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Mothra , in Priorities, right?
@Mothra@mander.xyz avatar

Who is flexing ad rev? I don’t get it

NovaPrime ,
@NovaPrime@lemmy.ml avatar

It’s a spammer with a hard on against mbfc who has been posting shit “memes” across different instances. Best to block and ignore whenever you see an alt pop up

HootinNHollerin ,

What’s mbfc?

LilDumpy ,
@LilDumpy@lemmy.world avatar

Media Bias Fact Check

fushuan ,

The not that got down voted every time I saw it and and I never see in months? The hurt in the butt had be have been enormous to hate it so much to still be posting about it .

taanegl , in Tweets on X (formally Twitter)

As a strong black woman, I’m kind of pissed that we lost all those talented female lyricists and R&B singers who got Thanos snapped out of existence in the late 90s because they didn’t want to sell sex. It makes me want to slap a bitch for calling it “empowerment”…

At least my inner black woman is angry af because of that.

The music industry is garbage, pure garbage. Sony and Universal execs have a special place in hell.

velox_vulnus , (edited )

The music industry is garbage, pure garbage. Sony and Universal execs have a special place in hell.

Modern labels have shamelessly sampled music from other culture, without understanding the significance, and that’s truly pathetic.

One such song I came across was from Travis Scott (I think?), which was sampled from a song made by Bhakti reformists, who, way before the era of colonialism in India, spoke against brahmanism, casteism, elitism and women’s right, in the 7-8th century in India. And the lyrics? Totally the opposite of what’s in the sample - objectifying women like replaceable toys.

They also did the same to the Italian anti-fascist song “Bella Ciao”. Now it’s a stupid pop song, and people think that this is some random, catchy stuff that is played in the carnival.

0stre4m ,

Yes, the music industry is predatory as shit. Most of the “stars”, unless they negotiate their contracts the right way and become actual legends, end up in debt or suicided.

Support your local independent scene <3

Cube6392 ,

I’ve been thinking lately about the industrialization of music. Used to be before the gramophone you’d play music in your house. Sometimes you’d be bad. And everyone was fine with it. We just did it to enjoy it. Sometimes you and your neighbors would go to that one barn everyone was gathering in where the best musicians in town would play. They were your neighbors and friends. But now we don’t know our musicians. We don’t make music. We just consume it. I think we need to reclaim music. I think everyone should download DAWs and just… Fucking… Suck. And share their suck with friends and family. What you produce doesn’t have to be polished, or good, it just needs to be tour own.

yuri ,

I buy random instruments at thrift stores and I would HIGHLY recommend folks try it out. Pick up a shitty First Act guitar, or some bongos that were originally sold as a souvenir, or even just a cheapo plastic recorder. Just having a musical instrument or two around the house is a special thing, especially if it’s a cheap one you would let any random guest fuck around with.

I met this guy when I was a teenager and I’ll never forget the first time I saw his house. His living room was full of instruments. 8 and 12 string guitars, pan flutes, cedar flutes, loads of little percussion things, and the drums… That’s how I learned I’m a percussion guy!

He only “knew how” to play a few things, but he would noodle on anything. They were all there primarily for guests, and moreso for the ones who had never even played an instrument before.

Music is absolutely one of those things you can just fuck around with to have fun, and then accidentally end up being really good at.

Bezier ,
@Bezier@suppo.fi avatar

That’s amazing, though I’m not sure people living on the other side of my walls would appreciate it.

yuri ,

Get a bunch of electric instruments and a shitty old analog mixer, then just distribute headphones 😂

Bezier , (edited )
@Bezier@suppo.fi avatar

Have 2 keyboards, but that just doesn’t do it. But if I somehow manage to get a more isolated home, I’ll fucking do it for real.

Cube6392 ,

Do you have an open community space nearby? Maybe you could grab some crappy instruments from reverb and invite walk-ons to just join in. I’ve been surprised in the past how much people who complain about something end up liking the thing they complain about once invited to join in

BlastboomStrice ,
@BlastboomStrice@mander.xyz avatar

all those talented female lyricists and R&B singers who got Thanos snapped out of existence in the late 90s because they didn’t want to sell sex

I dont know much about 90s music😅, could you please share some of those lyricists and singers (or suggest any of their songs)? I’m interested in listening to some of their songs :)

Kinda sad that I wasn’t much aware of this issue…

taanegl ,

…I can’t. You can find them on various features, with among others De La Soul, but the point is they left. You’d have to amass the amount of hip-hop music that I have and draw a timeline where you can see them being phased out.

It’s around the time LL Cool J turned into a sex symbol and when De La had to “add some badass to perlong their life over the drum.”

One of these days I want to do the whole research route, but just so I can juxtapose it to country - which also suffered the same fate, only a half a century earlier.

Capitalism is a slow crawl to mediocrity and exploitation. No culture can really survive it.

BlastboomStrice ,
@BlastboomStrice@mander.xyz avatar

Aw, thank you for your help

within_epsilon ,

I agree with the music industry problems. Luckily I have found some great hip hop and country recently.

taanegl ,

The sad thing? Country used to be rebellious… I mean actually rebellious, none of this Trojan horse nationalism and fascism disguised as “traditionalism”.

