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autotldr Bot ,

This is the best summary I could come up with:

If your local McDonald’s has been getting your order confidently wrong with an AI chatbot at the drive-thru, I have good news for you: The company is ending the program for now.

The company told franchisees that it’s winding down an AI drive-thru ordering partnership with IBM “no later than July 26th, 2024,” according to trade publication Restaurant Business.

Bloomberg reported that the deal was partly for a chatbot named “Ask Pickles” that employees could use for guidance on things like cleaning ice cream machines.

Even so, Google partnered with Wendy’s, which started testing drive-thru AI based on its tech last year and has since expanded that trial.

And Carl’s Jr., Hardee’s, and others use an AI drive-through chatbot that an SEC filing revealed was underpinned by remote human workers in the Philippines most of the time.

The company also offers things like mobile ordering and in-store kiosks and has tested drone deliveries, kitchen robots, and weird AI hiring tools.

The original article contains 291 words, the summary contains 160 words. Saved 45%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!

jeena ,
@jeena@piefed.jeena.net avatar

I think those kiosks with the big touch screen and the mobile apps work pretty well already, I always rather use them and see a picture what I can order instead of talking to the person.

eager_eagle ,
@eager_eagle@lemmy.world avatar

tbh I’d rather not see the picture when it comes to mcdonald’s, as it can only lead to a disappointment

sugar_in_your_tea ,

To be fair, you’ll be disappointed either way. At least with the menu, they can feel like they’re selling decent food (their pictures do look decent) and you can make sure your order is correct.

eager_eagle ,
@eager_eagle@lemmy.world avatar

I don’t see how one can make sure their order is correct with a fake picture, but whatever floats your boat

sugar_in_your_tea ,

Well, if you push the same fake picture you did last time, you should get a similar, disappointing result. If you get a different, disappointing result, you know your order is wrong.

Semi_Hemi_Demigod ,
@Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world avatar

I’ve stopped waiting in drive thrus because it’s faster and more convenient to order it ahead of time and pick it up inside.

s_s ,

I used the Mcdonalds app a few times and the drivethru was always faster, lmao.

They require location services and don’t start cooking until you’re inside their geofence, but IME they seem to still prioritize drivethru customers.

Semi_Hemi_Demigod ,
@Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world avatar

I don’t eat at McDonald’s, so I haven’t had that experience. But I love being able to order Sheetz food for the next morning when I’m going on a trip, or schedule it for when I’m going to need a pit stop and just have it ready. Wendy’s is also pretty good about this, too.

IamAnonymous ,

I have disabled location settings because it tracks the drive from my home. I enable it to use any deals and close the app after ordering and taking a photo of the order number. They start cooking after you let them know the code in the drive-thru. No need to open the app. They do prioritize drive-thru’s because their performance is tracked based off that. That’s why they sometimes ask you to pull ahead from the window. I never worked there, I just noticed the timing screen in the kitchen when I used to do DoorDash, which tracked when a car got in and out of the line. They used to act as though I was invisible and only served drive-thru.

dhork ,

I can’t use the mobile app because my kid wants a cheeseburger happy meal and it’s impossible to order on the app. Try it! It won’t let you at all.

Technically, cheeseburger happy meals are no longer on the menu because they’ve decided it has too many calories. If you go there and ask for one, of course, they will add a slice of cheese to a hamburger happy meal. But using the app to order one is a bridge too far, I guess.

When it comes down to it, though, we shouldn’t eat that crap anyway.

catloaf ,

I checked, just for you. You can pick the hamburger happy meal and add cheese.

dhork ,

Where are you located? I am in the US. I downloaded and logged into the App again (just in case something changed) and I see no option to add cheese to a hamburger happy meal. I can pick a hamburger meal and “customize”, and add everything else – even a second hamburger patty if I wanted – but no cheese.

Maybe it’s just with my local McD?

catloaf ,

Massachusetts. Adding cheese is there for the two McD’s near me.

lemm.ee/…/c7323c38-f5d0-47e0-b96d-9264755fb952.pn…

lemm.ee/…/81a3ab83-85cd-4f5f-8332-3c997c43a5a2.pn…

dhork ,

Weird. I don’t see that “American Cheese” line at all. Maybe it’s a NY thing.

