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Dave Chappelle fills Netflix special with jokes about trans and disabled people

Dave Chappelle has released a new Netflix special, The Dreamer, which is full of jokes about the trans community and disabled people.

“I love punching down!” he tells the audience, in a one-hour show that landed on the streaming service today (31 December).

It’s his seventh special for Netflix and comes two years after his last one, the highly controversial release The Closer.

That programme was criticised for its relentless jokes about the trans community, and Chappelle revisits the topic in his new show.

He tells jokes about trans women in prison, and about trans people “pretending” to be somebody they are not.

weaponG ,

Comedy is the last bastion for free speech. Our constitution’s first amendment protects free speech regardless of how sensitive your feelings are or how much it has triggered your fabricated anxiety issue.

SendMePhotos ,

I’m pro trans but I do respect the first amendment. Be who you want to be. He has an audience who loves him… BUT… Hate should not be promoted in order to protect others… So I guess I’m mixed on this.

weaponG ,

It is the first amendment which allows you to make your statement freely without fear of state-sponsored reprise.

Netflix offers choices for entertainment. I don’t like most of the content on Netflix, but I don’t think it should be canceled just because I dislike it.

cannibalkitteh ,

The First Amendment shields you from government reprisal. It is not a shield from private critique or consequences.

weaponG ,

Public cancellation or being cancelled by a sensitive sub section of the population threatens free speech.

Stoneykins ,

No it doesn’t full stop.

Public “cancellation” is free speech by the public and it always will be

tigeruppercut ,

Comedy is the last bastion for free speech

Really? There’s literally no other free speech in the entire country? Guess those idiots on newsmaxx aren’t still lying about jewish space lasers then.

weaponG ,

With cancel culture being so sensitive, free speech is under attack. I disagree with NewsMax and Nazis, but they have a right to express themselves without being cancelled.

tigeruppercut ,

What does getting canceled have to do with the 1st amendment? You want the government to force companies to employ nazis?

weaponG ,

I think you’ve missed the point or the intent of the first amenmdebt itself if you are asking that question.

As for your second question, that is a straw man argument.

tigeruppercut ,

I think you’ve missed the point of the 1st amendment if you think it has anything to do with private entities canceling people. And if you don’t want nazis to get canceled but think that it’s unrelated to employment, who exactly is canceling them?

Your argument about free speech and the first amendment is hopelessly convoluted with cancel culture.

Rognaut ,

Ehh. I’ll probably still watch it.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Netflix appreciates your support for bigotry and is glad that you will be added to the data that shows that bigotry makes for popular programming. Otherwise, we might not make this sort of thing anymore.

deagle2008 ,

Netflix can count on me!

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Yes, you’ve already made your pro-bigotry stance known above. I’m just not sure why you think it’s something to be proud of.

doublejay1999 ,
@doublejay1999@lemmy.world avatar

Have a day off

FlyingSquid , (edited )
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

What?

EDIT: While you’re all downvoting me, could one of you take the time to please tell me what the person I responded to meant by “have a day off?” I honestly don’t know what that is supposed to mean.

JustZ ,
@JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

It means go laugh at a joke ya wet blanket.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Did you find Rosanne’s latest comedy special to be a gut-buster or were you a wet blanket who didn’t watch it and laugh at her hilarious jokes?

JustZ ,
@JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

No, her “jokes” are legitimately not funny. She does not play to diverse audiences. She curates her audience or does not have a live audience.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I see, so “go laugh at a joke ya wet blanket” only applies to funny jokes.

So not unfunny jokes like: “My pronouns are, kiss my ass.” from Roseanne’s special…

But funny jokes like: “I wrote a play. I did. Cause I know that gays love plays. It’s a very sad play, but it’s moving. It’s about a Black transgender woman whose pronoun is, sadly, n*****.” from Chapelle’s special.

deagle2008 ,

I’m proud because I’m going to watch it twice. The first time with my trans friend. Both her and I find the topic of trans rights and freedom to exist very serious but we also know when to turn it off and enjoy a comedy show. I’ll probably watch it again with my wheelchair bound nephew simply because he finds it’s funny. If someone were to “punch down” on any of those ppl I have and will continue to to fight for them. It’s funny that you, I, and others in the thread are on the same side of the larger issue only outside of the context of comedy.

There’s no bigotry here. I know how to take a joke and some of the “targets” of his joke know how to take one as well. The real victims here are the persons who cannot take a joke. Dave will continue to attack you guys indiscriminately.

FlyingSquid , (edited )
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

The first time with my trans friend. Both her and I find the topic of trans rights and freedom to exist very serious but we also know when to turn it off and enjoy a comedy show. I’ll probably watch it again with my wheelchair bound nephew simply because he finds it’s funny.

Uh-huh. And your mother is a Navajo and your best friend is both Jewish and Tibetan.

deagle2008 ,

Algonquin actually. Grew up up with some sassy Jews though. No Tibetan afaik but what’s your point? We still on the same side, no?

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

This is all very believable indeed.

protist ,

Don’t forget to check out the latest season of Queer Eye too girl

VaultBoyNewVegas ,

Just not disabled and trans people, apparently. Good job, you. You’re so supportive of people whose lives are hard enough without some cunt obsessing over them so he can “punch down” at them. Have a fucking cookie 🍪

doublejay1999 ,
@doublejay1999@lemmy.world avatar

He does a few jokes. You do the obsessing .

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Is this you?

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/0e1be4e1-2dff-4c1a-89de-5479f48ced19.png

You seem to be singing a different tune there… Of course in that case, it was someone mocking white people…

doublejay1999 ,
@doublejay1999@lemmy.world avatar

Wells that’s a bit creepy of you…. But I think most people can tell the difference between being attacked (in this case, supporting the murder of gays) and being the subject of a joke ?

Maybe not, maybe that’s the problem, right ?

You’re attempting to compare a comedian telling jokes, to an elected official advocating murder. That’s always going to be a difficult thing to do.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I know. Having a memory of something that happened a few days ago and an ability to use a search function sure is creepy.

Also, the ‘being attacked’ you are talking about is someone saying, “Another ancient white guy. Color me shocked.”

Which… I don’t know… seems a whole lot less offensive than using multiple Netflix specials to repeatedly demean trans people.

But you’re right, “Another ancient white guy. Color me shocked.” That’s just beyond the pale. What a vicious, heard-hearted, racist attack!

phillaholic ,

He’s not telling jokes. He’s repeatedly making statements that trans women aren’t real women. The very same statements that are being legislated around the country denying trans people the right to use bathrooms, participate in sports, receive necessary healthcare, have parental rights, etc. it would be like a white comic in the 40s “joking” about black people using their own bathrooms or water fountains.

leraje ,
@leraje@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Given this is this comedian’s 2nd (or 3rd?) netflix special in a row where he goes after trans people, I’m not sure who’s actually got the obsession.

JustZ ,
@JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

“Goes after.”

That’s a stretch. He’s telling jokes, not inciting an angry mob.

leraje ,
@leraje@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I was just ‘exaggerating for comedic affect.’ y’know - like Dave Chappelle does?

cannibalkitteh ,

Just gotta claim you’re being canceled now, and Netflix will give you a special, I think.

leraje ,
@leraje@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Netflix Exec 1: “We need a new way of getting subscribers”

Netflix Exec 2: “How about this - we wait for a comedian to say something really awful, then, when ordinary people are appalled by what they said, we get the comedian to start shrieking about being cancelled…”

NE1: “We’re cancelling them?”

NE2: “That’s the thing - nobody is! But as we all know, these comedians core audience are people who have a Pavlovian response to the word ‘cancel’ and they’re somehow even less able than they already were to think coherently…so we wait, for the ‘controversy (lol)’ to really ramp up, then give the comedian a 2 hour special. It’ll only cost us a few million but the new subscriber numbers amongst the gammon population will far exceed that figure!”

