The problem is largely the structure of our democracy. The left shows up, they showed up more in the last decade than they ever have. And we’re still sliding backward.
Because the way our idiotic system works, the number of people that show up matter less than the zip code they show up in.
I’d love to see what a liberal asshole politician would look like, but i can’t see it working out today. As much as the right blows wokeism out of proportion, PC culture is still a thing in a lot of liberal areas, and if you’re not PC as a liberal politician I imagine you’ll offend the more sensitive parts of your own base. Didn’t Bernie Sanders get hit with some of that? And he wasn’t even that assholeish, he just showed a spine.
Ilhan Omar’s treatment of a woman asking for her political support in opposition to female genital mutilation was pretty close to being a liberal asshole politician (or it revealed her to be trying to have her cake and eat it; namely, that she takes positions designed to get liberal support, and simultaneously strategically acts like a regressive when it comes to FGM to get support from African hijabis and other Islamists).
I’m openly curious how well a “liberal” minded individual who isn’t afraid to be an asshole would be received.
Speaking from experience here, people will actively, and sometimes collectively, attack you for it. They’ll gang up on you online. They’ll openly and often violently bully you in real life. They’ll even abuse the legal system to get rid of you if they are angry enough at you.
Being an asshole towards shitty people (and the vast majority of humans are shitty people, myself included) is very VERY enlightening on how our rights and our laws are just a thin veneer covering what really governs our lives, and that is our feelings. Most humans could give a fuck less about logic, facts or the truth; they only care about their emotions and what they want because they are only connected to the real world through their emotions, not their minds.
Humans are no better than base animals and being willing to be a horrifying House-level dick towards those you think are deserving demonstrates this, really handily.
It doesn’t surprise me that poor young man was forced to go to an alternate school where the diploma he’ll get won’t be as respected by the colleges he’ll apply to. He probably told them off for being so blatantly racist and, in their hurt, they kicked him out.
Are we kowtowing to a miniscule minority? The only kowtowing I personally observe are academic institutions within states with GOP-dominated legislatures and courts. K-12 schools in progressive areas within such states have to tread carefully to keep the man off their back, and public universities have to carefully craft their language relating to research and programs. But largely it’s a semantic game, where the substance doesn’t change but the language used is toned down to avoid attention of asshats. Similar to any research related to human sexuality when there’s a Republican president in the White House and the NIS/NIH leadership is dominated by GOP appointees - they don’t change the research, but they absolutely rework the language used to describe the project.
They’re pro-power. They want to be the ones getting the kickback from policy decisions since whenever you change policy there are winners and losers - and the ones who bet on your side tend to win (because then they make you win in other ways. Big roles for your family, giant donations to keep you in office, business deals with your family so you get more income.)
They use:
Christian Guilt (#1 - “Pro Life”, WORK your life away because it’s what you’re supposed to do/REPORT YOUR NEIGHBORS FOR NOT LIVING A GOOD CHRISTIAN LIFE)
Fear (#2 - anti-vax/conspiracy shit/racism/“guns protect people”/“strong militaries save lives”/Anti-LGBTQ/‘THEY’RE COMIN’ FOR YER GUNS) and
Hatred (#3 - OTHERING: racism/we’re better than them/don’t work with the other side they’re the enemy!/The LGBTQ are gonna rape your kids!)
Fear and hatred are extremely powerful motivating forces and Christian guilt rolls into all of it. Presidents and most politicians can’t get elected without being publicly Christian, especially in conservative majority districts. I’m atheist myself, so forgive my improper categorization of denomination, but everybody knows what I mean.
The platform is not the same as the objective. The objective is to gain personal wealth and power and build a dynasty for your family. Helping your wealthier buddies out gets you a bigger share. There are certainly people who intend to get into politics without these opinions and attitudes but it’s far from the majority.
Police have said the motive behind the killing remains unclear, but that the pair were in a relationship.
Davis’ mother and older brother said that relationship began years ago, when Davis was just 15, and involved sex, drugs, and abuse. They told The Inquirer in recent interviews that Davis said Kruger was threatening to post sexually explicit videos of him online before, police say, Davis shot him.
What frustrates me is schools are frequently very willing to spend money on sports related expenses. A librarian left a a New Hampshire school $4 million dollars. They spent $100,000 on the library and $1 million on a new scoreboard (source) In the vast majority of states the highest paid employee is a football coach (source). Local governments don’t really care about education and because local governments are typically elected to me that means American citizens don’t really care about education either.
We’re at a point where, in my opinion, that’s analogous to someone smoking and chewing tobacco their whole life and then being shocked when they’re diagnosed with cancer.
I know that comes across as sanctimonious and that isn’t my intention I’m just frustrated with amount of willful ignorance in our society.
Oh, don't get me wrong, I agree. I just felt the need to point out that there are still a great many people who value education but are not part of the solution, due to ignorance (ironically), apathy, or hopelessness.
I don’t know of any addict of any substance, including food, who is surprised. I’m sure it happens, but in my underserved area, living to seventy or older is the real surprise.
The school you’re talking about is my alma mater, what they did is even worse then you describe.
That librarian was neurodivergent and left his savings to the university at which he worked with no specific restrictions.
The university execs wanted to use the money on sports, and directed the advancement department to create a narrative to support that decision. They found a mention he enjoyed watching sports at the nursing home during the last months of his life.
Close friends said he wasn’t interested in sports at all - he loved numbers and statistics, and at the end of his life at a nursing home the only numbers he could get to were baseball statistics. He couldn’t care less about the sport, he just liked the math.
UNH rewrote his life and personality to justify spending his gift on athletics.
That’s a frustrating read but I’m glad I got to see a glimpse of the man who was just a random bit of trivia rattling around in my head. I’m going to try to remember Robert Morin as a kind man who loved learning and generosity. To me those are wonderful traits. And I’m willing to bet that the name Robert Morin will live on in that library for generations to come. Thanks for posting this.
I’m not sure how that fits in this discussion. We’re talking about how a donation was spent. If that donation can be used to generate a stream of money to be used instead of simply used up all at once, it’s advantageous to do so.
I’ve heard that argument. I see the point at least a little. I personally don’t find it convincing. If game attendance is high enough it should be able to fund itself. If it isn’t then I believe those monies could be more productive elsewhere.
People shouldn’t downvote you though because they disagree with you though. You’re just offering your own personal perspective.
Wow, I’m not going to lie. Out of sheer morbid curiosity I’d really be interested in seeing how that sausage gets made. You should consider keeping a journal and maybe writing a memoir someday. A kitchen confidential for nonprofits.
Here’s some of my most recent ones, they piss me off:
One useless parasite who hasn’t done any work in 15 years is on the payroll at $300K/year. Literally did no work for years. That person’s work now consists of organizing meetings (no more than 1 per week, often with months of no activity).
