Even if they do question, it’s not like they are in a safe environment to do so openly. They have to be prepared to give up community, friends, family, potentially their physical safety, and a worldview that says exactly who to be and how to live to be living a good life. That’s a huge step.
I know for a fact there are religious people going through the motions because the alternative is too frightening, just like people stay in bad marriages.
Right. Throughout human history, if someone was cast out of a community, they didn’t survive. We’ve been trained through evolution to go along with the tribe because it’s unsafe to question anything and get cast out.
Survival of the fittest. Evolution does not value truth or mortality, so for example secret rapists are a highly successful adaptation regardless of the morality of the action. If evolution is a correct model of reality, this pesky religion and moral agency will diminish with time. True progress. Maybe we can start counting the years from the big bang instead of that Jesus event or w/e!
Education fails to instil scientific temper in them
Islam used to be the forefront of scientific and mathematical discovery. Believing in god have nothing to do with science or math, it’s superstition, something that cannot be proven or unproven, it’s that irrational thought that make us human.
Thank you, I think people often overlook how faith and scientific thought can be complimentary. In any case, for questions of religious/spiritual matters, people are basically just running with a hypothesis that works for them. As long as they’re capable of being self-critical and aren’t pushing their beliefs on people who aren’t interested, then it seems fine to me.
Islam used to be the forefront of scientific and mathematical discovery.
People of all religions have contributed to scientific growth.
The average religious person and the person discovering scientific/mathematical stuff are generally different tho.
Universal basic education has gained focus in many parts of the world, only relatively recently.
I think improved scientific temper would obviously clash with many mainstresm religions.
Presence of some supreme creator may not be proven or disproven, but I think the anti-evolution stuff and similar things in most mainstream religions would face more questions when scientific temper improves.
And I’m not saying that non-religious people are safe from similar stuff too. Just that it is easily spread and maintained when you have a community on it.
Presence of some supreme creator may not be proven or disproven, but I think most of the anti-evolution stuff and similar things in most mainstream religions would face more questions when scientific temper improves.
And religions can evolve with this (or die from declining membership), as long as the leaders don’t stick to the “These actually scientifically proven facts are lies sent by the Devil” line.
Islam used to be the forefront of scientific and mathematical discovery.
No, Islamic COUNTRIES did. They didn’t achieve excellence in science because Islam benefitted science.
They achieved excellence in science compared to Christian countries in large part because their religious authority figures didn’t stand in the way anywhere near as much. Not because religion helped.
Believing in god have nothing to do with science
Not true. They are polar opposites. That’s why scientists are disproportionately atheist and agnostic: the evidence based mode of thinking employed in science doesn’t mix with the superstitious and unquestioningly convinced thinking of religion without some SERIOUS cognitive dissonance.
it’s that irrational thought that make us human
No. That’s not being human, that’s being brainwashed and/or obedient to authority.
You’re right that it’s irrational and that irrationality is an inherent part of being human, but the SPECIFIC irrationality of religion is learned and enforced, NOT inherent.
No, Islamic COUNTRIES did. They didn’t achieve excellence in science because Islam benefitted science.
No one claiming it is.
They achieved excellence in science compared to Christian countries in large part because their religious authority figures didn’t stand in the way anywhere near as much, not because religion helped.
Not sure how much difference is by changing “Islam” to “Islamic countries”, because the fact still remain that Muslim make scientific discovery and excel in mathematics despite being religious. Again, no one claiming Islam benefitted science.
Not true. They are polar opposites.
You just contradicted your last point. Also science are not religion, how can an apple be polar opposite to orange? One can believe in santa clause and ghost while excel in science. It’s not mutually exclusive.
That’s why scientists are disproportionately atheist and agnostic: the evidence based mode of thinking employed in science doesn’t mix with the superstitious and unquestioningly convinced thinking of religion without some SERIOUS cognitive dissonance.
Science are a broad subject, unless they purposely went and look for god, which they wouldn’t find, there’s like a huge load of subject that doesn’t have anything to do with god. Also your impression of religion is like, wrong lol. There’s more to religion than just praising god.
No. That’s not being human, that’s being brainwashed and/or obedient to authority.