We’re talking Johnny Paycheck, Willie Nelson, Waylon Jennings, and the queen her self, Dolly Parton.

But, as of late, I’ve said this:

Shout outs to the women of country, for bringing back the tradition - of writing songs about shooting your spouse in the face.

Keep the dream alive.

within_epsilon ,

Woody Gutherie, Utah Phillips… I guess I am asking what divides county from folk.

taanegl ,

When it comes to hip-hop? There was an enlightenment period where my heart still lies, before the stigma of being a “conscious rapper”, “underground” - or even “backpacker”.

I call this record industry psy-ops, because the music media tried to use it against anyone that didn’t fit the bill. How do I know that?

THEY TRIED TO CALL JAY DILLA A BACKPACKER

Philistines, troglodytes, absolute cretins, scum of the earth. Dear god I hate the record industry.

Incidentally, if you want to go back into the past, I can recommend Quannum Records, the indie label of Blackalicious, Lifesavas, Latyrix and Lyrics Born.

Other than that, Def Jux, Rhymesayers (the mixtapes, get the friggin mixtapes), Stones Throw - ofc. Back when you needed an indie label.

Today we can happily say that bedroom productions will be the saving grace, mostly because it is seperate from the industry, so we do get a lot of great music.

But it also proves the industry is a homogeneous bottleneck.

within_epsilon ,

I have a lot to learn. I appreciate the insight. I listen to Aesop Rock. I remember his work being with Rhymesayers.

bassomitron , in Who needs Skynet

But what if we use AI in robots and have them go out with giant vacuums to suck up all the bad gasses?

My climate change solution consultation services are available for hire anytime.

pastel_de_airfryer ,

Careful! Last time I sarcastically posted a stupid AI idea, within minutes a bunch of venture capitalists tracked me down, broke down my door and threw money at me non stop for hours.

SlopppyEngineer ,

Robots figuring out that without humans releasing gas their job is a lot more efficient could cause a few problems.

Tryptaminev ,

Don’t worry, they will figure out that without humans releasing gasses they have no purpose, so they will cull most of the human population but keep just enough to justify their existence to manage it.

Although you don’t need AI to figure that one out. Just look at the relationships between the US intelligence and military and “terrorist groups”.

ChickenLadyLovesLife ,

Don’t worry, they will figure out that without humans releasing gasses they have no purpose, so they will cull most of the human population but keep just enough to justify their existence to manage it.

Unfortunately this statement also applies to the 1%. And the “just enough” will get smaller and smaller as AI and automation replace humans.

Spacehooks , in Cant have the threat of a good example now can we?

Then complain refugees are coming from said country.

Land_Strider ,

Great excuse to radicalize people for blood thirst and war, isn’t it?

Tiltinyall ,

The nationality with the highest count crossing the border currently is Venezuela. Checks out…

9point6 , in I spent fourteen minutes doing the thing I needed to do. Time for a two hour siesta.

Well I wasn’t expecting to get called out quite like this today

flughoernchen ,

I’m literally on my “well deserved” break rn

SuperRecording , in Probably

I’m tired of these puns

Annoyed_Crabby ,

/tread

UnRelatedBurner , (edited )

I don’t get the initial one, can you explain?

edit: is it because of how many flat tires it needed?

WorkIsSlow ,

Goodyear is a tire brand.

UnRelatedBurner ,

Never would have figured that one out. Haven’t bought tires, and they might not even be where I’m from.

bstix ,

Oh boy…I’ll bring you up to speed.

When I was a kid we used to roll down hills in wheels. Those were the Goodyears.

What do you call 365 condoms? A fucking Goodyear.

Eyck_of_denesle , in Checkmate Valve

That won’t work for long. With the way things are going, we may get expiring accounts after 100 years from your date of birth you registered with.

Evotech ,

That’s not gonna stick, steam can’t remember birthdays. And I’m pretty sure everyone told it multiple times we were born January 1 1901

Eyck_of_denesle ,

I would trust steam wouldn’t do it but epic and Microsoft will

firadin ,

Why would you trust steam? Valve famously invented lootboxes and tried to do the NFT market thing before NFTs were big. They are the strongest DRM on the market. What makes you think they’re not just as greedy?

Wizard_Pope ,
@Wizard_Pope@lemmy.world avatar

Because they are not publicly traded and line go up need jot always apply to them. They will not try and milk every last cent out of you.

c0ber ,

They are the strongest DRM on the market

???

force ,

They are the strongest DRM on the market.

LMAO you have got to be shitting me. It is the bare minimum for DRM, it’s weak as fuck and games protected by Steamworks DRM are cracked almost immediately by casuals

GoodEye8 ,

Valve didn’t invent lootboxes. The concept has physically existed for decades, they’re called trading card packs or kinder eggs or gashapon. The latter is the inspiration for what became known as lootboxes. The first “lootbox” was actually in the Japanese version of MapleStory in 2004 and it spread in eastern markets (because pay to win is more normalized there) and in mobile games. It wasn’t until 2009 when EA added card packs to FIFA. Hard to say if they were inspired by the lootboxes from the east of the insane football trading card market in the west, or by both. It was only after a year and a half later in 2010 when Valve added loot boxes to TF2. So Valve definitely didn’t invent lootboxes, they weren’t even the first in the west to use them. You could argue that they popularized loot boxes but even there is an argument to be made that Overwatch was a much bigger cultural hit than TF2 or CSGO or EAs FIFA games and normalized lootboxes.

