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MehBlah , (edited ) to technology in Microsoft addresses Windows Recall backlash, promises to fix security issues and make it opt-in

There is no way I’m going to use a machine where they can turn on something remotely through a update or some other fashion. I probably won’t even have a 11 vm at home now. I’ll keep the 10 vm for its minor uses until it can no longer do the few things I use it for but that is it for me. Remove that garbage or lose more of us macroshaft.

BombOmOm , (edited )
@BombOmOm@lemmy.world avatar

It boggles the mind this isn’t an external download you have to specifically navigate to their website to download and install. The fact it is soon to be on Win 11 systems, just a toggle away, is terrifying. Particularly since lots of people handle your personal data, while data collectors like this are on their machines (and many of those machines will have the collector turned on).

RustyShackleford ,

I wish, now have a i9-14900KF, so guessing no more Windows 10 anymore. Planning to make a Linux partition, but frustrating the way that Windows tries so adamantly to take boot priority.

vikingtons ,
@vikingtons@lemmy.world avatar

I’d recommend separate physical disks if possible. Set your boot order via uefi

RustyShackleford ,

Thanks. I’ve personally never altered boot order before, but it can’t be too complicated, right?

vikingtons ,
@vikingtons@lemmy.world avatar

It’s not very intuitive but it isn’t so bad once you’re familiar; you can take a look at this whenever’s convenient for you.

When you boot the system, you should briefly see your BIOS splash screen, along with the key combo to get into your BIOS setup menu. Let us know which mainboard vendor you have and we may be able to tell you in advance (For Asus, it’s usually F2, for Gigabyte its the Delete key, for MSI it might be F12 etc). I just mash the specified key when prompted until I’m in.

There’s usually also a key that you can hit to select a temporary boot device (I.e. I can hit F12 on my gigabyte board to select any OS detected by the BIOS, not just boot into the top entry).

Once you’re in, have a look for the ‘Boot’ section. You should have the capability to define your boot order. These entries can consist of traditional disks connected via SATA/SCSI/m.2, USB drives, network locations etc.

You can arrange this boot order however you like.

I would also recommended temporarily disconnecting any existing drives when installing an OS on your system (e.g.: Windows attempts to store its bootloader on SATA 0 by default, even if the OS isn’t destined for that drive).

flappy ,

Is Windows 10 unsupported by the newest processors?

RustyShackleford ,

I looked it up shortly after posting, surprisingly seems like Windows 10 is supported, but 11 did better in a few of the tests.

elias_griffin , to technology in A PR disaster: Microsoft has lost trust with its users, and Windows Recall is the straw that broke the camel's back
@elias_griffin@lemmy.world avatar

OH, it was been a long time coming seeing this type of headline again, it’s…glorius!

Microsoft is most years a #1 and sometimes a #2 Funder of: Rust, Python, and Linux. Are those destined for an E^3 “rug pull” too? Will it ever stop this kind of behavior, consistently conforming our behavior to itself with the money and industry position it leverages?

Don’t forget in calculating that industry position that OpenAI is now able to contract to the DoD for offensive capability.

kilgore_trout ,

Linux is not dependent on money, they have no influence over it.

Warl0k3 ,

While the influence is much smaller than with windows or apple, it’s still there. Linux is hardened against capitalism, but if we start believing that it has no influence we set ourselves up for Debian Pro+ in the future. Just because it’s good now doesn’t mean it capitalism can’t shit all over it faster than we believe possible…

NutWrench ,
@NutWrench@lemmy.world avatar

This. “Embrace. Extend. Extinguish.” has been Microsoft’s mantra for a long time, now. Folks need to recognize the signs that their favorite things are being targeted before they get ruined.

bluewing ,

Oh you sweet innocent. Major distros like Ubuntu and RedHat already are peddling open source AI for their enterprise customers.

Debian Pro+ is here and has been for a while…

kilgore_trout ,

But Debian still stands, and is not going anywhere.

bluewing ,

So does Slack. But while they are 2 of the foundational distros, neither is the first go to choice of the average user. Neither distro caters to the mainstream user. If you are choosing either of those two distros, you are definitely old school and/or are looking for a solution to problem that is perhaps more of an edge case.

dumblederp , to technology in Microsoft addresses Windows Recall backlash, promises to fix security issues and make it opt-in

Trust is difficult to earn and easy to lose.

Valmond ,

When did they earn it last time?

XP was made stable to counter Linux, it wasn’t something like trying to earn trust IMO.

Overlock ,
@Overlock@sopuli.xyz avatar

deleted_by_author

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  • Valmond ,

    How did that earn them trust?? Making something that works?

    kevin , to technology in Microsoft addresses Windows Recall backlash, promises to fix security issues and make it opt-in

    We have seen this game 100 times. Opt in for now and then turned on for everyone 6-12 months later. It’s just a temporary move to handle the bad PR.

    Gormadt ,
    @Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    You forgot the best part

    Silently turned on via “security” update

    Ozonowsky ,
    @Ozonowsky@lemmy.world avatar

    It’s a security update because it adds new security vulnerabilities.

    bobs_monkey ,

    Same as it ever was

    WhoIsRich ,
    @WhoIsRich@lemmy.world avatar

    Or the other trick of constantly prompting “Turn on / Maybe Later” until people either accidentally accept or just give up to make nagging stop.

    DarkDarkHouse ,
    @DarkDarkHouse@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    That guy at the club who won’t fuck off

    merthyr1831 ,

    registry switch that’ll mysteriously reset itself. we’ve had this shit with countless windows configurations at work that our IT guy has to battle with on the regular.

    conciselyverbose ,

    I’ve had so many people jump down my throat for listing some of the many obviously fucked things Microsoft did on my PC just over the life of Windows 10. (And not that it should matter, but I even paid for Pro).

