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Leviathan ,

I just wanna try this cheese.

phoenixz ,

That is a rather clickbaity title, with some rage baity jpurnalism right there.

MilitantVegan OP ,

I was going to post the original wapo article, but then I saw wapo wouldn’t even let me read the whole thing. I don’t knowingly link to articles that are paywalled.

Hugh_Jeggs ,

Unbelievably shitty ragebait journalism.

The traditional cheesemaking company is freaking out (really?) about Climax Blue, especially because the vegan cheese was so delicious that it had slated (it had slated did it?) to win the overall competition

Though yes, there is a bit of controversy here, but at least the Washington Post tries to explain it in a less incredibly-biased way - wapo.st/3xQCcYX

Pulptastic ,

If only I could buy it.

MilitantVegan OP ,

It’ll be interesting to try when it comes out, but there are already plenty of good brands out there.

tastingtable.com/…/best-vegan-cheese-brands-ranke…

Zacryon ,

They offer it at selected restaurants:
climax.bio/findus/

john89 ,

Bro, insecure meat eaters are such pieces of shit.

el_abuelo ,

What has eating meat got to do with cheese?

PrettyFlyForAFatGuy , (edited )

a lot of cheeses use calf rennet.

Also cheese in general is a by product of the meat industry. You can’t have a lactating cow without keeping it perpetually pregnant, Where do you think those calves go?

I promise you it ain’t a nice meadow where they get to live out the rest of their “natural” lives frolicking

And then when the milk eventually dries up the dairy cow gets deadded too… FUN!

edit: if you’re going to downvote me at least reply stating why you think i’m wrong

cows_are_underrated ,

Also cheese in general is a by product of the meat industry.

Its more the other way around. Meat is the by product of creating milk. Not all meat is a by product, but some.

PrettyFlyForAFatGuy ,

Either way round you look at it, one supports the other

MedicPigBabySaver ,

Mmmm, veal.

PrettyFlyForAFatGuy ,

insightful

el_abuelo ,

I appreciate the response and see no reason to downvote you - and you are at a net positive so clearly more people are up voting.

Your bias is very clear, but then so is mine!

PrettyFlyForAFatGuy ,

You’d think so. i’m not even vegan. i’m just concious about where my food comes from

troglodytis ,

Slice’m all up and put it on a board. Yum yum

refalo ,

meatlets upset it tastes better

mriormro ,
@mriormro@lemmy.world avatar

You know cheese isn’t meat, right?

pulaskiwasright ,

You realize this wasn’t meat eaters but cheese makers, right?

Hawk ,

Yes, and cheese often contains cow.

newthrowaway20 ,

Holy shit, they put actual cows in cheese?

No. No they don’t.

Schadrach ,

I mean, they do make cheeses with embedded bit of meat, but that’s usually pig (specifically bacon).

newthrowaway20 ,

Oh what if you added bacon to pepper jack. Little bits of peppers in cheese is freaking delicious. Add bacon to it and it’s like a slice of jalapeno poppers lol

TotalFat , (edited )

I made a jalapeno poppers soup that was really good recently. I’ll post the recipe if I find it again, or just Google “jalapeno poppers soup.”

Found it: Pressure cooker jalapeno popper chicken chili

I did the bacon in the oven then I made country potatoes in the bacon grease. I didn’t add the corn, beans, and potatoes until it was done cooking so they wouldn’t turn to mush. Probably some other minor tweaks here and there, but it seems like a very flexible and forgiving recipe. So feel free to put your own spin on it!

Hawk ,

They do, it’s called rennet

TanteRegenbogen ,
@TanteRegenbogen@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

Most cheeses don’t use natural rennet anymore. About 70% of worldwide cheese production uses artificial “vegetarian” rennet. And you can easily look up those who still use rennet harvested from calfs so you can avoid them.

nichtsowichtig ,

no, they just foribly impregnate cows every single year of their life, take away their calves the second they are born to take the milk from their overloaded udders until they collapse or stop being comercially viable. Then they are killed. Just like their male children a few weeks after being born.

