it cant make other liquids wet because its already wet by nature. thats just what liquids are. no matter how many times you tell me im wrong, i’ll always know you are wrong
it cant make other liquids wet because its already wet by nature
incorrect. this is the association fallacy-- you cannot prove it is wet other than through fallacy. wetness is only a property it can give to other things, not a property it possesses itself. water can’t be wet simply because it makes something else wet.
therefore, you are wrong.
no matter how many times you tell me im wrong, i’ll always know you are wrong
no its you being a hypocrite, which is why you are wrong
water is wet, and everything you try saying how it “only gives wetness but doesnt have it” just further is proving how water is wet. because everything that touches it becomes wet, besides water, because ita already wet
How disappointing that you’ve turned to anger and accusations, all because you refuse to accept that water is not wet, it merely makes things that touches wet.
actually it is you who can’t wrap your head around the fact that water is wet, and it’s because it makes other things wet. water cant make wet water because water is already wet in the first place
Nope. Water is not wet. It just makes other things wet.
And insulting me by saying I’m “cracking” just because I’ve said the same thing over and over makes no sense. That sounds desperate. So does breaking down into foul language when you don’t get your way…
you are projecting again. not sure what sounds angry in any of my comments
You keep saying that after you do it, along with swearing and name-calling. I recommend that you go outside for a breath of fresh air. The fact that water isn’t wet, but only makes things wet obviously has you infuriated…
Maybe you’d even understand that water isn’t sugar (or fire) while you’re at it!
and you seem to be taking every comment in only the worst possible way imaginable. no anger here, and there hasnt been any name calling. perhaps you made it up? please show me where my comments offended you and i will explain myself clearly, for i do not know what you talk about
Nah, water isn’t wet, it just makes other things wet. It’s unfortunate that this upsets you to the point that you have to make up stories about me and that you have amnesia about the things you’ve said— that you even confuse water with sugar and fire. You must be in quite the twist.
its not ive forgotten but my brain just made my memories get forgotten. but i havent forgotten lets get that straight
and if it is just water, why go through all the trouble of convincing that it isnt wet? feels we are just arguing the meaning of the word wet and not the word that can describe water the best (which is wet)
its not ive forgotten but my brain just made my memories get forgotten. but i havent forgotten lets get that straight
So… you didn’t forget… your brain forgot? lol
And I’m not trying to convince you of anything— I’m just correcting you. It’s you who have been trying all the convincing with your logical fallacies, acting like water is the same as fire or sugar. Then I have to correct you again by informing you that water is not sugar or fire. I’ve had to do that more than once now.
Since you are so confused, I suggest you take a rest. Water isn’t wet. It just makes things wet.
water is wet. because it makes things wet. and you seem to not grasp what a comparison is either. i never said fire or sugar was water i was comparing your logic to something else
and my first point is basically what is being said about water “not being wet” it is yet another comparison, as in i didnt forget my brain made me forget. water isnt wet it just makes things wet. comparison
One again, I must correct you and - apparently - your brain that makes you forget things.
Water is not wet; it just makes things wet. The transitive property of math does not apply to water because water is not math. (Another thing water is not).
You seem increasingly confused, blaming your “brain” for your mistakes. I suggest giving your “brain” a nice rest.
Once again, it’s a false equivalence logical fallacy— neither sugar nor fire are water, and there is no reason to believe they would act like water. Especially considering that water is not wet, it just makes things wet.
This seems to be causing you quite a bit of distress and memory problems. I suggest a rest.
You falsely compared to water to fire and sugar. Water is neither fire nor sugar. Water has none of the properties of fire nor sugar. You are clearly very confused about what water is and what sugar and fire are.
You blamed your “brain” for this. Repeatedly.
May you and your “brain” have a speedy recovery as you ponder how water is not wet, it just makes other things wet.
“Nuh uh!” isn’t a very compelling argument. It seems that you are the one who is out of ideas and whose “brain” keeps forgetting things… weren’t you the one accusing me of projecting? Lol
you just said nuh uh isnt a compelling argument and then just did exactly that LMAO
I see that your “brain” is still confused, since that’s not what happened. But it’s cute that you think it is. Like how you think sugar and fire are water.
But water isn’t wet; it just makes other things wet.
Now your “brain” seems to be hallucinating, since I never made such a claim. This whole this seems to have really upset you. Perhaps you should take a break and consider how water isn’t wet— it just makes other things wet.
i’ve already used the sad remark in a comment, so in your reply moaning about copying you directly copy me. and when did i say you have nothing original to say? never
water is wet. i can tell because i touch it and it is wet
lol, now your imagination is getting a bit carried away— and you can’t even remember the things you said. All because water isn’t wet, it just makes things wet.
im not upset. im just wondering why you are always making things up is all, and why you think water isnt wet because it is obvious water is wet, everything water touches becomes wet so how can it not be wet?
Given your tone, the swearing, the making stuff up, and the frequent problems with your “brain”, you obviously are upset. Just because water isn’t wet, but just makes things wet isn’t cause for all of that.
You keep saying that, yet you’re the only one who uses strong language and had repeated trouble with his “brain”, hallucinating… And just because you can’t read tone in text doesn’t mean others can’t. The amount you’re tormenting yourself over water not being wet, just making other things wet… it’s silly.
You keep saying that, but the only rage and pretend seems to come from your own cheer and projection. Really, I wonder, if it weren’t for the waters (that don’t wet) where would you get you wetting?
No insults, just observations of your “brain” problems that you keep having, the one which keep you from understanding that water isn’t wet, it just makes things wet.
