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Cowbee ,

Socialism/Communism/Anarchism. Barely anyone who actually understands them and the theory supporting them hates them, but tons of people have been fed Red Scare propaganda on the matter.

RobertOwnageJunior ,

Maybe because most real life examples of those systems haven’t worked out great.

Cowbee ,

Why?

PineRune ,

I think most real-life examples have been plagued by corruption to the point that they fall into a different category altogether.

Cowbee ,

Historical examples, like Revolutionary Catalonia for Anarchism, and the USSR, Cuba, Maoist China, Vietnam, etc. for Marxism-Leninism, absolutely count as Socialist and should be learned from, both the good and bad.

If you dismiss them as “not real Socialism,” you fail to learn from what did work in those instances, like literacy rates and life expectancy skyrocketing. If you dismiss the bad, you make the equal mistake of not accounting for the flaws in systems like Soviet Democracy, which resulted in a corrupt Politburo with outsized power.

Study them in detail and find what to take and what to leave behind.

federatingIsTooHard ,
@federatingIsTooHard@lemmy.world avatar

communism is a classless stateless moneyless society. is that how you’d describe any of those societies? i wouldn’t. because it’s not true. but there are certainly anarchist and communist societies that have existed.

UnrepententProcrastinator ,

I think we should learn from that. Maybe all forms of power solely resting within the governing function invites corruption.

I haven’t given up yet on it because capitalism is definitely not working right now but there is a form of communism that you can have an informed and rational fear of.

Cowbee ,

Generally, if you have a system where more powerful people are more influential, you invite yourself to corruption.

In Capitalism, this expresses itself in Capitalists buying politicians.

In Marxism-Leninism, this is expressed in the upper Soviets becoming more entrenched and corrupt.

The solution for Socialism is to make the upper rungs directly accountable to the masses. The solution for Capitalism is to abolish Capitalism.

nitefox ,

The solution to corruption is to stop being human. There, I said it.

Cowbee ,

Nah, just make systems that are resistant to it and more accountable to the masses. Simple.

nitefox ,

Like ancient Athens! It failed obviously.

Or like Ancient Rome! It failed, obviously.

Or like any modern democracy! It failed, obviously.

The problem is that “masses” are truly a reflection of their government and vice versa, more so in a democracy. You take for a given “the mass” takes good decisions but this, again, works only in the ideal world.

And if you think things are better than the past, think again: internet and social media spread so much crap and allowed people to talk too freely, so now you get Joe the Farmer believing he is some sort of genius cause he knows that there is big plot and the corps are covering it up; you get Dalila the economist believe she knows anything about software development; you get Dario the cheese eater believe he is a medievalist just because he read (and ate) “the cheese and the worms”. And all of this people wouldn’t give shit about the “so-called” experts, cause they studied it on eatashit.altervista.org so they must know better than the college-cuck

Cowbee ,

The problem with democracy isn’t democracy, but allowing people with entrenched power to control the flow of information in their favor, vs the masses. Democracy is a good system.

nitefox ,

I don’t disagree with you but how do you prevent misinformation, manipulation and polarisation?

Cowbee ,

Remove power structures that are inherently unjustly hierarchical, and remove the profit motive in general.

People profit from misinformation and entrenched power, if they don’t have that then democracy works better.

nitefox ,

That goes for anything, every system ever made by humans. Even the first forms of democracy, including direct democracy, falls under this umbrella. After all in the theory-world, where everything is ideal, humans do behave good so communism (but any form of good government is possible, even anarchy or a good autocracy).

In the real world, though, humans behave like humans so you get corruption and weird power play. So even if you got a nice working system where every human support society, it will inevitably fail under corruption after the first generations of those who put in place such a system die; which is exactly what happens throughout history each time, even in Athens.

Tldr: theoretical perfect system cannot exist in practice since we are flawed creatures

federatingIsTooHard ,
@federatingIsTooHard@lemmy.world avatar

yes, they have

RIP_Cheems ,
@RIP_Cheems@lemmy.world avatar

Name one that didn’t end with a dictator or mistreat/scare its citizens into submission.

federatingIsTooHard ,
@federatingIsTooHard@lemmy.world avatar

the swamp maroons

OurToothbrush ,

Cuba, a poor blockaded small island nation, has a higher life expectancy than the global hegemon and richest nation ever

The USSR went from a monarchist backwater to a industrial society, defeating the nazis and sending the first satellite into space, in the span of 40 years.

China, under socialism, is now on track to shatter US hegemony through the power of socialist economic management and mutually beneficial cooperation.

rottingleaf ,

Historians studying them don’t hate, true, but we also don’t hate plague or dog shit on the road.

Cowbee ,

That’s a bit of a non-answer, isn’t it? I’m clearly referring to implementing leftist structures today, not historically.

rottingleaf ,

Never tried for real, I see.

Why would one hate right ideas then, of the libertarian kind.

Cowbee ,

Read my other comment, it absolutely has been tried. If your point is that the relatively few historical examples are a sufficient sampling of data to determine that people sharing tools can never work, then I’m afraid you don’t understand numbers, nor historical analysis.

You can learn from what has and has not worked, and analyze structures. It’s possible! You just have to do it.

rottingleaf ,

If your point is …

You know, of course, that the answer to that “if” is usually “no”, and this is called a strawman argument.

