact sheet by medical professionals that all overwhelmingly agree on this topic, and then people will lose their mind. That’s why I’m only interested in looking for scientifically backed viewpoints instead of people getting so emotional. Reality disagrees with their traditions so they really hate it.

TokenBoomer ,

Findings from the University of Sydney suggest that around 38% of the male population globally is circumcised.

Circumcision is the exception. I’m sure the 60% of uncircumcised men across the world live tortured lives. Source

moon ,

And?

TokenBoomer ,

And you’re profoundly misinformed

moon ,

How is listening to the CDC being misinformed lol

TokenBoomer ,

The new CDC guidelines highlight methodologically flawed studies from Africa that have no relevance to the United States. They chose to ignore studies that were conducted in the United States and show no link between circumcision and the risk of sexually transmitted diseases, including HIV (Thomas et al., 2004).

Media literacy necessitates consideration of opposing viewpoints from reputable sources. Not all “experts” agree with the CDC. Source.

moon ,

Of course they don’t. Still, the CDC is very reputable and I trust them over it. It’s also ridiculous to say the CDC is misinformation.

TokenBoomer ,

I didn’t say the CDC is misinformation, just that other scientists have shown the flaws in their methodology. Science. I have a healthy uncircumcised son. I would have circumcised him at birth if the science warranted it. It does not. If parents circumcise for religious reasons that’s their choice. But it must be recognized that the science used to validate this religious belief is weak.

UnPassive ,

Science is different than peer reviewed science. The STI study has some big problems (especially moral problems) - one practical problem though is the hiv test in the study isn’t accurate for some time (3 months I think) and that messes with their data and wasn’t accounted for properly (some test candidates definitely had HIV before the study). Another huge oversight was that a freshly cut man isn’t going to have sex for weeks while he heals, deceasing the chances of contracting HIV. Another sign that something is wrong is European countries that have less HIV than the USA. But even if it was guaranteed that you contact HIV 10% less often if circumcised, that’s still not even close to a good enough benefit to justify the procedure.

The “data” on why circumcision is beneficial is mostly just cut men trying to justify why they’re superior and is biased. The sensitivity being the same claims are silly. Studies done are controversial because measuring sensitivity is hard. A big red flag is reading testimants of adults who got cut - usually they say it was super painful while healing, then crazy sensitive, underwear was uncomfortable and they had trouble lasting during sex. But a couple years later and they’d lost sensitivity. Underwear feels fine, refactory period goes up. This is because of keratinization of the glans of the penis. Similar to a callous on skin tissue

systemglitch ,

I’m so glad it was done to me when I was a baby. 100% the proper way to do it.

Belgdore ,

Why is this a both sides thing? Circumcision is a Jewish rite that became a larger thing because of a couple mentions in the Christian New Testament. It also has some medical application for individuals with certain conditions.

Doing it to all male babies doesn’t make rational sense unless you are a specific type of religious.

mishielda1234 ,

While circumcision has been a Jewish tradition historically, it has come a long way since then. There are decades of medical research and studies that prove that it is a safe procedure for newborns and bring numerous benefits later in life. Please trust the science and not the religious rhetoric.

FonsNihilo ,

deleted_by_author

    •
    elucubra ,

    I’m intact. I don’t have to wash my dick hard, just pull the foreskin and wash. If anything I wash it more gently because it’s more sensitive.

    FonsNihilo ,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    theluckyone ,

    I spend as much time washing my armpits as I do under my foreskin. Roll it back, quick lather and rinse, and done.

    Even if I’m camping for days at a time, away from running water, a quick wipe down with plain water and a wash cloth keeps the smell and smegma away.

    mishielda1234 ,

    This is in my other comment: hopkinsmedicine.org/…/greater-benefits-of-infant-…

    Belgdore ,

    A commentary text from over a decade ago on one study that shows a slight decrease in STIs or their symptoms is not qualitative proof.

    Cockmaster6000 ,

    Jewish doctor promotes routine infant circumcision, this and more tonight at 11.

    the_brownie ,

    I think part of the problem with this discussion is that a lot of us who were circumcised without consent spend most of our early years thinking it’s normal and there is nothing to be upset about. So when people point out the practice is generally very harmful, it is upsetting. It can be hard to process at first, and I think, unfortunately, some people double down on traditional rationalizations as a defense mechanism.

