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Dave ,
@Dave@lemmy.nz avatar

Me as an instance admin sitting here reading about how Lemmy doesn’t have trolls and Russian bots, while I’m in a chat with other instance admins and mods where we need to actively coordinate to fight the trolls and Russian bots 😐

awwwyissss ,

Yeah… OP is blind to the massive Kremlin and CCP propaganda problem here in the Fediverse.

AmosBurton_ThatGuy ,
@AmosBurton_ThatGuy@lemmy.ca avatar

After hexbear got defederated from most of the major instances, the fucking losers just make alts on different instances so they can continue defending that propaganda filled shithole. Now .ml seems like the new worst, no matter what you do these no-life losers will find a way to spread their bullshit.

Takes much more effort to try and stop them than it does for these losers to make alts unfortunately.

FiniteBanjo ,

I was under the impression that the .ml admins actually promote them because it’s run by people from Hexbear.

Ilovethebomb ,

It’s a bit more mask on, and there’s a few legit communities there, as opposed to Hexbear where the entire instance has a stated goal.

But it’s pretty bad.

RandomGen1 ,

Ml is run by the creators of Lemmy, and hexbear is well… Not. Hexbear made their own fork of lemmy a long time ago and only in the past year or so have they been actually able to federate at all. I don’t see the creators of Lemmy going through all that effort to hide their identities if they were actually running hexbear behind the scenes

rambling_lunatic ,

Confusing the bear with 'grad

Cowbee , (edited )
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Hexbear wasn’t federated to begin with for many instances, and Lemmy.ml hasn’t really changed as a result of Hexbear getting defederated by servers like Lemmy.world and Lemmy.ca, because Hexbear has a more secluded user-base. Hexbear intentionally tries to be careful with who they federate with.

awwwyissss ,

They’re not just some losers sitting on their mom’s basements, they’re paid or programmed to spread disinformation and division.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

By a con­tin­u­ous shift­ing of rhetor­i­cal focus, the ene­mies are at the same time too strong and too weak.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Somewhere in Moscow, there’s a big red phone that connects to its counterpart in Beijing, where Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping discuss the latest attempts to influence an indie reddit spin-off with an elaborate network of Markov Chain LLMs producing comments like “I wish y’all wouldn’t be so nakedly racist towards people from other countries.”

sunzu ,

Are you denying these operations happen?

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Am I denying the existence of a branch of international foreign intelligence dedicated specifically to Lemmy.world?

Yes. 100%. Absolutely.

It’s pure paranoia.

ericatty ,

Thank you for your service! (sounds sarcastic, is not)

UndercoverUlrikHD ,

The matrix admin group or a different one?

Dave ,
@Dave@lemmy.nz avatar

The matrix one

TwigletSparkle ,

I’m yet to see any in the last year personally, so I guess it’s working?

Dave ,
@Dave@lemmy.nz avatar

That’s honestly pretty amazing that you’ve been here a year and haven’t seen a troll! Though you’re on an instance with a very active and determined admin, there is definitely a difference in how much you see between instances because of how removals work.

TwigletSparkle ,

picking the right instance seems to be half the battle for users

Ilovethebomb ,

You guys are pretty proactive about blocking and defederating bad faith instances, or even ones not doing enough to deal with bad actors. You were one of the first to defederate Hexbear, and I think you even defederated world at one point?

Cowbee , (edited )
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Hexbear defederated blahaj.zone, actually. Here is the original thread going over why.

Ilovethebomb ,

The fuck is a chaser?

Objection ,

A chaser is someone who fetishizes and objectifies trans people.

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Here’s a good reddit thread over on r/asktransgender.

Chasers are dangerous to the trans community and turn people into fetish objects, rather than recognizing them as people. It ignores the desires of trans individuals who wish to be seen as the gender they identify with and explicitly chases trans individuals for their being trans.

Ie, a transwoman is pursued for being a transwoman and not for being a woman.

Cryophilia ,

Hey that was me back when I had a kbin account. I’m the account in the screenshot.

That was a direct response to someone asking if I would have sex with a trans man. I got accused of being a chaser for saying “sure, I guess, pre-transition” (the first part) and being a transphobe for saying “but I’m not sexually attracted to dicks” (the second part). Note those two accusations are more or less mutually exclusive, but it doesn’t matter because they’re both deeply, incredibly stupid accusations. The mods and admins of blahaj pointed out how incredibly stupid the accusations were, and some people didn’t like being called stupid, so they went back to hexbear. And continued to be stupid.

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

To be clear, being a chaser is transphobic.

Cryophilia ,

Sure, depending on how you define chaser, but it’s not applicable here.

Iapar ,

How is it not transphile?

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Because chasers undermine the expressed gender identity of trans individuals for the sake of their own sexual pleasure. Calling it “transphilic” is just semantical wordplay that dismisses the inherently predatory nature of chasers.

Iapar ,

I don’t get it.

How is it undermining that and not affirming? I mean to fetishise a group is wrong, I get that and that is also my opinion but if they want to fuck a transwoman they want that because she is a woman which affirms the womanhood?

And the point is how is it transhate if you like the trans aspect specifically. Doesn’t make sense to me.

It is not a wordplay it is what those words mean. Phobic means something like hate or fear and phile means something like love or attraction.

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

No, chasers are people that specifically fetishize transwomen or transmen for being trans.

Iapar ,

Hmm okay. But the I still don’t understand how it is transphobic.

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

You don’t understand how undermining someone’s gender identity by focusing on them being trans over them being their expressed gender is transphobic?

Iapar ,

No.

Edit: as phobic means you want to get away from something or don’t want it to exist. Fetishising is the exact opposite.

If someone is arachnophobic that doesn’t mean he wants to fuck a spider or undermine the identity of the spider. That someone wants the spider be gone because it is a spider.

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Fetishizing is also phobic.

Iapar ,

This whole exchange could be more productive if you could explain your opinions.

Ilovethebomb ,

They’re arguing that being sexually attracted to something is a phobia, the definition of which is having an irrational fear of something.

Do you really think this person has the ability to string enough words together to justify their opinion?

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Did you read the original reddit thread? Chasers are dangerous to the trans community. It isn’t about being attracted to trans individuals, it’s about specifically seeking them out for being trans and fetishizing them being trans.

Can you not see how this may look if you are the trans person in this relationship?

Ilovethebomb ,

What do you think the word “phobia” means, just out of interest?

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

I’m not stupid, I know it means “fear of.” Do you think Homophobes are “afraid” of gay people? What abiut transphobes? In the context of bigotry, phobia is used to refer to invalidating or undermining ones sexuality, gender identity, etc.

Literally talk to a trans person, or just read through that thread, it isn’t difficult.

Ilovethebomb ,

Do you think Homophobes are “afraid” of gay people?

Yes.

What abiut transphobes?

Also yes.

In the context of bigotry, phobia is used to refer to invalidating or undermining ones sexuality, gender identity, etc.

That is the outcome of the irrational fear people feel towards those people.

Someone attracted to trans people because they are trans would be transphilic, not transphobic.

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Talk to trans people about how they feel about lumping anti-trans views into the “transphile” category because rather than being hated outright, chasers simply prey on trans individuals and undermine their gender identity in a sickeningly fetishizing way.

Just touch grass.

Ilovethebomb ,

This is the most bizarre stand I’ve seen someone take online, and that’s really saying something. Phobic means an irrational fear or disgust off something, these people are clearly neither afraid or disgusted of trans people.

Iapar ,

I hoped so.

AVincentInSpace ,

You’re really gonna have to start writing more than one sentence per comment if you want anyone here to know what the fuck you’re on about

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

I wrote a lot more than 1 sentence in the beginning and linked a good thread with a bunch of trans individuals discussing said topic. They aren’t adding anything, just playing semantics with philic vs phobic.

Ilovethebomb ,

www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/phobia

It doesn’t sound like they’re afraid to me?

mathemachristian ,

Do you see why fetishizing black people for their skin coloris racist? Its similar to that.

Iapar ,

I can see that. But that wouldn’t be “negrophobic” either. Not everything negativ in the context of a group is phobia.

Ilovethebomb ,

The poor thing thinks words mean whatever they decide they mean. They’re not capable of explaining their position in an intelligent way, either.

Ilovethebomb ,

Someone upvoted this idiotic take, and whoever it was, I’m disappointed in you.

Ilovethebomb ,

It sounds like the polar opposite to me.

Omniraptor , (edited )

To use an analogy, imagine you’re fat and trying to lose weight. Someone admits they are attracted to you, “sure, as long as you’re still fat”. Can you see how this would not be a good basis for a healthy relationship? You could even say it is a sign of a “chubby chaser”. Likewise for transness.

Also, people are overly sensitive because being denied full/legitimate relationships is a frequent pain point for trans people (esp trans women). The classic trope is the boyfriend who will take you on dates but refuse to introduce you to his friends/relatives.

Omniraptor , (edited )

So yeah, I can see why a queer friendly instance would defederate an instance whose admins promote/defend that sort of rhetoric. Hexbear might have jumped the gun (as I told them at the time- the turnaround time was less than 24 hours and the head admin had no chance to respond) but the blahaj admins weren’t great either

Cryophilia ,

You could even say it is a sign of a “chubby chaser”. Likewise for transness.