Imprudent3449 ,

Checking in from Iowa and I have the option here too when I hit the customize button. I do have to scroll down a bit?

You might try uninstalling and reinstalling. If on android, clear your settings before the uninstall. The mcdee app does tend to be kind of unpredictable.

If that doesn’t work, send an email to them. I actually did email on some problem I had and they responded pretty quick with a temp workaround and fixed it later.

catloaf ,

I see cheese in Buffalo and Rochester, but not in Albany. It’s more localized than NY.

dhork ,

Interesting. I will have to do some more experiments later to see where they will let me order that. Thanks for confirming it’s not just me, though. I wa suspicious that there was some sort of cheesy conspiracy going on.

foggy ,

I fucking hate them.

They’re designed for people who are about 5’0". They take so much longer than speaking the order to a person, especially if you have any customizations to add/remove.

0/10, avoid at all costs.

jeena ,
@jeena@piefed.jeena.net avatar

For me it's the exact opposite, most of them have the possibility to change the language to English, even though it's only partially translated I still can see the pictures of what I'm trying to order. If I need to look at the Korean menu and then speak Korean to the person to order, then I would just go away, especially if they don't have pictures on the menu.

For me it's use 10/10 (even the crappy ones)

foggy ,

I can understand the language barrier win there.

randompasta ,

Can I get a McCrapwich? That’s it, no drink. <tap>. It’s like 10 seconds.

foggy ,

Oh, did you want to remove the tomato?

That’ll be an extra 3 minutes.

What parent item are the salads under again?

They blow.

cm0002 ,

They’re designed for people of average (male) height, like everything else from default seatbelt position to doorways. Sounds like yet another tall person complaint to add to the pile.

In any case, I find them comfortable (probably because I’m average height lmao) and I like to take my time ordering to combine the best deals possible without having a cashier staring waiting on me so they can go take care of all the other things that McDs overworks their employees with.

IME (I’ve worked FF before) you “Fuck these machines” people generally trend towards annoying karen-type and take FOREVER ordering.

cyberpunk007 ,

Doorways? Lol. Think about the alternative, if they were designed for the average height for females. Most men would need to duck or crawl under doorways.

cm0002 ,

Ok yea doorways was probably a bad example since those actually get an additional allowance for furniture and crap

And to clarify, I don’t actually agree with the method of using the male average for everything (Ever wonder why they set the Office thermostat to 72? That’s right male average of comfort lol), but it’s what the world around us is built around.

cyberpunk007 ,

You just sound like you’re on a witch-hunt and hate men lol.

son_named_bort ,

I like customizations on the touchscreen. I’ve had several experiences where I tell the cashier what I want including customizations only to get my order and realize that the order wasn’t entered in properly. The touchscreen ensures that the order is at least entered properly.

FaceDeer ,
@FaceDeer@fedia.io avatar

Those kiosks aren't in the drive-throughs.

BeigeAgenda , (edited )
@BeigeAgenda@lemmy.ca avatar

I use them but they are definitely made to be annoying.

  1. Start
  2. No I don’t use a mobile app
  3. Takeaway
  4. Burgers
  5. Big Mac menu
  6. Fries
  7. Cola
  8. Add to basket
  9. No I don’t want extra
  10. Pay
  11. No I don’t want extra
  12. Pay here
  13. Pay with credit card
  14. Finally pay
  15. Printer is not working
  16. Oh what was my number?
megopie ,

I prefer just saying “can I get a medium #2 combo, please.” And being done with it.

kent_eh ,

That may be fine for regular customers, but what about the rest of us who don’t have the menu memorized?

BeigeAgenda ,
@BeigeAgenda@lemmy.ca avatar

Then there’s more ‘uhm’ and ‘aah’ involved.

megopie , (edited )

The menu is 6 foot across, above the counter where you order, glowing, with pictures of each item and number next to it. Even someone who couldn’t read could order food using the normal system.

I’ve literally ordered by signing a number with my fingers to indicate the item I wanted in a country where I don’t speak the language at a fast food franchise I’d never been to before.

kent_eh ,

The menu is 6 foot across, above the counter where you order, glowing, with pictures of each item and number next to it

And changing pages while you’re trying to parse the cacophony of choices and options.

megopie ,

Most menus are fixed paper with back lighting not changing displays, most of the places that have the new displays added them at the same time as the touch screen stations.

