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distantsounds , in Biden, Trump Die 2 Minutes Apart Holding Hands

joy

dojan , (edited ) in It's amazing so many people are able to use English as a second language.
@dojan@lemmy.world avatar

What I think is interesting about the word flea market is that it’s a calque in pretty much all languages.

The Swedish word is “loppis”, which is a cutesy colloquial term for “loppmarknad.” Loppa, meaning flea, and marknad meaning market.
Flohmarkt in German also means lit. “flea market.”
Marche aux puces is French, where “puce” means flea, I think this might be the origin of the term.
Japanese has the casual term フリマ (fleama), short for フリーマーケット, which is just the English term “flea market”, there’s also the term 蚤の市, just meaning “market of fleas.”

I believe Portuguese calls it a “thieves’ market”, but Spanish, Italian, Russian, Turkish, Dutch, and Mandarin all use their own native words for “flea market”; mercado de pulgas, mercato delle pulci, Блошиный рынок, Bit Pazarı, Vlooienmarkt, 跳蚤市场.

For all of the concepts and such that are identical across cultures, few things have universal names. Typically they enter the language as loanwords as well (e.g. karaoke, from Japanese ‘空オケ’, hollow orchestra), so the term “flea market” stands out to me. I’m sure there are lots of other similar things I’m not aware of though.


Edit: It’s worth mentioning that other than Swedish (native), English, and Japanese, I don’t speak any of the other languages. I’ve asked a Russian-American friend about the Russian term, and a friend in Taiwan about the Mandarin term. Otherwise I’ve checked dictionaries and the like. Don’t take my word as fact, I’m not a linguist. It was just a pattern I found interesting, because the term itself is so particular. Any and all corrections are more than welcome.

I’m also delighted by the discussion this has sparked! 💖

FlyingSquid OP ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

That reminds me of the word ‘Frank,’ which was used by the Byzantines to essentially mean ‘all those non-Roman barbarians to the west of us’ and which, after the Crusades, spread as a word across Asia meaning ‘Europeans.’

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farang

lars ,

Frankly frankly reminds me of those folks from the north of Gaul

dojan ,
@dojan@lemmy.world avatar

Thank you for sharing! I had not heard of this before. I particularly enjoyed this bit

Farang khi nok (Thai: ฝรั่งขี้นก, lit. ‘bird-droppings Farang’), also used in Lao, is slang commonly used as an insult to a person of white race, equivalent to white trash, as khi means feces and nok means bird, referring to the white color of bird-droppings

That’s so colourful. I love it.

It also made me think of the fictional race in Star Trek, the Ferengi. At least according to Wikipedia that is precisely the origin of their name!

MissJinx ,
@MissJinx@lemmy.world avatar

deleted_by_author

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  • Mouselemming ,

    Are you referring to Brazil Portuguese and Portugal Portuguese?

    (I’m just randomly curious. And while I’m asking,)

    In which country is it Mercado de Pulgas? Do you know if the other one uses Mercado de WhateverThievesisinthatPortuguese?

    az04 ,

    In European Portuguese it’s “Feira da Ladra”, or “Fair of the (female) Thieve”

    dojan ,
    @dojan@lemmy.world avatar

    I started talking to a dude from Brazil a couple of months ago, and was blown away just by how different Brazilian Portuguese is from Portuguese, even just phonetically. I should’ve probably mentioned that I really only speak English, Swedish, and Japanese, so any other examples are ones that I’ve dug up in lexicons and the like, so there may be terms that are direct translations but not actually used colloquially.

    I can totally see different words being used between Brazilian Portuguese and Portugal-Portuguese.

    manucode ,
    @manucode@infosec.pub avatar

    Japanese fleama though appears to be a loan word and not a calque like the rest.

    MacNCheezus ,
    @MacNCheezus@lemmy.today avatar

    Now this guy is paying attention!

    trashgirlfriend ,

    Wouldn’t it be both? Assuming 蚤の市 and フリーマーケット have the same meaning.

    manucode ,
    @manucode@infosec.pub avatar

    I assume that 蚤の市 is a loan word and フリーマーケット a calque. But I don’t speak any Japanese.

    randint ,
    @randint@lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz avatar

    No, it’s the other way around. 蚤 means flea and 市 means market. フリーマーケット sounds like flea market.

    dojan ,
    @dojan@lemmy.world avatar

    蚤の市

    Yep! nomi no ichi. Nomi (蚤) means flea, and ichi (市) means market, no (の) is a possessive particle making it “flea’s market” or “market of flea”

    dojan ,
    @dojan@lemmy.world avatar

    This is true, I don’t know which word came first. I’d wager a guess that 蚤の市 predates フリーマーケット, but it’s really just a stab in the dark on the basis that English loanwords feel more modern, and it feels unlikely that a calque would be created after a loanword has been widely adopted.