Yeah, if you’re deeply stupid. Or, as you suggested, so traumatized by life that you have no understanding of normal human interrepationships. Just because you are open to the idea of having sex with a fat person, that does not make you a chubby chaser. That’s not at all what that means.

In your analogy, the proper response for the fat person would be “that makes me feel bad” and NOT “you are a bad person”. Take some ownership for your feelings. People are allowed to have sexual preferences. That is 100% normal. If it’s triggering for you, then it’s on you to manage your response, not lash out.

Also, people are overly sensitive

Understatement of the year. I think we need to acknowledge that some trans communities can get extremely toxic. Woe unto you if you get caught in their crosshairs for whatever reason. Sure, this may stem from trauma or transphobia/discrimination, but we shouldn’t pretend it’s not a thing.

My pet theory is that trans people are excluded from so many groups that groups of trans people by necessity get very insular. And insular groups tend towards shittiness, almost universally.

Omniraptor , (edited )

It’s not just being attracted, it’s being attracted conditional on the person having x characteristic (that they might not even want to have). That’s the very definition of fetishizing/objectifying and it’s not toxic to criticize it.

I will grant that this is more of an issue for relationships than for hookups etc. As a wise woman once told me- chasers are gross, but they also help pay her rent, so really it’s impossible to say if they’re bad or not.

Cryophilia ,

It’s not just being attracted, it’s being attracted conditional on the person having x characteristic

Wait

So literally every single heterosexual or homosexual person is a “chaser”??

Omniraptor ,

Potentially yes, they can exhibit similar patterns. In fact lots of cishet women have also complained about being objectified because their (potential) dating partner is attracted not to the whole package but to a specific part of them- it’s a classic feminist talking point. The “chaser” label gets added when the person being objectified is marked as deviant in some way. But it’s def not just cishet men who are capable of it.

Cryophilia ,

Wow.

AVincentInSpace , (edited )

Some people like being fat. Some people like being women.

A person who likes bobs and vagene entering a committed relationship with a trans man would be toxic. Ditto for a person who likes fat people entering a committed relationship with someone who is trying to lose weight. That said, firstly, I don’t see anything wrong with a one-night stand in either of those scenarios, which is what the original question was, and secondly, more importantly, you’d have to stretch really hard to say that a person who’s into a little chub and a person who’s perfectly happy having a little chub entering a committed relationship is in any way problematic. OP is into women. If anyone unironically tries to call someone a pussy-chaser I’m going to recommend them for commitment.

OP saying he’d have sex with a trans man who hadn’t transitioned yet is no different than a lover of booty saying they’d have sex with someone who hadn’t lost weight yet. Sure, it might be a little confusing and/or disheartening for his potential sexual partner to be told that he likes them for the one aspect of themselves that they’re working to change, but if it’s only for one night, and that person otherwise has a good support network, and, most importantly, it’s two consenting adults, I don’t see the harm.

Omniraptor ,

Ok I went and looked it up, the original question in the screenshot was about specifically dating and specifically trans men. Not a one night stand, and not someone who likes being a woman

Ilovethebomb ,

Oh, hey Dave. Small world huh?

Dave ,
@Dave@lemmy.nz avatar

👋

Enkrod ,
@Enkrod@feddit.de avatar

Thank you for your service

Archer ,

Welcome to IT. If everything is on fire, they ask why you’re even here, and if everything is ready for the fire and there’s nothing left to do, they also ask why you’re even here

A_Very_Big_Fan ,

I haven’t seen much of it at all in my 1+ year here, so y’all are doing a great job :3

STRIKINGdebate2 , (edited )
@STRIKINGdebate2@lemmy.world avatar

Wtf. Why didn’t you mention the cringe lord emperor striker?!

Edit: using my mod powers to get attention.

helpImTrappedOnline ,

Leaching on to mod powers to grab attention, for what purpose, I do not know.

STRIKINGdebate2 ,
@STRIKINGdebate2@lemmy.world avatar

To prevent the all powerful cum tsunami from wiping us all out

helpImTrappedOnline ,

Nah, that one seems too funny to miss

SirSamuel ,

Put me in the screenshot

militaryintelligence ,

Not me though thanks

Steamymoomilk ,

The elon musk mindset. Lmao

Godric ,

Thank you god-modereor for showing us the way… By force!

Rakudjo ,
@Rakudjo@lemmy.world avatar

Goderator?

dejected_warp_core ,

Don’t give them any ideas!

Fedizen ,

I mean if you have to ask, the answer is obvious.

niktemadur ,

Can any mere man wield such ferocious, blinding power?
A terrifyingly, beautiful thing to behold. But only just a glance.
I’m scared, feel like… like an Upper Neolithic man witnessing Nikolai Tesla inside his Faraday cage, as the bright blue electric current crackles and arches all around him.

Nicoleism101 ,

Mod abuse… how typical. Is your thirst for power satisfied now?

What would happen if we would all be mods? Did you think about it? You didn’t, did you?

Zelaf ,

@admin MOD ABUSE!!!

Hubi ,
@Hubi@feddit.org avatar

Well except for the entire population of Hexbear and the 'Grad…

ryathal ,

I’m fairly sure they aren’t bots, but definitely pro Russia.

punkfungus ,

Last I checked hexbear had something like 70% more total comments than lemmy.world despite only having a tiny fraction of the users. Sounds like bots to me

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Hexbear has had an established and more active community for a longer time than Lemmy.world. You can visit Hexbear yourself and check, it’s not illegal or anything.

Over time Lemmy.world may overtake Hexbear, but not for a while.

spicytuna62 ,
@spicytuna62@lemmy.world avatar

I have imagined that ever since the Reddit emigration hype ended and things settled down a bit here that the vast majority of world and shit users are mostly lurkers and not terribly vocal, as is the case on a lot of other platforms.

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Yep, I agree, same goes for Lemm.ee and other “generalist” instances. Those attracted the most people from Reddit as they required the least knowledge before-hand of Lemmy and aimed at replicating Reddit in some ways.

More niche communities tend to be more active per user if they are well established, with Hexbear as a prime example.

LifeInMultipleChoice ,

Well Hexbear also had a policy of not showing down votes to encourage users to respond if they disagree instead of just down voting and moving on.

Cowbee , (edited )
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

It’s not that they don’t show downvotes only, you literally cannot downvote on Hexbear.

MindTraveller ,

That’s very ironic given that they ban anyone further left than “Capitalist Russia is the best country in the world! Let’s support their invasion of Ukraine for no reason! Ughur genocide fake by the way! Is not so bad that Stalin banned being gay.”

archomrade ,

Skill issue.

FiniteBanjo ,

Plus whenever somebody talks ill about the CCP over there they get barraged by copypasta responses. Their posts mirror popular posts on other servers, and generally lack any form of real discussion. The place looks like the bottiest of all instances and nothing can change my mind.

mojofrododojo ,

bots, sockpuppets, infowarfare it’s all different vlads in the same bag

ZILtoid1991 ,

A lot of troll accounts are semi-automated. They run a script that detects certain keywords, and posts premade replies to them (nowadays said premade replies are being finetuned with generative AI to look less uniform), also a human is watching over them to ensure both correct operation and to overtake in case of emergency.

Source: My father’s ex-girlfriend’s ex-boyfriend was (is) a paid online troll for Fidesz. They also had Discord (later Matrix if I recall) servers for organizing mass reports, downvotes, angry/haha react campaigns, often they also did some “private doxxing”.

Objection ,

Seems like a rock solid source making claims that are definitely falsifiable.

awwwyissss ,

Vs you from lemmy.ml who’s just here to spread lies.

Objection ,

Y’all only know how to engage through ad hominem, huh.

Hadriscus ,

Well, it’s a first-hand account

Objection ,
Hadriscus ,

you sent me an excerpt from a simpsons episode…

Objection ,

Yes, to make a point about the reliability of hearsay.

Marighost ,
@Marighost@lemm.ee avatar

I’m convinced those people have to be elaborate trolls. Like the flat earthers.

downpunxx ,

globe supremecists

Oisteink ,

nah - they are very real. Maybe sock puppets but real. I imagine them like rich 15 year old kids beeing “rad and cool”

RampageDon ,

Idk ozma was pushing a super hard the left should protest vote or not vote before getting called out in every thread. They have been slowly evolving the shill to be less and less obvious. Even started posting memes and other content to try and get the political agenda across without posting negative articles. Now the message isnt the very obvous up front don’t vote, but they are just “critical of Biden,” yet have nothing to say about anyone else. Doesn’t seem like an edgy kid to me.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Is Biden complicit in the Genocide of Palestinians?

No everyone pointing this out is a Russian bot.

This thread is top tier Blue MAGA.

RampageDon ,

Weird how I didn’t say either of those things. Also pretty hypocritical to not like what I said, put words in my mouth, and then call me Blue MAGA. Really helps your point.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Now the message isnt the very obvous up front don’t vote, but they are just “critical of Biden,”

What were you trying to dogwhistle?