OP this is why people believe in religion, and it’s nearly impossible to get them out of it, you can’t reason someone out of something they weren’t reasoned into in the first place
My search for truth in my early 30’s led me to study the world’s religions, having grown up secular and feeling like something was missing. But don’t let this anecdote or others like it get in the way of your logic. You’re doing pretty good for a hairless monkey!
I find this a seemingly straight - forward point I’ve never gotten a religious person to acknowledge.
99.99999% of people follow the religion they do because their parents did. Not because it’s true. That Christian, that Hindu, that Jew. It’s just because they were told it was true at birth.
If their religion was actually the Truth, why would that be the case…?
I find this a seemingly straight-forward point I’ve never gotten a religious person to acknowledge.
because they don’t see it that way, they have their own understanding of free will, religion sells itself as test ( for the most part ), if you pass the test ( temptation or whatever you wanna call it ) you’re qualified to enter heaven, so in a way even if you’re born christian or a Muslim you still going to get tested, so in their view it doesn’t change anything, but from our perspective, it changes everything because we bet that if their parents didn’t make them that way, they would never go that route on their own…
99.99999% of people follow the religion they do because their parents did. Not because it’s true. That Christian, that Hindu, that Jew. It’s just because they were told it was true at birth.
That’s why we must address the root cause of all this, which is religion, in Islam for example “Prophet” Mohammed piss be upon him, said
“Every child is born in a state of fitrah, then his parents make him into a Jew or a Christian or a Magian.” (Agreed upon)
As you can see, Mohammed doesn’t apply his own observation on his beliefs and because people glorify him, they will never dare to question his reasoning, which is also their own reasoning now…
You can tell a religious person to criticise everything and everyone, and they can, tell them to redirect their critism to their own belief, and suddenly they’ll become intellectually handicapped
could be something fucked with your network settings or ports. if you have 2.4 and 5ghz modes try connecting your ipad to the mode different from the one used by your pc, works for me (edit: on android phone) and I still have no idea why
This just stops working on either my Linux laptop or my phone randomly. I’ll need to kill the process and restart it Does anyone know how I can fix this? Battery optimisations are turned off on the phone.
If you turned off battery optimisations globally, it might still kill it. You specifically have to go into app options and allow it to be always on, as well as allowing all it’s notifications
It kind of needs that (you can use trucks to make it go away) because of the android model of apps where an app may get yeeted off a cliff if it’s not currently showing a notification. Again, you can pull some tricks but for the average user they have to do it this way.
Of course it does. OP asked multiple questions, this was sipposes to answer why they used KDE instead of Gnome. I personally think Arch would have the advantage of having the newewst drivers, Proton version etc. available.
You need more than two to make sweeping observations about the whole population… if two of them were assholes then those two are assholes. Don’t move the goal posts.
But separately, yes it is possible for men in general and women in general to behave differently. Sexism is when you judge an individual based on generalizations about gender. So it would still not be right to avoid male case workers just because other male case workers you've worked with were assholes, even if it were true that male case workers are more frequently assholes! Judge people for who they are, not the class they belong to.
I guess I misread your comment as being sarcastic in an awful way (i.e. two cases can’t be sexism but with a third you’d have definite proof). ADHD can do that sometimes so my apologies!
Ironic how one goes from pointing out assumptions based on internal fictions can lead to incorrect and often overblown external reactions… to blaming ADHD for the same. 😜🤌🏽
Not really offensive on its own, but it carries a reductive and dehumanizing vibe, depending on how it’s used. And the ones who use “female” instead of “woman” are often incels and/or misogynists, giving the term a bad conotation.
this! an example of someone always using it in a such a way is Andrew Tate. watch any of his videos where he mentions girls and you’ll immediately understand
In trials, it has consistently boosted productivity. More people need it in order to be productive than the amount that choose to be less productive once they won’t die from not being productive.
Also in trials, it has not costed more than current social programs in those areas. Clearing redundancies and red tape accounted for enough cost cuts to make UBI overall cost a similar amount or less than what all the various programs with all their various overhead costed all added together.
Exactly, this whole discussion should not be about what people feel about it.
Trials have shown it works beneficially. Quite so. Nevermind the standard of living increase and getting people off the streets, those aren’t even included in that, it’s just about productivity that is boosted.
So yeah, whenever someone says they feel it’d be negative, we tried it already, facts disagree with your feelings.
If I could afford to only work 4 days a week, those 4 days would most likely be a lot more productive as I would have time to get treatment for my chronic illnesses.
