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Cleverdawny

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Cleverdawny ,

I think this is mostly evidence of Clinton preferring George Latimer. Endorsing someone is just saying that you like them for the job. I’m sure Bowman has endorsements, too.

…or is the point that Rep Bowman should be immune from primary challenges because he’s black?

Bowman is the guy who got censured by the House for that dumb fire alarm incident. Now he’s calling Latimer racist, and for what reason? Latimer seems like a very boring politician, not a klansman.

Cleverdawny ,

When Latimer said Bowman is an “ineffective Congressman” because he argues too much, Bowman interrupted to say that he is “passionate.”

But Latimer responded, “You need to talk to them as normal people — you can’t preach and scream at them on the steps of the Capitol.”

Jamaal Bowman is known as one of the more firebrand politicians out there. Running against that is fair game, and pretending fair criticism of him is racism seems dishonest as fuck to me.

Cleverdawny ,

Why is he responsible for the statements of some random donor? I don’t know why he would need to address those comments, it seems like some activists ambushed some random person on the street and she said something which wasn’t focus grouped and sounded bad. If she runs for office I guess she should address them.

but he chose “argues too much” and “scream at”, then said he should talk “like normal people”.

This is a common argument against progressives from moderates, of whatever race or gender or religion. You can not like that argument, but the fact that it’s used commonly against the populist left kinda detracts from the “oh, this is a dog whistle”

Cleverdawny ,

This woman doesn’t seem like a Nazi lol

I literally just explained why this was a problem,

And I disagree. You haven’t actually shown me any evidence that he’s a racist. The best you’ve done is show me a statement by some random donor (???) who made a statement when ambushed by combative activists that was awkward. Whoop de fucking doo

Cleverdawny ,

Dude she’s a random civilian

Why do you care

Cleverdawny ,

That’s a lot of words which don’t go to answer the question as to why the candidate has to answer for the supposed racism of one of his donors. I’m sure if we looked long enough we could find some donor of Bowman who has posted something calling for some nasty activities. But nobody does, because everyone understands that a politician isn’t responsible for the views of individuals who happen to vote for him unless he has solicited their endorsement specifically and celebrated that endorsement publicly.

Cleverdawny ,

They’re killing Russians, so their historical political leanings don’t really matter.

Cleverdawny ,

Besides, is killing Russians a good thing?

Yes.

Cleverdawny ,

Without giving a reason? They’re invaders. If they go home they won’t be subject to killing.

Cleverdawny ,

All of that is implied, dude

Cleverdawny ,

I’ll take them off of Denmark’s hands

Cleverdawny ,

If they don’t like the efforts of the US to give aid to a people who hate us, then I guess we could stop

Cleverdawny ,

The current situation mostly has to do with the consistent history of Arab aggression regarding any possible Jewish state.

Cleverdawny ,

Countries aren’t houses and your analogy is fatally flawed. I’ll write you a better one.

Let’s say I live in a neighborhood. New people move into this neighborhood, people who say their ancestors used to live here. Fine, whatever, the HOA let them in and I’m fine with it.

Enough of these people move into this neighborhood and have a different enough culture that they decide they want to form their own HOA.

What is my appropriate response to this situation? Should I negotiate which houses belong to the new HOA and which to the old? Or should I decide that the best thing to do is to violently kick all those people out of the neighborhood and shoot anyone who wants a new HOA?

Because the second thing is 1948. Arabs declared war, lost and lost badly, and have been trying to unwind the consequences of their belligerence ever since - usually with more belligerence.

Cleverdawny ,

Also, in your analogy, these people are somehow magically just moving in as if space and housing is freely available

This is exactly how Jews immigrated to mandatory Palestine. They bought houses or land and moved in.

Also, why should the original neighbors have to negotiate with a group of people who moved in against their will

They have the choice to negotiate or not, but if they choose war and lose, then their lot is to reckon with the consequences of their actions. Vae victus, as the Gauls said to the Romans.