    BehindTheBarrier ,

    Pretty much anything in katakana in Japan is loanwords.

    Very interesting about flew markets though, Norway is the same as Sweden here.

    wide_eyed_stupid ,
    @wide_eyed_stupid@lemmy.world avatar

    Vlooienmarkt in Dutch, also literally flea market.

    Edit: Nvm, I’m blind, I see you already mentioned it.

    211 ,

    Add Finnish to the list, “kirpputori” = flea market.

    dojan ,
    @dojan@lemmy.world avatar

    Is tori ever used like plaza, like the Swedish word “torg?” The way I read tori in my head makes it sound almost homophonous with torg, hence why I ask.

    Paraneoptera , (edited )

    A number of Slavic, Baltic, Norse, (and also Finnic languages like Finnish and Estonian) use some form of this word for market. It originated in Proto-slavic and passed through Old Norse into descendant languages.

    en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/търгъ#Old_East_Slavic

    The most interesting thing is that the root appears to have borrowed into Finnish twice, once probably from Slavic (as turku) and once from Old Norse (as tori).

    cor315 ,

    thieves market

    I’ve definitely been to a few flea markets where I thought all this stuff was stolen.

    dojan ,
    @dojan@lemmy.world avatar

    Aha! See, my first thought was that maybe it had something to do with pickpockets being present!

    Theme ,

    Unimportant extra: it’s not a calque in British English, because we don’t use it (to the best of my knowledge). Like a potluck, we have the concept but not a word for it, and we don’t use the American phrases either

    We have a car boot sale, but that’s literal

    There’s probably regional exceptions

    Paraneoptera ,

    Perhaps the Giant London Flea Market will start a trend: queenelizabetholympicpark.co.uk/…/giant-london-fl…

    kemsat ,

    It’s almost like most of those languages you mentioned, had their speakers go everywhere around the world, approximately 500 years ago, and they colonized most of the world, causing many places around the world to use similar idioms…

    Karyoplasma ,

    “Hippopotamus” is another one. It derives from the Greek words hippos (horse) and potamos (river) and this concept of river horse is present in many different languages:

    • German: Flusspferd (lit. river horse)
    • Dutch: Rivierpaard (lit. river horse)
    • Finnish: Virtahepo (lit. stream horse)
    • Danish: Flodhest (lit. flood horse)
    • Chinese: 河马 (lit. river horse)
    • Arabic: فرس النهر (lit. river horse)
    • French, Spanish, Italian and Portuguese use variations of hippopotamus.

    Tiny variations exist as well:

    • Hungarian: Víziló (lit. water horse)
    • Afrikaans: Seekoei (lit. sea cow)
    dojan ,
    @dojan@lemmy.world avatar

    Aye! Flodhäst in Swedish, and カバ (河馬, 河 river, 馬 horse) in Japanese.

    Smallwater ,

    Actually, the Dutch translation is “Nijlpaard”, not “rivierpaard”.

    But, it uses the Dutch name for the Nile river, “Nijl”. So it’s lit. “Nilehorse” - which is technically the same as “river horse”, just more geographically specific.

    PhlubbaDubba , in Maybe Ukraine would win if we gave them bigger planes?

    Zelensky looks like he’s about to explain that he’s not mad at us, just dissapointed.

    flambonkscious ,

    If it wasn’t all so serious, I feel like there’s a self-mockery career in there somewhere

    Leate_Wonceslace ,
    @Leate_Wonceslace@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    I mean he was a comedian.

    GlitchyDigiBun ,
    @GlitchyDigiBun@lemmy.world avatar

    It would be awesome if he picked it up again after. Imagine Putin’s shame. Empire crumbling, your own state turning on you, the world laughing. And this guy who beat you doesn’t take your kingdom, doesn’t rule with an iron fist to match your own. They just fuck off and tell jokes about your failure until retirement.

    flambonkscious ,

    Fucking awesome power play

    flambonkscious ,

    I’d forgotten that! Sheesh, thats some dark material

    cmbabul , in Overthrow a Government and Install a Puppet Dictator? The CIA will do it for Bananas!