I don’t mind the “Valve is bad” narrative, but at least keep your facts straight. The “strongest DRM” is also BS but others have already somewhat covered that part.

NauticalNoodle ,

1901-01-01?

callouscomic , in This pisses me off so much

Also no helmets. Can’t cover the face even when wildly impractical.

CaptPretentious ,

You probably meant motorcycle helmets My mind immediately went to Avengers Endgame. Everyone removing their helmet everytime they had anything to say… Was an awful direction

LANIK2000 ,

I honestly don’t get it. Recently read a manga and they ACTUALLY WORE THEIR BLOODY HELMETS DURING BATTLE! It was glorious! Occasional a stray bullet destroys the helmet sadly…but for a large chunk of it all, they actually fucking wear them! You could still tell who is who by body proportions, dialog and context so that wasn’t really an issue. Also it’s hella dramatic to take off the helmet after battle or when trying to negotiate with someone. It just makes soo much more sense!

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/dc552b49-5d9b-4cbc-9733-d34af39f09c0.jpeg

Annoyed_Crabby ,

Feels like the issue is to not cover the actor’s face because that’s where the perceived value are. Drawn media doesn’t have that issue, so they can do it in a creative way.

LANIK2000 ,

Honestly, I despise the feeling of recognizing an actor. All I can think about in that moment is the other movie’s character and it just breaks immersion while confusing my little ape brain.

Also they do the same in drawn media too. The anime adaptation for example features 0 helmets.

Annoyed_Crabby ,

Yeah, seeing RDJ on other role is so weird after being so recognisable as Ironman. It’s no wonder he wanna end the role to break off from typecasted, ironically at the time where MCU is at its peak.

Also what’s that manga? Seems interesting 👀

LANIK2000 ,

Youjo Senki. And the anime adaptation does not do it justice. It feels like a completely different story xD

GiveOver ,

And when they have sci-fi helmets they have bright lights shining at their face. Surely that would be annoying.

jordanlund , in Watch out, guns. You're next.
@jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar
menemen ,

Don’t want to bodyshame, but man, that is an ugly gun.

acockworkorange ,

It’s the plastic lower, isn’t it?

davel , in for all the "anti-authoritarians" out there
@davel@lemmy.ml avatar

Friedrich Engels, 1872, https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Library:On_authority

Have these gentlemen ever seen a revolution? A revolution is certainly the most authoritarian thing there is. It is the act by which one part of the population imposes its will on the other part by means of rifles, bayonets and cannons — by the most authoritarian means possible; and the victors, if they do not want to have fought in vain, must maintain this rule by means of the terror which their arms inspire in the reactionaries. Would the Paris Commune have lasted a single day if the communards had not used the authority of the armed people against the bourgeoisie? Should we not, on the contrary, reproach them for not having used it enough?

Therefore, we must conclude one of two things: either the anti-authoritarians don’t know what they’re talking about, in which case they are only sowing confusion; or they do know, in which case they are betraying the proletarian movement. In either case, they serve reaction.

Prunebutt ,

People seriously still quote On Authority? 🙄

highduc ,

I found the quote interesting. Is the source material bad? How so?

Prunebutt , (edited )

Engels conflates authority with basically everything: necessity, organization, processes, violence, self-defense, etc.

This video thoroughly debunks the essay

davel ,
@davel@lemmy.ml avatar

An anticommunist breadtuber (but I repeat myself) debunks Engels 😂 Anarchism, unlike Marxism-Leninism, has yet to succeed in the real world for more than a few months. We will welcome anarchists’ lectures once they’ve proven their theory in praxis.

Prunebutt ,

Anything else than ad-hominem attacks and wishful thinking? Like actually engaging with the actual critique, tankie?

davel ,
@davel@lemmy.ml avatar

Anarchism’s lack of success to date is historical fact, and I think that’s reason enough not to take the time to engage with some Burgerland anarchist’s video essay.

Prunebutt ,

Someone’s scared, I see.

What a great theorist Engels must have been, given that you must find ridiculous excuses in order to avoid engaging critically with his work. /s

davel ,
@davel@lemmy.ml avatar

thurston WATCH MY VIDEO YOU COWARD

Prunebutt ,

So, tell me: in what way is necessity, the laws of physics or self-defense the same thing as a monopolization of decision making power?

Sodium_nitride ,

The laws or nature impose required forms of organization upon human society to function. The “double slavery” idea is not some obscure idea. When humans enslave nature to use it for their benefit, nature enslaved humans and imposes specific forms of organisation in turn. The specific form of organization imposed upon a society of large scale industrial producers is large scale centralized organization, in which the will of singular individuals is drowned out.