    I turned all their various advertising and spying “features” off through legitimate settings, group policies, whatever, and the list of things that reverted themselves over time was insane.

    ouRKaoS ,

    User: Goes through 15 step process to turn off unwanted “feature”.

    Windows: I turned this on, in case it got turned off accidentally. I’ll do this every reboot.

    helenslunch ,
    @helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

    And not that it should matter, but I even paid for Pro

    It should matter though. If MS wants to give away Windows for free, then users should expect compromised privacy. But it’s not. They charge hundreds for it.

    If Windows made a paid version that was private and secure, and that the user was in control of, I would buy it in a heartbeat.

    conciselyverbose ,

    If they were giving away Windows for free, their behavior would still be unforgivable.

    There is no scenario where any operating system including spyware or ads can ever theoretically be acceptable behavior. Any person who contributes in any way to that happening belongs in a prison cell.

    helenslunch ,
    @helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

    Well that’s the only way a “free” product is sustainable.

    conciselyverbose ,

    Linux is free qnd plenty sustainable.

    If you can’t support providing something for free via a mechanism that isn’t pure and unadulterated evil, then don’t do it for free. “We have to be monsters to make money” is not a valid position.

    helenslunch ,
    @helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

    Linux is free qnd plenty sustainable.

    It also has a vast array of enormous compromises, which is why no one uses it.

    arf ,

    I understand you have qualms with Linux, and that’s plenty fine, but when the large majority of servers and smartphones around the world run it, you can’t say that no one uses it.

    conciselyverbose ,

    That’s not true at all. It has a huge market share, just not in desktops.

    But again, that’s completely and utterly irrelevant. If being evil is the only way for your business/product to exist, it does not deserve to exist.

    helenslunch ,
    @helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

    Yeah dude, there’s nothing they can do to fix this. They have eroded the trust of their users for decades. It will take them decades to get it back, if they actually tried.

    Also it took hackers days to find vulnerabilities. Which is a massive security concern.

    arf ,

    Can anyone give me examples of times Windows has done this in the past? I mean, I feel like this is true, but I legit can’t think of anything that matches this.

    odelik ,

    In the last 6 months:

    • One Drive reinstalled and turned back on on my personal & work computer multiple times.
    • AI Co-pilot added to my machine and enabled “so you can start using it now!” with an obtrusive pinned shortcut on my start bar, to both of the same machines but at different time intervals. Uninstalling is virtually impossible and requires registry mods to 'remove" it. Not even a powers he’ll command can remove it.

    I don’t want, or need, this add-on garbage.

    arf ,

    Perfect examples, thank you 👌

    JasonDJ , to technology in A PR disaster: Microsoft has lost trust with its users, and Windows Recall is the straw that broke the camel's back

    You know what would be a nice thing to put into windows?

    A fucking decent way to search for files.

    Also, grep and tail, as implemented in Linux. It’s 2024 and there’s no native equivalent to tail -f *.log. How embarrassing.

    Tamo240 ,
    
    <span style="color:#323232;">Get-Content <path> -wait
    </span>
    

    Or do you mean in cmd not powershell?

    JasonDJ ,

    IME this doesn’t work for multiple files. Not nearly as well as tail -f *.

    Plenty of times I’m troubleshooting something without knowing which log file I should pay attention to. So watching everything happen in realtime with the error helps, a ton.

    explodicle ,

    Windows Search used to be awesome, and then they decided to over-complicate it.

    grrgyle ,

    I distinctly remember that once it has indexed everything, it was pretty fast, yeah. Back in the 00s anyway

    letsgo ,

    I doubt the majority of MS users need to tail a log file. And of those of us that do, how many don’t know that Notepad++ does it?

    e8d79 ,

    File search is really awful on windows for no reason at all. Your complaints about commandline utilities is not accurate though. Windows has native powershell equivalents to both grepand tail. You use https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/powershell/module/microsoft.powershell.utility/select-string?view=powershell-7.4 instead of grep and https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/powershell/module/microsoft.powershell.management/get-content?view=powershell-7.4#-wait instead of tail.

    JasonDJ ,

    IME Get-Content doesn’t work for multiple files. Unless maybe I put it in a foreach loop or something. But that’s way more keystrokes then tail -f *

    e8d79 ,

    Nobody ever accused powershell of being concise. Its uses a completely different philosophy, object oriented rather than string based. This makes powershell nicer to write scripts in but also makes it worse at bash style one-liner commands.

    snailfact ,

    get listary it’s freemium (i use free version forever and it works fine) you can search by double tapping control and it instantly gives you the files you search for

    joe_cool ,

    Get everything: www.voidtools.com (the alpha version can also index the content of files). It’s search is instant. As in < 1 second for any file on any of your harddisks (even ones not connected right now).

    For base linux cmdline tools I just install Git for Windows it includes tail, sed, grep, tee, iconv, less, scp and tons more. I need git anyways so win-win.

    elucubra ,

    I do small business support. Everytime I do a windows install I do a ninite install of a bunch of things. Everything is always in the set. The fucntionality should have been in windows since NTFS was introduced

    joe_cool ,

    Yeah, even XP had Rover, the search dog.

    Ninite and Chocolatey helps a bit. But then you get to the point where there is no automation for a start menu entry for some packages. It’s a bit of a mess.

