The righties just hear the left complaining about the Industrial Revolution being bad for the planet and decided that would be a good target to reach. Can’t wait to pack like sardines and lose all my worker rights!!
Hot take is I don’t think anyone should care about Aaron Swartz. He didn’t do anything for Reddit in the merger and left without doing anything for Reddit so who cares. He then died being a martyr for a cause barely anyone cares about and his death didn’t inspire any change to education publication/copyright. Nobody should care.
Edit: you can downvote me all you want but I would like someone to comment on 1 thing Aaron contributed to Reddit. Why should anyone remember his name other than ‘but he killed himself for the cause bro’.
So by that logic Aaron is relatively obscure right? Must be surprising to see his name on a Lemmy thread with so many upvotes. 2 or 3 references lol sure. I’m sure you haven’t also seen one of the 2 or 3 documentaries on his life either.
For someone who is tired of hearing about Aaron Schwartz, you sure have a lot to say about him, and seem to think about him quite a lot. More than me for sure.
He was also a libertarian techbro who thought ‘child pornography isn’t necessarily abuse’
In the US, it is illegal to possess or distribute child pornography, apparently because doing so will encourage people to sexually abuse children.
This is absurd logic. Child pornography is not necessarily abuse. Even if it was, preventing the distribution or posession of the evidence won’t make the abuse go away. We don’t arrest everyone with videotapes of murders, or make it illegal for TV stations to show people being killed.
In the sense that he actually was a “free speech absolutist” type, yeah. I think we can be pretty certain he didn’t do it himself though, otherwise the FBI would absolutely have charged him for it as they harassed him to death.
He might get some of your healthy bacteria that could influence his gut health and turn him around now that he doesn’t have to deal with terrible butt problems
Yeah, in an ideal world, the next and last thing I would hear about trump is Obituary: Donald (tiny hands) Trump, the worst President in history passed away today after rolling over in his sleep and suffocating on his pillow. He was unable to roll back due to diet and exercise history. His family has not picked up the body due to the willing members being incarcerated.
Got some pot on you? Straight to jail. Try to overthrow the government? See you in 3+ years where you MIGHT get a slap on the wrist but also might get to be president again.
I kinda get your point, but also If you watch enough news you realize there is no W here. It’s all meaningless because Trump owns SCOTUS and they have the final say.
EDIT: No, SCOTUS isn’t beholden to Trump but electing him is in their interests.
EDIT2: Well I certainly hope yall are right and they won’t let him on the ballot but I’m not holding my breath.
They’ve ruled against him a lot. They could have thrown a huge wrench into the election by allowing Texas to sue PA, buy they didn’t it. If he owned it, it would go the other way.
SCOTUS isn’t beholden to anyone. Not even Trump. Once they were confirmed they don’t need a thing from him and have that office until they die. Sure they have a right leaning majority, but they still seem pretty cognizant that there rulings can be used by democrats too, so handing wins to Trump isn’t exactly straight forward. If they claim Trump has immunity while in office and after leaving, that applies to the current administration too. It would be a huge gamble to rule in favor of Trump on this appeal and I don’t think they want to open that can of worms while someone else can take advantage of it.
Not to mention, even if Trump gets out of this scot free, the results of the n xt election are far from certain. Biden could be welding thos immunity powers for the next four years too.
SCOTUS is laden with Federalist Society conservative wackjobs, but they (aside from Thomas and Alito a bit) have zero love for Trump. They’re more than happy to side with him when it serves long-term conservative principles and aims, but that have demonstrated zero hesitation when his policies and pleadings don’t align with their own.
Except the Trump presidency does coincide with their aims. Trump would Usher in the greatest destruction of the federal government in US history. He’s the federalist society’s dream. He has no morals or Scruples he does whatever his advisors tell him and his advisors are from the Federalist Society.
Only if you try to overthrow the government for the Federalists. If you try to overthrow it in the name of progress, you’ll be a spending the rest of your life in a very uncomfortable prison.
Expand the court. “But republicans will do the same” you might say. To that I say “okay, let the court be a million judges to show just how shitty and ridiculous it is, let it collapse under its own stupidity. Besides, the conservatives already control the court, so there’s really nothing to lose.”
Upon learning this in High School I was baffelled… There are no requirements to being a Supreme Court justice in the constitution. Simply that you are appointed by the president, and Congress confirms you. You don’t need a background in law at all. There is no age requirement at all. There aren’t even citizenship requirements. By the Constitution, Biden could appoint Gretta Thornburg to the Supreme Court, and Congress could confirm her, and we would have Justice Thornburg for the next 70-odd years.
My favored tactic is to – Bam! Expand the court to 11 in one year, than 13 in two. Nuke the filibuster if you have to.
Then Democrats can sit down with Republicans and say “You can let us appoint 4 justices to lifetime terms and wait until you get the Presidency and both houses of Congress to expand it more, or you can work with us to pass an amendment to set up term limits and other reforms so the SC is no longer a political football”.
The main issue is confirmations. If enough Republicans hold the Senate, they can stall confirmation until their guy comes into office and then stuff the court further.
If enough people do this, they won’t have any power. They literally cannot arrest us all.
Look at what we did with marijuana.
That said, this really only applies to states’ rights. California can disobey the supreme court without repercussion. Women can’t disobey abortion bans in their states unless the vast majority of them band together.
The problem with that is, if the vast majority of them banded together then they could remove the bans in the first place.
What was it that “we did with marijuana”? Because there are a shit load of people in prison that would be happy to know that the problem has been fixed.
Edit: lol at this being controversial. Just to clarify: we haven’t fixed shit with respect to cannabis. We’ve barely put a band-aid on the problem. Yes I’m glad some states have explicitly gone against federal law, but you’re ignorant as fuck if you think we fixed the problem in any way.
Edit: maybe someone who downvoted can point out to me where they explain how we’ve solved the cannabis problems in the US. Because we definitely fucking haven’t. A handful of states literally breaking federal law isn’t a solution.
You said “look at what we did with marijuana,” and the context was very clear.