Similarly, one person who retired 10 years ago is still paid quarter time, which works out to about $120K/year. His sole activity is attending meetings once every few months.
Routine “housing allowances” paid to higher ups. $100K for a mortgage went to a completely worthless individual.
Higher ups expensing dinners for themselves with literally $200 bottles of wine. Any fucking occasion, gotta throw a party - “retirements”, someone joining, someone leaving, fucking birthdays, so-and-so won an award, etc.
edit: nepotism. Oh my fuck, the nepotism. Hire so-and-so’s spouse as a “consultant” when I myself could have done the work for no extra money and 1/50th the time. But no, let’s waste $60K on a worthless consultant that has no goddamn domain knowledge and possibly fewer than 3 firing neurons.
It comes down to flagrant elitism and rampant entitlement. “We deserve it because we’re so fucking awesome”. And it gets worse than what I’ve written here. I manage a fucking nonprofit that’s supposed to help people in dire need, people who will die without us.
I honestly think a publisher might be interested in a book like this. You should consider it. They have people to help with the writing and if you’re ethical and give a coauthored credit I bet there’s a ghostwriter out there who would love to publish a good old fashioned muckraker with you.
I’ve stopped giving charity except to local food banks and schools (and I give the schools prepackaged snacks for the kids). Because I see how the money is used. And the assholes I work for have the nerve to ask EMPLOYEES to make contributions. As if I can’t see all this shit.
Yeah I stopped doing the corporate charity bullshit. No I won’t round up my purchase to some foundation run by a nephew of the CEO. If this matters so much to this corporation they can pay for it.
It’s worse than that. A lot of school boards are run by right-wing assholes because a lot of Americans are very concerned about education in the sense that they want to prevent children from learning anything about how the world actually works.
Also stop making us pay for our own supplies. We can’t write off more than $300 of class materials on our taxes too - maybe she could add some pencils to her routine to make them a legitimate business expense.
Bruh. I live in a wealthy-ass community, in a wealthy-ass state, and i still bought school supplies for my kindergartner’s class. Like, not for my kid - for the entire class. Shit’s completely fucked. And education here is like 99th percentile.
I get $300 a year for classroom supplies, etc. can’t spend it on xyz. Can’t buy a personal printer but can buy ink with it. Can’t buy candy/food/etc unless it is tied to a specific lesson plan where that is integral to the lesson and not simply a reward. Lot of it goes to napkins/tissues/pencils/etc. for students.
I went to a gender neutral restroom in California a couple months ago. Each toilet was in its own little private room, and there was a common area of sinks for hand washing. My only thought was that all public restrooms should be like that. Even apart from the equal access issue for LGBTQ+ people, why make one gender stand in line when there are unused facilities right next door.
For anyone that wants to say 21% is a ton, remember this is over the 4 year contract. This is the equivalent of 5% a year. Also, the last 3 years alone, there has been 18% inflation, and the last contract just didn’t keep up with that.
And IIRC this is after making a bunch of concessions during the previous contract negotiation where they forgoed pay raises which was only supposed to be a temporary measure. This was nearly a decade ago.
Yep it seems like when times are tough, these companies want to claw back whatever money they can. When times are good, these companies want to claw back whatever money they can.
This trend of news outlets reporting multi year raises as just “x%” is infuriating and very good manipulation on the part of the CEOs. They know most people won’t read on to see the difference.
It’s not a trend. It’s a calculated tactic to split the ignorant people who dont pay attention from the working class who do. They hear “21% raise?! I’d give my left nut for that! Fuck these greedy fucks!” and not realize it’s over the life of the contract.
Tried a bite when a friend bought it a few years back. And… I can totally see it.
My eyes were watering, my nose immediately started leaking, and I think I inhaled a small amount of dust. All while coughing from the pain. Someone with preexisting conditions who was too dumb/peer pressured to wash it down with water/milk could totally die from that. And I would be very okay with an “18 or over” requirement on that.
As for the chip itself: I love spicy food. But shit like this and The Last Dab aren’t spicy. They are just “hot”. If all you want is the adrenaline rush of poisoning yourself with capsaicin, have fun. But I want my spice to enhance the flavor of what I am eating. Rather than just immediately overload my body. Spices are meant to flavor things.
Yup. I’ve tried so many of the different high end hot sauces. I love them. I tried this back in I think 2020. On one hand, glad I did it. It’s a challenge. On the other hand, I don’t think I would do it again.
But the chip they use now is supposed to be even hotter. Like at some point it really does become a health concern. Especially for people who aren’t used to super hot foods. Even my brother, who can also keep up on the hot sauces, complained that it made his stomach hurt for a good hour.
Yeah. It definitely does not help that, even now, the average “white person” thinks salt and pepper is “spice”, taco bell gives them an upset stomach, and that you only break out the lowry’s on REALLY special occasions.
Like, a really good friend of mine for decades at this point is afraid of Cholula.
Just to make it clear. If people don’t like spicy food, that is fine. I do suspect what they don’t like is “hot” food, but, whatever.
But don’t go from “This bell pepper is a bit spicy” to a million on the Scoville scale with a “bit much” table sauce. Let alone whatever the hell these chips are at.
Its because taco bell tends to have a modicum of seasoning and high fiber content. Fiber makes you poop and people decide that not being constipated constantly means they have diarrhea.
It is similar to “Chinese food is not filling and msg gives you a headache” in terms of dumbasses deciding the solution to their horrible diet is to be racist to everyone else.
It is representative of texmex in the same way mcdonald’s is representative of a burger or a slim jim is representative of beef jerky. Although, funny enough, there is a much bigger focus on beans over meat (which is why taco bell is actually a decent fast food option if you are vegetarian but don’t mind trace amounts of animal products).
But in terms of marketing and racists talking about how it gives them the shits (which is also related to “ethnic” food), it is categorized as “mexican”.
I love seeing pictures that white people post of their food talking about how excited they are and it looks like there’s not a flake of seasoning on that. I don’t get how they live like that.
I had one of these chips too. It was really bad for like 10-15 minutes and then it was okay.
That last paragraph is why I don’t like Tobasco. It’s not flavorful. It’s just heat and vinegar. Better as an assault deterrent than as food. Dave’s has some good sauces, but the Insanity Sauce is not one of them, for the same reason.
As a sauce, I think tobasco is crap. MUCH better table sauces that you can leave out without worrying about your nephew crying because he drank a scotch bonnet.
But as an ingredient to fix something? Tobasco is awesome. It is basically just liquefied red pepper flakes. So if a meat sauce or something else that you can’t really taste until it is “done” needs a bit of spice, you can adjust a lot more easily without having chunks of peppers or grainy chili powder and so forth. Obviously doesn’t replace “doing it right” but… not everyone has the luxury of being able to make the same dish twelve times before starting recording for a video.