    A colleague installed Python from the MS Store on Windows 11 it messed up all python software, PyCharm, the other python versions and some file associations. Quite a mess.

    oo1 ,
    MacNCheezus ,
    @MacNCheezus@lemmy.today avatar

    Have you heard of WSL?

    grrgyle ,

    As someone who does product dev support, unfortunately I have.

    retrospectology , (edited )
    @retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

    You can do a commandline “dir /s *.log” to search an entire directory it works better than the normal file search generally. Unless I misunderstand what you’re asking.

    grrgyle ,

    -f follows the file so you can see updates as they come in to the bottom of the file. I wasn’t aware this worked with globs, but that’s neat.

    Is that what /s does? I haven’t used Windows in years.

    retrospectology ,
    @retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

    Oh, perhaps not. I may’ve just understood how you’re using the search. /s is just a straight search if the directory, I don’t know that it can be used to generate dynamic results like that. Go figure.

    VirtualOdour ,

    Isn’t that one of the things this does? It was in the advert wasn’t it?

    AWittyUsername , to technology in A PR disaster: Microsoft has lost trust with its users, and Windows Recall is the straw that broke the camel's back

    Apple ensures its operating systems are clean, polished, and without bloat.

    Except for all the uninstallable Apple bloat such as Apple Music, Apple TV, etc. And the numerous bugs and issues, such as still not being able to have the touch pad and mouse scroll wheel have different settings.

    echodot ,

    I remember when everyone was complaining about how terrible Safari is. The lead developer started having a go and ranting on Twitter, saying that raising bug reports is not constructive feedback.

    That was a mess.

    ReveredOxygen ,
    @ReveredOxygen@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Do you have any links? Not that I don’t believe you, I just can’t find anything on it and it seems very entertaining

    BleatingZombie ,

    This feels like the kind of thing I would watch a 2 hour long youtube deep dive video on, haha

    skulblaka ,
    @skulblaka@startrek.website avatar

    Where is hbomberguy when the world needs him

    DragonTypeWyvern ,

    Commiting war crimes against the letter h

    echodot ,

    I do have a Twitter account but for the life of me I can’t remember what the password is so I can’t actually see the responses, since apparently you need to sign in to see responses now, but if you do have Twitter you can see the responses here’s the link. x.com/jensimmons/status/1491064075987873792

    ICastFist ,
    @ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

    Some nitter instances might work. This one did. Not a shitshow at all, especially as she didn’t say that “bug reports aren’t constructive feedback”

    Everyone in my mentions saying Safari is the worst, it’s the new IE… Can you point to specific bugs & missing support that frustrate you, inhibit you making websites/apps. Bonus points for links to tickets. Specifics we can fix. Vague hate is honestly super counterproductive."

    There’s plenty of bug reports in there and she’s behaving how I’d expect a developer to: by asking further questions and version use for stuff that should be fixed. Didn’t see any point where she lost her temper in any way

    xcancel.com/jensimmons/…/1491064075987873792

    echodot ,

    She refused to acknowledge the existence of issues and point-blank refused to fix existing bugs.

    Claiming apple is the new internet explorer is only untrue in the sense that it understates the nature of the issue.

    dan , (edited )
    @dan@upvote.au avatar

    Safari is still a pain for frontend developers to deal with. At least IE6 was a static target and we were well aware of all the bugs. Some of the bugs and workarounds even had names, like the “peekaboo bug” and the Holly Hack".

    Safari is a moving target that has so many bugs and issues that none of the other major browsers have.

    Tja ,

    I caught the tail end of IE6 webdev, but the idea was basically “let jquery figure it out”. Not too painful tbh.

    ripcord ,
    @ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

    Yeah, the main takeaway here is “Apple Bad”

    weststadtgesicht ,

    The main takeaway of this article about Microsoft’s horrible decisions is “Apple bad”? OS flame wars really haven’t gotten less ridiculous in the past decades…

    ripcord ,
    @ripcord@lemmy.world avatar

    I was making a sarcastic response to the comment above mine and its chain, which devolved mindlessly into “Apple bad” as things tend to when Apple is mentioned.

    moon ,

    No it’s that Linux is good

    billwashere ,

    Apple is not blameless but they are a shit-ton better than Microsoft. I have to have M$ for a few work apps but I’m primarily MacOS for desktop and Linux for everything server-side. I avoid M$ as much as possible.

    AWittyUsername ,

    I agree. But everyone acts like Apple’s shit doesn’t stink.

    ZILtoid1991 ,

    Don’t forget the fact they’re locked onto luxury hardware, and you can’t build your own flavor for it. Even worse is, notebook manufacturers copied them so much there’s less variations among them. I was looking for some “subnotebook” as a potential portable PC, but I had like a few options (many of which would have included AliExpress junk), but there’s an endless supply of same-looking 14-16" ones, that are thin (“real” portability according to techbros), lightweight, “desktop replacements”, and run at a constant 95°C.

    phoenixz , to technology in A PR disaster: Microsoft has lost trust with its users, and Windows Recall is the straw that broke the camel's back

    And yet again, install Linux. Leave Microsoft behind

    CaptPretentious ,

    You mean like Ubuntu , who put adds in as well.

    Tywele ,

    Choose a different distro then.

    CaptPretentious ,

    That’s not a valid argument.

    So someone looking to buy a new machine has a few options. They have MacOS, Windows, Chromebook, or Linux. And there’s a high probability that when they’re at a shop be it online or in person looking for a Linux machine it’s probably going to be Ubuntu.

    You don’t get to tell the user, “well you picked the wrong distro, lol” when all they wanted was something that runs the software and hardware they want. The vast majority of users want something that just works, not have to become some expert.