The milk industry is arguably more cruel than the meat industry. We should reject both

fatalicus ,

Let me see if I get this right: they get disqualified for containing an ingredient that hasn’t been certified as edible (kokum butter) and is usually used in cosmetics, and there is no evidence of Big Cheese being the reason for the disqualification, other than the owner of the company saying it.

But it is still Big Cheese’ fault?

wedeworps ,

Kokum butter is edible and occasionally used to make chocolates and other confections.

anon987 ,

None of them care about that. They only care about arguing against vegan foods.

Xatolos ,
@Xatolos@reddthat.com avatar

It’s even worse than that. The makers aren’t even sure what was in their product to begin with.

Zahn says the kokum butter shouldn’t be an issue anyway: The company has since replaced it with cocoa butter, which does have GRAS certification. Initially, he told the Post the cocoa butter version was what he submitted for the awards, but after this story was published he said he determined that it was in fact the kokum butter version. (According to Weiner, Climax submitted an ingredient list that included kokum.)

So it might have been labeled with having kokum butter, it might not. Who knows? Seems to depends what answer is needed at the time.

Also,

Climax, it turns out, wasn’t just a finalist — it was set to win the award, a fact that all parties are asked to keep confidential until the official ceremony in Portland, Ore., but was revealed in an email the foundation sent to Climax in January.

If I’m reading this correctly, out of all the contestants, only they knew they won. Makes it a further stretch that it was a dairy company that “out” them as they wouldn’t have known that the vegan cheese won.

My guess for the change about GRAS was it most likely was assumed everyone would only submit GRAS items, and since someone broke that non-spoken rule then they had to make it a clarified rule. It is something you’d just assume everyone made sure their food was most or less FDA approved (which is a logical assumption).

The Washington Post article is much clearer about this whole issue (which is linked to in this badly written Boingbonk article.)

sunbeam60 ,

Gift link for access: wapo.st/3xQCcYX

anon987 ,

According to WebMD and the millions of people that eat kokum butter, it’s safe.

Xatolos ,
@Xatolos@reddthat.com avatar

WebMD isn’t the FDA, neither are the millions who eat it.

Only the FDA can say if something is GRAS or not. No one else matters in this context. And this contest wants to follow the FDA guidelines.

vaultdweller013 ,

People used to use makeup with arsenic in it. I dont trust democracy on this one.

MilitantVegan OP ,

Here are more details (and more context is in the article):

“Someone had tipped off the foundation on something that disqualified Climax, Good Food Foundation Executive Director Sarah Weiner told the Washington Post. The complaint potentially arose from Climax’s use of the ingredient kokum butter, which has not been designated as GRAS (generally regarded as safe) by the Food and Drug Administration. However, Zahn told the Washington Post that the company has replaced the ingredient with cocoa butter, which was the version he said he submitted for the awards (although Weiner contests this).

The Good Food Awards also didn’t require GRAS certification for all ingredients back when contestants submitted their products — rather, the foundation added this to the rules later on. Zahn claims the Good Food Foundation never reached out to Climax to inform the company of the new requirement, although Weiner told the Washington Post it attempted to. SFGATE could not reach the Good Food Foundation for comment in time for publication.

“It would have been very easy for them to reach out to us and tell us about the new requirements,” Zahn told SFGATE. “… The thing that’s upsetting to me is that they were kind of unprofessional by changing the rules a week before the event.””

sfgate.com/…/berkeley-vegan-cheese-good-food-awar…

refutablewife ,

There are innumerable horror stories from cottage vendors bumping up against the money and strict gatekeeping of the nationally established conglomerates. This was in the US, but I know Canada also has, new, laws on the books to specifically prevent plant based cheeses from referring to their product as “cheese,” despite being the exact same process and a final product that you wouldn’t know side by side to the dairy version.