Seriously. Tobasco is an awesome tool to fix a meal. But to whoever actually loves that stuff, check out some other sauces on your supermarket shelf. They don’t have to be super spicy to be good. I made fun of Cholula in this thread but I also love that on a breakfast sandwich. Not much spicier but a LOT more flavorful and with a consistency that sticks to food rather than just runs off.
I don’t like Tobasco either, but I feel like for the opposite reason. The flavor is the problem, while I love a similarly vinegary hot sauce like Louisiana which I’d say has less other flavor
Same, I don’t like the taste of Tobasco. I like Valentina hot sauce. It’s very mild, but I love the flavor. I usually use it to slather burritos or put in tacos. It also makes an ok hot wing sauce when mixed with butter.
You’re supposed to put a couple dabs of the last dab into a pot of chili. That’s when it adds the right amount of flavor and heat. Eating it straight is what gets you.
So dilute it and then mask it with as many other flavors as possible? Sounds about right…
I would need to check, but my general preference for a table sauce to “make food spicy” is in the hundred thousands range, but I’ve enjoyed a few Carolina Reaper (million-ish) sauces more as an accent to something else (fried foods really are amazing with hot sauces). Like, not gonna be dunking my chips in there on movie night but more than willing to use them to spice up a lazy wings or whatever night.
The Last Dab and similar “hottest sauces in the world” very rarely have a good flavor of their own. Partially because it is really hard to maximize you scoville count without being a REALLY thick (often “grainy”) sauce. And partially because you are more or less overloading your tastebuds immediately. So why waste time dialing in on the flavors that chili peppers enhance?
And this is a pretty common refrain with The Last Dab especially. I think even some of the Hot Ones staff have even talked about how it is actually a bad sauce and you should only eat it if you want the pain.
You must be mistaking Last Dab for something else. It’s really hot but it also tastes great. It’s one of those sauces that I can’t eat much of because of the heat but I’m constantly coming back to because the flavor is excellent.
I don’t understand how people see this as showing off, putting stuff in your mouth that you and your body don’t want to be there. Like, why not eat a piece of shit and some stink bugs? Oh right because it’s fucking stupid.
I can understand the thrill of skydiving, even though I’ve never done it and probably never will. And I can understand enjoying good hot food, because I do. But making something hot just for the sake of being hot, and daring people to eat it just to say they can seems pretty pointless.
Habanero tastes pretty great, but the heat is far too much for me. Like most people, I have to have it dialed down to enjoy the flavor.
Someone let me try their “Dumbass Hot Sauce” and it was very spicy, with a gross bitter taste to it. It’s made for people to show off in front of others. It’s not an enjoyable taste.
This seems like the latter kind of food. It’s not spicy as a result of trying to make something that tastes great, it sounds like it was made to be spicy as a marketing gimmick. It sounds like that coffee with “death” in the name that I hear taste nasty. It has added caffeine. It’s meant to have the highest amount of caffeine as a gimmick, not to taste good.
I’ve honestly thrown away whole bottles because I forgot to check for extracts. Tastes terrible. If I’m gonna be eating something super hot, it better taste at least decent. Or just no taste because the heat overrides it.
Anything using extract also feels much hotter than the scoville level would suggest, and it always goes straight to the back of my throat. It’s not even hot, it just hurts and tastes like shit. Extract is the worst, don’t put OC spray in my hot sauce!
I’ve not had one from them that I dislike, and they tend to use good ingredients. As for the last dab, I already really like the flavor of the Carolina reaper, and the Apollo is just great for that. They do a generally good job with balancing their heat/flavor for their sauces, too.
I just had some Last Dab in my Mac n Cheese last night. It’s fine, just very hot, but it tastes good. Sauces from that show that are actually just stupid hot are like, Da Bomb Beyond Insanity, Classic Pepper X Edition, and Taco Vibes Only. Those are made specifically to be too hot.
My first guess was that he died of pneumonia from aspirating chip dust. The actual case sounds like something that seriously needs a warning. Young healthy people don’t think of stomach ache as potentially lethal and the package should make clear that it is dangerous.
Probably the people suing over the right to drive drunk as long as you don’t crash into someone and using the fact that most people who drive drunk do not get into accidents should get a portion of the blame.
I was suggesting that we hold the drunk driver responsible for their actions and we do not instead blame Henry Ford for his role in the proliferation of automobiles.
We had this conversation actually, about a hundred years ago, that’s why you can’t just buy a car at a car show and drive it on public roads without a test, a license, and without following the rules. If Henry Ford fought more vigorously at the time, we wouldn’t have this rules, and then all the excessive deaths would be his fault also. In fact, a lot of the problems with car culture in US can be traced to specific people and companies, and they have a big portion of responsibilities for excessive deaths.
And that’s talking about a car, a car’s primary usage is not a murder. You don’t need to overcome any of those hurdles to obtain and operate a firearm in a lot of cases, and the firearm’s primary purpose is to kill, so it’s even less excusable.
And then we come to the second part of it. Why do you ever need to carry a firearm in public, what purpose can it server in a society, what problem it solves
Bro cars have a useful purpose other than killing people. Guns don’t provide nearly the same utility as a car, and arguably no positive utility at all, in modern society.
He wouldn’t have gone to Donnie begging for money and Donnie wouldn’t have held the shit fundraiser if things weren’t bad. Walls are closing in, people they could once count on aren’t answering the phones. the day is swiftly approaching where it’s going to be clear he cannot and will not be president, when that happens the right will send out new marching orders, they’ll pretend like they all opposed him from the start. Right leaning voters will all fall behind the new guy and trumps cult will go the way of Isis. Maybe with a few less airstrikes and a few more jail sentences.
As I’ve always said, the day is coming when the right will quietly stash their maga hats in their drawers and pretend like nothing happened. Unfortunately I’ll be there, and I’ll never stop reminding people that I haven’t forgotten what they did. I’ll ensure that everyone knows, and I’m not alone.
Devastatingly accurate. I think when the marching orders come from fox news it will be “trump cant win”. Thats all it will take because thats all fascists care about. Just like that they will collectively be like “trump, never heard of the guy, im just a bread and butter family man who believes in lower taxes” while sliding the swastika back into the sock drawer. Meanwhile cleaning their guns waiting for the next hitler clone to come along with new marching orders. They went full mask off in a multi year fascist manic episode and soon theyll be trying to slide the mask back on. Im with you, never forget.