So I asked what we did with marijuana that is so notable? Because I don’t consider a handful of states explicitly breaking federal law and as such not even able to use banks, as any kind of solution whatsoever.
I don’t think you ever gave a sufficient answer.
You can try to move the goalposts after the fact, but the implication was very clear.
There are also a shit load of people who aren’t in there anymore because of what we did. Was it a complete solution? No, but with Republicans around nothing ever is.
A bunch of Ivy League recent graduates who will become CEOs or politicians some day.
For American companies they get paid millions to say “you have to do layoffs and raise CEO pay, also charge customers more” regardless of what the question was.
But what they do overseas is worse. They work for dictatorships like Saudi Arabia and try to help them improve their public images and hide the horrible shit they do.
At least that’s what they admit, they do a lot worse just often require their clients never mention McKinsey’s involvement
Saudi Arabia threw them under the bus tho and said this:
The limitations of this model came into sharp focus recently, with the revelation that McKinsey may have inadvertently played a role in Saudi Arabia’s mistreatment of critics. On October 20th, the Times reported that the government of the Saudi crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman, had employed operatives to harass dissidents, including the Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi, who was allegedly murdered inside the Saudi consulate in Istanbul, on October 2nd. The article included the revelation that McKinsey had prepared a nine-page report measuring the public perception of certain Saudi economic policies, and cited three individuals who were driving much of the largely negative coverage on Twitter: a Saudi Arabia-based writer named Khalid al-Alkami, a dissident living in Canada named Omar Abdulaziz, and an anonymous writer. After the report was created, Al-Alkami was arrested, and Abdulaziz’s brothers living in Saudi Arabia were put in prison. The anonymous Twitter channel was shut down.
They literally help far right dictators harras journalists, which can lead to their deaths or torture.
You may have heard of them when it came out Pete Buttiegeig did overseas work for them.
It’s why he dropped out of public eye and stopped pretending to be a progressive but I’m worried in a decade he’ll be back doing it again and people might fall for it
Police have offered a conflicting account of what happened Jan. 10, saying in a statement Friday that they had executed a search warrant at the correct address and the child did not “sustain any apparent, visible injuries.”
Never ever, ever, believe a police statement of any kind. Police reps are gangsters and liars.
Honestly at this point I feel like if I was on a jury for some court case and some of the evidence was the testimony of a police officer, that’d probably make me less confident of whatever they had said than if they had said nothing at all. When a profession has every incentive to lie, little consequence to doing so, and in some cases consequences for revealing the lies of one’s coworkers, there is precious little room for credibility.
Based on historic police statements, the fact it conflicts at all should let you know it’s full of lies. Usually they get their story straight AND still lie, the fact that they can’t even do that is damning imo.
So high level overview is that Strickland was an ultra MAGA bishop who strongly supported Trump, and has publicly stated that he’d refuse the normal method for a bishop to be removed, in which he is asked to resign.
There’s also this anecdote from the article:
Last year, when the Vatican defrocked ultra-conservative U.S. anti-abortion priest Frank Pavone for “blasphemous” social media posts and disobedience to bishops, Strickland was one of the few American bishops to defend him publicly.
“The blasphemy is that this holy priest is canceled while an evil president promotes the denial of truth and the murder of the unborn at every turn, Vatican officials promote immorality and denial of the deposit of faith and priests promote gender confusion devastating lives…evil,” Strickland wrote on the platform then known as Twitter.
So basically, Strickland joined one of the most authoritarian organizations in the world, the Catholic Church, and then refused to obey the Pope, instead choosing to worship fucking Donald Trump, of all people, all the while calling President Biden and even the Vatican “evil.”
Sounds like this man was far too stupid to be in such a position of power. Just another idiot who sacrificed himself for a rich con man.
He’s no Martin Luther but yeah you’re probably right, he’ll make his own with cocaine, hookers, and Homosexual pedophilia… He’s still a Catholic priest after all.
Hardly a stupid manages to become a bishop… it’s like saying a stupid becomes Senior Vice President of a huge corporation. It just doesn’t happen “accidentally”.
What it is more likely is that he was in the conservative side of the church (pope Benedict nominated him). When a “progressive”, (relatively) young and healthy as Francis went on power he realised that he couldn’t become any more senior in the church (before retiring in 10years) so he tried to accumulate as many “donations” as possible from the most gullible people in his neighbourhood (MAGA supporters). He just did what trump does: be an anti establishment (while well inside the establishment)
Hardly a stupid manages to become a bishop… it’s like saying a stupid becomes Senior Vice President of a huge corporation. It just doesn’t happen “accidentally”.
Both are often achieved through family/connections and not by personal achievements or intelligence.
The human brain is a complicated thing. It’s possible to be smart in one area, while being abjectly stupid in another. You might as well say that a stupid person couldn’t become mayor of New York City, and so Rudy Giuliani must not be stupid.
Strickland could have easily just chosen to keep quiet and wait for the next pope, which will probably happen relatively soon. So, in that respect, this seems ridiculously stupid. But I think you’re suggesting that he decided to “cash out” on his role, regardless. In which case, it seems that he’s simply evil instead of just stupid. I guess I could buy that, as well. I think it’s pretty apt to suggest that every high profile MAGA person is either evil, stupid, or both. But I tend to think there has to be a strong element of stupidity in there, even if they’re just mostly evil. After all, it’s Donald Trump…
There’s probably gonna be a lot of trolls in here, but I have to say this is incredibly sad. I do hope his sermons preached love and acceptance rather than the hate that caused him to take his life.
Seriously. He wouldn’t have killed himself if he was surrounded by accepting people.
It’s still tragic that someone felt they couldn’t be themself, but when you spend your time empowering intolerance and then find yourself a target of that intolerance? I have no tears to spare.
Yes, I find it sad when someone is driven to suicide. It’s weird, I know.
I feel that a man who dresses up as a woman in their free time did not decide for himself that gay/trans people are evil. This man probably had been lying to himself and others about who he was for decades, living through self-hate and trying to convince himself that he was “normal” and not “one of those fags” and the like.