OurToothbrush ,

He literally just cites abridged arguments from “The problems with on authority”

Read "A Marxist Response to “The problems with on authority” ": hexbear.net/post/2141265

Also yeah, I watched it so everyone else doesn’t have to waste time

Prunebutt ,

Ok, I’ve read it and I’m not impressed. The post on hexbear tries to act as if they were seriously considering the anarchist point of view, they are constantly being disingenuous.

The biggest point of critique againstEngels is that he is effectively strawmanning anti-authoritarians, by using a definition of authority that differs from the anarchist definition in a fundamental way. While the hexbear author acknowledges that fact in the beginning and seems to take the (IMHO flawed) definition of the anarchist’s critique at face value, he repeats the same mistake that Engels did and takes Engels’ definition as the only logical one.

Sodium_nitride ,

Authority as indirect or direct force (essentially the engels) argument is the only logical way of definition authority, as the hexbear post argues using the example of the armed mugger. The definition of authority as blind obedience (as defined by the anarchist) is completely flawed in that it doesn’t account for the source of the blind obidelience and isn’t easy to measure.

OurToothbrush ,

In addition to not making sense from a historical development or material analysis perspective

OurToothbrush , (edited )

The post on hexbear tries to act as if they were seriously considering the anarchist point of view, they are constantly being disingenuous.

I think you’re confusing dismissing your viewpoint after engaging with it in a serious way with being disingenuous

The biggest point of critique againstEngels is that he is effectively strawmanning anti-authoritarians, by using a definition of authority that differs from the anarchist definition in a fundamental way.

You mean the definition of authority that the video you linked as a rebuttal is based on? Because that is the one that is being critiqued in a Marxist Response

he repeats the same mistake that Engels did and takes Engels’ definition as the only logical one

The argument is that the alternate definition that the anarchist proposes is incoherent.

Prunebutt ,

They aren’t engaging with the definition in a serious way. That is my point.

I follow a different definition, that’s more complete, IMHO: Authority is the monopolization of power from the hands of the many to the hands of the few. With that definition, which is compatible with the bulk of anarchist theory, “On authority” is nothing, but the incoherent ramblings of someone with too much personal beef.

The hexbear author not once seriously engages with any of the two viewpoints given in the anarchist rebuttal. They give this example of a robbery, where they try to reach a point with the anarchist’s definition and call it absurd. The only reason, they do so, is begause in the middle of their argument, they switch definitions back to Engels’ definition. If I change the preconditions in the middle of my logical chain, shit will get goofy. Duh.

You mean the definition of authority that the video you linked as a rebuttal is based on? Because that is the one that is being critiqued.

No. The video and the essay huse different definitions. You didn’t watch the -ideo, or didn’t listen to it, properly.

The argument is that the alternate definition that the anarchist proposes is incoherent.

The hexbear author fails to do so and doesn’t properly represent the anarchist’s essay’s point of view.

Engels created a straw-man. No anti-authoritarian thinks that necessity, or self-defense is authority. Therefore, they don’t argue against necessity, or self-defense.

OurToothbrush ,

I follow a different definition, that’s more complete, IMHO: Authority is the monopolization of power from the hands of the many to the hands of the few.

Okay:

  1. then don’t link a video to defend your point that you don’t agree with
  2. then Marxist Leninist projects meet your definition of anti-authoritarian?

They give this example of a robbery, where they try to reach a point with the anarchist’s definition and call it absurd. The only reason, they do so, is begause in the middle of their argument, they switch definitions back to Engels’ definition.

The robber example rebuts the claim by the most popular anarchist rebuttal that authority is established by unquestioning obedience. Did you not read the anarchist rebuttal?

This feels like a basic misreading of the text.

No. The video and the essay huse different definitions. You didn’t watch the -ideo, or didn’t listen to it, properly.

No, you don’t get to claim this after your failure to read, I spent 45 minutes that I will never get back listening to inane shit like him claiming “steam isn’t authority” without understanding how the circumstances of prime mover operation is socially created and influences downstream production processes, or “delegates and representatives are different actually, silly Engels” It was the same inane failures of reading along similar thrusts to the article.

The hexbear author fails to do so and doesn’t properly represent the anarchist’s essay’s point of view.

How would you know? You didn’t fucking read it, if you didn’t source the argument of “authority is created through unquestioning obedience”!

Engels created a straw-man. No anti-authoritarian thinks that necessity, or self-defense is authority.

There are literally those who think self defense is authority but justifiable authority, did you read the “Problems with “On Authority””? No?

Prunebutt ,
  1. The video used the same definition. I never claimed it was congruent with the essay on the anarchist library.
  2. Lol, no. Power was incredibly monopolized by the bolsheviki and their Komisars.

I read the anarchist rebuttal. It made clear that force and authority are different things. The robbery example would not be authority, but force, according to the anarchist essay. The hexbear author didn’t understand that, or misrepresented the anarchist.

It’s ok, if you didn’t get the video. How is steam a monopolization of power?

Do you know the difference between a free and an imperative mandate? If not, then you don’t understand the anarchist’s critique.

How would you know? You didn’t fucking read it, if you didn’t source the argument of “authority is created through unquestioning obedience”!