    That being said, I am not a fan of people referring to my genitalia as mutilated/mangled or to me as damaged. It is completely valid to be upset about having your foreskin removed without your consent, but I feel sometimes people veer a little too far in projecting their own hurt onto others. Many people live fulfilling lives with circumcised penises, and some even do it by choice, so, speaking strictly for myself, I generally am glass half-full about it.

    greywolf0x1 ,

    Yeah, I think since the practice is based on organized religion and there’s no consent when circumcised, the validity of circumcision is quite questionable.

    But, medically speaking, is circumcision harmful?

    That’s a genuine question and I see a lot of uncircumcised people complain about phimosis and the skin flap getting tighter and more uncomfortable as they grow older, being cut sounds better.

    S_204 ,

    But, medically speaking, is circumcision harmful?

    Seems to be among the hysterical crowd who’s not actually familiar with the medical opinions on this topic. Not surprising.

    Oddly, I happen to know a plastic surgeon who performs the procedure in my city, he’s apparently the go to guy for it so when given the opportunity to talk about children’s genitals I just had to take it up with him…he told me, to my surprise that the vast bulk of his patients now are recently immigrated from Africa. Wasn’t expecting that, was more just curious how much bullshit he got on a day to day basis given his specialty.

    KillingTimeItself ,

    last i checked according to the ole reliable wikipedia, circumcision is still pretty big in other parts of the world, notably africa iirc.

    Society is weird.

    S_204 ,

    It’s odd to me, and the specialist that the majority of his work now involves African people rather than the clientele he’s been working with for the past 30ish years of his practice was the point he emphasized.

    KillingTimeItself ,

    yeah, it’s a fair observation, i just felt the need to mention that for some reason. Often times weird things have fairly simple explanations.

    EndlessApollo , (edited )

    It can be very very harmful, with pretty much no benefits. The claim that it helps prevent spread of sti’s is thoroughly debunked, and a person’s risk of getting penile cancer is way lower than the risk of complications from circumcision. The claim that is easier as a baby is also VERY thoroughly bullshit, on account of a baby’s foreskin is literally attached to their penis and has to be ripped away. All that pain and risk and long-term damage for basically nothing, it’s kinda fucked up that it’s still as common as it is

    Dkarma ,

    Your entire post is simply false and outright misinformation.

    Absolutely nothing you said is even remotely true.

    Shame on you.

    Randomgal ,

    Be careful not to offer too much evidence with your dramatic accusations.

    Dkarma ,
    1. Kids can’t consent. Parents do it for them in every aspect. This is no different. Making medical decisions for your kids is normal.
    2. You have no reason to be bitter about a legitimate pre emptive procedure to prevent smegma and potential phimosis
    3. Male circ is a safe and sometimes necessary procedure.
    4. Why cant you people be honest? You’re bitter we get it. But lying about circumcision is just stupid and doesn’t convince anyone to not do it.
    5. Everyone should Google phimosis. Anti circ ppl love to lie about there being no medical reason or excuse it away.
    6. It’s none of your business what other people do with their bodies.
    7. There is nothing harmful here at all. It’s no different than removing a skin tag. Demonizing it is laughable.
    CaptnNMorgan ,

    Google says phimosis is fixed easily and is rare to begin with. I think being passionate on either side is silly

    TokenBoomer ,

    Harming babies unnecessarily tends to bring out passion in some.

    CaptnNMorgan ,

    I’m circumcised and happy about it because of conversations I’ve had various women about dicks in general and my dick in particular with a few of them. That being said if I ever have a son, he won’t be circumcised. Unless his mom is Jewish I guess. But I don’t understand the anger around the subject at all.

    TokenBoomer ,

    I’m circumcised, my son is not. If it is your religion, have at it. But forcing religious traditions onto those that don’t have a say is problematic. It’s getting better, but it’s still pushed in hospitals unnecessarily.

    22decembre ,

    It’s good you’re able to talk sanely about it.

    But I don’t understand the anger around the subject at all.

    It’s simply a subject of personal autonomy and body integrity.

    Imagine being a grown man or just a teenager and being forced to perform that operation without your consent nor any explanation (as it’s mostly useless out of social norms and potentially harmful). I guess you’d be furious, at least.

    That’s it.

    CaptnNMorgan ,

    But it’s not happening to grown men or teenagers against their will. It’s happening to people when they won’t remember it and the idea is it prevents minor annoyances about being a man. Archaic and unnecessary? Definitely. But getting mad at people isn’t going to change their mind and doesn’t help people understand it’s unnecessary. That said, being someone who has a mentally unhealthy aversion to bathing, I’m really glad I don’t have to even think about “smegma” I didn’t even know it was a thing until I was fully grown.