    And also, it’s rather dismissive, I show an example of Linux doing the same thing that Apple and Microsoft do… Ubuntu is still Linux.

    mypasswordis1234 ,
    @mypasswordis1234@lemmy.world avatar

    Users have the right to choose the Linux distribution that best suits their needs. Different Linux distributions offer different features and user experiences. To downplay these differences and claim that all distributions are the same is ignorant. Anyone who wants to get the most out of Linux should be aware of the wealth of options available.

    It’s like buying shoes - if someone says they’re too tight, you can say, “You picked the wrong size, lol.” Each pair of shoes is different in many ways.

    So, if you can’t understand that different Linux distributions provide different experiences, it’s better for you to stick with Windows, which offers a uniform experience, and not argue about it.

    CaptPretentious ,

    To downplay these differences and claim that all distributions are the same is ignorant. Anyone who wants to get the most out of Linux should be aware of the wealth of options available.

    That’s the definition of not being user friendly. And it’s not like shoes. Because trying on a pair of shoes takes minutes, at a store that generally has hundreds of shoes available. And shoes literally do one thing. Your average user does not have nor want to spend nights and weekends troubleshooting the distro they’re ‘trying out’ to see if it works best, then to continue troubleshooting it down the road.

    But I do like how you ignored a lot of what of what I said, because it didn’t fit your response. Because unlike you apparently, I think of people besides myself. You also make wild assumptions about me. Should I show you my RHEL installation? CentOS? My Debian servers… I have dedicated hardware and VMs. And I also run Windows. Do I get to have an argument now… do I pass your weird gatekeeping threshold?

    And that’s still not addressing the circle jerk where far to many people put linux on some pedestal, worship it, and assume their better than everyone because “btw, I use arch”. Like every distro isn’t going to try to milk as much money out of it as they can if they think they can get away with it. Ubuntu is the most approachable distro (that I’m aware of) and often gets suggested, especially to new uses. Linux is not immune to the problems that plague MacOS or Windows.

    HotsauceHurricane , to technology in Microsoft addresses Windows Recall backlash, promises to fix security issues and make it opt-in

    Def considering fedora for my surface 7. Microsoft & their shit is unacceptable.

    01189998819991197253 ,
    @01189998819991197253@infosec.pub avatar
    HotsauceHurricane ,

    Ive been using linux for like a year & a half !

    01189998819991197253 ,
    @01189998819991197253@infosec.pub avatar

    Sweet! I was just being funny with my GIF, but I do honestly love the OS ecosystem, and think that everyone will like it more than Windows if only they’d give it the proper opportunity.

    HotsauceHurricane ,

    Im running a manjaro+openbox disto called MABOX linux on my chromebook. It’s fantastic for the low spec nonsense machine. But def considering fedora for the surface. Its come a long way apparently.

    01189998819991197253 ,
    @01189998819991197253@infosec.pub avatar

    I’m actually having issues with fedora silverblue not updating. It’s pretty frustrating, but a risk I knew going into immutable. I don’t have time right now to figure out a fix. Regardless, I would totally do fedora again and recommend it to nonbeginners. It’s an awesome variant, even coming into it from debian-based distros with only cursory knowledge of dnf.

    HotsauceHurricane ,

    I feel ya. I tried to revert back to kernel 6.7 from 6.9 and now my chromebook is being a turd.

    EmperorHenry , to technology in A PR disaster: Microsoft has lost trust with its users, and Windows Recall is the straw that broke the camel's back
    @EmperorHenry@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

    you can use O&O shutup10++ to disable recall now

    JustARegularNerd ,

    The fact that we need a third party program to make our computer respect our privacy should say it all for Windows.

    EmperorHenry ,
    @EmperorHenry@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

    You still need to configure things in every linux distro to make it work. And apple doesn’t allow you to configure anything that matters at all

    ulkesh , to technology in A PR disaster: Microsoft has lost trust with its users, and Windows Recall is the straw that broke the camel's back
    @ulkesh@lemmy.world avatar

    I’m telling everyone I know it’s time to move to Linux, or worst case Mac.

    FiniteBanjo ,

    Mac is not better in any circumstance. Except maybe power efficiency but I doubt that’s going to last for long.

    TheFeatureCreature ,
    @TheFeatureCreature@lemmy.world avatar

    MacOS is a highly mature, stable, and user-friendly OS that, at least for now, Apple does not meddle with in the same ways that MS has been doing with Windows. It has its problems, yes, but to say “any circumstance” is extreme. I don’t like or agree with everything that Apple has done to MacOS but at least Apple isn’t actively trashing it into the ground with forced bloat, ads, malware, etc like MS is doing.

    kayazere ,

    They are definitely are starting to trash it with ads for their own services, user hostile behavior/dark patterns (try turning off Bluetooth and applying a software update, it will be magically back on), and have ruined the UI slowly turning it in to iOS.

    ulkesh ,
    @ulkesh@lemmy.world avatar

    I have used a Mac since 2007 (almost exclusively for work) and many of Apple’s services during that time. I have not experienced any ads as you describe. As for Bluetooth magically turning back on after a software update, of course I do not know for certain, but that screams incompetence more than it screams intent. Apple most definitely has problems (where they build their hardware, policies they tried to enact and then backtracked, etc). And I’m not advocating for them like I am for Linux and other open source solutions. But if a normal user doesn’t want to deal with some of the lingering complexities that Linux still has (which is a dwindling number), then a Mac is a relatively viable alternative and it does not come anywhere near as close to the privacy nightmare that Microsoft has become.

