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Ascend910 ,

I just want Taiwan to reunify with China, unfortunately no party in us supports that :(

SkunkWorkz ,

426

feedum_sneedson ,

必须旗帜鲜明地反对动乱

Luminocta ,

Taiwan number one!

Ascend910 ,

Number one province under Beijing

Luminocta ,

You wish! You guys are jealous the Taiwanese are better at being a country than you. So the only logical thing to do is take them down to your level to feel better about yourselves. Taiwan number one!

Ascend910 ,

Taiwan is a province of China and has always been so. You are just an ignorant westerner who knows nothing about history or international relations. Your government only supports Taiwan because they need a useful tool to annoy China, not because they care about the welfare of the Taiwanese people. They would abandon you in a heartbeat if it served their interests elsewhere. But don’t worry, I’m sure the Chinese will take good care of them once they liberate that little island from its fake independence movement.

Luminocta ,

My government, which you know nothing about clearly, is at the very least not an oppressive bully that is China. Taiwan number one!

boatsnhos931 ,

Can I use your Temu discount

hungryphrog ,

please tell me this isn’t serious

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Good to know Democrats aren’t interested in winning the left vote anymore

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/52cb35d3-a138-4d57-8af5-33d7838cca6c.jpeg

TheRealKuni ,

Leftists - making progress the enemy of perfection and fucking themselves over since always.

Diva ,
@Diva@lemmy.ml avatar

Biden still owes me $600

TokenBoomer ,

Damn right he does.

anticurrent ,

I see the coping, Biden is cooked and the election is Lost.

Liberals are self-infecting a loss, and are blindingly running into a wall, the smack will be heard from outer space.

SoleInvictus ,

I think what will DEFINITELY help is all the immature passive aggression, like this post, that manifests when anyone dares to suggest they might have an issue they need to fix.

/s, in case that wasn’t clear

AFC1886VCC ,

Biden supporters on the Internet are the worst thing that could happen to Biden… and they say Tankies are doing Trump’s work for him

joenforcer ,

“Biden wins the election. Here’s why that’s bad for Biden.”

boatsnhos931 ,

Jesus has my vote…no not him! Jesus Gonzalez from Colombia…He did my cabinets and all I can say is…WELL WOULD YOU JUST LOOK AT THAT

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/47ae61f7-4b36-4b8d-be46-595d43a0b0ca.jpeg

01101000_01101001 ,

Sometimes you just hafta look at it

Croquette ,

What is that from? Just reading what you wrote cracked me up.

boatsnhos931 ,

youtu.be/EF8GhC-T_Mo?feature=shared

Croquette ,

This is great haha. Thanks for the link

DAMunzy ,

Your ignorant use of tankies is what bothers me the most. I already knew you’d vote dumbly no matter what, Blue MAGA. 🙄

DAMunzy ,

Your ignorant use of tankies is what bothers me the most. I already knew you’d vote dumbly no matter what, Blue MAGA. 🙄

febra ,

Yeah… sure. Not a tankie, I’m European and don’t care about influencing you to vote for one or another. But after seeing Biden “debate” Trump I know the dems are fucked. I mean sure, still go out and vote, but I honestly don’t see many people doing so.

OsrsNeedsF2P ,

Absolutely go vote. Tell everyone you know to vote. Don’t vote for Trump. But for the love of god, if you’re otherwise not going to vote, at least vote third party.

Juice ,

They’re…from Europe.

OsrsNeedsF2P ,

I’m referring to other readers

RizzRustbolt ,

Vote down-ticket. Especially for state level Secretary of State and Attorney General candidates. That’s how we’re going to get ranked choice voting in more states

Socsa ,

It’s honestly extremely sad that the primary requirement to be a leader is “ability to speak perfectly on stage for 2 hours.”

vonbaronhans ,

Yeah it’s not great, but like… coming across as coherent is important no matter the position. Biden kinda failed that basic competency test, probably just due to his age and not like, stupidity or a personal failing of any kind. I’m still voting for Biden, but yeah it’s not exactly an enthusiastic vote.