    Edit: to be clear, I don’t think anyone should do that to their kids. If you can’t teach your kid to clean themselves you probably shouldn’t have them to begin with. I just think it’s more helpful for future kids if their parents aren’t circumcising them because they don’t want to agree with the annoying angry people online. It would be more helpful to spread knowledge without judgement or making people feel shameful for something they thought was good. That’s how you get people to double down.

    slackassassin ,

    This is the dumbest fucking list of bullshit

    1. Kids can’t consent. Eyup.
    2. Cutting of a body part to avoid cleaning it is a unique kind of stupid argument.
    3. Nobody is against it when it’s necessary. That’s what is known as a strawman argument.
    4. No one is lying. You are the one trying to convince someone to do something. Not doing anything is the fucking default.
    5. Again, addressing phimosis is NOT the issue people are against.
    6. Babies are not capable of doing anything to their bodies.
    7. It can absolutely be harmful and comparing the removal of nerves and tissue from genitalia to a skin tag is so stupid that I actually think you’re trolling.
    Dkarma ,

    You’re being 100% dishonest and misinformative in your post.

    Why u guys gotta double down on your complete lies when called out?
    It’s pathetic. Mind u own business and cope with ur sad doggy penis.

    slackassassin ,

    Lol. This mf here getting their bs called out point by point with simple rhetorical counters and retorts with a solid “No u. And you have a dumb pee pee.” Epic.

    the_brownie ,

    Thanks for this lol. I started to respond yesterday but as I was thinking about their arguments halfway through I decided it wasn’t worth my time or energy (validated by their response to this comment LOL).

    slackassassin ,

    This mf both sidesing cutting baby dicks, smdh.

    gndagreborn ,
    @gndagreborn@lemmy.world avatar

    My poor penis.

    boatsnhos931 ,

    Is they/them talking to a penis or a person? WTF is a reblog??

    Reddfugee42 ,

    Grandpa get off my computer

    boatsnhos931 ,

    Ok ok but first you help me with this Google machine and tictac youngsta

    NigelFrobisher ,

    Always weird to be reminded that the World’s eminent superpower is obsessed with cutting bits off babies’ dicks. But then, maybe that’s the secret behind their economic strength?

    After all, the Romans did some pretty wild stuff, like making their horses generals.

    KuroeNekoDemon ,

    I’m Canadian they do this here as well

    Digestive_Biscuit ,
    @Digestive_Biscuit@feddit.uk avatar

    I didn’t realise you had horse generals.

    FlightyPenguin ,
    @FlightyPenguin@lemmy.world avatar

    I mixed up a few words and in the context interpreted this as “horse genitals”.

    nixcamic ,

    As a Canadian can we try to convince people that this is true about all Canadians.

    Emerald ,

    Omg me too and I didn’t realize it was generals until I read this comment. I need sleep

    Digestive_Biscuit ,
    @Digestive_Biscuit@feddit.uk avatar

    Amazing. That’ll confuse people when dropping a random comment in.

    “My money’s on the blue team. They’re doing really well this season” “I didn’t realise you had horse genitals”

    starman2112 ,
    @starman2112@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Ah, the old Lemmy S-whinny-roo!

    aulin ,

    Yay! I’ve missed this!

    gun ,
    @gun@lemmy.ml avatar

    I mean, the Middle East and Africa have even higher circumcision rates and it doesn’t seem to be working out for them

    Liz ,

    The Romans used to do the opposite, and tie their foreskin shut just to be extra sure no one would see the head of their penis.

    RagingRobot ,

    I bet that made a mess when they peed

    Digestive_Biscuit ,
    @Digestive_Biscuit@feddit.uk avatar

    https://feddit.uk/pictrs/image/843aeec3-d209-4e97-9120-aceba1be6318.webm

    trolololol ,

    Perhaps the next natural step is joining that with their love of firearms. Circumcision by mass shootings or something.

    Mediocre_Bard ,

    Could you still fuck a general? Asking for a hoplite.

    excitingburp ,

    Mine was at 16 because my foreskin stopped growing. I honestly would have preferred to have it done at birth before I could remember the pain (like my brothers).

    Maggoty ,

    Okay, but that’s not a good reason to make it standard practice.

    TokenBoomer ,

    Well, my anecdotal experience says otherwise. /s

    excitingburp ,

    Did I say it was?

    The point is that there are exceptions and it’s not always “mutilation.”

