JetBrains ran aground of this years ago when they introduced a subscription model for their (excellent) software. People (rightly) lost their fricking minds when they heard that if they cancelled their subscription, they’d lose the ability to continue using the software they’d already paid for.
So JetBrains went back and reworked their system so that a cancelled subscription would continue to have the rights to install all the software that existed up to the day of cancellation. Effectively meaning that if v3 came out the day before you cancelled, you can still install and use v3 10 years later.
JetBrains comes to mind as one of the fairest subscription services I know. It also get cheaper the longer you’re subscribed, incentivizing you to to stay subscribed. It’s both smart and user friendly.
I do use JetBrains software. If subscriptions all agreed that when you cancel the subscription you can continue to use the latest version before you cancelled, I’d be prepared to consider them. Any software ought to be able to do this except software that uses significant server resources. I’d even consider rent-to-own where you get to keep the software after a certain number of payments. (Splice offers some music software like this.)
Roland have a ton of good software synthesizers but I will never subscribe to them because the moment you stop they take the whole lot away. Even their “lifetime license” requires an active Roland account and the software disappears if you ever close the account or they change their minds. Similarly I haven’t used any Adobe software since they went subscription only.
Yeah that was basically the sentiment of the developer community when JetBrains announced the change. Thankfully they heeded the screaming and fixed their model. I’ve been using JetBrains tools for around 10 years now and they continue to impress. I can’t recommend them enough.
If you want a worse example than Roland, let me tell you about my solitary experience with IK Multimedia. I bought a secondhand hardware synth of theirs off marketplace. Get it home and try to download the software tool to control and update it. It tells me to set up an account, and then lets me download it, awesome. Plug it in and fire up the software, and it tells me I’m not licensed. Wait, what? Search through their support site and it turns out that to transfer the “license” for this piece of hardware you have to pay them $49. Sunk cost fallacy got the better of me at this point and I sent an email through to support asking if I could pay the transfer fee. Nope, only the original owner can transfer the license. I was so immediately turned off it that it sat around as a paperweight for a few months. Ended up selling it to a pawn shop.
Meanwhile, Arturia are the exact opposite. When you buy a digital license of the Arturia V Collection, you own that license. Which includes being able to sell it to someone else, and transfer it to their account for free. I bought a secondhand MIDI controller of theirs, which had some bonus licenses for their software originally included. They transferred the license to me with just a picture of the serial number label. But I could still download and use the software for setting up macros and updating it without doing that.
I hope Arturia don’t change. They are one of the most reasonable companies out there when it comes to licensing and pricing.
Licenses for hardware are a concerning trend, because it’s unnecessary, and because the terms are never made clear before purchase. I suspect it’s mainly there to sabotage the second hand market.
Yeah, I hope they don’t change either. I wouldn’t have been surprised, or particularly disappointed, if they said they wouldn’t transfer the bonus licenses. These weren’t needed to use the device at all. The license was originally for Analog Lab 3, this was a Minilab Mk1, but they’d given free upgrades so the license I got was for Analog Lab V. Having that license meant getting a cheaper upgrade to the V Collection 8. I got a 50% off upgrade to 9 as well, and I just checked now that X is out and they’re offering me the same deal again until late January.
They did deactivate my license for 8 because I’d used it to upgrade to 9, but I think that’s pretty reasonable. You can also absolutely choose to pay the full price and keep the previous version. You can still sell and transfer it too though, and their system will happily let the new owner re-download it. They’ll let you activate the license on an offline computer too, and as far as I can tell, it’s indefinite. You could absolutely take advantage of that, but they don’t punish all of their users because there’s a chance a few are bad actors.
Honestly, in my opinion, they are the platinum standard that software companies across the entire industry should strive to be.
Oh I just remembered another thing. You can buy individual V Collection instruments without ever being worse off. The price of it will be discounted off the full collection. Then, after 4-6 instruments, they’ll just upgrade you to the full ~39 for free. I don’t think even when you could still buy the Creative Suite from Adobe, that they would let you upgrade like that.
(Sorry for the lengthy reply. Arturia is just one of the few companies out there that I will legitimately praise.)
Sygic broke trust like that with me . The software is/was excellent and very reasonable, so I bought licences for parts of world and suddenly they made it subscription based app, with ability to keep forever licence for only part of world you bought.
So even though I have fully paid software , i have to pay subscription for the feature of Android Auto and world maps.
It was the list betrayal of trust i have seen. I never used sygic after that at all.
Not quite - you get a perpetual license for the version that was released a year before you cancelled your subscription. And for most languages this is not really practical anyway, as they get relatively frequent updates that require IDE updates, so you will just stay subscribed.
This was a fairly low business risk, high PR value move by JetBrains.
Someone linked them up thread and it doesn’t quite work like that. You need to have been using a version for 12 months before that becomes your “fallback license”. So, if v3 came out the day before, your fallback license would only be v2 if you cancelled.
Oh! Good to know. I guess that’s there to prevent people from reaping 2 years worth of development for a 1 year fee. That still seems reasonable to me.
Disagreed. If it requires a server side element, it incurs an ongoing cost and a subscription can be justified. And to clarify, by “requires”, I’m referring to the functionality, not having it shoveled in. And the price should be realistic.
Some apps do this well, Sleep for Android is an example that comes to mind. Free with ads, ad-free is an inexpensive one time purchase. You can also purchase additional plugin apps that add functionality that isn’t required or even useful for most people. And finally, they have a cloud plugin app to let you backup your data, you can pay for their cloud subscription which is $2.99 a year, but you can also just use other cloud for storage like Google drive.
Then the dev needs to build out a range of protocols and API’s to enable users to “supply their own server”, which can bring a range of additional headaches, like having to provide support for external dependencies outside their control, etc.
What if the users “server” fails? Should the dev waste hours of their life assisting a user with a highly specific Google Drive issue when they spent $5, 3 years ago?
But the developer doesn’t need to provide support if you opt to use your own data storage and the storage itself fails. Google would be the one to contact if Google drive has an issue.
Well yes, but that’s not how your average user thinks and acts. They will either a) contact you as the developer of the app that doesn’t seem to work and when your say it’s not your fault give you bad reviews or b) directly give you bad reviews.
You clearly haven’t dealt with the “average user”. Get ready for a boatload of idiots who followed some crappy tutorial for “how to get it for free” making a problem for support or review bombing the app when they lose all their data through incompetence.
The average user doesn’t work like that, also an average user does not always think he is average. There are many people thinking they are advanced, because they know where settings in Windows or Android are located. You will probably get bad reviews then emails, because quote “your app doesn’t work”. This comment is based on real experiences with Google Play Store and its users, thinking they know what they do.
