The ambulance apparently chose not to pass on the right in the lanes that were moving because of policy or something like that. I know where I live stopping where you are at is what you are supposed to do, so this one really seem slide it might be misleading anti self driving sensationalism.
It still has a long way to go, but stopping for emergency vehicles really sounds like it was working as designed to follow the laws.
Passing on the right drastically increases the likelihood of accidents for almost everyone involved. The (effective) blind spot on the left side of a vehicle versus the right side is tiny.
And while I won’t rule out different regions having different laws: To my knowledge, basically every single variation is “Pull off to the right side of the road unless the ambulance is right behind you and trying to turn right”. Just stopping where you are is a good way to force the emergency vehicle to slalom through traffic and increases the likelihood of degraded care (or even injury) in the back.
Which adds on to why an ambulance should generally not try to pass on the right. If a vehicle is stopped right in front of you, something is wrong. That means they are likely to open a door, suddenly accelerate and try to move over, etc. Its a decision, but it is one that adds delays. And even a slight delay can be fatal if you are at the point where you actually need an ambulance.
A human increases the odds of an accident drastically. Especially when they suddenly “come out of nowhere” while someone passing legally is trying to shift back right.
In this case? Someone is already clearly ignoring the rules of the road (if not the law). There is no guarantee they don’t end up sideswiping the ambulance, opening their door randomly, etc. Which results in more injuries… likely including the paramedics themselves.
Don’t they also send a signal of some kind, like a strobe at a particular frequency among their lights, that can be detected by (some) traffic lights to override them and turn them green? Maybe driverless cars should be able to percieve and react to this?
“Well, another lanes was moving so it could have gone around, also, if the patient had just taken an med flight helicopter this wouldn’t have happened.”
Like so what another lane is moving. Would the ambo have to back up and do a K turn to get around the glitched car?
Be interesting to see exactly what the traffic patterns looked like. There’s the set of driving regulations that generally say we should make way for emergency vehicles, but not if it requires ignoring another regulation. For example, if you’re stopped at a red light and an emergency vehicle approaches from behind, law says you wait for the light to turn green, then proceed when safe. Real drivers will run that light, hop a curb, make an illegal u-turn, etc. to make space, and nobodies going to get ticket for that, but it they are technically still violations.
I also think the comparison shouldn’t necessarily be against a typical driver, but a novice one, who doesn’t always respond correctly to an uncommon situation.
If ambulances were able and allowed to push other vehicles out of the way, then there would be a chance that Americans would leave a corridor in traffic jams to keep from getting shoved aside.
Definitely. Now that I think about it, a separate vehicle to do the shoving would save the patient from getting bumped around.
But then, there would need to be more ambulances following along to pick up people who get injured because all the imaginary cars getting shoved out of the way are occupied.
People get out of the way for emergency vehicles where I’m from. I’ve seen what you’re describing in NYC and I don’t really like being grouped with them.
I think the person above is referring to the law in Germany (and maybe other EU countries?) where if traffic slows to a stop on a highway everyone pulls to the side (right lane to the right, left lane to the left) to leave a corridor down the center just in case an emergency vehicle comes. It’s called Rettungsgasse.
This topic has come up at work several times. What’s funny is each time it does everyone gets excited about the possibility of it happening to them on a critical call.
Our ambulances are built on 4x4 capable F-350 chassis and we’re all union firefighters/medics. It feels like the 21st century version of “car blocking a hydrant”.
I think the problem is, that the system was set up on the assumption that you’d have to be a semi-reasonable person to end up as president. Like there are checks an balances set up to reign in your dictators and evil genius types, but they didn’t really account for a complete moron getting in there and just running hog wild.
It’s a bit like setting up a really elaborate security system to catch any kind of sneaky burglar, and then someone just flattens your house with a tank for no reason.
“Cruise’s Origin is a purpose-built electric AV, built with no steering wheel or pedals for a human driver.”
This isn’t the AIs fault. Driver-less vehicles are meant to have passengers. If they don’t, they should not be in traffic. The passengers should have the option to turn off auto-drive and get out of the way. Having a car without a steering wheel is like making a “fully-fully automatic gun: No trigger. It just shoots what it sees as people until it is out of bullets.”