    Maggoty ,

    Okay? I don’t think anyone was arguing against medically necessary stuff

    orrk ,

    an amputation, even for medical reasons, is a mutilation

    Agent641 , (edited )

    I never learned to roll back my foreskin when I was a wee lad and so once when I was 8 it got infected and I had to apply ointment to it and keep gradually peeling it back from its swollen and cemented position like trying to squeeze a tennis ball out of a tight gym sock. it hurt to pee for a week. Still, Im glad to have my foreskin.

    ILikeBoobies ,

    you know I don’t get with no wormies

    -Francine Smith

    Vespair ,

    Oh jesus christ can we please leave this stupid circumcision bullshit on reddit?

    TokenBoomer ,

    Would you rather talk about the Genocide in Gaza?

    Vespair ,

    Sure; it’s absolutely awful and I hope somebody intervenes soon. It’s also embarrassing that as an American our money goes in part to fund it. What else would you like to say about it?

    Oh right, you’re just once again being a disingenuous douchebag who is trying to equate real world harm reduction voting strategy with implicit endorsement of a genocide as if the alternative wouldn’t only exacerbate the situation, still refusing to actually use your own words but rather relying on the better words of others, only now in this totally unrelated thread.

    Good job falsely assuming I have pro-zionist opinions just because I believe in practical application of real world policies and strategies though! I had to unblock you and the other dude from that thread temporarily so I could restore a removed comment; I appreciate the reminder to block you again.

    Finally to your other point in the previous thread, I don’t block opposition discourse, I block disingenuous bad faith actors. You know, like you.

    For all necessary context, see the following thread in full: https://lemm.ee/comment/8402332

    TokenBoomer ,

    Or. Crazy idea. We let people discuss the merits of circumcision in a meme thread.

    RubberElectrons ,
    @RubberElectrons@lemmy.world avatar

    Kick rocks, low quality clown.

    aiden ,

    No

    Cockmaster6000 ,

    Well, you didn’t leave your dumbass comments there either so, pot calling the kettle black

    dipshit ,

    Genital mutilation under the guise of “easier to clean” is stupid. Cutting off your legs also makes them easier to clean.

    UnderpantsWeevil ,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    I’ve seen people lose their shit over babies with pierced ears and young children getting tattoos. There’s all sorts of dental work you go through as a kid that you have functionally no control over.

    Even had someone chew me out because a foster kid I was taking care of got a haircut (three years old and she’d literally never had one before).

    At some point, it is the parent’s duty to take care of the child, and that extends to medical decisions with profound long-term consequences. I get wanting to change the culture, but the degree to which people exaggerate the harm of circumcision struggles to eclipse the degree to which it is defended.

    Cutting off your legs also makes them easier to clean.

    There is some substantive utility to legs that doesn’t extend to the bit of flesh around the tip of your dick.

    dipshit ,

    Yeah but as a dad, i don’t like legs. I want my kid to look like me. I was amputated voluntarily. Legs get dirty anyway.

    Actually, why not just cut off the penis and replace it with a tube? That’s a lot cleaner and still functional!

    UnderpantsWeevil ,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    Yeah but as a dad, i don’t like legs.

    Correlating ear-piercing with decapitation, and holding a picket in front of “Forever 21” with a big sign that reads “STOP MURDERING CHILDREN” and a picture of a tunnel drill going through a baby’s forehead.

    dipshit ,

    Are you confident you understand what gentials are?

    What about your understanding of consent?

    UnderpantsWeevil ,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    Are you confident you understand what gentials are?

    Its when you’re not jewish.

    dipshit ,

    Yes, you are correct. Only jewish people have genitals. Thank you for playing.

    UnderpantsWeevil ,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    Only jewish people have genitals.

    I’m sorry, what’s up bro?

    dipshit ,

    Besides autocorrect spelling genitals gentials, not much, bro.

    physicswizard ,

    I think they’re trying to make a pun based on how the word “gentile” (which literally means not jewish) sounds very similar to “genital”.

    dipshit ,

    Yeah, I got it thanks. I wish my autocorrect wouldn’t interject itself into conversations but here we are.

    Good laugh. 10/10 would laugh again.

    HelloHotel , (edited )
    @HelloHotel@lemmy.world avatar

    If this is /s its verry funny and asys somthing interesting, im frustrated that the thread has fallen into a false dichotomy,

    Its not ‘not okay’ in the same way its ‘not okay’ to cut off someones leg because thats unamniguiosly being crippled. (Good spoof though!) its amniguiosly immoral.

    dipshit ,

    Yeah a better analogy would probably be female genital mutilation but americans generally aren’t familiar with that.

    The real issue is consent. I get that parents consent for their children, but that doesn’t mean the parents are correctly predicting the kid’s preferences.