    I am not tribal at all with respect to any of these entities. I have used all three OSes for the better part of 25 years. I have watched the ebbs and flows of Microsoft, Apple, Adobe, Canonical, Red Hat, and various FOSS solutions such as Linux, for a very long time. And I have had a front row seat seeing Apple’s mistakes, Microsoft’s mistakes, Canonical’s mistakes, and so forth. And I feel I can judge with some semblance of realism and objectivity – Microsoft has failed so hard with Recall and they are so out of touch with what users want, they deserve every bit of ire they are getting, and they deserve to have their market share diminish because of it. Aside from perhaps Google, and now Adobe, I haven’t seen a technology company be so blatantly and willfully aggressive (and one could say, stupid) when it comes to these actions and topics.

    kayazere ,

    The Bluetooth issue also happens on iOS, so I think it is an explicit choice, as Apple wants as many devices contributing to their Find My Network. It’s also the reason they changed control center on iOS to no longer turn off Wifi and Bluetooth, but to disconnect the current connections.

    ulkesh ,
    @ulkesh@lemmy.world avatar

    I’ve not run into this, but I also use Bluetooth on both devices (my work Mac and my personal phone) so it’s usually enabled. I also rely on Find My capabilities, so I suppose I’m their target audience. However, if they are purposefully re-enabling even after a user explicitly disables, then I agree completely that that is anti-user/anti-consumer/anti-privacy and they should be brought to task for it.

    FiniteBanjo ,

    Lmao nice

    You might want to add the /s tho, some people might not get it.

    afraid_of_zombies ,

    I’m telling everyone I know

    Vegan, European, CrossFit, Linux, born again

    aBundleOfFerrets ,

    Seeing “European” is all you need to know this is rage bait

    SkyeStarfall ,

    How many times do people need to get fucked over by privatized black box software before they realize that FOSS has a point?

    ulkesh ,
    @ulkesh@lemmy.world avatar

    Just like people who are beholden to their politics or their religion, they’ll get fucked over as often as possible until they’re dead. The majority of people are tribal and sadly they see Microsoft, Google, Apple, etc as some kind of extension of their tribal identity.

    ulkesh ,
    @ulkesh@lemmy.world avatar

    Helping people to prevent their privacy from being completely screwed isn’t the same as feeling superior and smug about one’s choices, lifestyle, or where one lives. The sooner people understand the difference, the better.

    But sure.

    I also use Arch, btw…got any “witty” response to it?

    secretlyaddictedtolinux ,

    I don’t know what this post means… but I want to learn.

    Are you Vegan and moved to Europe and now do CrossFit?

    That actually sounds like fun.

    Especially the linux part.

    Did you flee from a country that was awful and move to somewhere in Europe?

    secretlyaddictedtolinux ,

    I have down-voted this because in a worst case scenario, they should move to a less appealing version of Linux, like Arch

    (waiting for my down-votes)

    archchan , to technology in Microsoft addresses Windows Recall backlash, promises to fix security issues and make it opt-in

    Pretty sure they already said it would be opt-in. This is just planned damage control. The fools have already shown their hand. Again.

    drivepiler ,

    I heard it was opt-out originally, but I haven’t looked into it tbh

    MidnightBanjo , to technology in Microsoft addresses Windows Recall backlash, promises to fix security issues and make it opt-in

    I feel like not wanting to do the work for certain Steam games is what keeps me on windows for my personal use (work makes the decision on my work machine).

    I know it’s possible, I just don’t want to do the work

    toynbee ,

    No judgement for your choices, but just so you know, it’s basically no work for the majority of games.

    univers3man ,

    With the exception of any major games that have anti-cheat. I miss League of Legends.

    toynbee ,

    Yeah, anti-cheat and the Ubisoft launcher have been the only consistent obstacles. protondb.com is a fantastic resource, though.

    I’m not a fan of LoL, so I can’t say from personal experience, but it looks like PlayOnLinux claims to support it. Hope you find your joy!

    drislands ,

    I wouldn’t say “any” major games. Helldivers 2 is a notable exception.

    toynbee ,

    I’ve played Helldivers 2 with no obstacles and no additional setup.

    drislands ,

    That’s what I’m saying. It has anticheat, and it runs on Linux without issue.

    toynbee ,

    Ah, I apologize. I definitely was not fully awake when I read your original comment.

    drislands ,

    No worries, I may have just been unclear considering multiple people appear to have downvoted my comment.

    MidnightBanjo ,

    Good to know. I know wine can get steam going (assuming you don’t just use the Linux version). How do you get steam to download and install the game if it says it’s the wrong operating system? Sorry if that’s a dumb question

    toynbee ,

    Your question isn’t dumb. You just haven’t been exposed to the environment. Please feel free to ask any question about this you have and, if I don’t answer, someone else probably will.

    If you install the Linux version of Steam, it should allow you to download any game. There’s a checkbox in the Steam settings that says something like “run non compatible games through proton” (not what it says, but the general sentiment). Checking that and restarting Steam once is the extent of the setup required; after that, it’s essentially the same process as running a game in Windows (with the few exceptions mentioned by another commenter). Non Steam games should be able to be run by Lutris, PlayOnLinux or adding a non Steam game to Steam, but I mostly haven’t done that myself so I can’t vouch for it. Sincerely, for most games, it’s an easy process.

    I’m no expert, but if you decide to pursue this and get stuck, please feel free to reach out to me and I’ll do my best to help. The link below seems like a good starting point: geekflare.com/install-steam-on-linux/

    MidnightBanjo ,

    Thanks, I appreciate the advice and kind attitude. I’ll check it out

    sfxrlz ,

    How is it for racing sims ? Last time I checked it didn’t look too good in terms of wheel drivers and games running ootb on Linux, or did I just not look in the right places?

    toynbee , (edited )

    I’m sorry, as much as I’d love to, I don’t have an answer to this.

    edit: corrected a word.

    sfxrlz ,

    No worries, I had already given up on it for now I was just curious if someone could convince me to fully switch, or rather point me towards some open source projects I could use. Right now I boot into win11 for gaming and into fedora for everything else. Thanks anyway!

    patatahooligan ,
    @patatahooligan@lemmy.world avatar

    Go to protondb.com and search for the games you’re interested in. If your profile is public, I think you can import your entire library and browse through it instead of manually searching for each individual game. Ideally you want “platinum” compatibility but I’ve personally never had problems with “gold” games either.