I live in Virginia. Our shithead governor is one to watch out for. He’s absolutely trying to set himself up for a presidential run. He’s smart, he’s avoided the spotlight and hasn’t really tried all the stupid shit like desantis. He’s going to get revealed eventually as a front runner, if not this election than the next. He’s calm, coherent, and will appeal to independent voters that want ‘a normal republican president’. But make no mistake, he’s trying to do all the same bullshit here. He shutdown our path to recreational marijuana, he wants to pass a ban on abortions, he got himself elected by promising to go after all the school teachers teaching critical race theory (he even setup a tip line for people to report all these crt teachers, hasnt even been one instance, it was all bullshit).
Yogurt mcsweater vest is the kind of guy we need to be worried about. He’s just as much of a racist piece of shit as trump and co but he’s smart. It will take a strong democratic candidate to go up against a guy like that.
Thats terrifying. Trump lacked the finesse and intelligence to be fully effective. A man with a 5th grader IQ damn near pulled it off. A bunch of more polished authoritarians watched closely because trump laid out a playbook. The next one wont make the same mistakes. I know nothing of your governor and appreciate being warned
He is Vegan. Irrespective of how we feel about what he did, the failure to address his core ethical beliefs is completely unacceptable. This would never occur if his belief was rooted in ideas of a higher being or afterlife. Not that I’m planning on going to jail anytime soon, but the thought that I would not be able to abide by that daily practice of my life would be incredibly distressing. Unless he is doing it for environmental reasons (I don’t know) he likely seeks total animal liberation, and you’re going to force feed him stolen animal secretions? Coproducts of dead baby cows, blended up chicks, and beings bred into painful bodies? The alternative is malnutrition? I would highly consider Jainism or Sikhism on this fact alone. Fuck you if you think he should be forced to go against his ethical beliefs.
He has been Vegan since at least April 2021. It’s not a circus show. The dude’s ethical beliefs in regards to Veganism are not in question. They need to be respected.
He doesn’t eat humans or variations of incarcerated pregnant ladies’ nonconsensually acquired breast milk. He respects them at least the same actually.
The equivalency I’ve provided is equivalent. If animals were moral agents with bank accounts he may have done the same to them while still respecting their bodily autonomy. But they are just moral subjects with no bank accounts, so I’m only going to make equivalent what is certain. I don’t think you can certainly say he respects non-human animals more than humans.
That’s cool dawg. You can support the shit bag that ripped off thousands of people for billions of dollars if it helps you sleep at night. I don’t believe for a second someone that messed up can have a good thought. So he may say he’s vegan, but I doubt it.
I support the right to abstain from putting murdered or otherwise non-consenting conscious beings bodily fluid inside your body, irrespective of person. No need to mischaracterize.
You’re right, I’m not being fair. Look I can get behind vegans being given vegan options. I even think he should have vegan options. But for this piece of shit in particular, I’m not gonna cry for him waiting for those options.
I agree, only because it’s about veganism that there is a supportive reaction. If they were not respecting his Christian/Muslim beliefs for example no one here would bat an eye, especially here.
Admittedly if he held a religion that he claimed required meat consumption I would be in favor of not accommodating him. Thankfully, no major religion does this, because as it turns out in trying to seek ethical practice, they all arrive at the idea that abstaining from killing conscious beings is morally good.
I also believe your first comment is correct and the US prison system is quite messed up to say the least. However I’m being very pragmatic here and I’m not going to shed a tear if he personally only has bread and water to eat. if anything it will do him some good. the problem is that this is applied to every person in jail or most jails.
Word - My point isn’t about this particular guy so much as the precedent to be set for all incarcerated people, and the commentary people have surrounding it.
I also think it’s for show. Having worked in a jail kitchen, they serve lots of cheap food like beans and rice but also have vegetables and other foods that’d be considered vegan. I suspect what’s happening is that he isn’t getting gourmet meals like he was previously accustomed to, so he’s refusing to eat anything else to gain sympathy points.
Depends on how it’s prepared. There are plenty of things one could add to veg that make them nonvegan, and a lot of us do add those things. Assuming originally vegan foods will be prepared and served in a way that keeps them vegan is a poor assumption. Idk about this guy’s actual diet, but I’ve seen a lot of vegans accidentally breaking their diet by eating something they assume is vegan, and then get sick from it since their bodies aren’t used to it anymore. Not to mention the guilt felt by those who are extremely serious about it.
That’s a very sensationalist way to phrase your point and makes you sound fairly biased in the matter.
In the law, religious belief is a protected class, but dietary choice is not. A reasonable debate could be had about if it should be protected. The prison system nor the court room is the right forum, because it needs to be decided by the legislature.
Veganism is not strictly a dietary choice. Look into ethical veganism. In the UK, Ethical Vegans are a legally protected class. I understand they are not legally protected in America - this does not require me to change my position at all. I made it clear that it’s my opinion, and I presented how I would personally feel to be in his position and what I might consider just to have that ethical belief respected.
And let’s not pretend that prisons don’t regularly disregard inmates dietary restrictions, even the medically necessary ones. It’s easy to laugh at this one because ‘haha vegan’ but it’s still atrocious to ignore any dietary restriction, let alone such a common one.
Being celiac, or having a nut allergy is a dietary restriction. Voluntarily choosing not to eat animals or animal products is not a dietary restriction.
It’s a lifestyle choice based on moral ramifications. I understand that you’re not the legislative but it totally should be a part of the same protected class.
So you aren’t killing the plants and vegetables you eat as a vegan?
Or you perceive no ethical quandaries about murdering plants?
Or plants don’t count because they don’t have the same type of nervous system that allows us to communicate in an ethically direct fashion?
Are trees ethically more important than plants you can ethically eat, thus perceived as more ethically protected under such auspices?
And what’s your ethical stance on property development groups clear cutting small pine tree forested areas near existing residential/industrial/commercial zoned areas to create more affordable single family and multi-family homes for low income families?
If I’m more specific, what Vegans care about is conscious experience. They don’t care if something is alive or has some form of reactive biological intelligence. Its not a loose definition of killing that’s the problem, it’s the killing of conscious beings.
There is no scientific consensus as to the potential for consciousness in plants/trees. Almost nobody affirms that they are. You’ll find generally that when we discuss consciousness we describe beings with brains, or if we get in to gray areas, beings that at least have some form of nervous system. Since there is some level of brain plasticity, I tend to take the position that consciousness is an emergent property found in those with a nervous system at bare minimum, but absolutely and especially those with brains. That said, there are particular areas of brains that if compromised will show patterns of lost consciousness, but I just don’t affirm that those areas are entirelly responsible.
So if plants and trees are not conscious, and they don’t experience reality, and there is no subject, then there is no one to grant rights to. If we were talking about some random planet that had no conscious life on it, a planet that for some reason could never support conscious life but could support plant life, I would have no ethical quandary with a space fairing civilization taking all of those resources and leaving the planet with not but rock.
