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'There Are No Kings in America': Biden Blasts Supreme Court, Issues Dire Warning After Immunity Ruling

“(With) today’s Supreme Court decision on presidential immunity, that fundamentally changed. For all practical purposes, there are virtually no limits on what the president can do. It’s a fundamentally new principle and it’s a dangerous precedent because the power of the office will no longer be constrained by the law even including the supreme court of the United States.”

Throughout his address, Biden underscored the gravity of the moment, emphasizing that the only barrier to the president’s authority now lies in the personal restraint of the officeholder. He warned vehemently against the prospect of Trump returning to power, painting a stark picture of the dangers such an outcome could pose.

NatakuNox ,
@NatakuNox@lemmy.world avatar

Then fucking do something about it Joe! The DNC has been little more than passive observers to the raise of fascism.

teodor_from_achewood ,

“The DNC” doesn’t do what you think it does.

givesomefucks ,

It doesn’t do what it should.

The point of the party is supposed to be long-term strategy and putting the platform over any one person.

When people talk about what the DNC should be doing, it’s not some “gotchya” to point out that they’re not doing their job and leadership needs replaced.

It’s just proving their point

teodor_from_achewood ,

So because the National Committee’s short and long term strategy is not what you’d be doing, you think they’re not doing anything.

Do you do any local political organizing?

givesomefucks ,

you think they’re not doing anything.

What’s their long term plan?

As far as I can tell, it’s only prevent progressives from taking control of the party.

teodor_from_achewood ,

For now, they’re planning on getting out voters for the general election, and recruiting volunteers along the way.

Most planning falls to state and local parties - which you can easily get involved in.

Why haven’t you?

givesomefucks ,

For now,

Bruh…

Do you know what “long term planning” means?

If you don’t think they have one, say it.

Zorque ,

So basically the only thing they care about is winning, not actually representing peoples values?

Theyre more than just an election committee, thats what the DCCC is for.

anlumo ,

Of course they are in it for the money, what do you think?

lone_faerie ,

I think they should be working for the people. The government isn’t (supposed to be) a money making scheme.

anlumo ,

Yes, but that’s not how it works in practice. Running a government is a huge money-making machine, and so it attracts the worst kind of people.

Nougat ,

Since we're talking about a SCOTUS ruling, it would be on Congress to pass legislation.

And to follow up on @teodor_from_achewood's comment, the Democratic National Committee is a private party organization that supports Democratic candidates in elections. They have nothing to do with passing legislation.

grue ,

It’s on Biden to personally demonstrate to SCOTUS just how dangerous the ruling was.

Nougat ,

By calling for drone strikes on SCOTUS, yes.

ExFed ,

I deeply disagree with this take. If we actually care about the Constitution and upholding what it stands for, then we have to work to undo the damage caused by this race to the bottom, not participate in it.

grue ,

Good luck with that. You can “disagree” all the way to the concentration camp.

flicker ,

You know what would be a fantastic way to spur forward legislation and law stopping the president from doing anything bonkers?

Having the president do something bonkers that the evil assholes who are setting the field to make Trump a king, have no choice but to stop.

Semi_Hemi_Demigod ,
@Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world avatar

I like this idea. Republicans are desperate to prosecute the “Biden crime family” but can’t go after him because of this ruling. So Biden just has to do a bunch of illegal but non-violent stuff - like openly soliciting bribes - and Republicans would be forced to pass a law.

For that law to be valid, it can’t be targeted at one person - called “bill of attainder” - it would apply to all presidents going forward regardless of who’s elected.

Hoist them by their own petard.

Quill7513 ,

Still. The DNC has systems in place to decide who to back in elections to pass legislation. Their messaging since 2015 has been embarrassing. They keep courting moderate conservatives that don’t exist and ignoring unrepresented potential voters who do. They talk about how they win elections when there’s good turn out without ever analyzing which candidates encourage high turnout. Americans want to feel represented in politics and we don’t. The Democrats need to do something that would weaken the democrat party but would weaken the Republican party more: they need to actively begin dismantling the two party system. We want election reform. We want the police to not be a hostile force against the general populace. We want the society we live in to benefit everyone and not just the kinds of people who can afford to finance an election campaign.

The polling exists. We all know that neither party represents or enacts what the people want do. The Democrats refuse to look around and see what’s happening, preferring to rearrange the deck chairs as the ship sinks because that’s the only thing they know to do. And you know? I can’t really blame them. We the people have also been rearranging the deck chairs. We live in a country that only benefits the top but we all still show up to do our duties without looking at what’s going on in other countries where the people are standing up to their authoritarian oppressors.

The worst part is the fascists know what they’re doing. They know to decay the structure by raising the temperature because we’ve become too complacent. We need to stand up to fascism in a way that we haven’t ever since McArthyism.

teodor_from_achewood ,

The DNC has systems in place to decide who to back in elections to pass legislation.

No it does not.

Quill7513 ,

Then what the fuck is a primary and how do they decide to back in a primary and what the fuck is a super delegate?

teodor_from_achewood ,

Bernie lost because he didn’t get enough votes.

Quill7513 ,

Sure. And I voted for warren. My point isn’t “The DNC needs to get their heads out of their asses and make Bernie their nominee” my point is “The DNC needs to get their heads our of their asses and realize their current overall strategy is a losing one”

NatakuNox ,
@NatakuNox@lemmy.world avatar

Ya but was there a thumb on the scale to push people one way?

teodor_from_achewood ,

No

MutilationWave ,

What would you call almost everyone dropping out and backing Biden right before super Tuesday but a thumb on the scale? Less severe but directly traceable to the DNC, what would you call giving debate questions in advance to one candidate but not the other but a thumb on the scale?

This is just what I know of.

teodor_from_achewood ,

Conspiracy theory nonsense.

UltraGiGaGigantic ,

What primary?

the_post_of_tom_joad ,

Ugh. Stop. Talking. You Fucking. Knob.

Jesus Christ, someone might believe you so talk less. Please.

Please.

EDIT: PLEASE

teodor_from_achewood ,

Nah.

You all will whine and whine and whine but will never do the most basic political organizing.

SwingingTheLamp ,

No, Congress cannot pass legislation on this matter. The ruling says that the Constitution itself grants the President immunity, so it would take a Constitutional amendment to change it.

Nougat ,

No, Congress cannot pass legislation on this matter.

Sure they can. They can pass legislation that says "The President of the United States of America does not have criminal immunity from official acts taken as President."

Once that's done, a case would have to be identified and charged. The President would need to do something that would be considered a crime, and would be considered an official act, then be charged with that crime. Then it would follow its way through the legal process - district court, appeals court, en banc, eventually landing at the Supreme Court, who would decide whether that legislation was constitutional.

There are plenty of unconstitutional laws still on the books, especially at the state level, "atheists cannot hold public office" is a great example. Of course, those laws are "unenforceable" under normal circumstances; these are not normal circumstances. We've seen how the fascists abuse the legal system. It would not surprise me one bit for them to latch on to one of those "still on the books" unconstitutional laws and attempt to enforce it, because throwing wrenches into the machinery is the point.

Using the "atheists cannot hold public office" example, it would be elementary to cause harm to someone's campaign for elected office just by seeking to enforce an unconstitutional law. Drawing attention to the lack of religious belief in a candidate, forcing said candidate to defend themselves, getting the unwashed masses to go "Yeah! That's what the law says!" because they're too fucking stupid to understand that other court rulings have nullified that law.

SwingingTheLamp ,

Yes, technically they could, but any suit under that law would be vulnerable to getting thrown out on summary judgement. Would you agree that it’s more accurate to say that Congress can’t fix the system by reverting to the old law?

Nougat ,

Would you agree that it's more accurate to say that Congress can't fix the system by reverting to the old law?

I'm not sure what you mean by this, can you explain?

SwingingTheLamp ,

They can’t take us back to the way things were on June 30th, 2024, to make this ruling like it didn’t happen. It doesn’t have the power. The best the that Congress can do is pass an unconstitutional law that may, at some future date, through a highly-fraught process in the courts, reverse it.

Nougat ,

That's the "right" way, yes. I believe constitutional amendments also begin in Congress.

Natanael ,

Constitutional amendment

Natanael ,

This is an interpretation of the constitution, so what congress needs to do it to amend the constitution to explicitly state the president is not immune, and good luck getting that through

teodor_from_achewood ,

They can amend it or they can pass law citing a different part of the constitution or other judicial precedent, then if it gets challenged the Supreme Court would have to rule on the constitutionality of it’s latest legal justification.

Hopefully after we replace six justices.

Clinicallydepressedpoochie ,

They have nothing to do with passing legislation.

Get the fuck out of here.

crusa187 ,

Some might call them enablers at this point.

riodoro1 ,

He’s so pissed about it he’s gonna do absolutely nothing!

TrickDacy , (edited )

You apparently want him to do illegal things because he can now get away with it?

edit: are basic norms being downvoted here because if republicans are corrupt af, we should not have any standards either?

Edit 2: you’re not teaching me anything by telling me the Republicans did something more fucked up first. Do you people honestly think Biden would/could murder political opponents. He obviously won’t. He shouldn’t. Jfc

Edit 3: yup I’m totally saying let’s do nothing about this. You people are brilliant.

catloaf ,

Apparently “when the president does it, that means that it is not illegal” is now law.

Beetschnapps , (edited )

So again it’s now a matter of “what is allowed” vs “what is ethical or moral”…

We all joke about the high road of democratic vs gop approaches. But how much does the difference matter?

The hard part is we all get it, Biden is now technically allowed to do whatever. Is that a reason to immediately do the worst possible thing?

Should he now cast aside the law and commit hate crimes purely to prove a point?

The courts will never allow such a performative action, but they’ll allow the creep of fascism.

CaptainSpaceman ,

There are way worse thing biden could do withthis nearly unlimited power

Beetschnapps ,

And we’re still holding on to imagination.

TrickDacy ,

These people are proving that anarchy would never work. The second murder became “legal” they all jumped to suggest it.

TopRamenBinLaden ,

Murder happens all of the time in Capitalist society, too, you know? Even though it’s ‘illegal’ and all that.

Anarchy does not mean no rules, it just means there is no state to enforce those rules. Communities can still enforce their own rules in Anarchist society, and one of those rules can be ‘don’t murder’.

TrickDacy ,

I know what anarchy is. You’re assuming murder would be forbidden in every community, but if a lot of people in this thread started communities, (at least they themselves) would be allowed to murder. That was my point.

Gigagoblin ,
@Gigagoblin@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

oh, look, it’s one of these again.

Sanctus ,
@Sanctus@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah he should. Shock everyone. Show them how bad this ruling is. I’m sure there are impermanent ways to display this.

Johnmannesca ,
@Johnmannesca@lemmy.world avatar

Does this mean a president can make their tax filing an official act?

sik0fewl ,

Turns out Nixon was right this whole time.

cabron_offsets ,

“Illegal” my left asshole.

kevindqc ,

How many assholes do you have?

ArmoredThirteen ,

Thirteen of them and they’re all well guarded. How many do you have??

Hadriscus ,

Only 12

Duamerthrax ,

Sure. Why not? It’s not like the next R in office wont do exactly that anyway.

TrickDacy ,

Because morality and norms exist whether those corrupt fucks care about them or not.

DeadTestament ,

The problem is that action must be taken now or those norms could go away forever.

