There have been multiple accounts created with the sole purpose of posting advertisement posts or replies containing unsolicited advertising.

Accounts which solely post advertisements, or persistently post them may be terminated.

stoi ,

Where my hex fans at?

itsgoodtobeawake ,

Torx crew represent!

june ,

Fuck yea

stoicmaverick ,

Square Drive Gang would like to battle!

june ,

Fuck yea.

stoi ,

❤

Aeri ,
@Aeri@lemmy.world avatar

Personally I wish we could eliminate flathead screw.

greedytacothief ,

I think it has its place in things that need to be fixed in the field where you may not have access to a screwdriver. Other than that they kinda suck

CaptainPedantic ,

Philips screws are awful. They strip if you look at them wrong. Flatheads should only be used on thumbscrews just in case you need a little extra torque from a screwdriver.

Torx and Hex are excellent.

Kolanaki ,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

I feel like spanner would be the best for not having shit getting stripped. But that’s just looking at this diagram; never seen them IRL.

Ajen ,

They’re mostly just used for tamper-proof screws for things like bathroom stalls so people can’t take them apart as a “prank” or whatever. The screw driver bits tend to break easily, which is usually worse than the screw stripping.

rockerface ,

Hexagons are the bestagons

weeeeum ,

I work on electronics and woodworking and Phillips are the utter worst of both of them. The thread lock in computers makes them easy to strip when unscrewing. The resistance of driving them into wood makes them guaranteed to strip when screwing. Fuck them.

stealth_cookies ,

The big issue I see with people driving Phillips screws is that they don’t use a large enough driver size. Computer screws for example are Phillips #2 and I’ve never had an issue with them stripping.

weeeeum ,

I use the correct driver, I’ll go through my kit to find the best fitting bit. It simply comes down to the fact they are designed to strip to avoid “catastrophic failure”. Plus the fact that companies use intentionally cheap, soft screws, to make repair and service harder. Cough cough zinc screws on a $10,000 iMac (steel screws would have cost 25 cents for 10, zinc like 5 cents for 10, fucking ridiculous).

evergreen ,

I read that the thing about them being designed to strip to prevent worse failure is just a myth. Or at least they weren’t originally designed to. It said that the original patent never contained any feature for that. Wouldn’t surprise me though if modern companies do use screws designed to strip to prevent disassembly/repair.

HocEnimVeni ,
@HocEnimVeni@lemmy.world avatar

I think originally the screws would cause the driver to cam out and stop driving if a certain amount of force is applied but the screws are so soft and cheap that the harder driver damages the screw head when it cams out.

nickwitha_k ,

This and the centered shape that Philips and Robertson have were key. The lack of a sharp driver bit being able to slip out of the fastener prevented a lot of injuries.

However, Philips, at least, needs to go away.

OsaErisXero ,

I always figured it was intentional but for the other reason: screws soft enough that overtightening can't damage/crack the multi-thousand dollar components, the screw head cores out first.

grue ,

That’s great, but then you can’t get your multi-thousand dollar component unscrewed anyway so what was the point?

frezik ,

It’s also a design flaw that it’s so easy to use the wrong sized driver and it will sorta work. It might be annoying that you have to have a set of different star drive or hex drive bits, but you’re less likely to strip them.

NaoPb ,

Maybe I’m just being lucky but I’ve never experienced screws stripping anymore since I’ve started getting better tools for myself.

And in woodworking it can also help to pre-drill a hole using your smallest drill, before screwing a screw in. This also prevents the wood from cracking. I’ve also seen wood screws that have some lubrication pre-applied.

AdrianTheFrog ,
@AdrianTheFrog@lemmy.world avatar

The problem is, when working with electronics, you can have a great screwdriver but it won’t help if the screws in the device are very cheap (and probably partially stripped already from someone opening it previously).

KuraiWolfGaming ,

I swear I’ve had stuff with stripped screws right from the store.

NaoPb ,

I’ll be honest that I’ve never really experienced problems like that before. I’ve had cheap screws and partially stripped screws. But so far I’ve always been able to open them with the right screwdriver.

But I believe you when you say you did and maybe you have a lot more experience than I do so I’ll respect your opinion.

AdrianTheFrog ,
@AdrianTheFrog@lemmy.world avatar

I haven’t had any completely fail yet, but I’ve seen some come worryingly close. I don’t really have all that much experience, but from what I’ve seen it just doesn’t seem like the most reliable design.

