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dubyakay ,

I did it! I did it over the long weekend. Been using Windows since 3.1 (albeit only switched fully from MSDOS when Windows 2000 came out).

I did a test run on my laptop during time away from home/desktop over the summer, using Linux Mint, to see if I can do work and school on an unfamiliar system exclusively. On Mint I never had to open the terminal and everything worked right out of the box. Cinnamon is very similar to Win10 too. Heck, I can’t even remember the installation procedure, it was so hands off and easy.

After two failed attempts of Arch on the same laptop, I’ve managed to install it with help of archinstaller on my main desktop. No idea what I’m doing, but I got it up and running to a state where I can do both work and school.

FUCK Windows and the constant nag it does everywhere. Good riddance.

JigglySackles ,

Lol I misread this as you’d been relying on windows 3.1 and never upgraded but that 11 including recall made you switch to Linux. I need to be more thorough in my reading .

1984 OP ,
@1984@lemmy.today avatar

Good work getting through arch installer, it can be tricky too. I’ve been on arch for like 10 years and still don’t think anything else is better.

fossilesque ,
@fossilesque@mander.xyz avatar

Well done. Mint is the gateway drug, perfect for users like you. Progress and attempts with arch are noble though! Glad it didn’t scare you off.

RoyaltyInTraining ,
@RoyaltyInTraining@lemmy.world avatar

I applaud your bravery with Arch. Have some fun with it and don’t worry if you break stuff. Keep your files backed up and you’re golden! Even if you switch to a different distro later on, a lot of what you learn will translate 1:1.

Zink ,

Mint is great.

I use Linux Mint cinnamon on a daily basis, typically with one or two command line terminals open at all times (one normal and one in a docker container), and with some kind of code always open too. I use 4 monitors as well, which the same machine can’t handle when I boot into windows.

No apologies and no regrets. Being user friendly doesn’t mean it’s limited. It uses Ubuntu and Debian stuff after all, just with the controversial Ubuntu stuff removed.

n3m37h ,

We can’t uninstall our own keylogger, sorry!

arin ,

keylogging isn’t as bad as seeing EVERYTHING including visuals on screen

ZILtoid1991 ,

Well, not without also uninstalling Windows…

StephenTallentyre ,

[ Insert “I see this as an absolute win!” meme here ]

ZILtoid1991 ,

Except I’m a gamedev, and I’ll have to keep around at least one Windows PC. Might be a Win10 one with extended support updates.

StephenTallentyre ,

Oof. Yeah, I don’t use my computer for work, so I’d never even thought of that. That’s annoying.

__init__ ,

This is where we say switch to Linux, right?

1984 OP ,
@1984@lemmy.today avatar

Yeah but I think most of us have already… We are not many enough to matter though. Microsoft and Google will continue to do what they want with 99% of users.

TommySoda ,

If they keep going at this pace, even the average person will be sick of it. My company was already considering it (after some input from myself and a couple coworkers) after they first announced recall. We sometimes deal with sensitive information that we can’t share with anyone outside the company. Periodic screenshots, regardless of what Microsoft says they will do, is a huge security risk.

Petter1 ,

It still can be disabled in windows enterprise using a intune policy, at least.

1984 OP ,
@1984@lemmy.today avatar

Yeah this is all my company cared about. They trust that it will be disabled…

CosmoNova , (edited )

The way MS is headed, would it really surprise anyone if a faulty update accidentally re-enables it without telling you and cause a massive shitstorm, though? I‘m not sure how many companies are naive enough to have this sword of Damocles above their machines. Especially with that disastrous anti-hacker resolution by the UN on the way. Sure, there are a lot of companies that just don‘t care nearly as much as they should, but one massive leak with recall involved could be enough for thousands of them to switch.

mjhelto ,

I’ll switch when Windows 10 is no longer supported. Or just before.

canihasaccount ,

Eh, I switched. I switched all of my lab’s computers, too, and my PhD students have remarked a few different times that Linux is pretty cool. It might snowball.

IAmNotACat ,

I don’t think Linux will displace Windows meaningfully any time soon, but I do think people underestimate the fact that most people don’t install their own OSs. They get people like you to do it for them.