There’s that “brain” getting things wrong again, as you’ve often admitted it does, just like it keeps mistaking water for being wet when it just makes things wet. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
You’re the one who first admitted that your “brain” wasn’t working right, which is obvious since you don’t understand that water isn’t wet, it just makes things wet. Lol
your “brain” is yet again not working. you dont know what a comparison is even after explanation, why would i ever believe you when you say water isnt wet 😂
There your “brain” goes again not working, thinking water is wet when it’s not, just because it makes other things wet. Weren’t you the one accusing me of projecting, lol?
There your “brain” goes again not working, thinking water is wet when it’s not, just because it makes other things wet. Weren’t you the one accusing me of projecting, lol?
It threw me at first too. Helps to think of it as wetness being an interaction between a liquid and solid. Water makes things wet, it isn’t itself wet.
You’d have to ask a physicist. I would be surprised if you couldn’t make other liquids “wet”. The solid analogy helps with conceptualising an interface, one material on another. I suppose you could make water wet, by freezing a block and then splashing said block with water but that doesn’t equate to it being wet itself, if that makes sense.
Wetting is a rather complex topic. Basically, yes.
Not all solids can be wetted. Wax, for example: water beads up on a waxed surface; it does not actually wet the surface.
Not all “wetting” involves water. Soldering and brazing involve “wetting” base materials with a molten filler metal. Dripping molten metal on the base material does not necessarily “wet” it either: the molten filler can “bead” just like water on wax. When it solidifies, the filler metal is not bonded to the unwetted base metal.
This describes very specifically how water makes other things wet. Nowhere, does it describe water making itself wet, because it can’t. Wetness is a property that water can only give to other things, not to itself.
Lol literally arguing with a chemist who’s only job was studying water. Yeah I can see where you’re mistaken. Thinking you’re smarter than the professionals.
They were red and round, the leaves were green or were they blue? No, green for sure. You have to remember me, I was wearing the same hat last year! C’mon!
Age is just a number. I may just be 27 on paper, but I identify as a boomer and deserve my drive-in theater, $20k family home and land barge with couch seats.
Those land yachts were terrifying. It felt like driving a boat, and by that I mean you never felt in control, like the road was the sea and you were at its mercy. Turning the wheel was a suggestion to the car. Breaking felt like a quiet request to a busy waiter in a loud restaurant. The whole experience was akin to a janky “I’m in danger” carnival ride.
This was my experience as a pre teen in my grandpa’s ~1970 Lincoln Continental with a power/weight ratio of 13.5lbs/hp I can’t imagine something with vastly more power feeling better.
(Holy hell that car weighed as much as a tri motor plaid model S)
What do you mean ai upscaling was applied? All I did was point the camera at the view in front of me then click the button to capture it 🤔 Are you saying that my smartphone manipulated the photo somehow? everything looks normal in that photo to me except things are blurry and unclear because everything was far away and my lense was probably smudged & beaten up a bit from age anyway
We’re gonna have to go back to Polaroid technology for unmanipulated instant photos again, aren’t we?
okay but seriously there’s literally nothing in this photo that didn’t occur in real life at that moment. I want you to put a red circle around everything in that photo you think is ai.
Yes. You said “you can see the ai upscaling if you zoom in enough.” So I’m asking you to zoom in and make red circles around the things you think are ai upscaling. Whatever “ai upscaling” is, I have no idea what that means. I’m asking you to show me with red circles.
Hey, you! Take a screenshot of that picture, zoom in, and put red circles around everything you think indicates ai upscaling. Do it and post your red circles photo here.
Thank you! Yes I literally emerged from the beach club yesterday, got on the boardwalk, saw that comically-dressed fellow, pulled out my phone and snapped this spontaneous picture. There’s no editing or anything whatsoever, especially not ai.
Santa Monica Pier & all the wacky random people always makes for fun photos.
And also it was funnier because it wasn’t something people actually trust to give them the correct answer to something, but rather a sketch comedy radio show.
By consenting to corruption and a path to WWIII. That is not protecting them, in fact it is ensuring them a terrible future. If you cared about them, you would vote, volunteer, donate, and support the PSL, CPUSA, or Green party instead.
None of those parties have a ghost of a chance of winning, and with as razor thin as the win margins were in 2016 and 2020, I’m not confident Biden will win if we don’t vote for him. I sincerely hope I do not have to explain why Trump would be worse on literally every issue (especially Gaza) than Biden is.
Bro’s protest voting when the Weimar American Republic has Nazis on the ballot and thinks building “grassroots support” for the twentieth year in a row justifies it when the world is about to run out of time anyways
You want Green candidates? Tell them to run as Democrats or make a fucking militia.
Dems are actually fascists, and you are as well for not only voting for them, but gathering support for them online when you could be doing that for a decent party.
The Democrat party is just as corrupt and bought out by corporations as the Republicans are, but at least they aren’t trying to get the country to circle the drain as quickly.
Did they? We got back in the Paris climate accords, gay marriage got codified into an actual law, student loan forgiveness started rolling out, clamping down on junk fees and overdraft fees…
Right now, no one knows your chosen third-party candidate exists. Let’s suppose you, personally, set out to change that. Let’s suppose you’re the best campaign manager ever, and that you and your friends lead the best grassroots campaign in history, so much so that come November you’ve convinced everyone who would have voted third party and two-thirds of the people who would have voted for Biden to vote for your candidate instead.