NaoPb ,

PC fan screws come to mind because they are self tapping and a lot of people seem to not use the right screwdriver or don’t yet know the trick of running the screws in and out of the fan one time outside of the case first.

nickwitha_k ,

Could be that it’s not a Philips but a JIS. I didn’t even know that JIS existed until a couple years ago. The shape is close enough to Philips to mostly work but make it super easy to strip.

huginn ,

The image feels like it should be posted in c/unpopularopinions

facelessbs ,

Square is nice too but square/Phillips is a good damn lie. Because the Philips side of it doesn’t work well enough so it is still just a square but with extra slots

sxan ,
@sxan@midwest.social avatar

Torx gang unite.

We had our 20 y/o deck repaired and stained last year. I was chatting with the overseer about what he was going to do and the topic of screws came up; he said he was going to use Torx, and only ever used Torx anymore - I just about cheered.

I’d been losing hope in humanity lately, but little signs of sanity like this, professionals finally getting rid of the hell-bits that are Phillips heads, lifts my heart and gives me hope.

bonn2 ,

I work at a big box hardware store, and I can confirm that almost all deck and structural screws are moving to torx. (much to the older generations dismay)

sxan ,
@sxan@midwest.social avatar

That’s what a worker at my local Ace store said: they were slowly transitioning to Torx.

dankm ,

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a philips or slotted deck screw. I have and have purchased many boxes of these things and they’ve always been nearly 100% Robertson. Is this a US thing?

sxan ,
@sxan@midwest.social avatar

Yes, and you’re Canadian. Robertson is the standard there, and while it’s used in other countries, not nearly as much.

In the beginning was slotted heads, mainly because mass machining and casting wasn’t good enough to have more precise forms. Then came the Great Connector Wars, and in the US the Phillips head won and was standardized; almost every house built in the US in the past 80 years will be built with these (and nails). Slotted heads are much less common, but you find them in various specific places, like where the heads are visible and you want to hide the screw as much as economically possible.

Canada, however, was smarter and standardized on the Robertson head; IIRC one reason for the divergence was the Phillips licensing cost. In any case, Robertson is superior to Phillips in most ways, except it’s even worse to dig out if it gets painted over.

As machining improved, many attempts were made to improve on Phillips, which mostly amounted to polishing a turd; Robertson remained unchanged as it was already pretty good.

Then came hex, which is great except it’s structurally pretty terrible for the head. Still, it can be seen as an improvement in Robertson, but not quite so good as to be worth all the retooling. Good enough that it’s probably the second, or at least third, most popular head in the US.

Finally, someone did some fucking math and came up with Torx, which is provably and demonstrably superior to all other screw heads. It maximizes force transfer, and leaves more material in the head; it’s harder to strip out, and can be applied effectively to very small screw heads. There’s a security version, which was mostly useless (for intended purpose) the day after it was released, but beyond that, there’s no real improvement that can be made.

The Phillips patents expired decades ago, so it’s holding on mainly from inertia. Commercial contractors don’t have much invested in it, because they have to literally buy boxes of replacement Phillips heads because of how shitty the design is and how often the heads break. While manufacturers have a steady stream of revenue from selling replacement Phillips tools that have broken, this is balanced by the mouth-watering prospect of every contractor in the US buying new Torx size-sets and high-end Torx tools. And the screw makers probably DGAF as they’ll sell screws either way; Torx screws might be a little more expensive - they used to be, but I haven’t compared lately.

Canada may just motor on using Robertson; there’s less incentive for them to retool since Robertson isn’t nearly as crappy as Phillips, so the cost/benefit to upgrade to Torx is less compelling. But who knows?

wjrii ,

These days, all but the cheapest outdoor-grade screws in the US are torx, generally with a bit thrown into the box that, while cheap, should work fine for a few boxes’ worth.

sxan ,
@sxan@midwest.social avatar

Freaking awesome. Better and better. We’ve finally fixed the screw heads, and pretty much also computer connectors (and small device chargers!) with USB-C. Just in time for the end of the world via total ecological collapse.

Great times.

azertyfun ,

I’ve heard that was more of a European thing, but the only two serious contenders are Pozidriv vs Torx for screws (and hex vs Allen for bolts).