Now that he’s accepted himself and thought that he was safe to express who he was in private online communities (obviously stupid for someone in his position), his whole world is coming down on him. Now everyone knows he’s “one of them”.
I don’t know enough about the guy to comment with certainty on what harm he may have caused as mayor, if he actively made life harder for gay/ trans people then that’s really shitty of him. All I’m saying is, things don’t happen in a vacuum, and this guy is just as much a victim of hate and bigotry as anyone else who’s killed themselves over it.
Yeah exactly. Some folks pass the point of sympathy. Folks like Joseph McCarthy, people who run conversion camps, Milo Yannanopolos, Blaire White, etc. But it’s hard to hit that point. I generally draw that line after having accepted yourself or begun living as yourself. And even then, I don’t want these people dead, I want them to change and work to undo the harm they’ve done.
Targeted outing is an important tactic. It’s a way to force the people in power to own up to their hypocrisy and to stop people from hiding their true self behind hate. That’s not what this is, this is outing someone to cause them harm and to scare others. It’s an old harassment technique that’s been done as long as the internet has been around to try to hurt trans people, and it’s not ok.
Explained it the best. I hate what he did. I hate what a lot of people do. But I’m always sad to lose someone who had a chance to change.
It’s what the internet is worst at, forgiving. This person said awful things and did awful things, but if he hadn’t taken his life and had instead worked through this, I honestly believe that he would be someone alive and worth forgiving.
This doesn’t ever excuse the damage people do. I think that’s what people forget. You can forgive people without excusing their harm. But it’s always important that those who seek forgiveness both receive it AND receive it as they work to undo the harm if possible. Sometimes that won’t be possible.
Exactly. The harm is done regardless. I want us to be the side of “I changed for the better”. We shouldn’t immediately trust people or forgive them of course, that “unconditional forgiveness and trust so long as you repent and are on our side” bullshit is part of how Christians keep winding up with a bunch of pedos. But I do believe in restorative justice. Sometimes people become good after doing many bad things.
I want people to be better, so I think we need to stop punishing them for trying to be better. I’ll take former republicans, I’ll take reformed bigots, I’ll take assholes trying to be better, so long as all of them are actually striving to improve. And sometimes those people need to not be in a room so people can get a break from their not being quite there yet or because of the harm they did in the past, but that’s ok, the goal is to get them there.
It’s easy for me to judge living in anonymity in a progressive city with a supporting network around me (I’m trans).
More likely she was raised conservative, built a career and family around it, in a small southern town where maintaining that facade is the only way to be accepted, then realized “oh shit I’m trans” and panicked.
At that point, I can totally understand how difficult it would be to escape decades of baggage. Many trans ppl are reluctant to come out for precisely those reasons: career, family, lack of acceptance. The result is turmoil.
I view her more as a lost trans sibling who was born into a cruel world and should be mourned, while not excusing her poor choices of political affiliation. I’m sure it was a daily struggle trying to reconcile what conservatives were saying about people like her, with her own identity.
Not everyone is strong enough to fight this fight.
Yeah it’s so sad that some giga pervert killed himself after being exposed for writing erotic fanfiction about him murdering and taking over the life of a local business woman and posting his transition fetish memes using real children.
The most important thing I've learned from discussions around this conflict is that about 95% of the chucklefucks involved are not equipped to discuss it and should shut the fuck up, myself included
Yep, people like to look and see black and white, but situation is very complex.
Is a roller coaster when you start learning more about it, but it followed:
Israel is supported by my country so they are the good guys
Jews came from Europe and took land from them, and keep them in open prison, also killing them, including children, now they are bombing civilians, many innocent people are dying
oh wait it actually it wasn’t exactly Palestinian land until recently, Jews are technically Palestinians that were run to Europe by Arabs. The Palestinians also don’t want any compromise and won’t stop until they eradicate every single Jew and the entire land will be Arab. (here’s where I’m and I’m sure there’s more)
Oh the fuck this is so complex, and the worst thing is there isn’t any way solution in sight because at least one side doesn’t want any compromise.
I saw comment and I believe it is most accurate of this situation. There won’t be a peace until Palestinians will start loving their children more than they hate Jews.
Again, I don’t support what Israeli government is doing, they do kill innocent people in the process, but Palestinians aren’t exactly greatest neighbors either. The countries that in the past accepted them as refugees ended up having civil wars started by them.
Maybe better than Europeans but not ‘well’ there have been discriminatory laws in many Muslim countries over the years and most Muslim countries have ethnically cleaned their countries of Jews, Jewish communities in Iraq, syria etc… Pre date islam.
And of course under ottoman rule their were laws against Jews immigrating to palestine
You might want to continue to learn about the issue, as your comment is not exactly an even analysis. It seems more like a narrative wrapped up in surface-level analysis.
oh wait it actually it wasn’t exactly Palestinian land until recently, Jews are technically Palestinians that were run to Europe by Arabs. The Palestinians also don’t want any compromise and won’t stop until they eradicate every single Jew and the entire land will be Arab. (here’s where I’m and I’m sure there’s more)
This is misinformation. Even Hamas said they want a two-state solution. Fucking Hamas. Meanwhile Israel... Well you can look up Netenyahu's position on the conflict yourself.
Oh the fuck this is so complex, and the worst thing is there isn’t any way solution in sight because at least one side doesn’t want any compromise.
Tbf, aside from lobbing missile into other country, Hamas has to bear some blame here. If they would recognize Israel as a country, the conflict will likely turn its tide. That is the compromise they wouldn’t take.
If they would recognize Israel as a country, the conflict will likely turn its tide.
I'm not sure how that would happen. There have been two ceasefires with Hamas that fell apart because Israel didn't lift the blockade as promised, even as Hamas followed it for months on end.
We already know Netenyahu's position on Palestine; he's not exactly trying to hide it, and the West Bank is currently being colonized (up to and including pogroms) by Israel so it's not like peace is working either.
