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Accounts which solely post advertisements, or persistently post them may be terminated.

eager_eagle ,
@eager_eagle@lemmy.world avatar

The power of 21000 homes for advertising.

What’s most impressive is that it is even legal.

LodeMike ,

Or profitable

CosmoNova ,

Is it? Last I‘ve heard it was bleeding money.

LodeMike ,

Makes sense. Gimmicks are gimmicks.

ShepherdPie ,

Probably because they’re not doing much with it. It’s $100/person to see the basic “Planet Earth” showing and almost $200 to see The Grateful Dead show. Previously they showed a Phish show. That’s it for options, and none of it sounds really appealing to me.

SatansMaggotyCumFart ,

U2 played in it, too.

ShepherdPie ,

I’m sure these bands are all appealing to some, but it seems like they’re really squandering the potential with them playing the same two shows over and over for months.

SatansMaggotyCumFart ,

U2 is the best band ever, Bono told me that.

blakemiller ,

This way some faulty internet lore. The money losses were from a fluke of timing the opening date of operations versus when quarterly finances were reported. Big startup costs meant the first numbers looked silly until they had enough events to get steady profits. They’re doing fine now.

Internet should’ve known better too. It’s hard to lose in Vegas and the investors obviously knew what they were doing. The power costs are shocking for sure though. Yikes!

treadful ,
@treadful@lemmy.zip avatar

I love this kind of shit. Building things for the sake of it is worth it. Not only as just expression, which may be hubris but it’s still expression. Also entertainment, inspiration, pushing the art of engineering, and just giving people something to do, and all the good that comes with that like personal and trade growth.

A purely utilitarian life is a life only spent on survival. Not a life I want to live.

assassinatedbyCIA ,

We can do that, but first let’s make sure everyone on the planet has clean water first.

nooneescapesthelaw ,

The money spent on this would not have been spent on giving clean water to people thousands of miles away

dandi8 ,
@dandi8@fedia.io avatar

Does this really make it any less worthy of criticism, though...?

hoch ,

Yes?

brbposting ,

Is that where guillotines come in?

nikita ,

Maybe it would’ve if governments taxed them properly and spent that money to save the planet

BruceTwarzen ,

So we might a well build some shit.

frunch ,

Hey, it’s just $2,300,000,000

Can’t even feed a packed homeless shelter for that much ¯_(ツ)_/¯

sigmaklimgrindset ,

How about using it for the free school lunches that the Governor decided to veto for some fucking reason?

RogueBanana ,

We would rather have the children starve to death than being called a communist.

nooneescapesthelaw ,

It was privately funded, this money would not have gone to school lunches

assassinatedbyCIA ,

Doesn’t flint still not have clean water?

nooneescapesthelaw ,

Those are two different states, plus flint does have clean water now (although the effects of contamination and lead exposure still remain in people who grew up drinking it)

danc4498 ,

This is the equivalent of saying “Eat all your dinner cause there’s starving children in Africa”.

Sure, this sounds nice, but this logic falls apart the instant you start thinking about it.

CybranM ,

You sound like the people criticising NASA for spending money on science. “Who do X when Y is still an issue?”

I doubt you make that kind of prioritization with your own money.

wholookshere ,

NASA also consistently provides new innovation and new science.

What will the dome keep contributing to society for the absurd electricity cost it takes to keep running? Advertisements?

Yeah, there not really the same argument.

rasensprenger ,

I understand that perspective, but does it really have to be advertising?

treadful ,
@treadful@lemmy.zip avatar

I’d prefer if it weren’t. Though that’s not the only use for this thing.

todd_bonzalez ,

A purely utilitarian life is a life only spent on survival. Not a life I want to live.

Well, that hubris won’t afford you a livable world for much longer.

We could have respected the planet that birthed us, and taken only what we needed. Instead we extracted every natural resource we could find, and left behind countless shattered ecosystems. Even as the walls close in, we accelerate our pettiness and perform acts of wastefulness that alone do measurable ecological damage, and we celebrate it because it is “cool”.

https://lemm.ee/pictrs/image/bfffcad0-9c06-4c79-abbb-d806c724498a.jpeg

AIhasUse ,

If this is something you feel strongly about, then please stop eating factory farmed meat and animal products if you havent already. It is something you personally can actually do. It helps, and it will genuinely make you feel better. You may not have much power, but using the power you do have to help the team you claim to be on instead of the other team is a massive step forward.

todd_bonzalez ,

Look, you’re not really wrong, but you get that this shit is why people get irritated with vegans right? We were talking about being wasteful with energy resources for the sake of capitalism and you came in with a lazy segue to animal rights and nutritional health.

It’s a conversation that we should be having, but it’s also insufferable to constantly be shoehorning it into every conversation.

Teppichbrand , (edited )

I don’t agree. The comment points out the single most effektive move an individal without political nor financial power can make to cut personal co2-emissions with just a change of habit. It’s not about veganism, animal rights or your health, it’s just about sanity. Us still eating meat even though we know better is an incredibly dumb waste of energy for the sake of pleasure, exactly like this shitty powereating globe.
As long as >95% of the global population still consumes meat I understand the urge to bring this topic everywhere.

todd_bonzalez ,

Oh, you’re one of those “you can save the planet with your personal habits” people…

You enjoy your salad. I’m wondering what it takes to firebomb an oil refinery.

AIhasUse ,

And you are one of those “every problem on the planet is the fault of someone else other than me so I can do whatever I want with no regard for it’s affect on anyone else” people. Stay away from us if you can’t be bothered to carry your own weight, you just drag down people who actually give a shit about something other than their own immediate selfish gratification.

todd_bonzalez ,

you are one of those “every problem on the planet is the fault of someone else other than me…”

Yes.

https://lemm.ee/pictrs/image/b2cfa123-4777-421a-afd6-a101826cd3d9.jpeg

AIhasUse ,

There are things in your power to change and things out of your power to change. What you are doing is sadly trying to excuse yourself from doing what you can do because of the existence of things you can’t. It’s absolutely because you are lazy. If everyone were like you, we would be screwed. As it is, the good things come from people who are not like you. You’re welcome. As someone who tries to help, you are a burden we have to deal with, we would appreciate it if you picked up some rope and helped us pull instead of just laying on the sled complaining.

Teppichbrand ,

The Top 1% have the power to cause so much damage. You most likely belong to the Top 10% and your reasoning is exactly the same: “Not my fault. Why would I change, as long as everyone else doesn’t.” But Prioners dilemma makes it worse for everyone involved. So be a better person than them, be the change you want to see in them and stop pointing fingers like a spoiled kid.

Jrockwar ,

Take a train instead of a flight. Cycle to work or take public transport instead of driving. Install a heat pump or solar in your house. There are a million things people can do to cut down their emissions that can be as effective as becoming herbivores, depending on each one’s personal situation.

Plus, I don’t have the numbers in my head but I’m pretty sure a locally grown fillet of chicken is more environmentally friendly than an avocado that has travelled across the Atlantic, so “buy local” would be probably better advice.

Teppichbrand , (edited )

Yeah, so many things one should do. Yet nothing is as simple as paying for a different product next time you’re shopping your groceries.
Avocados are way less harmfull to our planet than local meat. People keep bringing this up so often it’s on the Vegan Bullshit Bingo.

commie ,

The comment points out the single most effektive move an individal without political nor financial power can make to cut personal co2-emissions with just a change of habit.

eating meat doesn’t emit co2

Teppichbrand ,

Yes it does, Commie. Fuck, am I debating 12 year old smartasses again?!

commie ,

those are emissions from production.

danc4498 ,

Producing that meat does.

Note that the commenter didn’t say to quit all eating meat. They just said to quit eating “factory farmed” meat.

It’s not about eating meat, it’s about factory farming the meat and the damage to the environment caused by it.

commie ,

… right. but your personal consumption doesn’t change industrial output.

danc4498 , (edited )

If you are spending money on factory farmed meat, you are financing the industry.

commie ,

If you are spending money on factory farmed meat, you are financing the industry.

regardless of what i (or you) spend my (or your) money on, the industry continues to grow. if i get hit by a bus today on my way home from work and die, the meat industry, i guarantee you, will not notice. they will continue to grow, producing more meat this year than last, and more next year than this.

danc4498 ,

That is the cynical reason for not doing anything ever to help the world.