I just checked my local hardware store’s website, and out of the 176 kinds of 4/4.5mm screw boxes in their inventory, 74 are Torx, 55 are Pozidriv, and 38 are Phillips (ew).

Either Torx or Pozidriv is fine when used properly, however most DIYers don’t understand the difference between PZ and PH and end up stripping their heads. Also it’s much harder to use the wrong-sized bit with Torx than PZ.

So yeah, Torx wins in just about every category and other heads only get manufactured to appease old people and penny-pinchers.

sxan ,
@sxan@midwest.social avatar

That’s one of my issues with Pozi - it can be hard to see the markings, and not everyone has great eyesight. I mostly object to Phillips-related screws because there are so many variations that mostly look the same and require a table to differentiate. And none have the torque-transfer performance of Torx. Plus, you can use a hex head in a Torx bit in an emergency and you don’t much care about either the bit or the head.

AresUII ,

The ones with bumps in the middle can go fuck themselves

grue ,

Flatheads should only be used on thumbscrews just in case you need a little extra torque from a screwdriver.

The only other legitimate use I’ve seen for flatheads is on wooden boats, where you’ll be gooping the head up with tar for waterproofing. Since you’ll eventually have to scrape it back off again to get to the fastener, you want a simple geometry that’s easy to clean.

nilloc ,

Square (Robertson) drives are actually great too. Better than Hex/Allen, but Torx is the most reliable, and the most German. Phillips can take a long walk off a short pier.

Lev_Astov ,
@Lev_Astov@lemmy.world avatar

I do wish Robertson heads were more common. They’re almost as tough as torx, but tapered to stick on the tip of the tool, which is so convenient.

captain_aggravated ,
@captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

Factually incorrect.

Torx and Square/Robertson are superior, Hex/Allen and Phillips are allowed a seat on this council but not granted the rank of master, Posidriv is theoretically Phillips++ but only to the six people in the world that know what it is and own a Posidriv screwdriver, to everyone else it’s that goddamn Phillips that keeps camming out. JIS is parallel universe Phillips, it’s exactly as reasonably okay as Phillips is for identical reasons, the biggest problem is that they exist alongside and closely resemble Phillips screws. Everything else except slotted is a mental disorder, and slotted was dropped on its head as a child.

ForgotAboutDre ,

Posidrive is very common in the UK. Especially in trades. They are so common screwdriver sets will include posi and slotted with no Philips. Philips is still common in electronics.

Posidrive is much better than Phillips, but just as easy to quickly screw lots of things. Torx and hex take longer to align and have many more sized drive ends. Posidrive has three sizes and 90% of them are number 2. But if you need more torque then they are no good. But at that point you need to switch to a different tool like an impact or wrench.

A washing machine I recently had to repair had three different sizes of torx and it isn’t obvious which one till you test fit. Posidrive is easy to identify the size by eye and many different screw diameters share the same posi head. Coupled with self alignment they are just more convenient. I have Robertson bits from multipacks but never needed them.

captain_aggravated ,
@captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

Phillips has been such a standard for so long in the United States I don’t think it’s going anywhere, and Pozidriv has made basically no inroads; in fact the only Posidriv screws I own are part of an E3D 3D printer extruder.

I encounter a LOT of Phillips heads, quite a lot of Torx, at least here in America a lot of carpentry screws are starting to standardize on T25 Torx drive. A lot of them include a T25 driver bit in the package, and they are SO much better than Phillips. Drywall screws are still commonly #2 Phillips. Pocket screws (washer headed wood screws) tend to be square drive for whatever reason. Machine screws are either Phillips or Allen. I find a lot of appliances held together with small external hex sheet metal screws, if not Phillips.

I bought a 50 piece bit kit and it came with no less than 8 #2 Phillips drivers.

DaBabyAteMaDingo ,

Holy hell the entirety of Lemmy just exposed themselves as retarded jobless people.

Six lobe, or torx, is fucking awesome when screwing in serious screws. It’s the reason why it replaced all philips and most hex heads.

Slotted screws are the fucking worst. You guys have never worked a blue collar job in your lives 🤣😂😭

JamesTBagg ,

My first thought was, “this post brought to you by not mechanics.” Otherwise they’d recognize the superiority of hex and torx over Philips and especially flat. But then I realized this is, in fact, a very shit post.

