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frozen ,
@frozen@lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz avatar

Listen, I hate the tipping culture here just as much as everybody else, but the fact is, if you can’t afford to tip, you can’t afford to go out. Should employees get a decent wage without it, absolutely yes. But they don’t right now, and you not tipping isn’t going to change that.

FireRetardant ,

If we continue to tip as a wage subsidy, where is the motivation to make companies actually pay their workers?

frozen ,
@frozen@lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz avatar

I agree with you, actually. If you don’t want to tip, fine, don’t tip. But don’t go to a restaurant and then not tip, either, because not only are you still giving the company money, you’re shortchanging the actual person you want to help.

Fiivemacs ,

We are not short changing anyone. A tip isn’t a guaranteed income from working.

Also, it’s halrious that you agreed with the previous person, then instantly renegged and said the opposite and went back to he same garbage you said before.

Tipping culture is wrong. Never tip, stop begging.

frozen ,
@frozen@lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz avatar

I’m not contradicting myself. All of my points can coexist.

  1. If you don’t want to tip, fine, stop tipping.
  2. If you go out to eat, tip your staff.
  3. If you want the tipping culture to change, stop going out.

You’re correct, a tip is not guaranteed income, that’s the entire problem. I don’t understand why what I’m saying is so hard to understand. The company will only make up for lost tips for a waiter for so long before they’re fired. Continuing to go out to eat and then not tipping changes nothing, it just makes the waitstaff’s lives harder.

Zoot ,
@Zoot@reddthat.com avatar

If everyone today stopped tipping, do you think companies would suddenly begin to pay more? I’d wager that wage increases start with the waiting staff, and ends there. Why are you pushing the responsibility onto the customer?

frozen ,
@frozen@lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz avatar

I’m not pushing the responsibility anywhere. If anything, I think it’s the government’s responsibility to take the tipping loophole out of minimum wage laws.

Laraxus ,
@Laraxus@kbin.social avatar

The hostility is entirely unnecessary. If you eat out and don't tip, the only person you're hurting is the person you claim to want to help. If you can't tip, eat at home. If you can, then do so while still fighting for better workers rights. It's really not a difficult concept to grasp.

KillerTofu ,

But this is specific to sit down restaurants. Do I tip when all I receive is counter service? Or take out?

Laraxus ,
@Laraxus@kbin.social avatar

If you're picking it up yourself, I think tipping is unnecessary. If it's being delivered, I always make a point to save enough for a tip.

Fiivemacs ,

Who said I go out to eat to help others? What?!

prettybunnys ,

I think their point is being missed.

In the USA at least in restaurants most servers work for tips. That’s 99.99% of their pay.

They’re saying that unfortunately because of a tipping culture you’re taking part in exploiting the worker unless you tip.

Businesses now adding tipping to POS for other stuff is their attempt to shift responsibility for paying their worker into you.

I think the dude you’re replying to is mixing their messages some.

frozen ,
@frozen@lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz avatar

Thanks for the clarification. I sometimes get tunnel vision and forget people live in places with different laws and regulations. Yes, I’m specifically talking about US states where it’s legal to pay a waiter $2.13 an hour because tips make up the rest of federal minimum wage.

Fiivemacs ,

I’m bad with words. Thank you

spujb ,

you are proposing that if we all stop tipping, companies will be motivated to pay their workers; you are correct, this is what would happen if we all stopped tipping at the same time.

this process is known as collective action. it is incredibly important to remember that collective action only works when it actually happens. in other words, your individual action of not tipping your waiter is ONLY beneficial to your waiter if you can make sure one else tips either.

do you have this power? (i think you don’t; if you do i beg of you to exercise it lol.)

now consider who actually holds the power here. at any point, your restaurant’s owner could institute a no-tip policy, thereby ensuring that no one has to tip, ever. several restaurants already have done this, and it works. now, you might (correctly) note that this may gives an unfair advantage to other competing restaurants who do not implement no-tip policy. this is where local and regional policy can come in to help coordinate transitioning to a more helpful model of compensating employees.

so there’s kind of this imbalance, where yeah technically it’s possible for us as eaters of food to “fix” the tipping problem, but its way way easier for the people in charge (whether that’s government or owners) to fix it, because they have the power of coordination on their side.

tldr, tip your waiters and advocate for anti-tipping policies if you want to maximize long term benefits for everyone.

Serinus ,

benefits for everyone.

No, not benefits for everyone. Servers will never get a wage that’s equivalent to the tips they get now. Never.

Go survey servers on the subject and see what they think.

I’m not necessarily against no tipping areas, but I’m not going to act like it benefits the workers. It’s more of a crab bucket mentality where we bring the better paying low-skill job in line with all the rest.

tswiftchair ,

If we don’t tip, where is the motivation to make companies actually pay their workers?