NE1: “Brilliant! But wait…aren’t we going to look like shitty people?”

NE2: “Possibly, but ten years from now we can produce a documentary series about the real world affect on people these specials had - we can act all contrite, the comedians can, I dunno, cry a bit maybe? Net result - more money!”

cannibalkitteh ,

NE2: “Possibly, but ten years from now we can produce a documentary series about the real world affect on people these specials had - we can act all contrite, the comedians can, I dunno, cry a bit maybe? Net result - more money!”

Cue greenlighting Disclosure 2, where even more exasperated trans people have to explain the damage the media is still causing trans people.

tocopherol ,
@tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

The angry mobs are already incited, he’s just giving them good rhetoric

Captainvaqina ,

Y’all are actual children.

ElBarto ,
@ElBarto@sh.itjust.works avatar

They never said how they’re gonna watch it, plenty of ways to see it on the high sea.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

I don’t really think that changes what I’m saying. I think it is unlikely that Netflix doesn’t take piracy into account when calculating viewership. Because even if those aren’t subscribers, they’re viral marketers and drive up subscriptions because of it. Obviously, they don’t want their programming to be pirated, but I think it would be foolish of them to not fold those into overall viewership numbers. I would say the same thing about Max and The Last of Us or Disney and The Mandalorian.

WeirdGoesPro ,
@WeirdGoesPro@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

I’ll be pirating this as god intended. That way I can make up my own mind about the content while also delivering one small paper cut to The Man.

cryptosporidium140 , (edited )

deleted_by_author

    •
    LadyAutumn ,
    @LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Odd that you’re not calling for those other subjects to face condemnations and scrutiny as well. I don’t think mass shooter jokes or jokes about child sexual abuse are funny. Comedy doesn’t exist in a vacuum it has real-world effects on how people think and feel about the subjects it ridicules. We shouldn’t tolerate the normalization of these things.

    cryptosporidium140 ,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    LadyAutumn ,
    @LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    So… you do think mass shooting and child sexual abuse should be joked about? Then what was the point of your comment at all?

    It’s also just true lol I don’t know how to explain to you that minstrel shows were an active part of racism in America and did a lot to proliferate racist caricatures that still exist to this day. Comedy isn’t magically ineffective at spreading ideology when all other forms of media are.

    (Video games don’t make you violent but they can spread unconscious biases about groups of people, like Muslims for example, by reinforcing who is shot at and who is doing the shooting)

    cryptosporidium140 ,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    LadyAutumn ,
    @LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    And you have no basis for thinking this. You didn’t respond to half my comment so I’m going to assume you’re aware that making a joke where the punchline “trans women are fucking disgusting and are privileged in society and are a threat to children” can absolutely promote and encourage a group of people to legitimately believe that and you just don’t care.

    tocopherol ,
    @tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    What kind of decent joke could a comedian tell that would encourage a person to shoot up a school or be a pedo? Jokes about marginalized groups help encourage othering of that group and normalizes bigotry. I’m not saying a person can’t joke about anything they want, but in a political climate where people are making historic pushes to persecute trans people I think it is a pretty massive dick move to fan the flames.

    cannibalkitteh ,

    Comedy isn’t magically ineffective at spreading ideology when all other forms of media are.

    It’s often more effective because it feeds off of and into current societal feelings. It can shield itself behind being “just a joke” and can still be actively harmful to the minorities they target.

    JustARaccoon ,

    Are you putting trans people on the same level as mass shooters and pedophiles…?

    cryptosporidium140 ,

    You know it’s funny you should ask…

    No, dumbass

    tocopherol ,
    @tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    Maybe because trans people are already in fear for their safety in much of the world? It’s popular for even elected conservative politicians in the US to call them mentally ill. If your identity and right to live were a fun topic for a popular comedian with a huge following, do you think you might get irked by that? School shootings can affect anyone, those aren’t about a marginalized group.

    LotrOrc ,

    I’m not sure how many of you watched this based on the comments here

    But his jokes really were not transphobic in this special at all

    Watch the thing with context and see

    Filthmontane ,

    Personally, even if it’s not transphobic, it’s pretty lame to make that your topic for the entire special.

    LotrOrc ,

    It really wasn’t at all That’s why I don’t get this article or the reactions from people in the comments about this article.

    That wasn’t the main topic for the entire thing it was a fairly small part

    blocker1980 ,

    Because everybody loves to act offended.

    Illuminostro ,

    Because rage sells ads. Period. And most people are sheep who need to belong to a flock.

    Illuminostro ,

    It’s not the topic for the entire special. You’d know that if you watched it.

    Barndog53 ,

    Thank you

    Context is everything. It’s a very well written special especially if you consider the last two.

    He’s a comedian. If you don’t like it, don’t listen. It’s not hate speech, just comedy. These headlines are trash

    Entertainmeonly ,

    Could you give some context? I’m definitely not going to watch it based on just a “take my word for it” argument. He’s been known to toe the line and get rude when people call him out on it. At this point I have to assume he is being transphobic simply because that’s been a problem for him in the past.

    Wrench ,

    OK. You’re entitled to your biases and unfounded opinions as much as the next person. Doesn’t mean we need to respect them.

    leraje ,
    @leraje@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Today in bizzaroworld, asking for context demonstrates bias and unfounded opinion.

    Wrench ,

    Did you miss the part about how he’s not going to watch it himself but already has an opinion based on his own assumptions?

    leraje ,
    @leraje@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Did you miss the part where you told him asking for context meant he was biased? And they’re only assumptions if this was the first time this comedian had ever done a netflix special making trans people the butt of his jokes. Once someone has form for it, and we know he’s done it again, they’re no longer assumptions, they’re a reasonable inference.

    Facebones ,

    Sounds to me like there’s no context to be had and you’re just getting called out for lying. 🤷

    vxx ,

    I gave him some context above and he’s full of shit. The new program is very transphobic and not just mildly.

    Here’s the complete transcript of the show

    scrapsfromtheloft.com/…/dave-chappelle-the-dreame…

    It’s awful and not even remotely funny, just offensive. I think he lost his marbles and drank too much conservative koolaid.

    LotrOrc ,

    You’re wild he’s hardly conservative

    Did you watch it or just read it?

    vxx ,

    I didn’t say he is conservative, just that he drank their koolaid. He’s mirroring their talking points and rethoric, pandering to the Conservative crowd, and not in a sarcastic way at all.

    What do you mean by “just read it”. Are you implying the transcript is wrong?

    LotrOrc ,

    He basically says, as most comedians have, that you should be able to make fun of everyone.

    He says (paraphrasing here) Im not making fun of trans people, they have a lot of representation, I’ll punch down on handicapped people instead

    It’s not about handicapped or trans people, it’s about the fact that no matter what you joke about, someone will be offended, and you can’t live your life not offending everyone

    Also, most of the special was about his dreams as a child, and how other people are dreamers too

    He also goes on to give Lil Nas X a lot of props in the special, which if he hated lgbtq people, he probably wouldn’t.

    The bits about trans people, which were few and far between, were mostly about how people.took and misconstrued his jokes about trans people in previous specials.

    I’ve seen all of them, not once do I think he was specifically targeting and being dismissive of trans people

    You can make fun of people without discriminating against them. Dave has pretty consistently made fun of everyone.

    He makes fun of himself and his wife for being black and Chinese in this. I don’t see everyone screaming that he’s racist against black or Chinese people

    TrickDacy ,

    I saw “the closer” and what you just wrote about it is full-on bullshit. Before that one maybe you could pass him off as actually joking, but not after that one.