Why should I vote? I’m one person and that will never make a difference.

Why should I recycle? I’m just one person and that will never make a difference.

Why should I donate to charity? I’m just one person and that will never make a difference.

Anything that you could do individually to help the world will make zero noticeable impact so long as you are the only one doing it. But collectively, the more people doing it the more of an impact it will have.

And how do we get a larger community of people to start something like this? Oh, I don’t know, maybe send your idea out on a forum of like minded people (such as people expressing concern about the environment) and hope to inspire others that actually care to make a change in their own habits.

commie ,

That is the cynical reason for not doing anything ever to help the world.

it’s a very good reason not to do things that aren’t effective.

danc4498 ,

From the cynical perspective, that makes 100% sense. Not everybody is so cynical, though.

commie ,

if you were proposing an effective solution i’d be all for it. we’ve had vegans since the 1940s, and it has not stopped the growth of agriculture industries. they have become more efficient, but i’m not sure that’s either good or attributable to vegans.

commie ,

Why should I vote? I’m one person and that will never make a difference.

voting is disanalogous to buying food. big meat doesn’t win or lose one day every four years.

commie ,

Why should I recycle? I’m just one person and that will never make a difference.

well that’s probably true. the real issue is the wasteful packaging produced, and no matter how much you recycle, that’s never going to curb the amount of wasteful packaging produced.

commie ,

Why should I donate to charity? I’m just one person and that will never make a difference.

often, charities are able to show exactly how much money it takes to accomplish their goals. $0.11/day to feed a child is one that’s stuck with me. but regardless, i think charity is a societal ill and we should be building societies that are not so stratified, so that charities are superfluous. instead of donating to charity, spend your resources building a more egalitarian society.

commie ,

Anything that you could do individually to help the world will make zero noticeable impact so long as you are the only one doing it.

that’s not true.

commie ,

collectively, the more people doing it the more of an impact it will have.

well, duh. but there are still effective things you can do to help the environment. buying beans isn’t one of them.

commie ,

And how do we get a larger community of people to start something like this? Oh, I don’t know, maybe send your idea out on a forum of like minded people (such as people expressing concern about the environment) and hope to inspire others that actually care to make a change in their own habits.

let me know how that works out for you.

treadful ,
@treadful@lemmy.zip avatar

You came in here with your absolutist utilitarian life above all else or we all die post just to respond with this because someone suggested you to stop eating meat. Beautiful.

AIhasUse ,

deleted_by_moderator

    •
    jerkface ,
    @jerkface@lemmy.ca avatar

    That’s not veganism, that’s environmentalism. Veganism is recognizing that animals have the right not to be treated as property and have atrocities visited upon them. That the experiences of animals are real and matter. That their suffering is identical in nature to your own.

    Avoiding animal products for the good of the environment has nothing to do with veganism. At least understand what your childish knee-jerk reactions are actually reacting to.

    commie ,

    It helps,

    no, it doesnt. despite the existence of vegans, meat production increases every year, year over year.

    Teppichbrand ,

    No it doesn’t, Commie

    commie ,

    you’re cherrypicking.

    ourworldindata.org/…/meat-production-tonnes?tab=c…

    Teppichbrand ,

    What is your point?

    commie ,

    my point is that buying meat (or not) has no impact on the environment.

    Teppichbrand , (edited )

    I don’t know why I keep arguing with a troll, but maybe someone else will read this:

    “I alone can’t change anything” is a premature excuse to shift responsibility to others. But you are responsible for your life and your actions. Be a good role model because you can.
    Our survival as a species is at stake in the medium term, our coexistence and our democracy are threatened. There is no CO2 budget left, we need to globally stop emissions immediately. Every ton counts, every decimal point, because at 2.6 degrees humanity does not cease to exist, it just suffers even more than at 2.59 degrees.
    There are big destroyers, we all know them by now. At the same time, even if these corporations disappeared immediately, we would still exceed the 1.5 degree target just through our reckless diet. Why do you push this responsibility away?
    We need to change on all levels and as you most likely won’t blow up a pipeline, you can start with your diet right now: Next time you’re shopping for groceries, save 2/3 of the land area, water consumption and CO2 emissions by buying a different product. Instead, you argue because you simply want to keep eating cheese sandwiches. Sounds so cynical and pathetic to me.

    commie ,

    I don’t know why I keep arguing with a troll,

    calling me names doesn’t change whether what i’m saying is true.

    commie ,

    “I alone can’t change anything”

    i never said that. i said that buying beans doesn’t change anything.

    commie ,

    water and land aren’t going anywhere. and all of agriculture is only about 20% of our emissions, and since we need to eat, we should be looking at other methods of saving the environment.

    AIhasUse ,

    And there’s crime so you might as well rape. What a pathetic cop out. You’re lucky there are so many people taking care of you.

    commie ,

    And there’s crime so you might as well rape

    the claim is that by not consuming factory farmed meat, you make an impact on the amount of emissions from its production. this is not true. it is also not analogous to raping anyone.

    AIhasUse ,

    You honestly think that factory farm emissions font change if people don’t give them money for their product? If your head was any further down in the sand, the magma would melt it.

    Analogies don’t indicate a similar level of morality. They are used to explain points to people who, for some reason, are unwilling or unable to otherwise understand.

    commie ,

    You honestly think that factory farm emissions font change if people don’t give them money for their product?

    have you tried that?

    AIhasUse ,

    Yes, I have. The millions of us who choose not to help those assholes causes them to make less e missions. Unfortunately there are still people like you who live without caring about anyone but their own immediate gratification.

    commie ,

    causes them to make less e missions.

    that has never happened

    AIhasUse ,

    deleted_by_moderator

    •
    commie ,

    you think that factory farms that sell 1 ton of meat make the exact same emission as factory farms that sell 1,000 tons of meat

    no one said that. what i said is that emissions from agriculture have always risen, so it can’t be that anything you’ve done has decreased them.

    AIhasUse ,

    If you don’t give bezos money every month, then he has less money than if you did give him money every month. This doesn’t mean that you not giving him money makes him poorer, but he has less money than he would have if you had given him money. This isn’t tough to understand, I know I grasp it.

    commie ,

    If you don’t give bezos money every month, then he has less money than if you did give him money every month

    in one hypothetical versus another, sure. but in the real worlds, we can’t prove a counterfactual. you can’t prove whether, if I had given him money, if he’d have ended up poorer anyway.

    AIhasUse ,

    Yes, I have. The millions of us who choose not to help those assholes cause them to make less emissions. Unfortunately, there are still people like you who live without caring about anyone but their own immediate gratification.

    commie ,

    If your head was any further down in the sand, the magma would melt it.

    this is a thought terminating cliche

    commie ,

    Analogies don’t indicate a similar level of morality.

    i didnt suggest they did. i’m saying that buying food is disanalagous to rape.

    edit

    to be clear, rape is wrong. buying food is not. you don’t not-rape in order to reduce rape. you don’t-rape because rape is wrong. by contrast, the goal of not-buying meat is to reduce the environmental impact of the meat industry. if that doesn’t work, then not-buying meat is not a moral duty (at least, not for that reason. it’s possible there is some other reason, but that’s not the topic being discussed).

    AIhasUse ,

    What if you buy food from someone you know murdered children to get it? It’s so obviously wrong that buying food is never an immoral act. If you are interested in having philosophical conversations, then you really need to go back to the basics. At this point, you’re trying to join an archery competition with a nurf toy. There are undeniably immoral ways to get food. Destroying the planet and torturing animals for slightly cheaper food that you do not absolutely need to survive is absolutely immoral. The reason it is so hard for you to see this is because you are an addict making excuses. Not because you are starving and need the cheapest, most despicable food.

    commie ,

    It’s so obviously wrong that buying food is never an immoral act.

    I allowed that there may be some reason buying some food might be immoral.