LordCrom ,

Fuck all, I hate those things. Just pay a teenager to take my order with a judgemental expression. I hate self checkouts, I hate self order kiosks, no I do not want to use a phone app to place my order, I just want a double cheeseburger with no pickles GODAMMIT

homesweethomeMrL ,

AI so bad it can’t get your burger order right.

No wonder people are sinking hundreds of billions into it. As opposed to, say, education.

cornshark ,

Why would we need education if there aren’t going to be any jobs to do?

homesweethomeMrL ,

It’s one of those mysteries. Maybe we should ask an educated person.

Lost_My_Mind ,

They’ve redirected your call to an untrained AI that just keeps saying “Hello??? Hello??? Hello???”

Because thats all it ever hears before people hang up on it. So thats sll the language they know.

Sabata11792 ,

It’s McDonald’s, no amount of humans or technology will get your order right.

Lost_My_Mind ,

Eh…AI messes my order. Some dumbass teenager messes up my order. Whats the difference?

I wouldn’t call it the MAIN reason I no longer go get fast food…but maybe like the lower end of the top 10 reasons I gave up fast food years ago.

At least the dumbass teenager isn’t putting glue on a pizza. Although in my area they will use the pepperoni placement to make a swastica on your pizza…or put their bare feet into the lettice of the burger king lettice bins. I mean sure, THOSE guys got fired, but how many other stories DON’T make the news???

homesweethomeMrL ,

Eh…AI messes my order. Some dumbass teenager messes up my order. Whats the difference?

I mean, I can think of a couple.

Squiddly ,

I stopped going to BK because they ALWAYS messed up my order. I finally had it and never went back. I bet the ai is more competent than my local BK. What makes this story more sad is I rarely get fast food, mainly as a treat, and fucking BK always messed it up.

mercator_rejection ,

For similar reasons, I stopped ordering with any alterations at all. I used to customize order a little and they always messed it up. It’s pretty rare that I go at all, but I figure that way it’s the standard meal and they can just go in autopilot making it. Less disappointment when things go wrong

ID411 ,

Costs more than people I expect…

Pacmanlives ,

Still order like grandpa. I go in and want to talk to a human and order. I hate those gross ass touchscreens. I am probably a minority especially in my age group and working in tech

StitchIsABitch ,

Always wondered why anyone would rather talk to a person than take their time, have a nice overview of the menu, and pay in advance. I guess they are gross though.

CodingCarpenter ,

The only time I would rather not talk to a person is if the accent causes a language barrier. Otherwise 9 times out of 10 a person is going to understand what you want better especially if it’s a customization issue

Lost_My_Mind ,

The only time I would rather not talk to a person is if the accent causes a language barrier.

“Gobble gobble goo?”

“Uhhhh…I’m sorry?”

“Gobble…gobble…goo?”

“…what?”

“GOBBLE GOBBLE GOO!!!”

“I have no idea what you mean by that…”

Guy behind you in line: “c’mon man!!! Pay attention! He’s saying CAN I HELP YOU?”

“Really? Those phonetic sounds were supposed to be in any way similar to the thing you said? It’s not even close…”

“English is probably his second language. How well do you speak THEIR language?”

“Which language do you speak?”

“Yjxrjk#@■♡○{rjbzwk!”

“I’m done.”

WarlordSdocy ,

At least in my experience I have more customization issues when taking to people rather than using an app or going through a kiosk. The only time it’s the other way around is when they don’t include an option I want on the digital version but that’s becoming less and less common for me at least. The number of times I’ve had orders just missing customization things I asked for but they didn’t hear or forgot to enter is much higher when I go through the drive through or go in person then when I do it through something digital.

Cryophilia ,

Where I live there’s loads of heavily accented people so language is a massive barrier. Some of the employees don’t even speak English.

trollblox_ ,

just use your knuckle

timbuck2themoon ,

Because I’m at a fast food place in the first place because my time is important and I don’t want to waste it ordering.

That and the guy taking orders does it 1000x a day and i can easily order that way instead of me navigating ten different menus just to order a simple meal for my family.