    It’s just a strange practice that we do in america, not due to religion, but due to … reasons? Cleanliness? “I want my son’s cock to look like mine?” it’s weird as hell, but accepted for some stupid reason.

    HelloHotel , (edited )
    @HelloHotel@lemmy.world avatar

    female genital mutilation

    okay… wow.

    circumcision is a harder to understand, wrapped in the cloak of medical hospitality to be blunt, its a different form of female genital mutilation.

    I believe its a remnant from old Christianity (Judaism?), where it would mark and/or purify the child in some way. If I’m not mistaken, the god of Abraham communicated that things like sacrificing lambs and other rituals isn’t useful as a sign of good will.

    but yet this literally unholy practice remains to this day.

    to be absolutely fair, mom said yes, telling me the doctors said there was some kind of health benefit, somthing about infections.

    dipshit ,

    A benefit that no one can seem to articulate, to this day.

    HelloHotel ,
    @HelloHotel@lemmy.world avatar

    Yeah, pretty sus

    MTK ,

    Honestly, can you elaborate on what would be a justified reason to do it?

    UnderpantsWeevil ,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    I mentioned in another comment how circumcision dramatically reduces the rate of spread of STDs. That is, at least from my perspective, the primary (and original) incentive to circumcise. Significantly less of an issue now, because you can just get a condom. But in areas where access to a consumer profilactic isn’t readily available or one in which STD infection is high, it would make a great deal of sense to perform the surgery as a preventative measure.

    Same as giving your kid vaccine shots or putting them in the NICU for the first few weeks of their life or demanding that they wash their hands regularly.

    Cockmaster6000 ,

    I’m sorry, cutting off a newborn’s foreskin is the same as washing their hands?

    Did you eat a lot of paint chips growing up?

    GreyEyedGhost ,

    I don’t think this is the original reason, but it has been found to happen. Also, your risk of penile cancer goes to almost zero, as well as fewer and less serious complications related to the foreskin (or its absence). Going fully nude while circumcised is a dangerous game, though.

    MTK ,

    Source?

    GreyEyedGhost ,

    Here’s what the CDC had to say about their original statements and a rebuttal to criticisms about circumcision. It only obliquely mentions genital cancer, but this article specifically discusses that.

    LillyPip , (edited )

    circumcision dramatically reduces the rate of spread of STDs

    Source? Most of the world doesn’t circumcise, and they don’t have a higher prevalence of STDs than places that do. As long as you practice good hygiene, there should be no issues.

    That is, at least from my perspective, the primary (and original) incentive to circumcise

    No it wasn’t. It originated thousands of years ago as a Jewish religious ritual, that had no biological or scientific basis. It was popularised in the US about 100 years ago as a way to reduce sensation in the penis in order to stop teenage boys from masturbating – by Dr Kellogg, for the same reason he invented cornflakes. He was hyper-religious and fixated on stopping boys corrupting themselves by masturbating. The hygiene myths came later and have been debunked.

    It’s an outdated practice based on bad science and beliefs that should stop. That’s not to say anyone should feel bad for having done it when we didn’t really know better, but there’s no reason to continue doing it now.

    e: missed a word

    Emerald ,

    I agree with all that except for one thing. Kellogg did not invent corn flakes to stop people from masturbating. He did mention once that a bland diet could be used to deter masturbation, but there is no coorelation to corn flakes.

    LillyPip , (edited )

    He did, though. I currently live less than an hour from his museum in Battle Creek, Michigan, and there are lots of things about him that aren’t widely shared on the internet.

    Did you know that one of his biggest accomplishments was a foster home for orphans that was destroyed by fire? Running that foster home was what inspired his obsession with a bland diet and with circumcision. He was very strict with their diet, believing certain grains would purify the soul (first oatmeal) – the original, unadulterated grains that were mentioned in the bible. The boys in his home weren’t accepting of his extreme version of Christianity, and he thought that was mostly because they were corrupting themselves bodily. He thought all boys weren’t receptive to Christianity because they were too into their own desires, and he could fix that. First by diet, and when that didn’t work, by cutting off the part of their penis that distracted them by making them feel good, thus tempting them from god’s word. He was a doctor, so people listened.

    This is all Wikipedia dedicates to that part of the story:

    Kellogg was outspoken about his views on race and his belief in racial segregation, regardless of the fact that he himself raised several black foster children.

    So it’s understandable people are downplaying that part of his life. If you live near here, you know the details the internet has mostly forgotten.