… then I’m afraid …

No reason to be afraid! Sing and dance and hug your family, friends and house animals.

… relatively few historical examples … people sharing tools …

People have been sharing tools since eating less fortunate breeds of people, the optimal architecture of that is the point of contention.

Cowbee ,

More dodging, great! What’s your point?

rottingleaf ,

I’ve literally finished my comment with it.

Cowbee ,

You pretended you had a point, but left it open.

rottingleaf ,

Leaving it open is a valid political position of making efficiency more important than ideology.

I don’t know which architectures may be invented in the future to work, I’m not against them coming from leftist premises, but I’ve met fewer leftists interested in even imagining them than libertarians or even conservatives.

When most leftists are too busy with hating on groups of people and thinking about what others own, it’s really hard to talk to them about anything real.

Cowbee ,

Efficiency is more important than ideology, correct. That’s why I’m a leftist.

Don’t worry, leftists aren’t hating on groups of people (except fascists), just inefficient and failing systems. It’s the right that hates on groups of people.

rottingleaf ,

Leftist ideologies include dogmatic statements. Just like all other ideologies. Otherwise we wouldn’t use the word “ideology” at all.

If this were true, you’d say that left ideas are the closest to your expectation of what’s best and that’d be fine, and not call yourself leftist. Now it’s as if you are putting ideology above practice.

Which would be the same as me always feeling as if I were lying while, say, saying that I’m a libertarian or a distributist, because I have no permanent attachment to any ideology, just these seem sane now. So I rarely say that and feel bad when I do.

Which efficient and not failing systems does your kind of leftists propose?

Cowbee ,

That’s entirely stupid. Ideologies aren’t about dogmatism, but about coherent groups of conclusions based on underlying analysis.

It’s pretty telling that you out yourself as a Libertarian though, lmao.

I propose worker ownership of the Means of Production.

rottingleaf ,

Ideologies aren’t about dogmatism, but about coherent groups of conclusions based on underlying analysis.

This sentence translates to choosing a model and then trying to hammer the reality to fit under it. Which is obviously dogmatism.

The funniest part is that leftist pseudointellectualism, where there is no actual discussion happening, but a leftist thinks there is because of the tone they use. Also hints at them acting this way in other situations, that is, being used to dogmatism.

Without dogmatism people change models like tools, each one for its own job. They don’t call themselves any kind of -ist.

It’s pretty telling that you out yourself as a Libertarian though, lmao.

Literally the opposite of what I’ve said, lmao. Reading comprehension skills on par with your self-identification.

Olhonestjim ,

Well, those who most benefit from the status quo also understand those concepts quite well, but oppose them.

rekabis ,

If only there wasn’t a wealthy, parasitic, world-dominating country which would violently overthrow (or at least try) any country which didn’t kowtow to capitalism, and the Parasite Class.

Teppichbrand , (edited )

VEGANISM!
It’s great for your health, we’d solve like 25% of the climate catastrophe overnight and it redeems billions of our fellow earthlings from the unimaginable suffering we inflict on them 24/7.
It’s a ridiculously obvious and easy step we should take as a species, yet even hardcore leftists turn into irrational idiots and go full Bullshit Bingo when you bring it up. Because they have become accustomed to a taste.

BonesOfTheMoon ,

Best thing I ever did for myself.

june ,

I think it’s less veganism and more how noisy and evangelical the loudest vegans are.

If you’d just said veganism, I’d agree, but you went on to emphatically tell us all the reasons why veganism is better. All legit, sure, but all the underlining gives it a particularly condescending tone. It’s not veganism that irritates me, it’s how condescending so many vegans become. Same camp as CrossFit for me. They’re both cultures I don’t really care to be a part of.

Teppichbrand , (edited )

Eating animals is doing so much harm on a personal and global scale, yet people mostly choose to ignore it. So we get louder to confront your cognitive dissonance. I know it is annoying to you, I was annoyed too. But it’s necessary and it’s working. We’re not a cult, quite the opposite: Vegans act according to scientific facts. Do you want to have a heart attack? No. Do you like torturing animals? No! Do want to wreck our planet to the point our children won’t be able to live on it anymore? If course not. Veganism is not the only answer to all this, but no solution will suffice without us stopping to abuse animals. Think about that when you’re out in the supermarket next time. It feels good to actually live up to you ethical values.
Also, #7 and , bingo!

june ,

Excellent example. Thanks.

For the record, there’s no dissonance. I know well what I’m doing and recognize that I am choosing the easier option. Call me a villain, I don’t care. I live my life as best I can and to the best of my ability which you’ve made it clear is immoral and lesser than you.

Teppichbrand , (edited )

So 10 years ago it was “STFU, you’re wrong”, now it’s “STFU, you’re right”? Changing diet is a journey, I didn’t go full vegan from one day to the other. I’m sure you’re not a villain and hope you change your mind sometime. There are many great plant-based foods waiting for you on the shelves.

PotatoesFall ,

I try to tell people to ditch beef as a compromise. I’m flexetarian myself and try to avoid meat, but beef is by far the worst offender when it comes to climate.

I think the average person doesn’t want to give up all meat dairy and eggs all in one go. Removing beef is highly effective and a first step into a more conscious diet.

afraid_of_zombies ,

Pretty much what I did. Meat once a week and almost always birds. Maybe a hamburger or pho twice a year, and always with my family.

blindsight ,

Eggs are a super food, too. They’re cheap, delicious, and have dense nutrition. And, if you live anywhere close to rural, you can get farm-fresh eggs from ethically treated, well fed chickens for cheap.