The need for residential housing complicates the ethics of forest habitat removal but not by that much if we consider what a vegan world looks like. Roughly 37.5% of the world’s habitable land could be redistributed as that land currently is required for animal agriculture that otherwise wouldn’t be. Roughly the size of North America and Brazil combined. You’d have loads of land that could be reforested but also some land that could be reused for housing purposes. As for current reality, I think there’s a strong argument that group housing or apartment blocks would be far better for both people and the planet.
Vegans are all well aware the philosophy is about reducing suffering for sentient beings. Nobody thinks “being alive” is an ethical metric. Rather, the bad faith argument about “plants feel pain” (which is absolute horse shit) is constantly spouted like it’s some kind of refutation of veganism. Not to mention this idiotic “cultist” slur that’s leveraged to make it seem like veganism isn’t the single approach that’s actually grounded in reality.
And if that means brigading and defending pieces of shit who rob other human beings of their hard-earned money and has stolen billions of dollars, giving bad faith arguments, deconstructing justice as a fundamental concept and in general being a bunch of fucking cultists, who cares. You’ll happily accuse people who want to see people like him be punished, even in a court of law, of being subhuman savages while happily acting as if the ends justify the means to enforce your evil ideological bullshit. And who cares who is harmed by your words and actions? People don’t matter, animals do.
Can the state require you to eat the body or bodily fluids of someone you affirm has rights to bodily autonomy, someone we know to be wholly innocent because they lack agency?
They’re required to make the offer. I believe the prison where he’s incarcerated has even offered him the option of vegetarian meals to complement his PB sandwiches.
I think that’s a very generous offer that’s he’s used his agency to reject because he’s a fool.
has even offered him the option of vegetarian meals
That doesn’t necessarily work at all. Vegans don’t eat food that contain or are prepared with any dairy or egg product. It’s very likely all of their vegetarian meals are not Vegan accessible.
It’s the precedent set for prisoners in general that you should have a problem with. He just so happens to be the one in the public eye that is affected right now. Forcing him to either go against his beliefs or be nutritionally deficient is not okay. Your feelings about SBF are not at issue. We can end this chain on that note.
Currently only religious beliefs are supported by the prison industry. If he couldn’t eat kosher, for example, I would agree that that’s a problem.
What if he was pescaterian? Or on a Keto diet? It’s this zone that I don’t think the state needs to entertain. SBF happens to be vegan and vegan is in the region in my mind.
I guess my question is: Is there a limit to the extent which the state should go to satisfy your dietary preferences?
Veganism is not strictly a dietary preference. It is a stance against all forms of exploitation and commodification of animals. Comparing Keto or pescetarianism to ethical veganism is unsound. Veganism is about animal rights, bodily autonomy, & consent.
Ethical vegans tend to describe people who are simplying choose a diet without animal products as plant based eaters. So that would not necessarily be Vegan as they could be exploitative in all other manner than food. Of the people who don’t want to associate with veganism, they often also refer to their diet as plant-based rather than Vegan.
So while we can’t know for sure if SFB is an ethical Vegan, the fact that he’d self-described as Vegan rather than as a plant-based eater is a very good indication of his beliefs. I am not aware of any text describing the particulars of his belief, but I think it’s best to assume in good faith since he uses that exact word.
Homie there are absolutely people who think vegans are crazy and eat plant-based. They don’t want to be described as vegan. A lot of them are in the Gwyneth Paltrow goop crowd, you know, the crazy holistic people that like incense and hot yoga and shit. People who really really like the word journey when they describe things changing in their lives. People who think eating plant based is a personal choice just like they claim eating meat is a personal choice. They do it for health and some weird hippie superiority thing. Sometimes because its what God originally wanted people to eat in the Garden of Eden.
Those people exist. Idk why you’re suggesting I’m lying.
Well, none of them are here in this thread, so it’s obvious you’re just lying and dredging up excuses to help SBF avoid consequences for his actions. You’re a despicable piece of shit – though what can we expect from someone who prefers the company of snakes to human beings?
Veganism is not a dietary preference. Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for any purpose. Which happens to include food.
They are required in most civilised nations. You’re just too used to America’s punishment focused prison system, look at the prisons in Scandinavian nations and how they treat their prisoners.
I don’t think SBF needs rehabilitation or whatever the europeans call it. He needs a prison cell, 3 peanut butter sandwiches, and an hour of rec time… everyday… for twenty years.
Good for you, but I’d rather my money not be wasted on petty spite and draconian bullshit. I’d rather it actually go towards something useful, like rehabilitating people so they can be better and contribute to society.
No one is obligated to or wants to rehabilitate him or people like him. We respect their agency to make their own choices, and in return they accept the deleterious consequences if they choose to do horrific shit. Like this fuck you’re using to push your agenda.
Lmao who are you speaking for? No one wants to rehabilitate people because you say so? Who is this “we”?
And christ, man, accusing me of pushing an agenda? How cliche can you get? This is literally just my opinion - me voicing it isn’t “pushing my agenda”.
My guy, we need only read the thread to see that all of you brigading and concern trolling are in the minority. It’s a fact. Specifically in this case because Sam Bankman-Fried is the perfect example of the two-tiered legal system we have in the U.S., a different set of rules and consequences based on wealth. The only reason he’s even in jail suffering the way he should be is because he started stealing from other rich people.
And christ, man, accusing me of pushing an agenda? How cliche can you get?
Oh, excuse you?
So you agree that the is is solely about people wanting blood, solely out of spite, and doesn’t actually serve any tangible purpose? Glad we’ve got that figured out.
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, my friend.
You literally are out here parroting one-liners you memorized from shitty revenge movies and you’re going to accuse me of pandering to cliches? Get the fuck out of here.
You’re in here pushing evil, anti-justice apologetics to once again deny the American people the justice they deserve after so long and it’s obvious. You don’t care about what’s right or what’s good for Americans or what’s good for morality or the world, you only care about what makes you personally feel better. And I won’t fucking let you get what you want.
we need only read the thread to see that all of you brigading and concern trolling are in the minority. It’s a fact
One might consider the fact that until this very moment, my comments were consistently the most upvoted of the two of us. And that somehow on a two day old post all of your comments got upvoted three times, while mine were all downvoted three times. But hey, I’ll just assume that that’s a coincidence.
Either way, what matters is that most of the top comments are advocating for getting this guy a proper vegan selection. So clearly it’s not so simply “a fact”.
Also, did you seriously pull a comment from a discussion I was having with an entirely different person? Did you stalk my account for that? That’s bizarre, but what’s even more bizarre is that you think the quote “an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind” comes from a revenge movie lmao.
evil, anti-justice apologetics
It’s literally just empathy - calling it “evil” sounds like projection to me. Especially when you’re the one advocating for further harm, and trying to justify it with mob mentality.
you only care about what makes you personally feel better
Again, just projection. The only reason to punish people further is to make the rest of us feel better. Someone “getting what they deserve” is cathartic for the masses, and for no other reason than pure spite. It accomplishes nothing. What I believe doesn’t make me feel better - how would it? It’s far harder to be empathetic towards bad people than it is to simply view them as less than human and move on.