    We really need to stop chopping up infant boys based on the ideas of a bigoted religious fundamentalist.

    e: clarity

    el_abuelo ,

    Not so dramatically you can not wear a condom. So given you’re going to strap up anyway, what’s the benefit to having surgery on your genitals?

    UnderpantsWeevil ,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    CDC has a whole thing on it

    Circumcised men compared with uncircumcised men have also been shown in clinical trials to be less likely to acquire new infections with syphilis (by 42%), genital ulcer disease (by 48%), genital herpes (by 28% to 45%), and high-risk strains of human papillomavirus associated with cancer (by 24% to 47% percent)

    By all means, you should still wrap that shit. But if you’re living in a rural community or one that has a strong stigma against contraception, or you’re just in a place where the disease is rampant and you need a secondary precautionary policy, this will have a meaningful impact on disease spread.

    el_abuelo ,

    The majority of US citizens do not fall into those categories, and for that reason I see it as an unnecessary procedure that is more cultural than scientific.

    UnderpantsWeevil ,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    The majority of US citizens do not fall into those categories

    They did once, and they very well might in the near future, depending on how we handle legal contraception going forward.

    MTK ,

    As far as I am aware there is only one study done in Africa that showed that there is a correlation between circumcision and a reduced chance to get HIV.

    But that is the only study and only HIV, not all STIs.

    Also this is moot in most of the world where you have access to condoms.

    UnderpantsWeevil ,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    CDC has a whole thing on it

    Circumcised men compared with uncircumcised men have also been shown in clinical trials to be less likely to acquire new infections with syphilis (by 42%), genital ulcer disease (by 48%), genital herpes (by 28% to 45%), and high-risk strains of human papillomavirus associated with cancer (by 24% to 47% percent)

    By all means, you should still wrap that shit. But if you’re living in a rural community or one that has a strong stigma against contraception, or you’re just in a place where the disease is rampant and you need a secondary precautionary policy, this will have a meaningful impact on disease spread.

    MTK ,

    Still not really reasonable, especially considering that for the most part this decision can just wait until adulthood

    JasonDJ ,

    Foster kid is a different situation but in general seriously don’t bring someone else’s kid to their first haircut. Thats an important moment for parents. It’s a major milestone, especially with girls. That original in-utero hair behaves different.

    Three years isn’t that weird. I know a girl who was 4 for her first. She had the most gorgeous, long curls. It was really hard for her mom to get rid of those.

    Know a couple boys who were each three too. They look like totally different kids once they lost all their baby curls.

    Mediocre_Bard ,

    Being able to turn the end of my dick into a water balloon is all the substantive utility I require, sir.

    UnderpantsWeevil ,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    A perk of living in a modern world.

    ThatWeirdGuy1001 ,
    @ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world avatar

    What’s even funnier to me is how people will full on rage when someone brings up female genital mutilation while in the same breath saying circumcision is fine

    Microw ,

    The main problem is that people tend to intuitively think of the least invasive form of male circumcision and the most horrific form of female genital mutilation.

    For both genders, all kinds of forms exist

    Serinus ,

    the least invasive form of male circumcision

    Is what’s in these discussions.

    the most horrific form of female genital mutilation.

    Is there any other kind in regular discussion? When people refer to FGM, they’re not talking about labiaplasty (which would be a more appropriate comparison).

    KairuByte , (edited )

    labiaplasty (which would be a more appropriate comparison).

    How are you coming to this conclusion?

    The foreskin has more nerve endings than the glans, and double that of the clitoris. The labia in contrast has much fewer nerve endings, which is why sexual stimulation is not easily accomplished with simply stimulating the labia. Possible? Yes. But not nearly to the same degree as clitoral stimulation.

    Edit: Given the lack of elaboration, I’ll have to assume the conclusions reached by a gut reaction of “skin is skin” which is not at all how this works.

    Cockmaster6000 ,

    A labiaplasty is not equivalent to removal of the foreskin. It would be like removing the clitoral hood. Educate yourself before sharing your thoughts please.

    TheGrandNagus , (edited )

    People will defend the most batshit insane things just because they’re used to it.

    But I also think there’s an element of (understandable) insecurity to it.

    If they concluded that mutilating the penises of babies is wrong, then that makes their penis “wrong”, and society is really weird and judgemental about penises. There’s a huge amount of pressure applied to men about their genitals.

    We constantly talk about big dicks and “big dick” energy. Casually saying someone has a small, soft, or ugly dick is seen as a scathing insult, we constantly mock people for it, both in life and in media. Comments about their penises is something used to build up or knock down men. It’s used to make them feel powerful and manly, or weak and emasculated.