I think people don’t understand your question, or think it might be sarcastic. So to answer your question: server storage and computation power costs money. Depending on how your app’s backend works, this can be cheap or very, very expensive, paid monthly or yearly. It also needs to scale with the number of your clients actively using the backend. Some of us just sit on the costs to give its users a free and ad-less experience with more functions without taking any money (by the thought “I pay for this server anyways, so why not share it”). But it costs me more, if I have more active users and I have to actively compensate this.
But there are also some greedy bastards, taking much more thinking to get rich with a single app (actually met one of this devs)
Yeah. Not talking about providing a service, that’s a different animal (my e-mail provider does it as a hobby on donations). But if you have control over the software and you make it open source anyway, why not make it selfhostable instead? An app bound to a service out of the users control is something with a short live…
Right, i was in a os thread before, my bad. But even then, why have the software run on your server if you can have it in the app? Only reason i see is to bind customers, which you do when you have a business model/income anyway.
For one, things like cloud storage are obviously not particularly viable to have the customer host themselves, on premise.
Secondly, some things can be extremely intensive to process, and thus performed on specialized, high end hardware rather than over hours on whatever shit phone the customer is using
It’s very important, if you need, to take a short rest to recover some HP at the least or a long rest if you need your party at full fighting potential.
Well, it clearly seems that this experiment is failing, but not for any reason I was expecting…
Fediverser is first and foremost a set of tools to help people migrate away from Reddit. I was not expecting so many “if I want to see Reddit stuff, I just go to Reddit”. I thought that the people that came to Lemmy during the protests were willing to put their words into actions and leave Reddit, or maybe do what I am doing and only using it to spread awareness of the alternatives. I thought that it was understood that the problem with Reddit was on management, not with Reddit users. I thought that people liked the content from their niche subs, and I thought that people were willing to help others to move to a newer alternative, free of Big Tech and centralized corporate control. It doesn’t seem to be the case. For all the talk about community and all the people crying against spez, it seems that Slacktivism is still the dominant ideology of social networks.
Fediverser is very specific about what subreddits are being mirrored and into what communities the content is going to. To talk about “spam” honestly makes very little sense to me, until I realized that there are so many people browsing via “all”. I can not understand how someone in their right mind would be looking at any content firehose without filtering, but it seems like that this is the reality for many.
People were feeling “tricked” into responding. That’s on me. My work on two-way communication is going a bit slower than I was hoping for and I thought that marking accounts as bots was enough, but clearly the UX is failing to make this noticeable.
With all that said, I will retire the bots until I deliver on my promise to make two-way communication work and/or I have better tools at fediverser.network to help community promotion.
I can not understand how someone in their right mind would be looking at any content firehose without filtering, but it seems like that this is the reality for many.
I typically browse subscribed until I’m seeing posts I’ve already viewed. I occasionally switch to all to see if I will find any new content/ communities to subscribe to. How do you typically do it?
I’m never on here during work. Even if I was, that point is pretty unhelpful. I think it’s a normal thing for people to want an unlimited supply of content, as that’s what we’ve gotten used to and that’s what these websites are for. What’s it to you, to dictate how I want to use my time? Whether this behavior is a good or bad thing is another argument. I think the limited content supply here is a concession that most people have accepted on Lemmy, but I also think that it’s possible that it wouldn’t have to be a concession as the platforms grow and get better.
Sorry, I meant it as a joke. Clearly it didn’t land.
To give you a serious answer, I think that the point is in understanding that “All” will always be an unfiltered firehose. If the issue is that you are running out of content in the communities you subscribe and that represent your interest, then we need to find ways to increase the amount of content here instead of chasing another fix by going to “All”.
In a way, this is exactly something that the mirrored content from fediverser could also help, and also another reason that I don’t understand why people complain about “spam”. The content from alien.top mirrored is ending up at a community that you subscribe, it is far more likely for that content to be interesting to you than a random post from a community that you do not subscribe.
Re: “finding out new communities to follow”: that’s also part of the Fediverser Project. The idea is to build a crowdsourced map of Lemmy communities to be recommended as the alternative to any given subreddit.
Just don’t, repost bots add nothing of value to the platform in my experience. We don’t want this place to be Reddit 2.0, we want it to be it’s own thing.
We don’t want this place to be Reddit 2.0, we want it to be it’s own thing.
One of the things that I truly despise is the use of the “Royal We”. It’s a cheap rhetorical trick to make it sound like your opinion and your preference is an universal truth. It’s quite simple to disprove that what you want is not necessarily what everyone else wants.
For example:
repost bots add nothing of value to the platform in my experience.
Thanks to mirrors, I could simply get rid of all the 40+ subreddits that I used to subscribe to lurk around. E.g, I don’t to participate in discussions on /r/soccer, but I do like to follow some of the discussions and I do like having the posts to see game highlights, match threads, etc.
Mirrors allow us to have content protected and out of Reddit’s control. If Reddit decides to tighten up their grip on the API even more, the mirrored content will be already safe from their hands.
I have never used Reddit so I don’t know what experience it is you want, but couldn’t you achieve the same thing in a better way by browsing on Teddit?
It isn’t a client, it’s a frontend. You’re not registered and you’re not contributing to traffic. If you really want to leave leave reddit so much, it seems illogical to bring it here.
The mirror is just one part of the fediverser project. The other is in getting people to migrate away from reddit by joining the corresponding communities.
And it so happens that a lot of the people that want to migrate away from Reddit end up returning because they don’t find the content here from their niche communities. This is the part that the mirror attempts to solve.
I think the thought is good, but overall I believe in growing the Fediverse as an independent community. People will also not see the appeal if it seems like we rely on other platforms. What I do think we can do to address the content issue is to improve integration with other Fediverse platforms such as Mastodon, since they are already compatible and have the necessary userbase.
Mirrors allow us to have content protected and out of Reddit’s control. If Reddit decides to tighten up their grip on the API even more, the mirrored content will be already safe from their hands.
I think you are confusing people here by saying mirror. They think about it as another frontend.
I suggest to use Matrix terms. Here what you have would be one-way bridging
One-way bridging is rare, but can be used to represent a bridge that is bridging from the remote system into matrix. This is common when the remote system does not permit message posting, or is simply not capable of handling posting outside their system. The users bridged from the remote system often appear as virtual users in matrix, as is the case with matrix-appservice-instagram.
The people complaining can’t even understand the concept of curating their own feed, do you think they will understand if we start talking about bridges and double-puppets?
Honestly those don’t bother me so much as the one that call it “spam bots”. I’ve spent so much time making sure that the bots only post the content that is relevant to a specific community, and I am going out of my way to make sure that no post is going to a community that does not approve of the bots, but somehow what I am doing is as bad as the script kiddie that was posting goatse-style pictures everywhere this weekend.
I understand that your bots work for your use case, but it actively harms mine, and I’d happily call it spam.