I did read both the anarchist’s rebuttal and the hexbear comment (as far as I could stomach). I don’t completely agree with the anarchist’s rebuttal, which is why I didn’t share it. The hexbear bloke didn’t genuinely take the anarchist’s proposal seriously, as I’ve explained several times now.

There are literally those who think self defense is authority but justifiable authority, did you read the “Problems with “On Authority””? No?

That’s not what the essay’s author claims. The essay’s author doesn’t view self-defense as “blind obedience”, hence they don’t think it is authority. Please stop misrepresenting stuff, it’s getting exhausting.

It’s no use arguing, if we both don’t accept each other’s definition of authority. You claim that the anarchist definition is incomplete, which you try to prove with Engels’ definition. I say that no anti-authoritarian uses the same definition as Engels and the cycle continues.

Just admit that you don’t want to consider anarchist perspectives. It would save you a lot of time.

OurToothbrush , (edited )

Lol, no. Power was incredibly monopolized by the bolsheviki and their Komisars.

Okay so the first problem is that you’re basing your ideas around the soviet union on popular western media and not an actual understanding of how the system worked.

Here is a fun rabbit hole to go down… how did too much horizontalism lead to a failure to cyberize the planned economy ala cybersyn?

The video used the same definition. I never claimed it was congruent with the essay on the anarchist library.

Timestamp.

It’s ok, if you didn’t get the video. How is steam a monopolization of power?

The decisions made regarding the nature and circumstances of operation impose restrictions on all operatives in the system, ergo decisions made on a local level affect everyone. It is the monopolization of the use of literal power (and torque) unless you reject specialization, it is the imposition of authority. And rejecting specialization on a practical societal level requires a massive imposition of authority.

Do you know the difference between a free and an imperative mandate?

Yes, are you asking a ML if they don’t understand the difference between strong and weak delegates? Y’all know democratic centralism is our thing right? Which is a much more thorough application of the principle.

The robbery example would not be authority, but force, according to the anarchist essay.

LOL. Someone pointing a gun at you and giving you instructions isn’t authority? It isn’t the monopolization of violence in this context?

The essay’s author doesn’t view self-defense as “blind obedience”, hence they don’t think it is authority.

The essays author establishes that some anarchists define self defense as a justifiable exercise in authority.

You claim that the anarchist definition is incomplete, which you try to prove with Engels’ definition.

No, the argument is that the anarchist definition isn’t grounded in materialism.

I say that no anti-authoritarian uses the same definition as Engels and the cycle continues.

That is because Engels is a dialectical materialist and convinced that definitions grounded in dialectical materialism are superior- his problem is that anarchists are being idealist in their definition, and that they should embrace a more coherent definition of it.

Just admit that you don’t want to consider anarchist perspectives.

I spent a couple years reading anarchist literature, and turned to reading marxist lit when the anarchists started giving unsatisfactory explanations.

This might be your pipeline. But I would suggest avoiding wasting time on YouTube.

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

I spent a couple years reading anarchist literature, and turned to reading marxist lit when the anarchists started giving unsatisfactory explanations.

Are you me?!

OurToothbrush ,

I think that’s a pretty common experience in strongly anticommunist societies

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

I agree, post-radicalization Anarchism is a comforting and easy position to adopt, because western Anarchists tend to rail against Marxism, which fits with liberal anticommunism.

Donkter ,

On authority is used to justify the fact that many communist movements of the past turned into brutal dictatorships and that “it’s fine actually that mao starved half of China because you can’t have a revolution without being authoritarian”.

The actual paper is short and kind of stupid. What Engels was arguing in that short essay with a ridiculously outsized influence was that he was technically correct (the best kind) that anarchists are silly because any type of government someone could propose inevitably involves one person imposing their will on another like your quote says.

Really what Engels (who was a prominent communist thinker) was doing was fucking up any attempts at communist organization because now 1/3 of communists think that brutal authoritarianism is based and necessary for a revolution.

Sodium_nitride ,

This is the kind of analysis you get when you have no understanding how organizations work. Mao was not some lone actor who miraculously acquired supreme power, and then starved “half of China” for shits and giggles apparently.

Anyone familiar with the way that Mao operated knows that he made frequent use of the mass line and mass mobilisation. He also made use of the collective leadership of the party, and was often frustrated by their lack of cooperation with him (at one point even threatening to launch a revolution against the party). Even anti-communists who have at least studied China in detail know that the lone dictator nonsense is well, nonsense. It is just great man theory of history. A society is made of many moving parts.

As to the failures of the glf, they were entirely technical. The rush to industrialise in a decentralised manner left agricultural production vulnerable to poor weather conditions. This was compounded with the fact that much of the country at the time had poor transportation and communications, and ruled by corrupt cardie, leading to a disastrous lack of effective coordination across the nation. It is only with higher level organization today that countries can mount effective disaster responses. The glf proves the opposite of your point.

yogthos ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

Just because you have trouble comprehending something doesn’t make it stupid.

Cowbee , (edited )
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Yes, Engels does a pretty good job of explaining why “authoritarian” complaints are usually explained purely by vibes.