DaBabyAteMaDingo ,

You know, I made the comment and seconds later I noticed my blunder. But I refused to edit or delete it because I’m standing on bidness.

SSUPII OP ,

My post is bait

JamesTBagg ,

And good bait at that. You’ve snagged us all.

casual_turtle_stew_enjoyer ,

There is one screw on this chart that I have a mortal hatred for. Just one. That being the fat Phillips (called “Phillips/square” on this chart meme thing).

I have no idea why, but some companies can’t resist the sadistic urge to put tiny versions of these fuckers on equipment that should just use a torque or Phillips screw head. But no, they want you to truly suffer. Because they don’t stop there: they make the fragile little fuckers out of NICKEL. Which means they are extra malleable and prone to strip if you so much as look at them the wrong way. So imagine you need to replace a hard drive on a RAID-type storage pool that’s already down two spares and you can’t fucking get the drive out of it’s sled because the vendor not only hired a bodybuilder to tighten the screws, but simultaneously chose the worst possible metal just for giggles and chose the screw head that they no body will have the proper bit for and will inevitably use a normal phillips on until it strips.

I now have a ritual procedure of putting every drive that gets replaced in the coldest cold aisle in the datacenter for at least 5 minutes just to make these fucking screws less likely to ruin my day.

Fuck whoever invented the fat phillips, even the lowest ring of hell is too good for them.

stoicmaverick ,

Ya. Just those guys, and anybody who eats turtles. Keep the psychos out of the nice parts of hell.

casual_turtle_stew_enjoyer , (edited )

Every awkward fascist, sexist turtle will be gathered into an imaginary pot and cooked alive for all to see. The aroma and broth will be delectable.

If you have no idea what any of this means and no idea why I don this weird username, then I kindly implore you stay out of it for sake of your own sanity. Otherwise, lmk and I’ll begrudgingly curse you with knowledge of the tale of a particularly disgraceful misanthrope and an even worse excuse for a human being.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

But no, they want you to truly suffer.

It’s called Planned Obsolescence, sweatie. Now go out and buy a new device.

casual_turtle_stew_enjoyer , (edited )

Buddy. I’m not talking about consumer equipment. I’m talking about enterprise equipment that costs more than your car. Step off.

And yes, I know planned obsolescence is a thing in enterprise. But that doesn’t mean your enterprise customer won’t make purchasing decisions based on the quality of such small components. We refuse to order from HPE, to give you an idea of how we take this sort of thing. We know what we’re buying and how to use it and if we can’t properly maintain it because the vendor is an asshat, we’ll find a new vendor because fuck you we can’t afford to put up with your shenanigans.

jadedwench ,

No thanks. I will stick to my torx and hex, and they better be in metric.

  • Don’t use over or undersized screwdrivers, especially on smaller electronics.
  • Stop torquing while you are still ahead.
  • Be especially careful if the metals are soft.
  • Keep your driver perpendicular. Better drivers can make this easier.
  • Better to back out the screw and try again if it isn’t going in smooth on something threaded. Check for debris and burrs. If you need to apply more pressure, do so carefully.
  • I have found that for small stuff, getting nicer drivers makes a huge difference.

Penta-lobes for some of the small electronics are funny I guess, but they don’t bother me as long as I have a bit for it. Main thing is to understand why some of these different shapes exist.

captain_aggravated ,
@captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

Torx doesn’t come in standard/metric. It uses an arbitrary system. What’s so “25” about a T25?

jadedwench ,

Ah yes, the head size follows their iso standard for it. The threads, however, can be metric or SAE. You can put a different screw/bolt with whatever head in the same hole, but the threads/diameter can be metric or SAE/imperial.

t0fr ,
@t0fr@lemmy.ca avatar

You can tell a shitpost is a shitpost when it is entirely wrong

pelotron ,
@pelotron@midwest.social avatar

Agreed, Phillips needs to get Thanos’d.

lambda ,
@lambda@programming.dev avatar

Torx screws 4 lyfe

LookBehindYouNowAndThen ,

Yeah, they’re literally made to cam out.

Useful for automation, but terrible for repairs.

stoicmaverick ,

I also watch AVE, but it’s Philips heads that were made for early assembly line use to cam out under torque. Specifically for the Model-T if I remember correctly.

LookBehindYouNowAndThen ,

Never watched AVE, I used to be an auto tech.

The Wikipedia article has an interesting summary.