    Mighty ,
    @Mighty@lemmy.world avatar

    fuck this “making jokes about everyone” defense. why do all these “I mAkE jOkEs aBoUt eVeRyOnE” Mf’ers ALWAYS make jokes about minorities and punch down? if your “comedy about everyone” is literally 90% about you asserting power and dominance over minorities, you’re just a hack. the power of comedy is so great. you can do so much with it. why use it to make people feel small who feel small all their life

    Soulg ,

    Nah, we need to provide rage bait for overly sensitive people

    HRDS_654 ,

    Look, rage bait is literally what social media runs off. Well, that and cute animal pictures.

    The upside to Lemmy is that there is less rage bait in general, but we aren’t immune to it.

    vxx , (edited )

    But as it was happening… I was very disappointed. Because I wanted to meet Jim Carrey, and I had to pretend this n*gga was Andy Kaufman… all afternoon. It was clearly Jim Carrey. I could look at him and I could see he was Jim Carrey.

    Anyway, I say all that to say… that’s how trans people make me feel.

    That’s extremely transphobic and not even an attempt at being funny.

    Edit:

    “Give me your fruit cocktail, bitch, before I knock your motherf*cking teeth out. I’m a girl, just like you, bitch. Come here and suck this girl’s dick I got. Don’t make me explain myself. I’m a girl”

    Also very transphobic, and there’s more.

    Here’s the complete transcript of his new program.

    scrapsfromtheloft.com/…/dave-chappelle-the-dreame…

    Fleur__ ,
    @Fleur__@lemmy.world avatar

    What the fuck this is awful how can you even defend this

    LotrOrc ,

    When you pull out specific lines without the entire context of the joke, you can make literally anything sound bad.

    vxx ,

    I posted the complete context. I just left a bit of how much he loves Jim Carrey.

    Read yourself and judge later instead of making up your mind before the fact. You’ll see it doesn’t change for the better but gets worse if you read the whole thing. The part I pasted is pretty much the opener, so you won’t have to dig deep.

    Jomega ,

    They posted the transcript of the entire special. There is literally nothing they left out.

    LotrOrc ,

    A transcript can miss the tone, intonation, body language, facial expressions, and all those other cues that give an entirely different interpretation of the words being said cant it? All those other cues make a difference in what is being said. As humans we react to facial and body expressions a huge amount in order to understand the context of a situation

    Jomega ,

    Oh, so he said it in a funny voice. I’m still not going to watch it.

    Stoneykins ,

    You are just trying to get people to rage watch it.

    The transphobia is obviously, clearly there. It won’t stop being fucked up and shitty because he giggled after he said it.

    Katana314 ,

    It does seem better to read the full transcript rather than the whole thing (I have more reading time than watching time) but still not so tasteful. He even says he doesn’t want to offend the transgender community anymore, then makes a joke about misgendering himself at a sentencing so he can be the strong man in a women’s prison.

    Socsa ,

    Yeah, these aren’t jokes which are trying to push a controversial topic mainstream or create a framework for mutual understanding through humor. These are literally just narratives of hate which underpin anti-trans fear politics and actual violence against trans people

    kameecoding ,

    “Give me your fruit cocktail, bitch, before I knock your motherf*cking teeth out. I’m a girl, just like you, bitch. Come here and suck this girl’s dick I got. Don’t make me explain myself. I’m a girl”

    that’s a bruh moment, lol

    Lutra ,

    … its … not ok… to … tell… jokes… about… certain… people ?

    Aabbcc ,

    It’s absolutely ok to tell jokes about marginalized communities

    They just need to be good jokes

    youtu.be/ffqvoJZ2HM4

    I liked this video

    sunbytes ,

    Punching down is the problem.

    Also the whole “my brother is an asshole but if you call him that I’ll punch you” thing.

    If he was making jokes about a community he was involved with at all, great. If it was a trans comedian making these jokes, (probably) great.

    But this is just another old out-of-touch rich guy making fun about people who are already having a shitty time (on average).

    Also, notice how anyone has yet to actually forbid him from doing it. He’s not being “cancelled/consequenced”.

    A lot of people just find it extremely distasteful. (It hasn’t slowed him down in the slightest.)

    cannibalkitteh ,

    If it was a trans comedian making these jokes, (probably) great.

    Honestly, I’d be disappointed even more in a trans comedian. If, after transitioning, they went with such uninspired jokes when there’s a wealth of more humorous things to joke about in transition, I’d question their sense of humor.

    sunbytes ,

    Ah yeah I should have specified the jokes should be not nasty or uninformed.

    But I’d hope for better from someone from within the community.

    sunbytes ,

    Ah yeah I should have specified the jokes should be not nasty or uninformed.

    But I’d hope for better from someone from within the community.

    eupraxia , (edited )
    @eupraxia@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    semi-related tangent, I think some people misunderstand this kind of thing as “well if he was trans it would be fine.”

    when really, no, a trans comedian would just write different and much better jokes about this subject matter because they’re immersed in it and have a deeper understanding of the community and the experience.

    Blackmist ,

    I don’t think it would have blown up if the original joke was good.

    But it was just “this person called themselves a woman but had a cock”.

    And then pulled the “I have a trans friend” card. Like Dave of all people should know better than that. He seems to want to be the Bernard Manning of trans jokes.

    charonn0 ,
    @charonn0@startrek.website avatar

    Depends… on… whether… the… joke… is… malicious,… of… course.

    Gazumi ,

    Cannot watch him now. For me he has even tainted my fun recollection of his early stuff that I’d liked.

    Dkarma ,

    Spot on. Dave wasn’t cancelled he just moved to Ohio and started doing conservative humor…he’s simply not funny anymore.

    NewPhoneWhoDys ,

    He’s still pretty funny. Netflix has been putting out some great content despite the vocal minority whining it is very popular

    Akasazh ,
    @Akasazh@feddit.nl avatar

    He’s not the only comedian broken by transsexuality. Graham Linehan, who wrote father Ted, the it crowd and many other brilliant shows also went off kilter over trans issues.

    I won’t let that tarnish the earlier work, though, it’s profoundly funny.

    gedaliyah ,
    @gedaliyah@lemmy.world avatar

    I am so sick of his comedy of grievance. Every act he does over the past few years is about how unfair the world is to him and how people don’t acknowledge how great he is.

    He’s riding out the glory of an okay sketch show that he made two seasons and then torpedoed 20 years ago.

    captainlezbian ,

    Yeah, I’m reminded of Jerry Seinfeld. Some comedians are great for life, most have a time and a place and excel then and there. I’m the 90s Seinfeld was bigger than big, in the 10s he was telling college campuses they’re too pc for not laughing at jokes about trans people. In the 00s Chappelle left on a high note and was a popular icon of comedy who quit too soon. In the 20s he was a raging bigot who should’ve stayed quit. Meanwhile Larry David is still making tv and fairly popular, but that’s because he mostly sticks to punching himself in the face.

    gedaliyah ,
    @gedaliyah@lemmy.world avatar

    Chappelle has said that Key and Peele were just doing “his show.” But look at how Jordan Peele has reinvented himself as one of the iconic horror film directors of our generation (and maybe all time?). He wouldn’t be out of place in a list alongside Alfred Hitchcock, Eli Roth, M. Night Shyamalan, Clive Barker, or George A. Romero.

    captainlezbian ,

    Also, like so? People wanted more and you quit so others said they could do something similar. And as you said, Peele is doing stuff nobody dared do before in a different genre now.