Prunebutt ,

Lol, where do you get all that straw from?

Prunebutt ,

He mostly explained how he actually didn’t really have a proper grasp of what authority actually means. He conflated them with a lot of things without actually making sense. I’m surprised why “On authority” is so widely known.

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

He has a great grasp on how often Anarchists operate mainly on vibes, even if in practice when they get into power they still implement some form of authoritarianism, such as the labor camps in Revolutionary Catalonia.

Prunebutt , (edited )

Sorry, but claiming that just shows that someone didn’t engage at all with anarchist theory.

Edit - addendum: even if this wasn’t true back then in Engel’s days: Still quoting him today ignores all that anarchist theory on power that happened since then.

Cowbee , (edited )
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

I have, I used to lean more Anarchist, until I read more Marxist theory. Concepts like ParEcon were extremely interesting, and could be applied to both an Anarchist system or a Worker State. I am aware of Anarchist principles of horizontal organization, and I think they are quite beautiful, but I am also aware that Anarchist critique of Marxism falls flat almost all of the time.

Prunebutt ,

What kind of Marxism? Marx’s Marxism, or that body of theory by his followers that even Marx denounced, i.e. ML, MLM, etc.

Anarchist’s analysis of power has been spot-on ever since Bakunin predicted the bureaucratic dictatorship that Russia became under the Bolsheviki.

Cowbee , (edited )
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

How exactly would Marx denounce Lenin? Or Mao? That’s a supremely goofy statement.

Bakunin was not correct in analyzing power. If saying “states have issues” counts as being “correct” enough to only approve a system that has only ever lasted a few years at a time, you’re intentionally missing the forest for the trees. The USSR was by no means perfect, but it was history’s first true Socialist state and managed to prove that Socialism does work.

Prunebutt ,

While he didn’t specifically denounce Lenin or Mao, he himself exclaimed once, reacting to self-appointed Marxists: “All I know is that I’m not a marxist.” That’s what I was referencing.

Are you sure you read anarchist theory? Bakunin didn’t claim that states “had issues”. Here’s a quote, for example:

That is because no state, not even the most republican and democratic, not even the pseudo-popular state contemplated by Marx, in essence represents anything but government of the masses from above downward, by an educated and thereby privileged minority which supposedly understands the real interests of the people better than the people themselves.

The USSR was a state-capitalist state, where the bourgeoisy was replaced with bureaucrats - as predicted by Bakunin. If it were truly socialist, it wouldn’t have taken away power from the soviets and Lenin wouldn’t have abolished unions in favour of his high-modernist ideas.

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

That’s a bit ridiculous, with respect to the Marx claim. Marx was attacking Dogmatism, not his own ideas. Post-Marx’s death, people following his ideas understandably called themselves Marxists not because they worshipped Marx, but because they were working with his ideas!

As for Bakunin, he’s a pure idealist here. His rejection of the state is based on the notion that the elected cannot represent the will of the people because they are not the people. This, of course, is wrong, as it assumes the people do not want someone managing higher-order decisions! Letting vast improvements in material conditions be held back because workers had representatives is why Anarchism has failed to last very long.

As for the USSR being “State Capitalist,” that referred to the NEP. Judging Leftist movements by their structure as compared to perfect Marxism in a vacuum without considering the historical context is deeply silly idealism. You would have to do some heavy justification for why you believe a worker state to form a new class that isn’t just vibes.

Prunebutt ,

I’m not claiming he denounced his own ideas, but rather the people claiming to represent marxism. I’m not claiming that anyone worshipped Marx, but that they misunderstood his work.

No, sorry. Claiming that a state can work to not enslave the masses, just because “the right people” are in charge is the actual idealism.

Your claim about representation is wrong, too. Sorry. Anarchist regions have collapsed due to external military pressure. You should read a book on how well the material conditions improved in Catalonia. Sorry, your claims about anarghist regions failing to improve their material condition runs counter to reality and to the actual Marxist theory (that only the people can free themselves, etc.)

The whole planned economy was bogus. What do you think a class is?

Again, you claim that you know anything about anarchist theory and show time and time again that you don’t have the slightest of an idea.

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Yes, all of the Marxists have failed to understand Marx, it is in fact Prunebutt who resurrected Marx and got him to denounce everyone who used his ideas.

That’s a deeply silly statement, please explain why you think Lenin misunderstood Marx.

I believe that elected representatives can represent those that elect them if you don’t have Capitalism. Saying you can’t have that and just saying “no, you’re the idealist” is unproductive and goes nowhere.

Material Conditions did improve in Catalonia! Never said they didn’t, that’s a claim you lied about me saying, though I’ll let it slide this time. A lot did work, but a lack of proper organization led to losing to outside pressure.

Again, you claim that you know anything about anarchist and Marxist theory and show time and time again that you don’t have the slightest of an idea.

Prunebutt ,

please explain […]

No. You’ve shown that you don’t argue in good faith, at least with the paragraph above that request. Good luck with your vanguard strategy.

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

I do argue in good faith, this entire time I have asked you to elaborate and you’ve ducked and weaved, now that you can’t duck anywhere else you run.