RampageDon ,

Love how you quickly diverted from the hypocrisy of putting words in my mouth and then do the exact thing you seem to be crying about of labeling me Blue MAGA because I said something you didn’t like. In the US we have a FPTP voting system. We do not have a luxury of choosing the best candidate, but the lesser of 2 evils. So pretending that protesting voting or not voting is standing for a cause is a joke and disingenuous. All it does is help the opposition party. You can be critical all you want but don’t pretend to be liberal when you know a protest vote or not vote helps the other party. The message was very clear they didn’t want people to vote. Now they are trying to be more subtle about it. But sure lets be a 1 issue voter and pretend a Trump presidency would be better for the social issues everyone crying Blue MAGA seems to care so much about.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Blue MAGA calling all criticism of Biden Russian support and then claiming other people are putting words in their mouth lmao

RampageDon ,

Funny again how I never said that. At least try and be good at trolling or being edgy or w.e it is you are trying to do.

Revan343 ,

Where did they say anything about Russia?

Oisteink ,

Kids i tell you - radical kids living a safe life beeing “radical”. Its no different from the MAGA - just another extreme worldview

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Did you read meme?

sukhmel ,

Chill, man, there’s only so much space to add new names to this meme

Socsa ,

literal russian propaganda slogan

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Everything to the left of Biden is Russia reeeeeee

Socsa ,

“Blue MAGA” isn’t right or left, it’s just very stupid, very obvious, propaganda

barsquid ,

There are still clowns who think that if they say “Blue MAGA” enough people will believe it’s real? Checks the username, oh, of course, it’s one of the regulars lol.

fuckingkangaroos ,

Tag them “shill” so you can save yourself some effort in the future

irreticent ,
@irreticent@lemmy.world avatar

Linkerbaan is similar but hasn’t evolved yet. Still an obvious shill.

return2ozma ,
@return2ozma@lemmy.world avatar

Hey, I’m here! I said vote for whoever you want or don’t vote, that’s democracy.

I’ve said over and over I’m a gay guy living in the Los Angeles area and far left. I keep sounding the alarm Biden will lose to Trump but nobody wants to listen to me.

And then, the debate tonight everyone is surprised Pikachu face now.

TokenBoomer ,
awwwyissss ,

They’re paid/programmed to do what they do.

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Source?

DAMunzy ,

.world is a Liberal cesspool

p5yk0t1km1r4ge ,
@p5yk0t1km1r4ge@lemmy.world avatar

Why’s that? Got a problem with the left?

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

On what planet are liberals “the left?”

Tar_alcaran ,

The world of a hundred years ago. Where I live, the liberal parties mostly want to create more freedom for companies to fuck people over.

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Yep, pretty much. Liberalism serves the interests of Capital over people.

DragonTypeWyvern ,

Robespierre Did Nothing Wrong

KazuyaDarklight ,
@KazuyaDarklight@lemmy.world avatar

Liberals Left, Republicans Right, is the dichotomy of the US at least.

Cowbee , (edited )
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Overton Window, maybe, but that’s not a particularly useful categorization. Parties represent relatively fixed views, not directions.

KazuyaDarklight ,
@KazuyaDarklight@lemmy.world avatar

In the US it’s a spectrum combining party policy and Overton Window. As you move left, you go deeper and deeper into increasingly extreme thoughts on policy regarding what we consider classic liberal topics such as social justice, corporate power, various societal and economic reforms, etc till it hits an extreme that’s considered radical to the average, the same goes for the right and classic conservative views.

Hugging the middle/mixed gray zone are the Centrist.

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

I think you’re a bit confused on terms.

Social Justice isn’t really a “Liberal” topic. It’s a topic many US Liberals generally are progressive on, but that doesn’t make it “Liberal.” Liberalism is also not about reforming the economy but maintaining “healthy” Capitalism.

Liberal views are therefore views in line with Liberalism itself, and Liberal Parties like the DNC represent Liberalism and movements towards Liberalism, not movements towards the left.

Social Democracy, ie what Scandinavian Countries have, would be centrist.

archomrade ,

US liberals and US conservatives both share the core ideals of Liberalism, including the right to private property

They differ only in where they think individual liberty ends.

Cryophilia ,

USA

Liberal in the US means progressive. It’s a term referring to social issues, not economic ones.

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Liberal in the USA means Liberal economically, it’s just that economic Liberalism is more progressive than the alternstive, far-right populism.

Cryophilia ,

Liberal in the USA means Liberal economically

No, it absolutely does not. You are lying.

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Yes it does. The Liberals in the US support Liberalism. Calling someone a Liberal means they support Liberalism in the US.

Cryophilia ,

You are a liar and you keep spreading this bullshit. Both sides in the US support economic liberalism. The US exclusively uses the term “liberal” to refer to social issues.

You can argue about whether that’s a good definition or not, but you CANNOT argue about whether that’s actually how it’s used in the US, both in everyday usage and political journalism.

You are spreading this shit because you like to intentionally blur the difference between Democrats and Republicans.

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Both sides in the US support Capitalism, but the far-right is far more populist.

I am not trying to blur the difference between the Democrats and Republicans.

Cryophilia ,

Then why are you trying to push this idea that “liberal” = “fiscally liberal”? Not only is it not true, it’s not even useful, as we have words like “capitalist” to describe the similar economic thinking between Democrats and Republicans (and I’m using similar very loosely here, it’s only similar when compared to something like socialism).

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Liberal = Liberal, yes.

Liberalism is the dominant ideology of Capitalism, Capitalism the the dominant economic structure.

Cryophilia ,

Answer the question. Why?

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

I’m not “pushing” anything. Liberals are Liberals, pretending Liberals aren’t Liberals is goofy.

Cryophilia ,

Why do you care if the US uses the term “liberal” differently?

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Because the US doesn’t use the term differently, US Liberals view themselves differently.

Cryophilia ,

Okay, so you’re saying that liberal politicians use the term differently, but they’re wrong, because “the US” doesn’t use the term differently? You’re claiming that everyday Americans say “liberal” and are referring to the economic sense of the word?

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

No, I’m saying liberal politicians use the word correctly but view themselves as progressive, same with liberal citizenry. Nobody calls themselves a Liberal but is actually a Socialist or anything.

MindTraveller , (edited )

World and Hexbear are both liberal cesspits. One is full of centrists who think they’re leftists, and one is full of conservatives who think they’re communists.

downpunxx ,

ha!

SuddenDownpour ,

Look, you haven’t sold me on the idea, but I’m going to upvote you because, if nothing else, this is an original take.

MindTraveller ,
TopRamenBinLaden ,

This just pretends democratic socialism doesn’t exist. Like there’s nothing between liberal and ML communist.

So, you are saying that if someone wants the same end goal as you, but has a differing opinion on how we accomplish that, you insult them. I’m sure you change a lot of minds and make a lot of friends with your method.

MindTraveller ,

There is nothing between liberal and ML “communist”. They’re the same. Democratic socialism is to the left of both of those, and anarchist ideologies such as anarcho-communism, syndicalism, and mutualism are to the left of that. See, demsocs may not be the biggest fans of Marx, but they adhere far more closely to his ideas than Stalinists do.

TopRamenBinLaden ,

I see now. Intriguing take you have. It’s different than the way everybody else classifies things, but I guess I can see where you are coming from. In my opinion, ML theory is pretty left leaning when it comes to economics and the end goal of it, but the authoritarian plan for transitioning to it does not align with most other leftist virtues and ideas.

MindTraveller ,

Stalinists are just so afraid to actually pursue their supposed end goal. They always say “I want a stateless, classless moneyless society”, but if you say “Okay, let’s have a communist revolution and get rid of all that garbage right now”, they call you an idiot. “No, no, no”, they say. “You have to have a socialist revolution, and then wait two hundred years for the state to dissolve itself.” Well I’m sick of waiting. Russia never dissolved its socialist state, and China isn’t going to either. But you know who didn’t have a state, and still managed to fight bloody hard against the capitalists? Catalonia. They had the right idea, they just got rid of the state straight away. They were actually communists. I figure if the Stalinists keep saying no to communism, then they can’t be communists at all.

Cryophilia ,

“a plague on both your houses” rofl

Objection ,

True leftism is when you reject reality, and anyone that doesn’t subscribe to your extremely niche, extremely online ideology is either a conservative or a centrist. Everyone who disagrees with you, whether on the basis of theory or history or material conditions or lived experience, is just too morally impure to achieve the same level of leftism as you, you are the One True Leftist, and you’re not going to let little things like what things exist or are possible get in the way of that.

MindTraveller ,

Wow, a fellow soulist. You’re being a bit too evangelical, though. We actually have a discord server with over 70 members! discord.gg/nfbVVyXK. And if you don’t like that one, there are two newer servers run by different mod teams. discord.com/invite/w7tvaR6s. discord.gg/5THVKZrk. Also, many soulists come from diverse walks of life and have more lived experience of realist oppression than nearly anyone. For example, I have schizotypal personality disorder, so my experience of reality is neurodivergent to begin with. There are many otherkin and plural systems within the community. Even material conditions, which are fake and socially constructed, can radicalise someone towards soulism. Over half of soulists are transgender. Obviously, soulism is more attractive to any trans person than realism, because it offers faster and more complete transition than any realist ideology.

Objection ,

I am not a soulist. In fact, I consider it to be an extremely dangerous ideology. If you’re successful in undermining consensus reality, we’re going to have dragons and vampires running around terrorizing people. The moment reality becomes mutable enough for someone to turn themselves into something with mind control powers, like a mind flayer, we’re all fucked.