I have been told by HR last year to use my surplus vacation days somewhere. I used them on every Monday for half a year. I got not only more productive, but also less stressed. It works.
Yeah as an industrial/human factors engineer it’s our profession’s dirty little secret. It doesn’t apply to every job, but improvement to work quality does. Reducing shift length also does. Hours 7-8 are rarely very productive for thinky workers.
Unfortunately nobody has managed to successfully explain the concept of mathematics or empirical evidence to businesspeople. Sometimes I wonder if they have thoughts beyond gut instinct.
I can manage financially with 2 days of work a week, and I’m now at a point where I would not want to scale back because my work would become of lower quality. Every Monday would be like coming back from a vacation, and I think I’d lose touch and feel with the job.
Those 5 days weekend sure give me time for personally enriching hobbies!
Society couldn't function if most people worked like you. I'm happy for you and it's the exact place I want to be but I think its only possible in our current framework.
Also, a fair bit of work is work for the sake of work. It doesn’t enrich society, just the capitalism machine. So if UBI were enacted on a large scale, there is plenty of unnecessary work that can go by the wayside.
It actually could. Imagine if salary had increased in accordance to the productivity boosts that automation has brought. Then you could have 3 people, working 2 days a week, sharing a job and being able to live from it. After all, it used to take more than 3 people to do the work a single person does nowadays.
Why would a business pay for these things that make their workers more efficient and then relinquish all of the profit that came from making things more efficient?
Stockton’s experiment in guaranteed income — which paid more than 100 residents $500 a month with no strings attached — likely improved the recipients’ financial stability and health, but those effects were much less pronounced during the pandemic, researchers found.
“We were able to say definitively that there are certain changes in terms of mental health and physical health and well-being that are directly attributed to the cash,” Castro told CalMatters on Tuesday. “Year 2 (2020) showed us some of those limits, where $500 a month is not a panacea for all social ills.”
Being less pronounced is not the same thing as failing and the whole article supported the program being effective. Looks like maybe you misremembered this article?
"One glaring problem with allowing this program to exist for any extended period of time is that, unless it is privately funded, it would be too expensive to maintain and would require substantial tax increases across the board.
The group’s page even admits that, saying, “there’s a number of ways to pay for guaranteed income, from a sovereign wealth fund in which citizens benefit from shard national resources like the Alaska Permanent Fund, to bringing tax rates on the wealthiest Americans to their 20th century historical averages.”
I think it part of it may have been related to how high taxes might have to be made and it would be damn near impossible to pass those level of taxes. It couldn't be done souly city by city I don't think otherwise wealthy would flee the city to avoid the taxes levied - at least that woulf be a concern of mine.
It starts with the assumption that raising taxes is unreasonable.
Bringing taxes up to their 20th century averages is completely reasonable, as they were highest during the time period where actual business growth was the highest.
Do you think the majority of US citizens want higher taxes? There's alot of de-programming that has to be done. Democrats, who are generally better than Republicans when it comes to this stuff (due to the low bar they've erected) aren't necessarily full on board with tax increases.
Taxed at a flat percentage of income or progressively without caps, 75% of people UBI will be a net increase in income over what their taxes would increase. It should be an easy sell unless there is a lot of misinformation or demonizing of low income people.
Of course people also don't understand how single payer would save most people thousands per year by cutting out all the for profit companies, since misinformation is such a problem.
Okay so, there are a bunch of different agencies in charge of different types of social services. If you have UBI, those are no longer required. The money is coming from those programs. You spend LESS because you don’t have a giant work force on the back end of all those services/agencies anymore.
Eg. current: 20 departments, 100 people working at each. Gives out 1 million dollars a year in social services.
UBI: 1 department. Far less than the total of above working for it. Gives out 1 million dollars a year in social services.
See? The numbers are fluff just for the sake of the example.
The funniest thing is it’s the same basic argument as free market Vs planned economy. The individual knows better what they need right now. Why this doesn’t appeal more to the right than it does says a lot about a good chunk of right wing politics.
The current system is akin to a planned economy. You are told what you can spend the money on, and what you can’t. UBI lets the end recipient decide where it’s most useful. E.g. for one person, a car is a worthless expense, while better food makes a big difference. For another, they are ok living on cheaper food for a while, but a replacement car would let them bootstrap themselves upwards, economically.