BluesF ,

It should be a basic requirement of literally any public office. That fact that we have got this far baffles me utterly.

chakan2 ,
@chakan2@lemmy.world avatar

The Dems are intentionally throwing it. It’s the only thing that makes sense at this point. The “Not Trump” donations are lucrative, and there’s no way the R’s will make insider trading illegal.

This might be the spark we need for a legitimate progressive party though. Or we get a civil war, who knows.

RadioFreeArabia ,

No one minds you voting for Biden believe it or not. We do mind being demonized and straw-personed for not voting for him.

Socsa ,

Sure, if you are comfortable with the moral liability of fascism them we probably don’t get along.

cumskin_genocide ,

I’m fine with the moral liability of supporting genocide. That’s why I’m voting for Biden.

vonbaronhans ,

So, speaking from a purely pragmatic perspective, voting for Biden is better than other US electoral choices for the purpose of trying to help Palestinians.

I understand your reticence and moral indignation, I largely feel the same.

But the biggest reason Trump won in 2016 is because voters were not particularly enthused with their choices, and a great many decided not voting at all (or voting for Trump as a protest against the establishment) was preferable to voting for HRC.

I have to imagine that we both believe that Trump is worse than Biden when it comes to the Israel-Palestine conflict.

Given that we’re already in election year, it’s down to Biden and Trump. One of them is going to be president come January next year.

Taking all that together, if we want things to get better for Palestine, we should vote for Biden because the alternatives are much worse.

Granted there is a lot you can do outside of elections to help, and I wouldn’t recommend ignoring those. But given that voting for the US president takes a few hours out of one day every four years, it’s not a good idea to ignore that either.

I hope this helps you understand those of us who don’t really like Biden but will vote for him regardless.

suction ,

Well said, „Radio Free Arabia“ 😂

pastabatman ,

Do you understand why you are being demonized though? You’re making a choice that is purely symbolic just so you feel better, but real and vulnerable people across the country have to deal with the fallout.

You want to make a difference? Great! There’s a lot of ways to do that. Campaign and fundraise at the local and state level. Push for election reform, ranked choice voting, end to gerrymandering, term limits, electoral college reform, curtail lobbying… any number of things, and push for them more often than once every four years. Voting third party in a presidential election does NOT help.

If you want my respect, acknowledge the reality of the situation and vote for the best option (or the least bad option) among the viable candidates and then work for change within the system. It sucks that we are in this situation, but make a choice grounded in the real world, not a fake ideal world.

HomerianSymphony ,

You’re making a choice that is purely symbolic just so you feel better

If voting third-party were purely symbolic, there wouldn’t be this many people on Lemmy trying to persuade us to not do it.

I think Biden does want our vote. And we’re telling him that if he wants our vote, he has to stop the genocide. That’s how we can use our vote to influence the government. That’s how democracy is supposed to work.

but real and vulnerable people across the country have to deal with the fallout

There are real and vulnerable people dying in Gaza right now because of what Biden is doing.

PrettyFlyForAFatGuy ,

and that stops when trump wins because you voted for some 3rd party nobody… right?

HomerianSymphony ,

Is that supposed to persuade me to vote for Biden? “But Trump will do genocide too.”

Yeah, and that’s why I’m not supporting Trump either.

I am a single issue voter, and that issue is genocide. And frankly, I’m disappointed that more people aren’t single issue voters when it comes to genocide.

PrettyFlyForAFatGuy , (edited )

Yeah, and that’s why I’m not supporting Trump either.

but you are, because you’re not voting biden in a two horse race.

They call it first past the post for a reason. you’re voting for some cunt still in the stable

I am a single issue voter, and that issue is genocide.

Genocides happening either way. you sitting home and sulking about it wont make it better.