I call it spam not because the content being mirrored is low quality, but because there is little to no community interaction on the posts. I’d I wanted to just read news, I’d just go to my RSS reader. The only reason I use Lemmy is because I want to see others’ opinions on the posts.
By the way, this isn’t me saying that it would be better if it had bidirectional bridging. If that was implemented, Lemmy would just be the second class way of interacting with Reddit content. I don’t want that.
Also, I use the All feed for discovering content, not because I don’t know about 3rd party community search tools, but because I don’t know what communities I like. The All feed allows me to find new communities that interest me, and I wouldn’t be able to find those communities just with those search tools.
there is little to no community interaction on the posts
You know what has even less activity and interaction? All the communities that were set up during the protests, but then were left completely neglected.
I accept the criticism that people were feeling flooded by the mirrored content, this is why I turned them off for now. But I fail to see how it’s worse for the niche communities that having some content is worse than having no content available, just because people can not (yet) talk (easily) with the original poster.
Lemmy would just be the second class way of interacting with Reddit content
First, it’s not “Reddit content”. It’s about the content from the communities. Second, the idea is to have tools that help them migrate away from there. The two-way interaction is an intermediate step to make it easy for people there to know they won’t be missing out by leaving their favorite subreddits and coming here.
You know what has even less activity and interaction? All the communities that were set up during the protests, but then were left completely neglected.
Yes, but they’re fine in my opinion as they don’t clutter up my All feed. I personally wish there were active Kerbal Space Program and Rain World communities, but they don’t exist because there aren’t sufficient members. It’s just not sustainable currently, and mirrored posts would not fix it.
I fail to see how it’s worse for the niche communities that having some content is worse than having no content available, just because people can not (yet) talk (easily) with the original poster.
My reason for saying that this is worse is not because I can’t talk with the original poster. it’s very hard for me to word this in the exact way I want to, but it’s a combination of the original poster not consenting to / willfully posting the content on Lemmy making it feel intrusive, and me appreciating the human effort behind the post, not the post itself. It’s the same reason I don’t talk to LLMs like ChatGPT to pass time. I just don’t appreciate it for some reason.
First, it’s not “Reddit content”. It’s about the content from the communities.
Sure, the content is not tied to Reddit that much, but they might for example have references to other subreddits, their tags, and Reddit users. Because content on Reddit is made to be on Reddit, unless Lemmy is made exactly to mimic Reddit (which I don’t want btw), you are always going to have a worse experience browsing Reddit content on Lemmy, than browsing Reddit content on Reddit. This isn’t just a problem with Lemmy-Reddit bridging btw, it’s also a problem with all the Matrix bridges and stuff like that.
Second, the idea is to have tools that help them migrate away from there.
That might be useful for some people, but it’s not for me. The communities I want that aren’t on Lemmy are extremely niche. No one is going to bridge all the content on Reddit to Lemmy (and I don’t want this btw) because of the immense computational, storage, and bandwidth requirements, and so everyone’s small niche communities won’t be bridged. Personally, I found these mirroring bots to be a nuisance in my early days on Lemmy, and slightly reminisce for when they weren’t a thing yet. So in my opinion, these bots hurt the migration experience, and Lemmy would be better without it
If this bridging was an opt-in system, I’d be fine with it. But because it’s currently an opt-out system, and an opt-out system where you have to block hundreds of accounts, I really don’t like it. Perhaps a system to make these opt-in, like a menu in the settings to select which bridges you want enabled could be added to Lemmy, and I’d be fine with these mirror/bridge bots then. This is sort of like how it works on Matrix, and I like the bridging there. But with the current circumstances on Lemmy, I don’t like the mirror/bridge bots.
Sorry for the wall of text btw, but these are my opinions and I wanted to state them clearly.
The communities I want that aren’t on Lemmy are extremely niche.
And this is exactly the communities that fediverser wants to bring!
Reddit’s moat is not on the popular content, it’s in the long tail. Reddit knows that people on /r/politics or /r/gifs are mostly to pad their numbers, but their real strength is that you can not find people to talk about Kerbal Space Program and Rain World outside of Reddit.
These “extremely niche” communities are the ones that are being held by network effects. These are the communities that I’d like to have on fediverser.network, and these are the communities that I wish we could get coordinated enough to pull away from Reddit.
No one is going to bridge all the content on Reddit to Lemmy (…) because of the immense computational, storage, and bandwidth requirements,
alien.top was mirroring about 150 subreddits for two months, most of them of the niche type. The database of “1M comments” is taking less than 10GB of disk space. Looking at the last backup, the whole database uncompressed is 18GB. It’s running on commodity hardware. Even with the mirrors making copies of the images to object storage, my object storage bill this month was a whooping $0.66.
If we focus on the long tail, it is not that expensive. And by the time that we actually start getting bigger number of users, I’m sure that we can come up with different strategies to deal with the data. We can create a common pool of resources for shared storage, we can divide the instances in “topic-based” and “user-home” (like I’ve been doing with communick.news and the ones on !communick_news_network), etc.
The database of “1M comments” is taking less than 10GB of disk space. Looking at the last backup, the whole database uncompressed is 18GB. It’s running on commodity hardware. Even with the mirrors making copies of the images to object storage, my object storage bill this month was a whooping $0.66.
I guess if you just link the images from Reddit it’s not that computationally intensive. I very much doubt that Reddit is going to let this slide if Lemmy ever gets that big though.
Why shouldn’t at least try to do it?
Because there are things to lose, and this isn’t a risk-free process. I expanded more on my reasoning in my last paragraph:
If this bridging was an opt-in system, I’d be fine with it. But because it’s currently an opt-out system, and an opt-out system where you have to block hundreds of accounts, I really don’t like it. Perhaps a system to make these opt-in, like a menu in the settings to select which bridges you want enabled could be added to Lemmy, and I’d be fine with these mirror/bridge bots then. This is sort of like how it works on Matrix, and I like the bridging there. But with the current circumstances on Lemmy, I don’t like the mirror/bridge bots.
I guess if you just link the images from Reddit it’s not that computationally intensive
The images are actually copied to the mirrored server.
Perhaps a system to make these opt-in, like a menu in the settings to select which bridges you want enabled could be added to Lemmy,
It’s not that simple to do that per user. You’d need:
An actual Reddit client per user
A Lemmy client with OAuth support so that the bridges don’t need to hold the user’s password.
An “official” map of reddit-to-lemmy communities, so that we know where to point all those bridges for posts. I’m working on such map, but I really don’t want to call it official unless it gets significant community support.
Is the opt-out solution aggressive? Yes, no doubt. But I thought that this “aggression” was pointed to Reddit and therefore justifiable. The whole reason that this approach forces its hand to be able to get the data is because Reddit API changes was a clear sign that they want to treat the data from the users as their own. The protests were not effective against this, and showed to Reddit that they can win any conflict against dissenting mods. If Reddit tracked back on their policies and showed to be a good steward of one of the most vast amount of user data, I wouldn’t be putting so much effort in this project.