I’m OK with my old man status at this point. Tech is good when it improves things for the consumer. The kiosks seem to just improve the company bottom line IMO.

kevincox ,
@kevincox@lemmy.ml avatar

I am a touch screen enjoyer. At least in theory. I like having time to browse, look at pictures, easy access to customization options and most importantly no feeling of pressure. I am not spending a cashier’s time and potentially blocking someone behind me (at least there is usually less of a line for the self-ordering).

However there are negatives for sure. My biggest annoyance is that these devices are often annoyingly slow and unresponsive. They just display a tiny bit of text and images, they should switch between screens at 60fps, not 2s per click. Also if I know what I want it is often faster to tell the cashier and let them enter the order (on their more expert-optimized and less laggy keypad).

WarlordSdocy ,

This is why I tend to just use the mobile apps for places to order. Not laggy and gives the benefits you mentioned of using a touch screen kiosk. A lot of them you don’t even need an account to use the app which is nice if that’s something that bothers you.

kevincox ,
@kevincox@lemmy.ml avatar

Yeah, I like this style but don’t want their apps installed on my phone. A few places have mobile sites which is excellent, I know what access it has and it is shut down completely when I close the tab.

kescusay ,
@kescusay@lemmy.world avatar

But what if they want to notify you about great deals and coupons? DON’T YOU WANT TO KNOW ABOUT GREAT DEALS AND COUPONS?!?

kevincox ,
@kevincox@lemmy.ml avatar

Basically yes. But also they can do that via email or web push notifications. Not that I would allow either.

WarlordSdocy ,

I just don’t give notification permissions to most apps unless I actually care about notifications from it.

slumberlust ,

There’s a reason everyone and their brother want you to install an app these days.

jmp242 ,

The apps are super slow though. Like I don’t need a 5 second animation of bouncing fries every time I do anything. Dunkin is another offender.

ShepherdPie ,

I find this a bit odd as you make it seem as if ordering is a complicated process that takes some thought and planning. The whole draw of McDonalds is that you get the exact same food wherever you may be and their options are fairly limited. Ham/cheeseburger, chicken burger, fish sandwich, or nuggets is pretty much your array of options.

I personally dislike the ordering screens as they make the process way to drawn out. Let me just pick a #1, the size, and the drink and be done with it in 3 taps. Last time I used one, it wanted me to basically build my own meal as if I was ordering Dominoes online and building my own pizza.

kevincox ,
@kevincox@lemmy.ml avatar

As I said if you know what you want the cashier is usually faster and easier. However I don’t eat at any single fast food place very often. So even if I know sort of what I want I don’t remember exactly what toppings, flavours and sizes are available. If I was ordering I would probably just pick whatever common order I would expect can work, but I appreciate that I can see a list of options and do a bit of browsing.

spongebue ,

their options are fairly limited. Ham/cheeseburger, chicken burger, fish sandwich, or nuggets is pretty much your array of options

You must not have been to a McDonald’s in a while. Do you want that chicken sandwich grilled or crispy? Spicy? Are we talking the basic value sammich you can wolf down before you leave the parking lot, or the bigger one that comes in a cardboard box? The one with bacon and ranch, or one of the others? Did you want a combo meal? Lettuce is stupid filler on a sandwich, do you want to skip that?

CalcProgrammer1 ,
@CalcProgrammer1@lemmy.ml avatar

Also, explicit confirmation of your customizations and of your order. You can double check yourself to make sure it’s all correct before submitting the order while the distracted and overworked employee at the counter could hit the wrong button or skip a customization and you often wouldn’t know until you receive the wrong item. Then you have to create more work for the workers to get your order remade.

amelia ,

They just display a tiny bit of text and images, they should switch between screens at 60fps, not 2s per click.

I think this is intentional. They want you to take time looking at the pictures so you might think “you know what, actually I’d like some of those fries as well” by making it hard to just quickly select what you want and leave.

I wouldn’t even be surprised if there’s a psychological effect where you feel like ordering more makes this tedious ordering process more worthy. I mean why go through 2 minutes of clicking and waiting just for one stupid cheeseburger.

Etterra ,

Translation: the AI was worse at it than even Drunk Steve after a 3-day bender.