Let’s suppose that, had you done nothing, the vote breakdown will be the same in 2024 as it was in 2020. Biden got 51.3% of the popular vote, Trump got 46.8%, and that leaves just under 2% who voted third party. In 2024, thanks to your heroic efforts, the green party candidate gets 36.2% of the vote and Biden gets 17.1%, but oh no – Trump wins by a landslide because Trump supporters, who care not for your left-of-center politics, stuck by their guy and gave him 46% of the vote again, and in first-past-the-post voting, that’s all that matters! Your heroic efforts to get your message out about your better candidate only resulted in splitting the vote and ensuring Trump would win!
In 2024, thanks to your heroic efforts, the green party candidate gets 36.2% of the vote and Biden gets 17.1%, but oh no – Trump wins by a landslide because Trump supporters, who care not for your left-of-center politics, stuck by their guy and gave him 46% of the vote again, and in first-past-the-post voting, that’s all that matters! Your heroic efforts to get your message out about your better candidate only resulted in splitting the vote and ensuring Trump would win!
This would be the greatest accomplishment for the working class in American history if it happened. The Greens would then start to win congressional seats, and being the process of taking over the government like the Morena party just did in Mexico.
It’s also completely impossible. A campaign that could convince two thirds of Biden voters to switch would shatter every record for a grassroots campaign (heck, even a corporate backed campaign) that had ever been set, by orders of magnitude. You are not going to convince a statistically significant number of people to switch their vote, especially not between now and November.
I also feel like you’re missing the part where even if you DID accomplish that, Trump would still win the presidency! If you vote third party you might as well not vote!
Especially given how slim the win margins were in 2020 and 2016, I’m not convinced that Biden will win if we don’t all vote for him. I hate the DNC as much as anyone else does, but if you don’t want a person who openly plans to abuse his Presidential powers to punish his opponents for daring to prosecute him for a crime he committed, you only have one choice.
It’s also completely impossible. A campaign that could convince two thirds of Biden voters to switch would shatter every record for a grassroots campaign (heck, even a corporate backed campaign) that had ever been set, by orders of magnitude. You are not going to convince a statistically significant number of people to switch their vote, especially not between now and November.
You’re the one that made this ridiculous argument in the first place. I am expressing democracy by supporting and growing the party I agree with the most.
I came up with a ridiculous, hyperbolic example that would still result in a victory for Trump to demonstrate that no amount of effort from third party voters would sway the election, even if they could all agree on who the best third party candidate was. Apparently hardcore leftists are so dense you thought I was saying it could actually happen.
But thank you for your honesty. Please, support your third party candidate. I’d love to see them grow, truly. But I sincerely hope you don’t think they actually have a chance, not while the people who operate the DNC are breathing.
I do criticize Biden. I have also written three paragraphs in this thread already about why a third party winning the presidency is impossible, and thus voting for Biden is necessary to prevent Trump taking office. Good to see leftists are just as incapable of defending their positions as always.
Voting third party is great at the local level. Voting third party at the national level when they don’t already have a hold anywhere else does not even grow the party. It just wastes your vote.
Which is it, do you not understand FPTP voting, do you think that voting for a third party candiate at the presidential level will convince anyone who is not already a member of the green party to switch, or are you really this dense?
We could have an entirely separate conversation about why the Green Party in specific sucks, not least because the candidate they put forward thinks vaccines cause autism, but if you can’t be convinced that voting third party doesn’t do anything I don’t want to talk to you anymore at all.
If your next response is less than three sentences long I’m going to block you.
You don’t understand FPTP voting. It’s a common system, you can read about it and see many countries have parties that rise and fall in power, it’s not limited to 2 parties, you are simply a victim of propaganda.
Yes, yes, we all know what happens when you scratch a liberal but it’s better than not having to scratch to find it. Even if all that’s holding the powers that be back is a skin-deep veneer of civility and deniability a vote to strip that veneer away makes you a fool, not a revolutionary.
Nobody likes voting for the lesser of two evils, but we all have to if we want to stop an even further decline into hell. Our system is broken, and we don’t have any way of fixing it immediately, so we have to work with what we can. Trump as president will have immediate and direct consequences for many people, and it will be the fault of people like you that it happened. At this point, not voting for Biden is the same thing as voting for Trump. You may continue virtue signaling after we get through the crisis right in front of us.
The system is set up in a way that the only viable options are between two evils, unfortunately. Under a FPTP system where the only good options are minority parties that won’t win a single seat in their districts, you’re left with the choice of voting for the lesser evil, or voting for your morals but increasing the risk of the greater evil winning.
Lmao the green party isn’t going to do jack shit. They’re completely unserious about politics. They aren’t even trying to build up an infrastructure in all 50 states that lets them get suffused into local and state politics. They aren’t even aiming for Congressional seats, which would be necessary for an actual Green president to get anything done.
They’re just anti science grifters who think wifi causes cancer, entertain vaccine skepticism, and demonize nuclear energy – the latter of which could be a major asset to stopping global warming. Newer designs are even able to consume nuclear waste, meaning an anti nuclear position results in more waste than we would otherwise.
I’m afraid all of us don’t have that much free time. But hey, if you can get them to stop being anti science and actually become a serious party, I’ll consider them.
Just don’t expect me to accept the Green Party’s many imperfections. If you don’t accept the Democrat’s imperfections, then you should perfectly understand.
Until Stein vehemently recants her remarks about WiFi causing cancer, vaccine skepticism, and nuclear fear mongering – or the Green party completely disavows her and those remarks – it would be a total waste of time.