    It’s no wonder people rally so hard against those who want to see an end to male genital mutilation. The very victims of it typically don’t want to feel like their dick is “wrong”, because society at large has told them that if their dick is bad, they aren’t real men.

    Emerald ,

    I think it’s important that circumcised people realize that their body isn’t wrong, but rather the procedure is wrong (without a medically necessary reason).

    LillyPip ,

    People will defend the most batshit insane things just because they’re used to it.

    ITT…

    LillyPip , (edited )

    Dude, yeah. It’s so weird.

    I refused circumcision for my son (25 years ago, US hospital), and had to remind the staff several times because it was just assumed it would be done. I stopped them 3 times during different shifts when they were about to take him from our room for the procedure.

    Then when it came up in conversation when he was an infant, people would say to me ‘you should have done it’, because he would get infections (he never did), or he’d be bullied in gym showers (he never did to my knowledge), or whatever. My take was it should be his decision, not mine.

    The pressure was really intense, though. It’s weird how interested people can be in someone else’s infant’s penis. We’ve never talked about it, but reading stories from other men, I assume he’s happy being uncut, and I’m glad I didn’t do it.

    e: for anyone reading this days later, I did ask my son for his opinion prompted by this conversation, mostly because of responses I got elsewhere in this thread that made me question my decision:

    Me: Hey man, so feel free not to answer this if it’s too personal, but I was having a debate about circumcision and another parent challenged me saying I’d made the wrong decision. So yes/no/I don’t want to talk about it cuz that’s weird, do you regret my decision?

    Son: I don’t, and none of my partners have, either. I only get thumbs up and compliments. I hope that wasn’t too personal.

    Me: Not at all. Thank you for giving me your and your partners’ review!

    So yeah, it’s not just my assumptions. And no regrets.

    Serinus ,

    My take was it should be his decision, not mine.

    It’s not though. They’ll never be able to go back and have it done as an infant. Time machines don’t exist.

    The procedure is much, much easier as an infant than it is as a boy or teenager or adult.

    I respect whatever decision you made. There are reasons for both. But no, he didn’t have the option to go back and have it done easily.

    And sorry about the pressure. You shouldn’t have to go through that, and I hope/expect that aspect is better after 25 years.

    TseseJuer ,

    every slice and dice would be easier as an infant as you wouldn’t remember it anyway. you’re an idiot

    nomous ,

    Might as well just go ahead and remove their appendix and tonsils too right? They’ll heal right up and won’t remember a thing right?

    LillyPip ,

    Without anaesthesia, too.

    ThatWeirdGuy1001 ,
    @ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world avatar

    I actually think about the ignored psychological effects of dealing with that level of physical pain so soon after being born a lot.

    Birth is already a traumatic experience for both mother and infant. But to then immediately, with no anesthesia, cut an extremely sensitive part of the infants body off? That has to leave some kind of mental scarring.

    sixCats ,

    I think there are studies looking into exactly this, it’s worth looking for

    LillyPip ,

    I can actually speak to this.

    I was born with a genetic condition affecting my collagen (Ehlers Danlos), which meant my bones were overly soft and, since I was breach til moments before birth, my legs were bowed pretty severely. This was in 1971, and the treatment at that time was the doctors literally bent my legs into position manually and then braced them for my first few years. That’s not how they deal with it nowadays, because they learnt it was horribly painful.

    I don’t remember that initial experience, obviously, but my mother tells me several years later when I was a young child and having problems walking, she took me to the doctor and they finally worked out that I was in excruciating pain all the time. They asked why I hadn’t said anything and I told them it was because everyone was always in excruciating pain, but nobody else was complaining about it, so I shouldn’t either. I’d been in pain since birth, and just figured it was normal.

    That experience prevented me from getting proper care and made my early childhood hell. I still have emotional trauma from it. So yeah, early pain is not benign.

    LillyPip ,

    It is. You can always cut something off later, but you can’t just put it back once it’s gone.

    Based on this conversation, I actually asked him:

    Me: Hey man, so feel free not to answer this if it’s too personal, but I was having a debate about circumcision and another parent challenged me saying I’d made the wrong decision. So yes/no/I don’t want to talk about it cuz that’s weird, do you regret my decision?

    Son: I don’t, and none of my partners have, either. I only get thumbs up and compliments. I hope that wasn’t too personal.

    Me: Not at all. Thank you for giving me your and your partners’ review!

    So yeah, no regrets.