I don’t think you guys cared when you defederated from the rest of the fediverse and turned up your nose at everyone else. I’m not sure why you care now. You guys go and do your thing, but I don’t think you’re very relevant to the fediverse.
You speak very vaguely, and I don’t think you’re being fully honest with your reasoning, but by this point, I don’t think it really matters.
Add people like Putin, oligarchs, etc. To losers, add just about everyone else, the climate, any actually important social or economic program as billions of money are burned on an unnecessary pyre for someone’s ego, etc etc etc.
Is Putin really a winner tho? They almost had a coup. I mean if the war was going amazingly well, but their economy is shit, they’re isolated, and they are in stale mate with an enemy they should dominate…
Lot of bad takes and sensationalism in this thread. The real difference is that one group (prisoners) were charged with crimes, and the others (hostages) weren't.
Whether those criminal charges are valid or not is another story, but that's why they're using different terms for each group, as they're not captive under the same pretense as the other.
Many Palestinian prisoners aren’t charged with crimes and have “secret evidence” held against them. Given Israel’s track record of lying and colonialist activity, I’ll leave you to decide if they actually do have that evidence. aljazeera.com/…/more-than-600-palestinians-held-b…
On top of that, the vast majority of the actual crimes are incredibly minor like rock throwing, and it doesn’t matter if you’re a child. The conditions and treatment in Israel prisons for Palestinians is incredibly grim as well.
There’s a thin vaneer of an unjust legal framework, and the aims of Israel aren’t as explicit to hold them for trade, but they’re a whole lot closer to being hostages than most people care to admit.
The hostage deal was negotiated by Qatar, the Hamas leadership is living in luxury in Qatar, Qatar is seeking to gain more influence in the future of Gaza.
Is this really the right moment to blindly trust the Qatar state owned news source with its reporting about a Qatar negotiated deal related to a conflict that Qatar has a vested interest in?
The hostage deal was negotiated by Qatar, the Hamas leadership is living in luxury in Qatar
You’re spelling out how they’re acting like a neutral party here.
Qatar is seeking to gain more influence in the future of Gaza.
It’s a destitute open air prison. Come on now.
Is this really the right moment to blindly trust the Qatar state owned news source with its reporting about a Qatar negotiated deal related to a conflict that Qatar has a vested interest in?
I don’t blindly trust their reporting. It was one search result. Most of the details on Israeli actions and policy come straight from Israeli sources like B’Tselem.
Is it not true? You could tell me that with something backing it instead of complaining about a reputable source.
You’re spelling out how they’re acting like a neutral party here.
Qatar is knowingly and willingly hosting the leadership of a terrorist organization that mass murders innocent civilians - both Israelis and Palestinians. Hamas leaders live in luxury in Qatar, they have billions of dollars stashed away.
That makes Qatar about as “neutral” about Hamas as the Taliban were “neutral” about al Qaeda.
It’s a destitute open air prison. Come on now.
You act like I’m debating that, or like I’m taking sides.
I’m not.
I’m just pointing out that a totalitarian regime - a regime that tolerates no dissent, that enforces strict religious laws, that suppresses women, that has the death penalty for homosexuality, that openly uses slave labor - isn’t some kind of neutral party if it has a vested interest in Gaza and has been openly supporting Hamas for decades.
Administrative detention constitutes a draconian violation of a person’s rights to liberty and due process. International humanitarian law permits this detention without trial only as an exceptional measure when there is a substantial security threat that cannot be otherwise avoided. But Israel’s use of this measure toward Palestinians is not exceptional at all; Israel holds hundreds of Palestinians from the West Bank in administrative detention for periods of months and even years. Furthermore, administrative detention orders are based on “classified material” such that the detainee has no way to refute the allegations against them. And the Israeli military can extend the period of administrative detention without limit. The infringement of rights of administrative detainees is exacerbated by the fact that many of them are held inside Israel, in blatant violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention, which prohibits the transfer of inmates outside the occupied territory.
In what respect would the crime not matter if you’re a “child”? Minors frequently participate as attackers in Hamas attacks. If Israel didn’t apply punitive detention to anyone under 18, then every Hamas attacker would be under the age of 18.