    Sparkles , to technology in Microsoft addresses Windows Recall backlash, promises to fix security issues and make it opt-in
    @Sparkles@fedia.io avatar

    Yeah I don’t know what to do with this. I’m about to start to start wfh and handle a lot of data that cannot be shared and comes with big fines for mishandling. I have to have office, mainly excel. Is Apple my only option? I know Linux exists, but I’m not a power user, I struggle with my printer.

    Randelung ,

    I would recommend a VM to try a few things. HyperV, while not the greatest, is good to start off and comes with Windows Pro. Set up a Debian or Ubuntu and a Windows VM and take away its internet. That should get you most of the way.

    seanziepples ,

    Is your company not providing you a computer? It’s up to them to manage that risk.

    Sparkles ,
    @Sparkles@fedia.io avatar

    I am going wfh and I have to use their one drive to access client data. They will provide a computer, but versus my home setup it’s simply not worth it. I saw the idea about virtual windows and Linux machine. I’ve never done it but I imagine I can with some trial and error. But I’m wondering if even that is safe.

    seanziepples ,

    What do you mean it’s not worth it? If you use the company’s computer it’s on them to handle all the liability. If you use your own computer then you’re now on the hook. It is 100% worth it to use the company-provided computer.

    Sparkles ,
    @Sparkles@fedia.io avatar

    Basically, they provide a decent Chromebook. It’s nearly impossible given the actual tasks. So I need to find a better way.

    seanziepples ,

    That’s not on you. I would communicate with management and illustrate that you can’t do your job without a proper computer. If they refuse to help, get it in writing. You should not be held accountable.

    helenslunch , to technology in A PR disaster: Microsoft has lost trust with its users, and Windows Recall is the straw that broke the camel's back
    @helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

    As expected, there is no evidence that this is “the straw that broke the camel’s back”. Don’t waste your time reading this article.

    MS has been doing this kind of shit for decades and their market share has never changed significantly.

    Was it stupid? Yeah. Are people upset? Sure. Is anyone going to do anything about it? No, because the vast majority don’t care or they would have stopped using it a long time ago.

    Weslee ,

    I’m using windows 11 and after hearing about recall and all the other shit they’ve done, I’ve finally decided to make the jump to Linux

    So for atleast me, this was the final straw

    fluckx ,

    I had dabbled in gaming on Linux but never made the jump. After reading about recall I spent a week making my choice on OS of choice ( and then I switched a week after :') ).

    I’m fully on Linux now. Even if they fully back down from windows recall I dont need an OS that’s trying to sell me something based on whatever I do in it.

    It was my final straw as well.

    Edit: and it hasn’t really been bad either. The shader compilation after every gfx driver update is a bit annoying. That’s about it.

    I’ll probably run into something at one point. Like some anti cheat that doesn’t work and is preventing me from playing the game.

    Macaroni_ninja ,
    @Macaroni_ninja@lemmy.world avatar

    Im in similar scenario. Which distro you decided on?

    barsquid ,

    If you are interested in gaming, Bazzite is built on top of a Fedora distro but adds default installs of Steam and (optional) Nvidia drivers and tweaks. It’s got a cool immutable root setup. You should be able to stay pretty up-to-date, but can roll back the entire OS if an update breaks something.

    fluckx ,

    I ended up with nobara ( KDE ). Though if i had to reinstall I might give bazzite a go.

    No hate for nobara though. It’s working fine gaming wise. Had a gfx issue once after an update, which was resolved by just running the nobara system updater.

    I have some issues getting devpods to work. But that is completely unrelated to gaming :D

    kava ,

    If you don’t enjoy having driver issues, just install regular old Fedora with Gnome. The fancier you get with Linux, the more maintenance you have to put into the system. Fedora works out of the box.

    fluckx , (edited )

    Tbh it was kind of my fault. I should’ve used the general updater that comes with nobara by default.

    Edit: the devpod issue is a bit weird and not driver related. Its got something to do with SSL when its trying to clone the git repo. But I can run the clone command myself just fine. Honestly the devcontainer hasnt really worked out great for me in combination with jetbrains.

    It might work better with vscode, but that editor makes me want to throw my device out the window. All the love to people who use it/enjoy it on a daily basis but it is just not for me.

    Macaroni_ninja ,
    @Macaroni_ninja@lemmy.world avatar

    Thanks. I only had so far Linux experience with my Steam Deck, I will look into these distros.

    sgtgig ,

    A couple people recommended Fedora spins but I’d recommend just sticking with the big distros (that have up-to-date graphics drivers readily available - so not Debian.) A lot of the gaming-focused distros are only saving you a few terminal commands and increase your risk of running into issues; they’re good, but they may not be as 100% stable as you’ll find in major long-running distros like Fedora or Mint.