    I think at the root of his problem Chappelle seems to think that he’s the greatest and people just refuse to see it. He seems to lack the humility that is needed for a comedian to stay relatable

    hypnotoad__ ,
    @hypnotoad__@lemmy.ml avatar

    Yep, dude is just hurt that no one considers him the comedy king anymore. Not that he deserves it, but HE certainly thinks he does. It’s sad, really… I remember respecting him for stepping down for a bit. What a disappointing return, I wish he had just faded away with positive memories instead of torpedoing himself, his legacy, and the fight for equal rights.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    You could also absolutely argue that what Key and Peele were doing was continuing on with a successful team-up that started on MadTV. If SNL got cancelled and Keenan Thompson got his own sketch show a couple of years later… I mean, that would make sense, wouldn’t it? People find him likable and he has sketch comedy writing and performing experience.

    leraje ,
    @leraje@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Gonna take friendly umbrage with you putting Shyamalan on that list but not mentioning John Carpenter or Wes Craven :)

    gedaliyah ,
    @gedaliyah@lemmy.world avatar

    Fair!

    MegaUltraChicken ,

    I take umbrage with Eli Roth being on that list at all…

    leraje ,
    @leraje@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    I give him slight props for 1 decent movie but yeah I know what you mean.

    SCB ,

    Jordan Peele has reinvented himself as one of the iconic horror film directors of our generation (and maybe all time?)

    I mean I’m happy that Peele has found success, but this is not accurate in any way.

    He has one okay movie, and none of his movies can really be considered horror.

    nickwitha_k ,

    Meanwhile Larry David is still making tv and fairly popular, but that’s because he mostly sticks to punching himself in the face.

    I’ve got a love-hate thing with his writing. David is a master of unconventional suicide by words. He’s very funny but so good at causing intentional cringe that I suspect that his humor could be weaponized in the event of another world war.

    captainlezbian ,

    Full agree. I think Jason Alexander did an amazing job of playing him in a way that didn’t hurt as bad to watch as when David plays himself. I tried curb your enthusiasm and it was funny but I just couldn’t watch more than one episode the cringe was so intense.

    Son_of_dad ,

    Dude is a multi millionaire in his 50s who does nothing but bitch about how other rich people “stole” his money. Sooooo relatable Dave, wow!

    Zahille7 ,

    I remember in “The Closer” he said "now Key & Peele are on Comedy Central, doing my show."

    Like dude, you did not invent the sketch comedy show. SNL had been going on for decades before he even thought of doing his own spin on it. I used to like his comedy, but not so much after that special, and definitely not after this.

    JustZ ,
    @JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

    It was a joke you absolute donkey.

    HikingVet ,

    Jokes are meant to be funny and that is just whinging on his part, you bloody walnut.

    JustZ ,
    @JustZ@lemmy.world avatar

    Did the live audience laugh?

    cygnus ,
    @cygnus@lemmy.ca avatar

    Big-name comedy show audiences are moronic fanboys who will laugh at anything.

    glimse ,

    I grew up with (and loved) the Chappelle Show but Key & Peele is sooo much better. I rewatched some of his show a few years ago and most of the skits don’t hold up well at all. It’s mostly just black stereotype caricatures that are only “not racist” because a black guy wrote them

    Evilcoleslaw ,

    The fucked part is one of the reasons he stopped doing Chapelle Show was (according to him sometimes) because he recognized a good chunk of his audience was laughing at the black stereotype shit instead of with him about how ridiculous it was. And now he’s cashing in on punching down at other groups and cares not a bit about it.

    glimse ,

    Yeah. I like some edgy humor but the show was an invitation for racists to be more public with their opinions…which they did

    4am ,
    @4am@lemmy.world avatar

    Yeah, seems Dave’s always had a problem with misreading the room. Still does, just is bitter about it now

    tacosanonymous ,

    And misogyny. I can’t remember a woman on that show that wasn’t eye candy or the butt of a joke.

    elbucho ,
    @elbucho@lemmy.world avatar

    I mean, yeah, he’s a piece of shit, and yeah he’s still riding on that old fame, but come on. That was a great sketch show, not merely an ok one. The fact that he has turned into Clayton Bigsby should not distract from the fact that the first episode of his show featured a faux documentary about a black white supremacist. That was some amazing television. I’m all for bashing Dave for the many, many shitty things he’s said and done in the past few years, but let’s not rewrite history here.

    gedaliyah ,
    @gedaliyah@lemmy.world avatar

    It’s far from the worst, but great? I guess there’s no accounting for taste. I’d prefer Mr Show, Monty Python, In Living Color, Key & Peele, Portlandia… does Robot Chicken count?

    cmbabul ,

    In one of Dave’s early Netflix specials he talks about Bill Cosby and how complicated his crimes were for a black standup who was both inspired and influenced by Cosby as regardless of how shitty he is as a person is a giant of that medium. I sort of feel that way about Dave now, his show and early standup sets were so fundamental to how my sense of humor formed that I can’t completely divorce myself from them, but who he’s become is shameful and i can’t ride with him anymore.

    Like fuck him for being so shitty and bigoted in general, but an extra fuck him for letting down the people he inspired and influenced. He’s become the very thing he should have destroyed

    hypnotoad__ ,
    @hypnotoad__@lemmy.ml avatar

    You summed up my thoughts well… fuck him

    TommySalami ,

    Yeah, I’m right there with you. He came up in a conversation over the holidays and I had to go through how in my opinion he had potential to be one of, if not the best, comic of his generation and he squandered it by needlessly punching down and taking oddly vindictive stances. Maybe this is always who he was, but I think the fame and frustration that came with how his career played out changed him.

    I can’t reconcile the Dave from old interviews and shows with this one, and it’s kinda sad.

    ReallyActuallyFrankenstein ,

    Unlimited money lets people be who they truly want to be.

    Chappelle may have moderated his views early on because he was still trying to “make it,” or he may have gotten worse over time, or both. But what reassures me that he’s actually just not a good person now is the fact that he can afford to be anyone he wants, and this is who he chose.

    Buddahriffic ,

    He didn’t need to moderate his views. The 90s were anti-gay, let alone trans. He just didn’t have material about it because it wouldn’t have generated controversy. People would have agreed and moved on, or disagreed but the media wouldn’t have cared or maybe would have put them on for extra laughs.

    It’s hard to believe how different things were back then, looking at it from how things are now. Trans jokes would have been considered offensive, but because they referenced transexuals, not because they made fun of them.

    MoonRaven ,
    @MoonRaven@feddit.nl avatar

    I hate that Netflix keeps recommending this to me. No. I don’t want this kind of shit.

    deagle2008 ,

    His flavor of comedy is offensive comedy. That’s what made him successful. That’s why I like him. He tells jokes based on what his opinions are. I don’t recall him asking anyone to adopt his thinking.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    I’m baffled as to why you would even think we didn’t realize that his jokes were based on his atrocious opinions. His opinions are what is the problem. Let’s say there is a white comedian that tells endless jokes about black people because that’s what his opinion is and his flavor of comedy is offensive comedy. And then in the special, he comes right out and says, “I love being a racist.” Why would that comedian be worthy of Netflix money?

    Or is being ableist and transphobic more acceptable than telling jokes that are racist against black people? What if it’s jokes about Jews? Would that be okay? Which marginal group should Netflix draw the line at when it comes to funding comedy specials?

    gedaliyah ,
    @gedaliyah@lemmy.world avatar

    He also tells jokes that are offensive to Jews and black people. Yes, it’s his brand, but it’s a horrible brand. He continues to double down on his shock comedy and he doesn’t care who he hurts. Trans people are being murdered because of who they are, and when a public figure publicly spreads hatred against them it adds gasoline to that fire and makes the world less safe for people who are trans.

    I don’t really care if a comedian is offensive, but in this case it’s actually dangerous.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    I don’t really care if a comedian is offensive, but in this case it’s actually dangerous.

    I agree with the latter, but I also think we should care, depending on the context obviously, if a comedian is being offensive- when they are getting the sort of money and exposure Netflix gives.