Please tell me you think it’s justified to hold a child in prison for years for throwing a rock at a tank. Oh, or maybe they illegally walked on the wrong side of the road in the west bank. I really want to hear this.
I think the children should be made Israeli while being held, if caught engaging in open combat with Israel’s. 3 year sentence of “live as an Israeli citizen.”
Show them who they’re fighting and they’ll stop fighting.
Palestinians who are held without trial are held in administrative detention, that’s usually done if the person poses an immediate danger, but the evidence isn’t up to the legal standard (a judge still has to approve the arrest). It’s also used against Jewish citizens (though admittedly much less. IIRC there are two Jews held in administrative detention right now).
Absolutely none of the Palestinians held in administrative detention are about to be set free, and they aren’t regarded as “standard” prisoners (they are always referred as “administrative detainees”, never “prisoners”).
The question was about why are Palestinians in Israel are called “prisoners” and Israelis in Gaza are “hostages”, in the context of the people exchanged during the truce. The person I replied to said some “prisoners” in Israel are held without trial, to which I replied they are not called “prisoners”, and are not part of the exchange.
So… could you explain the point you’re trying to make? If that’s just some general point about Israel treating Palestinians unjustly, that’s fine (I actually agree with you to some extent), but I don’t see how that has to do with the difference between two specific groups of Palestinians and Israelis.
Well your comment is a blatant lie for starters. Many Palestinian hostages who were kidnapped without any evidence or charges were released today as part of the deal. Care to address that?
This message turned out a bit longer than I intended, but I really tried to give the best answer I can.
First off, the video takes statements from the Palestinians released and conveyed them as-is. It’s extremely hard to verify things like that, so there’s absolutely no basis saying my comment is a “blatant lie” unless you automatically assume every Palestinians statement is the objective truth. If that’s the case, feel free to skip the rest of this post as there’s nothing I can say to make you re-evaluate your position.
I could just say “If you claim Palestinians have been kidnapped without any evidence or charges and held as hostage, please show me some evidence instead of unsubstantiated claims made by a party who has a vested interest in making false claims”. I thing that’s a valid claim, but as you can see, I do have a bit more to say. I’ve actually tried to check her statement when the video was posted earlier (not so I could argue about it, just to be informed).
First off, many of the Palestinians approved for release have been charged with serious crimes (some, though they might not have been release yet, as Israel is trying to release them from least serious to most serious). Even Al-Jazeera said most Palestinians released were charged with “small” crimes such as throwing rocks. So which is it - Are Palestinians being kidnapped without charges, or are they being charged with minor crimes? If some were kidnapped and some were legally arrested, would calling them “hostages” not be as inaccurate as calling them “prisoners”?
There’s only one Palestinian who said she was held without charges, not “many” as you claimed. It’s also worth noting she said she was “due to be released in October”, so I think it’s odd calling her a “hostage” (hostages usually don’t get released if a certain time has passed. that’s more correctly called a “detainee”).
Going from her age and arrest date, there’s only one 24yo female Palestinian who was detained in October and approved for release. I won’t try to write her name in English, as there’s 0% chance I’ll get it right, but in Hebrew it’s רגד נשאת צלאח אל פני (copy-paste the name to find her details, which can be translated via google translate).
Assuming that’s her, she was charged with “State security - other”, which is a general charge that can include espionage, giving information to the enemy, inciting violence and more. I will admit it’s a general charge, and the fact she was due to be released shows the Israeli state wasn’t able to make it stick.
So why did she say she was being held without a charge? Don’t know. Maybe in her mind “state security” isn’t a valid charge. Maybe she was exaggerating. Maybe she’s lying (yes, even oppressed people can lie). Maybe she was told her charge would be amended (that makes sense. As I said, “State security” is a general crime). Or maybe I found the wrong person. The point is, I did really try to find more information based on the video, and was unable to substantiate her claims. If you have any other source for similar claims, I’d be very interested to hear about them.
I live in Israel, and I’ll agree that a lot of times Palestinians are treated badly. I’m even prone to think the person in the video should have been freed after 3 months instead of 12. That said, there’s a far cry from that to saying Palestinians are kidnapped without evidence and being held without trial.
State security - OTHER is indeed not a real charge at all. If she was even told about this that is. The word espionage exists as a charge, it is not in her charge.