Evotech ,

Ai, pretty good. Speach recognition software. Still trash

TexasDrunk ,

Hey, leave Drunk Steve out of this. He did nothing wrong.

sunzu ,

Ohh damn are they going back to filthy organics?

kromem ,

A lot of people seem to be misinterpreting the headline given the content of the article:

It told Restaurant Business it was testing whether the voice ordering chatbot could speed up service and that the test left it confident “that a voice-ordering solution for drive-thru will be part of our restaurants’ future.”

This is just saying that they are ending their 2021 partnership with IBM for AI drive thru.

Not that they are abandoning AI for drive thru.

megopie ,

I suspect that even if they were abandoning future plans for AI drive through ordering, they wouldn’t say they were. Saying you’re not doing anything with AI might actually hurt a companies share price right now.

obviouspornalt ,

Drive through seems like a great proving ground. Record every drive through customer / cashier interaction. Match each recording up with the transaction entered into the register. Train a model by having the model “listen” to the recording to predict what the order should look like, then match it to the items on the transaction receipt.

Then, phase 1 of implementation is to use the model in real time by listening to the live conversation at the drive through, predicting what it thinks the order should be, then prompting the cashier to double-check the order to see if the human made a mistake entering the order if the prediction doesn’t match.

Phase 2 is human-supervised, where the order taking system interacts directly with the customer to take the order, the human checks the result, and is able to step in / take over if there’s a mistake or a special case the order system can’t handle.

Phase 3 is “fuck your entry level employment” and no human is monitoring the system.

All 3 phases seem completely doable to me at this point, depending on how much backlash MCD is willing to deal with.

pewgar_seemsimandroid ,

not tacobell.

xantoxis ,

Two stories like this–as in, “oops AI sucks actually”, in about as many weeks. (The other one was about Amazon shutting down their Just Walk Out mechanical turk nonsense.)

I think we’re starting to see the tide turn against Altman’s big con.

I liked this quote BTW:

the test left it confident “that a voice-ordering solution for drive-thru will be part of our restaurants’ future.”

lmao you… already have one of those? So the subtext of this message is “we can’t just say AI was a terrible idea but yeah, we’re going back to the shit that worked before”

dev_null ,

At least the “just walk out” was a genuine attempt at the tech, created long before the AI craze. Still failed, but they weren’t following a fad.

bc93 ,

deleted_by_author

    •
    dev_null ,

    I wonder if the concept could still be useful. It fails if the goal is removing human workers, but the tech basically enables “cashiers” to work from home, and that’s a win for the cashiers who’d like that.

    But no one is going to invest in a win for the cashiers, and if they did, then like we saw, it would be outsourcing the work to third world nations, rather than local people having the ability to work from home…

    greenskye ,

    Maybe I’m just really good with talking to robots, but the AI drivethru voice at my local McDonald’s is way, way, way more accurate than basically all of the employees they used to have running it before. A few times it’s been down for whatever reason and an actual human takes my order and I remember how shit they are at their jobs when they get my order wrong yet again, or can’t hear me, or talk with gum in their mouths or whatever.

    rottingleaf ,

    Why would they in the first place? What’s wrong with a touchscreen menu to take an order?

    Then, of course, I’m not sure such places fundamentally even need human personnel other than maintenance techs. Standard ingredients, prepackaged I think, standard hardware to cook, standard everything. It can just be a huge burger-selling machine with no human in sight.

    LordCrom ,

    I personally HATE those places where you walk inside and you need to use the stupid touchscreen. I’ve asked someone to take my order, they say no. So I get in the car and go to the drive through where you still get a person taking your order.

    rottingleaf ,

    What if there are physical buttons, like with ATMs?

    bc93 ,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    figjam ,

    Not the OP but for me it takes like 4 times longer to use the tuch screen. Find the button for what i want. Do you want to super-sized? Do you want fries with that? How are you paying today? Blah blah blah whereas with the counter its me saying one sentence and them pushing 2 buttons.

    bc93 ,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    Potatos_are_not_friends ,

    Ooof not sure why you got downvoted.

    I’m starting to think people who hate ordering from a touchscreen really see talking to a cashier as fulfilling social needs.

    LordCrom ,

    Nope, just faster and easier.