Life is too complex to be a single issue. There is more than a single issue facing the world

HomerianSymphony ,

Here’s a puzzle for you. A group of three men go to a hotel, and they each pay $10 for a room, for a total of $30. Afterwards, the manager remembers that there’s a deal where you can get 3 rooms for $25, so he gives $5 to the bellboy and tells the bellboy to return it to the men. But the bellboy returns just $1 to each of the men, and pockets the remaining $2.

So the men each paid $9, for a total of $27. The bellboy pocketed $2. Where did the other dollar go?

HomerianSymphony ,

And the answer is that “Where did the other dollar go?” is a nonsensical question when you understand the situation correctly. But a lot of people who first hear it don’t understand the situation correctly.

Likewise, “You’re helping Trump by voting third-party” is a nonsensical when you understand the situation correctly, but many people don’t at first understand the situation correctly.

pastabatman ,

Are you sure we don’t understand it correctly? Trump won in 2016 in part due to the righteous indignation of people that refused to vote for Clinton. Third party spoiler candidates are not a new phenomenon.

HomerianSymphony ,

Trump won in 2016 in part due to the righteous indignation of people that refused to vote for Clinton.

And would those people have suddenly switched to Clinton if no third-party candidate was available?

pastabatman ,

Most probably wouldn’t have voted at all but that doesn’t change the math. In a US presidential election, voting third party and not voting at all are equivalent in every practical sense.

HomerianSymphony , (edited )

Right. So, part of the problem with “Voting third-party means supporting Trump” is that it presumes I would have otherwise voted for Biden.

And I wouldn’t have. Because he’s committing genocide.

Also, when third-party candidates start to get traction, they can pull votes away from Trump as well as Biden.

And if enough people vote third-party, we can start to defeat both Trump and Biden. Even small amounts of support for third-party candidates can lead to a third-party winning seats in congress if that support is concentrated in particular districts, like college towns. And in an evenly divided congress, a few seats can control the balance of power and have a big impact.

TokenBoomer ,

It’s an informal fallacy.

HomerianSymphony ,

Genocides happening either way. you sitting home and sulking about it wont make it better.

Be this guy: www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/…/be_this_guy/

pastabatman ,

Good for that guy. His beliefs were just and moral. He didn’t have any options though. Hitler and the Nazis were already in power.

You have an option. You’re acting like you’re brave just like this guy but I bet he wished more people voted for the candidate that wasn’t Hitler.

HomerianSymphony ,

In our case, Biden and Trump are both Hitler because they’re both supporting a genocide. The crowd in that photo are a mix of Democrats and Republicans, and that guy is the people saying “I won’t support either of you”.

pastabatman ,

They aren’t both Hitler though. One is unquestionably worse than the other even if you only look at that single issue. One of them WILL be the next president whether you like it or not. You can have a say in who that will be, or you can go with righteous indignation and let the worse option win by default.

HomerianSymphony ,

It’s not righteous indignation. It’s making difficult moral decisions according to one’s conscience.

I’m aware there could be consequences if Trump wins. But I will not let fear for my own safety steer me towards supporting a genocide.

Like that guy. Who, according to reports, was punished for his failure to salute by being put into penal military service, where he was killed.

Be that guy means be that guy.

pastabatman ,

It absolutely is righteous indignation. You aren’t in the same situation as that guy and you aren’t being brave. Palestinians in Gaza will not be thanking you if Trump becomes president.

HomerianSymphony , (edited )

I’m not in the same situation as that guy. I am not claiming to be brave. I’m a little worried (like we all are), but my life is not in imminent danger.

But I am trying to do the right thing, and I hope that if things get worse and I do end up in a situation like that man that I will be brave and continue to do the right thing. That’s the lesson I’m taking from him.

Draedron ,

You are supporting Trump by wasting your vote.