Jailing someone for even 3 months without process is completely insane, but a YEAR ?? That’s a kangaroo court justice system
Afterwards you go on a journey dismissing this heinous court system as okay because apparently if you can read the charges every crime israel commits is fine because Kkkkhhhamasss
Don’t look up the Amnesty report damming israel for killing their hostages without process in jail. You’d have to do some insane mental gymnastics and you might not be ready for it.
State security - OTHER is indeed not a real charge at all.
What does that mean? It appears in the Israeli law, so it’s as “real” as any other charge. You could say it’s not a justifiable charge, but that wasn’t her claim. She didn’t say “I was arrested for an unjustifiable charge”, rather “I was arrested without charge”.
The word espionage exists as a charge, it is not in her charge.
I think that’s like saying “The word Murder exists as a charge, it is not in her charge” when talking about homicide. Not sure though.
Jailing someone for even 3 months without process is completely insane
Not “without process”, “without trail”. It’s not uncommon for prisoners being held 3 months only to have the charges dropped (regardless of nationality).
Afterwards you go on a journey dismissing this heinous court system as okay
“what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence”. Not saying there aren’t any issues with the way Palestinians are treated in the Israeli court system, but you made some specific claims that I disagree with, and didn’t give any evidence.
Don’t look up the Amnesty report damming Israel for killing their hostages without process in jail.
Sorry, but I actually did try to look it up, and wasn’t able to. Could you please link to it?
The closet thing I was able to find is this, which refers to Palestinian prisoners as, well, prisoners. So even if it’s not the right report, it would seem Amnesty themselves don’t refer to Palestinian prisoners as “hostages”. Could we at least agree on that?
BTW, I didn’t read through the full report, but I find myself agreeing to most of the thing said (most weren’t news to me).
I’m not trying to say Israel did nothing wrong. Israel has done PLENTY of immoral things, and is currently doing plenty of immoral things. I’m saying that Israel isn’t some devil that wants to kill all Palestinians, and has zero regard for their lives (though some Israeli are). It’s extremely complicated.
There is no law in israel only apartheid racism, all those illegale settlements in the west bank keep growing and the police arrests Palestinians.
The prime minister of israel called the Palestinians Amalek. They’re very openly calling for genocide now.
This is not much of a morally gray conflict it’s israel saying “hey we want to genocide all Palestinians and steal their land, if only all those other countries weren’t stopping us we would do exactly that, also all Palestinians are subhuman animals”
Anyway, after calling me a “cartoon villain Nazi” I don’t really think this discussion can go anywhere. so I’ll go a bit off-topic and say something other readers might find interesting:
About a month ago, I spoke with a Palestinian work-buddy (yes, Palestinian Israelis work with Israeli Jews. In the the same jobs and with the same pay. Apartheid).
I asked him how he’s doing, as he’s not only living in Israel (and therefor a missile can hit his family as well as mine. Yet another area where Palestinian-Israelis and Jewish-Israelis are no different), he has the added bonus of fearing some psycho Jewish supremacist attacking him. He mentioned that the police are monitoring social media, and summoning for investigation Israeli-Palestinian influences who show support for Hamas, threaten them with charges and release them. Me, a cartoon villain Nazi bleeding heart liberal: “wow, I don’t think anyone in their right mind should support Hamas, but summoning people and releasing them without charges just to threaten them… yeah, that’s rough”.
He replied “No, you don’t understand, that wasn’t a criticism. I’m saying that’s a good thing. If that’ll help stop a replay of two years ago [social networks played a large part in encouraging Palestinians to riot. The riots caused a surge in anti-Palestinian violence among Jews], I’m all for it” . I’m still not sure how I feel about that.
Not saying every Palestinian is like him and every Jew is like me. Just… yeah, it’s complicated.
That’s right, and a lot of people don’t know about how many Palestinians are being held indefinitely without charge in Israeli prisons. Oftentimes they are children who have been subjected to torture. And this is not something that started on October 7th, although the number of detainees has risen since then, including in the West Bank. It’s very difficult to make a case for the 2 am raids to take hostages prisoners in the West Bank when WB doesn’t have a Hamas government. As is often the case, the oppressors just make up laws and systems to catalyze oppression within a legal farce. Of course the truth is that Israel is commiting genocide of Palestinians in order to steal their land, but the vaneer is getting so thin that it’s making international law and the Geneva conventions a joke.
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