Reverendender ,

Not for long they don’t

echutaa ,

Yes tie your hands while your opponent cleans their gun

lone_faerie ,

You can’t use norms and morality to defeat fascists

TrickDacy ,

Murder it is then

ALoafOfBread ,

Not illegal anymore bucko

Tja ,

They are literally not illegal anymore. He can declare Trump to be a danger and send seal team six to execute him. He can forgive half of all student debt and transfer the other half to an unlucky dude in Oklahoma. He can forbid to be called Joseph to everybody else. He can cancel the elections. Very legal and very cool.

SuddenDownpour ,

The Judiciary has decided that the Executive must not be beholden to neither the Legislative nor the Judiciary. This is terrible, because it breaks the separation of powers. Now, if only the Executive wasn’t beholden to any of the other powers to force the Judiciary to go back to reason… Oh, wait.

Irony aside: no, this isn’t a matter of not having standards, this is a matter of making sure that democracy is capable of perpetuating itself. If the organism gets infected by a virus that intends to mutate the whole thing into a degenerated parody of itself, it must send its antibodies. Not doing so means letting the last line of defense fall all by itself, which is even against the very spirit of the law.

Squirrel ,
@Squirrel@thelemmy.club avatar

He needs to act to safeguard our democracy, because others will not have the same hangups in doing the opposite. Acting with the power they have granted him in order to prevent future issues is not corruption.

CheeseNoodle ,

When the other guy is willing to knife you its no time to stick to the rules of debate.

Milk_Sheikh , (edited )

No, I want him to call their bluff and rise to the challenge of meeting this constitutional crisis. The top court in the land has gone off the rails, and seemingly in collusion with a concerted effort to destroy the rule of law.

Blithely waiting until the election to “let the people defeat Trump” is dereliction. This ruling may be curated in deference for Trump, but unless it is challenged forcefully it will not just go away on January 7th 2024 if Trump loses again. Because when the question of “What are ‘official acts’ v ‘private acts’ then?” comes up, it’ll go right back to the SCotUS the Heritage Foundation and their interpretations.

TrickDacy ,

It’s a straw man to imply I said we should do “nothing”

skulblaka ,
@skulblaka@sh.itjust.works avatar

Fucking lol,

This entire thread is people giving you answers that range from reasonable to nuanced, and you sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming about how the only options are murder or nothing.

I don’t get to pull this quote out very often, so please, feel honored.

What you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

TrickDacy ,

The only thing I’ve refused to accept is murder. Lying about that doesn’t change it. Btw practically no one suggested anything, but everyone who did and said something besides murder seemed somewhat reasonable to me.

pyre ,

we should have standards. my standard for a fascist is that he should not exist.

neidu2 ,

BoTh SiDeS aRe EqUaLly BaD

Jiggle_Physics ,

would you care to elaborate on what you believe should be done about this?

TrickDacy ,

Given that I’m a programmer who hasn’t even had time to think about it I wouldn’t know.

Things that should not be done about it: murder. I can’t tell if the people suggesting that are all joking or not, but it’s sort of shocking if anyone is being serious.

andrewta ,

I’ve given up on this crowd. You didn’t say do nothing.

This crowd only understands their echo chamber. Unless you are 100% in agreement with them then you must 100% be against them.

In another post I challenged them to give one specific thing Biden can/should do to fix this. They couldn’t even come up with one item.

TrickDacy ,

Unless you are 100% in agreement with them then you must 100% be against them.

I know what you mean. It’s pretty freaking sad. This isn’t facebook, where there’s an 80% chance I have horrid views if you think I might have them. Yet they behave like it’s facebook.

Lightor ,

Or maybe your views are just wildly unpopular, that’s a possibility too.

TrickDacy ,

deleted_by_moderator

    •
    Lightor ,

    Yah, I mean you’d hate to have any introspection, easier to insult everyone else.

    TrickDacy ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    Lightor ,

    And you calling them idiots doesn’t make it so either. It’s just easier to call everyone dumb than genuinely consider their opinion.

    Everyone hating your opinion doesn’t make them automatically right, but it also doesn’t make them automatically wrong. Either way, only an idiot has everyone tell them they’re wrong and never considers that they just might be.

    TrickDacy ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    Lightor ,

    Nope, that’s not at all what I said. See that’s your issue, you want to get mad and hyper defensive about everything instead of just having some introspection when people are telling you you’re wrong. I basically said “if everyone is telling you you’re wrong, that’s a good indicator that you should at least reevaluate your position” and you had to take that and get defensive. If this is how you handle someone else’s views then ya, I get why you’re down voted.

    You’re building a straw man and then trying to use that straw man to back your point. I clearly stated that other people’s opinion does not make you right or wrong. This is a great example of your problem. You’re not even trying to understand the point I’m making, you’re just getting upset because someone suggested the idea that you might, just maybe, be wrong. So you make super hyperbolic statements and misrepresent what I said.

    TrickDacy ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    Lightor ,

    Man, you really do just toss insults instead of taking a few seconds to think. I’ve gone from trying to express my thoughts on your situation to being on board with everyone else. You’re an insufferable child that is unable or unwilling to understand basic concepts. Being called a weirdo by someone with your cognitive rot is a compliment.

    TrickDacy ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    Lightor ,

    “Your bizarre lecturing couldn’t be less important to anyone, least of all, me.”

    Yah that’s kinda my point. You don’t care what anyone else thinks lol. And it’s only bizarre to you because the idea of a little self reflection is a foreign concept to you.

    Also, how do I have no idea what I’m talking about. I said consider having some introspection if everyone is telling you you’re wrong. If you think that’s “having no clue” well then that’s clearly part of your problem.

    “Maybe you should take your own advice and take a long walk somewhere contemplating some stranger’s comment on the internet about your deep need for introspection.”

    More misrepresention of what I said. Also you never once mentioned that I need introspection. See you’re just being defensive and lashing out in ways that don’t make sense because you can’t process your feelings.

    I’ll tell you this, if I made multiple comments on subjects that were constantly shit all over, like you claim is happening with you, I very much would take a beat to do just that: take a walk and have a little introspection. Because unlike you I’d rather be right than proud.

    TrickDacy ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    Lightor ,

    Lol, now people who disagree with you are automatically bloodthirsty, Jesus the victim complex is strong with this one. And let’s be honest, I’ve disqualified my opinion in your eyes the second I disagreed with you. You’re not interested in convos outside your echo chamber bud.

    “I didn’t read the rest. Can you stop?”

    I love this sentence for so many reasons.

    • It shows your unwillingness to consider other people’s opions
    • It’s putting your narcissism on full display. Even though you want the convo to be over and aren’t even reading what the other pain says you just can’t stop yourself from responding.
    • You not only didn’t read it, but felt the need to tell me you didn’t read it, the confidence in ignorance is kinda impressive.

    Why oh why might people down vote and disagree with you. Such a mystery.

    TrickDacy ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    Lightor ,

    My ignorance keeps expanding. Ignorance is a lack of knowledge, am I somehow forgetting things in real time or are you ignorant to what the term ignorance means? How tf would ignorance expand lol.

    I’m literally just telling you what I see, and you don’t like it. This really gives me a lot of insight as to why you don’t want a shred of self-reflection, you wouldn’t like what you see.

    “I’d appreciate it if you’d stop flooding my inbox. Because, unlike your ignorant take, I actually do want other perspectives. Even when they are from people who want to be my enemy. Otherwise I’d just block you.”

    Omg, what a pathetic victim complex again. You’re a big boy, if you don’t want my responses in your inbox just bock me or stop responding yourself.

    Wait, wait, wait. You want me to stop talking to you, but you also want other perspectives, even from me. But why do you want me to stop if you want my perspective? And if you did actually want me to stop, you could just block me, but you don’t want to do that. So you want me to stop but are taking no actions that would make me stop but also you don’t want me to stop because you want my perspective. You’re getting tangled in your own mental gymnastics bud.

    TrickDacy ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    Lightor ,

    Oh no, you think a 1-minute read is a novel… I timed myself bud, less than a minute… Guess you don’t read a lot of books, or anything, which actually explains a lot.

    Every word you read is wrong? Every word? I said, “Ignorance is a lack of knowledge,” which is the dictionary definition. But I’m sure you know better than the dictionary too lol.

    “but trust me I am not reading most of this shit” Wow, this you: “Because, unlike your ignorant take, I actually do want other perspectives. Even when they are from people who want to be my enemy.” Looks like someone is losing track of their BS.

    TrickDacy ,

    Just want to let you know that I didn’t read any of this. You failed at wasting as much of my time as you wanted to

    Lightor ,

    And you’re wasting yours, but only one of us is outting themselves haha.

    I always found it kinda pathetic when people have to say “I didn’t read that” like it’s a slam, when it’s actually embarrassing. You’re addimitting you’d rather yell nonsense and plug your ears than walk away or have a convo. It’s really sad.

    TrickDacy ,

    You’ve probably spent 30 minutes this morning tearing into me. I spent like 5 minutes rolling my eyes and telling you it’s useless.

    But you win.

    Lightor ,

    Lol, nope, I’ve spent about 30 min expressing why your stance is wrong; a nice little story anyone who interacts with you can read and see how you REALLY feel about differing opinions.

    You’ve done nothing but reinforce everything I’ve said by plugging your ears and refusing to have an actual conversation. Maybe it only took you 5 minutes, but you painted a very clear picture of yourself. I mean ya, if you only talk at people and never listen, you don’t really have to invest a lot in a conversation.

    Lost_My_Mind ,

    I got one. Present a new bill that says supreme court judges are not for life with no chance to remove them.

    Every 4 years on election years, but months before the presidential election, (so maybe spring/summer) they allow the general public to vote on their performance. If they get less than 65% approval rating, they’re out. They’ll be replaced by the new president, technically next year (since the election happens in November, but the inauguration is in January).

    So if a court judge is less than 65% popular with the public, they’re gone.

    And yes, I see the problem of “but the nation is so divided right now that neither side could get that approval rating, and all 12 judges would just be replaced every 4 years…”

    Which is partially by design. We need a system that fundamentally breaks all systems that keep corrupt people in power, and actively discourages the media, and politicians from taking this “us vs them” mentality.

    A republican SHOULD be presenting their set of ideas that benefit ALL Americans.

    A democrat SHOULD be presenting a different set of opposing ideas that benefit ALL Americans.

    And the public should vote on what will benefit them most. There should be no such thing as career democrats, or career republicans. It should be a free flowing liquid set of ideas that get catagorized as democrat this time, but based on the people in the election, maybe next time you’re catagorized as more republican than the other guy. So, this election you’re republican instead.

    Because everybody is so concerned about “The other side”, that everybody forgets one key thing. It may be two sides, but they’re two sides to the same coin. That coin is America. Right now, and for the past 8 years, that coin has been just falling to the ground.

    andrewta ,

    thank you for presenting at least a decent idea. the ideas of shoot trump is just stupid. yeah biden can’t be prosecuted for it but the person who shoots trump can be. it’s still against the law and would basically guarantee a civil war in this country.

    while the bill is a good idea. would it actually pass? i mean think about it. right now the republicans own the court and will own it until the current batch dies. why would they vote for the bill? but on the face of it . it’s a good idea.

    AmbiguousProps , (edited )

    In another post I challenged them to give one specific thing Biden can/should do to fix this. They couldn’t even come up with one item.