If you can think of any other approach to make this work and is aligned with the clear goal of the project (make it easy for people to migrate away from Reddit, in a way that those that come here can already find their niche communities) I’m all for trying it.
The images are actually copied to the mirrored server.
That’s really interesting, but why do you do that? Surely having the clients fetch the data from Reddit’s servers themselves would be easier?
But I thought that this “aggression” was pointed to Reddit and therefore justifiable.
I hate Reddit as a platform too, but I very much disagree with this philosophically. I don’t break the rules against the enemy because then the enemy would be allowed to break the rules against me. If we want to grow as a platform, we have to stay civilized. The one that fails to do that dies.
If you can think of any other approach to make this work and is aligned with the clear goal of the project (make it easy for people to migrate away from Reddit, in a way that those that come here can already find their niche communities) I’m all for trying it.
I think you misunderstood my idea about opt-out bridges. I meant that there should be a toggle for Lemmy users on Lemmy which mirrored/bridged content should be shown to them. These should be off by default, but easily changeable.
Surely having the clients fetch the data from Reddit’s servers themselves would be easier?
Easier? Yes. Reasonable? Not at all. Reddit wants to control all the data, the whole API fiasco started because they started to abuse their power, do you think they can trusted of stewards of social media data?
I don’t break the rules against the enemy because then the enemy would be allowed to break the rules against me.
This is a fight, not a game. There are no rules. Do you think they care about rules when they started forcing moderators out of the protesting subs? Or lying about what Christian was asking during pricing negotiations? Or when they get mods working for them to do their bidding?
Let’s not be naive. They will leverage anything they have to get the upper hand. We are not going to win anything by pretending there is a higher moral ground to stand on.
We are not going to win anything by pretending there is a higher moral ground to stand on.
The moral high ground is the ONLY thing we have. Lemmy as a platform exists to be a non-evil counterpart to Reddit. It would have no purpose to exist were it not for our better ethics.
It is the ethos of decentralized platforms (which can not by its very nature be controlled by any single entity) that makes them superior, not the individuals on it.
Also, the only way to argue that what I am doing is “evil” is by accepting their premise that they own the data and that mirrors are “stealing” from them.
Seems odd to claim that people don’t understand the concept of using Subscribed to filter their feed, when they’ve made a conscious choice to change from the default to All. It seems you don’t understand the concept of browsing “All” or why people would choose that.
conscious choice to change from the default to All.
First, the default listing is set by the instance administrator so we can’t be sure of what is the default in the first place.
Second, one of the most common criticisms carried against open source developers is the tendency to provide too many configuration choices to end-users instead of streamlining the interface, which leads to creation of footguns.
Making it so easy to browse by all is one such footgun.
These “lemmy community syncing” tools is also a footgun. The people running those scripts are basically forcing all content from all communities to be copied across the instances. (curiously, if people were not running these scripts, the likelihood of them getting “hit” by alien.top would be quite small).
That’s why mentioned federatied network bridges store all bridged messages on instance with all the metadata. This is same: bridged posts and comments are stored with metadata. So even if reddit will nuke bridge, already bridged posts will stay.
This also reduces switching cost from reddit to lemmy and turns lemmy into “continue conversation here” button. And according to guy who defined enshittification, low switching cost is how social networks gather TONS of people.
I’m not sure what you are implying. I was just saying that alien.top is just like bridge in matrix, why it is better to store data on instance instead of fetching it every time like frontend does and how it helps Lemmy get users.
It doesn’t seem like you understood why people are upset though. Currently the only way to discover new communities and widen your network is by browsing All. Dare I say most Lemmy users do this. Making repost bots actively harms “real” post discoverability and makes browsing content difficult. Not to mention most reposted content is very superficial, and most of these text postd have zero value when there’s no interaction.
I was not expecting so many “if I want to see Reddit stuff, I just go to Reddit”.
No, we’re saying if you want to see Reddit content you should host an alternate frontend like teddit.net or go to a dedicated place to view that content. Hosting it on Lemmy makes little sense because…
You are stressing out every Lemmy instance by making so many posts and comments a minute
There’s no way to opt-in, so a lot of these posts are making its way to people’s feeds without consent and people aren’t interested in seeing it, which is why most people are upset
It’s actively making the new user experience worse because it feels like there’s too much botspam and someone who’s brand new won’t understand what’s going on.
If there was some way to opt in it would be very cool and a great project, but the way it works now does more harm than good
So far, the reasons that people claim to be upset has more to do with their own ignorance of the current state of affairs than something harmful being done by fediverser or alien.top.
And I don’t mean ignorance as a pejorative. I mean it that I have failed to communicate and educate people about the strategy and plan for fediverser.
To illustrate the point:
Currently the only way to discover new communities and widen your network is by browsing All.
Hi there! Looks like you linked to a Lemmy community using a URL instead of its name, which doesn’t work well for people on different instances. Try fixing it like this: !newcommunities
That’s not true. There is browse.feddit.de and fediverser.project. There are communities about new communities. You can browse an user profile to see what communities they subscribe to. All of these are better methods to find new content than browsing “all”.
Until these are built into the UI, how is a user supposed to find them when they just want to start using Lemmy? They don’t search for such sites, they browse all. The reason sites like reddit work is because they cater to the non-technical crowd.
You are thinking like a developer and not like someone worried about the user experience, this is not a dig but a key part of the problem. The root cause of users not coming to Lemmy in the thousands is the UX. Fix it and normies can use it and post content themselves.
Currently the only way to discover new communities and widen your network is by browsing All.
*discover already discovered communities. This is how fediverse works. Server doesn’t know about community unless someone on server interacted with it.
I just want to chime in that I agree with you. The number of people who are browsing “all” on a large server like Lemmy.world and then complaining about content they don’t want to see is way too high.
You don’t want to see it, don’t browse “all” or accept that someone does want to see that content.
If you think it’s the “will of the people” petition your server admin to block it. Or move to a server where it’s blocked.
You don’t need to shit on this guy because you don’t like their project. It’s easily avoidable.
Agreed. Lemmy is different from Reddit in that there are not enough users to have a self-sustaining community in every niche, and therefore we must all help preventing them all from collapsing and everything just becoming memes and shitposts.
The irony of it all is that everyone loved to complain about “The Algorithm”, but now that the ability of curating the feed is entirely in their hands, they are “ooh, things I don’t like in my timeline, make it stahp!”
Dude, I know I’m like a week late to the party, but to defend your project by saying that everyone is just browsing incorrectly is not a very good look.
Not everyone, but it seems like a substantial part of them. Anyway, I am saying it is only wrong in the scenario where Lemmy has a more sizeable userbase.