    I would suggest that most people here, me included, would care if Netflix gave a white Trump-voting racist and misogynist a Netflix special in order to spread their hateful views in the guise of comedy.

    What I am saying is that there is offensive comedy and then there is being offensive under the guise of comedy. What Richard Pryor did was offensive comedy. It was offensive without punching down, which is why it’s still so funny. The thing is- that takes a lot more work.

    VaultBoyNewVegas ,

    Being offensive doesn’t bother me so much as someone who’s continually offensive and then plays the victim crying out that they’re being cancelled while saying their horrible shit on Xitter, fox news or netflix. Ricky Gervais does the same as Chappele and it’s not funny because he does have a platform and he hasn’t lost money plus as you said trans people are being killed and silenced, disabled people have to fight to have people treated with some dignity.

    rab ,
    @rab@lemmy.ca avatar

    Lol why are you saying “we” like you’re part of some special club

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Yes. I’m part of that “special club” of people who realize that topical comedians tell jokes based on their opinions.

    But hey, you don’t want to be included in that ‘we,’ don’t let me stop you from being ignorant about that very basic quality of comedians who do topical comedy.

    rab ,
    @rab@lemmy.ca avatar

    I’m not even disagreeing with you lol, I just hate when people think they can speak for everyone here. Do you think you are some authority figure on lemmy?

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    I don’t think I can speak for everyone here, but I would suggest that on this particular subject, you would find very few people who disagree that topical comedians base their comedy on their opinions, so I think I can safely speak for most people here when I say WE are not idiots who have never heard a stand-up comedy routine in our lives. If that makes me an authority figure, I guess I am one. I don’t really carry ‘authority on where topical comedians likely get their ideas from’ as a badge of honor. I’d prefer to think of myself as just someone who thinks highly enough of the people who comment on Lemmy that he doesn’t believe them to be drooling imbeciles.

    But perhaps you believe that daring to think that people here don’t tend to be drooling imbeciles is just going way too far.

    rab ,
    @rab@lemmy.ca avatar

    Well you do already have 17k lemmy comments so perhaps you are the ultimate authority figure here haha

    julianh ,

    Classic Schrodinger’s asshole. Say whatever you want and if anyone questions you about it, you were joking!

    NoiseColor ,

    I’m waiting for a white comic doing a racist special on black people and saying : “yeah, that’s just how I am, I’m not asking anyone to adapt my thinking”.

    doublejay1999 ,
    @doublejay1999@lemmy.world avatar

    You’re not familiar with his work, are you ?

    NoiseColor ,

    Only enough to know it’s not for me. But doing so much material about trans people and making fun of disabled people screams out personal issues, maybe some condition.

    gorlak ,

    That’s an amazing skill to separate the comedy from the opinion, or do you agree with his opinions, too?

    Nobody, practically, asks to “adopt their thinking”. It’s implicit by taking a public pulpit like this. One doesn’t get on stage unless they want to be heard. He isn’t a victim of his own success. Humor is a completely viable path to social and political commentary.

    You don’t have to ask because people by and large don’t choose their beliefs. They are mostly indoctrinated into them via rationalization of inherent biases and other environmental factors. How many Muslims are born into FLDS households in Utah?

    Overt bigotry and marginalization gives cover to viewers’ rationalization that it’s okay to have thoughts of discrimination against outgroups.

    Evotech ,

    If you don’t recognize that Dave Chappelle is funny then idk

    gorlak ,

    I thought 8:46 was brilliant but it’s not what we are talking about in this post.

    tocopherol ,
    @tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    No one is really arguing whether he’s funny or not. I think most are trying to point out that even if a person is ‘just joking’, telling racist, bigoted, etc jokes, it can encourage that sort of attitude and normalize bigotry in general, especially if you already have a massive platform, and to deny that is just ridiculous.

    yesman ,

    Dave Chappelle is the Clarence Thomas of comedy.

    Anybody who’s followed Chris Rock since the 90s will be familiar. It starts out as an “edgy” black comedian with an overwhelmingly white audience. It ends with your core audience using you as a black voice, that one black friend, who justifies regressive politics. I don’t know if Dave is in on the joke, laughing all the way to the bank. Either way, he’s playing the clown.

    I thought the whole reason he abandoned his successful show was in part a refusal to shuck and jive. Kinda disappointing that he’s putting on a minstrel show now.

    detalferous ,

    This is an absolutely brutal takedown of Dave Chappelle

    Wow.

    nifty ,
    @nifty@lemmy.world avatar

    He’s not putting on a minstrel show, he’s just voicing out his biases. The Chapelle Show had a subversive and punk edge to it because it made of fun of regressive attitudes about race, what’s happening right now just kind of proves that Chapelle himself was never subversive.

    nobleshift ,
    @nobleshift@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_author

    •
    ersatz ,

    He’s gone around the bend. He does photo ops with people like Lauren Boebert. It’s the Kanye West and Elon Musk thing. They get criticism for their bad takes and instead of correcting themselves they double down because they can’t handle criticism. And then they find comfort in the right wing grifter sphere because those people kiss their ass. And then it’s just a downward spiral.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    He does photo ops with people like Lauren Boebert.

    Wow. You weren’t joking. Not just photo ops, but photo ops specifically to pass on a bigoted message.

    https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/82d12b8c-7c0f-4d48-af2a-3169fd6c689a.png

    But sure, he’s an equal-opportunity offender and besides it’s just a joke, bro.

    givesomefucks ,

    Pretty sure she stopped them in a hallway for a pic. And after they saw the caption they asked her to take it down.

    Dave might legitimately not know who she was

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Doesn’t sound like just a stop in the hallway, but it does look like he objected to the messaging.

    He said during his standup act at Capital One Arena in Washington that he granted the photo request by Boebert for a human moment to bridge the political divide but felt “blindsided” by her, according to a progressive influencers’ blog.

    yahoo.com/…/dave-chappelle-poses-lauren-boebert-1…

    Firstly, it’s not his job to “bridge the political divide,” nor does anyone expect him to be the one to do it, so he needs to turn his ego down about a thousand notches.

    Secondly, you do not “bridge the political divide” by posing with one of the craziest and stupidest people in congress. You tell her to fuck off and find a Republican who has a tiny shred of credibility (hard, I know, but you can do better the Boebert).

    jimbo ,

    What evidence do you have that he knew how this photo would be used? He doesn’t exactly look like he’s excited to be in the photo.

    ersatz ,

    But he’s excited to collect millions from netflix for his yearly “transphobe comedy hour”. He knows who the fans of that comedy are…

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    He said during his standup act at Capital One Arena in Washington that he granted the photo request by Boebert for a human moment to bridge the political divide but felt “blindsided” by her, according to a progressive influencers’ blog.

    yahoo.com/…/dave-chappelle-poses-lauren-boebert-1…

    EnderMB ,

    I used to believe this, because I truly believe that we should be able to joke about everything and anything.

    But when you have photo ops with right-wing nutters, run exclusively in circles with conspiracy nuts, and placate the likes of Elon Musk at your shows, it shows that even the great Dave Chappelle isn’t beyond being sucked into the anti-woke brigade.

    When your act starts to focus almost solely on certain subjects, you become typecast, and that’s what’s happening to Chappelle and Gervais. When you’re putting out more material on trans people than what you were initially known for covering, something has changed in you. Most comedians that strike a nerve or hit gold on a specific topic don’t make their entire identity about it, like Jim Jeffries and the infamous gun routine. They reference the impact, and move on. IMO, Chappelle and co should have moved on maybe one or two specials ago…

    detalferous ,

    We should be able to home about everything and anything. But the more politically incorrect your humor is, the funnier (and more true) it needs to be. His new material just isn’t funny.

    paholg ,

    If it were truly about comedy, wouldn’t he at least try to be a bit funny while doing it?

    afraid_of_zombies ,

    Why is it all or nothing? I am not sure how that was established. What experiments were conducted to show that result?