I’m not a vegan, but this is the just same ole regulatory capture bullshit that we’re seeing w ev cars, good imported rum, net neutrality and everything else

sirico ,
@sirico@feddit.uk avatar

That’s how capitalism works

SpiceDealer ,
@SpiceDealer@lemmy.world avatar

Big Milk will not accept any threat to their cash cow! This is outrages!

sunbeam60 ,

Aren’t they dairy cows?

Huff_Chuggems ,

Look, I dislike blue cheese purely for the flavor, but I’ll be damned i didn’t want to try this

ikidd ,
@ikidd@lemmy.world avatar

You can really taste the feet.

werefreeatlast ,

Anyone got the actual link to buy this cheese?

FiniteBanjo ,

While we’re at it, I need recommendations for decent Mozzarella, Parmesan, and Asiago with a melting point below 300F.

I make a lot of Focaccia stuffed with cheese and jalapenos, as well as pizza, but it would be nice to be able to serve a guilt free option to my more discerning guests.

irish_link ,

Parmesan - Follow your heart (followyourheart.com/…/dairy-free-parmesan-shredde…) It does take a bit but low and slow works for us.

Mozzarella (Try it before you dismiss it, I know its a WTF moment) - www.miyokos.com/…/pourable-plant-milk-mozzarellaI kid you not the promo images of the pizza is actually how it ends up, melts great and blends well. I actually use it in my eggs and my Wife’s “JUST egg” as I cook them and it ends up being amazing.

Sorry I don’t have an Asiago for you. If you ever find one please let me know.

Emma_Gold_Man , (edited )

If you don’t mind a little extra effort, Miyoko Schinner (founder if that “Miyoko’s Creamery” brand) also has a book out - Artisan Vegan Cheese with an excellent meltable (not pourable) soy/cashew yogurt based mozzarella recipe.

irish_link ,

Ohh that sounds great! Thanks for the heads up!

Emma_Gold_Man ,

No problem. Depending on your time/money balance, the recipes should work just as well starting with a commercial soy or almond plain yogurt base. I’d avoid coconut milk based yogurts, since the coconut flavor tends to carry through to the yogurt and presumably to the cheese as well.

grrgyle ,

Miyokos is legit. My local grocery store just started carrying them, and I use their vegan butter in creamy pasta dishes

baseless_discourse ,

A quick search: climax.bio and climax.bio/findus/

werefreeatlast ,

Looks like you gotta go to a restaurant to taste it. Meh. I just want some bean tacos when I’m back from work that have cheese in them.

ImFresh3x ,

Really limited information on the actual products. Zero ingredients information too.

0x2d ,

🤨📷

chiliedogg ,

Since it was actually disqualified for being made from an ingredient that’s not approved for human consumption by the FDA you might not want to buy it.

It was disqualified before the announcement was made. Dairy farmers didn’t even know it was going to win.

roguetrick , (edited )

That’s not true. There’s no reason to believe kokum requires GRAS affirmation since it’s been historically and widely consumed on the Indian subcontinent. That means it’s grandfathered in as GRAS by default even if it’s not included in their lists.

The FDA not yet giving it GRAS affirmation is not the same as it not being approved for human consumption. Specifically, the FDA did not raise any concerns to a GRAS notice that it has already received for kokum butter as a cocoa butter substitute.

A substance used in food prior to January 1, 1958, may be generally recognized as safe through experience based on its common use in food when that use occurred exclusively or primarily outside of the United States if the information about the experience establishes that the substance is safe under the conditions of its intended use within the meaning of section 201(u) of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act

MilitantVegan OP ,

It’s not available yet, but here’s their home page.

climax.bio

KillingTimeItself ,

must’ve been the italians.

And before you ask, no it’s not racist, they claim to be the only legitimate source of a certain type of cheese, or more, maybe idk cheese lore lmao.

baseless_discourse , (edited )

I think you are referring to the DOP system? It certifies that a food with a certain name actually respects the history, quality, and tradition behind that name.