    Nice to run into you again, still posting this tired line huh? And you’re lying, because not only did I provide specifics, so did multiple other people (there’s more than just these, I’ve seen a ton). It seems that you might be caught in some sort of personal echo chamber.

    Is there a reason you stop responding to people once they provide specifics?

    andrewta ,

    I kept checking and no one would give specifics. I gave up on the conversation. But I’ll go look

    ZILtoid1991 ,

    The precedent shouldn’t be “they go low, we go high”, but “play stupid games, win stupid prizes”. He probably wouldn’t do anything because the aforementioned issue, but should just send an assassination squad on the 6 supreme court judges alongside with other politicians.

    Lost_My_Mind ,

    You’re suggesting Biden sends a government hit squad to assasinate supreme court judges?

    Are you high?

    Womble ,

    I mean, apparently he could now order a hit team to burst into Robert’s house at night, put a gun to his his head and say “Joe sends his completely legal regards” before leaving. Obviously killing them would be wrong but maybe it wouldnt be so bad to make them feel a bit of what they are unleashing, since conservatives often dont have empathy for things that dont happen to them or those close to them.

    Lost_My_Mind ,

    So…the hypothetical of trump using these new “standards” (for lack of a better word) that his judges set is justification for calling for the current president to beat him to the punch?

    Do you know what would happen if Biden did that? Best case scenario, is he IMMEDIATELY loses the 2024 election, and trump then continues the practice with the justification of “he did it first!”. That’s the BEST possible outcome.

    But it could go SOOOOOO much farther than that. It could honestly be the thing that starts the civil war 2 in this country before we even GET to the election. A government using it’s own resources to kill it’s own government officials. How is that not EXACTLY what russia does???

    Why stop at supreme court judges? Why not kill trump? Why not kill every political opponent you face?

    You tried to stop trump from introducing facism by saying it’s ok for Biden to introduce facism. Either way, this country falls to facism. You’re just debating which side is the new dictator.

    Womble , (edited )

    Did you missread what i said or just choose to argue against what you wanted to read? I even included the words “obviously killing them would be wrong”, and its not like that was burried in dozens of lines nobody will read through.

    I suggested showing the judge he could be targeted with his own ruling not killing him.

    TrickDacy ,

    You’re actually being serious

    draughtcyclist ,

    It’s the tolerance paradox. We can tolerate all except the intolerant.

    UltraGiGaGigantic ,

    Can you tolerate electoral reform?

    ShepherdPie ,

    But they’re not illegal things according to the highest court in the nation. That’s the entire point.

    TrickDacy ,

    That doesn’t matter. I understand that premise and yet it still doesn’t matter

    ShepherdPie ,

    If it was as unimportant as you think it is, it wouldn’t be getting ruled on by SCOTUS. It absolutely does matter, especially with groups like the right who continually challenge laws to find ways to loosen or completely negate them.

    TrickDacy ,

    Never said it was unimportant

    ShepherdPie ,

    Right you said it “doesn’t matter” which is another way of saying that something is unimportant.

    Duamerthrax , (edited )

    The only thing you’re interested in is showing how much of a bigger person you are on the internet. What we’re doing is speaking about all the ways this is fucked up and hypotheticals about how it can go wrong. For a lot of us, this isn’t new. I my political life time alone, I saw 8 years of rights being eroded by the Bush II administration with no real push back and once Obama got in under the promise of fixing things, a whole lot of inaction on rolling back any of the rights violations.

    The powers that be are taking advantage of how distributed the responsibilities of government are. If it’s so easy to lose rights, why is it so hard to gain them back. There’s always someone else to point at for why that is the case. In Nazi Germany, that was called The Banality of Evil. I see that everyday when some injustice is hand waved away as being too ingrained to do anything about. Police Reform? Too hard. Effective Climate Action? It would hurt the economy. The SC is eroding our rights? Have to wait for someone to die or retired(lol).

    PlainSimpleGarak ,

    You’re wasting your time, Best Friend.

    TrickDacy ,

    I will consider this harassment and report you if you do this again

    PlainSimpleGarak ,
    1. Lemmy is a rather small community by comparrison. I’m bound to run into you frequently.
    2. I don’t care what you do. It has no impact on me.
    3. If it truly bothered you, you would block me. It’s ridiculously easy.
    todd_bonzalez ,

    yup I’m totally saying let’s do nothing about this. You people are brilliant.

    What should we do then? The default assumption is nothing, give us something to actually work with or the assumption is true.

    TrickDacy ,

    Not murder. I’m not knowledgeable enough to know. I know, no one ever admits this online so it’s probably weird to read

    The default assumption is nothing

    That is on you

    todd_bonzalez ,

    Republicans have spent the past 50 years screaming that guns exist to thwart a tyrannical government. Not that they bring tyranny to our doorstep, I’m not writing off the one thing they’ve admitted could stop them.

    The current brand of right wing fascism taking over in this country will kill millions if left unchecked. I’m not encumbered by the trolley problem here, the people who want to bring fascism to America should die if that’s what it takes to stop them.

    TrickDacy ,

    Calling for civil war is always good

    todd_bonzalez ,

    I don’t intend to start it, I intend to finish it.

    Sanctus ,
    @Sanctus@lemmy.world avatar

    Protest. We should flood the streets and not go to work.

    lone_faerie ,

    We know for a fact Trump will use this to abuse his power as much as possible. The high road isn’t sitting down and taking it, it’s using the power that was just handed to you to do something about it. There practically is no such thing as “illegal” now when it comes to the president. Biden doesn’t need to commit murder to make a difference. He could, for example, expand the Supreme Court so the conservatives no longer have the advantage, or cancel student debt to get more supporters, or do anything other than cry about it.

    TrickDacy ,

    Nah, murder is the popular idea here so let’s do that

    lolrightythen ,

    Look in the mirror, dawg

    Corkyskog ,

    I would love to see him detain every scotus justice and stash em in a safe house for their protection/national security. Give them no freedom of movement or agency over their lives… see if they change their tune.

    Mango ,

    This sounds like it would be way more effective than the obvious bullshit that came to my mind. I’m with you.

    neidu2 ,

    So, Biden can order seal team 6 to permanently fix the Supreme Court by removing 6 and leaving 3 alive. Gotcha.

    After all, those 6 argued that he has the right to do so.

    FattestMattest ,

    I declare an official act of presidency!

    neidu2 ,

    Insert Michael Scott drawing a gun.

    xenomor ,

    Just tell Joe that there are six Palestinian children on the court and he’ll get right on it.

    Cadeillac ,
    @Cadeillac@lemmy.world avatar

    How original

    Bye ,

    Only if he claims it’s an official act though! Don’t forget that part! Write “official act as president” on everything!

    ChicoSuave ,

    If he issues it as an executive order, it works.

    NotMyOldRedditName ,

    It doesn’t have to be an executive order, he’s in charge of the military. Any command he gives them is an official act, and can’t be questioned now.

    And then he can pardon them as they don’t have the same immunity as he now has. Pardons are also official acts.

    Natanael ,

    Only for federal crimes, but that covers most things involving the military anyway

    NotMyOldRedditName ,

    Ah, good point.

    NotMyOldRedditName ,

    Also, I’m not sure being pardoned has an impact on if they can be discharged for following an order that a tribunal disagrees with. They might not end up in jail, but it could be the end of their military career

    brygphilomena ,

    In red ink at a 45° angle. He’s basically a sovcit now.

    bluGill ,

    It is up to congress to stop that not the courts. He should be impeached if he tries that.

    neidu2 ,

    He should. But he should still do it, and ST6 moves faster than congress.

    TrickDacy ,

    Uh what… How do you figure?

    Natanael ,

    Congress can expand the court to put the corrupt asses in minority and them the ruling can be reversed

    raynethackery ,

    With a Senate split down the middle? Never going to happen.

    TunaCowboy ,

    Democrats will continue to give sternly worded remarks all the way up to their appointment with the gallows, so brave!

    JDPoZ , (edited )
    @JDPoZ@lemmy.world avatar

    Democrats will continue to give sternly worded remarks all the way up to their appointment with the gallows, so brave!

    When They Go Low, We Go Die

    Chapter 3

    Marjorie smiled with great satisfaction as she looked at the crowd and began to check the rifle in her arms to make sure there was a round in the chamber.

    2 men with giant beer guts - who each wore different flavors of Punisher-style skull masks and were covered head to toe in pointlessly elaborate tactical surplus gear as if they were cosplaying their favorite Call of Duty characters - began dragging another elderly man up to the makeshift platform.

    The white-haired old man was dressed in a finely tailored dark blue suit with a little American flag lapel pin next to his tie. It looked so similar to the one that so many others in his cohort had adorned for probably the last 20 or so years, but he had been blindfolded by the men before being brought before the stage so he couldn’t see how many others still wore it or who had switched to the golden lion that… “the others…” now wore exclusively.

    The octogenarian ghost of a man feebly began to speak (not shout) loudly in protest as if trying to reason with whomever might be in charge, but the 2 pig-like men grinned and said nothing. They began tying his hands behind him against a wooden pole covered with small holes, indentations and spatters of red. As the grinning pigs both stepped away from the geriatric man secured to the pole, the mob just below him roared with wild bloodlust over his inaudible words drowning them out over and over again with : “USA! USA! USA! USA!”

    Marjorie laughed and took one hand away from the rifle to quiet the crowd so they could hear the old man’s words :

    “Point of order, Mr. Chairman! Point of order! I’m reclaiming my time! I’d like the gentle-lady to put down the firearm she just picked up, Mr. Ch-”

    …he was cut off with a loud and sudden BANG as he slumped into a dark puddle of red slowly expanding across the stage floor.

    The crowd roared and resumed its repeated chant…

    …and another blindfolded well-dressed elderly figure was walked up to the pole.

    the_post_of_tom_joad ,

    I really felt like i was there

    A_Very_Big_Fan ,

    Democrats will continue to give sternly worded remarks all the way up to their appointment with the gallows, so brave!

    When They Go Low, We Go Die

    Chapter 3

    Marjorie smiled with great satisfaction as she looked at the crowd and began to check the rifle in her arms to make sure there was a round in the chamber.

    2 men with giant beer guts - who each wore different flavors of Punisher-style skull masks and were covered head to toe in pointlessly elaborate tactical surplus gear as if they were cosplaying their favorite Call of Duty characters - began dragging another elderly man up to the makeshift platform.

    The white-haired old man was dressed in a finely tailored dark blue suit with a little American flag lapel pin next to his tie. It looked so similar to the one that so many others in his cohort had adorned for probably the last 20 or so years, but he had been blindfolded by the men before being brought before the stage so he couldn’t see how many others still wore it or who had switched to the golden lion that… “the others…” now wore exclusively.

    The octogenarian ghost of a man feebly began to speak (not shout) loudly in protest as if trying to reason with whomever might be in charge, but the 2 pig-like men grinned and said nothing. They began tying his hands behind him against a wooden pole covered with small holes, indentations and spatters of red. As the grinning pigs both stepped away from the geriatric man secured to the pole, the mob just below him roared with wild bloodlust over his inaudible words drowning them out over and over again with : “USA! USA! USA! USA!”

    Marjorie laughed and took one hand away from the rifle to quiet the crowd so they could hear the old man’s words :

    “Point of order, Mr. Chairman! Point of order! I’m reclaiming my time! I’d like the gentle-lady to put down the firearm she just picked up, Mr. Ch-”

    …he was cut off with a loud and sudden BANG as he slumped into a dark puddle of red slowly expanding across the stage floor.