Because by then all the ball will be on Netanyahu’s court. When Hamas announce their new charter, US made it clear that if it doesn’t include recognizing Israel as a country then they will not have a dialog. Of course, at that time there’s Trump so it won’t work regardless, and now it’s too late.
Because by then all the ball will be on Netanyahu’s court.
It's been for a long time now. Netenyahu and his ilk have made it very clear they don't want a Palestinian state. Like they're turning it into an election platform. The PLO recognized Israel in preparation for the Oslo Accords, and what happened? What's the state of the PNA now?
Are you old enough to remember the Olso accords and the peace process? Pals have been offered states numerous times, they don’t want it , they want to fight, every resource they use for terror. Israel is just supposed to make concessions until the pals come around to peace ? They will not.
You don’t understand the mindset, if you lived in any Muslim country particularly in the Midwest you would find things very difficult, particularly if you are a women, or gay, or a non Muslim. They will kill a woman who doesn’t wear her scarf, forget about talking to men… these people are fascist in a way that you do not understand
You can look up the hamas charter, they advocate genocide.
You are ignorant of history, pals have been offered statehood numerous times throughout the years and their position has always been there can be no Jewish presence in Israel.
The PLO dropped that position in the 80s, and even Hamas dropped it sometime in the 2000s/2010s. You're the one who's ignorant of history. And they're not pals, they're Palestinians.
And regardless of what they say their actions speak louder than words and they lie about absolutely everything, how naive.couod you be? Didn’t you see hamas on cnn this week saying things like they did not target civilians on 10/7, they are decrepit.
It’s not complex at all. Palestinians have been ejected from their homes time and again by the State of Israel. Now they’ve been forced out of the West Bank and are all in Gaza, an open air prison. Hamas, a terrorist group, attacks Israel. Israel indiscriminately starts bombing Gaza where half of the inmates are children. Predictably, loads of civilians and children die.
People with a soul are on the side of the innocent civilians being murdered in an open air prison they were forced into by the apartheid Israeli government. It’s really that simple.
It was Egypt that turned Gaza into a prison in '48… And I don’t think Israel ever forced anyone from the WB to go live in Gaza? It seems it’s not really that simple
The simple reality is that islam is a fascist religion and are willing to live in peace with a Jewish state of any borders, look up the 1948 UN partition, whereas Israel has made numerous offers and concessions to peace over the year.
I promise you any thing you say for why pals are justified in their actions because of their oppression is a distortion of history, that pals have started every single conflict.
Unless your position is that the quaran was revealed to Mohamed by God and Hamas has interpreted correctly to say that there can only be Muslim nations in the world then you are supporting fascist idiotic terrorists.
Jews are the natives of the land, you can see there is a mosque built on the Jewish temple, Islam is the colonizer, islam is intolerant, and it’s not just in Israel, it’s in many countries
Yeah, because the Tanakh is so benevolent and all iterations of it are peaceful. Fuck this Sam Harris justification for Islamophobia. All these religions can be fascist, all these religions can be peaceful.
Followers of Islam once carried on the spirit of enlightenment and philosophy while Christians were in the depths of their dark ages. They maintained the knowledge that came from across the old world, while making essential contributions to important things like: The scientific method, social science as a field, economics, culture, and mathematics.
Where the fuck do you think Arabic numerals like 1, 9, or 0 came from? Europe? No. They were invented in India and spread through the world by Islamic cultures and states. Everyone on earth uses these numerals, a universal human language, all thanks to the Islamic world.
So fuck your assertions that Islam is a uniquely terrible religion. If Islam is a religion that can’t exist in a peaceful world, no religion can exist in a peaceful world. How can a religion that helped everyone speak the same language, that has historically existed at the crossroads between Europe, Asia, and Africa, be incompatible with other cultures? It’s a non factor in the discussion of Palestine and Israel.
ISIS and hamas are not enlightened islam, a religion follows it’s interpretation and what ISIS and Hamas do is blasphemy. Islam is not from God, it may have worked in the middle ages but now people who are reading it are insane fundamentalist. There are peaceful Muslims but not the mullahs in Iran, or ISIS or Hamas. Yes the bible says to kill people who violate the sabbath but functionally speaking no one is killed for violating the sabbath and it was not even interpreted that way in biblical times. The war musings of the quaran are interpreted this way by Muslims around the world.
Even if there are more fundamentalist Muslims today than fundamentalist Christians, that does not mean the entire religion cannot exist in a peaceful world. Certain sects and interpretations might be unacceptable, but as long as there is a single Muslim that works towards peace and coexistence, a single peaceful interpretation of the Quran, you can’t say we should not tolerate Islam. This absolutism is evil, stupid, and you should feel bad for falling into bigotry. Just make a distinction between theocratic fascists and religious people. Stop equating the two.
There are way more fundamentalist Muslims and further more fundamentalist Christians are not dangerous, the religion of the New testament is love and evangelism. The Spanish inquisition was not based on anything from the bible.
In islam it is not a far fetched interpretation to say that the world should be violently conquered in the name of islam, they follows from a simple reading and the leaders of many Arab governments such as Iran follow it. Half of Iran hates this fundamentalist interpretation but the other half doesn’t and they are dangerous. And throughout the Muslim world - the 911 hijackers, ISIS, Hamas there are these extremists. Yes it is possible to have a peaceful islam they coexists but it’s also possible that islamic fascism will be predominate and it is dangerous and it should be fought
You must have a very strange definition of Christian fundamentalism, because the people I would describe as fundamentalists are absolutely a threat. You also seem to think that people don’t use Bible passages to justify basically anything while still claiming only their interpretation is valid. These people think of themselves as having the actual, literal interpretation of the Bible.
What pisses me off the most is that fascist Christians are the biggest threat to me personally. They’re the people calling for people like me to be eradicated from public life or straight up killed. I’m not over here arguing that we should do the same thing to Christians that you endorse against Muslims.
Even if the Bible had no passages encouraging fucked up behavior, the existence of Christian fascists shows that the content of the religious text does not prevent a religion from fueling fascism.