It’s literally just empathy - calling it “evil” sounds like projection to me. Especially when you’re the one advocating for further harm, and trying to justify it with mob mentality.
Imagine calling apologizing for, defending and using as a political tool to demand no one be punished for anything, denying humanity justice, empathy.
You absolutely are disgusting and vile. Get away from me.
Well, I’d rather my tax money not be wasted denying people justice just to satisfy authoritarian twits like yourself, but who am I to disagree with you? I’m just a lowly meat-eater while all he did was steal billions from innocent people, taking away their retirements, and we all know we lowly meat-eaters don’t mean as much as the fluffy squirrels and singing birds you think are your friends.
So you agree that the is is solely about people wanting blood, solely out of spite, and doesn’t actually serve any tangible purpose? Glad we’ve got that figured out.
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, my friend.
Holy shit, did you dig that strawman from the set of a bad 90’s action movie or are you just happy to see me?
Did you know that doing what’s right has its own intrinsic value and needs to be done for its own sake, and that not everything has to have a tangible, materialistic value? And that our inner, intrinsic, immaterial needs are just as valid as, if not more important in many ways, than our material ones?
By your logic, we shouldn’t have space programs either, because those are largely about national prestige and dick-waving competitions at the U.N.
By your logic, we shouldn’t have art either, because art doesn’t have any real tangible value or purpose aside from what people assign to it. It literally only exists to make people feel better, yet here you are, arguing that anything with an immaterial purpose is therefore invalid.
Should we have no history either? History doesn’t put food on our plates or pays our rent either, and when pressed, history buffs can give only nebulous, vague allusions to intrinsic, immaterial value their field provides, too, yet here you are.
So you agree that you’re just concern trolling, hoping that by stereotyping anyone who demands justice as some 90’s revenge movie stereotype that you can smear and discredit them, so you can do away with the notion of justice?
So you agree that you oppose justice?
No one even said anything about an eye for an eye. Denying someone vegan meals in prison isn’t ripping their eyes out. Neither would imprisoning that fat fuck for life either. Even killing him wouldn’t be that.
You may be opposed to the idea and the cause of justice, but the rest of the world is not, and you need to seriously sit down with yourself and seriously reflect on what it is you’re doing and what you hope to accomplish here, because what you’re doing is wrong.
Did you know that doing what’s right has its own intrinsic value and needs to be done for its own sake, and that not everything has to have a tangible, materialistic value?
Something being “right” is entirely subjective, and personally I don’t think that punishing people without purpose fits that definition.
By your logic, we shouldn’t have art either, because art doesn’t have any real tangible value or purpose aside from what people assign to it
My logic is that if an action needlessly hurts another, it shouldn’t be done. Not sure how art hurts others. The same goes for your space example. And your history example.
Also, you realize that what you did just then was a strawman… right? Because I never made the argument that nothing is worth doing without having some tangible result. I argued that we shouldn’t hurt people for no other reason than spite.
So you agree that you’re just concern trolling
Wtf is concern trolling? Lmao just another weird label to dismiss opinions that differ from your own? Gotcha.
No one even said anything about an eye for an eye. Denying someone vegan meals in prison isn’t ripping their eyes out
…you know that “an eye for an eye” doesn’t mean literally just eyes, right? It means that revenge leads to nothing but further suffering.
but the rest of the world is not
Are you sure about that? Because the rest of the modern world doesn’t have capital punishment. It’s literally only us and some 3rd world countries. Clearly people are moving away from barbarism and draconian, ineffective punishments.
Something being “right” is entirely subjective, and personally I don’t think that punishing people without purpose fits that definition.
Yet here you are, pushing and needling and imposing your will upon others, demanding other people give up core values that make humanity what it is because you don’t want to accept that what you’re advocating for is wrong and harmful.
My logic is that if an action needlessly hurts another, it shouldn’t be done. Not sure how art hurts others. The same goes for your space example. And your history example.
No, your logic consists of a long list of thought-terminating cliches you watched in movies or played in video games. You don’t think. You haven’t thought about what you’re truly asking for and you haven’t considered at all how it will harm other people because you simply don’t care about all that. You only care about yourself. And your snakes.
You know why the suicide rate for rape victims is so high, for example? Because of evil monsters like you who protect their rapists from justice with the same tactics.
Also, you realize that what you did just then was a strawman… right? Because I never made the argument that nothing is worth doing without having some tangible result. I argued that we shouldn’t hurt people for no other reason than spite.
Actually, you are, because justice, like art and history and love, is a thing whose benefit is moral and intangible, and here you are demanding its repeal without one single fuck given for the consequences of it. It is the moral backbone that makes all social relations possible. Without it, you have no humanity. Yet here you are, demanding we give up our humanity because you saw a documentary about Sweden once, played The Last Of Us 2 and decided that was all you needed to know.
Are you sure about that? Because the rest of the modern world doesn’t have capital punishment.
Here’s some more blatant strawmanning from you. It’s awfully telling you equate capital punishment with justice in a thread specifically about a man in jail and not being executed.
But what little can we expect from someone who doesn’t even respect his fellow man enough to respect the value and necessity of justice?
Yet here you are, pushing and needling and imposing your will upon others
Nope, this is just my opinion. Pretty sure I made that clear earlier. If you feel that your core values are at risk just by talking to me, maybe that says more about you than anything. Maybe your core values aren’t as set in stone as you thought they were.
No, your logic consists of…
Nope, my logic consists of what I said it did. That’s my core belief, and everything I’ve said in this conversation stems from it. Also not sure what your obsession is with movies, and how they somehow dictate my beliefs? Seems a bit random tbh.
You know why the suicide rate for rape victims is so high, for example? Because of evil monsters like you who protect their rapists from justice with the same tactics.
This would actually be your ideology at fault, no? After all, America’s justice system better fits your ideals than mine. So any faults it has, like suicide rates and the number of rape victims, would be on you not me.
Now, if a country that fit my beliefs had these massive issues you’d have a point. But unfortunately for you, these issues stem from your own.
Yet here you are, demanding we give up our humanity
This is the most melodramatic thing I’ve ever heard. Tbh this whole part of your comment is pretty crazy, I’m honestly starting to wonder if I’m just being trolled.
It’s awfully telling you equate capital punishment with justice
With your version of justice, not my own. Capital punishment, just like what’s happening here, is needless punishment for the sole purpose of cathartic spite.