I am trans and neurodivergent, and I take offense at this statement:

Obviously, soulism is more attractive to any trans person than realism, because it offers faster and more complete transition than any realist ideology.

Trans identities are not a rejection of reality. I don’t find your ideology appealing in the slightest. I believe in objective science, and the science is 100% on the side of trans people.

MindTraveller ,

Of course the science is in support of trans people. Realism is anti-science. The scientific method points us inexorably towards antirealism. Soulists oppose the manufactured, false consensus reality which denies trans lives experiences. Because we’re awesome. Mainstream movements say pre-transition trans women are female on the inside, but soulists say the outside body is a mental construct, and cannot be taken as fact in any sense.

Objection , (edited )

Realism is anti-science.

Absolute nonsense.

but soulists say the outside body is a mental construct, and cannot be taken as fact in any sense.

Of course the body exists, in the same way that anything exists. It is an objective fact, and denying that doesn’t help anyone.

MindTraveller ,

You should watch cognitive scientist Donald Hoffman’s TED talk about how our bodies aren’t real. And here’s a youtube link in case you have trouble with TED’s website. And if you don’t like video, you can read his book or an Atlantic article about his book. Or this blog review of his book.

Objection , (edited )

I watched the whole 20 minute video, just for you. I’m not interested in reading more from him as I was not impressed.

Welcome to philosophy. These ideas are not remotely new, they’ve been discussed for literally thousands of years. Obviously there’s a difference between sensation and perception, and obviously it’s possible for senses to be fooled, and obviously optical illusions exist. No one denies these things.

One thing that he is wrong about near the end is the rather arrogant idea that reason and logic are somehow magically immune to evolutionary pressures. The whole host of cognitive biases we experience as humans are grounded in the fact that we evolved in contexts where group cohesion was important to survival. He doesn’t seem like a particularly knowledgeable cognitive scientist if he either isn’t aware of the bandwagon effect (for instance), or if he can’t see the obvious connection between that and the need to fit in with a tribal community.

But more to the point of his thesis, the reason it’s trash is because it fails it’s own test. It’s indeed possible that, contrary to all evidence and observations, we’re living in a simulation, or whatever gobbledyremoved he said about conscious beings creating reality - the problem is, so what? By definition, this theory is unfalsifiable, and it is not capable of helping us do anything at all.

There is a saying in science, “All models are wrong - but some are useful.” Physicists are well aware that when we draw a diagram of an atom on a piece of paper, it differs from an actual atom in several crucial ways. It’s very large, for instance, meaning that the drawing can absorb and emit photons without really changing. Our mental models of atoms are necessarily imperfect, the only perfect representation of an atom is the atom itself. However, we still use these imperfect drawings and mental models because they help us navigate reality and predict events. This person’s theory does none of that.

It appears that he has conjured up an imaginary, unobservable world, that does not interact with us in any way, and he has, for some bizarre reason, chosen to dub that with the moniker of “reality,” instead of the actual, you know, reality that we can sense and perceive, that is testable and verifiable, that is necessary to navigate in order to survive. Why he’s chosen to call his fantasy reality and reality an illusion, I don’t know.


Now look, this whole thing you’ve come up with seems like a fun little form of escapism, and I don’t have a problem with that in itself. The problem I have is when you start trying to interject it into actual politics, when you actively try to divert energy away from engaging with reality, the thing that actually exists and can measurably improve or harm people’s mental and physical states, and instead towards your fantasy. That’s when it starts sounding more like a cult.

Your kind of thinking is responsible for countless New Age spiritualists telling people they don’t need medicine, that they can just cure diseases, like AIDS, through the power of belief. You can indulge whatever fantasy you feel like, but when push comes to shove, medicine fucking works, the train will kill you if you step in front of it, etc. The speaker in your video at least acknowledged that, even if by doing so, he undermined everything else he said - at the end of the day, he has to submit to that which he labeled “illusory” and deny that which he labeled “real.” And so should you. And that means that you have to engage with materialist and empirically backed theories of psychology, sociology, politics, economics, etc. Which means, get your nonsense ideology out of here.

MindTraveller ,

The benefit Hoffman’s theory does us is that is reveals the universe is governed not by physical laws, but by cognitive laws, of which apparent physical laws are a contextually dependent subset. And we can use that, because it means reality can be manipulated not just by physical technology, but also by psychological technology. Imagine a civilisation only using half of science! It would look to the average person like a society practicing biology and medicine without ever discovering chemistry or physics. That’s precisely the situation our civilisation now finds itself in. We are only using half the science that is available to us, and half of the technologies we could have already invented by now. Antirealists demand that the government pour more research money into developing psychological technologies that alter our perception of reality. And that the public embrace such psychological technologies as have already been invented. For example, the technology to see a trans person as their preferred gender presentation regardless of their physical form. That technology is essential to preventing suicides and many people refuse to adopt it. We are fighting an anti-science platform pushed by transphobes who want trans people dead.

Objection ,

The benefit Hoffman’s theory does us is that is reveals the universe is governed not by physical laws, but by cognitive laws, of which apparent physical laws are a contextually dependent subset.

This is not what he says at all, and if he has any credibility as a scientist and doesn’t want to change careers to cult leader, he would completely disavow what you just said.

And we can use that, because it means reality can be manipulated not just by physical technology, but also by psychological technology.

This is complete nonsense.

That’s precisely the situation our civilisation now finds itself in.

No it absolutely is not.

Antirealists demand that the government pour more research money into developing psychological technologies that alter our perception of reality.

Yes, I figured this was about getting high and seeing pretty colors.

Why do you need the government for this? If you need more funds, why don’t you just alter reality to manifest them into existence?

For example, the technology to see a trans person as their preferred gender presentation regardless of their physical form.

Again, respecting a trans person’s identity does not require a denial of reality or of our physical forms. If the physical form of a trans person wasn’t objectively different from that of a cis person of the same gender, then we would not need any of the medications or treatments that we do - we wouldn’t even have the terms “trans” and “cis.” Please stop talking as if trans identities are somehow a denial of reality.

We are fighting an anti-science platform

If you respond to nothing else I say, then at least answer me this: why have you chosen to term something that is anti-science as “reality?” It makes absolutely no sense. Just say that science is real, that trans identities are real, and that transphobes are pushing a false and unreal narrative.

Try to pay attention to the language we’ve all agreed on.

MindTraveller ,

If you respond to nothing else I say, then at least answer me this: why have you chosen to term something that is anti-science as “reality?” It makes absolutely no sense. Just say that science is real, that trans identities are real, and that transphobes are pushing a false and unreal narrative.

I didn’t choose to term anti-science beliefs as reality. Society did, and then I went along with it so as not to be incomprehensible to you. If by “reality”, we mean “An objectively extant world”, then there’s no such thing, and I oppose belief in such a thing. But if by reality we mean “The world society thinks is objectively extant”, then that thing is anti-science.

It’s much the same language as an atheist might use to talk about the gods. The atheist would say "If by ‘the gods’, you mean ‘almighty beings’, then there’s no such thing, and I oppose belief in such a thing. But if by ‘the gods’, you mean ‘the almighty beings society believes in’, then they are anti-science.

Please don’t begrudge me for accepting your premise that consensus reality is reality. It’s just a matter of convenience. I cannot at the same time believe that reality is true, and that reality is what the realists believe in. I have to pick one or the other.

Why do you need the government for this? If you need more funds, why don’t you just alter reality to manifest them into existence?

Cause the brain doesn’t work like that, you dipshit. Didn’t I say our perceptual reality is governed by cognitive laws? Cognitive laws don’t allow me to just do that. Weren’t you paying attention, or do you just have a kindergartener’s understanding of psychology?

Objection ,

I didn’t choose to term anti-science beliefs as reality. Society did, and then I went along with it so as not to be incomprehensible to you. If by “reality”, we mean “An objectively extant world”, then there’s no such thing, and I oppose belief in such a thing. But if by reality we mean “The world society thinks is objectively extant”, then that thing is anti-science.

That which has the potential to smack you if you pretend it doesn’t exist is objectively real. It is nonsense to say that that is not real or that anything else is more real than that. There is no “world society thinks is objectively extant.” Society contains a lot of people who disagree on a lot of things. Scientists and supporters of trans rights are part of society.

Please don’t begrudge me for accepting your premise that consensus reality is reality.

Never said that. That’s your position, isn’t it? My position is that there is an objective reality that exists regardless of what people believe.

Cause the brain doesn’t work like that, you dipshit. Didn’t I say our perceptual reality is governed by cognitive laws? Cognitive laws don’t allow me to just do that. Weren’t you paying attention, or do you just have a kindergartener’s understanding of psychology?

Sorry, I suppose I’ve only been schooled in laws that, uh, actually exist and are observable and testable. I suppose I do have a kindergartener’s understanding of these magical psychic laws you’ve made up, I know nothing about how they supposedly work, please excuse my ignorance.

MindTraveller ,

You see, denying the existence of the entire field of psychology and claiming I made it up is exactly what makes you an anti-science weirdo.