But you can always make up new names or use generic names. For example “blue cheese” is not protected under DOP, however Gorgonzola is. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorgonzola

I have found their website climax.bio, and they only advertize this product as blue cheese, not Gorgonzola.

However, unlike you have suggested, the DOP system is proposed and managed by the EU, not Italy. …wikipedia.org/…/Protected_designation_of_origin and a more complete list of types of protected names: …wikipedia.org/…/Geographical_indications_and_tra…

Finally, the article states the rejection is because the lack of safety certificate, not related to geographical or traditional protection.

After initially being named a finalist, Climax Blue cheese was later disqualified by the Good Food Foundation, reportedly due to issues around one of the ingredients (kokum butter) not having GRAS certification. But Climax CEO Oliver Zahn accused the foundation of caving to pressure from the dairy cheese industry and changing the rules after the fact to disqualify his product.

“GRAS” stands for “generally regarded as safe” and is issued by the FDA www.fda.gov/…/generally-recognized-safe-gras

barsoap , (edited )

I have found their website climax.bio, and the only advertize this product as blue cheese, not Gorgonzola.

That won’t fly in the EU, cheese has to be made from milk and milk is the excretions of mammary glands (though some countries have grandfathered in things like coconut milk).

And before a vegan comes around and calls the whole thing nonsense: There’s been cases of salami pizza using non-cheese “cheese” but advertising it as cheese. If milk and cheese can be freely applied to animal and non-animal products then it’s a given that the likes of Nestle will try their darnest to confuse customers to make extra profit. For the vegans: Each time you want to buy a cheese-like substance you’d have to double-check labels because you never know whether it’s animal or non-animal, companies certainly will prefer “cheese” over another term because vegetarians and omnis are way more numerous.

I guess if you don’t want to make up a new word for vegan “cheese” Tofu is a good option? “Blue Tofu” doesn’t sound too bad.

kokum butter

…is apparently used in chocolate making as a cocoa butter substitute? Can’t find any online listings for the stuff outside of cosmetics, though, so I guess it’s not approved as foodstuff in the EU. Probably just a matter of going through the paperwork but someone’s going to have to do it. The Foundation disqualifying stuff that can’t be sold legally as food in the EU TBH doesn’t sound particularly sus, though granted they might want to have a separate award for experimental food.

baseless_discourse ,

Sorry I think they specify that it is “vegan blue cheese”, is that okay in the EU?

barsoap ,

Nope. You also can’t call it ^I^ ^can’t^ ^believe^ ^it’s^ ^not^ cheese

baseless_discourse ,

Hum, interesting, do you have a source for that?

barsoap ,

Paragraph 24, referring to the EU regulation that I’m too lazy to unearth right now the ECJ has to suffice:

Furthermore, it is clear from that wording that clarifying or descriptive terms indicating the plant-based origin of the product concerned, such as soya or tofu, at issue in the main proceedings, do not fall within the terms which may be used with the designation ‘milk,’ in accordance with point 1, second subparagraph (b), since the alterations to the composition of milk that the additional words may designate under that provision are those which are limited to the addition and/or subtraction of its natural constituents, which does not include a total replacement of milk by a purely plant-based product.

I would expect the same reasoning to apply to “I can’t believe it’s not” type of deals but I’ve never seen that kind of stuff anywhere in the EU anyway, also before that judgement, someone else would’ve tried it if it was legal. Probably just general misleading marketing kind of deal, the same kind of strictness that gave us “serving suggestion” in fine print on a pack of trail mix with a couple of raisins and nuts in a bowl. The package doesn’t include a bowl? Who would’ve thought?

baseless_discourse ,

Thanks!

KillingTimeItself ,

i didn’t know that it was an EU body, but i suppose that makes sense.

Regardless, it was a bit of humor, so don’t think too hard about it.