Jimmyeatsausage ,

If there were a “no genocide” candidate that could win, making that a single issue would matter. Biden supports Israel despite their actions in Gaza… which he has publicly stated he doesn’t agree with and has taken concrete, if underwhelming, steps to try and stop. Trump has shown us during his previous administration and told us recently that he will support Israel harder and will likely take steps to decrease the resistance to the Palestinian genocide if not outright accelerate it. He’ll also accelerate Russian aggression in Ukraine and likely would ignore our Article 5 responsibilities when Putin advances farther into Europe. I’ll assume you’re familiar with the policy differences on climate and how climate change impacts poor regions (like Gaza) more than it impacts affluent ones like the US (and even we’re getting our asses kicked by climate change this year). You can vote to take a moral stand, or you can vote for desired outcomes. The people trying to convince you not to vote 3rd party are trying to convince you to vote for a desired outcome. There is presently no likely outcome that gives us a non-Biden, non-Trump administration for the next 4 years. Based on that fact, we want to maximize the likelihood of the best availa le outcome. That’s what we’re asking…to think about what the world looks like for the people you care about under Biden and compare those outcomes to what it will look like under Trump and vote based on those outcomes. The time to find the ideal candidate is at the beginning of a presidential term, not the end of one.

You can bet your ass most of us are including the ongoing genocide in our voting decision, we’ve just thought about it enough to know our options aren’t between “stopping genocide” and “continuing genocide”, the choice is between “resisting” (aka, the status quo) or “accelerating”.

HomerianSymphony ,

If there were a “no genocide” candidate that could win, making that a single issue would matter.

But voting is valuable even if your candidate doesn’t win. It’s about having your desires counted on the public record.

If politicians see that they’re losing votes to anti-genocide third-party candidates, they’ll take notice.

pastabatman ,

It’s about having your desires counted on the public record.

Get your desires on the public record in local and state elections and primaries where it might actually matter. For a US presidential election it’s an entirely empty gesture that makes you and only you feel better. No policies will change. No causes will be advanced. History will not remember you. It is very likely, however, that will make the lives of vulnerable people inside and outside of this country worse by giving trump a second term.

HomerianSymphony ,

No policies will change. No causes will be advanced.

Or, maybe politicians will see that they’re losing votes to anti-genocide third-party candidates, and their policies will change.

And if not, then we don’t have a democracy anyway. If it’s not possible for the USA to cease its support for genocide, then this is not a liberal democracy, and this is certainly not the leader of the free world.

What happened to “never again”? Never again is now and all I’m hearing is “eh, what can you do?”.

Draedron ,

If you care so much for palestine you vote Biden. Its either Biden or Trump and Trump would flatten gaza to get even more settlements named after him.

assassin_aragorn ,

If voting third-party were purely symbolic, there wouldn’t be this many people on Lemmy trying to persuade us to not do it

This is a logical fallacy. If lighting myself on fire as protest were purely symbolic, then why are all of my friends persuading me to not do it?

Sometimes people trying to convince/persuade you against something isn’t because you actually have a point – but because your ideas will lead to harm.

HomerianSymphony ,

You’re gonna need a better example, because people lighting themselves on fire played a tremendous role in ending popular support for America’s occupation of Vietnam during the Vietnam War.

It’s the last thing I would describe as “symbolic”.

assassin_aragorn ,

Did it? My understanding is that the draft and footage of their children dying in war is what reshaped the public opinion.

Genuinely asking though, it was before my time.

HomerianSymphony ,

There were self-immolations in Vietnam that were protests against the US-backed puppet government in Vietnam.

It wasn’t the only thing that shaped public opinion about the war, but it did have a big impact.

You can read a bit about it here:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thích_Quảng_Đức

assassin_aragorn ,

Thanks!

chakan2 ,
@chakan2@lemmy.world avatar

If you want my respect

I don’t.

Voting for the stunt double from weekend at Bernie’s does not grant you superiority.