I_Has_A_Hat ,

The problem is like that xkcd comic about experts underestimating the common person’s knowledge in their field. Linux is still not user friendly enough for the vast majority of people. Linux users just don’t seem to understand that most people are in the “wtf is a distro?” level of knowledge and would absolutely panic at the mere sight of a terminal.

untorquer ,

True. Most people wouldn’t know how to install windows. They use it because it’s preinstalled and works. It’s a lot of risk for the average user to attempt an install from media even if it’s well guided. There’s also the roadblock of having media for local backup and the migration of personal data to cloud obfuscating the access to the data even further.

It’s hard enough to get professionals to rtfm.

iorale ,

Tell the average user to configure MPV and tell them to look at the documentation every time they ask for help.
See how fast they go back to Windows.

SorryQuick ,

It’s not “linux”’s job to be userfriendly, it’s up to the distro. Look at android, steam deck and chromebooks, three very userfriendly linux distros. Now we just need some billion dollar company to do what google and valve did with those for a desktop and we’re good to go.

IAmNotACat ,

They don’t need to know what a distro is, the same way they don’t know the difference between Windows Enterprise, Professional, LTSC, etc.

If it’s not OEM, people like us are going to be the ones installing it for them anyway.

dogslayeggs ,

I hope enough companies realize the inherent danger to their IP this feature brings. Or that the government realizes the inherent danger to CUI data and forces there to be an admin level lock of the feature so normal users can’t just turn it on.

I and many others can’t just switch to Linux because we are required to use company laptops/desktops that are admin locked.

thermal_shock ,

shouldn’t be doing personal stuff on work computer. let the company deal with recall if they don’t want their shit leaked.

Olgratin_Magmatoe ,

They didn’t mention personal stuff

thermal_shock ,

then he/she can let the organization decide about recall, it’s not up to him at this point unless he’s the owner. maybe the organization wants recall to further spy on employees and that’s a different reason to not work for them at that point.

lennivelkant ,

That… that’s what they were saying, no? Companies should worry about their shit.

werefreeatlast ,

Specially since there’s no Microsoft app that has ever securely functioned past a few days. This thing is gonna be hacked as soon as it comes out an we won’t know until until there’s an investigation into the accidental death of thirty innocent people as passengers in some vehicle somewhere controlled by windows 11 or something… Boeing re-entry vehicle maybe? Nah! You guys are good! Just jump in and come back home already!

dual_sport_dork ,
@dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world avatar

If the US government bitching was enough to get the flight simulator easter egg removed from Excel (allegedly), I can’t imagine a similar stern glare from the Pentagon would not cause Recall to magically turn out to be uninstallable after all. At least from any US government owned computers originally so equipped.

Anyway, isn’t this only going to roll out on “Copilot” compatible PC’s with the requisite AI acceleration chips in them? I would be furthermore immensely surprised if it could not be locked out in Group Policy for corporate customers.

BmeBenji ,

False. The hard drive where Windows lives will soon find itself exiting my window

theherk ,

Ah the ol’ defenestration uninstallation.

kwomp2 ,

Dewindowed

dual_sport_dork ,
@dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world avatar

Nah, loot it for the magnets at least. Frisbee the platters, save the chassis for the scrap bucket (it’s solid aluminum).

Empricorn ,

Didn’t they say the same thing about Internet Explorer, it was part of the OS and can’t be uninstalled or disabled…

Then, antitrust legal action against Microsoft and it turns out they can enable it being removable. Whoops!

thedeadwalking4242 ,

They are doing a lot better about baking stuff in these days. If you uninstall edge on windows you unironically break a lot of systems, can’t even play Minecraft or use teams lol

OsrsNeedsF2P ,

Webview2 is the edge component that is assumed to be installed on all Windows computers. Unlike runtimes which a launcher could detect is missing and install, Webview2 doesn’t have a silent installed that can be bundled. The user must, by hand, go to a website, select their CPU architecture, and install it.

Anyways it’s clear that, at least within the Windows org, Microsoft is the new Oracle and teams are pointing guns at each other. Hopefully it dies quick to avoid this slow decay.

njordomir ,

Teams isn’t a loss, but MS are scumbag greifers for messing with my Minecraft.

helenslunch ,
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

If you cant uninstall the software, it isnt your computer. If you tell it to do something and it says no, it is not your computer.