    The crowd roared and resumed its repeated chant…

    …and another blindfolded well-dressed elderly figure was walked up to the pole.

    Quoting the entire comment you’re replying to is kinda redundant

    sigmaklimgrindset ,

    Ugh, it’s literally Julius Caesar vs Cato all over again.

    Biden is Cato obviously.

    Fredselfish ,
    @Fredselfish@lemmy.world avatar

    Biden fucking dumbass going blast no kings well I can promise you if Trump wins exactly how he will act. He will take Full of advantage of this ruling.

    Best thing Biden can do but he want is take advantage of it to in helping out the American people.

    Freefall ,

    Any seal team actually, also various other military personnel.

    inclementimmigrant ,

    Dumbass and spineless Biden and Democrats. The supreme court literally just started that America had a king but this dumbass party would rather take some stupid fucking high road bullshit instead of playing the game to ensure the fascist fuck around and find out.

    They don’t even have to resort to assassinations, they could really tell the IRS to audit 501© and remove their status from the churches and bullshit Republican charities, or tell the justice department to focus on domestic terrorism and corruption to fuck over Republican groups and representatives, or tell the FDA to allow the sale of raw milk.

    Play the god damn game and be the fucking king if these corrupt justice says there’s a king.

    Daxter101 ,

    That is a guaranteed path to fascism.

    I’m not gonna say that the chances are good, but if they refuse, and win, and then walk back the changes, maybe fascism can be averted.

    If they walk into using these tools and normalise them even more, then when the other party gets the government again, you get a republican fascist, and if the other party never gets the government again, it’s because you got a “democrat” fascist.

    Don’t race to the bottom, everyone loses there.

    tigeruppercut ,

    No, you use the fascist power granted by fascists to abuse the fascists who granted it in the first place. Power is the only thing that stops fascists. Start with a few nights in a black site for the justices who thought granting absolute power to the president was OK. If scotus already accepts fascism from their team it’s already too late for your plan to work.

    Valmond ,

    So fascist powers for the fascists, but not for the non-fascists.

    Get rid of all thet right now with whatever means IMO.

    fine_sandy_bottom ,

    You can’t beat fascism by becoming fascist.

    Valmond ,

    How on earth is it becoming a fascist because you remove pro fascist laws?

    That really is some mental gymnastics.

    fine_sandy_bottom ,

    Arbitrarily rewriting laws you don’t like sounds pretty fascist to me.

    Valmond ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    fine_sandy_bottom ,

    Of course it’s arbitrary.

    It doesn’t take much self awareness to realise that having a president pick and choose which SCOTUS rulings they think are ok, is exactly the type of authoritarian autocrat you’re trying to avoid.

    jordanlund ,
    @jordanlund@lemmy.world avatar

    Removed, civility.

    SaltySalamander ,

    It's truly amazing that people apparently don't understand this.

    fine_sandy_bottom ,

    I think people think of fascism as specifically “murdering minorities” or something rather than a form of autocracy.

    DragonTypeWyvern ,

    https://midwest.social/pictrs/image/94630c27-1347-4321-819c-d187f17e8519.jpeg

    TokenBoomer ,

    Exactly!👍

    Xenny ,

    You’re right, you beat fascism by rooting it out at the source and burning it and salting the ground so it can never take root again. I don’t think those are fascist ideals I think those are just normal moral ones.

    fine_sandy_bottom ,

    What does that even mean though?

    Xenny ,

    Right now all it means for the everyday citizen is shunning people socially. Letting people anguish in their own decisions. We as a society have decided it’s ok to let people rot in the street for the crime of having no support system. So we ignore and shun and show society those views are not ok. Let fascists rot. It’s the only real thing we can do right now other than take strong political stances and close off routes to fascism politically.

    fine_sandy_bottom ,

    This sounds an awful lot like doing nothing

    TokenBoomer ,

    then walk back the changes

    When have the Democrats ever shown us that they’ll do that?

    Roe? Voting Rights act? Hell, a Republican had to save ObamaCare.

    Democrats aren’t going to save us from FASCISM. The sooner everyone realizes this, the more prepared we’ll be to fight against it.

    SaltySalamander ,

    Well we have a 2 party system, and that ain't changing. So if not the Democrats, who?

    TokenBoomer , (edited )

    You can vote for Joe Biden while realizing the Democrats won’t save us, I will. We need workers to organize to build an alternative party to Democrats and Republicans. That’s why I don’t shun those that want to vote third party. We’ll never get a third party until we ask for it. The duopoly has us pigeonholed, and we have to break ourselves out, they’re not gonna do it for us.

    Excrubulent , (edited )
    @Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

    I honestly don’t know why anyone is strategising as if they’re on the same side as dems or any politician. I’m not even convinced we have a common enemy in Trump, because they don’t seem serious about beating him.

    The question you should ask when voting is “Who is my preferred enemy?” Biden won’t abuse the carte blanche immunity from criminal prosecution? Great, sounds like he’s the weaker enemy, so vote for him. Force him to keep the position he clearly doesn’t want. Force him to disappoint his base for another four years.

    While he’s doing that, get to work building alternatives that meet people’s needs from the bottom up and wean them off of this criminal system, to undermine it and prepare people to thrive as it crumbles.

    The great thing about this political theory of change is that it’s the same regardless of who’s in power. It decouples you from the capricious, disempowering shifts of electoral politics.

    Linkerbaan ,
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    Theater needs to keep going.

    Both sides are the same.

    nova_ad_vitum ,

    Sounds dumber everytime you say it.

    Linkerbaan ,
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    Can’t possibly sound dumber than people still buying this.

    TokenBoomer , (edited )

    But is he wrong? From Nixon, to Reagan, to Newt GIngrich, to Mitch McConnell to Trump, the Democrats have been feckless and refused to halt this march to fascism. They are complicit by tacit acceptance. This need to adhere to some vague Status Quo (Capitalist Donor Class) is why we are in this situation. It’s time to wake up and realize the Marxists were right all along. You can’t compromise with Capitalism.

    nova_ad_vitum ,

    Yes, he and you are obviously wrong. Even if everything you said was 100 percent true (lol) the people who failed to stop facism are obviously not the same as fascists themselves. Everything thinking person knows this , and Marx would too if he was alive.

    TokenBoomer ,

    the people who failed to stop facism are obviously not the same as fascists themselves.

    Superior Orders, or ignorance of what is happening, does not absolve one of responsibility.

    Since the 2020 election cycle began, “fascism” took on a plethora of new meanings, none of which actually accessed the ongoing material conditions surrounding the rise of fascism outside of the Republican Party. In fact, one could easily conclude that “fascists” and “republican” were interchangeable words if they paid close enough attention to the elections. But they are not. The confusion around fascism, weaponized by liberals to drive people to the voting polls, has disallowed any inspection of the primary role the Democratic Party (with its neoliberal, populist, and austerity police state policies) has played by sheltering and coddling this current iteration of fascism. source

    nova_ad_vitum ,

    Again, that is not the claim that was made. You can’t even stay on topic. I bet Marx could stay on topic .

    TokenBoomer ,

    Marx abused alcohol, so not sure. The Republicans are capitalists. The Democrats are capitalists. To Marxists they are the same. Liberalism fails because it cannot address the contradictions inherent to capitalism, inequality and wealth accumulation. Capitalism requires inequality for wealth accumulation.

    Social democratic reforms can alleviate the inequality and distribute the wealth more equitably, but, because it does not replace capitalism itself, it always falters.

    So, although Democrats and Republicans differ on social policy, they both defer to capitalism. Capitalism rules both parties.

    nova_ad_vitum ,

    The Republicans are capitalists. The Democrats are capitalists. To Marxists they are the same.

    Meaningful, important distinctions can exist even when Marxists are unable to recognize them.

    Social democratic reforms can alleviate the inequality and distribute the wealth more equitably, but, because it does not replace capitalism itself, it always falters.

    Explain? Because systems ultimately fail , it’s no good? Longevity and risilience are worthwhile considerations when designing and economic system to govern a civilization, but uktimate fallibility does not invalidate them entirely. More to the point, what evidence is there that Marxists societies do/would last longer?

    TokenBoomer ,

    Marxists recognize the distinctions. That’s why many, myself included, will vote for Joe Biden, despite him being a capitalist. Others take a more hardline stance and refuse to perpetuate the capitalist system. There are many ways to hinder capitalism.

    Social Democracies are better than laissez-fair capitalism. It’s just that capitalism, and capitalists tend to monopolize wealth and squeeze out social programs for more profit. Don’t get me wrong, I would love it if America accepted social democracy. And many would be just fine with that.

    Capitalism is a tool to shape society. Marxism is a tool to shape society. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. Capitalism is great at growing an industrial economy and Marxism is better at serving the people. Capitalism has run its course, and we need a better vision for the world and it’s 8 billion people. The instability we see across the world is because capitalism serves profit over people.

    There are many examples of Marxists societies flourishing, it depends on how you measure. China uses Marxists doctrine and is doing quite well, as is Vietnam. And though some may see them as capitalist infused, their governments adhere to Marxists principles. The capitalist drive for profit and wealth is pernicious, and it will be interesting to see how it influences the Marxists governments.

    Capitalism’s end is inevitable. We cannot have infinite growth on a finite planet. How it ends is up to us. Do we choose degrowth and sustainability, or militaristic fascist decay with war and death.

    TheGalacticVoid ,

    Can’t speak for previously, but recently, a good chunk of Democrats’ failures have been because of a select few members holding out, no?

    TokenBoomer ,

    Hasan Piker explains this quite well.

    TheFonz ,

    Noooo please. Not that imbecile grifter…

    TokenBoomer ,

    Attack the messenger if you don’t like the message. What did he say that was incorrect?

    graphikeye ,

    there’s always going to be different spoilers within the democratic party because they are created.

    This is a straight lie. It’s just feelings.

    A democrat representative from West Virginia represents a completely different electoral base than a democrat from California. So when the House is a slim d majority there are going to be spoilers. Labor reform (and others) has passed many times when Democrats had opportunities. Hassan has a political science degree and knows this. Unfortunately, he is captured by his audience and has to pander to them so he lives in conspiracy land. It’s all feelings and no substance.

    TokenBoomer , (edited )

    Like party whips don’t exist. They’re supposed to offer concessions to get bills passed. Pork Barrels are a thing. Stop defending these people, the planet is burning.

    “I’ve never been a liberal in any way,” said Manchin, adding that “all we need to do I guess for them to get theirs… is elect more liberals.”

    Polling has shown the Build Back Better plan is popular nationwide–and both political commentators and progressive activists have warned that not passing the full package could negatively impact Democrats at the ballot box next year.

    When a Majority of Americans support progressive policies such as higher minimum wage, free college, it’s not because of red states, it’s because the donor class doesn’t want those policies to pass.

    graphikeye ,

    I’m also glad we can pivot away from what a joke Hassan is.

    I think you’re reinforcing my original point: with just a slim majority a big party tent won’t accomplish much. These are just facts. I’m not defending the democrats – this is just reality.

    On another note: I’m curious about this prevalent binary invocation that happens on this site. You accused me of defending these people. I’m not interested in defending anyone --just discussing the facts. Why is everyone on Lemmy.world so intent on ascribing a team/position to everyone so earnestly? What is being gained with this tactic?