So what you are gay or trans? Show me the worst thing a Christian fascist has done. In gaza you would be killed, it would be endorsed by the government, it is routine they they kill gays, you know that right ?
In Christianity there are a wide range of interpretations but the text of the bible does not say to violently impose Christianity on the world, that is one reason why there are much fewer christian fundamentalist. The text of the quaran does say to violently impose islam, that is why it’s much more dangerous as that is what crazy fundamentalist read.
Aside from the hate crimes, mass shootings, and kicking queer kids out of the house that’s standard in America, states like Florida have made it impossible for even many adults to get gender affirming care among other things. They want to impose their gender ideology everywhere they can and would not hesitate to pass federal bans on people like me. There are prominent, self proclaimed Christian nationalists in congress, and they are not a fringe minority. Almost half of Republicans believe America should reject secularism and officially become a Christian nation. The current Republican speaker of the House wants to get rid of the separation of church and state for crying out loud.
Christian nationalists want to do the same thing Islamic theocracies can do. They cheer whenever opposing fascists attack a common enemy. I take these evil bastards at their word. When a fascist tells you what they’ll do with power, believe them. I’m not going to wait for the concentration camps and you shouldn’t either. If you can’t accept that a group is genocidal until they actually carry it out, you’ll never do anything to prevent it. That would make you less than useless.
It’s terrible that fascists like Hamas rule Gaza. No matter how much you want me to be a foolish queer who thinks Hamas are the good guys, that will never be the case. It would be great if you were to question why you assumed that, but you won’t, because then you might realize how terrible it is that you’re supporting genocide.
Well I’m glad that you oppose Hamas, but you would not do well in any Arab country. However bad you believe Christians are in America if you were in any Muslim country they would literally kill you.
Gender transition has been legal in america for decades, the debates from Christians are if you can do it as a child, if you can do it for free… No one is trying to kill you at an organized level, there may be lone wolf terrorists like the Muslim who shot up the gay night club in Orlando but it’s not like after that happened people were celebrating in the streets applauding what he did, how would you feel if after that gay night club shooting that people came out in the thousands to support him? No he was arrested and no one, not any christian endorsed it.
There are not Christians who say explicitly things like 'all people have to be Christians ’ or ‘we.should kill all gays’, that is literally what they say in Muslim countries, that.all gays should be killed, that.all Jews should be killed, that all places.shouldnl follow Muslim law. There fighting is not the result of a brutal occupation, it is their ideaology and they are occupied and oppressed because of it, because of they weren’t suppressed they’d be murderous.
There are Christians, right now, in America, who do want me dead. It’s not a hypothetical. Anti-trans activists don’t want to stop at children. This was always a lie that dumbasses like you fell for. You fell for it because you’re motivated to believe that Christians are better than Muslims. You just don’t get that the policies of Sharia law would be popular on the right in America if they had a Christian coat of paint.
Republicans are all fascists. The only non fascist conservatives have been pushed out of the party. Liz Cheney? Primaried. Mitt Romney? Retiring. None of them are allowed to be moderate. In order to win, Republicans must support fascism. They are no less backwards than Iran. You’re deluding yourself if you think otherwise. Trump, a monster that embodies every quality of the anti-Christ, is their messiah. America is in grave danger.
Christians are way better than Muslims, no matter what you show me the fact is in gaza you would be killed and children would dance around your dead body and the government would pay the people who killed you.
If I can’t convince you that Christian fascists are on the same level as Islamic fascists with any amount of evidence, your belief that Muslims are worse isn’t one you got to through logic. You’re simply a pathetic bigot who believes in the supremacy of Christianity over Islam. You desperately hold to the belief that Muslims are worse because it justifies their mistreatment. I don’t care if Hamas would kill me in horrific fashion, because Christian fascists in my country openly want the same. It’s functionally no different for me if a Muslim hangs me from a lamppost, or a Christian hangs me from a lamppost.
The persecution of queer people in Palestine can’t be used to justify killing those very same people. Israel isn’t helping queer civilians by bombing their homes and forcing them to die of dehydration. They don’t want to be killed by Hamas, and they don’t want to be killed by Israel. If I was a queer Palestinian, I would not appreciate you using me as a political prop to further the argument against my existence.
No Christians aren’t actually hanging gays from lamp posts, Muslims are.
If you were a queer Palestinian you would try to get to america Israel.
But their treatment of queers aren’t why they’re being killed, they’re being killed because they are openly at war and they are crying about retaliation , they absolutely refuse peace
Of course! I can’t complain about genocidal Christians until they actually gain power and institute the genocide they keep calling for. How could I be so stupid?
And the queer Palestinians just have to leave their homes if they want to live. Why didn’t I think of that? They can’t try to improve the country they were born in. The only way to combat fascism is from another country. If fascists gain power, you must give up on your country and leave. People who fight fascism from within a country deserve what they get.
Queer Palestinians are not part of Palestinians in some contexts while totally part of them in others. The anti-Hamas Palestinians deserve to die for even living under the regime, regardless of their support or actions taken against it. As already stated, as soon as fascists take power, you have to give up and leave your country. Anyone living under a fascist regime deserves death. The French resistance to Nazi occupation? Death. Jews that weren’t able to foresee the Holocaust and leave before it happened? Too bad, get better at predicting the future.
And I’ve seen your approach of equating opposition to Israel killing innocents with endorsement of Hamas way, way too many times.
It’s a tired approach, but it is often successful.
I want Hamas to stop existing, full stop. However, I don’t think Isreal gets any closer to destroying Hamas using their current strategy. The only way it could work is if they kill all Palestinians, which is not at all acceptable.
The israelis who have been victimized by terror for decades seem to have given up caring what you think of their approach. If Palestinians continue to defend and cooperate with Hamas, they will absolutely be putting themselves at risk - they are making themselves combatants by the Geneva convention.
Not all Palestinians are Hamas, no one is saying that. Until the Palestinians start putting a divide between who’s supporting Hamas (thousands of people cheering over a raped and brutalized body of a hostage? That’s supporting Hamas just so we’re clear) and who’s not they’re all at risk. Running to the roof of a building as a human shield, putting yourself intentionally at risk after being warned? Also supporting Hamas.