I dont understand why people tolerate anything else. Its maddening.

NutWrench ,
@NutWrench@lemmy.world avatar

Microsoft also wants to use 50 gigabytes of your hard drive space (for the Recall snapshots) and make you buy AI co-processors or their software won’t work. They want to use your property to create their own Skynet.

JigglySackles ,

Soeaking of coprocessors…if it’s not in the cpu die, I wonder if we can just desolder the stupid AI chip.

nova_ad_vitum ,

Because they make it easy and do a few cool things.

“Do you want a mic in your home that can record everything you say and do and send that data off to wherever the company chooses?”

“No of course not.”

“What about of it will also turn your lights on and off and play despacito on demand?”

“You son of a bitch, sign me up”.

njordomir ,

This is also the reason why typing on the TV is so bad and the remote has a huge microphone button on it.

FJW ,
@FJW@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

On Arch you can easily uninstall Linux.

The fun part is that there are even legit reasons to do so, the by far most likely one being that you want to use a different package that provides you with a kernel, such as linux-lts or linux-hardened. Definitely know what you are doing in that case though!

lennivelkant ,

Linux in general and Arch in particular are kinda laissez-faire in that they’ll allow you to shoot yourself in the foot. Some distros may put barriers in your way, others practically hand you the gun, but at the end of the day, the gun is freely available and it’s your own foot that you’re shooting.

AWittyUsername ,

I agree but technology hasn’t really been “ours” for a long time. Rooting, jailbreaking, and open source is the only way to take back a modicum of control.

Clanket ,

As a small business, I need MS office & 2 other pieces of software that have no Linux versions. Rightly pissed off that I’ll have to upgrade my main machines to Win 11 by Oct 25.

eodur ,

I’m guessing those pieces of software won’t run in wine? Its pretty good these days.

Clanket ,

I’ve never tried. Does it handle random applications or would they need to be on a list?

eodur ,

it will attempt anything. just search around for anyone else whose tried the app. odds are pretty good.

kalpol , (edited )

Wine is pretty good for most things I’ve tried, except new Office (will run the old versions OK). Try O365, if Libre Office won’t cut it. You can try the installer in Wine without hurting anything. For your other stuff,I keep a Windows 8 vm around off network to run some ancient radio programming software, so maybe that is an option.

gwen ,

what are they? you could search for/ask around in linux forums if wine works well :]

Zeoic ,

MS office PWA is nearly indentical to the desktop apps these days. I switched to linux where I use outlook and excel via pwa for work, and it’s been fine. My M$ centered workplace is actually setting up an option to use linux on their laptops soon, too. I can’t wait for that.

Clanket ,

The web app is nowhere near as powerful as the desktop app. I need the desktop app for about 25% of my work.

Zeoic ,

Which one specifically? Outlook is identical, and excel is nearly the same. Excel is just missing a couple developer mode options like adding a checkbox to a cell, which were basically just gimmicky imo anyways.

Clanket ,

Excel web app can’t do pivot tables and a number of other things that the desktop version can do. Been a while since I looked though.

phx ,

Does M365 not run on Linux?

codenul ,

Have you looked into OnlyOffice. Nice office suite that saves in MS file extensions. Use it all the tjme

patrick ,

I actually want this feature, but I want to own the data. There are some OSS projects writing basically identical things but they aren’t too popular (github.com/jasonjmcghee/rem seems to be the most popular I could find, but I wasn’t able to get the cross-platform version running on my machine).

I also wrote the dumbest possible clone of this feature in bash, the basic data gathering steps are actually pretty easy to do. I’d build this into a real program but I’ve just been too busy lately with other projects: jackson.dev/…/cloning-windows-recall-in-30-lines-…

sirico ,
@sirico@feddit.uk avatar

I always wonder where the line is for the majority of people, maybe there isn’t one and they know it. You’ve got to hand it to Microsoft nearly 30 years and they still have the majority.