Turning jail time into spending money looks a lot like fines being a cost of business. A CEO of a big company could just kill a child’s parents and not even feel the sting, as long as he’s drunk and his weapon is his car.
testified in court that the teen was a product of “affluenza” and was unable to link his actions with consequences because of his parents teaching him that wealth buys privilege
He only killed 4 people while drunk driving 乁 ˘ o ˘ ㄏ
Iirc most Texans were furious about that. As it turns out, his parents weren’t wrong, money does buy privilege! Sadly, Texas’ political system is so broken that even if every single person turned out to vote, the outcome likely wouldn’t change much.
In many parts of the US, not sure about Texas, child support is based on the parent(s)'(s) income/wealth. The same should apply here, but for the drunk driver’s income/wealth.
The spirit of the law would be to ensure that the change in the money available for the development of the child changes as little as possible after separation of the parents. Under that assumption, the killer would only have to provide as much as the victim would have if they had separated.
Why would that be the spirit of the law? If the parent suddenly started making more money, the kid would (probably) have more spent on raising them. Why would that same outcome not apply to the parent’s responsibility being suddenly replaced by person who makes more money?
It’s been shown the software is still not ready for production by interfering with emergency services, public transit, and normal traffic. These companies need to send these vehicles with a driver until the software is ironed out. We suspend human drivers for such actions. We must extend the same expectations and consequences to driverless vehicles.
If a human driver blocked an ambulance and caused a patient death, they’d be imprisoned for wrongful death. Cruise wants to roll out their software in this state, let them shoulder the legal and financial consequences.
The only thing more surprising than this monument’s existence is the fact that it took thirty years for people to actually notice and start making an issue of it.
Also, it’s a monument to Ukrainian soldiers who fought for the German endorsed military of Ukraine, serving with the SS. It’s a more complex story than just celebrating Nazi collaboration, because while they were definitely collaborators with the Nazis, they were doing so because they wanted a free and independent Ukraine and wanted to fight the USSR.
So, they’re recognizing these soldiers because they fought for Ukrainian independence, not because the people supporting Ukrainian independence at the time were the Germans.
To be clear a lot of the Ukrainians serving in those units were aligned intellectually with the Nazis. It’s a complex story, you know. Not all a good one.
I had no idea Ukraine’s history until Moscow invaded them over a year ago. Since then I’ve learned a lot about Ukrainian history, which helps immensely provide better context in an area I otherwise would know very little. Still not an expert, but when you know more of the complexities like you mentioned, it helps to show the bigger picture so things end up making more sense. Thanks again.
It’s like Americans celebrating the people who founded that country, even the slaveowners. They’re not celebrating that part of the life of the founders, and it certainly colors the perception of people like Thomas Jefferson, speaking noble ideals about freedom while owning and sometimes raping his slaves.
These are people who fought for Ukrainian independence. That’s something to celebrate, even if it’s tainted by who they fought for and with, and at times, what their personal beliefs were surrounding issues like race and religion.
This is a complicated historical topic to Ukrainians. It’s not them celebrating Nazi collaboration.
I’ve met plenty of Ukrainians, it’s literally too common (notably more than for Russians in general, which is already an achievement) for them to ascribe personal traits to genes and thus characterize whole peoples as good or bad (I’m not doing that now, cause I’m talking about society and education). I mean, really, it irritates you.
The issue is that their idea of nationalism is not yet separate from typical Nazi one. Just much more moderate. It shows in various more nuanced conversations on ethnic conflicts, state policies on minorities, centralism, civil rights etc.
They also willingly participated in mass murders of civilian population (Jewish and Polish). By “free and independent” the narrative also stuffs this.
So no, whoever put that there knew very well whom they are celebrating. They are just fine with ethnic cleansing for some perceived benefit of their nation.
Which can be shortened to “a memorial to Nazi collaborators”, which is the title.
Except they’re not celebrating Nazi collaboration. They’re recognizing people who fought and died for Ukrainian independence. However tainted that struggle is by the people they fought for and with, and even sometimes the actions of those armies, it’s not them celebrating or recognizing Nazi collaboration. It’s a recognition of the fight for independence.