Sprawlie ,

Employees who won’t be able to make a living will go elsewhere. it’s not easy and instant, but eventually if a restaraunt can’t staff itself, it will collapse.

We should absolutely not be subsidizing restaraunt owners who are only keeping a float by paying low wages. if they can’t afford to properly pay their staff, they don’t deserve to operate.

popcap200 ,

My man, I have no idea why you got down voted. You’re 100% correct. Can’t afford to tip, can’t afford to eat out. Eating out is a luxury, not a necessity. Grocery stores have frozen food if you don’t want to cook.

Fisherswamp ,

OP is right, and the users on Lemmy are salty. Waiters make $2.13 / hour they survive off tips. If you don’t tip, the system doesn’t change, you’re just an asshole

megabat , (edited )

FWIW this is completely location dependent. Where I am at in the USA waiters are paid $15 / hr plus whatever tips they recieve and I tip unless the service was completely abysmal.

Fiivemacs ,

Waiters make the same minimum wage as everyone else near me…

They only make 2.13 an hour near YOU BECAUSE YOU KEEP TIPPING AND ALLOWING THE ABUSE FROM THE COMPANIES TO CONTINUE

Voyajer ,
@Voyajer@lemmy.world avatar

If nobody tips for their entire shift they will make $7.25-$15 an hour, not $2.13. That $5.12-$12.87 is just pocketed by the restaurant if they get tipped.

Fisherswamp ,

That’s not true. The minimum wage guarantee is by pay period, not by shift

WereCat ,

Eating out is luxury and not necessity and that makes tiping a necessity?

frozen ,
@frozen@lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz avatar

No, but it makes tipping a necessity if you go out. My stance on this is that if you want to enact change, stop eating out. Continuing to eat out but then not tipping doesn’t do anything except shortchange the wait staff. The company still gets your money.

Neato ,
@Neato@ttrpg.network avatar

When you say that common indulgences are “luxuries” are not required, you’re promoting austerity. You’re asking people to forgo life’s pleasures for no real gain. That NEVER works. People won’t just stay at home eating simple food unless they will go broke otherwise. With a world of billionaires we can’t ask for austerity; it’s morally bankrupt.

popcap200 ,

I mean, that feels like common sense to me. I have less money than I had last year, so my girlfriend and I eat out less, I buy less video games, I buy more chicken and less beef, I buy less alcohol, etc. etc. It’s just a reality of inflation.

We avoided the recession, the result is inflation is destroying our wallets, so we have to spend less to still pay our bills.

Serinus ,

We avoided the recession, the result is inflation

That’s more of a function of corporate greed than anything else. They’re all hiding behind each other while ripping you off, and getting away with it because it’s difficult to call out any one company when they’re all doing it.

What are you going to do about it, compete in the marketplace? The barriers to entry are high enough that that is extraordinarily difficult. And if you do manage it, why would you charge less than market rate? And you’re likely to just get bought out by a bigger competitor anyway, so grats on your cash out.

popcap200 ,

I mean, sure, we can say it’s corporate greed, but also we’ve put over a trillion dollars extra into the economy in a short span due to COVID and Build Back Better, while at the same time there were supply shortages for years, plus record low unemployment causing a raising of wages, all without the fed reacting quick enough by increasing interest rates sooner. We’ve got every textbook condition for an increase in inflation rates.

Serinus ,

Don’t forget the PPP where Trump refused to sign it if it had proper oversight.

popcap200 ,

That is very true! I’m very salty Trump was able to just do that, but I couldn’t get my student loans deleted. :l

BruceTwarzen ,

It works pretty well in developed countries

frozen ,
@frozen@lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz avatar

Visiting Japan was incredible, every price was transparent and you paid exactly what the menu said. Wish we could get that going here.

IWantToFuckSpez ,

And you can find really cheap delicious food in Japan.

Sprawlie ,

I got chased down the street on my first day by someone I tipped. I didn’t know it was actually taboo. Apparently tipping is an insult. The staff chased me down on the street to return it to me.

megabat , (edited )

Lol, I see what you did there! Edit well I thought it was funny…

halcyoncmdr ,
@halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world avatar

The issue here isn’t tipping in general… It’s the audacity to try and increase percentages while prices are also going up for everything, including that same meal compared to a couple years ago.

Tipping in general is bullshit and we need to fix the root cause of employers not being required or willing to pay fair wages, across the entire economy, not just service industries.

someguy3 ,

It’s not about “not tipping”, it’s 15% vs 25% and unreasonable expectations.

frozen ,
@frozen@lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz avatar

Ah, that makes sense, thanks.

recapitated ,

It’s true. The consumer is always who pays.

Tipping culture is basically a way for employers to allow customers to decide to undercut the employees and it’s remarkably inappropriate.