It isn’t my job as an engineer to tell “the only voice in politics that supports the science of climate change” to stop endorsing completely anti science positions. Nor is it on me to try and correct a willfully anti science party. They need to show good faith, and they’ve done nothing whatsoever to suggest any of that to me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2suVx9cDKw She is the one with a medical degree, so you don’t have any authority over her opinion, sounds reasonable for her to make her stance out of concern, even if she is wrong.
I’m also an engineer, and that’s why I use my knowledge to try to influence the party.
I actually had my local Socialist Party USA chapter kick me out, ban me from their facebook, and publicly announce that I’m a rape apologist because I wouldn’t tell people to support an openly transphobic “Vaccines Cause Autism” Green Party candidate over Joe Biden.
You get it! We can’t fuck over vulnerable people. We can’t abandon minorities and LGBT people. Even if we let things get worse to the point of a societal collapse, a lot of people will die because of it – and societal collapse has not historically led to better societies down the road.
Last I tried my Socialist Party USA chapter belittled me, called me a rape apologist, and refused to do anything for the local community outside of shaming people for wanting to vote out Trump by any means possible.
Here’s a brutal truth for you then. Being a raging, unapologetic jerk won’t progress your political goals. It’ll only make them harder to achieve.
My goal isn’t to convince you, only show how you are wrong so people looking at this post will be influenced by it. Looking at your profile, you are too far gone.
I feel like this reply is for someone else? We’re both coming from a leftist position. Democrats only think they’re being overrun with bots and propaganda because they aren’t actually politically informed enough to know the valid reasons why people don’t like them.
Yes, yes. we all know republicans are worse. But democrats could’ve entirely prevented this, which they didn’t. They enabled it. Being better than republicans doesn’t mean the situation is better with democrats. In fact, it’s getting so much worse every single year.
And the situation we’re in will continue to get worse as long as long as we’re playing the hand that’s been dealt to us instead of taking an active roll in improving things around us.
My trans friends are what keeps me committed to voting Biden no matter how disappointed I am in him. Things are already really scary for them right now and I can’t be complicit in making them worse, even through inaction.
Consider me another one of your trans friends. If Trump gets elected I’m probably gonna die in a concentration camp. Don’t do that to me, don’t do that to them. I’m begging you for my life.
I’d suggest taking a flight overseas the day after the elections, booked prior to it. If Trump losses, you can use it to celebrate it. If he wins… well, you can ask for asylum on arrival.
I am trans and not voting for Biden. I refuse to sacrifice Palestinians for my own safety or the safety of my loved ones. All the stuff people say now about them being an acceptable sacrifice or there being nothing they can do about it, that’s what they’ll be saying about us tomorrow. Solidarity between marginalized groups is the only viable strategy for long term survival.
I hate being used as a rhetorical token to make people feel better about selling out another vulnerable group.
If our “democracy” has decayed to the point where I’m not able to vote on whether or not we do a genocide, then it is not a democracy and I should not legitimize the sham through participation.
There is no circumstance under which I will support genocide. If that means I die, then I will die. If any of you had a backbone you’d do the same. And if enough people drew that line, they’d have no choice but to listen to us.
Grow up. If you really want to fix our democracy it’s going to take time. Vote for every chance you get. We already have one state with ranked choice voting. If you want a real democracy that is our avenue
Oh, does Biden support ranked choice voting, then?
He doesn’t. I’m not going to support asshole after asshole in the vain hope that maybe out of the kindness of their hearts they’ll eventually give us freedom, which directly opposes their own interests. You’re the one that needs to grow up if you believe that fairy tale.
You know, I used to be a lot more extreme than I am now. When I was younger, I said I wouldn’t vote for anyone unless they were going to reform the system to where I wouldn’t have to vote for a lesser evil anymore, demanding that our rulers give up their power.
Now, all I’m asking is that they stop slaughtering people. They can rule over us in their sham democracy, if they would just stop killing all these people. They won’t even do that. So again, my answer is “Hell no, fuck off.” Biden is my enemy and I will oppose him just as I oppose Trump, regardless of what the odds are. Again, anyone with a spine and a conscience should be doing the same.
And you will lose and thePalestinians will die anyway. If you believe in your cause you would accept the fact that you might not live to see it come to fruition. That’s what dying for a cause is all about.
Want to stop a genocide? Vote for a guy fighting against it happening in Ukraine
Nope. There is no reasoning with me on this, my position is absolute and set in stone. You want my vote, get a better candidate. No other option, period.
They will flinch first. And if they don’t, then we’ll go to hell together. You’re wasting your time with me.
Well, if not voting for Trump counts as supporting him, then rest assured that Biden will have my “support.”
I’m not lifting a finger to help either of them. If Trump wins, it’ll be because the Democrats nominated that senile, genocidal corporate sycophant. It’s their job to win elections, not mine. I’ve heard you people try to shift all blame away from your shitty party and onto the left a thousand times before. You’re wasting your time. As I said, I don’t give a shit. Fix the party, win without me, or lose. Your choice, I’ve made mine.
I know that you think I’m throwing a childish fit. That’s because, fundamentally, you don’t consider Palestinians to be human beings, just as your kind didn’t see Iraqis or Afghans as human when they were being slaughtered. To you, this is just some random pet issue I’ve taken up to feel good about myself. But it’s not. I have nothing but hatred for Biden and people like him, and I have incredibly good reason for that. “Genocide” isn’t just a word, it’s not something to be casually brushed aside. It must be opposed, everything else be damned. If you genuinely attempted to see the world from their perspective, you would understand.