Besides all of that, if we just take the history out of it completely, and just look at the last 8 months: does Israel seem to you like a sane nation

Not entirely. It seems like a nation which has been radicalized by decades of failures at peace initiatives and the same decades of unrelenting violence directed at their civilians. But at least they didn’t start the war in Gaza.

Cleverdawny ,

Ideally, Israel would agree to end the blockade and withdraw from Gaza. Hamas would resign from office and be replaced by some form of responsible administration which will not permit using Gaza as a base for violent attacks against Israel. The international community could contribute to the rebuilding of Gaza, and without war and with responsible administrators in charge, Gaza could begin to have some forms of an economy.

I do not think democracy in Gaza would be a good idea, as they’d just elect another government like Hamas and then we would be back at the prospect of war in the region. Perhaps some sort of administration appointed by the Arab League.

Maybe, if there was peace long enough, they could even resume guest worker programs so Palestinians could commute to Israel for work.

I don’t like Israel or the Netanyahu administration. They’re right wing nationalists who aren’t really devoted to peace. And I’d like to see something like the 2005 disengagement from Gaza happening in the West Bank, but I don’t think that lovely daydream will happen given all the violence coming from Gaza since then.

But the reason I tend to favor Israel over Palestine is, well, they haven’t been the ones starting these wars. Even if they’re dickheads, they’re dickheads who have historically at least been open to peace or willing to accept peace.

My best friend is Egyptian. I don’t think this conflict is ever going to go away, truly. So much of it really is rooted in a pervasive sentiment of antisemitism pervasive throughout the Arab world. But if an appropriately capable and interested leader took office and could control the population of Gaza while refusing to allow jihadis to seek the death of Jews, we could have peace.

Cleverdawny ,

lmao

Cleverdawny ,

🐴

Middle East Crisis: Blinken Calls Some Hamas Changes to Cease-Fire Proposal ‘Unacceptable’ (www.nytimes.com)

Speaking at a news conference in Doha, Qatar, alongside Qatar’s prime minister and minister of foreign affairs, Mohammed bin Abdulrahman Al Thani, Mr. Blinken said that “a deal was on the table that was virtually identical” to one that Hamas put forward on May 6....

Cleverdawny ,

Why is it hard to believe that the people who started this war don’t actually want it to end

Cleverdawny ,

Whatever you need to tell yourself to justify your thirst for blood I guess

Cleverdawny ,

The answer is that the more death and suffering they can cause to civilian Palestinians, the more they can drive a cultural wedge between Israel and the Arab nations. Their end goal here is to get a friendly government in, say, Egypt and then win a war to conquer Israel with that foreign support.

Cleverdawny ,

Says the individual trying to pretend that this is a genocide and blaming the defender for the war lol

TIL allowing thousands of calories of food aid in per person per day is “withholding food”

Words don’t mean anything any more. Up is down, black is white, and feeding civilians is genocide

Cleverdawny ,

One person does not mean millions of calories per day, they need thousands. I believe the total food aid allowed into Gaza is around 3000 calories per person per day.

GeNoCiDe

Cleverdawny ,

The math doesn’t add up. If Gazans are receiving 245 calories a day and about half the food trucks they need, then either the former or the latter is incorrect. LMAO

But really, Gaza should have probably thought about how to feed their own populace before starting a war of aggression. It’s not exactly Israel’s job to feed a hostile populace which declared war on them. I’m simply glad that they’re allowing food trucks in. It’s better than most would have done and empowers their enemies.

Cleverdawny ,

There hasn’t been a sovereign and native state on that land since the Roman conquest of Judea lmfao

Cleverdawny ,

Dude that’s what they’ve said their goal is. Take your head out of your ass

Cleverdawny ,

Okie dokie I guess

That’s still what Hamas says their goals are lol

It’s why they started this war. They wanted to head off Saudi normalization of relations with Israel

Cleverdawny ,

So your position is that it’s more legitimate for someone to live there because their ancestors moved there under the Ottomans rather than people whose ancestors lived there before the Romans and moved back under the British?

I don’t give a fuck about any of that. What I care about is that the Jewish militias were happy to accept sharing the land with a Palestinian state, while the Palestinians decided that any possible Israeli state was unacceptable and declared war.