    TokenBoomer , (edited )

    I’m also glad we can pivot away from the fact that a Majority of Americans support progressive policies such as higher minimum wage, free college, even Republicans, but they can never get passed.

    I think you’re reinforcing my original point:

    The “party of the people” will pursue policies that may produce some minimal reforms for workers and the oppressed, but only as a by-product of its historic role to save the capitalist system from its own excesses in order to preserve the status quo. source.

    On another note : We are discussing the fact that Defending Democracy Through Elections Won’t Be Enough to Stop Fascism.

    Why is everyone on Lemmy.world so intent on ascribing a team/position to everyone so earnestly?

    Just a guess, but it might have something to do with immanent critique

    graphikeye ,

    Ok, I see what’s happening. Listen, I’m glad you discovered Marxist-Leninist theory and you feel the urge to re-contextualize everything through that narrative. It’s cool -I’m happy for you. I was there ten years ago. It’s good to have multiple perspectives to analyze history. What’s not good is to adhere to an exclusive narrative. I’m not here to discuss marxist-leninist theory though, I’m here to discuss the facts of the matter. It’s very simple and comfortable to sit here and reduce everything to class warfare. The real work happens in the details.

    If we analyze each bill that was blocked we can understand what were the causes. We can also analyze when progressive bills did pass and how that work happened. The real work is in the details. My initial statement stands true: with a slim majority in either house or senate, it’s going to take moving mountains to pass very progressive legislation. The reason is not class warfare or capitalists enforcing the status quo etc.

    Majority of Americans support progressive policies such as higher minimum wage, free college

    This is true. But the voting block that actually shows up to polls is actually venn diagram that overlaps partially. Also, while democrats are busy constantly purity testing each other, Republicans have been able to refine their messaging and impose their draconian policies with impunity. I’m tired of hearing about this both sidesing and upholding the status quo constantly when none of you have any clue about the work or process involved in changing policy. Go participate in local politics and become involved so you can get first-hand knowledge and become more effective. Or sit here and keep telling me about the capitalist class. Maybe that’s easier --dunno.

    immanent critique

    Nah. Immanent critique has nothing to do with why people on Lemmy are so eager to ascribe labels to others. I think it has to do more with the fact that many users on this site are probably younger and can’t handle nuance. If they are confronted with an internal critique, then their first reaction is to categorize interlocutors as diametrically opposite. If you point out a flaw in Hamas’s warfare you are automatically a Zionist. If you bring up critiques of Marxist-Leninist theory, you are automatically upholding the status quo of capitalism. It’s a way to have chilling effect on discourse so as not to be confronted with an internal critique because when you are young, and your entire worldview depends on one exclusive framework you can’t risk shattering it. My desire for you as you grow is to learn to accept internal critiques (of whatever world framework you choose to adhere to) without resorting to otherising and also not be afraid to look at the facts of the matter. History is both in the micro and the macro. Don’t stick to just the macro.

    TokenBoomer , (edited )

    Sorry it took me so long to respond, I got lost in the details…

    As Rudolph Rucker writes in “Anarcho-syndicalism: Theory and Practice:”

    Participation in the politics of the bourgeois states has not brought the labour movement a hairs’ breadth closer to Socialism, but, thanks to this method, Socialism has almost been completely crushed and condemned to insignificance.

    But, again, Hasan explains it more generally, They keep saying , “Just Vote…”.

    TheFonz ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    Linkerbaan ,
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    Ah yes not understanding the small cultural differences of minority policies being used to pretend the difference between the sides while on the broader spectrum being the exact same. Not to forget when it comes to foreign affairs all brown people rights go out of the window.

    If both sides weren’t the same the Dems would make an effort to save the things you mentioned above. They’re not doing that.

    TheFonz ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    Linkerbaan ,
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    Tell me more about how israel is good.

    TheFonz ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    Linkerbaan ,
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    Competition breeds talent. We need some good new Hasbara bots over here israel isn’t even trying anymore.

    TheFonz ,

    Weak sauce. I’ve denounced Israel multiple times. I’m dissapointed.

    SaltySalamander ,

    Transparent.

    Kiernian ,

    they could really tell the IRS to audit 501© and remove their status from the churches and bullshit Republican charities

    That would be juuuuuust about the dumbest thing they could possibly do. It would mobilize gigantic swaths of voters who are heavily invested in rhetoric over fact-checking.

    Doing away with Roe mobilized many of those voters who could be considered to be fence sitters towards the left. Removing church tax exemptions would move them right back and it would do NOTHING to solve the problem, because while the actual big offenders are happily USING the hell out of that tax exemption, they’re rich enough that they’ll get along fine without it.

    It WOULD hurt a whole lot of TINY churches that employ 1-50 people per church and actually do community work, though. All of those would go away. That’s a LOT of rural food shelves.

    I’m largely against the religious tax exemption, but that’s a problem we should worry about AFTER we can replace the nationwide infrastructure we’d be dismantling by doing so with something at least as effective as what’s there now.

    TheGalacticVoid ,

    It also screws over the many churches or other religious organizations that genuinely do good for their communities

    SeattleRain ,

    If only he were in some position of power to do something about it hmmmmmm.

    Cornelius_Wangenheim ,

    Yeah, if only his party had control of the House.

    eldavi , (edited )

    – again

    they’ll still find some other excuse not to do anything the next time around.

    Cornelius_Wangenheim ,

    They impeached Trump twice. It’s not their fault the Constitution requires a 2/3 majority to convict and only 7 Republicans were willing to put country above party.

    anticolonialist ,

    And they will get enabled by democrats shielding their shitty politics

    UnderpantsWeevil ,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    Old enough to remember when Dems did control the House, but it didn’t do anything useful.

    spidermanchild ,

    Sure, assuming you don’t think the American rescue plan, bipartisan infrastructure act, CHIPS, IRA, and the first massive tranche of funding for Ukraine are useful. I don’t think you realize how short 2 years is for the legislature and how narrow the dem margin was. They achieved significantly more useful legislation than I thought possible. Unfortunately they didn’t codify Roe, overhaul SCOTUS, or harden our institutions against fascism, so maybe you’re right. Who knows what they could do with a larger majority and control of the House/Senate for 2 more years though - it would be fun to find out, if we could avoid getting all worked up blaming different people we mostly agree with and vote big against fascism.

    UnderpantsWeevil ,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    assuming you don’t think the American rescue plan, bipartisan infrastructure act, CHIPS, IRA, and the first massive tranche of funding for Ukraine are useful

    No more than the CARES Act or the PROSWIFT Act or the Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2021 or the Hong Kong Autonomy and Uyghur Human Rights Policy Acts, under the prior administration. We’ve never had a problem issuing large bipartisan bailouts in the thick of a recession, rolling out buckets of cash for proxy wars, or pissing away trillions on expanding legacy highway infrastructure. This is not something unique that Biden brought to the table.

    Hell, Trump was even sending military aid to Ukraine as early as 2019. One could argue it was this military escalation and subsequent bombing of the Donbas that kicked off the war with Russia to begin with. Thanks for that!

    Unfortunately they didn’t codify Roe, overhaul SCOTUS, or harden our institutions against fascism

    Because they’re a party heavily populated with Pro-Life Democrats, they genuinely like the business-friendly / anti-regulatory bent to the SCOTUS, and they are more than happy to break bread with fascists just so long as the fascists can be used as proxies against enemies of US business interests at home and abroad.

    This isn’t a fucking accident. It is deliberate bipartisan consensus.

    Who knows what they could do with a larger majority and control of the House/Senate for 2 more years though

    Exactly what they did in 2009. Send trillions of new dollars to the privatized tech sector. Roll out new privatization schemes for the USPS and US Education System. Bailout failed banks. Increase the size and the authority of police agencies. And impose a host of new unfunded mandates on consumers - via tariffs, anti-union tax increases on health insurance, and private lending schemes - that only serve to degrade quality of life in pursuit of higher corporate profits.

    FFS, the lowest hanging fruit imaginable for the Democratic Party is DC Statehood. Easiest win imaginable to just hand yourself two free Senators and 3-4 new House Reps. And they won’t do it.

    spidermanchild ,

    You’re still making the mistake of treating dems like some single monolith. It’s a coalition of just about everything that isn’t MAGA at this point, covering all sorts of ideals, yours being just one small part. The answer is still “get a majority of reps that aren’t asswipes” and then we’ll get legislation we want.

    As to DC statehood, it would have gone through if not for Manchin because the Senate “majority” at the time hinged on his support. We need to win these seats with bigger majorities, period, and then they’ll pass better bills. The overwhelming majorty of Dems support DC statehood, saying “they won’t do it” is not a great take when they literally didn’t have the votes.

    eldavi ,

    that was only a few years ago and i’m going to assume you’re older than 10.

    Burn_The_Right ,

    If he jails some Republican reps, we’ll have the majority.

    TokenBoomer ,

    Like Matt Gaetz, who should be in jail. And MTG, who should be in jail. And Lauren Boebert, who should be in jail. And…

    JasonDJ ,

    He doesn’t. Impeaching judges is the House’s job.

    You know your house rep is up for election this year?

    realitista ,

    Yeah but now he’s above the law, so I say do it anyway and overturn the ruling his damn self.

    madjo ,

    It sets precedents that you might not want, because if Trump or one of his cronies get into the oval office, they can do the same thing.

    imPastaSyndrome ,

    T h e y a l r e a d y w i l l

    TokenBoomer ,

    This notion of appeasement to fascism will doom us all.

    JasonDJ , (edited )

    I think the problem is, if Dems do it first, they’re not better than the Republicans.

    Unilateral dictatorships are unilateral dictatorships no matter who does it.

    You can’t win in a game where one side insists on cheating and one side insists on following the rules. Our system of governance wasn’t designed for this level of factionhood. It should and could’ve been stopped the right way maybe 20 or 30 years ago. At the least, 8 years ago. And the very last chance was when Trump’s second impeachment made it to the Senate.

    But now, there’s no chance.

    It’s not even really “cheating” that the Republicans are doing. Most everything is getting a “legal” stamp of approval. Just in a shady way that clearly and defiantly goes against everything this country has ever been about.

    Hey I know another politician who was pretty popular for his time that did the same thing. Bright young man with a funny mustache.

    FreakinSteve ,

    OH MY FUCKING GOD WHY DONT YOU FUCKING PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT THEY WILL ALREADY FUCKING DO THAT!!! THEY DO NOT NEED OR EVEN WANT DEMOCRAT PERMISSION OR PRECEDENT!!! Goddamn a you fucking milquetoast losers who defended free speech for Nazis all this time and got us in this fucking predicament!! You NEVER understand who you’re dealing with!!

    Buddahriffic ,

    If Trump gets back into office, it’s game over, unless the people are willing to fight a civil war to stop him. Though even that will probably be too little too late because of the power vacuum it will likely create on the world stage when WWIII already looks possible in the next decade.

    It might already be too late because I agree that Biden pushing his weight around with these new lack of presidential limits would get messy. But the cat is out of the bag right now and it’s not going to go quietly back in.