Someday the democrats will decide that us trans people are too much of a liability and throw us under the bus too, and you’ll rationalize it by placing us in the exact same subhuman category you use whenever they murder a million people in the Middle East. Call me childish all you want, you’re just telling on yourself about how seriously you take their deaths.
Oh, yeah, you know what, I’ve already made the decision to accept considerable risk to myself and the people I care about because of my absolute commitment to opposing genocide, but if you just bring up some other random issue, that’s totally gonna change my mind. Wtf I love Biden now.
In any case the best thing to happen for the Ukrainian people is that they stop being drafted and forced into a meat grinder to reclaim territory for a state that doesn’t care about them. But regardless, it doesn’t matter. I’m not going to support a genocide to stop anything! I don’t know how I can possibly make that position more clear to you.
Stop wasting your time with me and go waste your time trying to get your party to be less shit.
The best thing to happen to Ukrainians is for Russia to be stopped. You say you are against genocide but are unwilling to prevent the one that can be stopped.
If trump wins anything that happens to you you deserve because you brought it on yourself. It’s a pity you are willing to let it happen to everyone else
I’m not going to support a genocide to stop anything!
Ironically, not even to stop a genocide. You’d rather two genocides happen than try to at least prevent one.
If the trolley is going to run over people regardless, and you have the option afterwards to prevent it from running over more people, the moral option is not abstaining.
Pro lifers who don’t believe in any exceptions believe abortions are genocide as well, and are willing to accept any and all consequence of total bans. There’s a similarity with your thinking, and it’s one you should seriously examine.
Your opinion is your own, as are your beliefs. Just be aware of their consequences and how others may perceive your morality.
Some of us don’t like seeking out stressful news about the government coming after us just to answer a non sequitur from an asshole. Doesn’t mean it’s not out there.
You: “Ha, I knew you couldn’t provide evidence, this proves I’m right.”
Me: “Ok here’s evidence.”
You: “That evidence is irrelevant”
Good talk.
Btw you’re literally proving my exact point. The Dems have decided to sacrifice us and you’re fine with it and are justifying it using the exact same logic you use to justify supporting the genocide of Palestinians. You’ve proven that my position is the correct one.
And here we go again. Once someone from a marginalized group exposes the lack of backbone and the insincerity of you, you attack him personally and suggest him to be part of “the enemy”. It is funny in a sad way because this reads exactly like /r/conservative over on reddit, when people challenged the current Trump narrative.
Or maybe if the average American stood with the marginalized instead of yelling at them to fall in line, we wouldn’t constantly have issues where the marginalized are systemically murdered and imprisoned. The blood isn’t on their hands for having morals and boundaries. It’s on the masses who refuse to give up even an ounce of comfort to lend a hand to the downtrodden. The path the democrats are on is the same path the current republicans have walked before.
Who are you willing to sacrifice for your own comfort? Why is that a valid position? Because the other guy points that same weapon at you instead and it’s scary? How many different groups are you willing to put on that sacrifice list until you just turn into a fascist republican? “Just following orders” is just as cowardly a response as “It was my only choice”.
Comfort? You’re idiot won’t wake up and realize the world is not that simple. You are already accepting yhe genocide of Ukrainians and lbgtq people because your ego won’t accept that change only happens with work and time. You are no different than they are.
Queer person here: we’ve had to violently fight for our rights and were successful in the past and we will do it again if we need to, so expecting a vote for anything will fix the issues of the marginalized is very out of touch. Doing nothing but voting is 99% political apathy, and it very much feels like all this browbeating is coming from someone who only votes and mayyyyybe donates to the ACLU or planned parenthood once every couple years. Do some real work and stop spending so much of your mental energy on inconsequential (assuming you don’t live in a handful of swing states) things. Build coalitions. Form or join unions. Stand up for what is right and protest what is wrong.
Tell that to the person I am talking to. I am not saying voting is all that matters. But it does matter and in 2024 we only have two options unless you want to throw away your vote on a third party that has zero chance winning.
So you know what state that person resides? You’ve confirmed they live in a swing state where their vote for president actually matters? (This is not me advocating against voting since local/state positions are important, but if you’re focused on president, only a handful of states really make a difference at all).
I am talking about all elections. My state is voting Trump with out a doubt, but it wont stop me from voting. And who knows? Maybe another epidemic will hit that republicans will ignore and my state might end up blue?
My state is ruby red and even the fairly large city I live in is red. Begging people to vote specifically for biden in situations like ours only makes people more apathetic since they know Biden has no shot. But if you tell people how to be more politically involved outside of voting, they’ll be more empowered to want to vote just so they can get people more aligned with them in their local and state elections. It’s the state government in red states like ours that will enact awful policies that we will actually feel. Pushing an unpopular president as the main reason to show up to the booth will only make them stay home instead.
Tangential: Covid is still killing a ton of people every month (though it gets better in warmer weather). This past January had over 10k covid deaths that were largely ignored by Biden and pretty much everyone else who are desperate to show how “good” things are now. But also, I’d caution against being hopeful for another pandemic that would wipe out conservatives since it’s tiptoeing on fascism, which you’re trying to be distinctly different to, eh? If a huge portion of Americans are fascist, America will be a fascist nation. I’ve heard conservatives wish that CA would sink into the ocean and that NYC would get swept away from a hurricane and I hope to god we haven’t ratcheted so far that now democrats are wishing and hoping for the deaths of their political enemy.
I didn’t say I want another epidemic to happen. I am pointing out there is still a slim chance we can win. Maybe they will be so sure of victory a bunch will stay home. Maybe one of the candidates will die.