To me, this is like recognizing Thomas Jefferson’s contributions to the founding of the US. Is someone who makes that recognition endorsing slavery and rape? No, they’re not. Because he’s a more complicated historical figure than just a random slaver and rapist, and it’s hard to tell the story of the foundation of the US without talking about his positive contributions.
I’m as anti-NAZI as the next guy, but I swear some people have no idea of the nuances of history. I am sure we will start to get a rash of people protesting against Finland soon. We sided with the Soviets because of the convenience of a common enemy, AFTER they had invaded and partitioned and annexed half of Poland right beside the NAZI Germany. The invasion of Poland is what kicked off WWII btw. After the war, the West almost immediately entered into the Cold War with the USSR.
I get it, this is an SS squad, and they contributed to atrocities of NAZI Germany, but I can understand some Ukrainians considering them to be freedom fighters against the Soviets, especially in 2023. It is also a memorial in a church cemetery, and not a statue of Lee in the middle of a town square. A debate is warranted, but I hope some people will learn a little bit more about how history is not black and white with the conversation.
This is about one particular unit with history of war crimes. Different national legions of Wehrmacht and even Waffen SS have different record. I’m aware of some not so bad.
but I can understand some Ukrainians considering them to be freedom fighters against the Soviets, especially in 2023
I can agree that some “forest brothers” in1960s really were freedom fighters. But these guys - sure as hell not.
And Zelenskyy agrees with you. Any part they had in torching Polish villages or other atrocities are horrendous.
To be honest, i am a bit conflcted about it all. This wasn’t a statue put up to help bolster segregation 100 years after the fact, and I just wanted to point out that the Ukrainian struggle for independence has been ongoing and real, regardless of how ugly it may look. It is stuff like this that is fueling the propaganda of Russian’s invasion as an attempt to de-nazify Ukraine.
It is stuff like this that is fueling the propaganda of Russian’s invasion as an attempt to de-nazify Ukraine.
Wanted to say that nah, that’s not really a working mechanism… But suppose some people buy it. What even then, we should just whitewash crimes because recognizing them may strengthen propaganda in some particular case?
Hope not, but de-nazifing Ukraine is still a prevalent talking point. It is also interesting to me this monument is only becoming an issue now.
War is hell and there are evils always perpetuated on both sides (and i hate both sides arguments! Sorry!). I do believe intentions are important too, especially as in war people usually need to choose between the lesser of evils, which again comes with their own perspective. Being told as a Ukrainian you would only “fight the Bolsheviks” seems like it could have seen as a pretty good deal, especially when combined with the naive thought that supporting the Nazi effort could lead to an independent Ukraine. Again, naive but understandable. When focused on that perspective, and with consideration that they were separated from much of the rest of the SS in being charged with war crimes, I am a little more sympathetic. How many towns and villages did the US burn in WWII and in other wars? Sherman’s March to the Sea? Should we tear down those memorials too? I’d rather not know some of the shit my father did in the Vietnam War on behalf of the US government, but I can’t bring myself to curse his service. He just married an amazing Ukrainian woman a few years ago too…
It’s easy to just jump to conclusions. No, don’t whitewash history, but having a more nuanced perspective I think is important. To be clear, I would be right there with a pitchfork if this was a monument to the Dirlewanger or Kaminski Brigades.
Finland was a democratic country that the Soviet Union invaded, and they cooperated with the later Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union.
That seems more akin to the US allying with Stalin against Germany. They were allies of strategic convenience and it didn’t mean that the US approved of Stalin, gulags, etc.
By contrast, this was a group in German- occupied Ukraine who enlisted in the literal SS. History isn’t black and white, but at best this is a very dark shade of grey.
I can’t say anything about Graeco-Catholic or just Catholic Ukrainians in the USA, but most Ukrainians from ex-USSR I’ve met celebrate both. They’re just kinda modest with the Nazi part, but they are fine with it, and see it as something naughty all big boys have done, not to boast about, but important. They do have a problem as a nation.
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