    AIhasUse ,

    That’s progress! You’re on a good track. Not sure if you’re the same one I sent this link to or not, but if you want to see the living conditions of the animals in the meat system are, here you go. You can judge the morality of it on your own.

    youtu.be/LQRAfJyEsko

    commie ,

    you should give it trigger warning before your link gore

    commie ,

    this YouTube video sucks

    commie ,

    no one is torturing animals

    AIhasUse ,

    Guess again. Almost certainly, you are contributing a significant portion of your energy and money to billionaires who torture animals in ways that you would be unable to even watch.

    youtu.be/LQRAfJyEsko

    I’ve been wrong plenty before, but I would be astonished if you are capable of even viewing the atrocities that you commit. That’s how disgusting the things people hire billionaires to do in the name of cheap meat it.

    commie ,

    you should give it trigger warning before you link gore

    AIhasUse ,

    This is what most people are paying to have happen every day.

    commie ,

    no, they’re not. this YouTube video does not show standard practices even in mid 2010s in Australia where it was filmed

    AIhasUse ,

    Try and find out the standard practices of the factory farm where the meat from your local area comes from. They don’t make it easy to find out, and if you do find out, it is currently much worse than what was happening 15 years ago. There is a good reason for this, too. In most regards, the rule is that they can’t be too much worse than the average behavior. This is causing a horrific drift to worse and worse practices.

    There is almost no push back on this because the average person is so reluctant to admit that they may be supporting something so vile that they stand behind whatever it is these farms do without having any actual idea of what’s going on. Nobody is checking in on these places and coming out saying alls good other than the people making a ton of money off them.

    If you don’t know for sure that you get animal products from good places, then it is almost guaranteed that you don’t. If you don’t care to even find out, then you are the normal consumer, and you have accepted that your pleasure matters more than the treatment of the animals in them. You are not the minority. You are the merciless masses with no morality in this regard.

    commie ,

    you have accepted that your pleasure matters more than the treatment of the animals in them.

    I don’t believe this, but it’s clear you do. yet you don’t seem to want to accept it. I offer a solution: mind your own business.

    AIhasUse ,

    Never. The future of the planet and the well-being of those less fortunate will always matter more to me than the sensitive feelings of the selfish and willfully ignorant.

    commie ,

    You are the merciless masses with no morality in this regard.

    you have no idea what my morality is

    AIhasUse ,

    You are right, but I can make a very educated guess based on the deprivety that you insist on trying to defend. If you have been pretending this whole time and you actually have concern for the planet and for the well-being of others, then great. It’s a strange thing to troll about, but that would be much better than if you actually hold the opinions you are pretending to.

    commie ,

    I haven’t defended any depravity. I’m demanding evidence for the efficacy of you plan to address environmental concerns.

    AIhasUse ,

    I did, you said it was bad, and then praised yourself. This is exactly what happens when you point out to a crackhead that they are down to 4 teeth, they just say “whatever bro, not related, you so dumb” and then go on thinking they’re so clever for always outsmarting everyone with their lightning fast logic skills.

    commie ,

    your evidence did not support your claim. your continued personal attacks are inappropriate

    AIhasUse ,

    You being unable to look at the evidence because it is too disturbing doesn’t invalidate the evidence. It has become clear that there are lots of fundamentals of debate and reasoning that you are lacking. If this is really something that interests you, then it would be best for you to familiarize yourself with some basics of formal logic and reasoning completely outside of this subject matter, and after that come back and revist this with a more open mind and more equipped to consider the implications of your actions.

    commie ,

    your evidence does not support your claim that buying beans helps the environment no matter how much gore you pack into it.

    AIhasUse ,

    There is no need to be intellectually dishonest about the point of view of the person you are arguing with. This is what is called a “strawman” argument. If you look back through the thread, you will find that I never even discussed bean purchasing. It is very telling that in order to feel like you have “won” the argument, you must make up things to “be” my point of view. What this means is that the argument that you see yourself as winning is actually against yourself! If you actually had a strong argument, then you wouldn’t have to create the thing that it is able to beat. It would actually be able to beat the argument of someone else.

    commie ,

    we are so far removed from any actual argument that my characterization can’t be considered a strawman so much as “The way most people are able to interact online”.

    but i’m happy to state this formally enough that i’d pass a student in my logic class:

    the claim is that abstaining from factory farmed meat has a benefit for the environment. the supposed mechanism is that by refusing to buy a product, the producers will prorduce less, and therefore have lower emissions.we have evidence people abstain. we have evidence that the production increases. there is no evidence that abstaining from buying meat has ever reduced emissions.

    AIhasUse ,

    With you helping, x is increasing by 101 every day, without you, it is increasing by 100. This is the crux of what you are misunderstanding. The difference you make does not pull it from the negative to the positive.

    commie ,

    how can we test your theory? can you point on this graph to when you stopped eating factory farmed meat?

    ourworldindata.org/…/global-meat-production?facet…

    AIhasUse ,

    It still isn’t quite clicking for you. An individual person starting or stopping to give money to an entire industry does not change the industry from being profitable or not. I never said it did. It is you who has consistently claimed that it should, despite a lack of evidence. It is a very solipsistic view to think that one person’s purchases change an entire industry from being profitable or not. I don’t really know how to get you to internalize the logic behind this, you really just need to try hard to work it out for yourself if this is really the point that you are struggling with.

    commie ,

    It is a very solipsistic view to think that one person’s purchases change an entire industry from being profitable or not.

    do you know how i know that you don’t know what solipsism is?

    AIhasUse ,

    You were repeatedly wrongly making the claim that an individual’s decision to quit giving money to the factory farming industry should be what changes them from profitable to not. It does seem like you have realized the absurdity of this and are now backing off, but this doesn’t change your prior claims. It is nice to see you changing your mind about this.

    commie ,

    You were repeatedly wrongly making the claim that an individual’s decision to quit giving money to the factory farming industry should be what changes them from profitable to not. I

    i never said that.

    commie ,

    An individual person starting or stopping to give money to an entire industry does not change the industry from being profitable or not.

    talk about a straw man.

    AIhasUse ,

    No, this is precisely the claim you made. Go ahead and go back and read it.

    commie ,

    the only claim i’ve made is that your claim can’t be evidenced.

    AIhasUse ,

    It is very understandable why you would now try to back down off of your claim that a single person should be able to change an entire industry from being profitable or not. It is fine to admit you were wrong though, it does you no favors to try to act like that was never your stance. The comments are all still there.

    commie ,

    that isn’t the claim i made. in fact, its remarkably similar to the one you are making.

    AIhasUse ,

    And yet here you are claiming that if people abstaining don’t result in their profit going down, then abstaining does nothing.

    we have evidence people abstain. we have evidence that the production increases. there is no evidence that abstaining from buying meat has ever reduced emissions.

    It is obvious that you really don’t want to be responsible for your actions. That is the heart of this issue. No amount of going back and forth with me will do that for you. It is you who needs to look at what you do. If you think funding other people to do terrible things that hurt the environment doesn’t actually make you responsible for those horrible things, then no amount of explanation will change this for you. Even if you get me to say “you are right, you can pay anyone to do any terrible thing that brings you pleasure, and you have no moral responsibility for this”, it still won’t make it true. This isn’t hard to see. It just takes you to be willing to analyze it honestly.

    commie ,

    And yet here you are claiming that if people abstaining don’t result in their profit going down, then abstaining does nothing.

    i’m not discussing profit at all. i’m talking about emissions.

    commie ,

    you are right, you can pay anyone to do any terrible thing that brings you pleasure, and you have no moral responsibility for this”

    another strawman

    AIhasUse ,

    It’s I possible to have a conversation with someone who constantly pretends like they didn’t say what they did. I’ve given you all the information you need to take your next steps, now it’s on you.

    commie ,

    It’s I possible to have a conversation with someone who constantly pretends like they didn’t say what they did.

    real pot and kettle situation you’ve made here

    AIhasUse ,

    Someone who advocates for taking care of the planet, and treating others compationately disagrees with you. You try to defend massive corporations that are well known for destroying the planet and abusing animals in ways so horrific that simply being shown what they are doing took you to a place not far from suicidal ideas. If that is really what you think you should be defending deep down, there is nothing I can tell you to change your mind. Just consider if you would rather be on the side defending compassion or on the side fighting against it.

    commie ,

    You try to defend massive corporations

    i never did that.

    AIhasUse ,

    I know it’s embarrassing, but you can go back and read what you’ve written. No stretch of the imagination puts you on any side other than trying to excuse your funding those monsters.

    commie ,

    anyone can read whats been said and see that i’ve not defended any corporations

    AIhasUse ,

    Factory farms are exclusively run by corporations. I highly doubt this is news to you.

    commie ,

    and i havent defended factory farms

    commie ,

    this is all posturing and rhetoric. you have not shown that being vegan reduces industry emissions.