Objection ,

I’m familiar with psychology. Nothing about psychology suggests that it’s possible to collectively reshape the physical world through thought if enough people believe hard enough. I’d love to see some academic work that supports that claim.

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Why do you think Hexbear are not Communists?

MindTraveller ,

They don’t want to have a communist revolution. They want to have a socialist revolution and then wait for the state to implement communism on its own. A true communist would act to bring about communism.

https://lemmy.ca/pictrs/image/edd9e4a7-82bb-45c8-bf1b-1af888c8888a.png

Cowbee , (edited )
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Have you by any chance read The Communist Manifesto or Critique of the Gotha Programme? Both are very short reads, and give some level of idea of what Marx is directly advocating for, as opposed to his general critique of Capitalism or his philosophical work on Dialectical Materialism. Marx was no Anarchist, he advocated for building Communism over time. This didn’t mean “waiting for the state to one day turn on the Communism switch,” that ignores his entire philosophy of Historical Materialism, whereby societal contradictions are worked out over time, as nothing is inherently static and everything is in motion.

None of this requires any of Lenin’s work to be read at all.

If you’re saying that a “True Communist” would somehow magically create Communism directly via revolution and not over time, then Marx was not a “True Communist.” At this point, you’re deeply silly, and simply redefining Anarchism as “True Communism” to win a game of semantics and label all non-Anarchists as conservatives.

Edit: oh, in another post you directly out yourself as a Soulist, and thus you disagree with Marx not only on his advocacy for Communism, but also his philosophy of Dialectical Materialism. At this point, you’re content to deny science and Materialism for the sake of pushing forward the idea that ideas create reality, which is deeply unserious.

MindTraveller ,

Dialectical materialism is a misnomer. I’ll give you an example. Suppose Alice’s boss pays her one dollar an hour, while Bob’s boss pays him a thousand dollars an hour. A dollar is not a material object. It’s a social construct. These quantities are, material, simply numbers in a bank account. Less than that, because numbers are social constructs too. Materially, these are magnetised bits on a hard drive. There is no material sense in which Bob earns more than Alice. The fact that Bob earns a thousand times as much is purely social, not material. Yet, as a result of the exchange of social constructs, Alice lives in a slum and cannot afford medical care for the tumor that will kill her in a year’s time, and she is driven by necessity towards revolution. While Bob lives a life of privilege in a mcmansion with three healthy kids from three different ex-wives, and Bob is incentivised to maintain the status quo and oppose revolution.

If the dialectical philosophy of marxists were aptly named, it would be called dialectical determinism. Alice and Bob’s lives are governed by cause and effect, not by materials. They are governed by the cause and effect of social constructs. We can say that materially, Bob is more wealthy because he has a mansion, but why does he have a mansion when Alice does not? Because of a social construct. Not a material. It is wrong to say Alice’s desire for revolution is driven by materials. It is in fact driven by cause and effect, which is much more universal than mere matter.

Being a soulist does not make me the enemy of dialectical determinists, which is to say Marxists. But it does make me the enemy of realists, who misunderstand the lessons to be learned from Marx’s writing and fixate upon the physical to the exclusion of truth.

Cowbee , (edited )
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Oh, it appears I was wrong. You reject all of Marxism, including his critique of Capitalism via rejection of the Labor Theory of Value. Money is a representation of Exchange-Value, it doesn’t simply exist in our minds. Recognizing income differences is not an anti-Materialist take, pretending these happen for no reason is a rejection of attempting to understand Capitalism itself, and reality.

This is Idealism at its peak, and is a complete misunderstanding of what Materialists mean when referencing Social Relations. If you genuinely want to understand Dialectical Materialism, please read Elementary Principles of Philosophy by Politzer. Materialists understand social relations.

Alice’s drive towards revolution is due to her material conditions, which are caused by the material reality of Capitalism.

You are an enemy of Marxism and Marxists because you reject all 3 pillars of Marxism: Critique of Capitalism via the Labor Theory of Value, advocacy for Socialism as a way to build towards Communism, and Dialectical and Historical Materialism. Pretending to be the “One True Communist” while completely disavowing history’s most important Communist in every major manner is just anticommunism.

MindTraveller ,

Love the argument. “No u”. Great job telling me my own beliefs incorrectly. With skills like that, you could be a politician in the US.

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Yes, your beliefs about Marxist beliefs are wrong, and your beliefs about your own reality are wrong. Avoiding actually engaging with the points I made by replacing them with a “no u” and attacking me personally is again deeply unserious behavior.

MindTraveller ,

If you want me to take you seriously, maybe try having serious arguments.

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

What part wasn’t serious?

MindTraveller ,

The part where you completely misunderstood both Marx and my own arguments. But no, no, go ahead. I’m sure everyone at the clown college is very impressed with you.

Cowbee , (edited )
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

How did I completely misunderstand both Marx and your own arguments? Saying “no u” and calling me a clown isn’t how you win an argument.

MindTraveller ,

I don’t need to argue with you. The ridiculousness of your position speaks for itself.

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Seems to me like you just have no way to address the arguments I raised and just resort to endless ad-hominem as a frustrated way to deflect, but whatever. Have a good day.

Ella_HOD ,

This is the worst thing that I have ever read, so bad that it made me make an account just to tell you how wrong you are.

First of all, if you even, for a second, thought about what you were saying this immediately crumbles. You dedicate a significant portion to talking about the material differences in the lives of those individuals, the property they own, the health care they can access, but then proceed to deny that it is the material conditions, that you have just laid out, that drive people towards certain ideas! You utterly contradict yourself.

Secondly, you just completely ignore how reality works and draw an arbitrary start line where everything just begins in a highly developed manner. The workers are not preordained to be workers, the bourgeoisie are not preordained to be such either. The people in your thought experiment would be in such a position due to a very very very very long history of subjective action arising from objective material conditions and social relationships (those relationships also arising from material conditions). So, dialectical materialism is very aptly named!

Thirdly, you have no idea what dialectical means and it is agonisingly obvious. A dialectic is the relationship between the opposite aspects inherent within a thing. So, with any morsel of philosophical thought it is readily apparent that “dialectical determinism” is an oxymoron. And I know you lack that said morsel of philosophical thought, so I’m going to explain it to you. The dialectic in question is the subject-object relationship, otherwise known as historical materialism: so if you remove subjectivity (which is a necessary consequence of a deterministic world view) you are debasing the subject to a mere object; and if there is no subject, there’s no subject-object relationship and thus no dialectic.

To wrap things up, stop trying to talk about things you’re beyond clueless about!

Socsa ,

And large parts of .ml, which is the bridge for hexbear to all the instances which defederated with them.

It really does feel like hexbear users are probably high fiving each other over their cubicle walls in Vladivostok. The admin openly states their goal is information warfare.

match ,
@match@pawb.social avatar

It’s super neat being in a different federation group than other posters, I have no idea what the bad places are like

ccunning ,

Just need to swap SatansMaggotyCumFart with Jimmydoreisalefty.

@SatansMaggotyCumFart is simply irreverent; not a troll.

Maven OP ,

Damn I forgot about dore is a lefty!

DAMunzy ,

He definitely is not. He’s a grifter that parrots a lot of right wing nut job conspiracy theories like anti-vaxxing. He’s a Liberal at most.

Maven OP ,

There is a user named JimmyDoreIsALefty who constantly posts bait and argues in the comments of it.

Willy ,

Sinister as shit.

robocall ,
@robocall@lemmy.world avatar

I like Jimmy’s contributions. :-/

Edit: some*

SatansMaggotyCumFart ,

I need to figure out what irreverent means so I know if I should be insulted.

ccunning ,

Trust me - it’s better than some fucking herb

sharkfucker420 ,
@sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml avatar

It’s liberal for deeply unserious I think

ccunning ,

Liberal or not I think we can all agree more unseriousness is needed on Lemmy.

The top voted comment on a shitposting post amounts to a “WELl aCTcTUAtLY” for X’s sake.

sukhmel ,

Well, actually, “well actually” comments under shitposts usually add ironic value and aren’t too serious, at least most of what I’ve seen

AuroraZzz ,

@SatansMaggotyCumFart is a maga troll that loves giving the Jan 6th traitors kisses on their little traitor faces

bstix ,

She’s more of a Devils advocate. Just stating the wrong opinion for others to explain what’s right. There’s never any clever comeback, so I kind of think that’s the reason for her to shitpost so heavily.

I’ve blocked plenty of trolls here, but not her, yet.

retrospectology ,
@retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

Ok, so I’m not the only one who noticed that their spam has a weird taste to it. It’s got that vibe of some agreeable left-wing content but then feels likes it only there to mask authoritarian narrative building.

TheFonz ,

I’m glad I’m not the only one. That account is truly bizarre (from the point of view of how they write and express themselves). I’ve engaged with them a few times and it’s like a weird loop. I know it’s a real person, but it feels like talking to a script or dialog tree because it always goes down the same 1-2 dialog paths

ccunning ,

I think it’s a bot assisted human. The amount of spam they output is inhuman but they do interact like a human at times.

ZeroCool ,
@ZeroCool@vger.social avatar

I’d estimate blocking ozma has reduced the amount of “Trump and the GOP may be attempting to install a fascist dictatorship but Biden’s old” nonsense in my feed by 95%.

chemical_cutthroat ,
@chemical_cutthroat@lemmy.world avatar

I’ve blocked both of them, as well as the politicalmemes community and my Lemmy experience has gotten so much better.