We minimize our meat consumption, but we eat lots of eggs, and I don’t see any ethical concerns with people’s backyard chicken coops.

afraid_of_zombies ,

Because they have become accustomed to a taste

I have been toying with baking the last two months and vegan bread is a challenge. It isn’t just taste. Take my basic bread and cut out milk+butter and all I have left is oil. The bread rises funny and the crust is totally different. Yes I have tried a good friend of mine has a dairy allergy.

Just saying it isn’t like there is a ready solution I can grab.

Teppichbrand ,

I agree, changing your diet is something you need to be willing to do, because it takes time to learn new things. Some take babysteps, some go all in. It is possible to cook and bake delicious food without animal products. So have fun learning!

LSNLDN ,

Vegan.bingo that’s amazing I’m gonna just refer to that for every one of those conversations from now on

Donebrach ,
@Donebrach@lemmy.world avatar

The dead animal flesh is already there and I honor its sacrifice by eating it. That is my position and my purpose.

PopcornPrincess ,

Satanists get persecuted a lot; although, they do a lot to protect religious freedom.

adorable_yangire ,
@adorable_yangire@lemmy.world avatar

most satanists are just cute in personality lol

nitefox ,

Lucifer was kinda right ngl

TheControlled ,

And most of them are just trolling-atheists/agnostics.

chetradley ,

It’s important to note that when you hear a story about Satanists using freedom of religion to install a statue of baphomet in a public space, or citing religious freedom acts to protect safe access to abortion, you’re hearing about the Satanic Temple. When you hear about Satanists practicing “chaos magick” or talking about how liking blue cheese means you’re gay, you’re hearing about the Church of Satan. Here’s a handy reference from TST: https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/6395638e-fd1c-4636-963b-c86edd9fdac3.jpeg

pivot_root ,

I really should get around to setting up a recurrent donation to TST at some point. Especially with the recent stuff they’ve done to oppose fundamentalist religions being given special privileges in state government and education, they deserve more ongoing funding.

dutchkimble ,

Oh man I didn’t know they didn’t believe in an actual Satan!

DLSantini ,

MSG

Omega_Haxors ,

I learned the hatred/fear of MSG comes from white supremacists feeling threatened by Asian food, so they demonized what made it awesome.

Original ,

I always hear this one, it really isn’t bad for you it seems

Disco_Dougie ,

MSG is an objectively good flavor.

Zehzin ,
@Zehzin@lemmy.world avatar

Possums. They are immune to rabies and eat disease-spreading ticks. Salute your local possum

jbd ,

Opossum

BradleyUffner ,

Both are correct.

jbd ,

But one is ambiguous.

cheese_greater ,

U mean o-mbiguous hehe

Zargag ,

Australian possums in NZ destroy the ecosystem. North American possums in North America are cool though

afraid_of_zombies ,

Comic sans.

It is literally a font. Sometimes when some corporate partner is annoying me I will pdf lock a document, with a signature, to them in comic sans.

Melatonin ,

Ugly-ass Nancy and Sluggo looking shit, what are you, five? Take that comic sans tf out of here.

pivot_root ,

His point demonstrated.

morbidcactus ,

It’s also supposed to be an accessible/helpful font for dyslexics.

saigot ,

That’s a happy accident not an intentional feature of the font. I think modern fonts that specifically target dyslexia are preferred, I’ve heard good stuff about opendyslexic.org

ULS ,

Age gaps in partners.

june ,

Depends on the gap lol

ULS ,

Why?

june ,

13/30 is rather problematic

ULS ,

What’s 13/30 mean? I hope you don’t mean 13yo. Why would you think that’s what I meant by age gap?

june ,

… a 13 year old with a 30 year old…

ULS ,

Why would you assume that from just saying “age gap”?

june ,

… I was making a joke about it by saying ‘depends on the age gap lol’…

Why are you getting defensive?

Ofc consenting adult relationships with large age gaps are generally fine with some exceptions.

ULS ,

Because child abuse is a weird thing to joke about.

june ,

If you wanna be annoyingly puritanical about it go ahead. I didn’t mean to offend your sensibilities.

prole ,

I got the joke. Made perfect sense in the context of the thread.

HaywardT ,

That’s not about the gap. That’s about the age. That’s an entirely different thing.

whogivesashit ,

13/13 is fine. It is definitely about the gap wtf?

HaywardT ,

So 13/20 is the same as 33/40. Gap is the same. Or 33/51 if you want percentages.

whogivesashit ,

Ok fair point. Though I’ll say in my experience I don’t see people being weird out by 33/40 or even 33/51 in most cases. It’s almost always with someone in their early 20s and it comes off weird when you know that the brain isn’t even finished developing until years later. I think once someone reaches around 25-30 then they are truly considered “adult” in a more broad social sense.

Common complaint from people is that we send “kids” to war, but obviously most don’t. We just know that’s it’s fucked up to make young people 18- early 20s make life altering decisions.

HaywardT ,

The brain is constantly changing. You are constantly changing. People do judge and do it very vocally. I think some are projecting and some are jealous. I suspect they will end up on the wrong side of history.