Still, not a justification to keep the mirrors. That’s why I disabled most of them.
I get that you saw a perceived problem and you’re trying to fix it. I get that what you’ve built is cool on a technical level and it probably feels really terrible to have people be so negative about it. So first of all, none of this is personal at all. But I feel this comment illustrates exactly where the problem lies.
You want to “help people migrate away from Reddit”. But I’m not sure what makes you think people need “help” at all, I mean if someone wants to stop using a platform they can just stop using the platform. I was a heavy Reddit user and was in plenty of tiny niche subreddits, but so what? I wanted to leave so I left.
So maybe the real problem is that so many people don’t want to leave Reddit, and that disappoints you, and you want to try and convince them that they do? This I could definitely understand, but trying to convince someone you know what they want better than they do themselves is not generally a great tactic.
Most people will just stick with whatever the “best” platform is in terms of showing them content they want to see, and are slow to move to the next thing once the one they’re on starts sucking. So if you really want to put your dev skills to use it would make more sense to get stuck in with Lemmy itself and help increase the pace of improvements. A lot of us are happy here, but a lot of people also bounced off due to the jank. And the more we can reduce that bounce rate, the more we can keep people around, the more we’re in a position to capitalise whenever the next big wave of newbies hits.
Thank you for the effort to understand my perspective. It’s much appreciated.
You are definitely right in a lot of your assessment. I am disappointed at the sheer amount of people who claimed to want to leave Reddit but never took any action about it. I am disappointed at mods who were all protesting about the changes but when push comes to shove, the large majority of them simply were afraid of giving up and losing their “power”. I absolutely agree that any approach that ends up patronizing users and telling them how awful their choices are will cause them to be more resistant to change and aligned with the status quo.
The one part that I strongly disagree is the notion that “if someone wants to stop using a platform they can just stop using the platform”: Social media (as we know it, with centralized control by a handful of corporations) is made to be as addictive as the most powerful drugs, and peer pressure is one of the strong behavior-regulating forces.
We can not wait until “things start to suck”, because by then people will more likely than not just move on to the next crappy corporate-controlled media. What I believe is that we need a coordinated effort and that we need to act as an intolerant minority to fight against it. And I know that I am not getting everything right off the bat, but I hope that at least I can gather enough support to make this a credible threat to the status quo.
I don’t like your bots at all because I, like others, browse all. Lemmy is too small and inactive to stick to little groups. They also filled my feed with a disproportionate amount of stuff I don’t care about, like selfhosted.
The idea is genuinely interesting and the execution, especially the bridge to claim ownership of the bot account, is legitimately really cool. But until it’s not spammy— which may be never at the rate Lemmy is expanding, or lack of expansion— it’s going to meet significant resistance.
It’s weird because I really agree with you. Lowering the barrier to entry for leaving Reddit and porting over its discussions is great. People say they don’t want Reddit content, but honestly I doubt that. Hell, even having copies of the niche Reddit content would help fill out the fediverse’s lack of content. Sadly I don’t see this working at all without two way communication (which you would probably need proxies for). I’d be pretty surprised if you ever brought it back.
I particularly agree on the moral front. I disagree with Reddit the company and don’t care for the state of the internet. But I can’t see a barrier of entry low enough for people to actually stand up for themselves, so while I respect the effort and willingness to do something about your values, my faith in the remaining Reddit users is low enough that I really can’t see a universe where this works.
The one part that I strongly disagree is the notion that “if someone wants to stop using a platform they can just stop using the platform”: Social media (as we know it, with centralized control by a handful of corporations) is made to be as addictive as the most powerful drugs, and peer pressure is one of the strong behavior-regulating forces.
The addictiveness and the inertia factor are the two main ways to hold your user base to your product, very true.
Don’t give up on what you’re doing, keep working at it, refining. The vocal indigenous minority of any place don’t handle change well, and tend to rescue defeat out of the jaws of victory.
I worry too – if this gets any significant uptake, what’s stopping Reddit from shutting off the spigot? Given their reasons for turning the screws on API and other policy changes, they may not take kindly to having “their” content re-posted elsewhere, let alone to a system designed specifically to escape reddit.
If this gets significant uptake, it will mean that the Fediverse has enough people to the point that the mirrors are not needed and network effects will be large enough to get other people interested/invested in Lemmy to the point where they will sign up even if takes some effort.
I follow a sub that’s all reposts from reddit. Occasionally I think about replying to something, but then I just go, “What’s the point? OP isn’t here.” I don’t recall ever seeing anyone else respond to any of the crossposts, either. The community is c/[email protected] if anyone is curious, which is a pretty niche topic to start with.
I’m not convinced it’s adding anything to the Lemmy experience, but at least those are clearly marked as crossposts and are all posted by one account, so it’s easy enough to ignore if I wanted.
On the “all” thing - remember that reddit has a mode, which is the default, that’s between Lemmy’s “truly, everything all” and “subscribed”. In this mode, you’d get popular posts on subs that had opted in to allowing them to hit that page (or didn’t opt out, I don’t remember).
/r/hockey is a good example - their posts usually generally stayed in the sub, but their Super Bowl post (and occasionally others) would usually hit reddit’s front page and bring in a ton of people who weren’t subbed to /r/hockey.
This was a good feature of reddit, I hope Lemmy eventually gains something similar.
It’s possible I misunderstood your last goal, but if you’re planning to have Lemmy comments posted back to reddit, I suspect that wouldn’t go over well with reddit’s admins after they figure it out.
Please don’t ever feel discouraged by contributing content to the network, if you think the contribution is positive.
There are other people there. Just check the number of subscribers to get an idea of at least how many people could be reached by your post.
Your comment there can act as a catalyst for other Lemmy users to join in and participate.
Having content on Lemmy that is not available on Reddit creates a positive asymmetry in our favor, and it creates an incentive for people on Reddit to migrate here.
reddit has a mode, which is the default, that’s between Lemmy’s “truly, everything all” and “subscribed”. (…) I hope Lemmy eventually gains something similar.
I agree, and it doesn’t even need to be on Lemmy backend. I firmly believe that everything related to content filtering and even algorithmic choices should be part of the client, not the server.
We can have an (mobile/web) app that takes all of the firehose and does the filtering in the client.
I can’t believe two people downvoted your comment.
You’re right about contributing.
As for the filtering, I’m not sure how I feel about that - I use the web interface on my computer and an app on my phone and tablet. I’d prefer them to have similar results. But I see the point you’re making; it could be curated by user instead of a massive algorithm for everyone.
Thanks for the support, but I honestly stopped caring about downvotes. I think there is a vocal minority that is already set on not liking what I am doing, so they are going to vote me down even if I post a cure for cancer.
Fucking hell you are tone deaf. Your idea is fine. Your implementation sucks ass.