Cryophilia ,

Ozma got banned from politicalmemes recently and it’s 1000% better for it

Excrubulent , (edited )
@Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

Ah yes, “old”, the only criticism of Biden that does or could ever exist.

You could’ve talked about the genocide, but that would’ve made it sound less frivolous now, wouldn’t it?

Edit: For all the people who don’t like people talking about actual genocide that Biden is supporting, minimising the seriousness of a genocide because you think you have a good reason for it is still genocide denial. You have become genocide deniers for the sake of the dubious shift in votes from whatever population of voters you think will see you doing genocide denial and think “actually they have a point I’ll vote for Biden now”.

Edit 2: Your case isn’t helped by the fact that the only person arguing with me did so with genocide denial. Think about that.

Edit 3: The other person arguing is also doing genocide denial, but the oblique kind where you pretend that the only reason to criticise a sitting US president engaging in genocide is because you want him to lose an election. Almost like they’re denying that we should hold people accountable for genocide on its own merits. That is, and I cannot stress this enough, genocide denial.

Willy ,

It just doesn’t seem like full genocide yet. Genocide light? You may be proved right but I just haven’t seen it. I’m not there though and I’m not smart. There’s a difference between lining everyone up and killing them and starving them while doing military stuff. You may say there isnt a difference, but those are different things to me. Please don’t get me wrong I think what is going on, seemingly for political reasons, is very wrong and bad. But genocide is about the worst so it’s hard be that bad.

Bring on the downvotes.

Excrubulent , (edited )
@Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

It just doesn’t seem like full genocide yet. Genocide light?

Oh dear, oh no, genocide is such a strong word for aerial bombing of civilians, denying them aid, targeting hospitals, sniping children, burying them in mass graves and killing more children than in all global conflicts over the last four years combined, all with the explicit goal of wiping out their people group and displacing them from their homeland. It’s just, oh no, I wouldn’t want to say mean words about the people doing all of that, because that might be unfair to the mass child slaughterers. There isn’t worse than this. This is genocide.

Holocaust deniers don’t call themselves “deniers” either, they start organisations like the “Committee for Open Debate on the Holocaust”. That’s a real thing, you can look it up, it’s disgusting.

You just did genocide denial.

GoodEye8 ,

And don’t forget capitalist Joe. Nobody is talking about the actual capitalism Joe is supporting because you think you have a good reason for it.

Excrubulent ,
@Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

I’m assuming “you” in this case is the general “you”, because I absolutely do hate him for that as well. Yeah, Joe is a neoliberal capitalist, but nobody doing genocide denial on his behalf is going to be worried about that charge.

You point out that they’re genocide deniers and you get the person who responded to me fretting about whether we should really call it a genocide. You know, doing genocide denial, because people who have painted themselves into that corner aren’t going to stop doing genocide denial, they’ll keep showing you who they really are. That’s damning to anyone who’s really paying attention.

GoodEye8 ,

Actually I’m just pointing out that you’re complaining about something that won’t change. You can complain about Biden being a capitalist but every final presidential candidate has been a capitalist for I don’t even know for how many decades. You’re complaining into the void because unless the system itself changes there’s no chance to have a socialist president.

Similarly you’re complaining about Biden supporting genocide but the alternative, Trump, has pretty much said he will go gloves off and give Israel whatever they need. In fact you probably couldn’t find a president in the last 20 years who wouldn’t be supporting Israel. It’s not a specific president or presidential candidate that is supporting genocide, it’s the entire system. The only thing you realistically accomplish by complaining about Biden is sowing division.

As for the “genocide deniers”, well some people are just dumb and we have to accept that.

Excrubulent ,
@Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

Actually I’m just pointing out that you’re complaining about something that won’t change.

The only thing you realistically accomplish by complaining about Biden is sowing division.

I don’t know about that, I think political possibility goes beyond who will be convinced to change their vote because you told people to stop complaining about Biden.

Like for instance, you acknowledging that the US is going to do genocide no matter what seems like a pretty damning thing to say, no? Seems like something worth saying. Seems like maybe we should condemn people who do genocide, or are willing to helm a nation that will make them complicit in genocide no matter what, because those are people that are going to do a genocide. Seems like maybe getting people on board with a system change involves pointing out that it is an inexorable genocide machine. And if that’s what it takes to stop the genocides - and you seem to agree with me on this - then maybe we should, I don’t know, talk about it?

Pretending that the entire value in discussing genocide starts and ends with who will be elected president is pretty minimising to the importance of the, you know, genocide. Seems like a kind of genocide denial to me.

As for the “genocide deniers”, well some people are just dumb and we have to accept that.

I’m yet to find a comment section that isn’t full of you fuckers.

I think if you think you need to do this to get someone elected, that’s actually counterproductive. Like maybe people associating Biden with genocide denial is going to make it harder for them to hold their nose and vote strategically like you want. It’s very hard to imagine the voter who would care about the genocide and yet be fooled into voting for Biden because people kept his genocide support on the down-low. Seems like you’re cutting off little pieces of your soul for the sake of a strategy that isn’t going to really work, unless you’ve got an A-to-B for me on how telling people to stop complaining about Biden’s genocide support helps him win election.

GoodEye8 ,

I’m yet to find a comment section that isn’t full of you fuckers.

I’m going to start from here because this is how you show how disingenuous you are. I straight up said I don’t agree with the genocide deniers and what do you do? You still lump me in with them. Your entire mindset here is “If they don’t agree with me they must be genocide deniers”. Fuck off with that shit.

I don’t know about that, I think political possibility goes beyond who will be convinced to change their vote because you told people to stop complaining about Biden.

Like for instance, you acknowledging that the US is going to do genocide no matter what seems like a pretty damning thing to say, no? Seems like something worth saying. Seems like maybe we should condemn people who do genocide, or are willing to helm a nation that will make them complicit in genocide no matter what, because those are people that are going to do a genocide.

Political possibilities goes beyond when you stop complaining about a part of the problem and start criticizing the problem as a whole. Biden is only a part of the problem, the real problem is that the majority political landscape of US supports Israel. You can’t even get a real presidential candidate who would oppose Israel because it would go against the party line. And yet you’re convinced it’s Biden you should be complaining about.

Seems like maybe getting people on board with a system change involves pointing out that it is an inexorable genocide machine. And if that’s what it takes to stop the genocides - and you seem to agree with me on this - then maybe we should, I don’t know, talk about it?

Which is why you should talk about all the politicians supporting the genocide and not just focus on one. Why aren’t you complaining about Trump? Why aren’t you complaining about Mitch McConnell or Chuck Schumer? Why aren’t you complaining about everyone in congress who voted to aid Israel? Why is it that you only complain about Biden?

I think if you think you need to do this to get someone elected, that’s actually counterproductive. Like maybe people associating Biden with genocide denial is going to make it harder for them to hold their nose and vote strategically like you want. It’s very hard to imagine the voter who would care about the genocide and yet be fooled into voting for Biden because people kept his genocide support on the down-low. Seems like you’re cutting off little pieces of your soul for the sake of a strategy that isn’t going to really work, unless you’ve got an A-to-B for me on how telling people to stop complaining about Biden’s genocide support helps him win election.

It’s not about getting Biden elected, it’s about making sure Trump does not get elected. That’s what your elections have always been about, voting against the guy you hate more. If you don’t vote for Biden you’re indirectly voting for Trump because the system boils down to you either get Biden or you get Trump. And it doesn’t matter who gets elected, America will still support genocide. This vote isn’t about genocide, it’s about whether American will get a fascist leader or not. You can sit on your high horse and talk about how people are cutting off pieces of their soul “for strategy”, but don’t be surprised when genocide continues and you get fascism shoved down your throat.

Excrubulent , (edited )
@Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

Your entire mindset here is “If they don’t agree with me they must be genocide deniers”.

I explained how you were doing genocide denial. You said that complaining about Biden is only “sowing division”. So that means that we shouldn’t criticise him for his genocide. Denying that a genocide should be criticised on its own merits is a form of genocide denial. Not all genocide denial is “this genocide didn’t happen”. In fact most of it isn’t. Most of it is politically motivated muddying of the waters, like what you did.

And yet you’re convinced it’s Biden you should be complaining about.

Because he is the president and the person in the greatest position of power to do something about it, and yet he refuses.

Why aren’t you complaining about Trump? Why aren’t you complaining about [whatabout whatabout whatabout]

Because none of those people is currently the US president.

Also, the original comment I replied to was about how people are just complaining that Biden is “old”. I was pointing out that this person was clearly deliberately avoiding the main criticism, which is of course the genocide.

It’s not about getting Biden elected, it’s about making sure Trump does not get elected.

That’s just the same thing said two ways. Most people who vote for Trump don’t like him much either, they just think they have to get Biden out. This is how the two-party system captures your political imagination and makes you police other people to tell them not to criticise your candidate. You’ve fallen for its trap.

And the idea that nothing can be changed without system change is actually false. Popular opposition has won basically all the victories worth noting in liberal democracies. They weren’t handed down from the legislature, they were fought for from the bottom up. But if people won’t stand up and full-throated condemn the one person most responsible for the current iteration of this genocide, then he won’t feel any pressure to do anything about it.