Good luck wishing for leftist movement to happen, surely another faithful will make it happen!

Prunebutt ,

I do argue in good faith

Yes, all of the Marxists have failed to understand Marx, it is in fact Prunebutt who resurrected Marx and got him to denounce everyone who used his ideas.

sure you do /s

OurToothbrush ,

That seems like sarcasm not bad faith, there is a difference.

Prunebutt ,

They misrepresented my point. Enough that I don’t care to continue.

OurToothbrush ,

Marx denouncing dogmatism meaning Marx hates MLs is a really incorrect point. You’d have to think MLs are dogmatists to believe it.

Prunebutt ,

I didn’t claim Marx denounced dogmatism.

OurToothbrush ,

That is what you are referring to though when you talk about Marx not being a Marxist.

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Am I not allowed to make a joke? Your point was that since Marx dissavowed some self-proclaimed Marxists during his lifetime, that those that followed him and took on the moniker must also not understand his ideas. You have to admit this is silly and not logically supported, right? That’s like saying burgers are chicken sandwiches, because both have meat in buns.

Prunebutt ,

You are allowed. You overshot and now I don’t want to engage anymore. If you want to discuss, adjust your tone, next time.

Sodium_nitride ,

You are wrong on the factual level.

The role of money in soviet society was always subordinate to material production. Money was necessary only due to the technical limitations of planning a vast economy without sufficient computing power. The sphere of commodity exchange was supressed as much as possible. Much of the soviet citizen’s consumption was either heavily subsidised or free. This went all the way from food, transportation to even fancy entertainment (like spas and theatres). In fact, the heavy distortion of prices in soviet society is often cited as a reason for its eventual collapse.

Therefore, calling the soviet union state capitalist is absurd. Capitalism requires a dominant bourgeois class, the operation of the law of value and the anarchy of production. None of these elements were present in the soviet union.

yogthos ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

How exactly would Marx denounce Lenin? Or Mao?

You’d know if you read anarchist theory 😂

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Oh duh, just gotta ask the Anarchist necromancers

Fidel_Cashflow , (edited )
@Fidel_Cashflow@lemmy.ml avatar

Marx died March 14th, 1883

Mao was born December 26th, 1893

Was Karl Marx a time traveler?

Prunebutt ,

Yes. /j

yogthos ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

The problem with anarchist theory is that it demonstrably doesn’t work. A theory that can’t be put into practice is not worth the paper its written on.

Prunebutt ,

Sorry, but you obviously have no idea of modern anarchist theory.

yogthos ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

neither do anarchists though, so I don’t feel alone in that regard

Prunebutt ,

Wow, sick burn, homie. /s

yogthos ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

cope

Prunebutt ,

Have fun doing your idealist vanguard LARP. Thinking that the “right” people in the government will somehow lead to socialism.

yogthos ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

Aww somebody’s projecting. I love how you deny the reality of socialism that has been achieved in the real world while accusing me of idealism. Peak anarchist logic right there. 🤡

Prunebutt ,

Sorry, we might have a different definition of socialism going on here.

To me, socialism is when the workers ownsthe means of subsistence, not when the government does stuff.

yogthos ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

when you definitely understand what a government is

Prunebutt ,

When yod definetly understand how power works.

yogthos ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

I do, that’s why I don’t spew nonsense the way you do.

Prunebutt ,

You would be the first tankie to do so.

yogthos ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar
Prunebutt ,

Great meme bro. Did Hakim pick that out for you?

yogthos ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

That’s right, being a foul tankie, I’m completely incapable of independent thought and simply do what my betters tell me like an automaton that I am. Only enlightened dronies are capable of truly independent thinking.

OurToothbrush ,

idealist

Mfw someone trying to argue that their ideology is better doesn’t understand their own ideology, or the idealist/dialectical materialist split, lmao

Prunebutt ,

Authcoms have failed to realize that anarchism is materialist at least since Stalin.

OurToothbrush , (edited )

Please share an explicitly diamat anarchist text from the pre-kruschev era

yogthos ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

it’s so materialist that the only thing it managed to produce in the past century is a lot of hot air

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Dead and buried.

OurToothbrush ,

Let me guess, you’ve read “The problems with on authority”, but haven’t read "A Marxist Response to “The problems with on authority” " ?

Here you go: hexbear.net/post/2141265

Prunebutt ,

Lol, not dipping into that cesspool.

OurToothbrush ,

Hey, I stepped into an anarchist space to read the most popular critique of on authority, you can step into a non-sectarian left space to read a critique of the critique.

yogthos ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

To this day, nobody’s actually articulated any counterpoints to it, so yeah.

Prunebutt ,

Just cause you chose to ignore the well-founded critique, doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist.

yogthos ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

If the critique was well founded we’d see it applied in practice in the real world. The fact that anarchists aren’t able to put their ideas into practice shows that they can be safely binned.