    AIhasUse ,

    The emissions happen because people financially support them. It isn’t hard to grasp. You just don’t want to feel responsible. I know I’m not responsible for it, and I don’t have to try to pretend that my money doesn’t help continue what they do. You have to pretend or admit guilt, and at this point you can’t bring yourself to admit to what you are doing.

    commie ,

    more posturing and rhetoric. no evidence that your purchases have ever helped the environment at all.

    AIhasUse ,

    Not at all a hard search:

    reuters.com/…/countries-urged-curb-factory-farmin….

    The issue isn’t a lack of evidence. The issue is your denial of anything that questions your behavior. The problem you are facing is looking at yourself, not at being unable to use a search engine.

    commie ,

    so when did agriculture emissions drop?

    AIhasUse ,

    You already have been presented the explanation of this. It is up to you to understand it.

    commie ,

    to be clear, your method has been tried and it has failed.

    AIhasUse ,

    By the way, once again, you made up this vegan thing. Go look for me saying anyone should be vegan. You’ve created a fictional world, and even a fictional person to argue against because you have no leg to stand on in the real world arguing against a real person.

    commie ,

    you’re splitting hairs. it seems impossible for you to be intellectually honest

    AIhasUse ,

    I absolutely get that you don’t want to be thinking these things next time you are trying to enjoy your cheap cheeseburger and ice cream, or whatever else your personal guilty pleasure is. I am well aware that I have, at least temporarily, greatly tarnished your ability to selfishly enjoy these things. I hope this conversation will help you, or anyone reading this, be a bit more loving. You have not at all succeeded in convincing me that I should be more selfish, more hateful, or less compassionate. I highly doubt that your best version of yourself would really want what you are so sadly trying to desperately defend.

    commie ,

    I am well aware that I have, at least temporarily, greatly tarnished your ability to selfishly enjoy these things

    look, normally i think that it’s shitty to dig through a user’s history and drag it into the current discussion, but i do encourage you to sort my comments by old.

    i have been objecting to your feckless method of protecting teh environment for years. this account alone is almost solely focused on pushing people to find effective methods.

    you literally have no idea who you are talking to or what you are talking about.

    AIhasUse ,

    It is incredibly ironic that you see yourself as a moral force for good while vehemently defending some of the most atrocious practices in the world today. I hope you are able to cast aside your addiction so you can see clearly enough to actually do some good. It is clear that you find your behavior deplorable, it is just that you can’t fathom giving up on your precious factory farms.

    commie ,

    vehemently defending some of the most atrocious practices

    i never did that.

    AIhasUse ,

    I’m against factory farms. You are for factory farms. It would be incredible if you now try to switch this as well. It would be such progress if you now start trying to attack factory farms for their vile practices.

    commie ,

    You are for factory farms.

    no, i’m not

    AIhasUse ,

    This is great progress, not long ago you were.

    commie ,

    no i wasn’t and you wont be able to find me saying i was.

    commie ,

    It would be such progress if you now start trying to attack factory farms for their vile practices.

    this is a red herring. it has nothing to do with whether buying celery will reduce agricultural emissions.

    commie ,

    I hope you are able to cast aside your addiction

    back to practicing without a license again?

    commie ,

    more posturing and rhetoric, but no evidence that abstaining from factory farmed meat has ever reduced emissions.

    AIhasUse ,

    It’s incredibly easy to search, I have provided an article, but there are many many more that you can easily find. It’s been known for a long time. And isn’t disagreed on.

    commie ,

    It’s incredibly easy to search,

    this is not evidence

    I have provided an article, but there are many many more that you can easily find.

    this is not evidence

    It’s been known for a long time.

    this is not evidence

    And isn’t disagreed on.

    this is not evidence

    AIhasUse ,

    Well, I think we should be thankful for the progress you made. It’s so nice to see you now talking against factory farms. Hopefully, you are stro g enough to put your money where your mouth is. Talk only does so much, it’s who you support with your energy that really matters.

    commie ,

    more posturing and rhetoric, but no evidence.

    commie ,

    You have not at all succeeded in convincing me that I should be more selfish, more hateful, or less compassionate.

    i have not tried to do that

    commie ,

    this is just a series of personal attacks and self-aggrandizing statements.

    AIhasUse ,

    The reason they feel like personal attacks is because your ego is so twisted around your emotional dependence on a deplorable addiction. If you were able to separate your ideas from yourself, then me questioning your ideas wouldn’t be so deeply offensive to you. The trouble is that you can’t fathom a life without paying people to destroy the environment and treat animals horribly. This is because you think living without cheap animal products simply isn’t an option. I assure you it is, and after your withdrawal, you will actually feel better. It may not take nearly as long or be nearly as unbearable as you are fearing. Really, truly. Most people who have put their morals above their pleasure have gone through this very thing, and I’m confident you can as well.

    commie ,

    they don’t feel like personal attacks. tehy are. you’re not presenting any evidence to support your position, you are making attacks against me a s a person.

    commie ,

    If you were able to separate your ideas from yourself, then me questioning your ideas wouldn’t be so deeply offensive to you.

    this isn’t about questioning my ideas. it’s about developing evidence to support your position. you still haven’t don that.

    AIhasUse ,

    I have. You just are blind to anything that challenges your behavior. Luckily, you have managed to reverse your stance somewhat on factory farms. That’s a great win. I hope it sticks with you.

    commie ,

    more posturing and rhetoric and personal attacks. no evidence.

    commie ,

    most of this comment is posturing, rhetoric, and personal attacks.

    commie ,

    This is because you think living without cheap animal products simply isn’t an option.

    i never said this, i said that your decision to do so doesn’t change the emissions from the industry.

    commie ,

    this YouTube video sucks

    AIhasUse ,

    Yeah. It does suck to see what the average person chooses to spend their life paying people to do to animals. It especially sucks if you are one of the people paying them to do it.

    commie ,

    no. I meant that video is long and poorly made. it sucks.

    commie ,

    I would be astonished if you are capable of even viewing the atrocities that you commit.

    i am not in your youtube video at all. don’t lie.

    AIhasUse ,

    You hire these people because you are too ashamed or disgusted to do it yourself, that’s why you can’t ven view what you pay people to do.

    commie ,

    I didn’t hire any of those people

    commie ,

    why is the bar “absolute need for survival”?

    AIhasUse ,

    Because if not, then you are putting your own mere 20 minutes of pleasure higher than entire lives of tight, confined, indoor, away from their children and parents, raped, drugged, mutilated while alive of animals. There is no chance that if an animal was living like this on your property such that you had to see it daily, you wouldn’t save it. As it is, nearly everyone happily hires billionaires to do it for them. Most of the time they hide behind “but I neeeeeed foooood!!!”. I’ve not given those scumbags a penny in many years, and I’m alive, I’m not rich, and I am absolutely well nourished. I’ve recently done multiple marathons.

    commie ,

    I thought we were discussing economic impacts. this seems to be an entirely different r discussion.

    AIhasUse ,

    The factory farming industry has very significant ecological impacts. In addition to the extreme suffering and misery that it causes to sentient beings. It’s really a lose-lose.

    commie ,

    it seems like muddying the waters. why is it so hard to focus on the effectiveness of consumer action in reducing ecological impacts? that is the topic

    AIhasUse ,

    I see the people consuming the meat and animal products as consumers. I see the impact they have on the planet as ecological impact. I don’t see how this is off topic.

    commie ,

    ou are putting your own mere 20 minutes of pleasure higher than entire lives

    the animal is dead long before i decide what to eat. my decision is not a value judgement on their lives.

    AIhasUse ,

    The fact that you habitually pay people to do that animals is what causes them to do this to future animals. You understand this. It tells something that your best defense is this to excuse your actions.

    commie ,

    people have free will, and so their choices cannot be said to be caused by anything other than their will. I am not responsible for what people in the meat industry do.

    AIhasUse ,

    If someone pays someone else $1,000,000 to kill their ex-girlfriend, is only the murderer morally responsible?

    commie ,

    No analogous relationship between the purchaser and the slaughterhouse worker exists.