    Straight up just listening to Behind the Bastards/It Could Happen Here, the Dollop, or Knowledge Fight will make you sound like a crazy person if you talk about them to someone who has no interest in history or current events

    Jimbo ,
    @Jimbo@yiffit.net avatar

    No you don’t understand, they were turning seals into oil!!!

    ThatWeirdGuy1001 , in My brain to itself
    @ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world avatar

    Meanwhile my brain

    “Apple bottom JEANS!

    Boots with the JEANS!

    The whole club was lookin at JEANS!”

    PunnyName ,
    BakerBagel ,

    Damn, absolutely brutal to see i have never had an original thought.

    olicvb ,
    @olicvb@lemmy.ca avatar

    Worry not, the collective is what makes us stronger!

    PunnyName ,

    Just know, you’re the first person who’s ever told me this. In the many years on the Internet, I’ve never felt like I had an original thought. Cheers!

    nickwitha_k ,

    Shawty got JEANS, JEANS, JEANS, JEANS, JEANS

    Soggytoast , in Day one and done

    Sometimes I think about getting pizza hut, then I remember it costs 36$ for 2 pizzas, so I just go to the store for two 6$ pizzas

    SpeedLimit55 ,

    Domino’s does 2+ medium 2 topping for $6-7 each. Or you can get chicken or other random things like tots and bread. Not the best in any category but not awful so if you just need to feed some people it’s good by volume . My local pizza places are significantly better quality and price.

    Sam_Bass , (edited )

    I like the totinos party packs. You can fold them up like an extra large soft taco and fill it with whatever you got on hand

    rickyrigatoni ,

    How is pizza hut still in business

    umulu ,
    @umulu@lemmy.world avatar

    Because, like many other fast food businesses, the prices have gone up across all of them.

    capital ,

    How many times do we need to tell you? No one out pizzas the hut.

    Katana314 ,

    The smartest thing is to buy the dough, sauce, and mozzarella yourself for $18. …wait-

    weeeeum ,

    Even pizza dough and sauce is a scam. You really got to do everything from scratch.

    On the bright side you can make a big ass batch of sauce and dough and make your own frozen pizzas to bake when you don’t feel like cooking.

    state_electrician ,

    The Italian place here has Pizza Wednesdays, where every pizza is 7 Euro. That’s the only time I buy pizza.

    AnthropomorphicCat , in Choose your difficulty
    @AnthropomorphicCat@lemmy.world avatar

    Mexico is so hard-as-fuck that was not included in the list.

    pancakes ,
    @pancakes@sh.itjust.works avatar

    I used to work with a guy that moved from Mexico city after his favourite cafe got gunned down by the cartel, his neighbor’s family got beheaded, and a family friend’s daughter got kidnapped.

    Wilzax ,

    Japan, Greenland, Cuba, New Zealand too apparently

    jas0n ,

    New Zealand is just happy to be on the map.

    HappycamperNZ ,

    Wooo!!! We’re visible

    MystikIncarnate ,

    I’m in Canada, and I want to get those stickers that are cut in the shape of new Zealand, so I can add it to every public map I see.

    … New Zealand as a service.

    slaacaa ,

    It was a toxic server, PvP only. Glad it was banned

    dumbass ,
    @dumbass@leminal.space avatar

    Filled with hackers giving themselves infinite money glitches.

    ICastFist ,
    @ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

    Those fuckers are still here tho, all friends with the admins. Fucking fuckers

    MystikIncarnate ,

    I mean, neither was new Zealand.

    neutron ,

    Japan is unlocked after NG+. Korea (North and South) is sold separately as DLC.

    LostWanderer , in I diagnose you with dystopia

    ROFL It’s tragic that Amazon is in the insurance game…That’s when you know it’s a true dystopian present getting started in full gear.

    ryathal ,

    This looks like a low end concierge medicine program more than insurance.

    LostWanderer ,

    I just tried to say something sarcastic but, yeah; In truth, I do agree with your assessment of Amazon OneHealth. As it’s a hybrid of a low end concierge medicine program with a tiny amount of insurance-like benefits.

    FunkyMonk ,

    Started? Oh sweet summers child, Sony has been making more in the life insurance raquet than anything else Sony makes for decades... and they are one of the few megacorps I still buy from.

    LostWanderer ,

    I was never aware of that fact, as I never expected that Sony would be in on that kind of scheme! There’s too much going on and I simply can’t take it all in. However, this doesn’t surprise me as megacorps will do whatever it takes to make as much money as possible! Since buying power makes right (up until they get a firm slap on the wrist). 🥴

    grue ,

    Sony… and they are one of the few megacorps I still buy from.