Did I see in another post where you told people to stop thinking of bots as bots and imagine they are real users because they might be one day, and then redefine what a bot was? Just stop.
People are telling you time and time again what is pissing them off, and then you just try and repackage and resell what you are doing. Just stop.
Put in big bold letters at the top of the posts that “THIS IS A THREAD THAT IS COPIED FROM REDDIT TO HELP FACILITATE USER TRANSITION TO LEMMMY.”
Sure, you are driving people to participate in a thread, but it’s pointless and counter productive. It’s pissing people off and you are poo-poo’ing it like they don’t understand your grand plans.
Why hard? Client needs to fetch all metadata needed for sorting for every post created during entire lemmy’s existance on every discovered lemmy instances, which depending on algo you are using, might include comments metadata. To aid client-side sorting you would need server-side filtering, which will limit data avaliable to sorting algo. For example client-side trending algo would not show old trending post because it was filtered out.
So client-side sorting is basically running stripped version of instance without file hosting.
Why would you need all data to build the frontpage? Why not just make a sliding window with the content from the last 24/48h?
Exactly what I’m saying. To not be super resource-intensive, client-side sorting needs to be incomplete. As I said, if there is hypothetical post from 49 hours ago with 10k upvotes, you will not see it, but you will see one from 48 hours ago with 1k upvotes.
Even if that were true, how is that different, e.g, from any modern desktop email client?
Not much I guess(sounds like Thunderbird). But what about mobile?
As I said, if there is hypothetical post from 49 hours ago with 10k upvotes, you will not see it, but you will see one from 48 hours ago with 1k upvotes.
Not necessarily true. You can build an index and keep a cache of the N posts by each sorting method. Your data store will grow linearly with the number of sorting criteria you will have, which should be small.
But what about mobile?
We are talking about an amount of data that a sqlite database process in a breeze. My K-9 email client can handle all my 20 years of gmail…
Bicycles is a really nice sub though, i like the vibe, was exclusively posting there about my trips too. On reddit i never subscribed to cycling subs other than touring and bikepacking, since that really is what i’m most interested in, in cycling. So i was kinda hyped to see some traffic in the touring c and kinda switched, even though i’m unsure if it even makes sense to split the cycling subs yet, Bicycles is quite low traffic too. But i somehow ended up with mod status in the touring sub, so i feel partly responsible for it.
No, I didn’t, thanks for the tip. Subbed! I might drop the other one now.
I do miss /r/bicyclingcirclejerk. I loved the absurdly fake bragging and having fun with the stereotypes. Then one day we realized quite a few of us actually ride Cannondales, and that made it even funnier.
Yeah, sometimes it got a little nasty about other people on reddit, which I was never a fan of. It was supposed to be in good fun, but sometimes people got carried away OR people would start posting every single question that was asked. (For example, I can poke fun at the people who just started riding a bike in their 20s and are now wondering about getting into a professional racing career, but sometimes people would repost what I thought were completely valid questions - no one knows everything, especially when they’re new to something. Fortunately those latter posts rarely got many upvotes or comments.)
Overall though it was generally a lot of fun. And honestly they were probably the most knowledgeable, helpful group if you had a detailed cycling question.
I thought that the people that came to Lemmy during the protests were willing to put their words into actions and leave Reddit,
I did
I didn’t mind some of your bots as I theory maybe one of the communities would be useful. But none of the ones I’d have wanted seem to appear in my feed.
Honestly mate, you’re the worst part of the fediverse.
Anyone over 16 can see that you’re actively harming the growth of lemmy communities, but you don’t want to hear that because you’ve found an audience to inflict your help on.
I’m sure I’ve had this same argument with you and / or others of your ilk in the past, ad nauseam. The only solution is to support instances that defederate from you degenerates.
Wow. Didn’t expect 5 users to actually downvote. If people who did it also claim that they came here to leave reddit and belive in fediverse, but hate Matrix - mainstream fediverse instant messaging protocol and one of default lemmy profile fields, I would like to read how they came up with such bizzare and self-contradictory combination of ideas.
Ooooh. This is exactly what I want, and I want to help you make things better!
I’d like to brainstorm ways of making it opt-in, and making it discoverable without being spammy.
What do you use to coordinate code contributors to your project? Do you have a matrix channel?
PS: I don’t think you need to focus that hard on making it two way. What you’ve implemented so far is already useful. There are some porn subreddits I used to go to when I’m horny, and let me tell you that comments are absolutely not necessary!
No matrix channel yet, but you can take a look at github.com/mushroomlabs/fediverser. If you know your way around Docker it should be easy to get started.
I think you’re on the right track. My guess would be that they have a 3% tolerance (uncertainty, idk) with filling so they fill 600 ml but statistically it might be as much as 618. Putting 618 on the packaging lowers the price per liter a little, compared to 600.
This seems backwards from what a manufacturer would want to do. The concern with variances isn’t really having too much but having too little in the bottle. If you aimed to put exactly 600 in the bottle, you will sometimes end up below 600. It would make more sense to label it 600, aim for 618, and be confident that you’ll always fill it to at least the advertised 600.
Exactly. In Europe for example, you see the stylized “e” symbol on packaging very often. It means that a negligible amount are below the advertised volume/weight.
So if the package says 600ml, they might have to set the machine to 610ml to ensure they satisfy this condition.
Maybe they have one machine set up to fill the bottles. In one market they are required to deliver a safety margin of 3%. So they put 618 in a 600 bottle. In the other market there is no such requirement. So they write 618 on the bottle.
If by law they need to never be under the written volume, then writing 618 means they need to put 618 * 1.03 in the bottle to make sure they hit the 618ml written on the bottle.
In your example, they would write 600ml on the bottle and fill it with 618 ml to account for the machine tolerance.
The idea of something being “not good enough for Lemmy” kinda amuses me a little bit. I mean, I get we’re trying to do some decent stuff around here, but look around. This place is still pretty roughshod.
Nothing is good enough for Lemmy. Anything you post will inevitably be downvoted. Because users here care more about making sure the world knows they don’t personally like something than about encouraging original content.
God haha that is bad. I do not know why people are like this, but for me personally all my posts across two accounts are at above 95% ratio, so not every post is thoroughly downvoted.
The one type of post that always seems to get downvoted is any low-level question about any particular field, are beginners just not supposed to have questions?
If a communist isn’t hated by the capitalist establishment, he isn’t a real communist. (I do not imply that being hated by the establishment alone qualifies you to be a communist)
Nah, you’re wannabes who will never hold enough capital to count, which is why we slag you when you dig in your heels in the first place. There’s nothing more simultaneously sad or funny than ‘temporarily embarrassed’ capitalists with no capital; especially when you haven’t even bothered scrubbing the Oxford polish off your lips before fixing them to talk to us. You are footsoldiers of chauvinist racism, colonial genocide, and climate apocalypse, and you will be the death of all of us.