If your chance of winning hinges on your opponent suddenly not being there anymore, that conclusion is kind of anti-democratic in nature. If (for example) someone says “Things will eventually start getting better once all the boomers are gone”, they’ve already decided who their enemy is and that there’s no use trying to have discussions with them about how to fix things. The world around them slowly becomes less about different people with different ideas and it metastasizes into a country where half of their neighbors want them dead and because of that, they’d see half their neighbors dead as well. This doesn’t go away if trump is defeated in November. Civil war will be right around the corner until people start talking to each other again. The militarism of both parties and the fascism of republicans will, over time, be seen as a less necessary weapon against “the enemy” and divisive politics will ease up. That being said, don’t waste your breath on literal armed Nazis/white supremacist groups. They’re an artifact of the fears and stresses of this current system and have decided the best course of action is the most harmful. They will be less of an issue once society at large isn’t gasping for air and don’t have to blame their woes on one particular group.
My point is, we don’t solve the issue of rising fascism within our borders by waiting it out and hoping it all blows away with time, only coming out from your shelter one day out of the whole year to do political action. Embrace democracy if you believe in it and talk to people who disagree with you(preferably in-person) about why you think the things you think and why it should be changed. Show up to town halls, get to know your local government, join local activism groups. If you want things to change for the better, you can’t just keep doing the same thing that got us into this mess.
Thoughtful, educated and informed voting decisions should be respected. Shame on this duopoly for forcing its electorate to choose between tacit support for a genocide, and outright fascism.
Thank you. I have to vote according to my conscience and what I believe is right, but if someone else’s conscience tells them differently, I can make my case but ultimately it is their decision to make. So many people on here expect everyone to think and see things the exact same way as them and can’t even seem to imagine someone having different values or a different perspective, and that can be very frustrating.
Trans people are not a monolith. There’s other trans people in this thread begging us to vote for Biden for their safety. Your feelings about being a rhetorical token are not invalid, but recognize that other people in your vulnerable group are legitimately crying out for help.
Either way, I’m glad I’m not one of your loved ones. Your own safety is one thing. Their safety is another.
I will do whatever I can to protect my loved ones and ensure they retain access to their meds. But I cannot go against the dictates of my conscience. And as I said, in the long term, solidarity between marginalized groups is the only viable path forward and I will not sacrifice that long term strategy for some fleeting, half-hearted protection. In fact I’ve already seen people applying the “lesser evil” argument to sacrificing trans rights since I posted this. Only by uniting and drawing a red line do we have a chance in the long run.
People think Trump will eventually make things so bad that the average man will salivate at the chance for Socialist rule…
What will actually happen if you get a nasty concoction made from a pinch of Handmaid’s Tale with a dash of Holocaust 2…
And the average man won’t care, as long as the trains run on time and they owned the libs… and if the trains don’t run on time, they probably have libs to blame.
Right? Imagine it’s a fucking Saw Trap, and there’s an easy way out without sacrificing anyone… and an equally easy way out sacrificing everyone. Make the less sociopathic choice.
Biden is literally arming a genocide. He was even adamant about his continued support for that. Meanwhile Dems led cities have brutally beaten up peaceful colelge protests and invited fascist MAGA mobs to attack minority students there.
The DNC and Biden do not protect minorities. They are white supremacists with just a bit more moderation to the means they employ, but they will absolutely resort to authoritarian crackdowns if they feel the minorities to step out of line by demanding justice and rights.
And I’d vote for a corpse before I vote for 34 time Convicted Felon Donald Trump. Eat the rich. Pack the courts. Seize the assets of felonious companies.
“Anyone who thinks themselves a tankie is too self aware to be one” sounds like one of those fallacies you’d learn about in highschool. (What is a tankie, btw? I’ve been too scared to ask…)*
I am by no means an expert, but the test that was explained to me is that if you look at the famous tianamen square picture of the guy holding grocery bags facing down a line of tanks, and then proceed to side with the line of tanks, then you’re a tankie.
When I say that I am not an expert, what I actually mean is that I’m a random idiot from the internet, so don’t take anything I say as gospel truth.
I’ve only been on lemmy for a few months, and I’ve never heard the term tankie on any other platform. My understanding is that a tankie is a militant supporter of communism, who completely disregards (or is in support of) how every time it’s ever actually been done it turns into an authoritarian dictatorship (or something similarly unpleasant to live under).
My own biases exposed: I am an american, and most of what I know I learned in the absolutely fucked american public education system, which says communism = evil, because of the red scare a while back.
If you do some googling, there’s a wikipedia article on the subject. I’ve forgotten most of the content of that article shortly after I read it, I should look at it again and maybe it will stick this time.
I’m a tankie. What tankie is supposed to mean is someone who blindly supports anything anyone does so long as they claim to be communist and wave a red flag. There’s maybe a handful of edgy teens who actually fit that description, but the way it’s actually used is to punch left at anyone who supports anything a socialist country has ever done, or who is insufficiently patriotic/nationalistic and is willing to consider things from an internationalist perspective.
If you say for example that Cuba under Castro had a successful literacy program, then there are people who will accuse you of being a tankie just for that. Because it gets used this way, some people like myself chose to reclaim the insult and wear it proudly.
Generally, the actual term for most “tankies” would be Marxist-Leninist. But I actually prefer tankie because it’s a more general, big tent label. It’s used so broadly that even anarchists can be called tankies. It’s basically like “woke” where it doesn’t actually have any real meaning.