1984 OP ,
@1984@lemmy.today avatar

Doesn’t it say more about the users than Microsoft? Seems to me that people who don’t care about computers will accept anything coming from big tech…

sirico ,
@sirico@feddit.uk avatar

Yeah, I guess it means they know people don’t care, and they can do what they want. What are you going to do, use the scary CLI OS that’s for nerds. Or spend loads of money on a walled garden, no just stay in the cosy middle.

All my windows friends and family just don’t care, computers are a utility, and they won’t learn something as easy as Mint or Bazzite. To them, they still see Linux as it was in the 2000s.

There are whole businesses dedicated to MS, like everything they do is MS. You hire an IT firm, they’ll plonk a load of Dells in your offices and spin up Exchange 2019 where everything bespoke is programmed in C#, despite their being better products because it’s all they know. They spent all that money on MS partnerships.

Microsoft have created a stable ecosystem we didn’t learn in the late 90s or the mid 2000s and we will carry on because at this point it’s effort. Unless you’re Germany…

SexualPolytope , (edited )
@SexualPolytope@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Right in front of me is a guy editing a >10 page LaTeX file in Overleaf on a 13 inch laptop. The sidebar takes like 1/3rd of the screen. The editor in around 3 inches in width, and he needs to zoom into the PDF preview to read it.

My point in, some people simply don’t care about anything.

illi ,

They don’t relly know better. Windows is familiar, Linux sounds too complicated and techy. Hell, I was thinking the same and I’m reasonably tech savvy. It’s infinitely more friendly than I’d ever expect.

People are afraid of change and unknown. Though ironically Linux might actually be closer to the original Windows experience that Win11 is (speaking from my limited experience with Mint)

RootBeerGuy ,
@RootBeerGuy@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

There is no such thing as a line, it seems to be a long gradient and its about how fast you move on the gradient. If you ever so slightly introduce more and more crap slowly enough, people don’t care as they forget how good they had it much earlier.

sirico ,
@sirico@feddit.uk avatar

Great way of putting it

Wooki ,

Boiling the frog

helenslunch , (edited )
@helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

Sometimes they boil the frog too quickly, in which case they turn down the heat, wait 3 months, then turn it back up again.

Imagine the backlash if they just went straight from Windows XP to W11. There would be so much whiplash.

Ilovethebomb ,

It’s because Apple products are heinously expensive, and Linux is far more hassle than most people are willing to go to.

There’s also Chrome OS, I have no idea if it’s any good though.

astropenguin5 ,

From my limited experience using it on a shitty Chromebook for school (granted also pretty locked down) and it’s not great. Pretty much only useful for doing web things and the Google ecosystem. I also have no idea whether it’s even possible to get it on anything else.

From a UI perspective I didn’t really like it l, especially as it and other chrome apps got more and more sleek and curvy. I did grow up using a Linux mint laptop though, only getting a dual booted Linux/Windows PC in highschool for some games that needed it as well as running SOLIDWORKS at home. (thanks to my dad for all that lol)

TheGrandNagus , (edited )

This is the thing Lemmy nerds don’t understand:

For most people, using a PC is a chore.

To most people, using a PC is like mopping a floor, or cleaning a car. It’s a boring - even unpleasant - task that you need to do every once in a while. They’d rather be on their phone or their iPad.

When you already view using your PC as a chore, and some Linux user says to you “hey, if you spend a day backing up all your files, creating an install USB, installing Linux, reinstalling your programs (and finding alternatives for those that aren’t available), logging back in to everything, moving your data back across, and relearning how to use a PC, it’ll be worth it in the long run!”, you will just ignore their advice. It’s easier just to say “nah, I only occasionally need my PC when I want to update my CV or write a long email anyway. Thanks for the suggestion though!”

They put up with an hour or two of MS’s bullshit every few months. They don’t like it, but they also don’t care enough about putting effort in so that in future, the chore of using a PC only feels half as bad. At the end of the day, either way, it’s still a chore, and they’d still rather be on their phone/tablet/doing something else entirely.

In the same way, they also don’t care enough about ultimately saving 10 mins every month when they clean their car to go out of their way and do the initial work of claybar-ing, polishing, then waxing it.

I use Linux. I like Linux. But I’m just another Lemmy nerd, not an average PC user.

illi ,

You are correct, but on the other hand it doesn’t hurt to make the average person aware of alternatives.