    Pratai ,

    He’s a sellout. Nothing more. And it’s painfully obvious. He was barely relevant before this bullshit- now look at him.

    CaptnNMorgan ,

    He might be a sellout but to say he was “barely” relevant before he made trans jokes is just false. Before the trans jokes he was considered the GOAT stand up comedian and it was pretty much uncontested. If you aren’t a comedy fan then I get why you wouldn’t have heard much about him before the jokes but that’s just your little bubble, bud.

    Pratai ,

    ROFL! Comedy isn’t a competition. You’re either funny or you aren’t. And if you’re only funny because you are controversial, then you’re not funny- you’re just popular.

    He WAS funny. Then he became relevant. Now he’s just controversial.

    CaptnNMorgan ,

    Chappelle was never controversial before this though. He was just recognized by his peers as the FUNNIEST. SMH

    Pratai ,

    He was recognized by his peers as FUNNY. Because comedians are funny. Again, it’s not a competition. Grow the fuck up.

    CaptnNMorgan ,

    Lmao I like how you changed the argument. All I’m trying to express is that he was VERY relevant before the trans shit. You have a lot of unprocessed anger huh?

    Pratai ,

    No, he wasn’t:

    www.ranker.com/list/…/ranker-comedy

    He didn’t even make the list on a site that’s widely known for making lists.

    Even if we consider comedy to be a competition/ he still lost.

    CaptnNMorgan , (edited )

    I’ve never heard of that website but I’ve listened to a lot of different comedians having conversations and every time Chappelle got mentioned before COVID all of them would express how legendary he was. That legend is definitely gone now, he shouldn’t have come back. But back then him and Louis were the two living comedians that had absolutely everyones respect.

    Edit: Decent list but Carlin shouldn’t be on there because his funny specials were not in the 2000s him and Lewis black got significantly less funny later in their career. Whoever made the list is an idiot for not having Chappelle on there but it’s nice seeing Bryan Reagan get some respect.

    Edit edit: after looking up his specials Carlin did actually get a decent special in, in 2001. But he is by no means a “2000s comedian”

    Edit edit edit: my point being this article is irrelevant and you are still wrong.

    eatthecake ,

    What is the difference between ‘pushing buttons and boundaries’ and trolling? I don’t think i can tell. It all seems designed to generate emotional responses and controversy.

    LdyMeow ,

    Nothing. ‘Pushing buttons’ is a mother way to say trolling.

    littlebluespark ,
    @littlebluespark@lemmy.world avatar

    Ya know, even with the typo, it’s accurate. 🤪

    LdyMeow ,

    lol, oops. I’m going to leave it, because you’re right!

    Lonnie123 ,

    I would say pushing boundaries (and maybe to a lesser extent just pushing buttons) is categorically different than trolling.

    Trollings sole purpose is the reaction, to rile people up. You dont have any intention behind your words besides that. Or heck maybe you even lie to do it. “What if I post pictures of sad looking polar bears to Greta Thunbergs twitter account? Wouldnt that make her mad!? hahaha!” Thats a troll - Nothing is gained, nothing is learned, nothing is advanced.

    Pushing boundaries is something different. You can have intent, social movement, and a message with it. Star Trek pushed boundaries when they had an interracial kiss, it wasnt just for shock value or trolling white people. Ellen coming out on TV pushed boundaries without trolling people.

    Boundaries are generally placed by people for the purpose of holding certain groups back, and they deserved to be pushed and in fact broken. Trolling does none of that. Trolling is putting a flaming bag of shit on someones porch and ding-dong-ditching just to watch them get their shoe dirty. If they are old, fall over, and break their hip when they do it thats all the more fun to the troll.

    Pushing buttons… more on the trolling end of things, but probably done in a more playful way, maybe even to someone you know and hope to have a positive relationship with afterwards. But really its a more mild form of trolling

    xc2215x ,

    Loved his early stuff. This trans stuff not as much.

    detalferous ,

    He’s just out of material. It’s sad.

    fosforus ,

    Chappelle hasn’t been that funny for me for a while, but I’m guessing he has found a pretty sizable niche in the trans thing. The more you clutch your pearls about it, the more he’s going to joke about it, that’s for certain. If people would stop being such religious fundies about all this, he wouldn’t have an audience for these jokes.

    Trans people aren’t the fuel of these jokes, the dumbass fundies (such as the author of this article) are.

    ersatz ,

    Trans people aren’t the fuel of these jokes

    Have you heard the jokes? He absolutely hates us. He loves punching us. He brags about it.

    You can be a chapelle fan or you can be a trans ally. You cant be both (gaslighting not accepted).

    fosforus , (edited )

    Have you heard the jokes? He absolutely hates us. He loves punching us. He brags about it.

    Not the current ones yet, admittedly. Ironically enough, this article informed me that it even exists. I did watch the earlier one, and found it rather mild.

    You can be a chapelle fan or you can be a trans ally.

    I’ll take C) neither, but will both watch this show and support equal human rights for everyone.

    dangblingus ,

    Actually supporting human rights for all is being a trans ally. Getting some laughs in at the expense of trans folks is not being a trans ally. There is a transitive property mental exercise here.

    fosforus ,

    Are you calling me an empty set?

    utubas ,

    They are jokes. He is a comedian. Or should we cancel every comedian that is not 100% PC?

    No need to answer though, I am pretty sure I know what is your stance on this.

    SuddenDownpour ,

    There’s a very politically incorrect comedian I follow. There’s one key difference however: he isn’t an asshole.

    utubas ,

    And why is Chapelle an asshole? The transgender person above is crying because everything is either black or white and make everything about them, and this constant woke persecution is just exhausting. But I guess that is the norm with Lemmy, everything that you say that is not left wing is immediatly downvoted, lmao

    SuddenDownpour ,

    Dave Chapelle makes transphobic jokes and says he loves punching down

    Trans person reacts to that

    You: “them transgenders make everything about themselves”

    Alternatively, you could have just also said: “Why don’t you let us joke about you being disgusting freaks in peace?”, but I doubt you have the self-awareness.

    utubas ,

    You can be a chapelle fan or you can be a trans ally. You cant be both (gaslighting not accepted).

    This is what I meant, if you like Dave Chapelle is because you are transphobic evil, no inbetween, everything is black or white.

    But here we are, once again. Suddenly I find transgender people “disgusting freaks”.

    fosforus , (edited )

    Not “disgusting freaks” but freaks for sure. That’s a big reason why this whole thing keeps being a problem because a lot of people have big trouble coping with freaks. I don’t think trying to reprogram them to not think these people are freaks is the answer; the answer is providing them with higher coping capabilities.

    Like myself, I can cope with all kinds of freaks due to being around some and perhaps myself being a bit of one, and will happily give or let them have all the same human rights everyone else has. I might even think they’re great people. Doesn’t make me stop thinking they’re freaks though.

    Embrace your freak.

    SuddenDownpour ,

    Save us the displeasure of having to deal with your presence.

    dangblingus ,

    You can be politically incorrect without punching down.

    Source: The Chappelle’s Show.

    PoliticalAgitator ,

    Bullshit apologism.

    They are jokes. He is a comedian

    Functionally zero comedians actually think being shitty to minorities is part of their job. It was an excuse invented and adopted by people who think dogshit views are acceptable if you sprinkle humor on them.

    Or should we cancel every comedian that is not 100% PC?

    Exactly the alarmist, pearl clutching nonsense you’re trying to accuse other people of. Seen any of Jimmy Carr’s standup? He hosts multiple light entertainment shows.