Israelis nor Palestinians will be safe until Hamas has been removed from their hold on the strip. That’s the reality that the western world understands and has shown support for.
It is true that Isreal has ultimate say over what they do. That said, many Israelis have always opposed their country’s treatment of Palestinians. Many Palestinians with influence abroad condemn Hamas, but people see their concern for innocent civilians and filter out their condemnation of Hamas. There are Palestinians making the divide, but y’all refuse to listen to them or other people that stand by them.
There are dumbasses who support Hamas, but most people that oppose Isreal’s campaign don’t. The Harvard students who’ve been harassed for a statement they made copied most of their statement from an Israeli newspaper. They did not defend Hamas. The Jewish activists who sat in at the US Capitol did not defend Hamas, but people claimed they did. Even if you’re a Jewish Israeli, you can’t even critique Isreal’s response without people claiming you love Hamas. It’s some McCarthyism shit, and you’re perpetuating it.
This all comes back to my point that Israel’s strategy won’t work. I want Hamas destroyed, but I recognize that the IDF has failed to weaken Hamas for decades, and cannot be trusted to do it now. In fact, their current warpath is exactly what Hamas wants them to do. Hamas doesn’t care about Palestinians, they only want to rule over them. You think Hamas didn’t expect Isreal to do exactly what they’ve been doing? They wanted Isreal to act like an existential threat, because that pushes Palestinians into seeing Hamas as the only option. The biggest treat to Hamas is a more moderate Isreal. The internal Israeli resistance to Netanyahu was the real threat to Hamas’ power, as Bibi has long worked to weaken the PLO more than Hamas.
If someone argument is: they warn them, even though there are pictures of convey leaving an area getting bombed, or death numbers, in non hamas areas, west bank, has sky rocketed, you can tell they don’t care about human dying, they just want to win an argument over the internet.
They bomb where there are terrorists and there are definitely terrorists in the west bank, they hide behind civilians for propaganda and safety. Civilians will definitely get killed, it’s a war and this happens in every war
Not if there are enemy combatants in those places. You can’t launch missiles from a hospital and expect the enemy not to strike at your missile stockpile
If terrorists are shooting missiles at you, you have the right to respond and shoot missiles back. If you warned the civilians and not all of them left, that’s a situation out of your control. Do you have an alternate solution?
By internationally recognized you mean recognized by the Muslim community.
Up until 1967 Egypt controlled gaza and Jordan the west bank and there was no talk of peace, the line has always been there can be no state of Israel in any form. Within the last 20 years pals have been offered states on the 1967 borders and refused. The Oslo accords which included incremental steps to peace led to nothing but terrorism, all the aid pals receive they use for terrorism. They have explicitly unanimously said for decades that they will fight Israel to the death and have not made any offers or concessions to peace and you want to just these Islamic fundamentalist to behave if they let them into Israel? Do you know the history of Lebanon. You are native if you think you can trust hamas’, ISIS… Did you not see hamas on TV saying they didn’t target civilians in their attacks?
1947 is its own mess, but it was Israel (specifically Netenyahu) who called off the Oslo accords. Where the fuck did you find that Palestinians refused a two state solution in 1993?
The Palestinians suspended the talks and never made a counter offer. After that Hamas etc sent suicide bombers and an Israeli terrorist machine gunned a mosque and there’s never been a chance of peace since
In Israel’s May 1999 elections, the Labor Party’s Ehud Barak decisively defeated Netanyahu. Barak predicted that he could reach agreements with both Syria and the Palestinians in 12 to 15 months, and pledged to withdraw Israeli troops from southern Lebanon. In September, Barak signed the Sharm al-Shaykh Memorandum with Arafat, which committed both sides to begin permanent status negotiations. An initial round of meetings, however, achieved nothing, and by December the Palestinians suspended talks over settlement-building in the occupied territories.
Okay so we need to distinguish between the Oslo accords (which Netenyahu called off in 1996) and the 2000 Camp David summit. You're talking about the latter. With that out of the way, the 2000 Camp David summit deal had very objectionable terms for Palestinians. I can go into the details, but I think we can just take the then-Israeli Minister of Foreign Relations's word for it.
In 2006, Shlomo Ben-Ami stated on Democracy Now! that "Camp David was not the missed opportunity for the Palestinians, and if I were a Palestinian I would have rejected Camp David, as well.
You’re right, I was referring to Camp David, and the deal sounds pretty good conpared to today’s situation
The proposals included the establishment of a demilitarised Palestinian state on some 92% of the West Bank and 100% of the Gaza Strip, with some territorial compensation for the Palestinians from pre-1967 Israeli territory; the dismantling of most of the settlements and the concentration of the bulk of the settlers inside the 8% of the West Bank to be annexed by Israel; the establishment of the Palestinian capital in east Jerusalem, in which some Arab neighborhoods would become sovereign Palestinian territory and others would enjoy “functional autonomy”; Palestinian sovereignty over half the Old City of Jerusalem (the Muslim and Christian quarters) and “custodianship,” though not sovereignty, over the Temple Mount; a return of refugees to the prospective Palestinian state though with no “right of return” to Israel proper; and the organisation by the international community of a massive aid programme to facilitate the refugees’ rehabilitation.
You’re right, I was referring to Camp David, and the deal sounds pretty good conpared to today’s situation
It's better than today's situation, but the thing is that nobody could've predicted the situation would get this bad. Also, the thing about accepting a two-state solution is that it's a one-time thing. All proposals so far included considering the conflict ended, so when you accept a Palestinian state with no East Jerusalem, no territorial contiguity (the offer would have it divided into four parts connected by Israeli territory that could be closed off in cases of emergency) and no control over its own airspace or water sources, you're stuck with these things forever.
the establishment of the Palestinian capital in east Jerusalem, in which some Arab neighborhoods would become sovereign Palestinian territory and others would enjoy “functional autonomy”
I have to question the accuracy of this, given that the Israeli PM stated that he wasn't willing to grant Palestinians anything more than symbolic sovereignty over East Jerusalem at the start of the negotiations, and in fact that was one of the main contention points.