The entire conflict stems from their inability to accept peaceful coexistence.

Cleverdawny ,

Once again, we have “propaganda is when someone disagrees with me”

Cleverdawny ,

Arab leaders are smart enough to know that attacking Israel would either lead to defeat or nuclear annihilation, and so, seek peace. Regardless of the wishes of the populace.

Cleverdawny ,

CoLlEcTiVe PuNiShMeNt

Don’t start wars. Wars are bad. Fuck Hamas and fuck anyone who supported them. I wish their kids had parents who gave a shit about them.

Cleverdawny ,

Yes, the response to Israel doing something is indeed always more severe than when any other country does it.

As to war crimes, I’ve never seen any evidence of intentional targeting of civilians as a matter of policy. I’ve seen evidence of individual soldiers doing that, and that’s happened in every war. It’s why war is bad, and you shouldn’t start wars.

There is not a single country on this planet which would tolerate an organization like Hamas remaining in power after an event like Oct 7.

Cleverdawny ,

That’s always where this was going to end. That future was written on Oct 7. The only question is, how much pain it takes to get there.

It’s obvious that the Israelis view their withdrawal and end of occupation in Gaza as a mistake and that it’s time for them to undo that mistake

Cleverdawny ,

Agreed

Cleverdawny ,

Liberals: this is a difficult situation and it’s not one which has an easy solution

Communists: genocide is an easy solution lol

Cleverdawny ,

Capitalism is the worst way to run an economy. Except, of course, all other ways which have been tried.

Cleverdawny ,

“it’s slavery when I work for money” ok clown

Cleverdawny ,

Except that at those times, you could absolutely compare slave economies to non slave economies, and the non slave economies were healthier

It’s why during the civil war, the north was so much more powerful than the south

Turns out that if you stifle the potential of half your population, lock them in bondage, and assign a significant portion of the rest to watching them, it’s not very efficient. It’s better to just pay people, even discarding the abominable immorality of slavery and focusing on just economic efficiencies.

Cleverdawny ,

The health ministry

(Hamas)

Cleverdawny ,

If a hospital is being used as a staging point for military forces, it’s a legitimate military target. That’s why militarizing hospitals is wrong.

Cleverdawny ,

So you admit that they are legitimate targets.

Cleverdawny ,

This is why it’s a war crime to use hospitals as military bases. And ambulances as military transports.

Cleverdawny ,

The point is that militarizing emergency equipment causes civilian casualties by turning medical facilities into legitimate military targets

Cleverdawny ,

What?

Yeah if somehow Al Qaeda turned the world trade center into a military base it would be a military target.

Cleverdawny ,

If the hospital is a military base, it makes sense that supplies would be cut off to it.

There’s no way to escape the fact that war is terrible. But we do have things called the rules of war which brings the horrible nature of it down a couple notches. Driving around military forces under a red cross is a war crime, pure and simple, for exactly this reason - if a military force doesn’t have the honor to respect the sanctity of lifesaving medical care, then they’re going to make every medical center into a potential target for attack.

I am not a fan of everything Israel has done, but they’re clearly the better people in this scenario.

Cleverdawny ,

Not if it is also a hospital. Then cutting off supplies is fucking disgusting

And necessary. This is why turning hospitals into military bases is a war crime. If you’re offended at military actions taken against hospitals, talk to Hamas about it.

They are doing a genocide

See, you’re deluding yourself into pretending they’re genocidal. That’s the difference here. I live in reality.

Cleverdawny ,

Dude they did a fucking video tour of a military base built into a hospital, do you seriously not know anything at all about this topic?

Also no they’re not the better perks here, they’ve killed ten times as many civilians

You say this as of Hamas’s casualty figures they relate via the Gaza health ministry mean anything. Hell, they probably include the people Hamas has killed to prevent them from fleeing the conflict zone.

Cleverdawny ,

The question was pretty stupid, but I thought I’d still answer it. There’s no way a foreign power would be able to build a hostile military base on US soil

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