    Fuck, this Chapelles second Netflix special so who exactly who has been cancelled for “not being 100% PC”?

    The reality is that vulnerable groups can absolutely tell the difference between jokes and elaborate setups for bigotry. Dave Chapelle built an entire career out of it.

    The person who apparently can’t tell the difference is you.

    nelly_man ,

    If he were merely telling unfunny, inoffensive jokes, people would still stop listening. But people wouldn’t call that canceling; they’d just say that he used to be great and place the blame on his shoulders. But because it’s unfunny, offensive jokes, it’s suddenly the audience’s fault for walking away.

    Don’t blame the audience for refusing to listen to him. It’s his job to draw people in, and it’s his fault if he fails to do so.

    blocker1980 ,

    Have you watched it? The actual thing?

    Illuminostro ,

    No, they haven’t. They just want to belong to a team.

    Waluigis_Talking_Buttplug ,

    Yeah, I said this when they first started going after him over his material and he just doubled down. I got banned from a sub reddit for suggesting that the louder people complain, the more money it makes him. I said it’s what he wants, is people to continue to screech about it. Apparently saying that people who write these articles and talk about it makes him money is transphobic. (You don’t have to talk about it, btw. You can say his material is wrong and then just ignore him forever after that. The more you engage, the more visibility he gets)

    I didn’t even know he had a new special until this article, he’s getting a shitload of free advertising from this.

    I personally had to turn the special off, not because I found it offensive, but that it just wasnt funny. It felt forced and like he’s just trying to be as ridiculously out there as possible with his trans jokes. It’s very obvious he’s just trying to press people’s buttons.

    fosforus ,

    Perhaps that’s what employs trans people? Faking outrage for advertising purposes.

    I don’t actually think that’s how it is, but it would probably work.

    TechyDad ,
    @TechyDad@lemmy.world avatar

    Punching down is never funny. Picking on people who have been marginalized or attacked for being who they are winds up being cruel, not humorous. Maybe a skilled comedian could punch down in such a way that it’s funny, but it would be an extremely rare event.

    If you want to punch and be funny, you have two options. The first is to punch up. Hit the people in power. Hit the people who have luxury. For example, a joke making fun of poor people isn’t likely to be funny. A joke making fun of wealthy people, though? That has a much better chance of being funny.

    The other punch style is the self punch. This is where you make fun of yourself or your own “group.” For example, I’m Jewish. If a non-Jew makes a “Jews run the world” joke, it’ll likely come across as highly anti-semitic. If I were to make that joke, I’d stand a decent chance of getting a laugh. (Well, assuming that I had basic comedy skills.)

    When the right complains that the left has ruined comedy, what they really mean is that they can’t make fun of people who are suffering without being called cruel.

    AlfredEinstein ,

    When is your Netflix stand-up special going to be released?

    escaped_cruzader ,

    For example, I’m Jewish. If a non-Jew makes a “Jews run the world” joke, it’ll likely come across as highly anti-semitic. If I were to make that joke, I’d stand a decent chance of getting a laugh

    You mean to say that the Jews that run the world have access to exclusive jokes?

    Wogi ,

    There’s a whole space laser corps you’re missing out on

    AlfredEinstein ,

    חחח

    Son_of_dad ,

    I said it in his last special, a comedian doesn’t punch down. Apparently he heard this criticism from others and decided to double down. He’s truly become a piece of shit of a guy and I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s jumped on the Maga train.

    logicbomb ,

    “Punching down” also indicates that he thinks he’s somehow on a different level from them. So, it should mean, for example, that he’s making fun of comedians who are less successful than him. Or maybe it means he’s making fun of people who have less money than him.

    But, there’s likely a trans person out there who has more money than him, so what does he actually mean? He’s the one quoted in this special as saying “I love punching down!” Those are his words that he chose. Is he saying that he’s inherently better than a trans person or a disabled person?

    It used to be popular for white people to think they were inherently better than black people. Talk about a lack of perspective.

    sneezycat ,
    @sneezycat@sopuli.xyz avatar

    I interpret it as just being a less oppressed class laughing at a more oppressed class. But it does raise a good point.

    Jayb151 ,

    “talk about lack of perspective”

    Just a heads up, punching down is a term used in the comedy world. It’s more like, telling a dumb joke that’s easy. It’s an easy win that most people will laugh at, rather than creating humor using actual skill.

    KoboldCoterie ,
    @KoboldCoterie@pawb.social avatar

    Just a heads up, ‘punching down’ means ‘To attack or criticize someone in a less powerful position’. That’s the definition. It’s not limited to the comedy world.

    WarmSoda ,

    No it’s not limited to it, but Chappelle is deeply part of the comedy world. That’s where he would be using the term from.

    queermunist ,
    @queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

    How can someone be so confident and yet so wrong? 😂

    RupeThereItIs ,

    OR, ya’ll are missing the joke entirely, in that he doesn’t think he’s ‘punching down’… nore is he making fun of who you think he is.

    In fact, the joke is at the expense of people like those in this thread who are getting bent out of shape taking words out of context. It was tailor made to upset YOU, specifically. YOU, and your unnecessary outrage, are the butt of the joke. He’s mocking those who go overboard with the virtue signaling, and you all here are taking the bait hook, line & sinker.

    There is a problem right now with self elected ‘thought police’ trying to remove all discourse, and that is VERY unhealthy for a liberal society. Totalitarianism is not healthy, no matter what your motivation is. Sacred cows are ALWAYS something to be targeted by comedy & satire, and the left wing totalitarianist word/thought police are very much a valid target, every bit as much as the MAGA idiots. For society as a whole, they are equally as dangerous, the end goal is the same but with different underlying motivations.

    That being said, the special was lackluster. It felt like he was contractually obligated to give Netflix another special by the end of 2023 but didn’t have enough material yet & even what he had wasn’t very polished.

    riskable ,
    @riskable@programming.dev avatar

    You’ve set off my 1984 alarm: Never use the term, “thought police” in reference to private individuals making decisions about others actions. If you actually read 1984 (it’s a short book and easy to find online, go read it) the Thought Police were part of the government. As in, policing people’s thoughts was a function of the government (in order to maintain the status quo, avoiding change aka extreme conservativism).

    Here, you’re referring to a collection of people that have decided–on their own–to boycott a comedian because they don’t like where he stands on certain topics. That’s not Thought Police! Call them snowflakes or “too sensitive” or “hysterical” or some other bullshit (don’t care, really) but please for the love of Orwell stop using that term to refer to non-governmental entities or the actions of people that aren’t part of any authority.

    When the government starts cracking down on people’s speech then by all means refer to this action as, “Thought Police”.

    vxx ,

    Don’t believe they aren’t aware that they’re hypocritical.

    I have heard the 1982 argument numerous times from people that support banning books.

    These strategies have been used for ages

    Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.

    ~Jean-Paul Sartre

    sartalon ,

    Man, don’t waste your time and energy.

    Most of these commenters just want to be angry.

    I agree with your comment 100%.

    cygnus ,
    @cygnus@lemmy.ca avatar

    You’re a disgusting human being.

    sartalon ,

    Wow, it usually takes some knowledge about a subject to come to a conclusion like that.

    But you came to that conclusion without any knowledge at all.

    Just like most of these comments about Dave Chappelle’s latest standup.

    Pretty on brand of you to form an ignorant and severely judgemental conclusion based on little to no information at all.

    You sound like an American Republican.

    cygnus ,
    @cygnus@lemmy.ca avatar

    Wow, it usually takes some knowledge about a subject to come to a conclusion like that.

    But you came to that conclusion without any knowledge at all.

    Just like most of these comments about Dave Chappelle’s latest standup.

    Pretty on brand of you to form an ignorant and severely judgemental conclusion based on little to no information at all.