I’m a world without tipping, the wait staff will make normal wages, the food prices will go up. If you cannot afford that, you will eat at home.

samus12345 ,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

If you can’t afford to live working for tips, you shouldn’t work at a job that’s dependent on tips.

tswiftchair ,

“You should just make more money!”

samus12345 ,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

“You should just work somewhere that doesn’t depend on handouts from customers for your wages!”

tswiftchair ,

“If you don’t like it here then leave!”

samus12345 ,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

This, but unironically.

JCreazy ,

I hear a lot of this rhetoric but it sounds like you’re just saying this is how it is and I’m going to accept it which I think is a cowards approach. If you want to make change then you have to do something about it by going to restaurants and not tipping you are sending a message. Does it hurt the server? Maybe, but in the end it’s not my responsibility to pay them and if more people stop tipping then maybe things will change. With that being said, I don’t go out to any places that expect me to tip because I know there are people like you that think I’m evil because I don’t want to give my hard-earned money away to someone else for doing their job.

frozen ,
@frozen@lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz avatar

Maybe I should’ve worded my original comment better, because I never said we should just accept it. I explicitly think we shouldn’t accept it by refusing to do business at places that push tipping instead of paying their staff proper wages.

Probably should’ve led with that.

Gork ,

It does annoy me slightly when POS systems have placeholder tip amounts but they’re like 18%, 20%, and 25%. Sorry, but I just do the standard 15% in most cases so now I gotta calculate it out in my head.

BruceTwarzen ,

I'm gonna go with the standard 0% or round up the number if i feel like it.

Fiivemacs ,

Right? Like why is people’s STANDARD giving money away.

Neato ,
@Neato@ttrpg.network avatar

Because that’s how our service industry is built.

Tipping isn’t mandatory. But the issue is if a lot of people stop tipping all at once, servers will quit those locations. Then those locations will almost certainly go out of business because they can’t afford to pay a living wage because the US’s commercial real estate is insanely expensive. Current restaurant models essentially are built on this dynamic and to change it would require a lot of moving pieces to change. But for those pieces to change, a LOT of businesses will need to go out of business all at once to tank the real estate market.

And you may think: if they can’t afford to pay a living wage, they should go out of business. That’s a reasonable stance but it ignores the result: megacorps will buy up real estate and only huge chain restaurants will likely survive these kinds of busts. All your local favorite places will go under and be replaced by Fridays or Applebees because their thousands of locations can close 25% to focus on profitability.

Darkmuch ,

I’ve been asked for tips when having carryout. And also getting a scoop of ice cream. Tipping is a relic of racist practices when southern people didn’t want to pay emancipated black workers a wage. It only still exists because restaurant owners lobby congress to keep it a thing. Stop bribing congress and pay your employees you fucks.

Neato ,
@Neato@ttrpg.network avatar

I’ve been asked for tips when having carryout.

You’re just complaining now. That has not been customary and it annoys me too. Don’t tip if service wasn’t rendered.

Tipping is a relic of racist practices when southern people didn’t want to pay emancipated black workers a wage.

Sad fact but entirely irrelevant to the issue today.

It only still exists because restaurant owners lobby congress to keep it a thing. Stop bribing congress and pay your employees you fucks.

In two sentences you have identified why you can’t just stop tipping AND how to fix it: legislation.

If you stop tipping but still go out, you are essentially doing what racists in the past did by not paying people you would appear to not like. You not tipping is classist bigotry.

Fight for server’s rights in a way that actually makes a difference: contact your congress people and elect people who care about this issue. Not tipping is just hurting people at the lowest rungs of society while still taking their labor. Gross.

Serinus ,

Fight for server’s rights

Yeah, this isn’t what you’d be doing. Survey servers and ask if they’d rather get tips or $15/hour and see what kind of responses you get.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Normally, you’re paying a tip on service. So, the waiter hovering over your table and collecting your order / refilling your drink / dusting off the table between courses is part of the dining experience. Its fee for service.

But yeah, now the credit card reader asks if you want to pay a tip to the fucking vending machine. Its asinine.

hemko ,

Price of the product and service is the list price. Tipping is extra

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

List price virtually never includes service fees and taxes, at least in the States. I swear, its like some of you people have never eaten out before.

hemko , (edited )

I’ve been eating in restaurants from street food to nice ones on multiple countries, and continents. Service fee (and taxes too BTW) are always included in the list price. That’s the default

What kind of shithole country you’re living in?

Edit: since servers in USA are paid hourly (even if shitty), the service fee must be in the list price. it’s just the fact that the servers are not paid enough, and the customers are being blackmailed to pay extra off the books

jballs ,
@jballs@sh.itjust.works avatar

There’s a self service store in the Newark airport that sells overpriced snacks for travelers stuck without any other options. It asks you for a tip while you check yourself out. As if paying $6 for a cup of juice wasn’t bad enough already.

m_f ,

I just had a POS machine recommend 20%, 25%, or 30% for percentages. It seems like it’s increasing

eek2121 ,

I had one do that (well, even higher, 25, 30, 35, Other) for a retailer recently. Like, it took them under 10 seconds to ring me up and they should automatically get 25%? I chose zero.