    AIhasUse ,

    Paying someone to do immoral actions that harm innocent animals and the environment that we all are forced to share. That is the connection.

    commie ,

    no one does that

    AIhasUse ,

    If you decide to educate yourself, then you will be surprised. There is endless video proof from over the course of many years. The only thing missing is your willingness to look.

    commie ,

    saying it doesn’t make it so

    AIhasUse ,

    This is true. You seem to make your most accurate sentences when you keep them short.

    commie ,

    early everyone happily hires billionaires to do it for them.

    no one hires billionaires.

    AIhasUse ,

    You pay someone to do something for you. Whether this is hiring or paying someone for a service is just semantics. There is an obvious reason why this sort of petty rebuttal is all you are able to use as a response.

    commie ,

    this is all posturing and rhetoric. there is nothing of substance to rebutt here.

    commie ,

    you accusation of addiction is a personal attack. it has no bearing on the truth of any of the claims I’ve made.

    AIhasUse ,

    It absolutely does. You would be able to see it if the addiction in question was cheap animal products. Your brain is clouded by the fact that since food is required to live, then no food can be an addiction. You’re simply wrong. You and many people can be addicted to cheap, unhealthy food that harms the planet. As a result of it, you excise your own deplorable behavior.

    commie ,

    Your brain is clouded

    are you a psychologist? are you my psychologist? frankly, you are acting irresponsibly and you should consider staying in your own expertise.

    AIhasUse ,

    It doesn’t take any specialty to see this. That’s how obvious it is. When someone is deluding themselves to this extent, it is easy to see from the outside. Spend some time with someone who is addicted to things that you are not, and you will see.

    commie ,

    you should stop practicing medicine before your local board finds you.

    commie ,

    You’re simply wrong.

    saying it doesn’t make it true.

    AIhasUse ,

    You are right about that. What makes you wrong is what you said, not what I said.

    commie ,

    saying I’m wrong doesn’t make it so. I have been right this whole time

    AIhasUse ,

    Oh, you said you’re right, I guess that proves it then, well played.

    commie ,

    I’ve presented exactly as much evidence as you, to wit.

    AIhasUse ,

    It’s easy to go back and read this. You left the topic without responding. You made some joke about psychiatry because you couldn’t come up with anything that made sense as a rebuttal to what I said. I’m not surprised, this is par for the course when people want to try to “win” an argument without actually having anything they feel makes sense. It’s fine, you do you, I’ve said my piece and you couldn’t say yours because you haven’t found it yet.

    I’ve got my earworm in you, and maybe eventually, as you get older, you will occasionally consider it. If not you, then maybe someone who reads this. If anyone out there decides to be a bit more thoughtful in the way they live, then great. I also have been helped because I put myself in a position where maybe I would hear something intelligent that improved my stance. You failed to deliver, but that’s out of my hands, I didn’t expect much more out of you in this case since people like you always fail in this regard. Doesn’t stop me from trying, though. Maybe eventually someone in your camp will finally do something impressive.

    commie ,

    I haven’t made any jokes

    AIhasUse ,

    Your comment history is still there.

    commie ,

    yea, and my concern about your expertise is not a joke.

    AIhasUse ,

    If that was a serious comment and you are genuinely concerned about people being able to make comments without degrees and certificates, then I think you really may need to be seeking the expertise of an expert. The way most people are able to interact online is much more open and free. I understand that if you have had extreme trauma or have large underlying problems, then this sort of interaction may be unhealthy for you. Unfortunately, it is up to you to take the steps to put yourself into a safer environment. If not, then things may get worse for you before they get better. I hope you are able to find the help you need if that is really the case.

    commie ,

    I didn’t ask for excuses. I said you should stop.

    AIhasUse ,

    I offered no excuses. I’m not sure what your issue is, but on top of being unfamiliar with basic reasoning skills, there are also some definitional misunderstandings. If English is your second language, then I suggest you find a better translation app to help you interact with people online. If not, then maybe a standard dictionary and some willingness to learn is all you need. Standard definitions of terms is paramount to a constructive conversation.

    commie ,

    more excuses and blaming others. take responsibility, and stop practicing before you kill someone.

    AIhasUse ,

    I didn’t realise that this was such a traumatic topic for you. I’m sorry if I triggered some intense feelings of guilt. In case you really are contemplating suicide due to having your behavior pointed out, you can call 988 if you are in the US.

    I wish you all the best, but I don’t feel comfortable continuing this conversation with you. I really am sorry, I didn’t realise you were affected so strongly by this. Please call thay number if you are feeling badly. All the best!

    commie ,

    I’m sorry if I triggered some intense feelings of guilt.

    no, you said explicitly that you want people to feel guilty. don’t lie.

    AIhasUse ,

    I was referring to the average person, not people with extreme mental issues and suicidal tendencies. I want people who are of a sound mind and able to understand their actions to be aware of what they are doing and feel the appropriate way. I don’t want you to act rashly on any suicidal thoughts that you may be having. I want you to be ok and to get the help you need.

    commie ,

    you have no idea who you are interacting with but you drop untagged gore right in your comments and accuse people who push back on your unevidenced position and irresponsible rhetoric of being addicts.

    you are acting dangerously and you need to re-evaluate your entire approach.

    AIhasUse ,

    I understand that the reality of your actions disturbs you greatly. Like I said, if you need professional help, then please seek it.

    commie ,

    back to the personal attacks.

    AIhasUse ,

    There were no personal attacks in my comment.

    commie ,

    you weren’t addressing the subject, you were attacking the individual. that’s a personal attack.

    Cosmicomical ,

    This isn’t pushing any boundaries, though. This is off the shelf technology. Anybody can do something big by throwing a shit ton of money at it. It would be pushing boundaries of tech or art if it was for instance super power efficient, or mind bending in any way. This is a fucking sphere, it’s the simplest shape and a rip off of the pyramids but less original and not even comparable in terms of durability.

    dependencyinjection ,

    Could it not be argued that building this thing now gives people a chance at looking at the power draw and attempting to make it super efficient? Like now people have a tool to test things on.

    danc4498 ,

    They did mention that they are working on making 70% of this powered by solar panels. Maybe this will push forward solar technology in some way.

    ShepherdPie ,

    It is absolutely pushing boundaries to be driving this many pixels at a frame rate that doesn’t take minutes to refresh. I build a lot of projects with addressable LEDs and the typical hobbyist stuff chokes out when you start trying to control more than a thousand or so. This thing has 256 million pixels inside and 1.2 million outside.

    JJROKCZ ,

    Sure but we’re burning tons of coal to have this thing advertise minion movies, not anything artistic or worthwhile.

    Shardikprime ,

    Worthwhile for who

    KairuByte ,
    @KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    Advertising? This thing is essentially a theater. Yeah, it can run advertisement but anything with a screen can do that. It’s like saying a movie theatre is for advertising.

    zalgotext ,

    It’s a 400 foot tall screen that’s constantly on and in view, even at night, which plays ads like 90% of the time. Calling it “essentially a theatre” is a huge understatement.

    1984 ,
    @1984@lemmy.today avatar

    Horrible and should be illegal.

    Vash63 ,

    But the energy usage is quoted as peak for the entire venue - which is literally a theater / concert hall. It opened with a live U2 performance. The energy usage isn’t just for the displays, it includes all the power for the entire building, the concert speakers, heating/cooling, indoor lighting, any kitchen equipment, etc.

    PunnyName , (edited )

    Currently, an agreement is under review to ensure that 70% of the Sphere’s power needs will come from solar sources, with the other 30% from non-renewable energy that will be offset by renewable energy credits.

    Ahh yes, energy credits. AKA bullshit.

    brbposting , (edited )

    Hey!

    They’re not always BS. Just most of the time!

    Or are they? Some of the companies who are the best at it and seem to be genuinely trying have been shown not to be able to guarantee one way or the other.

    “Wait, someone cut down that forest we planted?!” (no joke)

    Edit: see REC clarification below (thanks!)

    PunnyName ,

    At least I understand forests that are replanted over and over to be used for lumber, effectively reducing the use of old lumber for myriad products.

    RvTV95XBeo ,

    Just to be clear, renewable energy credits are different than carbon offsets, and easier to guarantee because they’re often tied directly to a metered renewable energy source.