Before 1967 the arabs refused to accept the state of Israel and launched a war to destroy it in 1967 so they lost the land. The land is not held for them in perpetuity to attack and attack… If they want peace they have to give in peace, if they attack them they should be attacked, it is simple.
No one should be kept in prison but you keep a murderer in prison because of what they’ve done.
At this point you will say, well what about what Israel did… And I promise you if you go back pals have instigated every conflict. They are unwilling to live in peace with non Muslim, they follow a fascist Islamic ideology and are explicit about it. The jews , who are the natives of the land, have repeatedly shown a willingness to live in peace with arabs, with a pal state and with arabs in the Jewish state. During the Oslo peace negotiations they talked about putting Arab areae of Israel under the PLO and the Israeli arabs absolutely refused, Arabs living in Israel have better quality of life than anywhere in the Arab world, Arab countries are corrupt theocracies, Israel is a liberal democracy , this is why the fascist Muslims hate it, this is what they are talking about when they say ‘european colonialsim’, that it’s not a fascist Muslim theocracy
So since you're a massive moron I don't plan to engage with you much longer, but lemme say this: Netenyahu's election platform is and has been for thirty years not making peace with Palestinians. He's actively sabotaged the Palestinian peace movement over and over to prevent it from happening.
Yeah he won because before him you had leftist prime ministers who offered everything to the pals, have them more autonomy and it only resulted in more terrorism. The pals will fight to the death no matter what, they say so explicitly, they don’t want freedom or prosperity they are Islamic fascist and want to destroy Israel , that’s it. If they wanted peace and prosperity they’ve already had every opportunity
They don’t do a great job of it, but when has anyone else prevented all civilian casualties in a war? It doesn’t mean they don’t have the right to strike at Hamas
That’s right that they don’t do a great job at that as they kill over 20 times more Palestinians than Hamas kills Israeli. They just don’t care at all.
That’s such a dumb argument, Hamas would LOVE to kill more civilians in fact they’d like to kill all the Jewish people in Israel. Israel could very easily kill everyone in Gaza but instead they’re building complex defensive systems and using incredibly expensive systems to try and limit civilian casualties.
The oppression of Palestinian people by Israel predates the existence of Hamas. Gaza (until 2007 when the blockade began) and the West Bank have been under Israeli military occupation since 1967, against international law. Hamas is a more violent, more radical descendant from the Muslim Brotherhood and was founded in 1987.
What I don’t understand is why many reject Sharia law as fascist and undemocratic, which is a justified opinion, but hand-wave Zionism even tho it’s the same fascist Holy Scripture bullshit in a different color.
Yes Hamas are not nice people and would happily kill every Israeli, but that doesn’t mean Israel should not exercise caution to avoid killing palestinians.
I completely agree, and I really think they do because if they wanted to they could wipe that place off the map in an hour but whats always stopped their military is global public opinion due to civilian casualties. It doesn’t make sense for them to give Hamas political capitol by targeting civilians.
I absolutely agree some of their tactics have been brutal and civilian casualties are high but that’s true in every war.
Israel has been making major strides in creating friendly relations where possible in the region, especially with Jordan and Saudi Arabia - the last thing they need is a brutal conflict resulting in dead Muslims, however Muslim fundamentalists benefit greatly from Israel looking bad which is why it’s likely Iran and other groups have forced this conflict and planned it in a way that makes civilian casualties impossible to avoid.
I think there are probably better solutions than what’s currently happening, I have no idea what they would be though and everything I think of has either been tried or has obvious flaws.
Doesn’t offset the balance that much. I was generous with the 20:1 to account for that, the listed data is closer to 23.7:1. But yeah, who cares that Israel murdered plenty of Palestinian civilians over decades, they’re the bad guys anyway lol. B-b-but the attack!!!
Glad you found something you don’t like with the facts, so you can continue to support a far-right, nationalist government on their quest to genocide. I’m sure they will repay you for your valiant efforts. I’m also sure, the UN Office are just antisemites that willfully skew their statistics to make Israel look bad, you convinced me.
Special forces operations meticulously planned to clear out the tunnels, with both less lethal options and lethal options depending on whether resistance is armed or not.
Using precision munitions on verified targets instead of levelling entire blocks
Not turning off electricity to children’s hospitals
Not starving people
Even if you fully believe that Hamas should be and can be ripped out root and stem, cutting off electricity and food is completely inexcusable.
I never said cutting off electricity and food is necessary. I agree that precision strikes (with prior notification to civilians) are the preferred way to destroy military targets, but I also think Israel has the right to go in and remove Hamas permanently. This would also cause civilian casualties, but Hamas has shown it’s not an organization that can be allowed to exist
You mean the hospital that only had it’s parking lot hit and is still very much standing, not blown up? The one that Hamas claimed 500 people were killed at before photos showed a tiny crater and like 6 burned out cars? The one Hamas claimed Israel hit but more and more evidence seems to indicate it was a failed rocket from the PIJ? That hospital?
This is the problem. The fog of war is heavy and both sides are lying through their teeth.
Motherfucker there is more than one hospital in Gaza that was bombed. That’s why there was a plural. I don’t give two shits if they bombed this one specific hospital they’ve already admitted to bombing others, including schools, with chemical weapons like white phosphorus. How fucking dumb are you people?
And yes, dickhead, bombing ANY hospital regardless of how harmless it ended up being is a fucking war crime. Holy shit the military grade copium you need to defend Israel must be expensive. Fog of War is indeed a problem but this shit didn’t just start - Israel have been commiting acts of blatant genocide for decades and even if, somehow, this one specific hospital wasn’t their fault the other dozen were.
I do and I’m tired of pretending they didn’t. They bombed a handful of other ones so what dipshit is going to give them the benefit of the doubt? They’ve literally admitted to bombing other hospitals this isn’t even a fucking outlandish accusation. Hospitals and Schools. Fuck Israel.