Can be especially effective when the person buys a new PC and needs to do all the stuff you mention anyway. Yes, it is still a new OS, but honestly, it’s not that different - especially if the person remembers older Windows versions, it might just feel like going to familiar places (I know this is something my wife would really apreciate as she hates the constant changes of how things look). Obviously depends on distro, only have experience with Mint.

I’m saying this from a position of a resonably tech savvy, but not your average tech nerd (at least knowledge wise lol). Sure there are differences under hood but I don’t think the average user would really notice them that much.

floofloof , (edited )

Yes, small things could quickly put ordinary people off Linux with the current state of software. I’m involved in running an organization that needs to submit reports regularly to the government using their online forms. Unfortunately the forms are PDFs that only seem to work in recent versions of Adobe Acrobat Reader. Any other software results in a more or less broken form. I haven’t yet found anything in Linux (even on Wine) that handles these forms properly. So sometimes I have to use Windows.

For me there are still enough benefits to using Linux that I continue with it as my main OS, but for most people they’d quickly get annoyed by obstacles like this. Of course the government shouldn’t be using one company’s proprietary format that only runs on commercial OSes for their forms, but that’s the way it is for now.

namingthingsiseasy ,

I agree, I don’t think they have any limit. Look at how invasive platforms like Facebook are, and yet they’re still massively popular. Mobile operating systems are several times worse than Windows is for privacy and data harvesting, and people clearly don’t care at all. They’ll even happily consent to ever more levels of it - there’s no evidence to suggest that they’ll ever stop.

One of the biggest “mistakes” Microsoft made was not realizing how lucrative data collection could be. Back in the quaint old days of early PC computing, spyware was actually considered a bad thing. When Google came along, that philosophy was flipped on its head. Over the past 15 years, Microsoft has seeing what these spyware vendors are doing and salivating because they know that they are still the kings of computing - they still have total control the PC market and there’s a good chance that it’s not really going anywhere because most people hate change - even though Linux is starting to make inroads in quite a few places.

It would not be surprising if, in a few years, a Windows OS looks like a Google search page, or a cable television channel.

exanime ,

This is the same false analogy people make as to why Americans drive giant trucks to shift blame… it’s not the manufacturers who are pushing these cars to circumvent taxes, it is the users for demanding it.

Very few people actually like these invasive shit Microsoft pulls, but the vast majority either do not know about them, understand them or feel they have another choice. For example, I hate MS, I understand what dog shit this Recall feature is, yet my job will provide a Windows machine with it and I have no choice but to use it.

I am a nerd so at home I do have everything running on Linux. But for the majority of people that would be a unknown option or just an unobtainable one

MigratingtoLemmy ,

I don’t give a shit about what work gives me saying all I’m doing is work on that thing. Now what I’m really afraid of is Microsoft pulling data from the sensors on the device when I’m working from home with it. I need too think of a way to deal with it (I do not have a separate room for work)

Blackmist ,

https://feddit.uk/pictrs/image/083c761d-2674-49f2-955a-1858e2360a18.webp

If you buy a PC it has Windows on it. The majority of people are not cocking about formatting a USB stick and fiddling with the BIOS to put Linux on it. They aren’t thinking about operating systems at all, and if you need specific software for work, chances are it isn’t going to run on anything other than Windows. If you don’t need it for work, you’ve probably just got a tablet by now and store all your photos on Facebook.

Cheskaz , (edited )

That comic really reminds me of trying to degoogle and FOSSify my computer as a complete novice. Multiple, extremely frustrating times, I’ve wanted to install something but I genuinely have not been able to understand the installation instructions. I also don’t know enough to know what the right search terms are to find out what I’m meant to do.

I’m still trying but it’s fucking demoralising.

Trainguyrom ,

If you buy a PC it has Windows on it. The majority of people are not cocking about formatting a USB stick and fiddling with the BIOS to put Linux on it.

And increasingly the majority of people don’t even bother to keep a PC anymore and just use their phone

Blackmist , (edited )

Exactly. We used to have a massive chain of shops called PC World, and that eventually became Currys/PC World, and is now just Currys.