    That said, there are still junk RECs on the market, like those tied to energy that was produced up to 2 decades ago that nobody got around to claiming / retiring. Or RECs tied to energy sources that may have happened regardless of the REC sale.

    brbposting ,

    Ohhh good point! Wanted to edit that into my comment there even, thank you.

    The junk RE credits are really interesting. As is the “ha we were building that solar farm no matter what!” problem - reminds me of when that happens in… tax deductions I think.

    nikita ,

    Energy credits — what a bunch of vacuous rhetoric.

    The reality is that it’s energy being taken away from the overall grid, requiring a larger grid and thus prolonging our dependence on non renewable energy while we build up renewable sources.

    If we weren’t so wasteful with our energy we wouldn’t need as much of it and it’d be easier to go fully renewable.

    Cosmicomical ,

    Well this is not good math at all. If you create a project and offset all its power requirements, you haven’t added anything to the grid. The alternative is to not do stuff, which is not going to happen anytime soon*, so it’s a net good thing and needs to be incentivized, not disparaged.

    *Well it will happen after the water wars and plagues wipe us out, and the sphere will stop drawing any energy at that point.

    holgersson ,

    We shouldnt call them energy credits, but rather indulgences.

    Windex007 ,

    Somewhere in an ancient crypt, the bones of Luther begin to twitch to life…

    WhatAmLemmy ,

    We should call them FRAUD

    CaliforniaSober ,

    Consider ”hate credits”… like imagine the KKK can do whatever it wants so long as they claim to offset it with “hate credits”…

    danc4498 ,

    Currently, an agreement is under review to ensure that 70% of the Sphere’s power needs will come from solar sources, with the other 30% from non-renewable energy that will be offset by renewable energy credits.

    Nevada has pledged to achieve net zero emissions of greenhouse gases by 2050, and the solar project under construction to help offset its energy debt is estimated to complete in 2027.

    How stupid is it that somebody can claim “Net Zero” greenhouse gas emissions when 30% of their power is greenhouse gas.

    Just gonna throw this out there. Fuck credits, charge a carbon tax.

    capital ,

    We’ll also ignore the fact that that solar could have been used to offset actual needs instead of this BS.

    frezik ,

    If only Las Vegas were located somewhere that the sun shines almost all day every day. \s

    capital ,

    And yet they still couldn’t cover the last 30%.

    __Lost__ ,

    That’s probably at night

    capital ,

    Regardless, that energy could be going to offset other energy currently being produced by non-renewables no matter which way you slice it.

    Morphit ,
    @Morphit@feddit.uk avatar

    So build concentrated solar power and store the heat for after the sun sets. Bonus - thermal power plant turbines give inertia to the grid, which photo-voltaics don’t.

    CommanderCloon ,

    I highly doubt the operating hours of this ball of decadence match the time when solar power peaks

    Usernameblankface ,
    @Usernameblankface@lemmy.world avatar

    If only the creators of the ball had enough profit coming in to put up more solar panels and build up a battery bank for the night so they wouldn’t take anything from the grid…

    duffman ,

    Vegas exists because of the BS.

    ILikeBoobies ,

    The word net does a lot of heavy lifting and it’s just a scam

    You can use 100% coal power and claim net zero by buying a forest

    sugar_in_your_tea ,

    Exactly. Carbon credits for the win! I love me some Pigouvian taxes. :)

    w2tpmf ,

    Well you don’t understand what “net” means.

    It doesn’t mean literally zero. It means colunm A and column B average out to zero.

    To acheive a real net zero, they have to save energy somewhere else that takes that column past 100% (Such as if their solar panels produce more energy than they use during certain times.)

    They probably just make some shit up to say their are saving extra somewhere they aren’t (so to that point, yes…credits are bullshit.)

    Sorgan71 ,

    They never claimed net zero. They plan to achieve net zero by 2050

    danc4498 ,

    Yeah, that’s in the quote. I’m more complaining about the concept of “net zero”.

    Usernameblankface ,
    @Usernameblankface@lemmy.world avatar

    Maybe, I mean just maybe, they can run this thing only as long as the solar generated power lasts, and then turn it off 30% of the time.

    danc4498 ,

    Run it at 70% percent brightness.

    Usernameblankface ,
    @Usernameblankface@lemmy.world avatar

    Oooh, this is a good idea

    NecroSocial ,

    Fuck credits, charge a carbon tax.

    IMO it seems RECs are a better solution than carbon taxes at least in situations like this. With RECs you’re buying renewable energy to offset non-renewables, with a carbon tax the company is just giving the government money for use of non-renewables. Only funds spent on RECs in this case actually go to supporting the renewable energy sector. I’m no expert in this stuff so I could be off, just how I understand it.

    ShittyBeatlesFCPres ,

    Las Vegas in general is a testament to the hubris of humanity and an admittedly impressive technical feat. Does it even exist without the Hoover Dam?

    batmaniam ,

    I don’t know about power, but Vegas is actually incredibly water efficient. Due to the way the water rights work with the Colorado river, they’re not allowed very much, but it doesn’t “count” if you put it back in. So nearly every drop they use is treated and put back (probably cleaner, tbh). Boggles the brain, but somehow it’s actually a fairly sustainable city. More than any other other major metro, in any event.

    DevopsPalmer ,

    Considering they are in a literal desert, they would have to be fairly sustainable to exist in the first place. Not saying it’s not super impressive, my dad lived out there when they were building up a lot of the expanded infrastructure and he has some cool stories about how he saw the desert on the outskirts disappear as they added in all the water and transportation stuff

    axo ,

    What do other cities do with their wastewater? Isnt that the norm?

    batmaniam ,

    Thrilled you asked! So yes: Treatment is always required, but the final destination of the treated water can vary. For instance, in a lot of places they may have municipal water TO a home or business, but that may be discharged to septic, as opposed to the river. Also in a lot of areas, water may be taken out of an underground aquifer (either by private well or a municipality) but when treated it may be discharged into a river or ocean. That can create problems because if you’re near the coast, the empty space in the aquifer may be filled by salt/brackish water that can lead to salinity rises in the aquifer. To solve that some places turn to “ground water recharge”, which is just a fancy way of saying “we built a big well to put it back in the aquifer”.

    Increasingly, you’re seeing some places essentially sell their treated water. Santa Rosa CA, for instance, built an entire pipeline that goes from their treatment facility to another municipality to be injected into their groundwater.

    So yes, everywhere treats it, but the final destination makes a difference. Las Vegas (or anyone else on the river) only gets credit for what goes back into the river, so any evaporation etc is a problem. It sounds trivial, but there is a reason those other strategies exist. It essentially doubles every pipe, limits where you can park a treatment plant etc. Vegas also does some great grey water re-use. That essentially means it doesn’t go “back” but can get used many many times, limiting the initial draw.

    Wastewater is funny because it’s far from rocket science, but the numbers to implement any of it get staggering very quickly.

    jaybone ,

    Where does Santa Rosa’s wastewater go to?

    captainlezbian ,

    Wastewater isn’t rocket science. It’s just harder and significantly more important. Every engineering discipline makes fun of the civils, but the fact is none of us are half as critical to modern life as them. Every benefit any of us claim rests on their backs. The flow of electricity is a civil engineering feat, the flow of water to and from our homes, businesses, and farms is a civil engineering feat (and critical to health), as is our transportation networks, our entire constructed environment, and even crazy and weird shit like controlling the location of critical rivers.

    batmaniam ,

    oh I’m not shortchanging it, I work in the field. It’s crazy how “simple” it is in concept and hard to deliver. But it’s on par with antibiotics with how many lives it’s changed. Like you said, it’s like a lot of civil stuff. A solid highway system, for instance. Just some dirt with fancy rocks on it right? Righhhhhhht?

    And don’t get me wrong, wastewater has tons of complications. Any plant is operated in equal parts science, engineering, and art. It’s a living, breathing, bioreactor. They’ve each got their own distinct personality.

    sugar_in_your_tea ,

    I actually thought about going into civil engineering in school, but I ended up really liking Computer Science instead. In high school, I was waffling between being a software patent attorney and a civil engineering attorney, but once I took some CS classes, I decided software patents suck and I really wanted to work with computers.