    Dear God, why? Between the continuous pushing of proprietary formats and the fucking rootkit they inflicted on people via music CDs almost two decades ago, they were one of the first megacorps I started boycotting!

    Bonje OP ,
    @Bonje@lemmy.world avatar

    Highjacking to shout out a good method to the madness that is American health insurance.

    A terrible guide to the terrible terminology of the U.S. health insurance by brian david gilbert

    Kyrrrr , in eyecandyn't
    henfredemars ,

    Oh god my eyes

    What a terrible day to know how to read

    Ragdoll_X , (edited )
    @Ragdoll_X@lemmy.world avatar

    That’s exactly the kind of comment I’d expect from a MF called “SatansMaggotyCumFart”

    Shadowedcross ,

    Ahhh, the duality of man.

    objectionist ,

    This is not the first time that legend has posted.

    https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/dcadd122-4ee7-46f0-9a2f-967e132a1419.jpeg

    taanegl , in What a deal!

    If there’s a Toyota underneath, then this is a better Cybertruck than Tesla’s Cybertruck.

    Emptiness , in Stuck
    @Emptiness@lemmy.world avatar

    Wait, what are you doing step vacuum?

    NeptuneOrbit , in It's important to get a good interest rate

    I looked into using this type of service to pay for a modest purchase. A luxury of sorts. Something I had the cash for, but felt weird about paying all $600 or so for. I thought, maybe an interest free loan would be cool?

    So i start to pay for the thing with klarna or whatever. And I see it’s only a six week loan. Wait, my credit card is a free six week loan (give or take). Wtf. I’d have to pay the thing off faster than just using a credit card.

    I talked myself out of buying whatever it was.

    BluesF ,

    Six weeks seems very short, all the services I’ve seen are three payments over three months.

    BowtiesAreCool ,

    PayPal pay in 4 is 6 weeks. It splits into 4 payments, 1 due now, 1 after 2 weeks, one after 4 weeks and one after 6 weeks

    thatKamGuy ,

    I’ve used similar services to this in the past; not because I couldn’t afford something up front - but because I wanted to amortise the purchase across a pretty short (8 week) period.

    Why not just use a credit card? I did. As a semi-regular user of the service, it was set up in such a way that it would bill the first 25% of my purchase after 2 weeks, and again every 2 weeks after that.

    So not only was I getting an additional interest-free time stacking the 2 week period with my CC’s billing cycle; but I was earning loyalty/rewards points with both programs simultaneously.

    GrymEdm , in Either that, or how this would present investment opportunity for the savvy
    herrcaptain , in Always CYA

    I feel like CK3 or Rimworld are better used for this cover.

    A legitimate question one might ask in CK3 is “How do I kill the pope?”

    In Rimworld you might ask, “How do I make hats out of human leather?”

    Unless modding has gotten out of control, I don’t think either of those are possible in Minecraft.

    RandomVideos ,

    The holy mod allows you to summon the pope and numerous mods add a way to convert rotten flesh into leather, which is dropped by a mob really similar to the playet(i couldnt find a better mod for that)

    herrcaptain ,

    Ok, I should have guessed that mods would make things weird.

    Thrashy ,
    @Thrashy@lemmy.world avatar

    The heyday of the Eve Online subreddit was great for this shit, and it was always good for a laugh when something that made complete sense in-game hit r/all and started freaking people out. Some bangers were:

    • How do I sell a hanger full of corpses?
    • I just killed someone for the first time! I’m so excited!
    • Does anyone know if drug production is a good source of income?
    • I want to kill someone, I need help.
    • Did you ever regret killing someone?
    • Industry Question: Drug Labs
    • Assasination Request
    threelonmusketeers ,

    Anything similar over at !eveonline?

    BrokenGlepnir ,

    How do I EAT the pope.

    melpomenesclevage ,

    in rimworld, most things you do sound lime crimes against humanity.

    lowleveldata , in Let π = 5

    That’s how you know math is OP when you can calculate volumes in parallel worlds where circles don’t even looks like circles

    DumbAceDragon ,
    @DumbAceDragon@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Ah, Manhattan. Where pi = 4, and circles are diamonds.

    carpelbridgesyndrome ,

    Bringing new meaning to the phrase “assume cows are spherical”

    Excrubulent ,
    @Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

    “Assume a spherical cow, which for our purposes can be approximated as a cube.”

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