Prunebutt ,

Libertarian socialists have come closer to achieving socialism than any state in the ML tradition.

yogthos ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

LMFAO

Prunebutt ,

Xi will give the means of production back to the workers yany day now* I can feel it. /s

yogthos ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar
Prunebutt ,

Will this be implemented before or after they allow non-state-run unions to exist?

yogthos ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

socialism is when non-state-run unions 🤣

Prunebutt ,

Do you understand the difference between necessary and sufficient conditions?

yogthos ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

I do, but clearly you don’t.

Prunebutt ,

Wow! Your mommy will be so proud of her little smartie revolutionary boy!

yogthos ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

lmfao took you half an hour to come up with this “comeback” 😂

Prunebutt ,

Sorry, not sorry. had to touch grass for a bit to get the foul taste of tankie opinion out of my mouth.

Maybe you should do so, too?

yogthos ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

I mean you clearly have a compulsion to keep talking to me, so just can’t get enough of that foul tankie opinion I guess. 😂

OurToothbrush ,

Oh look ageism based insults

Prunebutt ,

Lol, that’s not ageism. I respect kids saying dumb stuff way more than you.

ZombiFrancis ,

If memorizing age of consent laws by region is achieving socialism, then sure.

Prunebutt ,

Please research what libertarian socialism means.

AmosBurton_ThatGuy , in I need to survive 3 days without pooping..
@AmosBurton_ThatGuy@lemmy.ca avatar

Infinite poop.

You sit on the toilet to poop, but the poop never stops coming out of your butt. You have to start flushing the toilet every two minutes to keep up. You try to pinch your butt closed but that makes your insides hurt. The poop accelerates. You call 911. The paramedics call for doctors. The doctors call for specialists. The story trends on Twitter. You turn down talk show appearances. Your septic tank fails. People form a cult. Your toilet is finished. Volunteers arrive with buckets and shovels. You are completely used to the smell.

The poop accelerates. You are moved to a stepladder with a hole in the top step. The poop accelerates. The shovelers abandon the buckets and shovel directly out the window. The poop accelerates. A candlelight vigil forms around your house. One of the workers falls over and can’t free himself. The poop accelerates. A priest knocks over the stepladder and tackles you out the window. You land in the pile. The poop accelerates.

The force now propels you forward and upward. Vigil goers grab at your legs. The poop ignites from their candles. The Facebook live event hits 1 million viewers. The poop accelerates. You are 30 feet in the air. The fire engulfs the vigil and your house. 60 feet. The poop accelerates. The torrent underneath you is deafening. 5 million Facebook live viewers. You try to close up shop but your butthole disintegrated long ago. 120 feet up. Your house explodes. The poop accelerates. 1000 feet. You are now tracked on radar. You try to change your angle of ascent but you should have thought of that way earlier.

The poop accelerates. 4,000 feet. NORAD upgrades to DEFCON 3. Concentric circles of fire engulf your city. The poop accelerates. You have broken the sound barrier. 30,000 feet. You no longer take in enough oxygen to sustain consciousness. 60,000 feet. CNN is reporting on all the world records you’ve broken. 200,000 feet. You are no longer alive. The poop accelerates. Your body disintegrates but your poop contrail remains. NASA can no longer track you. You break the light-speed barrier and we can no longer bear witness.

The poop accelerates. Forever.

SatansMaggotyCumFart ,

Fucking shitposters.

Darkard , in Never forget what they took from us...

I want to play my character, not just play towards whatever the optimal setup is

FenrirIII ,
@FenrirIII@lemmy.world avatar

I strive to ultimately be able to tank enemies and kill them with weak weapons like forks.

Darkard ,

If you want to be the Cutlery Colossus then you can

iiGxC , in It's honestly impressive how many areas they negatively affect

You don’t get to the top without killing more animals each year than the total number of humans that have ever existed 💪😎😤

jelloeater85 , in Windows 7
@jelloeater85@lemmy.world avatar

What the fuck is wrong with you… No… Don’t you dishonor my house like that…

Juice64 , in feeling old now?
@Juice64@lemmy.world avatar

I’m baby-faced which keeps me sane but that resolve was shook a couple days ago when an 18 year old (that was born the year I graduated high school) found out my age and said I was old enough to be his dad 😔

Appoxo ,
@Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Critical hit.

Juice64 ,
@Juice64@lemmy.world avatar

It was man, I even told my wife how hard it hit me when I got home lol 😭

cyborganism ,

Kid wasn’t even born when 9/11 happened.

user224 ,
@user224@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

In a few years you’ll think of how young you were when this 18 year old told you you could be their dad instead of grandpa like you’ll be told in those few years.

Time scares me. I fear it.

Entropywins ,

Times gonna happen whether you fear it or not, friend.

BruceTwarzen ,

Having. A babyface is kinda weird. 20 year olds talk to me like i had any idea what they are talking about. I'm always like: haha yeah no, i'm actually old.
The other day i was standing in line and there was a family behind me. The mom did some Smalltalk with me and just for the fact that they had kids, i talked to her like i would to an old person. Like she was giving me some weird advice for some reason. Then i put one and one together and realised that they had a child when they were 20 and he was now 10-ish and they are actually 10 years younger than me.

eldavi ,

i’m a millennial and i have family members who are younger than i am and they are grandparents several times over now. lol

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