    Madison420 ,

    Legally … but the law doesn’t apply to the president so long as they’re doing it for a reason they believe to be official.

    trafficnab ,

    The ruling more or less explicitly states that Biden could go on national television, say “Won’t someone rid me of these troublesome justices?”, have them assassinated, and face no legal repercussions because using the bully pulpit is covered by presidential immunity

    Madison420 ,

    Farther. He could use the military or any branch of government to kill them and still get immunity. We now have a long, don’t get me wrong we always had some assumption that that’s how it went but seeing it on paper is an eye opener.

    Hell, he could sign literally every US asset over to anyone he pleases and there’s nothing we could do via a legal means. It’s not supposed to work that way but if no law constrains the office then the office is simply free to do literally whatever they want.

    Akuden ,

    The law applies to the president always.

    Here is what this ruling is for -

    First - if I order an enemy of the US dead I can be prosecuted.

    The president orders an enemy dead. That enemy is killed. The president cannot be prosecuted for that act.

    What this ruling does - the president may also not be prosecuted for that act after they leave office.

    That’s all this does. That’s it. If the president kills a maid in the White House he or she will go to prison because that is against the law and not within the duties of the office.

    Madison420 ,

    It doesnt.

    Nope.

    Agreed.

    No or means they can’t be prosecuted for it ever so long as it was under the guise of an official act.

    Nope, that maid was a spy and deserved what she got.

    crusa187 ,

    Ok Biden, time to do something about these fascists. They just gave you everything you need to squash the threat, on a silver platter fit for a king. It’s time to process the new information, understand the powers granted to you, and act - are you up to this task? Please don’t let America down, because you have asserted yourself as the only one who can now do anything about it.

    tiefling ,

    Never underestimate establishment Democrats’ ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory

    this_1_is_mine ,

    Fire a Justice… Or you know a couple…

    Out of a cannon.

    psycho_driver ,

    At a brick wall. 3 feet away.

    skulblaka ,
    @skulblaka@sh.itjust.works avatar

    The bricks don’t deserve that abuse.

    ZK686 ,

    Never mind the entire United States political system right? Let’s just ignore how our judicial system is set up, because, some liberals and democrats are mad that things aren’t going their way!

    this_1_is_mine ,

    Why not it seems to be working for the Republicans.

    FlaminGoku ,

    It hilarious because all of your gotchas are GOP projection. Gerrymandering is used by the GOP because reality has a liberal bias and they have to cut up counties to let them win.

    fine_sandy_bottom ,

    These threads are awash with comments like this but you can’t avoid fascism by becoming a fascist.

    Shit is fucked but arbitrary killing is not the solution.

    Delusional ,

    Well republican fascism isn’t being stopped by the normal way of doing things since they don’t even take the law into consideration and keep fighting dirty. Seems to me that someone needs to fight dirty against them. As long as the rule of law and checks and balances can be continued afterwards then we’re good but currently, we’re heading into christofascism.

    fine_sandy_bottom ,

    As long as the rule of law and checks and balances can be continued afterwards

    Historically that never happens and it’s naive to think that it would.

    SeducingCamel ,

    Damn you right guess we just give up the country to trump

    fine_sandy_bottom ,

    That’s a false dichotomy.

    BigMacHole ,

    Biden: The Supreme Court ruled I can do ANYTHING I WANT!

    Also Biden: So I will do NOTHING! Please Vote kthxbai!

    ExFed ,

    Yes, because he actually cares about what the Constitution stands for, not just some adversarial power game. Claim the paradox of tolerance all you want, but fighting fire with fire here is just participating in the same race to the bottom that’s destroying our democracy here in the USA.

    Land_Strider ,

    Preemptive strikes exist. Law does not need to apply after the fact if the law is allowed preventive measures.

    And arguing about if one should take such a preventive strike, yes they should since the perp has already declared threatening intentions to cause immediate harm.

    flicker ,

    The people arguing against using this new power because using it now makes you just as bad as “them,” are the dog-sitting-in-a-room-on-fire meme.

    "Using the fire ax is just as evil as destroying the house yourself! Get fucked. We caught the Republicans smoking. Make them smoke the whole pack.

    aniki ,

    Only you plebs argue about the constitution while the people in charge treat it like a napkin.

    Tja ,

    Alternative take: letting Republicans do whatever they want and not fighting back or taking actions to prevent it, is what is destroying your democracy.

    ExFed ,

    Unless you’re willing to claim we’re in a civil war, then I’m not willing to call Republicans “the enemy” … That’s that the real enemies of America want of us: to divide and conquer from within.

    Sanctus ,
    @Sanctus@lemmy.world avatar

    The Republicans are literal claiming this is war and treating it as such.

    mlg ,
    @mlg@lemmy.world avatar

    FDR trying to pack the crap out of scotus with liberal judges so all his social reforms would actually go through instead of being struckdown.

    CaptainSpaceman ,

    Modern dems cant fathom having gumption. All they have is furrowed brows while the repubs destroy dismantle and overthrow.

    Dem brow furrowing will intensify until GOP is the one true ruler.

    GoodEye8 ,

    If he has practicality no limits what’s preventing him from getting the decision undone and making it so that the president could never have such power?

    If he has all the power in the world he should also have power to undo that power.

    Natanael ,

    He doesn’t have legislative power, that’s the difference. He controls the executive branch, so he can direct law enforcement and regulator agencies and more however he wants. But he can’t single-handedly restrict his own power in a way the next president can’t undo

    GoodEye8 ,

    So tell SCOTUS either they reverse it and add that they’ll never do it again or they get “executive ordered”. If they refuse you “executive order” them, after all that’s what they thought wouldn’t be illegal. Continue until you get a SCOTUS who won’t refuse. If the SCOTUS wants to throw their lives away for their own stupidity, let them.

    _number8_ ,

    https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/e48cc39c-a2c1-4a39-b803-1e80aaea167e.png

    Natanael ,

    Biden has moved worker rights and more forwards, what’s your point?

    ShepherdPie ,

    Like when he broke up the rail union strike shortly before that horrible train crash in Ohio that unleashed toxic black clouds over the town?

    Natanael ,

    You mean when the rail union got what they asked for, because all while Trump supported companies against unions,

    michiganadvance.com/…/uaw-president-says-trump-vi…

    The rail union thanked the Biden administration for helping getting their demands through,

    www.ibew.org/media-center/…/230620_IBEWandPaid

    "We’re thankful that the Biden administration played the long game on sick days and stuck with us for months after Congress imposed our updated national agreement,” Russo said. “Without making a big show of it, Joe Biden and members of his administration in the Transportation and Labor departments have been working continuously to get guaranteed paid sick days for all railroad workers.

    “We know that many of our members weren’t happy with our original agreement,” Russo said, “but through it all, we had faith that our friends in the White House and Congress would keep up the pressure on our railroad employers to get us the sick day benefits we deserve. Until we negotiated these new individual agreements with these carriers, an IBEW member who called out sick was not compensated.”

    You’re forgetting that the goal of unions isn’t to strike, it’s to protect their member’s rights, and they got their rights. Strikes is one means of applying pressure, Biden applied pressure by other means

    ShepherdPie ,

    because he actually cares about what the Constitution stands for

    I think you’re just projecting your own beliefs onto him. I seriously doubt any politician at this level gives two shits about anything but themselves and their power.

    ExFed ,

    I think you’re just projecting your own beliefs onto him.

    That’s fair; my statement was pretty strong. But I think we can agree that by comparison Biden cares more about it than his opponent, a known insurrectionist.

    lone_faerie ,

    The constitution has been ripped to shreds, spit on, and set on fire. Any moral high ground is meaningless at this point.

    FlaminGoku ,

    If he clearly cared, he would get rid of the fucking traitors that are in office, right now.

    Draegur ,

    Wow it’s a shame he’s a fucking pussy who won’t author an ‘official act’ to oust the supreme court.

    bolexforsoup ,

    You don’t need to resort to misogyny/sexist insults to make a point.

    CraigeryTheKid ,

    Now I need to look up the origin of that word. I thought it came up separately from the body part reference.

    bolexforsoup ,

    “Pussy” is pretty narrowly used in place of “vagina” and is used almost exclusively as an insult to call someone weak or cowardly (outside of a sexual context).

    Theprogressivist ,
    @Theprogressivist@lemmy.world avatar

    And what’s the problem? If it were sexist they would be using “stop being a woman” compared to “stop being a pussy”. One is sexist the other is just an insult. Grow some skin. This is the internet, after all.

    bolexforsoup ,

    is just an insult

    You are so close. What makes being a pussy a bad thing? Why is that an insult? Unpack that for a second. Use your critical thinking skills.

    CaptainSpaceman ,

    Because pussies tend to be soft and delicate and theyre saying he should be hard and strong instead of soft and delicate.

    bolexforsoup ,

    It is baffling to me that what you just wrote didn’t sort this out for you.

    CaptainSpaceman ,

    Have you ever touched a hard, rigid, strong pussy?

    bolexforsoup ,

    We both know you aren’t so narrow minded as to actually believe the argument you’re making. You’ve ditched common sense/basic social literacy in an effort to win an Internet argument. If you’re not going to actually have a real discussion then we can move on.

    Lightor ,

    Lol this was never a real discussion, it was someone clutching their pearls and normal people laughing at them.

    bolexforsoup ,

    I’m not sure why you’re wasting your time with a pearl-clutcher then. Surely you don’t need my validation to keep acting like an asshole, so why are you still here? It’s not like my approval means anything. Just block me and be done with it 🤷‍♂️ So congrats! You’ve won the war for moral high ground and your right to call someone a pussy. Truly valiantly fought, you are the winner. I’m sure it feels amazing.

    [cue some dross about how this is just funny/entertaining to you without any consideration for how sad that is]

    I’m just gonna save us a lot of time and move on. Feel free to have the last word, I’m sure it’s very important to you.

    CaptainSpaceman ,

    You’ve said a lot in this thread without actually saying anything. Impressive!

    Lightor ,

    Lol and what makes having a low temperature desirable, because those people are cool. You really are digging for something to be offended by.

    bolexforsoup ,

    Do I really need to point out that this is a false equivalency?

    Lightor ,

    You could, but you’d be wrong. You take a word with a literal meaning and use it as slang, giving it another making. Do I really need to point out how slang works?

    Lightor ,

    You sound like a real dick

    bolexforsoup ,

    As opposed to a fake one?

    Lightor ,

    Ey, you’re catching on

    bolexforsoup ,

    Jfc how bored do you need to be to have like four different conversations going with me. Feel free to have the last word, I’m sure it’s very important to you. I’m done

    Lightor ,

    Lol, look at how many convos you have, how bored must you be? Somehow I’m worse because I’m talking with one person, not 10? But ya, silly me engaging in conversation on a forum.

    Lol, this “have the last word” line is basically a meme at this point. I’ve called out your issues and hypocrisy in other to threads you don’t respond to, but you respond to this with a weak attempt to save face. You had a bad take, got called out, and now you’re running away, tail between your legs.

    You’ve been done, when half a dozen people wrecked your bad stance, at least you recognize it now.

    Soulg ,

    It did. It’s an abbreviation of the word pusillanimous.

    However, almost everybody thinks it’s referring to vagina, so it doesn’t really matter anymore. Even most people who use it think that.

    bolexforsoup ,

    What matters is 99.99% of people understand “pussy” as “vagina” so yeah that’s kind of the issue here.