And if he doesn’t stop his genocide support - for real, not just a token “hey now jack stop that” - then I won’t be surprised when he loses to Trump, because he chose to support fascism overseas and thus willingly lost to fascism at home.

GoodEye8 ,

You can sit on your high horse and talk about how people are cutting off pieces of their soul “for strategy”, but don’t be surprised when genocide continues and you get fascism shoved down your throat.

Excrubulent ,
@Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

And if he doesn’t stop his genocide support - for real, not just a token “hey now jack stop that” - then I won’t be surprised when he loses to Trump, because he chose to support fascism overseas and thus willingly lost to fascism at home.

It’s fascinating how you’ll continually blame the people calling out genocide support from the white house for them losing, but you won’t blame their genocide support for them losing.

Almost like you’re not that interested in opposing the genocide.

Almost like you’re doing… genocide denial.

GoodEye8 ,

How many times do I have to repeat myself?

I’m going to start from here because this is how you show how disingenuous you are. I straight up said I don’t agree with the genocide deniers and what do you do? You still lump me in with them. Your entire mindset here is “If they don’t agree with me they must be genocide deniers”. Fuck off with that shit.

You don’t even try to understand what I’m saying, all you see is that I don’t agree with you and so you mental gymnastic yourself into believing I’m doing genocide denial. Once again, fuck off with that shit.

Go on man, shut me up. Retell my point back to me.

Excrubulent ,
@Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

I told you multiple times how it was genocide denial. I explained the how of it. You have failed to even acknowledge that let alone respond to it.

I guess it’s hard to face the fact that you’re doing genocide denial, so the only thing you can do is pretend I’m being disingenuous. Funny thing is, even if I’m being disingenuous that doesn’t make you not a genocide denier.

If you want to explain how that’s wrong you need to respond to the argument, but you’re not doing that.

GoodEye8 ,

As if to prove my point… All you had to do was tell me the argument I made and all you did was “This is how it’s genocide denial”. It’s exactly what I said you do.

Excrubulent ,
@Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

I honestly have no idea what you’re saying here. Is this what 'retell my point back to me" was about? You want me to explain how you’re doing genocide denial, again? A fourth time? I’ll copy-paste the three different ways I’ve tried to explain it and which you have ignored, and then we’re done here if you keep ignoring it.

I explained how you were doing genocide denial. You said that complaining about Biden is only “sowing division”. So that means that we shouldn’t criticise him for his genocide. Denying that a genocide should be criticised on its own merits is a form of genocide denial. Not all genocide denial is “this genocide didn’t happen”. In fact most of it isn’t. Most of it is politically motivated muddying of the waters, like what you did.

Pretending that the entire value in discussing genocide starts and ends with who will be elected president is pretty minimising to the importance of the, you know, genocide. Seems like a kind of genocide denial to me.

Edit 3: The other person arguing is also doing genocide denial, but the oblique kind where you pretend that the only reason to criticise a sitting US president engaging in genocide is because you want him to lose an election. Almost like they’re denying that we should hold people accountable for genocide on its own merits. That is, and I cannot stress this enough, genocide denial.

answersplease77 ,

Even without any karma system, interacting with the users here is a breath of fresh air. Lemmy has the least shills and bots compared to the poison in most other platforms. It’s currently Lemmy’s best asset and where it stands out from all existing social media imo, and I hope it remains this way.

tacosanonymous ,

They’re certainly easier to avoid.

TankovayaDiviziya ,

Lemmy has the least shills and bots

Because it’s not popular yet. Wait until it becomes so and the inevitable enshittification happens.

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Enshittification isn’t what happens when something becomes popular, it’s what happens to disruptive tech and commodities that get increasingly fine-tuned for profit after competition inevitably floods in. It’s a product of monetization.

Lemmy is FOSS so that won’t happen, plus you can splinter off into your own walled garden instance like Beehaw if you want.

PeriodicallyPedantic ,

You make it sound like monetization can’t happen on a FOSS platform. Bots are a form of monetization, it’s just not by the people who created and control the platform.

As it gets popular, bots will come for the purpose of creating an audience and monetizing them.

Shyfer ,

That’s true, but it’s just not enshittification because it’s not done by the platform itself. It’s a different word.

PeriodicallyPedantic ,

Hmmm interesting. I was under the impression that enshitification was “making something shittier in the pursuit of (eg) greed”, I didn’t realize that it only applies to when the creator (controller? owner?) of the thing does it.

Has it always been used for this specific case? If so, what is the word for the more general case I described?

Shyfer ,

The original use is specifically a service platform that’s made worse by the owners to get more money after first being good to everyone to collect a large user base, then by squeezing the general end users, then by squeezing the business customers to collect value for themselves.

It sounds like a really specific definition, but you’d be surprised by how often it applies. He originally thought of it to apply to Tik Tok after noticing it following a similar pattern as Facebook, Amazon, and I think Google. Then the internet realized it could keep applying his term to so many more companies, like Spotify, Uber, Lyft, Airbnb, Reddit, Microsoft, Apple, all streaming companies, and even physical product companies like car companies or John Deere, etc and it’s shot up in popularity and use since then.

Not sure of the general use case you describe, but the person who invented the term in that article I linked sounds like he doesn’t mind if it’s used in a more general case for things getting worse from greed, so feel free to go ahead and keep using it I guess lol. Although maybe we should come up with a different, more general term for that if there isn’t already one? I’ve got nothing, but if anyone has suggestions lol.

awwwyissss ,

Enshittification also happens because of government propaganda, like the authoritarian propaganda Lemmy.ml spreads for the CCP.

ZILtoid1991 ,

That’s a single instance, they can be blocked and avoided. The FOSS community is way more resiliant to enshittification.

areyouevenreal ,

Not really, their users make alts everywhere else too. It’s also quite easy just to keep setting up new instances too.

ZILtoid1991 ,

Deal with them just like regular trolls. You shouldn’t be like the Muskrat cultists who think content moderation is useless and thus should be given up on. I understand, I suffered from activism burnout on the regular (one was right in the middle of an election campaign), but one should not give up easily.

areyouevenreal ,

That’s not at all what I am saying. I am saying it’s easier to do moderation on more centralised platforms like Reddit, because moderators simply have more power and more tools there. The flip side of that being that it makes it easier for moderators and admins to abuse and ban people without recourse. I am not saying moderation is pointless at all, just that it’s easier with one platform than the other. There are pros and cons to both models.

I would argue being open source and decentralised are major advantages of Lemmy and are more than sufficient to justify its existence. Just that it also isn’t perfect either. There are always trade-offs to be made when designing a platform, and that’s something you should always bear in mind.

ZILtoid1991 ,

Centralized platforms are also prone to the same kind of attacks. Kiwifarms and especially its users’ offshoot Discord and Matrix chatrooms are good example for this. Hell, even 4chan was infamous for organizing troll campaigns, first just “4 teh lulz”, then people turned the site into their personal army.

areyouevenreal ,

Yes, but it’s still way easier to pull off having multiple accounts and evading bans on lemmy

Comparing lemmy to 4chan is completely disingenuous. It has virtually no moderation by design. That’s what its whole reputation is staked on.

Discord is also a different kind of platform. You can’t read into servers you aren’t a part of, or participate in them. The dynamics there are very different, and most servers are invite only.

To me one of reddits main problems is their moderators and how overzealous they can be. I am relieved to see lemmy doesn’t give mods or site admins as much power over others, even if that causes problems from time to time. Someone else might see it differently though.

awwwyissss ,

Reddit also has a ton of money they can dedicate to countering disinformation compared to no budget for it in the Fediverse.

awwwyissss ,

I blocked Hexbear and they made accounts on lemmy.ml. if I block lemmy.ml they’ll just make accounts somewhere else. We need to collectively become aware of the problem and deal with it together.

Cowbee , (edited )
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Aee you suggesting people on Lemmy.ml are paid by the Chinese government to spread propaganda?

awwwyissss ,

Some of them yes, absolutely.

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Do you have any source for that? I would be curious to see.

fuckingkangaroos ,

Let me ask friend in the CCP to send some of their files over for you to look at, it’s all very open and well documented.

irreticent ,
@irreticent@lemmy.world avatar

You seem to be joking but it actually is well documented.

  • The , is the colloquial term for Internet commentators, who are hired by Chinese authorities in an attempt to manipulate public opinion to the benefit of the Chinese Communist Party. It was created during the early phases of the Internet’s rollout to the wider public in China.

The name is derived from the fact that such commentators are reportedly paid RMB¥0.50 for every post.

awwwyissss ,

Thanks, I hadn’t heard of them. Thought this was interesting:

Authors of a paper published in 2017 in the American Political Science Review estimate that the Chinese government fabricates 488 million social media posts per year.

Now with increased focus on social media and LLMs I’d be surprised if it isn’t well into the billions.

sukhmel ,

I think, they are only paid indirectly in that the money are spent on propaganda to make them act like this

sukhmel ,

Ey used the wrong word, but this in fact is correct. Once lemmy gets popular, bot farms will definitely will siege it, and the amount of “bots and shills” will rise

Distant_Foreground ,

Maybe “dickheadification” instead?

owenfromcanada ,
@owenfromcanada@lemmy.world avatar

Have we forgotten that we also have Margot Robbie?

nickwitha_k ,

I think that she prefers “Academy Award-nominated character actor, and producer Margot Robbie”.

owenfromcanada ,
@owenfromcanada@lemmy.world avatar

Star of the Barbie movie, now available on Blu Ray at your local retailers!