Most of us have been voting in the primaries and are involved in local politics. It didn’t matter. The R/D machine drowns out all opposition to its duopoly.

Biden will not win this election. Democracy died while he confusedly stared into the camera for 6 seconds. Beyond that, he fumbled his closing statement which should disqualify from any public speaking position.

Trump is inevitable. We did all we could to get an alternative to Biden, but his hubris will destroy us.

pastabatman ,

So your solution is to give up and throw your vote away? I’m glad you didn’t want my respect because you didn’t get it.

A literal corpse being paraded around for four years like Weekend at Bernie’s would still be a better choice than Trump. He attempted a coup to invalidate the will of the people and maintain power, sent a mob to attack the Capitol building, and has been charged with 91 felony counts in four jurisdictions just for stuff he did while in office and as a candidate (convicted of 34 and counting).

But democracy died when an old man showed signs of being old? Not all that other stuff? Yeah, I’m voting for Biden. Easiest decision of my life. You should too.

chakan2 ,
@chakan2@lemmy.world avatar

You can argue until you’re blue in the face over there. Biden lost the election with that debate. He didn’t do anything he needed to do this term to protect democracy as we know it and the Supreme Court sealed the R’s final solution today.

It’s over man…game over. Congratulations…your support of the status quo ended Democracy.

In short, yea, I’m perfectly fine not having your respect.

Draedron ,

You vote for fascism if you dont vote for him so you deserve it.

01101000_01101001 ,

Is this loss?

archomrade ,

https://midwest.social/pictrs/image/3820e57b-6f95-4de3-882d-42d6426d0f1f.jpeg

SpaceCowboy ,
@SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

I mean the alternative is literally fascism. Not the silly internet “fascism” that’s just about someone that disagrees with you that you perceive is right of you on some silly made up political spectrum. Actual full blown fascism.

So yeah you need to vote for Joe Biden.

UnderpantsWeevil OP ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

I mean the alternative is literally fascism.

Fascism or Fascism Lite. Take your pick.

SpaceCowboy ,
@SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

Fascism Lite: silly internet “fascism” that’s just about someone that disagrees with you that you perceive is right of you on some silly made up political spectrum.

Delusional ,

Well when the only other vote is fascism, hate, and bullying… Yeah we’re gonna vote for the not ridiculous choice.

noxy ,
@noxy@yiffit.net avatar

Pepe is dead. Stop.

mrgreyeyes ,

Nearly dead memes for nearly death people!

I do support the message though!

win95 ,
@win95@lemmy.zip avatar

The creator of pepe declared him dead

SleezyDizasta ,

That is beyond meaningless. Pepe has no owner. It is a symbol of the internet culture and it’s not going away any time soon.

win95 ,
@win95@lemmy.zip avatar

Agreed but I do like the lore of pepe technically truly being dead because of his fascist undertone nowadays. Kinda funny.

SleezyDizasta ,

This is only true if you think it’s true. Pepe serves as a template for internet culture and can have anything projected on to it. Pepe has been used to push evil views like Marxism and Fascism to pragmatic views like universal healthcare and freedom of the press to non political things like complaining about video games and the weather.

Socsa ,

Maybe we don’t associate Biden with fascism frog

AngryCommieKender ,

If we let the fascists claim any symbol they want, we will have nothing left.

Pepe was just a depressed frog boi. Pepe is only fascist if we let the fascists win

noxy ,
@noxy@yiffit.net avatar

Go ahead and get a few swastika tattoos then

Schadrach ,

I used to joke back in 2014 that if Milo Yian-whatever, Ben Shapiro and Gavin McInnes just had a biweekly meeting and decided on a hand sign, an image and a word to use heavily in social media for the following month that everything could be made into a dogwhistle within a year.

Ranger ,

He’s already associated with support for genocide.

gardylou ,

deleted_by_author

    •
    sudo ,

    Its literally a copy of a 2016 trump meme except they replaced Trump with Biden. This meme was deployed whenever Trump would “shit the bed” by 2015 standards.