My point is that the rest of the world is moving on from this draconian mindset. There’s a reason most make fun of America’s prison systems, as most of the world prioritizes rehabilitation while we focus on needless punishment. You don’t have to agree with that, but clearly the modern world in large part does.
Also it’s not strawmanning you goof, I’m not saying that capital punishment was your whole argument.
But what little can we expect from someone who doesn’t even respect his fellow man enough to respect the value and necessity of justice?
Rich coming from the guy who wants to needlessly punish his “fellow man” for no other reason than you seem to enjoy it. Does the idea of someone getting justice make you feel good?
I’d rather all people get the help they need. I’d argue that that’s a much better example of respect than whatever you’ve conjured up.
Edit: Also I’ve never seen a documentary about Sweden or played TLOU2 lol, weird assumptions.
Only flesh and milk for him. Don’t feed his made up vegan ethics nonsense, he needs to be miserable and eating meat that he despises is the perfect punishment for a little bitch like him.
Yes, I have, he’s a horrible person, but treating him poorly will not undoe what he’s done. And this goes far beyond this one person. The entire us “”“justice”“” system is based around this.
He should be forced to eat the organs and flesh of animals, nothing green whatsoever, only flesh until the end of his days. He’s a monster so he should eat what they eat and not pretend he’s a fucking saint.
If it were up to me I would force him to watch slaughterhouse of animals being slaughtered then force him to eat meat from the same kinds of animals killed in the video, if it were up to me, he would never touch greens again as long as he’s alive.
There are plenty of items on a typical prison menu he can eat without eating “baby cow”, or “blended up chicks” as you put it. There is no need to live off bread and water when there are vegetables, fruit, salad, juice, rice, beans etc. I’m sure this will be pointed out to him and also the limits of what a system will accommodate - dietary or religious needs. Also, his ethics are why he is in prison in the first place so boo hoo for him.
It’s not speculation. You can google “federal prison menu” and see the national menu that prisons supply. Here is the 2022 menu. You will note as you read that menu that there are obviously vegan food items that SBF could eat from every single meal of every single day of the week. Breakfast? Fruit, coffee, bread, branflakes… Lunch? Beans, sweet potatoes, mash, salad, rice, baked potato… Dinner? Tacos, salads, tofu, soups, tater tots, cornbread, corn on the cob, hummus… In most cases he even has a viable main option, and even if he can’t he could always trade his main to someone else for a side of theirs. Not to mention stuff he can buy in the commissary - ramen noodles, candy, crackers, cookies etc.
So in summary, SBF is lying and trying to drum up sympathy for his own self-inflicted situation. I’m sure prison food sucks compared to what mommy makes or what his ill gotten fortunes could buy, but he is not reduced to bread and water.
The MDC is administered by the federal bureau of prisons and plainly states in its own literature that it offers the nationalised standard menu. So me pointing you at the link to the nationalised standard menu couldn’t be more relevant. It’s literally what they have to eat in this place and other federal facilities.
I think the true argument is that dietary preference is a bit of a slippery slope. One could easily claim that they abide by a diet of only steak, truffles and lobster.
Obviously that is not feasible for a prison kitchen to fulfil. I do agree though that an effort could be made. I’m not sure if religious preference is catered to (no pork f.i.) and I could even see a point of not serving meat at all.
But the bottom line is that you can’t let the prisoner make food demands like that and be considered unethical if not fulfilled. Medically there’s not really a case here. Water and bread sounds a bit brutal, but it’s not likely that he has no choice at all, it’s also a bit of an act that his legal team will no doubt will utilise in court to claim ‘inhuman circumstances’
It’s not a slippery slope. Vegans have a saying, veganism is the moral baseline. Other prisoners who want to eat steak or chicken or hot dogs are being catered to for their preferences even though those actively cause victimization. But somebody wants to not victimize animals with their diet and all of a sudden it’s “fuck them”. None of you have thought about this at all.
What he has been accused of doing. He has not been proven guilty. I’m not saying he’s not guilty but until proven so, whatever happened to “innocent until proven guilty”?
Yes earlier in the thread it was very mob like. That’s me just placating I suppose. He has not been proven guilty and they’re already starving him. Doubly wrong.
Theft from animals is unethical, while theft from humans is ethical (based on his actions and your logic). From this we can extrapolate that humans aren’t animals at all.
You mean “stealing”, which is incongruent with autonomy in every sense. I won’t make excuses for meat eaters if you don’t make excuses for scam artists.
Okay. Lets try again. Stealing people’s finances is not the same as stealing from their anatomy. I dont know know why you think I care about SBF specifically.
Would you think the same if a mass murderer was requesting vegan food? For example the girl that killed new born babies on purpose, would you also be like: “poor girl, give her a vegan menu!”
Yes. A convicted murderer sitting in prison is still a human being with human rights. Fuck this dehumanizing system that only knows punishment. It’s no wonder that the recidivism rate in the US is one of the highest in the world.
What problem does feeding a mass murderer dead animals solve exactly? Do you not think it’s disrespectful to animals to treat them as fodder for petty vengeance?
It’s obvious that’s what’s happening. Vegans are coming out in droves arguing people shouldn’t ever be put in jail simply because SBF is a vegan and they care more about their own than anyone else. They’re circling the wagons around this guy, and they never considered that he could just be lying, exaggerating or purposefully playing to them to get them to do exactly what they’re doing.
What they’re doing isn’t accomplishing any good. Neither are you when you defend them. All it’s causing is discord.
Vegans are coming out in droves arguing people shouldn’t ever be put in jail simply because SBF is a vegan and they care more about their own than anyone else.
You’re literally the guy who said you don’t believe in rights but think people in jail should still be able to be vegan, and to another guy you admitted you don’t know what should be done with people if there is no jail. You even went so far as to defend revenge while the rest of your little gang of trolls accused everyone else of being subhuman, violent, bloodthirsty savages for even thinking other people deserve to be punished. Other people of your little tribe or whatever were even arguing with CSA survivors because of it.
You need to sit down and drink yourself a nice tall glass of shut the fuck up. And take the other awful jackasses of yours out with you.
You’re literally the guy who said you don’t believe in rights but think people in jail should still be able to be vegan, and to another guy you admitted you don’t know what should be done with people if there is no jail. You even went so far as to defend revenge
No, people just have a principle and are applying it evenly. Even if he’s lying about being vegan, there’s not really a downside to giving him vegan food. It seems as if your argument rests on some notion that it hurts everyone’s ego or pride or something to grant this request, because it certainly doesn’t make a material difference to any of us. And you’re seriously misreading people’s arguments in this thread. Did your wife leave you for a vegan or something?