Ones values and interests change as life changes around you. Rather than trying to squeeze into the mold of those in your age group I prefer to spend time and conversation with those that share my current values, interedts, desires.

When I look back, and when I talk to others I find that age gap relationships have been some of the best.

whogivesashit ,

Also anyone dating legal teenagers as an adult are weird AF. Gives off “Id go lower but the law won’t let me”

HaywardT ,

I concur. It looks more like manipulation then a relationship.

Rinna , (edited )
@Rinna@lemm.ee avatar

Male abuse/SA victims. It’s already not taken seriously enough when it happens to women, but when it happens to a guy they get put down even more and told to “man up”, sometimes even by people who’d support them if the sexes were swapped.

Baahb ,

Being one of those victims, it’s honestly worse than that. My (very former) best friend went on to marry and raise kids with the woman that he knew SA’d me.

dfc09 ,

Even more so, it’s turned into a hot button topic where people will be actively pissed of at you if you try to bring it up in discussion, calling it a “dog whistle” for nazi / anti-women ideology.

Rinna ,
@Rinna@lemm.ee avatar

I’m a female queer SA survivor if they ever try that bullshit on me lmao.

thebardingreen , (edited )
@thebardingreen@lemmy.starlightkel.xyz avatar

I’m a cishet white male feminist and proud ally… And it took me years to process my own sexual assault as an assault. I was supposed to be happy that it happened and I got to fuck a pretty girl, right? So my confusing feelings about it must have been stupid and out of place, even though I was drunk and having an emotional breakdown when it happened. Even later on, I considered it a “bad decision” until a woman I was with challenged me to reverse the genders. She said something like “Imagine I’m drunk, having an emotional breakdown, abandoned by my friends and end up at the apartment of a man I barely know because they left without me and no one made sure I got home OK. This man starts kissing me, undresses me, lays me in his bed, starts going down on me and then puts his penis in me… with NO protection or discussion. He never asks if I’m OK with it, never asks if I want to, he just does this to me. What just happened to me??” And I was like “Oh yeah! That IS what happened to me!”

But NOW I frame it as a way toxic masculinity / patriarchy is bad /harmful to men and when I frame it that way I get ZERO hate. Toxic masculinity told me I was supposed to want that to happen to me, supposed to brag about it to my friends, supposed to collect the memory as a notch on my belt. The patriarchy told me it was my right and privilege to have a woman fuck me and take care of me like that. Toxic masculinity also told HER her behaviour was OK, that OBVIOUSLY a man would be into it, that I was getting lucky and I should be happy and excited a hot girl like her would want to do that to me. I forgave her easily, because I’m SURE she didn’t process it as SA either… for the same bullshit cultural reasons.

Male SA survivors get hate because they they get pedestalized and used by MRA assholes as reasons to “bhut whut about…” at feminism. And THAT is unfortunately real. I don’t think people hate Male SA survivors, I think they hate MRA bullshit and with good reason.

Flamingflowerz ,

Breeders who responsibly create a hybrid breed for sporting or companion purposes. Doesn't matter if all applicable health testing is done and every puppy has a home in advance before it's even born, people seem to immediately think backyard breeder if a dog isn't purebred.

TruthAintEasy ,
@TruthAintEasy@kbin.social avatar

The man who created Labradoodles regrets his actions

JackFrostNCola ,

Can we find the pug guy? Theres someone responsible for some animal suffering

Cysioland ,
@Cysioland@lemmygrad.ml avatar

But pugs are “purebred” which further highlights the point. A pug crossbreed with a longer-snouted breed would probably be healthier. You can’t reliably criticize hybrid breeds without criticizing breeding as a whole.

All breeds were created by crossbreeding. But for some reason the society invented a cutoff point beyond which crossbreeding is not okay.

fruitycoder ,

How come?

TruthAintEasy ,
@TruthAintEasy@kbin.social avatar

Because Labradoodles wound up very cute but inherited all the bad traits from both breeds and almost none of the good. Just a bundle of nerves and health issues, or so Ive heard/read

ugh ,

I think this applies to every breeder, regardless if they do pure breeds or trendy mutts.

I’d rather mix breeds gain popularity than pure breeds

ICastFist ,
@ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

The idea of using public transportation. It’s something for “them” (the poor), not for “me” (rich). Changes significantly from country to country, I suppose, but it’s a prevalent thought here.

WeirdGoesPro ,
@WeirdGoesPro@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Public transportation is good. Sanitation on public transportation in America is bad.

I got very adept at touching nothing while riding a bumpy subway car in New York, but even that couldn’t always save me from the puddle of piss that ran like a heat seeking stream from the legs of the mentally ill.

dingus ,

Idk at least in the US, riding a train is a nice experience. I liked it. But riding busses is often rather unpleasant. But I only have limited experience to only a portion of the US.

cali_ash ,

here

That certainly clears things up …

Cataphract ,

Is that necessary to clear up though? It’s a perfectly fine anecdotal statement that doesn’t require exacts unless you’re just trying to argue they’re wrong. No one else is having problems responding with the information provided.

ICastFist ,
@ICastFist@programming.dev avatar

Brazil as a whole. Better?

KingThrillgore ,
@KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml avatar

I noticed in the States that if its a bus, its a chariot for the poor. If its a train, its for everyone.

knexcar ,

TBF considering how slow/unreliable and infrequent it tends to be, it’s hard to believe anyone would use it if they didn’t have other options. Even in my city (where buses run 30 minutes instead of every hour as is common elsewhere), it takes an hour and 15 minutes to get somewhere that’s a straight 15 minute freeway drive by car. And it’s worse in larger cities where buses are delayed by traffic such that you miss your transfer.