    Soulg ,

    You’ll notice that I said that in my post.

    bolexforsoup ,

    I didn’t disagree

    kitnaht ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    Bassman27 ,

    Calls you out on the word pussy but doesn’t call you out on the word cunt lmao

    kitnaht , (edited )

    That would be xenophobic, because the word is used everywhere in the UK constantly. (/s of course)

    Edit: The removed comment above was mine, and I told Bolex that using the word pussy isn’t misogynistic, just like calling someone a dick isn’t misandrist… World News mods didn’t like that though because people were agreeing with me…and we can’t have anyone calling out the victim-olympics, wouldn’t want that!

    Seabyte ,

    How dare you? Haven’t you seen the World News logo? This is a criticism-free zone.

    Theprogressivist ,
    @Theprogressivist@lemmy.world avatar

    Geez, how fragile.

    bolexforsoup ,

    You’re trying too hard

    Burghler ,

    And you got ratio’d kiddo

    bolexforsoup ,

    Imagine thinking fake Internet points matter, let alone decide who is right and wrong. I thought those of us who left Reddit learned that lesson. I guess it takes a little longer for some of us 🤷‍♂️

    Tell you what, let’s go through your comment history and find all the times you were on the wrong side and make sure you adjust your views accordingly. Fair’s fair right?

    Burghler ,

    You do you pal. I replied because you keep doubling down. I don’t care much to fit some homogeneous mindset so I’m fine being wrong. The fake internet point blackhole you got going does got you riled up evident by this engagement

    bolexforsoup ,

    Bro YOU brought up the vote count! You are the one who acted like it matters. I literally don’t even know what the scores are - it doesn’t show downvotes on my end, so no I really do not care what the vote counts are but you can go ahead and feel superior about… I don’t know, owning somebody because you think you should be able to call people a pussy without having to consider what the word means? Congratulations, you won! Must feel great. You really brought home a W for free speech on that one. Truly this is what you should be fighting for.

    I am happy to double down on telling people that they should maybe consider the language they use. If you find that offensive and feel the need to go to war over it I don’t know what to tell you. If I’m a sick puppy you’re at the vet with me too lol

    Burghler ,

    I’m not that invested in this to read all that sorry. I’m sure it all means well, or not. Idk. But best of luck m8

    bolexforsoup , (edited )

    How on earth is that text intimidating to you lmfao

    Whatever dude don’t care

    Lightor ,

    They’re not the one crying about a bad word online lol

    cabron_offsets ,

    Christ, can you fuck off?

    bolexforsoup ,

    The block feature is readily available to you. Enjoy!

    Draegur ,

    Good point.

    Blocked.

    bolexforsoup ,

    Bye!

    FlaminGoku ,

    These are the fucking hand wringing “liberals” that I can’t stand.

    Feelings over Freedom!

    I don’t know where I fall because whereas I believe in equity for all and protecting the children and planet and all that shit, I also strongly lean towards swift and immediate retribution and don’t care whose feelings get hurt.

    bolexforsoup ,

    Lmfao I’m taking your freedom? How dramatic.

    SoupBrick ,

    I am fairly certain “pussy” is slang for pusillanimous. Can it be used misogynisticly, yes. Was that the intent here, I don’t think so based off the context.

    www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pusillanimous

    bolexforsoup ,

    All of us learned it as a way to call someone a “vagina” to highlight they are weak or cowardly. You can’t possibly tell me that wasn’t how you learned it.

    SoupBrick ,

    So based off of that comment alone and the context surrounding it, do you truly believe their intent was to be misogynistic or were they using slang to emphisize their frustration while calling Biden a coward?

    bolexforsoup , (edited )

    Intention is irrelevant. Otherwise I could just call people slurs and argue the slur’s meaning is irrelevant. The insult is clearly associating having/being a vagina with cowardice and weakness.

    SoupBrick ,

    Yeah, I guess I can see your point. I was under the impression that a lot more people were aware of the root of that word. I grew up reading a lot of books, so I guess that factored into my view. Thanks for the perspective, I am all for phasing out legitimately problematic language.

    bolexforsoup ,

    I’m not 100% what your upbringing was, but at least for us in America generally you learned that word sometime in middle school as something to call other boys as an insult. You’re definitely well read because frankly I’ve never even heard that word until this thread lol

    lone_faerie ,

    And the f slur means “a bundle of sticks”. That doesn’t make it not a slur.

    bolexforsoup ,

    I’m glad to see someone else here talking sense

    Pandantic ,
    @Pandantic@midwest.social avatar

    From the link:

    And despite what you may have heard, pusillanimous does not serve as the basis for pussyfoot, pussycat, or a certain related vulgarism.

    Mango ,

    Imagine thinking that being offended is going to stop someone from using speech for the specific purpose of offending.

    FlaminGoku ,

    Shut up wuss.

    bolexforsoup ,

    Damn I got got! What a big strong man you are! You sure showed me!

    Let me give you a little tip I gave someone else: the block button is easily within your grasp, if maybe a bit advanced for you. But i’m sure that with hard work and determination even you could figure out how to use it.

    Bye!

    Mango ,

    I came into this post and your comment was pre-upvoted for me somehow. I didn’t upvote you, but I’m gonna keep it.

    FlaminGoku ,

    Right? Order the DOJ to lock up all of the justices (so it’s bi-partisan!).

    nobleshift ,
    @nobleshift@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_author

    •
    UnderpantsWeevil ,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    I don’t understand why we aren’t in the streets.

    We were in the streets for Palestine and then some seriously bad shit happened.

    ArmokGoB ,

    Because people are spineless cowards that won’t meet the fascist police with armed force in the streets.

    electric_nan ,

    Not everyone needs to fight cops in the streets (respect and support to those that do!). There are other ways to fight as well: organizing strikes, sabotage, [redacted]. I think the main problem is that the fascism pot has been simmering for so long, that people are mostly used to it, and can no longer really imagine the alternative. We’re so isolated from each other, and desperate to survive that too many of us will “keep calm and carry on” as long as it isn’t our necks on the chopping block.

    colmear ,

    Isn’t that exactly the reason for the second amendment? From what I learned, it is not to go to the gun range because it’s fun, it is to fight the government if it goes rogue

    ArmokGoB ,

    It is, yes.

    uienia ,

    It is not. It is the interpretation right wing gunnits have claimed it is, so there is that I suppose…

    rottingleaf ,

    They are free to interpret it this way just as you are your way.

    It would be weird for a new polity, result of a winning rebellion against lawful government, and definitely against its laws (some people think one can rebel not breaking any laws, apparently, claiming there are legal and illegal rebellions), to not have this in mind frankly.

    And from the context of the second amendment we know that back then it was interpreted exactly as a militia that can fight against federal military.

    One can argue in theory that this doesn’t mean individual gun rights, just that states should have their own armies (national guard). One can’t argue that it’s not intended for rebellion, because it very openly was.

    rottingleaf ,

    TBF to fight a government that went rogue in our time you’ll need a whole lot more than knowing how to shoot a rifle.

    Field medicine. Chemistry. How to build underground shelters against airstrikes. How to make mortars and mortar shots in garage with commonly available tooling. Using FPV drones, of course. Using (and possibly making) AT shots. Maybe simple (Katyusha-level) artillery manufacturing. Making mines.

    That’s just some of the manufacturing knowledge you’ll need, it’s much more.

    Communications - something easy to get wrong.

    Then - tactics and teamwork, of course. It’s a lot to learn and requires lots of training.

    Logistics. Something which doesn’t seem as hard as the rest, while in fact the hardest.

    And I’m just mentioning things, one can write a book for every one of them.

    Linkerbaan ,
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    I heard nothing bad happened and Joe Biden isn’t a fascist.

    linux2647 ,

    But I am le tired

    queue ,
    @queue@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Then go have a nap… THEN FIRE ZA MISSLES!

    anticolonialist ,

    Always beware of the fact, that the only thing hindering an all-out revolution is your fear of losing the scraps they throw at you. Gore Vidal

    irotsoma ,
    @irotsoma@lemmy.world avatar

    Because we’re exhausted and can’t afford to lose what little we all have. Even one day in jail can mean losing your job, even if charges are dropped. And a conviction could mean being stuck with only jobs that don’t pay a living wage for the rest of your life and few of us have enough savings to survive that for long.

    kaffiene ,

    Yeah. If this isn’t cause to strike, nothing is

    ZombieMantis ,
    @ZombieMantis@lemmy.world avatar

    The infrastructure for a national strike does not exist in America. You need a lot of labor to be organized, and it just isn’t. We can barely get individual facilities to go on strike, let alone an entire country. We used to, and that’s how we pressured politicians into the New Deal, but organized labor has been dismantled since then.

    As for why we’re not more like the French, a lot of it comes down to this: They have more unionized workers, as a fraction of the working population, than we do.

    Perhaps we forget, here on our islands of leftist beliefs, but the average American is not a radical Socialist, Communist, or Anarchist. They are not tuned-in closely to politics, they are not media literate, they are not part of any active organization besides maybe a local church. They’re not going to upend their lives over something they don’t understand, without any way to plan with their coworkers.

    rottingleaf ,

    We used to, and that’s how we pressured politicians into the New Deal, but organized labor has been dismantled since then.

    It’s the downside of very rapid economic and social development in USA as compared to France since then. When things are changing so fast, some you just lose, maybe don’t even think you need them anymore, and have to build them again.

    EDIT: And most of the planet is less conscious than the French for this matter.

    hempster ,

    Let me remind you of Civil Rights strikes and protests

    UltraGiGaGigantic ,

    "First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can’t agree with your methods of direct action;” who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a “more convenient season.”

    Shallow understanding from people of goodwill is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection."

    • MLK jr
    ours ,

    Terrible timing to bring up the French. They are scrambling to prevent the most right-wing turn since WWII.

    CileTheSane ,
    @CileTheSane@lemmy.ca avatar

    I’m reminded of all the “France Surrenders” memes I’ve seen. Meanwhile the French shut down their country at the suggestion of the retirement age increasing. An unelected group of 6 people decide your king president can do whatever they want with no consequence and Americans just shake their fists at the cloud complain online.

    UltraGiGaGigantic ,

    Didn’t the French have to recently choose between a shitter who fucked them over (Macron) and putins nazi buddy (Le pen)?

    Man, we really are more alike then we realize.

    Wilzax ,

    “Biden Blasts Supreme Court” could have a whole new meaning after their latest ruling

    Comment105 , 
    
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    FlaminGoku ,

    Please make this happen.

    absGeekNZ ,
    @absGeekNZ@lemmy.nz avatar

    What is to stop Biden from cancelling the upcoming election?

    Being now his powers are effectively unchecked, couldn’t he just call off the election as an official act. Rather than stupid shit like ordering assassination or deploying the military, just say “I’m cancelling the election until such time this ruling is overturned and a constitutional amendment is enacted that states that the president is not immune from criminal prosecution”

    Imgonnatrythis ,

    Saving that move for Trump. It’s the dystopian future I guess we deserve.

    UltraGiGaGigantic ,

    Couldn’t even make it 300 years.

    ryven ,
    @ryven@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    This protects him from prosecution but doesn’t require other officials to help him break the law. States don’t need the president’s approval to run elections, and Congress doesn’t need his approval to certify the votes of electors in the presidential election specifically.

    tiefling ,

    He can just pardon all of them, and his discussions can’t even be questioned in court now. Hell, bribery is legal now too.

    absGeekNZ ,
    @absGeekNZ@lemmy.nz avatar

    This reminds me of something…gaining favor of the ruler is key to your advancement.

    helenslunch ,
    @helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

    What is to stop Biden from cancelling the upcoming election?