No, they really are doing nothing but aiding and abetting a con man because he appealed to their pet issue to get them to do it. He already has a vegan option, it’s called a PBJ. Part of being in jail means you don’t get the choices you’d get out on the outside, and part of life in jail is accepting that. If he didn’t want to suffer, he shouldn’t have stolen billions from innocent people – or at least went so far as to steal from other rich people.
You’re just not listening because you, yourself likely are a vegan. And you don’t want to admit you’re getting played.
By the same token you’d say someone doesn’t get the choice to drink clean water or piss in a real toilet. You have the right to follow an obviously extant and relatively mainstream philosophy such as veganism when you’re detained and it’s not aiding and abetting or being played to just give him some potatoes or something. In fact you’ve made me laugh.
It’s not about the prisoner. Why are you victimizing animals to feed the other prisoners in the first place, but then acting like it’s unreasonable not to do it?
Look, we had the report, ok? It was complete and it was an amazing report, a perfect report, it was just so good. Some say it was the best report they ever saw. My lawyers said, Donald, how did you come up with this, are you a lawyer? Because it was just so perfect. If only they knew! I’m better than any lawyer! And then Obama, this guy… where was he even born? Who is this guy? He sends his vicious dogs after me, they almost got me, these thugs, these evil dogs… and they ate my report. He was so jealous of my report! Look, believe me, ok, I’ll rewrite the report. It will be even better. The best. Believe me.
Honestly this blood is on the hands of places like Fox News and OAN. They cater to and mermen’s mental illness until it manifests like this. And they know it. Fox News was making fun of its viewers off camera. The way that the skillfully manipulate the minds of the vulnerable is nothing short of intentional. If a therapist were to do this they would see jail time for sure. But when the media does it, we all just shrug.
Sigh, “ferment” is what I was going for… not sure what my auto correct was thinking when I fat fingered that. I won’t change it as the responses to it are funny and deserve context.
Considering they didn’t go to his house to shoot him, yeah it didn’t. But all bets are off when you shoot at people let alone law enforcement. Especially after posting the equivalent of “come get me you pussies!”
Braxton said in the lawsuit, which CBS News reviewed, that Newbern had not held an election “for decades.” Instead, “the office of mayor was ‘inherited’ by a hand-picked successor,” and that mayor then chose town council members, again without an election. All prior mayors have been White residents, the lawsuit said, even though about 85% of Newbern’s population is Black. Only one Black person has ever served on the town council.
Braxton was allegedly the only person who qualified for the position of mayor, according to the lawsuit. Stokes "did not bother to qualify as a candidate," the lawsuit said, even though he knew Braxton was planning to run. No candidates qualified for town council positions, either.
Braxton was elected mayor by default, making him the first Black mayor of Newbern in the 165 years since the town was founded.
That's an important bit of context, they still didn't have a proper election.
They did have a proper election. There was only one candidate, so he won. Then they had a second, improper election where only the previous council was allowed to qualify for office or vote.
Legally yes, but part of the article makes it sound like there was a regular election between two candidates with everything you expect and the winner is being denied. That's not the case and we don't know how the citizens actually feel about this. It did, after all, take decades for someone to do this.
Not that any of this should have ever happened in the first place, they should have just run the elections normally.
Yes, but in this case a different (much dumber) system had been established for decades without objection it seems. That's different than just having regular, official elections with just one candidate, which is what they should have done in the first place. We don't know who would have won if it was a normal, two-candidate election.
This going to court is a good thing because a) anyone could have filed the paperwork and won by default, including someone who would abuse the position and be really terrible for the town and b) this is certainly the end of the unofficial-official system they've had and might bring bad stuff to light. But keep in mind that the article's coming on very strong because they mostly cite the prosecution.
Yes, I'm sure they haven't held an election in 165 years because the 85% black population all agreed it would just be a waste of time. Are you serous?
There actually was a regular election- the incumbents just declined to run a candidate against Braxton. Are you suggesting we should cast doubt on that result until the incumbents agree to qualify a candidate (so, never)?
Yes, I'm sure they haven't held an election in 165 years because the 85% black population all agreed it would just be a waste of time. Are you serous?
What are you suggesting happened? Nobody seemed to give a shit for decades even though the situation seems clearly in favour of whoever actually decides to go through the official channels. It sounds like everyone has just been completely apathetic to who's running the town, including the 85% black majority.
There actually was a regular election
What I mean by "regular" is the kind of election where people go out to vote for one of two or more candidates. Someone winning by default doesn't say much about what the people want, except that they, once again, don't seem to really care.
I'm suggesting that what happened with this election may have happened in the past.
When he approached Stokes for information about running for mayor, Stokes allegedly gave Braxton "wrong information about how to qualify" for the election, and did not provide public notice to residents about the election.
just weeks after his election, Stokes and his council members Gary Broussard, Jesse Donald Leverett, Voncille Brown Thomas and Willie Richard Tucker allegedly "met in secret to adopt a 'special' election ordinance." Notice of the meeting was not published, and the group set a special election for Oct. 6, 2020.
No notice of that election was ever published, according to the lawsuit. Because the election was not publicized, only Stokes and his council members qualified.
you wrote:
It sounds like everyone has just been completely apathetic to who's running the town, including the 85% black majority.
Does it? It actually sounds like a white minority council bends over backwards to keep themselves in power by ignoring opposition and holding private special elections.
What I mean by "regular" is the kind of election where people go out to vote for one of two or more candidates. Someone winning by default doesn't say much about what the people want, except that they, once again, don't seem to really care.
Don't confuse oppression with apathy.
Stokes and his council allegedly changed the locks for a third time, and according to the lawsuit, Braxton and his council have not had "uninterrupted access" to the building since April 2021. This meant that in November 2022, he could not help set up voting machines for Newbern's most recent election.
They will not let them hold elections. Read the article before you "innocently assume" these people "don't seem to really care".
I don't see how a small group like that could truly oppress them, especially in an age where everything can easily be documented with video proof and when this case seem clear cut. Someone could have done this ten or twenty years ago. Running a small campaign on the platform of "fuck those racists" should be simple enough in a town with an 85% black majority, but that wasn't even necessary here because that clique's so dumb.
Anyway, I've made my point, you can have the last word.
I don't see how a small group like that could truly oppress them
That's wild because it's literally explained in the article and then quoted by me here. It's the part of my posts you keep ignoring.
Your questions are not unanswered- the white minority council has evidentially maintained power by ignoring elections and by holding private special elections, like they did in 2020, and by also refusing to allow elections to take place, like they did in 2022.
The only point you've made is that reading the article is not a requirement to comment on it.
I think the whole reason that they didn’t field a candidate against Braxton is precisely to get people casting doubt on the a validity of “won by default”.
There is a process to hold office, everyone has a pretty good idea of what that means. They can’t plead ignorance.
news
Top
This magazine is from a federated server and may be incomplete. Browse more on the original instance.