And it’s not like improvements like BRT or light rail will change it much considering how often they run in boulevards with 35mph speed limits and stop lights vs the 65mph grade separated freeways. Even a grade separated subway would be slower than driving unless it had spaced out stops, but then walking to said stops would take a lot of time (plus we couldn’t afford one, especially not one that actually serves the sprawl).

Under these conditions, it’s understandable to not even bother considering it as an option.

pingveno ,

I am by no means poor and I save a lot of money by not having a car, but the fact of the matter is that people give me rides more than I would like. Even in Portland, a city with relatively good transit for its size given that it’s in the US, most of the city is still quite inaccessible.

KyuubiNoKitsune ,

Trans people, seriously, they just want to live their lives in peace. They’re not here to radicalise anything or to “trick” anyone. They just want to get on with their lives and be left alone.

rosemash ,

It is a bit disingenuous to say they are just trying to live their lives in peace, they have chosen an antagonistic path by pushing to normalize the way gender is viewed in culture, which is an upset of the status quo, and that is radical by definition. it doesn’t matter what their motivations are for that to be true.

InputZero ,

Pulling out the big paint brush today I see.

skulblaka ,
@skulblaka@startrek.website avatar

And they choose this path because LGBT folks have been getting bullied, assaulted and murdered for just existing for about as long as civilization has existed. If they don’t stand up for themselves nobody else is going to do it for them.

The key word is “trying” - most of them are trying to live their lives largely without bothering anyone - except that “anyone” is composed of a lot of people that can’t put up with their existence. Not through any fault of the person, just because of the way they are.

I do get what you’re saying. But it’s a half step away from deriding them for their very existence, which is disgusting. They are attempting to break the status quo in the same way the civil rights movement did.

rosemash , (edited )

Edit: I won’t talk about this here.

I am just really jaded about how people talk about certain topics on social media even though I consider myself a progressive.

I have a sensitive spot for reddit/twitter rhetoric (very heavily emotionally skewed language isn’t helpful)

ada ,
@ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Yeah, because trans people are renowned for having lots of say in the way the media and politics present them…

CrowAirbrush ,

It’s similar to veganism, they yell really loud to make it known they want peace while at the sime time disturbing everyone else and expecting friendliness.

It’s like that annoying neighbour that blasts music at full volume just because he likes it and then he goes on to say he just wants to be left alone.

You can’t take the stage at a Rammstein concert and expect to just chill out there without getting thrown out.

GnomeKat ,
@GnomeKat@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

fuck off transphobe

CrowAirbrush ,

People can do whatever they want imo, go take that rammstein stage…just be realistic about what you’re gonna get as a result.

You feel like a woman and want to be one? Go ahead, i’d even date and or wife you if your personality is likeable i don’t care about your genitals and whatever makes you happy goes.

Understand that not everyone is going to agree with you, stay safe and be careful. Same goes for everyone else.

chocosoldier ,

when the disagreement is about whether we should be allowed continue existing it’s a bit much to handwave like that, and fuck you very much for deigning to not only frame it like that but 'splain it to us like we’re children. get bent.

KyuubiNoKitsune ,

People keep saying this, but what is expected when a minute fraction of the population has such a high rate of being murdered? What is expected when without making any fuss, legislators are constantly trying to legislate trans people out of existence, refusing healthcare, increasing the already disproportionate suicide rate, forcing them to do things that puts them in situations where the chance of being murdered is much higher.

These sentiments come from such a place of privilege, “I don’t have this problem, why are you getting on stage to shout about this, you should expect to be discriminated against and murdered” if you don’t see anything wrong with that, you should reevaluate your morals.

Socsa ,

Have you ever actually met any trans people? Because they don’t do that thing you said

nitefox ,

I’m trans, I hate talking about gender stuff

So yeah, they never did

whogivesashit ,

Literally. Outside of trusted circles you know what to expect from most of society

Cowbee ,
  1. This does not happen.
  2. Even if it was, are you really shitting on trans people for complaining about constantly being hate-crimed for sport?
PotatoesFall ,

the other replies to this comment reaaaally prove your point.

Are people really stupid enough to think that every single trans person is a loud screeching SJW?

Not to mention trans people are constantly under attack in most places and NEED to speak up.

afraid_of_zombies ,

Are people really stupid enough to think that every single trans person is a loud screeching SJW?

Even if they were so what? You have to be cynical about these things and figure out how much danger every given person represents. I am in far less danger from someone who yells loudly on Instagram compared to some proud boy marching on the street. One makes the internet kinda boring the other sets off bombs.

whogivesashit ,

Marginalized groups tend to be the loudest about oppression of all varieties.

Shelbyeileen ,
@Shelbyeileen@lemmy.world avatar

Furries. They’re some of the nicest people ever. I’m a cosplayer and our worlds intersect a lot. They raise more money for charity than any group as small as they are, they’re kind and accepting, and they’re wicked talented. I trust Furries before muggles anyday

LemmyKnowsBest ,

they’re wicked talented

Sincere question: what specifically are their talents?

alcoholicorn ,

Setting up/maintaining network infrastructure, coding, providing orgasms, UX design.

nicolauz ,

One of those is not like the others…

Damn design work.

current ,

generally furries are really good creatives in a wide variety of differnent areas

evranch ,

Diverting attention from other nerdy/niche groups who don’t seem weird at all in comparison?