    Uhhhh he literally can’t. Not because it’s a crime, but because it’s not within his authority. This doesn’t just give them carte blanche to do whatever they want, it just means they can’t be charged with a crime.

    absGeekNZ ,
    @absGeekNZ@lemmy.nz avatar

    Ok, fair enough.

    I’m not from the US so my understanding of your system is surface level.

    Could he give himself the power to do this?

    Joncash2 ,

    Only in times of war. It’s literally one of the checks and balances to specifically prevent a president from stopping an election. Now, if we start a full blown war with Russia…

    absGeekNZ ,
    @absGeekNZ@lemmy.nz avatar

    I hear those checks and balances are starting to look a little unreliable.

    MartianSands ,

    The president can’t actually make law, as far as I understand it. He, and the various offices managed by the executive branch, apply and enforce the law which Congress has written (give or take some interpretation by the courts).

    Sometimes of those laws specifically give the executive broad enough authority over something that it’s very similar to the president being able to write laws about it, but it’s not quite the same and it cant overrule actual laws

    helenslunch ,
    @helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

    No, he does not have the authority to give himself the authority to cancel the election.

    ZombieMantis ,
    @ZombieMantis@lemmy.world avatar

    The US government is based on the idea of separation of powers, and making the President as weak as possible while still being able to do his job. The President can’t just decide he has a new authority, Congress has to sign legislation that delegates a specific authority to the President. That authority is typically organized in the from of a Cabinet office, which is filled with the advise and consent or Congress.

    America was made to abolish kings, that’s why this ruling is so ludicrous, so antithetical to the very Constitution the court is supposed to uphold, and why people are so up in arms about it.

    shottymcb ,

    He’s the commander in chief of the US military. If there aren’t repercussions for exceeding his authority, it’s essentially unlimited.

    kent_eh ,

    If there aren’t repercussions for exceeding his authority,

    There still are repercussions, all that has changed is that personal criminal prosecution is no longer among those.

    helenslunch ,
    @helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

    LOL no, that’s absolutely not true.

    RizzRustbolt ,

    He doesn’t need to cancel the elections. He just needs to wait until after the conventions, when congress and the supreme court are in recess. And then he issues an executive order barring convicted felons from holding federal office.

    kandoh ,

    That would be some very funny chaos

    helenslunch ,
    @helenslunch@feddit.nl avatar

    Trump’s election had an enormous impact that seems to have survived his Presidency, and will continue to do so for decades to come.

    anlumo ,

    Probably a lot longer. These SCOTUS decrees will last until the US crumbles to dust.

    Although, they might have accellerated the timeline towards the end significantly.

    thisbenzingring ,

    They charge rulings but usually only generations later.

    RizzRustbolt ,

    “This is not a place of honor”, but it’s for the Supreme Court building.

    skulblaka ,
    @skulblaka@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Trump’s election proved that most of America’s governmental system was based around a series of “gentlemen’s agreements” and an expectation of fair play. America is not resilient to betrayal in any fashion. If one person stops respecting the rule of fair play the entire system crumbles.

    Hawanja ,

    I like how every single one of these comments are blaming Biden and the Democrats for a supreme court ruling that the conservatives and Republicans enacted. How about we put the blame on the people who are actually doing the terrible things?

    This is why the Republicans keep winning btw, because they’re united.

    Miaou ,

    If you don’t put down a rabid dog and get bitten, I’m not going to blame the dog.

    PaintedSnail ,

    We’re not talking about a diseased animal, we’re talking about people who are making conscious decisions knowing what the results will be. I can and so absolutely blame people for that.

    Your metaphor insinuates that Republicans are unable to control their actions. If that were the case, that’s all the more reason to vote and get them out of positions of power.

    deaf_fish ,

    I don’t think you understand. No reasonable person thinks that republicans are good or not to blame. Blaming the republicans won’t stop them from taking power. They have done and continue to do what they have said they will do and the Democratic party has done nothing to stop them.

    It’s like your sky diving, and your parachute fails to open. Do you get upset at gravity or the guy who packed your parachute? Yeah, gravity is what is going to kill you, but it doesn’t care, that was the plan. The guy who packed the parachute is your only real way of controlling the situation.

    The Democratic Party packed the parachute and it isn’t opening. Hopefully it does soon.

    PaintedSnail ,

    And now you compare the Republicans to some natural force, as if they are inevitable and inescapable. Gravity has no will, no plan. It just is. Republicans have a will and a plan. Getting mad at the Democrats for not being good enough to stop that is akin to victim blaming. The Republicans should never have gone down this road in the first place.

    Do you blame the thief, or do you blame the homeowner for not having better locks? Who do you hold accountable?

    deaf_fish ,

    The Republicans should never have gone down this road in the first place.

    I think this is the crutch of our disagreement. My question to you is why? The Republicans want power. They want to turn the US into a Free Market Theocracy. Why shouldn’t they do what they are doing? I personally think what they are doing is bad, but why should they care?

    Getting mad at the Democrats for not being good enough to stop that is akin to victim blaming.

    I am more interested in your response to my first point, but I couldn’t let this stand. It’s such a bad comparison. Both the Dems and Republicans are fighting for power, they are not a victim and an aggressor, they are both aggressors.

    Do you blame the thief, or do you blame the homeowner for not having better locks?

    I blame the police for not arresting the thief when they revealed their plans to rob my house before they robbed it.

    Kroxx ,

    Watched the debate, this is a verbatim quote I pulled from the transcript, Biden: “And if I’m elected, I’m going to restore Roe v. Wade.” Why does he have to wait for re-election?

    I expect Reps. to strip rights and will always blame them for that. The flip side of that is I expect Dems. to restore them, which isn’t happening and so they should be criticized. It’s just always “we’ll fix it in the future” which is why I put the biden quote in.

    h3mlocke ,

    “Ain’t no foolin’…”

    PaintedSnail ,

    Because the Republicans control Congress, and at this point only an act of Congress can restore it.

    It comes down to this: a Republican president would veto any abortion protection law, but a Democratic president would pass it. But the law has to get to his desk first.

    jimmie_cricket007 ,
    @jimmie_cricket007@lemmy.world avatar

    The party that wants to strip rights are the democrats. They would love nothing more than to disarm every single American. The only “right” they would make sure women had was the “right” to kill babies.

    Biden is such a hypocrite. He is claiming Trump would abuse immunity, yet he states he would directly violate the Supreme Court by restoring roe v. wade.

    Also, presidents have always had immunity while in office, the Supreme’s just upheld that fact. And immunity hasn’t change by this ruling. A president can’t commit murder and claim immunity.

    SaltySalamander ,

    Weak bait.

    seanziepples ,

    Only congress can do something and they tried and failed because we didn’t have enough of a majority. Vote down-ticket blue to get as much control as possible.

    abcnews.go.com/Politics/…/story?id=84627147

    swunchy ,

    Why doesn’t Biden just illegally overturn this ruling? He has immunity

    ZK686 ,

    WTF are you smoking? This ENTIRE website blasts Trump and Republicans for EVERYTHING!! Welcome to Reddit 2.0.

    SaltySalamander ,

    Deservedly so.

    UltraGiGaGigantic ,

    Maybe you should Unite with people that are left of Richard Nixon some day soon.

    Hawanja ,

    This is what I’m talking about. Maybe you should stop reacting with fear and spite to everyone who’s trying to help you and actually contribute to defeating the fascists instead of sitting around complaining about losing all the time.

    archchan ,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    aesthelete ,

    At what point do Americans use that 2nd Amendment against tyranny as it was intended? Or is that difficult because the wrong party and classes have most of the guns?

    People advocating for leftists to go out into the streets with firearms forget recent history:

    …wikipedia.org/…/Killings_of_Aaron_Danielson_and_…

    The supreme court just made this type of thing entirely legal as well. Not that it mattered. I have to Google the incident everytime because it didn’t even register as a blip on the national radar, but the feds likely executed this guy.

    I unfortunately don’t know what the answer is or if there even is one, but this country historically and certainly recently doesn’t take kindly to armed leftists.

    TopRamenBinLaden , (edited )

    I don’t think that case is a good comparison to a bunch of leftists taking up arms against the state. That was protestor on protestor violence and involved two people. Had nothing to do with a bunch of Americans standing up to a tyrranical government at once. The Marshall’s response was disgusting, but that’s to be expected with someone like Trump holding the reins.

    Some better examples would be MOVE in Philadelphia who got bombed, and the black panthers in California who got the Republican led government to make laws against the second amendment. Still, I think these groups were too small, we just need more people.

    You do bring up a good point, but we haven’t really tried, yet. It might be different when the feds are actually against a large group, but they will never be deterred by smaller groups. The problem is actually getting enough people to care enough. People are very attached to their bread and circuses, and I understand. The revolution would not be an enjoyable struggle.

    FreakinSteve ,

    What fucking “leftists”??? Where?? How is arming up against a fascist dictatorship “leftist”?? The simple fact is that Americans are spoiled fucking slobs who refuse to back up anyone that calls for resistance. On another platform I’m taking all sorts of heat from fucking brunchers who are terrified about trumpism but think arming up and being ready to defend self or neighbors makes me a barbaric ghoul and a “rittenhouse”.

    aesthelete ,

    What, pray tell, do you expect from online denizens in general? We aren’t generally on here to organize a revolution or counterrevolution, we’re on here to kill thirty minutes on break from work.

    And you’re on here too. If this shit is so important why are you here on memeville posting it up instead of actually doing anything about it?

    FreakinSteve ,

    I’m here to get a message out to people on break from their work

    retrospectology , (edited )
    @retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

    To be honest I’m pretty energized. Not for Biden obviously, but just glad to see Democrats actually shifting their asses and just for people to finally be piecing together the predicament that the Democratic establishment has put us all in. There’s potential for actual change here, even if it requires going through some chaos and pain.

    The pressure of the non-vote threat is actually being felt by party leadership and they appear to be delicately trying to create an environment that will allow Biden to accept that he needs to step down. It would actually be huge for the party’s health if they pulled it off.

    trafficnab ,

    We’re supposed to be evolving into a more free society… this is just going backwards.

    You have discovered the great fallacy, the presumption that democracy and freedom are the natural course of things: they are not. Every single inch of it we have was taken by force from kings and dictators, and they’re always waiting in the shadows for their opportunity to take it back.

    The peace dividend created by the end of the cold war has unfortunately made an entire generation of people who believe this fallacy, this is one of the glaring reminders that it’s not true. Democracy and freedom are things that must be actively maintained in perpetuity by everyone who wants them, we must be ready and willing to use all four boxes of democracy (soap, ballot, jury, AND ammo) to defend it for the rest of our lives. We must educate, we must vote, we must nullify unjust laws, and we must arm ourselves, because at the end of the day, violence is the one enforcement method that everyone is forced to listen to. It doesn’t matter how right you are if the other side has more people willing to kill and die for their cause than yours does, so we better damn well make sure that’s not the case.

    ZK686 ,

    So, you don’t think Obama and Clinton deserve some kind of immunity? Do you REALLY think they’re both completely innocent? Do you REALLY think their hands are clean?

    sirico ,
    @sirico@feddit.uk avatar

    The British The British

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