Well I think there are probably a half dozen interpretations that people on Lemmy use. One I have heard repeated is that they view the Tiananmen Square event as something that China rightfully did… hence “Tankie”
The idea that that’s the origin of the term is a common misconception. The actual origin was about the USSR under Kruschev sending in the military in response to a rebellion in Hungary. Some British communists supported the move, while other communists opposed it and labeled the supporters as tankies.
But regardless of the origin, it’s changed to where now it’s liberals using it to criticize socialists in general.
If you say for example that Cuba under Castro had a successful literacy program, then there are people who will accuse you of being a tankie just for that.
$COUNTRY had a successful literacy program under $LEFT_GOVERMENT.
A tankie is, broadly, someone who wants to effect left-wing ideology using authoritarian methods. It originally referred to those who defended the USSR using tanks to suppress the Hungarian Revolution, but it could be aptly used to describe those who defend China’s actions in Tiananmen Square. It’s rightfully used as a perjorative, since authoritarian enforcement is antithetical to leftism, particularly communism.
Tankies are hypocrites who didn’t understand their self-proclaimed ideologies. If someone’s idea of communist praxis is lining up dissenters for the firing squad, you’re dealing with a tankie.
Lots of people say lots of silly things, nonetheless Trump is worse for the proletariat than Biden, and turning your nose up at the lesser evil endangers real people when the greater evil wins. You don’t have to vote for the greater evil to help tip the scales in their favor. Accelerationism is authoritarianism with extra steps and no one in the driver’s seat.
Biden doesn’t accept blame for tipping the scales in their favor. Biden’s family doesn’t accept blame for tipping the scales in their favor. Biden’s campaign doesn’t accept blame for tipping the scales in their favor. The DNC leadership doesn’t accept blame for tipping the scales in their favor. People who voted for Biden in the 2020 primaries don’t accept blame for tipping the scale in their favor. Moderaters and political analysts don’t accept blame for tipping the scales in their favor. People like you letting those people get away with that and focusing on telling me to be quiet and vote for Biden don’t accept blame for tipping the scales in their favor.
IDGAF who does or doesn’t accept blame for whatever. I care about material results; my future, my family’s future, my neighbors’ futures, the future of the people who live in this country, and this world. IDGAF how ideologically pure a politician is, or who’s wrong or right, or who gets away with whatever. I care about the people who are going to suffer if the Federalists, Fascists, and Fundamentalists keep establishing their foothold judge by judge, bill by bill, ruling by ruling.
This isn’t grade school, this isn’t a game, this isn’t about fair. There are real stakes here. People will die. I’m not heartless enough to play the blame game with lives on the line. I’m voting harm reduction because I’m an adult and I play the hand I’m dealt. Righteously losing doesn’t help anything but ego-centric deontology.
I care about material results; my future, my family’s future, my neighbors’ futures, the future of the people who live in this country, and this world.
Same bud. And Biden was never the guy who was going to do that for me. Where were you during the 2020 primaries? Where have you been ever since?
He’s actually been surprisingly effective. Your distaste doesn’t negate his numerous policy accomplishments with tangible benefits.
Even disregarding that, even if he was ineffective, he’s not trying to concentrate power into the hands of Federalists, Fascists, and Fundamentalists, so he is by default the superior choice to those who are. The material results that I care about, that reasonable adults care about, revolve around stopping the Federalists, Fascists, and Fundamentalists. Or are you on their side?
The material results that I care about, that reasonable adults care about, revolve around stopping the Federalists, Fascists, and Fundamentalists. Or are you on their side?
So the answer to that question is “Yes”. Got it. I’m not surprised.
Tankies are hypocrites who didn’t understand their self-proclaimed ideologies.
Tankies are very frequently the only people in the room who’ve done the reading. If you believe that so called “authoritarian methods” are antithetical to leftism, then I recommend you read the following pamphlet by Engels.
Tankies have read Marx and Engels, yes, but there are many other forms of leftism and even other forms of communism that aren’t ML. You are right about ML communists, in particular, but many other leftist movements are anti-authoritarian by their nature, so the point still stands.
Also, it’s possible to do the reading and disagree with the methods of implementation. I agree with the economics and the stated goals of communism, but I don’t believe authoritarianism is the best way to go about it.
I hop off the train at the part where the top-down dictatorship comes into play. Probably a bit before the level of authoritarianism where the Joseph Stalin type starts killing people for having a dissenting opinion, and what not.
Using the state to enforce good wages and end the terribleness of the stock market/landlord culture does not need to involve a top down dictatorship and a lack of democracy.
I know about the “dictatorship of the proletariat” and all that, and in my opinion, it should involve all of the workers, not one person or a small group of people. A top down dictatorship just makes it all that easier for the party to be infiltrated and controlled by bourgeois interests. If said dictatorship is a true democracy, with each worker having an equal say, it makes it pretty hard to control the proles.
So you wouldn’t accept any system that’s not a direct democracy? Where every single person is involved in every single vote? It’s a coherent position I suppose, but IMO totally impractical and idealistic.
I don’t think it’s realistic or pragmatic to expect a perfect direct democracy system. Trying to get as close to one as feasibly possible can be a goal though, and once we’re at that point, try to continually and slowly improve that direct democracy system until it’s even closer and closer and closer, ad infinitum.
You completely disregard, that the soviet union did number 3 and crushed all unions not falling in line. Or that they ignore the will of the proletariat during the 1917 and 1918 elections numerous times.
The authoritarian way isnt being critized for coming down on Capitalists. Its critized for how it treated every deviation from the party line. And especially, how it turned into a political chess game at the top, which prioritized amassing personal power and wealth over the actual well being of the state.