“…inside and outside of Palestine” in case you thought this was just about Israel/Palestine and not about genocide against Jews. Keep in mind these people think all of Israel is Palestine.
These are bad people and you’re dumb for supporting them.
“Independent studies” You know I’d love to believe reporters not associated with the IDF but they kill those so, oops. Only IDF approved ones.
Let’s check out the before and after pictures of Gaza, since the IDF have those precision arms supplied by the US. Would be a fuckin shame if it looked like they just blew up buildings indiscriminately. Might even look like a genocide or something.
Why do you defend a country that violates the Geneva Convention? That thing a ton of countries signed to avoid human suffering during war? I guess since we’re dumping links lemme toss the one of them using . But don’t worry, I’m sure those kids were Hamas. Somehow.
This isn’t a genocide against Jews. They have Iron Dome defenses (fun fact about the Hamas attack is that the Iron Dome wasn’t as effective as it could have been because Israel keeps taking more fucking land from Palestine) which protect them. They have not been invaded or attacked by Palestine for decades and instead have been victimizing the poverty ridden children living in the Gaza strip. Their first reaction to the Hamas attack was to cut off electricity and water to all of Palestine. Everyone. They’re drinking dirty water because of the dogshit people YOU DEFEND.
These are bad people and you’re dumb retarded for supporting them.
Hamas has vowed for eternal war, they are fascists who say they will not accept Israel existence in any capacity. They start wars make all these threats and then when they die they go ‘oh look at the children’. A person with morals and strong intellect.can see they of course.these evil people will lie and flail in every disingenuous way. Truly disgusting people, threaten genocide all die and cry about any steps taken against them. The other Arab countries are much more severe with dissidents, they understand the mentality better
B) Israel isn’t committing genocide. If they were honestly attempting genocide right now, they’d provably be so laughably bad at it that no one should fear it
They are mowing them down en masse though. The reason more haven’t been killed is because they have shelters and tunnels to protect from the strikes. They have leveled whole villages, apartment towers holding hundreds of people, and struck routes specifically designated by the IDF as safe avenues for people to escape. The number killed is likely much higher than the reports we have seen, like after an earthquake or other disasters there are hundreds of people labeled ‘missing’ until they are more certain they are deceased.
How do you know this? Is it from the say people who said their was a hospital bombing ? They lie about everything. I’m not saying I know for sure but I am skeptical. It is possible some people were bombed but there are many many people who evacuated to the South
Because pals always lie, because all these Arab countries are propaganda regimes. They had hamas spokespeople on CNN and BBC saying things like civilians are were not targeted on 10/7. They tell the most ridiculous lies. Do you you also think North Korea are not liars, do you Believe the North Korean dictator for 18 holes in one at golf?
Great job on stereotyping an entire population of peoples as liars. 👍
And downplaying the loss of innocent lives to boot.
It is “possible” that some were bombed? I guess as long as only some innocent people were bombed everything is ok. After all “many many” were safely uprooted from their homes and evacuated south. Hooray…
I doubt this will sink in but I have to try. There have definitely been innocent lives lost from both sides of this conflict and every one of them is a tragedy. I’m not advocating for either side here because everyone involved in the loss of innocent lives sucks. I don’t have a magical solution either so don’t bother asking. Innocent people have already, and will continue to die in this conflict. Don’t try to make it seem like innocent casualties aren’t a big deal.
Preface: I do not know enough of this subject or conflict to speak authoritatively.
If they were told to leave their homes and take a certain path to avoid being bombed, trusted that advice but were bombed on the “safe” path anyway by the very people who told them they would be safe if they took said path, why should they continue to trust whoever told them that?
Furthermore, if there were bombs dropping on and/or around you no matter what you did or who you listened to, simply for existing in the wrong place and at no fault of your own, wouldn’t you rather at least be in the “comfort” of your own home?
I keep seeing this question and I’m in disbelief anyone is actually parroting this in good faith.
Not genocide? Can they not do genocide? There are a million different options to combat terrorism but right wing governments only know how to send in shock troops into civilian populations. Just because these assholes are assholes doesn’t mean this is the only option.
They don’t have the votes. I’m sure they would if they actually had a majority any of the last 3 years that didn’t compose “best we can do” folks like Manchin and Senima.
It’s almost like there’s an entire management philosophy our economy pushes that’s categorically suboptimal for and often at odds with making a solid, sustainable, and engineering-first organization.
The only thing “classical” business experts are good at is trying to find the quickest route to monetization. This pretty much never yields a product that actual helps people in a meaningful and consistent fashion in the long term.
Make a thing, and make it well, and it will sell itself. Boeing did this until they acquihired McDonnell Douglass leadership and transitioned their entire business model towards being “investor-first”… and that gave us delights like the 737 MCAS debacle (exacerbated, of course, by deregulation and poor auditing). They used to be one of the true paragons of American engineering. Now they’re just another profit über alles corporation.
Engineering-centric organizations need to focus a whole hell of a lot more on engineering ethics. These days, it’s mostly an afterthought.
That philosophy might hold water if we weren’t living in a world where products have to be designed to a price point for consumers. The highest quality engineered lamp will be outsold by orders of magnitude by the okay lamp that costs less than half as much. Not everyone makes airplanes.
That’s not what I’m saying. I’m not universally anti-capitalist. Someone who makes a useful thing is absolutely justified in trying to make it efficiently as possible, both in terms of capital as well as environmental considerations (edit: addendum here), as well as some compensation for their expertise, time, and effort, according to which and/or how many customers use it.
What I object to is the constant drive towards short-term benefit over long-term investment, almost always at the cost of user experience - or these days, more broadly the constant march towards enshitification.
Our current system of unbounded amoral, and largely unregulated capitalism is very obviously harmful and parasitic to our society in a holistic sense. Milton Friedman’s “shareholder value first” philosophy (which has become standard practice for most of the western world’s corporate governance) has been a cancer on our societies since the moment those words left his mouth.
Also, fuck the entire concept of omnipresent advertisements with a rusty pipe.
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