    I have a lot of respect for our civil engineers. My state is experimenting with a variety of civil engineering stuff, like paints for our highways (should help visibility in crappy winter conditions), alternative grass mixtures to cut water use (less engineering and more horticulture, but whatever), and expanding trains. I kind of wish I was involved with that, but I still really like my job, so I just follow that kind of stuff as a hobby. Bridges, trains, and tunnels rock.

    captainlezbian ,

    Yeah in retrospect I wish I’d gone civil. It wasn’t offered at my school but I went industrial because I loved both engineering and psychology. Civil would’ve meant I did more good and got less poisoned by my career

    prole ,

    It was also, literally, built by the mob

    InvaderDJ ,

    It’s funny, I think Vegas is perfectly fine as the city of sin so things like this really don’t phase me. It was built on the idea of crime and excess.

    What does seem weird to me is how in a desert, why isn’t everything solar? The sun is their only natural resource besides sand. Every rooftop and parking lot and flat surface possible seems like it should be a panel.

    aidan ,

    Vegas is surrounded by empty desert, they don’t need to use rooftops and parking lots

    fukurthumz420 ,

    even deserts host life. it’s kind of a ecological misnomer that we could just cover the deserts of the world in solar panels. that would have serious repercussions.

    JasonDJ ,

    Also, the ocean is a desert with its life underground and the perfect disguise up above.

    aidan ,

    What repercussions could covering a few acres more in the mojave with solar panels have?

    AutistoMephisto ,
    @AutistoMephisto@lemmy.world avatar

    Honestly if we could get space elevators figured out, the best place to put solar panels would be in the upper atmosphere. Tethered to the ground by massive columns that feed the energy they collect to massive capacitors on the ground?

    fatalError ,

    Solar only works during the day. During night you need batteries which are not renewable. Mining lithium trashes ecosystems and we probably have enough for like 50 more years at this rate, cobalt is extracted through slave labour. And we’ve seen how well recycling works for other materials which are less complex. So all these renewables aren’t all that green in every aspect. Unless we solve the energy storage problem it isn’t as simple as putting up more panels.

    n3m37h ,

    polarnightenergy.fi/sand-battery

    Gormadt ,
    @Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Sodium batteries (which are on the market now) are way more environmentally friendly than Lithium batteries.

    The materials are very accessible by comparison to Lithium batteries and they’re way more stable.

    frezik ,

    You know, I’m getting really sick of these comments where people think they know what they’re talking about and repeat a bunch of talking points about lithium.

    Lithium is not going to be the basis of a renewable grid. We need it for EVs because it’s the best Wh/kg that we have right now, but we don’t care so much about weight for grid storage. Cost/kg is the main measure we care about there (though there are some other considerations in specific conditions). We already have tech being deployed in the field that’s better than lithium for grid storage. Flow batteries, flywheels, pumped hydro, or just heating up sand or rocks. Others, like sodium batteries, are being manufactured and will probably find their way into real products in the next few years.

    fatalError ,

    Chill, no need to be stressed. Part of the ideas you mentioned are already implemented in some cases, but they are not without drawbacks. Pumped hydro is good, but has high maintainance costs, messes with the fish and requires large bodies of water, how do you get tbat in the desert? Flywheels have good inertia, great for stabilizing the grid, Ireland has some for that exact reason, but can’t store a whole lot. And heating up roxks and sand may work if you need heat at night, but you need electricity, so you need water to turn into steam to produce it. Sodium batteries look the most promising, we’ll see how they develop. But until we get these storqge facilities built, adding more solar would only destabilise the grids even more.

    linearchaos ,
    @linearchaos@lemmy.world avatar

    So if you knew this which is a reasonable post why do you post the propaganda piece before?

    fatalError ,

    What propaganda? I think you have to go back and read my post once more… The thread started from solar panels in the desert. At the moment the most widely used grid storage is pumped hydro, how will you do that in the desert? Next most used tech RIGHT NOW is lithium batteries. Other solutions exist, but how many are there implemented and ready to capture that energy right now? Oh, not so many? Then putting up more solar panels hoping that one day we have the storage for them is foolish, these panles lose efficiency over time. I don’t have an agenda to spread, there is no propaganda, I am only talking about the an issue which exists, which is energy storage, for which we have some solutions, with their pros and cons, but not close to being implemented.

    dan ,
    @dan@upvote.au avatar

    28,000,000 watts

    That’s usually written as 28MW. I know some Americans don’t like metric much, but one of the points of metric is that you don’t ever need to write that many zeroes - you just need to use the right prefix (kilo, mega, giga, tera, etc) on the unit.

    rc__buggy ,

    you just need to use the right prefix (kilo, mega, giga, tera, etc) on the unit.

    Oh, thanks.

    Bruh, it’s PC Gamer.

    quick edit: Hey! Why aren’t you converting it to Joules?

    Remavas ,
    @Remavas@programming.dev avatar

    Because Joule is the SI unit of energy, meanwhile the Watt is the SI unit of power, equivalent to one Joule per second.

    “Converting” joules to watts would be like converting m/s to US dollars.

    HerrBeter ,

    I liked the analogy but I do think it would be clearer to say something like joules = money in bank account and Watt = spending per second

    ipkpjersi ,

    True, but 28 million watts really puts things in perspective when your average PSU is less than 1000w.

    dan ,
    @dan@upvote.au avatar

    That’s true.

    average PSU is less than 1000w

    Unrelated but I wish it was easier to find lower-wattage PSUs. My local PC store doesn’t have anything under 650W. I know modern GPUs use a lot of power, but not all PCs use a GPU! I have a home server where 400W would be more than enough, yet the smallest I could find was 550W, in stock from just one manufacturer (Be Quiet).

    tomkatt ,

    I mean, it should be fine, just because the PSU can provide more watts doesn’t mean the system is actually using that much power. I have an 800w PSU in my gaming rig, but its average load is only 240 - 320w during gaming (I’ve measured it by powering the system with a portable Ecoflow battery).

    dan ,
    @dan@upvote.au avatar

    It runs fine, it’s just less efficient.

    riodoro1 ,

    Where are you getting this from? Intuition?

    I think the quiescent current and losses are less in a well engineered psu.

    hedidwot ,

    This is verifiable in manufactures data sheets.

    Efficiency at less than 20% and greater than 80% loads isn’t great relative to in between those ends.

    This is compounded by lower wattage PSUs being more limited with regard to features and benefits.

    If you end up with a 650w PSU and your system idles at 80 watts for the bulk of a working day you spend long periods of time in this less efficient window.

    We need to see some quality 300w to 600w designs come back onto the market.

    magi ,

    Exactly. This is literally a PC gamer article. Writing it out like that really puts it into perspective for the average reader.

    calcopiritus ,

    Way easier to compare 28MW to 1KW.

    randon31415 ,

    Yes, it is 28 times more!

    todd_bonzalez ,

    Wait, why do they need 150 GPUs for a 1.2 megapixel display?

    That’s less than 1080p!

    Who engineered this monstrosity?

    brbposting ,

    Says 16K, where’s the disconnect? (I don’t know display tech)

    todd_bonzalez , (edited )

    Ah, you’re right, that’s 1.2 megapixel for the exterior, and 132 megapixel for the interior.

    That’s a substantial increase, but it’s still the equivalent of about 16 4K screens, which absolutely does not need 150 GPUs!

    Edit: No, I was wrong, this entire monstrosity is overengineered to over two gigapixels on the inside, and that’s absolutely ridiculous.

    brbposting ,

    Anything most likely driving factor here?

    Extreme resolution requirements, massive number of LED elements, real-time rendering and synchronization needs, complex content processing, load distribution and redundancy, future-proofing capabilities, fraudulent kickback scheme

    yggdar , (edited )

    They say there are 16 screens inside, each with a 16k resolution. Such a screen would have 16x as many pixels as a 4k screen. The GPUs power those as well.

    For the number of GPUs it appears to make sense. 150 GPUs for the equivalent of about 256 4k screens means each GPU handles ±2 4k screens. That doesn’t sound like a lot, but it could make sense.

    The power draw of 28 MW still seems ridiculous to me though. They claim about 45 kW for the GPUs, which leaves 27955 kW for everything else. Even if we assume the screens are stupid and use 1 kw per 4k segment, that only accounts for 256 kW, leaving 27699 kW. Where the fuck does all that energy go?! Am I missing something?

    todd_bonzalez ,

    Oh Jesus, there are 16 16K screens? I didn’t read that right at all. That’s completely superfluous. The Las Vegas Sphere is an affront to God.