With all that in mind, what makes you think you or yours are owed any respectful dialogue?
No, fuck you, no. I never considered this, and I’m not going to, and if I do I’m going to find out where you live and put duplos on your bedroom floor, Legos in your shoes, and glitter in your mail.
I hope I never think about this idea again. Argh I’m sorry for anyone who has to go through with this now.
This is the argument every single election. Every time, for decades, and yet things get continually worse.
I’d argue the belief that voting for an establishment party is any kind of a long-term solution is the biggest threat. By all means do it if it’ll help a little in the short term, but the ship’s still sinking.
While I agree in my dislike for the current Republican Party, the attitude of blindly voting for your team because the other is evil is exactly what my (late) fox-addicted grandfather used to uphold. I loved the man, but I think we ought to do better and do the hard work of researching every candidate and choosing the best, be it democrat, republican, or independent.
Gave you and upvote to get you back off zero and agree with your general sentiment.
But - the elections since Trump took the ROC convention have all been different - we must get rid of all the R’s we can no matter what at the local, state and national level as soon as possible now that the have proven to be an existential threat to democracy itself.
For the price they are fantastic. Once you dial in a proper EQ it’s hard to beat for 3x the price. This is for non flac hi res stuff like Spotify, podcasts I must say.
Definitely. In hindsight I undersold them, because they’re a great deal and very solid headphones. I’ve been using mine for three years, and very much glad I have them.
The ANC is superb. When I travel on planes they beat my Sony Link Buds S earphones hands down. And they cost me £120. Different use cases I must admit.
Quick story, I used them while on holiday while they were doing building work next door at 5am. Loud skips and building materials. I slept like a baby for 12 hours with them on, a different story. Everyone else was complaining about being woken up.
I’m a wired headphones guy, semi or open back. Sens, Bayer, Focal etc. For the road these Q20 cans are a steal.
I haven’t had this problem, but I have a different use case (mine are three years old, but stay in my office all the time). They don’t strike me as great wear-and-tear headphones, though, for what it’s worth.
Incidentally, I prefer isolating in-ear earbuds without ANC for commuting; I like to be at least somewhat aware of ambient sounds.
I would imagine that active noise cancellation is out for under $50. You’re stuck with passive noise cancelation if you want something with halfway acceptable sound. AKA, something that basically just plugs your ears so you can’t hear anything else.
AFAIK if you buy any computer from within the last 20 years, there’s a good chance you can get a 6.X Kernel running on it. 32-bit support is fading out, though. If you buy a 64-bit computer, you’ll be able (with sufficient RAM and hard disk space) to install any modern distro on it.
I’d say that single core performance and amount of RAM you have are the biggest issues with running anything on old hardware. Apparently, in theory, you could run even modern kernel with just 4MB of RAM (or even less, good luck finding an 32bit system with less than 4MB). I don’t think you could fit any kind of graphical environment on top of that, but for an SSH terminal or something else lightweight it would be enough.
However a modern browser will easily consume couple gigabytes of RAM and even a ‘lightweight’ desktop environment like XFCE will consume couple hundred MB’s without much going on. So it depends heavily on what you consider to be ‘old’.
The computer at garage (which I’m writing this with) is Thinkstation S20 I got for free from the office years ago is from 2011. 12GB of RAM, 4 core Xeon CPU and aftermarket SSD on SATA-bus and this thing can easily do everything I need for it in this use case. Browsing the web on how to fix whatever I’m working with at the garage, listen music from spotify, occasional youtube-video, signal and things lke that. Granted this was on a higher end when it was new, but maybe it gives some perspective on things.
I’m running Arch on a very early 2000s computer. Dual core athlon with two gigabytes of RAM. With KDE desktop on a period correct display. Works great as long as you are not trying to push it hard with modern tasks. Browses the internet just fine and can even watch videos of a size more appropriate for that era. But yeah, you get into 1080p displays and high resolution videos. Or modern bloated websites. It’s definitely going to chug.
Oh, right, the screen resolution is something I didn’t even consider that much. My system has 1600x1200 display and GPU is Quadro FX570. This thing would absolutely struggle anything higher than 1080p, but as all the parts are free (minus the SSD, 128G drives are something like 30€ or less) this thing is easily good enough for what I use it for and it wouldn’t be that big of a stretch to run this thing as a daily driver, just add bigger SSD and maybe a bit more modern GPU with a 2k display and you’d be good to go.
And 1600x1200 isn’t that much anyways, if memory serves I used to have that resolution on a CRT back in the day. At least moving things around is much easier today.
As old as my system, is. Anything much more modern than what’s already in it would be bottled necked by the system bus. It’s PCIe. Not PCI 2 3 or 4 lol. And SATA, early SATA at that. Still has two IDE headers. But I used to use a lot less to run blender on back in the day. I have it pushing a good old 1024 x768 4x3 display.
Then why have I had such a terrible experience with my newer Dell Xps 13 9310 experience? user error or proprietary b.s.? because I have been told that the new Dells are going the more propriety route.
Instead of wind mills, you could have gravity mills. Pump water into a higher-altitude reservoir on low-gravity days, and let it flow down – turning a turbine – on high gravity days. At least electricity would be cheap.
Or if it varies by region, pump water horizontally (or let it flow slightly downward) from a high gravity region to a low one. Then pump the water upwards there, then horizontally again to the high gravity region. Then let it fall down to turn a turbine that runs all the pumps – perpetual motion (ish)!
Predicting tides becomes hard. Everything is going to be really windy all the time, as the atmosphere expands in low-gravity regions and contracts in high gravity ones. This makes tall buildings impractical, as they would also have to be built for some maximum gravity rating on top of the constant gravity storms.
The oceans would be weird, and violent. Hurricanes might get far more powerful than what we deal with, if the right gravity conditions occur.
For any sort of civilization to emerge, gravity would have to change/vary really slowly. I don’t even want to think of orbits. Kerbal Space Program would be like, really hard in that universe.
Oh man I didn’t even think about atmospheric pressure, could giant windbreakers not potentially be constructed to lessen the effect of this wind?
Or maybe in this fantasy world as it has formed originally with these gravity differences there are lots of natural windbreakers, raised areas and lowered areas, mountains etc due to earth getting compacted to different levels
I would imagine the gravity variance within an area would be fairly mild by comparison to the differences between areas - like how you tend to get warmer temperatures near the equator but can still get variances in temp around that
Oceans may become terrifying but it may be easier to travel by air anyway, instead of trying to travel by ocean you could attempt to plot a course through lower gravity areas and avoid the higher ones Could even spawn some badass hardened sea captains that are required to make certain journeys as they are impossible by air
Giant constructions will have a lot of wear and tear under varying gravity. On top of that, high winds and frequent storms are likely to weather geographical features a lot, making them more flat. In a fantasy world, you can just magic things away, so that’s fine :)
I don’t know about you, but I would find constant high winds fairly terrifying for air travel. Perhaps they are high enough to permit wheeled sailboats on land? That would be creative!