    I have settled on Fedora with KDE Plasma. Here’s basically everything I copy pasted for gaming:

    
    <span style="color:#323232;"># install steam, discord, nvidia drivers
    </span><span style="color:#323232;">sudo dnf install https://mirrors.rpmfusion.org/free/fedora/rpmfusion-free-release-$(rpm -E %fedora).noarch.rpm https://mirrors.rpmfusion.org/nonfree/fedora/rpmfusion-nonfree-release-$(rpm -E %fedora).noarch.rpm -y
    </span><span style="color:#323232;">sudo dnf config-manager --enable fedora-cisco-openh264 -y
    </span><span style="color:#323232;">sudo dnf update -y
    </span><span style="color:#323232;">sudo dnf install steam discord akmod-nvidia xorg-x11-drv-nvidia-cuda
    </span><span style="color:#323232;">
    </span><span style="color:#323232;"># install bluetooth Xbox driver
    </span><span style="color:#323232;">sudo dnf install git dkms
    </span><span style="color:#323232;">cd /tmp
    </span><span style="color:#323232;">git clone https://github.com/atar-axis/xpadneo.git && cd xpadneo
    </span><span style="color:#323232;">sudo ./install.sh
    </span>
    

    I also had to enable Legacy X11 App Support through the settings gui so that Discord could receive push to talk presses without having focus.

    Macaroni_ninja ,
    @Macaroni_ninja@lemmy.world avatar

    Sweet, thanks. I want to start something straightforward and so far Mint looks very promising.

    tomkatt ,

    Just be sure to get the edge release if you care about gaming or have current (like newer than 2021) hardware. Mint’s main release is on an old kernel, 5.15 I think. Mint edge release is running kernel 6.5, which is from earlier this year.

    fartsparkles ,

    Linux has lots of flavors; and just like ice cream, you can have a scoop, see if you like it, and try another one later.

    I’ve been through so many Linux and Unix flavors over the years, it’s borderline absurd. But what was great is that I found a flavor just right for me and my needs, like finding your ideal car. Don’t worry about making the right decision on a flavor at the start, just dive in.

    Ubuntu, Fedora, Mint, Pop! OS, Manjaro, elementary OS, Zorin etc are great starting points. You’ll hear people bigging up Arch, Nix, Gentoo, Slackware, Void, etc. There’s are all great in their own way and very well might be the right thing for you but don’t feel pressured to jump in the deep end (unless you love that thing, then be my guest - Arch was a lot of fun getting it up and running for the first time).

    The best decision I can suggest is learning about mount points and having a drive dedicated to your files and simply mounting that drive inside your home directory. It means you can wipe and try another distro wherever you like without having to copy your files off and on over and over again.

    sugar_in_your_tea ,

    I 100% agree. I personally did this:

    1. Ubuntu
    2. Fedora
    3. Arch
    4. openSUSE Tumbleweed

    I had a reason for each switch, and I’m pretty happy where I’m at. That said, I don’t recommend openSUSE or Arch to new users even though I think they’re fantastic, I just think a new user will get better support with something Debian or Fedora derived.

    Weslee ,

    Which distro did you end up on? I’ve been looking into them and after using steamos on my deck, I think I will go with Bazzite kde

    fluckx ,

    I ended up with nobara. I might give bazzite a go at one point, but more out of interest. Nobara is treating me just fine!

    Bulletdust ,

    Edit: and it hasn’t really been bad either. The shader compilation after every gfx driver update is a bit annoying. That’s about it.

    If it’s shader compilation under Steam, turn it off in settings. With advancements in graphics drivers and Proton, it really isn’t needed anymore.

    I disabled it about 12 months ago and haven’t noticed any difference in performance whatsoever.

    fluckx ,

    Huh. Interesting. I’ll give that a try too then :)

    where_am_i ,

    Some, maybe 1-2% of Windows users keep yelling “I’ma switch to Linux”. They then try it for a few days and give up.

    You didn’t matter in the first place, but also you will most likely not make a successful transition anyways.

    Weslee ,

    Lol. Okay whatever you say.

    Delonix ,

    Crab

    Dark_Dragon ,

    Same here

    Adderbox76 ,

    I get that. And, playing the devil’s advocate here…what happens in a couple of years when the time comes to purchase a new Laptop/desktop that comes pre-installed with Windows? Will your current ire and consternation hold up until then, meaning you’ll take the effort…long after this current “trust crisis” is over…to install Linux once again. Or, with this current scandal a faint memory from a few years back, will you just kind of shrug and say “Hey…it’s there, I might as well just go with it.”

    I mean no offense, and I by know means want to presume your answer here. But I’d be willing to bet 90% of the people who, in a pique of ire, replace their current windows with a linux distro, won’t bother to do the same when they purchase a new laptop down the road.

    lightnsfw ,

    Installing Linux is a pretty trivial process at this point. Not much additional work beyond what already comes with setting up a new laptop. Especially of you’ve already done it before.

    jaybone ,

    Unless it’s arch lol.

    Rivalarrival ,

    Every machine I’ve purchased in the last 16 years has had a Linux liveCD or USB key before first power up. Windows has tried to boot a couple times, when I was too slow to figure out how to select a boot device, but none has actually completed the boot process. I take a sort of perverse pleasure in formatting pre-installed windows without it ever having run.

    Adderbox76 ,

    That’s my strategy as well. I just don’t know how many of us there are that are that committed vs the people who are “temporarily irate” and then go back with their next purchase because its “easier”.

    Weslee ,

    I get your point, and you’re probably right for most, but I haven’t purchased a premade desktop in a looong time - my current desktop I purchased the parts individually and installed windows manually

    kava ,

    But I’d be willing to bet 90% of the people who, in a pique of ire, replace their current windows with a linux distro, won’t bother to do the same when they purchase a new laptop down the road.

    Linux is superior to Windows. Not only do I get more done and faster, I enjoy the process much more. For example, you know AHK? That useful application on Windows where you can make macros?