    Cosmicomical ,

    In the future there will be myths that we once had standards such as html but after we tried to build this sphere, god cursed us to use only incompatible proprietary protocols

    Vanix ,

    This is a complete shot in the dark but could the huge power draw come from needing some intense industrial cooling/airflow stuff in/on the sphere?

    Edit: forgot a word

    empireOfLove2 , (edited )
    @empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    The big power draw is because of the sheer amount of light it dumps out. You try lighting up 54,000 square meters of LED panel to a few hundred nits like a pc monitor, and see how much power it takes.

    Rai ,

    complete shot in the dark

    Man, I wanna delay the stupid edgy joke I’m making but I can’t help myself

    realharo ,

    More likely it’s the thing that generates all that heat in the first place.

    srecko ,

    Yeah, 4k phone and 4k plasma tv don’t consume same ammount of energy.

    ShepherdPie ,

    That’s the outside. The inside is 256 million pixels.

    Zachariah ,
    @Zachariah@lemmy.world avatar

    Add a solar array and battery bank, a you might even have electricity left over. It’s in the desert after all.

    LodeMike ,

    Still a waste of energy because that could be used for the general grid

    Zachariah ,
    @Zachariah@lemmy.world avatar

    I wouldn’t say entertainment is a waste of energy even if there are nobler uses for the power.

    LodeMike ,

    Advertising may be entertaining but it’s not entertainment

    Zachariah ,
    @Zachariah@lemmy.world avatar

    …Las Vegas Sphere—a gigantic spherical entertainment arena sitting at the heart of Sin City…

    yeather ,

    I think he means the outside

    Lost_My_Mind ,

    I dunno man. You ever see the infomercials for the magic bullet, or the slapchop?

    Fetticini

    Linguine

    Martini

    Bikini.

    You’re gonna love my nuts!

    Nurse_Robot ,

    Remember when he got his dick almost bitten off while doing coke with a hooker?

    catloaf ,

    Wasn’t it his lip?

    Nurse_Robot ,

    Shit you might be right. It’s been a long time

    LodeMike ,

    It may be entertaining, but it’s not entertainment.

    brbposting ,

    Remix still slaps

    https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/8f796e78-6830-4294-a621-62c823a4a2cf.jpeg

    youtu.be/UWRyj5cHIQA

    Rai ,

    I’m in a good mood all day

    Grimy ,

    Here’s a link. You can go inside of it and it’s essentially a huge concert venue. It’s clearly entertainment.

    m.youtube.com/watch?v=TuanMw6zwBk

    buttfarts ,

    Like those ass massaging power chairs.

    ShepherdPie ,

    I’d hate to be the one to use them after /u/buttfarts.

    Tilgare ,

    There wouldn’t be an incentive or the capital necessary to instigate the build out of solar without the sphere. Yes, it would be great if someone did that. But the owners of the sphere specifically have a financial incentive to do so for the sake of lower energy costs. There’s not a lack of land or sun, so whether they do or do not doesn’t amount to a “waste” of energy - anyone else can build out solar production too.

    maniacal_gaff ,

    I saw several concerts there and it was awesome. You want to live a life without anything fun in it?

    NeoNachtwaechter ,

    Have you ever seen a solar array that gives 28 MW?

    Zachariah ,
    @Zachariah@lemmy.world avatar

    en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_tower

    NeoNachtwaechter ,

    So?

    Zachariah ,
    @Zachariah@lemmy.world avatar

    Or how about six wind turbines? It’s rather windy in Las Vegas.

    NeoNachtwaechter ,

    I mean, have you seen it with your own eyes?

    Zachariah ,
    @Zachariah@lemmy.world avatar

    I’ve flown over a couple big ones. Not sure of the exactly area or output.

    Zachariah ,
    @Zachariah@lemmy.world avatar

    Is it bigger or smaller than a football field?

    NeoNachtwaechter ,

    Rough calculation says it needs about 28 ha, this could be about 30 football fields (depending on whatever they mean in your area when they say football :))

    Zachariah ,
    @Zachariah@lemmy.world avatar

    Thank you for doing the math.

    ShepherdPie ,

    110MW …wikipedia.org/…/Crescent_Dunes_Solar_Energy_Proj…

    392MW …m.wikipedia.org/…/Ivanpah_Solar_Power_Facility

    These are both near Vegas.

    werefreeatlast ,

    And a waste of electricity?

    JackbyDev ,

    I believe that’s implied in the “hubris” bit.

    UnderpantsWeevil ,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    Its one of the smaller atrocities in Vegas, particularly when compared to the Bellagio Fountain or the food waste generated by all those casino dining halls.

    chiliedogg ,

    The fountains aren’t quite as wasteful as they seem. They use a lot of water compared to a house, but way less than some car washes.

    CompostMaterial ,

    Plus it is recycled. They would only replace what is lost due to evaporation or after a drain and cleaning.

    BobGnarley ,

    Yeah we should have never invented televisions or records either! And don’t even get me started on cell phones. Just waste waste waste.

    Why, if it were up to me we would all still be hunting and gathering!

    vaultdweller013 ,

    Apples to oranges dude, this is for pure spectacle that wears off after five minutes. Plus any data gained from it was at the lab they prototyped it I believe in Burbank. This aint really a sign of progress, and itll be funny to see what happens to it when it inevitably breaks.

    xthexder ,
    @xthexder@l.sw0.com avatar

    I don’t know what they need so many GPUs for. There’s 16 displays inside, and the sphere itself has fewer pixels than even 1 of the internal displays. You could probably run the sphere off a laptop if you aren’t trying to do anything fancy.

    Maybe they plan on doing crazy live simulations on it or something. I can’t imagine what kind of displayed image would actually use all 150 of them. Nvidia A6000 cards are damn powerful.

    shasta ,

    I guess the practicality of the decision depends on the finances. Did they actually buy the cards or were they gifted by nvidia for free advertising?

    xthexder ,
    @xthexder@l.sw0.com avatar

    It does seem suspiciously like they picked 150 completely arbitrarily to make the project sound impressive, when they could have easily done it with 20. I’m sure a bunch of people in the middle made a bunch of money off that transaction too. Or like you said, maybe this is Nvidia doing some guerrilla marketing

    WhyFlip ,

    You don’t know. Full stop.

    xthexder ,
    @xthexder@l.sw0.com avatar

    My job has been to run things on GPUs for almost 10 years now. The only thing anyone practical is doing on that many GPUs is AI training, massive scientific simulations, or crypto mining. 1 or 2 of them is enough to run something like ChatGPT.

    Real-time graphics it turns out don’t scale well across multiple GPUs. There’s a reason SLI has gone away for consumer GPUs. At the current ratio, each of those $3000+ GPUs is only driving 8000 pixels (assuming each led puck is being used as 1 pixel, given their size). It makes no sense other than bragging rights

    Rolive ,

    Pretty sure it’s just for bragging rights.

    yardy_sardley ,

    Probably have a few cards running the displays and the rest of them mining some sphere-themed memecoin

    magnetosphere ,
    @magnetosphere@fedia.io avatar

    I hope the name “dystopia sphere” catches on.

    root ,

    Using the max power use of a video card to math this is ridiculous. It’s not at full TDP pushing this content. They aren’t playing max FPS 3D raytraced gaming, they’re playing videos.

    ByteJunk ,
    @ByteJunk@lemmy.world avatar

    What.

    The article says that, for the GPUs, they can have a “maximum power draw of 45,000 W at full tilt”.

    The 28 million W comes from the full system, and surely the massive displays, LEDs and eventually sound system makes up the bulk of that, the gfx cards are a rounding error…

    Zorsith ,
    @Zorsith@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Synchronizing that many screens into one/two continuous displays is not light computing work. Roughly every square foot is its own panel in commercial displays.

    blind3rdeye ,

    Is the ‘dystopia-sphere’ trying to compete with the torment nexus or something?

    mPony ,

    Thunderdome was already taken

    menemen ,
    @menemen@lemmy.world avatar

    I mean it is cool. But really a testament to why we deserve extinction at this point…

    drunkpostdisaster ,

    Might as well just give up on the earth right now I guess

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