    Emerald ,

    he’d be bullied in gym showers

    what? why would people be seeing your kids genitals in a gym shower? That makes no sense

    ThatWeirdGuy1001 , (edited )
    @ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world avatar

    Have you never been in a highschool where using the gym showers was normal?

    Edit: shorts to showers because autocorrect has become dogshit

    Emerald ,

    I’m assuming you mean gym showers and not gym shorts. I still don’t get why someone would see someone elses penis in a gym shower. Unless they peeked into the stall or somathing, but that would be sexual harrassment.

    el_abuelo ,

    You’re forgetting that communal showers is a thing

    Emerald ,

    Wouldn’t they be seperated with stalls? If not that is quite the privacy violation

    ThatWeirdGuy1001 ,
    @ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world avatar

    My middle school gym locker room had completely open showers. Like the kind you see in prison scenes on TV. No dividers. No curtains. Just an open room with a bunch of shower heads

    Emerald ,

    That’s horrifying

    ThatWeirdGuy1001 ,
    @ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world avatar

    You survive in the environment you find yourself in ¯⁠\⁠⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠⁠/⁠¯

    el_abuelo ,

    Bit of an overreaction. Same-sex facility sharing has been a staple part of human society for thousands of years. We seem to have done okay so I’m not too worried or “horrified”. I guess it’s just not something you’ve come across so it seems unusual to you.

    el_abuelo ,

    Depends I guess. They’re cheaper to do the open style so in poor schools and sports facilities you tend to get them.

    If you’ve been fortunate enough to go to decent schools and not played sports outside of well funded institutions then you probably wouldn’t have come across them.

    LillyPip ,

    Not just in poor schools. My area is pretty affluent, but the school was built in the 1940s, and that’s just how it was back then. I went to that high school for a year (I’m 54) and never saw the boys’, but the girls’ was wide open. I assume the boys’ was too.

    Boldizzle ,
    @Boldizzle@lemmy.world avatar

    Where the hell did this infections BS come from? I’ve got mine and have never had any infections or am I just really lucky?

    Sweetpeaches69 ,

    I like mine cut tbh; I think it looks nice.

    Emerald ,

    That’s fine, as long as that isn’t used as a justification to normalize this procedure’s continued use without medical necessity.

    Serinus ,

    I ain’t going around telling anyone how to raise their kids.

    TseseJuer ,

    what does hacking an infant’s wiener up have to do with raising children?

    TheGrandNagus , (edited )

    I mean, people just like what they’re used to.

    If you never got circumcised, you’d likely be saying “I prefer uncut. Looks a bit weird with a piece missing.”

    I’m willing to bet if you surveyed, say, Israel or Saudi Arabia, on what looks better between chopped and natural, they’ll say circumcised. And if you surveyed, say, Australia or Spain, they’ll say uncircumcised looks better.

    trolololol ,

    High five to uncut team

    Maggoty ,

    That wasn’t the original reason. It was to stop masturbation. The whole cleaning thing was a later rationalization when they realized how fucked up it was.

    Daft_ish , (edited )

    Jokes on them. Masterbation has never been in higher demand.

    Digestive_Biscuit ,
    @Digestive_Biscuit@feddit.uk avatar

    Everyone has been side lined by the tobacco industry nobody stopped to look at the moisturiser industry.

    RagingRobot ,

    Yeah instead of doing it at birth they should have done it as a punishment for people who masturbate. That would have worked much better

    Jarix ,

    First I agree with you. Need to say that first.

    If you go back to the beginning of this procedure, how(/if) people cleaned themselves looks very different from. Our modern world.

    Because of that it seems it being a health issue is a lot more likely for the origin of circumscision as a regular societal practice. Even if that was not the main reason but one of the supporting reasons people allowed it to become normalized. The history of hygiene(or the lack there of) is horrifying.

    I mean Lysol was developed as a feminine hygiene product… We have done some very questionable things because of snakeoil practices even in relatively modern times (which i think religion is one of the OG snakeoils)

    What are we doing today that will look as crazy to the people of the future as circumcision does to many of us right now I wonder?

    adamantris ,
    @adamantris@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    I am for one happy to be circumcised (i had a really awful, treatment resistant inflammation, circumcision on young people for no reason is shit)

    stoly ,

    I had the same experience. Circumcision made my life so much better.

    SendMePhotos ,

    I am not unhappy to be circumcised. Idk.

    spicytuna62 ,
    @spicytuna62@lemmy.world avatar

    I’m not unhappy about being circumcised, but I’ll never know what it’s like to be uncircumcised, and I’m not not unhappy about that.

    SnipingNinja ,

    Triple negative, that’s a rare one

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