Looks like it wasn’t intended by the initial patent, but was discovered as a useful property.

frezik ,

And the automation argument isn’t as important now that electric drills all have clutches.

MataVatnik ,
@MataVatnik@lemmy.world avatar

Same with slotted, hate them with a passion, especially when it’s those with the raise head

SSUPII OP ,

Successfully baited 200 comments

t0fr ,
@t0fr@lemmy.ca avatar

Did you really shitpost? Or did you go fishing?

SSUPII OP ,

Was indeed a big catch

mortrek ,

Oh… I thought this was satirical about gender or something. Not literally saying that those are the two best screws, because NOBODY IN THE WORLD THINKS THAT.

SSUPII OP ,

I remember the original image did pick on genders considering cis male and female as the only “acceptable” ones

This version is better

UnfortunateShort ,

Everyone who does not want torx and nothing but torx has never screwed torx screws.

A_Random_Idiot ,

Honestly, I dont understand why everything isnt square drive.

its simple, and its a pretty strong design that resists camming out and rounding off.

Acters ,

Some claim to have stripped Robertson screws but to be fair, the metal used and amount of torque the peson applies is the biggest reason for problems.

Phillips heads were supposed to solve the over torquing problem, but everyone didn’t listen to standard specifications and didn’t bother using them as they were meant to be made and used. The Philips head was supposed to slip once the correct torque was applied. Unfortunately, this positive benefit became a negative. With poor metals and a mismatched driver bit to screw head along with not using the screw head that was meant for the specified torque demands, the Phillips screw became known for stripping.

Trying to implement non overtorquing feature to the square bit and you will find how similar it will look to the Phillips head.

Right now, Torx is the best at not stripping, but good luck if the screw is overtorqued. Eventually, the cheap metal gives out with the screw head, or bit, snapping off.

ForgotAboutDre ,

This is a common misconception. Phillips was not supposed to solve over torquing. It was designed to allow higher torques, stop slipping and self centre. It was only really good at self centering.

A screw designed to stop it being over toqured is a terrible idea. The screw should be smaller to prevent if higher torque is needed. If over torque is an issue then reducing the power to the driver is a much better solutio (easily done in industrial setting Phillips was designed for). You can also reduce the size of the screwdriver supplied.

ikidd ,
@ikidd@lemmy.world avatar

Fuck large format torx that are exposed to the element. I just weld a nut on them now and pound them out with an impact because you’ll break 2 torx bits for every one bolt you’d get out.

Aux ,

Torx are cancer.

getynge ,

six lobe and it’s variants are instruments of the devil, I swear I can’t ever get the screw size right for the life of me and get so paranoid about stripping screws.

Churbleyimyam ,

Phillips and pozi are actually designed to cam out (look it up on wikipedia). Started using torx a few years ago and I will never go back to pz again, even if it’s on the clock and someone else is paying for materials.

Flat head still has it’s place IMO, for example on machinery that gets used out in the field where you might need to improvise a driver out of a knife or coin or something.

Ph and pz are the work of the devil though.

franglais ,

This man clearly works in the field. Torx is the head to rule them all, except below T15 then it’s a pain, and you break more bits than you put in screws.

Churbleyimyam ,

True. Best to save T15 and below for cleaning the flesh out from under your fingernails after you’ve finished removing all the pz screws the last guy put in.

mariusafa ,

Is just me or pozi skips even more than standard Philips?

Churbleyimyam ,

Yeah, they’re even worse.

mariusafa ,

For real, an when de screw is cheap. The screwdriver just eats all the metal. More than one time I got left with a stuck screw because the craving was completely destroyed.

RememberTheApollo_ ,

Half dozen or so of them are just slot or phillips with extra shit, no weird tools needed.

gnygnygny ,

Tri-wing is the best ! Never saw it before.

Jon_Servo ,

Let me introduce a fresh hell: we call them Apex screws.

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/763f26cc-5b5e-43c4-b5d3-5e3a410c549f.jpeg

NoSpiritAnimal ,
@NoSpiritAnimal@lemmy.world avatar

No take it back

jtk ,
@jtk@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

The “Alpha Male” of screws.

Rolive ,

German engineering?

xavier666 ,

Wonder what gave away…

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • •
  • [email protected]
  • random
  • lifeLocal
  • goranko
  • All magazines
    •