Wheeled sailboats would be very cool, for air travel could have an airbender-like group, a bunch of monks who dedicate their lives to studying the way the wind changes who can instinctively navigate it and use it to their advantage
Aircraft could essentially just be a hang glider with various mechanisms for steering and best catching the wind
I think if I were writing this as a book I’d have to conveniently ignore/find a way to explain away the wind problem though as it would turn the world from a kind of whimsical interesting place to a deadly, unforgiving one.
I also quite like the idea of low gravs having low tech man-powered aircraft instead of land vehicles and wild wind would make that rather impossible
I quite like the idea of wild wind over the ocean for those air nomad people but that might be a case of wanting my cake and eating it too
I guess if I were going the magical route there could be a group of wizards in every town or city maintaining some kind of force field to keep the wind out, taking it in shifts. Could be a major terrorist threat if someone were able to take them down
I suppose wheeled boats are just… cars with sails? Sailcars? Wind chariots?
Hm, one thing I didn’t think about was magma, if the variations are not so small. Going to have more volcanic eruptions, as fluids get pressed out of high-gravity regions and into low-gravity ones (creating big mountains that grow and tumble into the high gravity wells like some sort of horizontal convection?). Earthquakes too, as the high gravity regions sink and the low gravity ones rise creating shear force. I bet the planet would be more “lumpy” than your run-of-the-mill oblong spheroid. I wonder what continental drift would be like?
With that much irregular magma flow, I bet the magnetic field would be weird if it could sustain one at all. Maybe as ‘cells’ where the eruptions occur in low gravity regions, then gets pulled into high gravity regions where it compresses, heats due to radioactive decay, melts and is pushed back out into low-gravity regions. So maybe you’d have ‘local north’ for the cell? Or a very weak magnetic field overall (yay radiation)? I don’t really know on this point.
Oh and exceptionally high-precision clocks won’t be useful except locally, because of the effect of gravity on spacetime, but that doesn’t seem so bad. Low precision clocks based on pendulums won’t be useful at all! Spring escapements should be fine though.
Maybe it would be better to live underwater?
Wow all of that, and home ownership still seems more accessible there than here. I bet real estate prices are a bargain!
I can’t imagine living under water would be much fun either, I imagine the bottom of the ocean in high grav would be absolutely unlivable due to the pressure
Also, I’m not entirely sure how it works but divers have to come out of the water really slowly and carefully so they don’t get the bends, imagine that where the water pressure keeps changing
Infact imagine any underwater structure where the pressure continuously changes dramatically
Also also the tides would be going absolutely crazy overhead
All that said that would make it even cooler to have some kind of hermit character, maybe a powerful wizard living under the sea despite all the hazards and difficulties
If the gravity variation was controlled by a super dense material responding to magnetic fields in a weird way then you might have stable-ish conditions at the magnetic poles.
Could lean into the conspiracy theories and say the poles are off limits to regular people and have it as the headquarters for a super elite shadow organisation
www.protondb.com is an excellent resource. Before you commit to Linux, look up your favorite games there to double check that they’ll work.
My personal experience is basically all games work on Linux. To the point I don’t even look games up on protondb before I buy. The exceptions seem to be multiplayer FPS games which use anti-cheat (but I don’t play those kinds of games).
Yes, ProtonDB is full of very helpful information for getting tons of games up and running flawlessly. I always check it before I launch any new non-native Linux games from Steam.
everybody born in the american continent is technically “american” too
The implied context of your question is in English.. In the English-speaking world, there is no American continent. People from North America are North Americans; people from South America are South Americans. People from the United States of America are American. There is no ambiguity. There is also no good term to collectively describe everyone from the Americas but there’s also rarely any need to discuss that.
I consider terms such as “USonian” and whatnot to be highly offensive. Nobody should tell a people what they are allowed to call themselves in their own language just because the same word means something else in another language. It would be like telling French people they’re not allowed to call their arm a bras because it refers to an article of clothing in English. Other languages where America means something else already have their own terms for people from the US. English, however, has no real ambiguity except that caused by those trying to shame Americans for calling themselves Americans.
People from North America are North Americans; people from South America are South Americans. People from the United States of America are American. There is no ambiguity.
Thank you for eloquently responding to the pedantry underlying OP’s question.
This is about language, not geology. Doesn’t really matter how it came to be that way, North and South America are effectively treated as separate continents and very rarely referred to as a whole, and you saying “but actually” doesn’t change that.
You’re right that words can be coined and their usage changed, but you seem to be misinformed about how that happens. You just deciding we’re gonna do it this way now is not gonna cut it, sorry
Telling people what they're allowed to be offended by is usually a bad choice.
Let em call me whatever they want in whatever language they have.
That's not what this is about though, which is precisely the point. In other languages, "America" means something else, and they all have other terms to refer to people from the US. The whole discussion is about what Americans should be called in English.
In the English-speaking world, there is no American continent.
I didn’t know that, thanks.
Nobody should tell a people what they are allowed to call themselves in their own language
Look man, I’m not american and I didn’t ask the question to create some debate about the ethics or whatsoever. I just wanted to know if there was a specific word for that.
Plenty of cultures use the term “English” or some variation thereof to refer to the United Kingdom despite England only being 1/4th of the member states of the UK. I find the whole “Mexicans and Canadians are technically Americans” to reek of manifest destiny.
Just to be clear, I didn't think that you were being offensive. It came across entirely as a good faith question from a foreigner, but it ties into (ironically arrogant) advocacy from some foreigners who call Americans arrogant for using the term American.
No, it’s the entire English-speaking world, which actually makes sense since the practice originated with the British Empire long before American independence.
That and an increase in size for religions that believe in reincarnation, as well as people probably treating animals kinder or maybe even believing they’ve found a dead family member in a pet
More of a natural phenomena, but if they were right about that and others were wrong about heaven/afterlife then some people would trust those religions and distrust the others
Well in theory all of the religious elements are not religious elements. We just haven’t demonstrated them to our satisfaction. (which I suppose is the line between bullshit and not-bullshit right there)
Like, if we forgot how to make particle accelerators And the only talk of quarks and leptons was in religious mythology.
This might depend on what else we know about it. Or don’t know. We know that reincarnation is real, but do we understand the “rules”?
Most reincarnation beliefs include some sort of points system for how you come back. For example, Good people come back better, and bad people become slugs. If it can be confirmed that suicide gets you demoted, there might not be people doing it.
Or, after enough people start rerolling, an official government agency “confirms” it just so they don’t lose their working class.
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