The age of computers came and went, and people still need washing machines and TVs. They still sell laptops I think, but if you want anything from their range of “gaming” PCs, they have to order it in, usually from one of the many stores online that will build them for you.

Windows already lost. It lost to Android.

Andromxda ,
@Andromxda@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Hmm, I wonder if there could be an exploit where Recall is covertly turned on, so it can be used to exfiltrate data. Not a good idea to basically have a surveillance rootkit sitting passively on your system, with no ability to remove it, just waiting to get abused by attackers. But using this proprietary garbage OS nowadays isn’t a good idea in general and there is a much better alternative.

scutiger ,

Windows does have its own command-line package manager. I don’t know if it can remove Recall, but last I checked it could remove Cortana. It would just get reinstalled soon after, but that could be prevented with some file-naming trickery. If you give a file the same name as the folder used to have and make it read-only, it couldn’t remake the folder and wouldn’t reinstall.

I wouldn’t be surprised if you can still do that now.

Andromxda ,
@Andromxda@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Which one do you mean? Winget which is their newest attempt at creating a package manager that isn’t an absolute piece of garbage, or their crappy CLI for managing MSIX/APPX modules? Because I remember using the latter to try and remove Cortana back when I first tried Windows 10. Fast forward, I removed all the garbage I didn’t need, applied a Windows update, restarted my PC and it was all reinstalled. I wiped that SSD the same day and went back to Linux. This was the last time I used Windows on any of my personal devices.

scutiger ,

I was talking about Appx. I haven’t used Windows in a while, but that was how I got rid of Cortana. The key part was the read-only file named after the folder that couldn’t be replaced.

x00za ,

Malware developers don’t even need to have their malware running anymore to grab keylogs and screenshots.

Just enable Recall, schedule your malware for a month from now and it doesn’t even have to run anymore.

cmnybo ,

Sure it can, you just uninstall the entire OS and replace it with Linux.

cyberpunk007 ,

Where’s the windows uninstaller located?!

cmnybo ,

The windows uninstaller is in the Linux ISO.

cheddar , (edited )
@cheddar@programming.dev avatar

magnet:?xt=urn:btih:6f1bde857b97b382f8841cdf3a42c530b3f4e34e&dn=archlinux-2024.09.01-x86_64.iso

Just boot this Windows uninstaller.

cyberpunk007 ,

My computer gives this error:

Error - Arch Linux is already installed.

Clbull ,

Off is the direction in which I would like Microsoft to fuck if they think I’m gonna have a deep learning AI spy on my computer activity.

This just makes me want to switch to Linux.

knightly ,
@knightly@pawb.social avatar

Do it.

Breadhax0r ,

Anecdotally it hasn’t been that hard. I’ve had the best luck with Linux Mint just working straight out of the box. I basically only use my computer to game so your mileage may vary if you need specialized software or something.

Also the benefit of mint is that Ubuntu has a huge user base comparatively so you can find a lot of info online for people who have probably already figured out issues that you might encounter.

pixelscript ,

Stop threatening. Commit. Take the leap. A lot of us here are already on the other side and we’ll help you find your footing.

kalpol ,

And it is not scary. A simple distro like Mint, figure out where the software repositories live, how to use thr off8xe suite, and you’re done. Life is "great*.

ElvenMithril ,

Try Fedora! I did and love it!

gwen ,

back up all your shit and move to linux. start with mint, thats the best one for total beginners imo

y0kai ,

Do it. I made the switch a few months ago and its so much better

Corr ,

Lots of support already but I made it switch in December last year and no regrets. There’s a bit of a learning curve getting used to a new environment but the computer actually becomes a tool you can shape to your needs rather than changing how you work so your computer will do it.

Ilovethebomb ,

If I had a dollar for every dork in the comments telling everyone they run Linux…

arandomthought ,

Then you’d have 0 dollars because they aren’t dorks. They’re nerds and we need more of them. ¯_ (ツ)_/¯

floofloof ,

Hey, I’m a geek and I take offense at that.

arandomthought ,

Don’t worry, we need more of those too. <3

1984 OP ,
@1984@lemmy.today avatar

We do, but nerds don’t find girlfriends easily … :)

Source: myself

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