UraniumBlazer ,

Art, animation, etc. See furry art to know more.

NineMileTower ,

No, thank you.

Ludrol ,
@Ludrol@szmer.info avatar

I saw on YT a furry that held several patents for their mask

chocosoldier ,

the US military uses a personal cooling vest that was invented by a furry to keep cool in his fursuit

TheControlled ,

Clowns. I never found them entertaining, but they just want to entertain kids and people at circuses.

Today ,

But they’re so damned scary!!! I think it’s the expression/lack of expression. I don’t know, but definitely terrifying!!

TheControlled ,

I just don’t see how they’re scary I guess ¯⁠\⁠(⁠◉⁠‿⁠◉⁠)⁠/⁠¯

spittingimage ,
@spittingimage@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah. And only a minority of them are sex killers.

TheControlled ,

I mean 1 out of infinity is a minority, right?

ReCursing ,
@ReCursing@kbin.social avatar

Nickelback. I mean they're not good but they're not really bad either, just a complete nonevent. They don't deserve the hate they get, they don't really deserve anything

kurcatovium ,

Oh, boy, the most certainly deserve the hate. This article sums it up pretty well: grunge.com/…/nickelback-became-hated-band-music-i…

Susaga ,
@Susaga@ttrpg.network avatar

Holy fuck, that article is elitist. Half of the sections seem pointlessly mean, like they’re trying to dunk on them to win popularity points. One of them is just insulting Chad Kroeger for marrying Avril Lavigne, as if a 10+ year marriage is a bad thing. Some valid points buried in there, but the credibility is lost.

kurcatovium ,

Some valid points? Some? Well, yeah, there are some that probably could be omitted, but most stands strong.

Maybe I’m biased as I listen to more or less different genres, but there’s nothing wrong on hating on Nickelback.

Susaga , (edited )
@Susaga@ttrpg.network avatar

Why would you hate someone for making music you don’t enjoy? Why hate someone for making money with a successful product? Why not just… Ignore them? You are under no obligation to like them, but there’s only around three arguments in there to actually hate them. There are more arguments in that article that boil down to “it’s successful, so it sucks” than valid criticism.

0ops ,

It’s cool to hate

lazylion_ca ,

Being cool is so lame.

HobbitFoot ,

Liking something is just a waste of time.

0ops ,

Thanks I’m glad someone got it

kurcatovium ,

Don’t get me wrong, I do enjoy rock music (among others), but assholes like Nickelback are making terrible example of it. When someone asks me what I listen to and I reply “rock music” the person often reply along the lines of “ah, ok, like Nickelback?” And that’s just disgusting.

I don’t actively hate on them posting shit on the internet on my own or marching with antiNickelback sign in RL, but when someone asks or when discussion revolves around, I tell him I hate the band.

Being successful musician has nothing to do with it. People like Kanye or Taylor Swift made way more money with their (IMO shitty) music, but I don’t hate them as Nickelback. Because they (probably, or at least not that obviously) don’t ruin the genre they perform in.

Edit: Half of what I want to say is probably lost in translation as English is not my native language, so I can’t make all the nuances I would do in my language.

HobbitFoot ,

No, makes sense to me.

Susaga ,
@Susaga@ttrpg.network avatar

First, this was never about your opinion. It was about an article that complained about music being used in advertising, songs being popular, and people being inspired by a band. That was the opinion you cited as a good reason to hate them.

Second, how often does that actually happen? Considering it’s an internet meme to shit on them, how often do people cite Nickelback as their main example of rock ahead of, say, Nirvana?

Third, why is it disgusting that people mention a band you dislike? Can you not simply correct them and suggest the bands you ACTUALLY like? Does it have to be “hate” rather than “I’m not a fan”?

Fourth, how the hell did Nickelback ruin rock? Is rock so fragile that the Eagles can’t be enjoyed because of “How you remind me” existing? There are bands far worse than Nickelback, but they aren’t successful so you don’t care. If Nickelback weren’t as successful, you wouldn’t care about them either.

HobbitFoot ,

It is less “it’s successful, so it sucks” and more “I keep having to listen to something I don’t like, so now I hate it”.

Susaga ,
@Susaga@ttrpg.network avatar

…But you don’t have to listen to it. If it’s on the radio, change the station. The complaints in the article were WAY too in depth for a casual listener to make.

HobbitFoot ,

That assumes you have control of the radio station or whatever songs are being played. It isn’t like that for a lot of people.

Susaga ,
@Susaga@ttrpg.network avatar

Scenario 1: It’s your radio. Turn to a different station.
Scenario 2: It’s a friend’s radio. Ask them to turn to a different station.
Scenario 3: It’s a public radio. Just zone out for three minutes.

And on the subject of not getting to choose the songs, what station is choosing to play 20 year old songs by a band it’s a meme to hate?

HaywardT ,

Another thing that is hated for no reason. Age-gap relationships.