    LordCrom ,

    If there are 4 people in line for a cashier, take away the cashier and you still have 4 people in line waiting for the kiosk… And it will take longer because ordering from the kiosk is a slow process.

    figjam ,

    I would use the touchscreen in that case.

    suction ,

    Maybe stand a foot further apart from the screen? That way you’ll be able to see the button better.

    What you hate about it are the constant upsell shenanigans, not the touchscreen per se. I dislike those, too, but I reckon the human staff are also trying to sell more than you want?

    Nindelofocho ,

    Its because those touch screens have clunky UI and are slow if they made it simple and straightforward instead of a question for every page it would be as fast if not faster than a person ordering at a register. Most PoS systems are touch screen nowadays so literally all your doing instead of putting in the options in yourself is telling someone else what to put in. They also do it hundreds of times an hour so they are way faster that someone whos only used a kiosk a few times

    suction ,

    He’s looking to chat up some young ladies before he has to go back home to the old ball’n’chain…

    tankplanker ,

    Lots of their drive thrus use a person to take the order, and at a busy drive thru this becomes a dedicated person or persons just to take orders. If they can flip it to AI then they could open more lanes and reduce staff. Problem is that a skilled person is going to be better than AI over a shitty audio system, look at how Alexa and Siri struggle even when they have an optimized reception setup than the crappy setup you have at a drive thru with the person sitting inside their car, with music on and so on.

    rottingleaf ,

    Maybe voice interfaces are simply a fundamentally flawed idea. If one can extend a hand to take the package with the food, they can also push a few buttons. If those buttons are with hercons or such, they’ll even last longer than consumer-grade touchscreens.

    Of course it’s easier when a human takes the order. But then if the cost of N screens with physical buttons is equal to that, one can make their order, say, N/2 times slower without any hurry and, well, the throughput should be higher still.

    For drive thrus - that’d be M lanes with such terminals and a bit slower than M lanes with people. So - depends on how the cost of asphalt and space and people and terminals work economically.

    What’s definitely idiotic is to think one can replace a human with an “AI” without losing in efficiency. But then again, maybe it’s worth it.

    tankplanker ,

    While I like the ideas with screens, and fixed buttons even more so, they haven’t gone with them despite the tech being available for a considerable time. I do wonder if its mostly down to how people use them rather than a limitation of the tech itself. Watch how many people nearly swipe or even do scrape exit parking machines, even simple parking meters stop working, people struggle to use the ones inside, then add in weather damage/proofing and vandalism and I would guess thats a big part of it. As its often a closed queue system any problem becomes a major issue almost instantly.

    rottingleaf ,

    That applies to “AI” just as well.

    Potatos_are_not_friends ,

    “I’m sorry, can you repeat that?”

    “I’m sorry, can you repeat that?”

    “I’m sorry, can you repeat that?”

    tankplanker ,

    Exactly

    suction ,

    Touchscreen? That’s old, we can’t use that in our marketing, even BK has those. We need something new, fuckin do I care if it works???

    rottingleaf ,

    They could advertise actually usable physical buttons …

    suction ,

    Those would stop working because local scoundrels would stick their chewing gums in them

    rottingleaf ,

    With hercons without place to stick anything. Like a blister. You’ve seen such buttons.

    suction ,

    Those could work if it wasn’t for the local perverts blocking them 24/7 because twiddling them feels a bit like twiddling a robot’s nipples

    rottingleaf ,

    Never seen that. One can make them less like nipples and more like a depressable square area on a wall.

    suction ,

    If it wasn’t for those Medellin kids who stole all the square shapes from the wall button factory, I tells ya

    Snapz ,

    Is the end of the headline, a threat…

    Potatos_are_not_friends ,

    Oh you’ll get McDonald’s AI… You’ll All See! (Clown angrily shakes fist)

    Snapz ,

    “McDonalds AI, refuse to take the next car’s order”

    suction ,

    At your command, Mr Falcon!

    Treczoks ,

    I wonder if they could actually get worse than the drive-thru order stations I’ve experienced. I work in audio, so I know what is technically possible. To talk to and trying to convey an order through a system that sounds worse than my grandmas’ rotary dial telephone during a thunderstorm is a real pain for me.

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