    Well, on base Fedora you have an AHK built right into the system without any modification and you can use shell scripts- aka a real language instead of the wonky AHK language.

    That’s one example. I can list them off rapid fire but I’d just write a wall of text unnecessarily.

    My point is just that Linux is better. I don’t use Linux because it’s cool or interesting or I’m a hobbyist or anything like that. I use it because it’s the better option for the things I do on my computer.

    That may be different for you. If you are a graphic designer or a music producer that may be different. But I’m usually in a terminal and Unix is the superior terminal. Windows terminal is such a joke they literally had to port in the Linux terminal through WSL

    Kiernian ,

    Thank you for your service to this thread.

    IzzyScissor ,

    the vast majority don’t care or they would have stopped using it a long time ago

    It’s a little disingenuous to claim people should’ve stopped using something that hasn’t come to market yet. I was looking for other options when they started trying to force me to upgrade to Windows 11, but this absolutely is the last straw that I won’t use Windows on my next computer.

    helenslunch , (edited )
    @helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

    It’s a little disingenuous to claim people should’ve stopped using something that hasn’t come to market yet.

    It is. Good thing I didn’t do that.

    I was looking for other options

    Oh well I guess the global tide is shifting if you are personally looking for other options.

    IzzyScissor ,

    You said there was no evidence that anyone would change. I told you my personal story how this IS impacting me and how I’m going to change OS on my next computer, and you… just sarcastically dismissed me?

    Did you want to actually contribute to the conversation or just be upset?

    helenslunch ,
    @helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

    You said there was no evidence that anyone would change.

    No that is not what I said.

    just sarcastically dismissed me?

    Because your personal anecdote is not indicative of societal movement.

    octopus_ink , (edited )

    the vast majority don’t care or they would have stopped using it a long time ago

    Try reading the sentence with this implied bit explicitly added. I’m pretty sure this is what was intended, and is why you are getting the response you are.

    the vast majority don’t care (about Microsoft’s continuous bullshit) or they would have stopped using it a long time ago

    The bit I added is communicated by the context from the preceeding sentence in the original comment:

    MS has been doing this kind of shit for decades and their market share has never changed significantly.

    npz ,

    I just read they decided to default it to off. They should remove it entirely imo, but with this move, it costs IT departments $0 and 0 hours of their time to worry about.

    I think business + government + education usage is more important for them than personal, and as long as this costs them nothing, I doubt it makes a dent in anyone’s plans. Could have been an apocalypse if defaulted to on though.

    helenslunch ,
    @helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

    I just read they decided to default it to off.

    From what I’ve seen they will be asking yes or no upon setup with no default.

    JordanZ ,

    deleted_by_author

  • Loading...
  • subtext ,

    “Not now”

    festus ,

    I both agree and disagree. I agree that there isn’t going to be a single ‘straw’, because everyone’s thresholds are different. For me it was back when Microsoft auto-upgraded my PC to Win 8, which was also when they started putting in hard-to-disable telemetry and bad UI. It sounds like Recall is the threshold for some other people.

    Also don’t discount that MS’ market share is dominated by a ton of corporate users (who lack a choice) and casual users (who don’t care / are unaware), but at least anecdotally they’ve been losing the power users in my life, which if true in general which will have negative downstream effects for them moving forward (IT departments working to support alternatives, software developers refusing to build on Windows Server / MS software stack, etc.)

    someacnt_ ,

    If only there is a way to invest in linux usage

    rottingleaf ,

    For at least 3 decades. That’s twice more than the time between Second Boer War and WWI. That’s the time between the start of WWII and the initial versions of Unix. Or between the initial versions of Unix and Start Wars the Phantom Menace. More than between the original Star Wars and the Phantom Menace.

    EnderMB , to technology in A PR disaster: Microsoft has lost trust with its users, and Windows Recall is the straw that broke the camel's back

    Outside of the “Microsoft bad” comments, this is a prime example of why big tech companies need to stop promoting AI leads to a position where they are able to have influence over initiatives outside of AI.

    The worst thing to happen to basically every product/service in tech right now is AI. It’s made Google unreliable in the eyes of normal people for the first time in decades, it’s destroying trust in Amazon content across reviews and Kindle, it’s adding features to Facebook that no one ever wanted, etc.

    TheGrandNagus , (edited )

    And the annoying thing is, this tech can be exceptionally useful when it’s actually been implemented thoughtfully.

    Effortlessly cleaning up audio recordings using AI tooling is incredible, for example. There are audio recordings that I’ve been able to make sound great that previously would’ve required me to make some calls and ask for a bunch of re-recordings and added days of delays to a project.

    AI in image recognition to vastly speed up medical imaging diagnosis, or analysing lab work? Amazing. Asking unpaid medical students to laboriously pore over thousands of images sounds like a nightmare.

    Better offline translation? Sign me the fuck up.

    Image description for the visually impaired, like my sister? Genuinely life changing. A lot of content online isn’t properly tagged, or has zero attention placed on accessibility.

    The list goes on. Unfortunately, with big tech being as they are, their first thoughts turn to “which implementations of AI will aid us the most in scraping userdata and showing ads?”

    octopus_ink ,

    The list goes on. Unfortunately, with big tech being as they are, their first thoughts turn to “which implementations of AI will aid us the most in scraping userdata and showing ads?”

    Don’t forget making sure the peons can squeeze out more productivity for the 1%.

    https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/200a6cad-b8d4-42eb-95fa-93e2fd8e783c.jpeg

    szczuroarturo ,

    Wait what has the Amazon done with kindle and ai ?

    EnderMB ,

    There have been several instances where people have released ebooks that are fully AI generated, and are basically scams with no real content or information.

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