0ops ,

Yeah, most of the hate is because they were super overplayed for a solid decade. For years the popular radio stations in my area didn’t seem to play anything but Nickelback, green day, Lady Gaga, and pink. In a vacuum, they’re fine. “How you remind me” is pretty good imo. I don’t care for anything else from them. I’ve heard that their guitar player is actually really talented, but I haven’t listened to them enough to know myself

Susaga ,
@Susaga@ttrpg.network avatar

Ah, the common paradox. Nobody wants to listen to Nickelback because it’s overplayed, and nobody drives in New York because of all the traffic.

TruthAintEasy ,
@TruthAintEasy@kbin.social avatar

I dont want to listen to them because there is nearly infinite better music than the overproduced boring stuff. Some tunes are catchy, even seen them live once because my mom wanted company, but they are mid at best imo

AFC1886VCC ,

“All the right reasons” is a solid album by them. Nothing groundbreaking or unique in terms of sound but it’s an enjoyable listen.

VindictiveJudge ,
@VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world avatar

Also a phrase that sums up their entire career. And that’s fine. They’re like the musical equivalent of comfort food.

alphacyberranger ,
@alphacyberranger@lemmy.world avatar

I second this. I love Nickelback. They are unique in their own way .

ReCursing ,
@ReCursing@kbin.social avatar

No, they're not. That was kind of my point

prole ,

I think they’re a relic from a time when it was ok/cool to hate on a band or artist for no reason, publicly, without everyone judging you for being a prick.

My theory is that they’re one of, if not the, last bands to fall into the above category, so everyone just uses them as their go-to.

Younger people (in this case meaning people under 35 lol) are just so much more accepting and less judgemental than previous generations. And you love to see it.

Socsa ,

The thing is, Nickelback didn’t invent post-grunge or radio grunge, but they were definitely face of it. That era saw a nearly endless stream of cookie cutter Pearl Jam wannabes pop up, and at the same time the entire independent radio industry, which had played a big role in birthing so many counterculture movements, was under threat of corporate consolidation when they were getting popular in the late 90s.

To many millennials, nothing else embodied this dark era for rock music like Nickelback. It was “we have Eddie Vedder at home” meme - shoved down our throats, carbon copied every few months, constantly reminding us that the alternative rock station we grew up with was purchased by Clearchannel and would be transitioned to Latin Beats by the end of the year.

So in that sense, Nickelback may not have killed grunge, but it happily set up shop on its grave, to forever pantomime and disrespect the alternative rock giants laying below. And for a lot of people, that was just too painful.

GolfNovemberUniform ,
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

Conservatism.

Aurenkin ,

There are actually two conditions in the question, friendo

GolfNovemberUniform , (edited )
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

Well yea but when it comes to politics, nothing has only advantages. I just hate how this exact policy receives so much aggressive hate from liberals for not more reason than liberal policy has

frefi ,
@frefi@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

You say this as if conservatives aren’t aggressively hateful lol

People hate the hatred fueled by conservatism

GolfNovemberUniform ,
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

I have only seen a lot of hateful liberals. That’s why I said that. It was more of a rant. Seriously why are they so aggressive? They only make this world worse with their hatred. Though I’m sure there are aggressive conservatists too. I just haven’t seen them yet

frefi ,
@frefi@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

The hatred from conservatives that I’m referring to is through the legislation they pass that has IRL consequences and ruins people’s lives

GolfNovemberUniform ,
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

I’m not going to argue. I have a completely different opinion

BorgDrone ,

It’s not subjective, it’s fact. You’re welcome to your own opinion, not your own reality.

Bitrot ,
@Bitrot@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Never heard any anti-trans rhetoric, or just agree with it? ‘Cause I see calling for a group to be eradicated from public life as generally making the world worse.

In other words, watch CPAC and try to remember that the things they say are about real people, and they pass legislation negatively affecting those real people.

GolfNovemberUniform ,
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

I don’t even think I’m a conservative. I don’t follow any conservative speakers, leaders etc. And I respect different opinions. But hatred is always bad. I saw a ton of hateful and aggressive liberals that seemed to act aggressively towards any different opinion (not only conservative I think). That is always bad. If you like aggression, well, I’d suggest therapy

Bitrot ,
@Bitrot@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Where did you see it? I’ve seen a ton of stuff like that on social media, but social media amplifies awful takes and has a large population of people lacking perspectives. It doesn’t represent the real world all that well.

Speaking on aggression, there is a large contingent of people in this country who are actively hoping for a civil war and the opportunity to shoot their neighbors over opinions they don’t like or living lives they don’t approve of.

GolfNovemberUniform ,
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

Yes I was talking about social media. I know they don’t even remotely represent the whole population but the fact that liberals were the most aggressive remains the same. I hope in real life there are a lot of peaceful and kind people. And the USA have become aggressive in all possible ways recently so that was expected. Maybe that’s one of the reasons to liberals’ aggression too since they are mostly American afaik. Well hopefully it will all stop soon. People shouldn’t be like that no matter their political views and preferences

ULS ,

It’s pop politics. Pop politics and marketing is the enemy. Regardless of sides.

It’s like the difference between real art and pop marketed art. Street rap and pop rap etc.

puppy ,

nothing has only advantages.

So there’s some reasons to hate then? The question asks about things hated for absolutely no reason.