    SleezyDizasta ,

    Pepe and his variations never represented any political ideology. The only thing that Pepe and Wojak represent is the internet

    sudo ,

    Ah yes and the swastika is just an ancient rune

    SleezyDizasta ,

    But it is. A symbol can mean different things in different context. For example, this hand gesture 👌 means okay in Western cultures but means something more insulting and offensive in Arab culture. Does that mean one is right and is the one and only representation of the gesture? Of course not. Same here. Swastikas have been around for thousands of years across many different cultures and has many different meanings. It’s just one variation of the symbol that ended up being used by the nazis and is offensive to most people. It’s silly and rather close minded to try to disregard all these disregard all these different context and meanings when many of them have been around for longer than the nazi variation. The principle applies here.

    sudo ,

    Please remember that this particular groyper meme is a literal copy of a Trump 2016 meme with the word “Trump” replaced with “Biden” and was deployed regularly by the alt-right. Please keep that in context while you give the argument that its in a totally different context. Its like responding to dog whistling accusations with more dog whistling.

    SleezyDizasta ,

    Please remember that this particular groyper meme is a literal copy of a Trump 2016 meme with the word “Trump” replaced with “Biden” and was deployed regularly by the alt-right

    So what? You have to stop doubling down on this idiotic argument because it is getting ridiculous. Guilt by association and purity are heavily frowned upon and criticized throughout history for a reason. Different things have different meanings in different contexts, and you can’t judge people without proper contexts and for things they’re not or didn’t do. This should be obvious, but for some reason it isn’t.

    This meme and others like it all originate from 4chan and the other imageboards similar to it, and these boards are responsible for internet’s most famous memes. Just think about what has come out of 4chan for a second:

    • Wojak and its variations
    • Pepe and its variations
    • LOLcats
    • Pedobear
    • Anonymous
    • Rickrolling
    • The popularization of Chocolate Rain
    • Greentext
    • Rage comics
    • The ungodly origin of “Bronies”
    • The Shia Labeouf fiasco
    • The 4chan-Tumblr wars
    • Pool’s closed

    They are quite literally the foundation of internet culture. Everybody who grew up on the internet was used or at least enjoyed any of these. These imageboards are built on the idea that the internet is the wild west, where everybody no matter how tame or extreme, no matter how good or evil, and no matter how pragmatic or delusional can get together and shitpost. And guess what? 4chan and these other imageboards were ALWAYS cesspools filled pedos, Marxists, neo nazis, anarchists, racial supremacists, misogynists/misandrists, and so on, but at the same time, they’re also filled with a lot of normal people. Regardless, if we follow your logic, which is that anybody who has ever used any of these memes is a neo nazi by proxy then anybody who took part in mainstream Internet culture over the past 20 years is a neo nazi… which is obviously ridiculous.

    Keep in mind, you’re right the groyper meme did originate from neo nazis but so did many other famous memes. I mean the latest famous variation of wojak, the chud, originated from some Marxist imageboard. Marxists are just as vile as neo nazis, does that mean anybody who used the chudjak meme is a Marxist? No, that’s stupid. The meme was started by Marxists, but it was used by a lot of other people, including those making fun of Marxists.

    The point that I’m trying to make here is that memes serve as templates. Templates without content don’t mean anything, they’re just a structured blank document. Just like how symbols have different meanings in different contexts, so do these memes. If OP posted this same meme saying something like “Putin is still a great leader” then OP would be a fascist… but he’s not. His meme is about Biden.

    Like seriously, do you honestly believe that OP is some secret neo nazi because he used a cartoon frog meme to make a pro Biden post? Even worse, do you seriously think that I’m also a secret neo nazi by proxy for pointing out that symbols and templates mean different things in different contexts? This is where you start crossing the line from a valid critic into a paranoid schizo or McCarthyist virute signaler.

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