AhismaMiasma ,

On the internet, no one knows if you’re A̶u̶s̶t̶r̶a̶l̶i̶a̶n̶ Academy Award winning actress Margot Robbie.

AFKBRBChocolate ,

Are you saying that she’s a bot or a troll?

owenfromcanada ,
@owenfromcanada@lemmy.world avatar

I’m saying she’s an academy award nominated character actor and producer

ceenote ,

The tragic thing, though, is that if lemmy ever “takes off”, there’s nothing about it that will make it any more resistant to bots and trolls.

It’s kinda like back when Macs had no viruses, because nobody bothered.

Vilian ,

nah, descentralisation is what help, i already read as article explaining exactly that, lemmy problem is that one of it first instances are full of trolls lol

henfredemars , (edited )

I disagree. Lemmy is more resistant to bots because there’s no perverse incentive to boost user activity numbers to please investors and advertisers. Reddit for example doesn’t really care if most comments are fake on a post. It’s still interaction and it pumps numbers. Lemmy is built and run by us. It serves no other masters.

Given that users naturally self-sort into instances, your trolls are also more likely to congregate on instances and communities that can be blocked. I don’t want to name any names but I do block some instances from my view for a reason. The Russian bots congregate in places that are amenable to this, and the design of Lemmy encourages this self-sorting into places where you’re accepted.

The problem is still significant, but there are advantages to the fediverse.

Paradachshund ,

I think it would be more likely bots would flood instances with posts at a level that was unrealistic for the small scale admins we currently have to combat.

GreatAlbatross ,
@GreatAlbatross@feddit.uk avatar

There is a bit of a chain of trust, however. Instance fills with spam bots? Defed.
Spam bots start making their own instances? Go to whitelists.

And as henfredemars says, because there is no financial incentive to grow the userbase, instances can slow things right down if the spam starts.

ceenote ,

This’ll probably be an “agree to disagree,” but I think most websites do make good faith efforts to lower bot usage. Not because I trust them or anything, but because the perception that bot spam is out of control is bad for their bottom line. It drives away real users and high bot activity makes advertisers disinclined to trust that the high traffic is of any value.

awwwyissss ,

Not only that, but it’s actually a much easier target because of the relatively sporadic moderation.

Compared to reddit, the Fediverse’s ability to moderate propaganda and advertising is puny and uncoordinated.

awwwyissss ,

Hard disagree. I’m already spending less time here because the Kremlin and CCP propaganda ruins the experience for me. I don’t even consider recommending it to people I know for the same reason.

UndercoverUlrikHD ,

You can block Instances that like those, or switch to and instance where the admins do it on an instance level.

awwwyissss ,

I still see their comments all the time and they still upvote their propaganda on other instances.

UndercoverUlrikHD ,

Joining an instance that has defederated from them should alleviate that problem.

UraniumBlazer ,

Eh just block the tankie instances. That problem goes away quickly!

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Just because I’m not seeing these comments and posts doesn’t mean other people aren’t. And if they’re seeing it, then they’ll get seduced by the evil tankie mind-control rays. That means I’ve got to start blocking them, too.

Pretty soon, I’ll be in this shrinking walled garden of fewer and fewer people who say things I approve of. And then what?! I might begin to question my own self-righteousness or engage in some degree of critical reflection of views. That’ll be it. They’ll have gotten to me, too!

The whole Lemmy.world community needs to be severed from any instance of heresy. Otherwise, my personal views might be put at risk.

Cowbee ,
@Cowbee@lemmy.ml avatar

Uphold Lemmy.world Thought

Nicoleism101 ,

Wow, for some reason tho you tankies are on the margins of society. You have to hide in some small holes like rats because no one takes you seriously or bans you.

And yet you claim that we are the ones hiding and protecting our fragile views…

No. We just want to skip the second hand embarrassment when we see your content.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

you tankies are on the margins of society

It’s funny to see a police officer in an MRAP drive down my street, while a guy on the internet insists my problem is that I’m too much of a militant.

we are the ones hiding and protecting our fragile views…

Why else invoke admins and mods to protect you?

We just want to skip the second hand embarrassment

If you’re feeling shame because you hear someone assert that genocide is bad, that’s not second-hand. That’s your conscience screaming at you.

Nicoleism101 , (edited )

Keep coping but you are incredibly small minority and any sane person just laughs at you so you hide in some niche web communities like hexbear and yet you are still defederated from en masse

There’s a sign there ‚hidden’ to reevaluate your life. If there’s smell everywhere you go…

Have you ever considered that maybe… you are wrong? That maybe your idols Marx and Lenin weren’t such visionary geniuses?

Personally my country had enough of communism for a few lifetimes. Socialism maybe, socialdemocracy yes. Progressiveness big yes. But communism? Get the fuck out from here literally. And I am not kidding. We polish people have this habit to shoot soviets.

Objection ,

You say on a platform developed by “tankies”

dan ,
@dan@upvote.au avatar

Just because I’m not seeing these comments and posts doesn’t mean other people aren’t.

Then join an instance that blocks the instances you don’t like? The main benefit of Lemmy is that there’s many different instances with different moderation approaches.

TokenBoomer ,
Rustmilian ,
@Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

You forgot that lemmy.ml, lemmygrad, & hexbear exist.

HAL_9_TRILLION ,

Hexbear is… I’m just old I guess, I don’t understand. My instance is not defederated from them. Whenever I’m reading a post that originates from hexbear, I can always tell. Like it will just hit me and I will look at the source and yep, it’s hexbear.

But I don’t exactly understand why. I can’t see that they have any particular worldview, they just have a unique (and contrarian) way of expressing… all worldviews, seemingly. It feels like an inside joke that I don’t have enough information about to understand.

Doesn’t seem like bots, Russian or otherwise. Too vague. Not enough of a directed agenda. Is it just trolls? They seem to earnest to be trolls.

Rustmilian , (edited )
@Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Hexbear

They’re basically trans communist genocide deniers, they’ve run troll ops which is why they’ve been mass de-federated.
See lemmy.world/post/2498330

Leate_Wonceslace ,
@Leate_Wonceslace@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

This article makes me think this is a tankie wiki, because literally everyone from that awful place is a tankie as far as I can tell.

Rustmilian ,
@Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

It is a tankie wiki, but what a better way to expose their tankie nature than the tankies themself.

Ilovethebomb ,

They’ve chosen a very confrontational path with the way their instance interacts with others, and as a result they get a lot of push back, which just makes them angrier. I suspect anyone trying to be reasonable on the instance gets accused of not being a true believer as well, so only the angriest remain.

Also, Boost for Lemmy allows you to block an entire instance, it’s pretty handy.

Shyfer ,

Their community came over here long before all us old Redditors and it seems like they’ve cultivated their own culture and in-jokes and such. It can get confusing to pierce all the irony and sarcasm to figure out what they’re saying sometimes.

PythagreousTitties ,

They’re kids that like confrontation. They don’t actually have any agenda other than “this hexbear user said to follow this!” And they jump on it. The next day could be a completely different stance on the subject.

pelletbucket ,

i haven’t gotten into a single fight with a mod in nine months! it’s wild

DragonTypeWyvern ,

Of course, one of the things about Lemmy is you can’t appeal a mod action (as far as I know)

JordanLund seems fairly level but once deleted one of my comments for “advocating violence” when I said Nixon and Kissinger should have been hanged for treason. They’re both already dead… And that’s the legal punishment for high treason. Which they did.

Tl;Dr you can’t get in a mod fight because you can’t fight back

fl42v ,

As a Russian bot, I’m deeply offended

greywolf0x1 ,

same here, i really hate all this neo-liberal drivel about how everything they don’t like is a CCP/Kremlin sponsored propoganda

Socsa ,

Very good +1000 social credit, OP

TrickDacy ,

Huh

Socsa ,

What?

TrickDacy ,

Exactly. Some random snide implication of Chinese support, no specifics though

Rustmilian ,
@Rustmilian@lemmy.world avatar

Lemmygrad, Hexbear, & Lemmy.ml.

sparkle , (edited )

I think he is making a joke that OP is, in fact, the bot

Or maybe he’s just bullying OP for circlejerking so hard and giving himself a pat on the back as a Lemmy user

eezeebee ,
@eezeebee@lemmy.ca avatar

SMCF is one of the comfort usernames that I’ve seen around ever since joining Lemmy

sharkfucker420 ,
@sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml avatar

Same tbh, the name always gives me a smirk lol

ramble81 ,

Yes yes it does… shart … fucker… 420, oh! shark! Misread it.

TrickDacy ,

Comfort =/= super disgusting and weird on purpose

PlainSimpleGarak ,

You tell’em, Best Friend.

sharkfucker420 ,
@sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml avatar

Thank you @satansmaggotycumfart for making this site a better place o7

You give me bender vibes

whostosay ,

I’m sure he greatly appreciated that, Sharkfucker420

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