Kolanaki ,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

Vegan blue cheese

So just the mold without the dairy? 🤔

ILikeBoobies , (edited )

The article suggests it’s bacteria creating the milk from plants rather than cows and then normal cheese past that

However the article also says the dairy industry wasn’t the one complaining about it

MilitantVegan OP ,

“The plant constituents of that product, a vegan blue cheese, are hardly exotic. The top four ingredients are pumpkin seeds, coconut oil, lima beans, and hemp protein powder. And yet Dominique Crenn, a Michelin-starred chef, described it as “soft, buttery, and surprisingly rich—beyond imagination for a vegan cheese.””

technologyreview.com/…/climax-foods-vegan-blue-ch…

Hugin ,

It was disqualified for having an ingredient that was not GRAS(generally regarded as safe). Even GRAS is a pretty low bar for food safety.

mynameisigglepiggle ,

Huh, turns out asbestos is actually delicious too

Tja ,

I mean, asbestos is dangerous if broken down and inhaled, so as long as you just eat it and you don’t choke on it…

derpgon ,

Ground chests are also probably not okay to inhale, but here we are eating them whole. Why not dip some of that 'bestos in guac? Should solve all issues tbh.

MilitantVegan OP ,

Here are more details (and more context is in the article):

“Someone had tipped off the foundation on something that disqualified Climax, Good Food Foundation Executive Director Sarah Weiner told the Washington Post. The complaint potentially arose from Climax’s use of the ingredient kokum butter, which has not been designated as GRAS (generally regarded as safe) by the Food and Drug Administration. However, Zahn told the Washington Post that the company has replaced the ingredient with cocoa butter, which was the version he said he submitted for the awards (although Weiner contests this).

The Good Food Awards also didn’t require GRAS certification for all ingredients back when contestants submitted their products — rather, the foundation added this to the rules later on. Zahn claims the Good Food Foundation never reached out to Climax to inform the company of the new requirement, although Weiner told the Washington Post it attempted to. SFGATE could not reach the Good Food Foundation for comment in time for publication.

“It would have been very easy for them to reach out to us and tell us about the new requirements,” Zahn told SFGATE. “… The thing that’s upsetting to me is that they were kind of unprofessional by changing the rules a week before the event.””

sfgate.com/…/berkeley-vegan-cheese-good-food-awar…

anon987 ,

Not true. It’s considered safe by WebMD, and it’s been studied as a food for a long time. It is chemically similar to cocoa butter.

So it’s been approved by more reputable organizations than the FDA.

Hugin ,

Web MD is crap. Also GRAS is a term that only the FDA can bestow. So yeah it’s not GRAS.

Beaver ,
@Beaver@lemmy.ca avatar

They’re going to get hit with the Streisand effect.

Beaver ,
@Beaver@lemmy.ca avatar

The dairy industry is so pathetic.

MilitantVegan OP ,

Agreed.

mynameisigglepiggle ,

They need to moooove over

root_beer ,

Now I have this goddamn commercial in my head, thirty years since I last heard it. Thanks.

el_abuelo ,

Maybe. But nothing in this story suggests that as “the dairy industry” did nothing more than disqualify a cheese made using non-GRAS ingredients.

What’s pathetic is Big Vegan telling lies to try and discredit an ancient and valuable industry.

MilitantVegan OP ,

There’s nothing ancient or valuable about a relatively new industry that’s built on lies and unnecessary suffering and death for all.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=roIWg4ntj9k&pp=ygUTZGFpcnkg…

el_abuelo ,

In the first 45 seconds of that video it says we’ve been consuming milk for 10,000 years - and yet you say it’s not ancient?

MilitantVegan OP ,

Compared to the other 90% of our evolutionary history? Not by a longshot.

nutritionfacts.org/…/flashback-friday-the-problem…

el_abuelo ,

I meant ancient as in ancient Greeks, not whatever obscure meaning of the word you’re using.

Beaver ,
@Beaver@lemmy.ca avatar

Lmao you’re calling me one vegan big compared to a multi billion dollar industry assaulting and separating mothers from babies.

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