    You sound like an American Republican.

    Wow, why are you so angry? Are you trying to cancel me for my free speech? I’m just making a joke! Can’t say anything these days without the snowflakes getting riled up. SMH.

    PS: you suck lmao

    sartalon ,

    You can’t even make a real argument, and just use sarcasm and personal attacks.

    Be angry at me all you want.

    But next time you see such an obviously baiting headline, like this “article”… ask yourself if it’s a real article or just clickbait that wants to trick you into scrolling through 40 ads to read something that doesn’t expand on the headline AT ALL.

    And then wonder if there is a lot of “news” floating out there meant to make you angry just so you drive traffic to the source.

    If you question this kind of nonsense even once, moving forward, then these last 10 minutes was well worth the effort.

    4am ,
    @4am@lemmy.world avatar

    And here you are baiting, strawman after strawman

    sartalon ,

    I’ll take comments that show the individual has no idea what they are talking about, for $500, Alex.

    jimbo ,

    This whole thread is mostly about beating a Chappell-shaped straw man.

    ersatz ,

    Wait, so he doesn’t do a yearly transphobic comedy show where he delights in “punching down”?

    Wheres the “straw man”?

    SCB ,

    Have you watched the show or are you arguing here about what you’ve decided the show is about?

    Because if it’s the latter then yes, it’s a straw man. It’s basically a textbook straw man.

    queermunist ,
    @queermunist@lemmy.ml avatar

    When I tell someone to shut the fuck up I’m merely expressing my own right to free speech, I’m not taking away someone else’s right to speak! How is that “thought police”? They are still free to ignore me, they just have to deal with the fact that I disprove.

    And that’s what babies like this are really mad about. Baby can’t stand the thought that people don’t like him!

    I’m also free to not watch his special, not give him money, and tell other people to do the same. And baby doesn’t like that!

    Drivebyhaiku ,

    This represents a common issue in the discourse. Conservatives tend to use a group of people to try and score points against leftists, liberals people NOT a part of the minority while using the minority as nothing more than a weapon. It doesn’t matter how much we get banged up. In this case it’s cis people using the existence and expressed needs of trans people to try and discredit other cis people while misrepresenting the needs and causes of trans people. We are not bullets to be fired at our own defenders.

    You think no trans people are made to feel alienated by this? That in the shockwave following another bombing run we don’t get to hear variations of this rhetoric in our workplaces and get to feel like we need to chose between our mental health and the precarity of keeping food on the table? That people won’t feel empowered to come at us with new fodder to make us to routinely have to defend ourselves against whatever transphobic nonsense is getting panned as a “dig against the libs”? We fight for rights to actually live in our bodies with a mental load out that is hard for cis people to comprehend at a basic level and that gets represented as high humor by someone who very obviously hasn’t got a clue during a time when we are under political fire and human rights campaigns have labelled the USA actively hostile to trans people. It’s beyond poor taste, it’s preaching to the ignorance and intolerance of people directly.

    RupeThereItIs ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    BrrooklynMan ,
    @BrrooklynMan@lemmy.world avatar

    it’s totalitarianism vs freedom to have intelligent discourse

    bigotry isn’t “intelligent discourse”, and calling out bigots for their bigotry isn’t “totalitarianism."

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    I will ask again- Is Dave Chapelle entitled to a Netflix Special?

    Sarmyth ,

    Netflix is entitled to a Dave Chapelle special. Contracts were signed. We could be getting a Kanye moment, though.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    That’s a separate issue. That’s a contractual issue. We’re talking in terms of speech here. Because this whole ‘thought police’ thing sure makes it sound like his rights are somehow being violated if he doesn’t have a Netflix special.

    jimbo ,

    I’d think that trans people would feel more alienated by being treated with like they, unlike other people, are too fragile to handle being the butt of a joke.

    Drivebyhaiku ,

    There is definitely trans friendly humour that can see us be the willing butt of the joke… But representing us as “just pretending” or appealing to the squeamishness of cis people about our potential medical choices or making open commentary on our genetalia or coping strategies isn’t exactly humour we can laugh along with when we face that shit from people regularly and have to either pretend it doesn’t bother us or ask people to drop it just to move on with our day.

    For you it’s a novelty, for us it’s fucking routine annoyance. People want to confront us to have these conversations about how we’re weird or wrong or liars with us over and over again and repeat like mindless parrots idiotic shit people believe about us that is patently false and then have the gall to wonder why we dislike them for it.

    Chappelle wants to make believe he’s saying the taboo things that people are forcibly restrained from saying to our faces… But we hear this shit from family members and friends we have to let go of and coworkers and random idiots who corner us in public. But when we ask people to please for the love of god just STOP they get offended and wheel out the “you can’t tell me what to do!” and the "you’re so fragile! "

    We aren’t fragile, we’re just tired of your stale bullshit.

    FlyingSquid ,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    There is a problem right now with self elected ‘thought police’ trying to remove all discourse, and that is VERY unhealthy for a liberal society.

    Is Dave Chapelle entitled to a Netflix special? Does he have a right to a Netflix special? Is not letting him have a Netflix special taking away his basic free speech rights?

    If so, I want my Netflix special too.

    gedaliyah ,
    @gedaliyah@lemmy.world avatar

    Harshly criticizing a powerful group or system (punching up) is considered fair social critique. Harshly criticizing a group or system that is already vulnerable (punching down) is just bullying. It’s not about feeling superior in this context, it’s just about someone with a huge platform using it to put down people who already have a harder life than they need to.

    jimbo ,

    No, it’s about people with too much time on their hands and no ambition to fight any real cause being able to pretend like they’re doing something that matters.

    MeaanBeaan ,

    Pretty sure the whole punching down thing comes from a story he told in one of these netflix specials where a trans woman in a bar told him she likes his comedy but that he needs to stop punching down against her people. He got all indignant about it and tried explaining that it’s not punching down because he’s black. His logic being that black people are so far down the totem pole it’s impossible for any one of them to “punch down” against a different marginalized group.

    Him using the phrase now comes across more to me as him reveling in the position that he’s, in his mind, been mischaracterized into by the trans community. And less so him actually believing he’s better than anyone.

    Still not at all a good look. And he’s definitely an asshole. The fact that he’s still fixated on this one perceived slight that happened to him several years ago should tell you all you need to know about him. My dude has produced multiple Netflix comedy specials focused on getting back at a community he feels wronged by because a woman said something to him once in a bar that he didn’t like.

    VentraSqwal ,

    It also ignores the existence of black trans people.

    jimbo ,

    He’s obviously making fun of the people who have nothing better to do than clutch their pearls over the jokes that comedians make. The whole “punching up” and “punching down” thing is idiocy invented for people to harvest more likes on social media by pretending they’re fighting some social justice cause.

    yarr ,

    I said it in his last special, a comedian doesn’t punch down. Apparently he heard this criticism from others and decided to double down. He’s truly become a piece of shit of a guy and I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s jumped on the Maga train.

    it’s essential to consider the broader context of oppression when discussing the dynamics of ‘punching up’ or ‘punching down’ in comedy. historically, black people have faced systemic oppression, which continues to impact their lives in various ways. this systemic oppression isn’t just about individual experiences of racism but also about the overarching power structures that disproportionately affect black communities.

    when a black comedian addresses topics related to race, they are often speaking from a place of personal and collective experience with these systemic issues. their humor might be a way to cope with or highlight the absurdities and injustices of these systems. therefore, even when their jokes might seem to target groups traditionally seen as more powerful, it’s not the same as ‘punching down.’ ‘punching down’ implies attacking those who are less powerful or oppressed, and given the historical and ongoing context of racial oppression, a black comedian making jokes about race or related societal structures isn’t an act of punching down but rather a form of social commentary or critique.

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