GolfNovemberUniform ,
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

Yea I know. That comment was a rant. I just hate aggression like that

TacoButtPlug ,
@TacoButtPlug@sh.itjust.works avatar

Yes, no. An ideology that celebrates killing minorities, women, and the queer community deserves all the hate it gets. The latest victim to your favorite ideology, Nex Benedict in the US and the entire Palestinian population vis-a-vis Netanyahu’s conservative government. Conservatism belongs exactly where it is in the public’s eye. If not moreso.

GolfNovemberUniform ,
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

Hmm I guess I meant a different kind of conservatism

LotzaSpaghetti ,
@LotzaSpaghetti@sh.itjust.works avatar

Define it then, don’t have to be coy.

GolfNovemberUniform ,
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

It was about legalization policies, not about economical stuff

ULS , (edited )

Like many things, I get the ideology and theory, but I don’t understand it in practice. Which basically goes for all politics.

Basically they all require force to realistically attain because chaos rules reality and you cant fuck with chaos and the laws of universe or else bad stuff happens. Maybe things could change later on if humanity makes it that far… But we are nowhere near that.

GolfNovemberUniform , (edited )
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

Politics is hard in practice. There are always going to be factors that’ll make ideas hard or even impossible to implement (any ideas, not only conservative)

ULS ,

It’s also changing constantly which people don’t like to admit. People want something secure but life will never be secure.

BonesOfTheMoon ,

Unfortunately they’re associated with every horrible idea on earth so I don’t know why they expect to be treated well.

GolfNovemberUniform ,
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

Well yea I shouldn’t have said it here. It’s a controversial one. Hopefully I already explained the reason of me saying it in the replies

ada ,
@ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Why are we hated on for hating on folk??? It’s so unfair!!!

GolfNovemberUniform ,
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

It is not. It is actually what the word “fair” means. You get hate (a bad thing) for doing hate (a bad thing). Completely fair in my opinion. There’s nothing wrong in critics though. Unfortunately every part of the US culture and government tries to distort it

ada ,
@ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

My response was sarcastic reply to the person above me… I am very much not conservative

alcoholicorn ,

Who is hating on you for wanting to lower taxes?

Or are they hating on you for wanting to deregulate industries?

Or was it a different conservative view?

GolfNovemberUniform , (edited )
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

The conservative part of my views is more about not legalizing things that were not legalized previously (if they do tend to cause damage to people of course). Lol I can see that downvotes by every single USA citizen on Lemmy for that one. Maybe I can explain further if needed but later. I think taxation is important and can be kept high if needed. The government probably shouldn’t regulate the industry much but the opposite situation has its advantages as well (EU government nailed that). Private life should always stay private though + mass surveillance is a huge waste of resources that is not good in any perspective. I don’t identify myself as a conservative in the traditional meaning of this world. I have my own views

whogivesashit ,

I’ve seen like 5 comments where you refuse to expand on your views. This is a formal invitation to bring your opinion to the marketplace of ideas and have it sorted out.

GolfNovemberUniform , (edited )
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

My views are not detailed yet that’s true. But what in the world is a marketplace of ideas? A thing that has a 100 pages contract and is meant to steal intellectual property (jk)? Lol that’s not gonna work on me. And “sorting out someone’s opinion” is highly immoral in my opinion (unless it’s done to prevent an immediate threat and the “brainwasher” consents his actions after the threat is eliminated). Anyone who intentionally attempts to do it to me is to be deleted

whogivesashit ,

You ever read Fahrenheit 451? It’s just a decent read imo, but it has a few gems worth mentioning. In case you’re unfamiliar, it follows the story of a man (named Guy) who lives in a future version of America where books have been outlawed.

Guy meets a former English professor and begins to read in secret. In one of their meetings, the English professor tries to get Guy to talk about what he’s thinking, but Guy is being timid in sharing his thoughts. The professor then says this

You’re afraid of making mistakes. Don’t be. Mistakes can be profited by. Man, when I was young I shoved my ignorance in people’s faces. They beat me with sticks. By the time I was forty my blunt instrument had been honed to a fine cutting point for me. If you hide your ignorance, no one will hit you and you’ll never learn.

To hide your ideas this way is to live in a bubble, and you cannot grow your mind this way.

GolfNovemberUniform ,
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

Mister, I literally lost the closest person recently. Developing my political views is not my priority now. And maybe that’s the reason why I became so active in political discussions. Also I ruined my personality already. I don’t have one now (though relatively stable political views still remain smh). I can only work in enforcement agencies at this point. That’s a thing I’m probably not terrible at. Anyways I did read that book. It was like 5 years ago though so I don’t remember much. And btw the lowest temperature of burning for paper is Celsius 451, not Fahrenheit

whogivesashit ,

Enforcement agencies, vague talk about legalization, makes more sense, now we’re getting somewhere. Hope you’re able to find your way to a better career path. Lots of people partake in activities that others don’t approve of. I don’t think that means we should enforce our will on others. I personally think Christianity is a cult that primarily recruits through the indoctrination of children, but I’m also a fan of religious freedom. Condolences on your loss.

GolfNovemberUniform ,
@GolfNovemberUniform@lemmy.ml avatar

Lol I can’t even work because disability. Ik it’s kind of an extremist thing but I do think that enforcing is required when something gets really bad and creates a severe negative influence on the society. And if I can’t really be helpful in anything else, why don’t I choose that way? It’s not like everyone is good at it. Not caring about the well-being of your own children makes you a suspect already so careful with that one. Yes religious freedom is really important. And thank you

Cowbee ,

Nah, that’s justified

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