If by “not falling in line” you mean “actively sabotaging the working class for selfish reasons” then I suppose you have a point, but I would argue that in class war those organizations which do not support the working class are fair targets.
the will of the proletariat during the 1917 and 1918 elections
By the time the Bolsheviks were disregarding the results of elections, the People’s Soviets were the state power in the former Russian Empire, and they were a hundred times more democratic than the Duma ever was.
amassing personal power and wealth
I’m sorry comrade but the Soviets simply never did this. The benefits enjoyed by even top Party officials paled in comparison to the lavish lifestyles of the former Russian Empire’s aristocracy or those of the ruling class of any of their contemporary capitalist rivals - even fucking Stalin lived in a shared apartment!
Objectively speaking the Soviet Union was one of the most democratic and equal societies on this Earth during the time of its existence, and you can very clearly see in the data how their system equalized wealth (not “perfectly”, just “better than everyone else has ever done it”), and how the destruction of their system undid all of their progress.
By your metric Stalin should have been shot for undermining soviet defensive capabilities by purging almost every capable military leader? What did Tukhachevsky, Bukharin, Blyukher or Yegorov do to get executed? What were their sabotages? Their names got dropped by tortured officers and in turn they got shot. Setting the red army back years in experience.
And lets not forget the ethnic targetting: Between 1936 and 1938 nearly all ethnic Baltic People were cleansed put of the upper echelon.
I never said mistakes weren’t made. Class war is war and war has collateral damage. The problem here is the total idealistic rejection of “authoritarianism”, where every single thing that has ever worked is classed as such and therefore made off-limits.
“war has collateral damage” mate, Stalins Purges killed 700.000 at least and cost many more people their lives during WW2. Hitler ciuld have been stopped much earloer if Stalin hadnt replaced almost every capable commander with some yes man.
And their purges werent even class war. It was war to uphold the power of a small clique and to satisfy their paranoia.
Just like any other imperialism, the USSR worked out for the imperial core, while the periferal states were fucked over.
I dont want to fucking replace the boot with another one. I want the boot gone.
And yet the Soviet economy uplifted hundreds of millions from poverty and built the war machine that was critical in stopping the Nazis. People went from working on tenant farms to living in modern cities with all of the amenities of the time in a single generation, and the first man in space was the son of a farmer! The achievements of the Soviet Union - yes, even the Soviet Union under Stalin - far outstrip its failures and mistakes. I’m partial to Mao’s overall critique of Stalin, that he was 70% good and 30% bad (which also applies to Mao as it turns out), and I feel that Mark Twain’s quote about the French Revolution equally applies to the Russian one.
THERE were two “Reigns of Terror,” if we would but remember it and consider it; the one wrought murder in hot passion, the other in heartless cold blood; the one lasted mere months, the other had lasted a thousand years; the one inflicted death upon ten thousand persons, the other upon a hundred millions; but our shudders are all for the “horrors” of the minor Terror, the momentary Terror, so to speak; whereas, what is the horror of swift death by the axe, compared with lifelong death from hunger, cold, insult, cruelty, and heart-break? What is swift death by lightning compared with death by slow fire at the stake? A city cemetery could contain the coffins filled by that brief Terror which we have all been so diligently taught to shiver at and mourn over; but all France could hardly contain the coffins filled by that older and real Terror—that unspeakably bitter and awful Terror which none of us has been taught to see in its vastness or pity as it deserves.
one last thing
I dont want to fucking replace the boot with another one. I want the boot gone.
Me too, brother. But the bourgeoisie aren’t going to lift the boot from anyone’s neck willingly, and we have to be willing to stomp on their neck when we have the chance, otherwise a world without class is and will remain completely impossible.
Once again, i am willing to resort tp violence. but not for party elites. I am still getting the impression that you deem the great Terror to have been necessary. It wasnt. It didnt stomp out the “bourgeoisie”. It murdered old comrades fpr not bowing deep enough. It was the establishment of a cult of personality, in which noone was to critize the dear Leader. Which is eerily similar to Maos switch from “Please critize me and the party, for this is the only way of improving” to “Everyone who ever wrote something bad about the Party, the State or me is a despicable wrecker and needs to be dispatched” within one year.
I believe, that Millions of Non-Russian and Non-Georgians within the Sovietunion would have lived a better life, if the despotism within the Soviet Power Clique had been curbed. Stalins “30%” bad is more than just the Great Terror. Its the deportations and the ethnic cleansing of the new ruling class.
The Fall of the Soviet Union was a tragedy to the imperial russian core and its subsequent plundering remains one of the greatest failures of the 20th century, i grant you that.
Repression of the previous ruling class was absolutely necessary, the fact that it went overboard and also targeted comrades is the mistake. If it were possible to have a revolution that made absolutely no mistakes I would sign onto it no question, but I believe that such a thing is idealistic nonsense - and that forswearing all repression of the previous ruling class in order to not accidentally target comrades is far worse, because it takes an essential tool out of the revolutionary’s belt and replaces it with nothing.
There’s a difference between someone-needs-to-coordinate-and-manage-complex-undertakings “authoritarian” and line-the-dissidents-up-against-the-wall “authoritarian”. Tankies are the latter.
We have class war waged against us by the bourgeoisie, and thousands of people are casualties of that war every single day. Expecting to turn the tide against them without getting our hands dirty in turn is useless idealism.
On one hand I’d like it if the Democrats put up someone more certain to beat Trump. On the other Joe has shown he supports labor and things are moving in the right direction in that regard. I’d hate it if he we get a corpo Democrat that halts this progress.
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