Imgonnatrythis ,

You chose wisely

ManosTheHandsOfFate ,
@ManosTheHandsOfFate@lemmy.world avatar

For POS they’d be much more likely to get a tip from me if the options were $0.50, $1.00, or $1.50.

SexualPolytope ,
@SexualPolytope@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

I just keep reading this as Piece of Shit machine, and I don’t think I’m too off the mark here.

Frozengyro ,

If you ever had to use one, you’d be right on the money.

frezik ,

Yes, very. The software on those things is terrible.

Serinus ,

The standard tip at a POS is 0. Generally the same for carry out.

If you’re not getting personal service by a human, you don’t need to tip.

They do it because they can get away with it and it makes money off of suckers.

gigachad ,

As a non-native speaker, I assume POS != Peace of shit?

Gork ,

Point of Sale.

But you’re correct in that most of these Point of Sale systems are also Pieces of Shit.

Blackmist ,

Can confirm.

Source: I make POS systems.

Ensign_Crab ,

Point of Sale.

B1naryB0t ,

Often it means that but in this case it means “Point Of Sale”

sananibar ,

Point of Service (?) aka the machine that handles the transaction

someguy3 ,

POS in normal talk means piece of shit. POS in business talk means point of sale.

Rentlar ,

If my tip is to be decided before I see my order in front of me, 5% tops if at all.

ColeSloth ,

Fun fact. When I was a kid, the “standard” was 10%. So food prices have shot up faster than inflation, but you’re still tipping 50% more than what the norm was when tipping was already well established.m, even if you ignore the expensive food you’re tipping for.

someguy3 ,

I remember when I realized tipping is insane (like 15 years ago at a bar). One of my friends was talking the waitress up and she was complaining about another table and the tip she expected. Some quick math worked out to she expected 40%.

Imgonnatrythis ,

Keep in mind by doing that she probably raised her tip from your friend by at least 10%. I wouldn’t assume there wasn’t some strategy in that conversation.

NoIWontPickaName ,

What was the total? That could be completely reasonable, if I order coffee and a piece of pie 40% is only a couple of bucks

generaldenmark ,

Americans be like; “If you can’t afford to pay 69% tip then don’t go out eating at all”

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Also, complaining that things will cost too much if waiters eek by on more than minimum wage.

dabaldeagul ,
@dabaldeagul@feddit.nl avatar

The cost is literally the same… Restaurants would just be upfront about it then.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

That would be upsetting to the business owners, though. You know - the Job Creators.

David_Eight ,

If I’m directly responsible for their salary, then they’re working for me. I created that job.

Maggoty ,

You assume the restaurant’s prices are connected to wages in any meaningful way. We’re paying the wages. That’s all food cost and profit.

SpaceNoodle ,

Eek! They eke out a living on so little!

surewhynotlem ,

If you’re going to say “69%” , you need to call it eating out, not out eating.

Steve ,

While getting fucked! What a meal!

joelfromaus ,
@joelfromaus@aussie.zone avatar

It’s only eating out if it’s 69%, otherwise it’s just sparkling oral.

wreckedcarzz ,
@wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world avatar

If all I had to do was 69 my waiter, I’d be eating out a lot more

SeabassDan ,

I gotta say, complaining about being on the verge of a recession while going out for a $70 meal really puts my poverty into perspective.

Goldenboy ,

No tiping means meals get more expensive. Easy as that. It is a bit strange to me that people going out to eat and drink, stick it to us waiters and barkeepers and cooks.

I worked at many small places where the owners where struggling to keep everything afloat.

I do also wish there was no need for tips, but truth is that would scare many guests away and would take time to adapt. Time in wich id be broke af.

moriquende ,

what’s the difference then? At the end of the day the guests scared away are the ones who wouldn’t have left a tip in the first place.

grte , (edited )

This is the truth. If you want the industry to change, don’t go to restaurants who do the tipping model. If you go to these places and don’t tip in some misguided attempt to change things, guess what. The owner just felt zero difference. They got paid 100% what they were expecting. It’s the waitstaff who just felt it. So why would the restaurant owner, the guy with the power to change things and not notable for giving a shit about their staff, care about your protest at all? Assuming they notice which they aren’t going to.

The only way to actually mount financial pressure on these places is to not go to them.

Of course, I assume most people who claim to be not tipping as some form of protest against the system just want to take advantage of the lower prices allowable by the lowered wage that waitstaff receive while claiming to be doing it for some higher purpose.

[edit] And the controversial nature of this blatant reality proves my point. People understand the nature of the system and want to abuse a service worker to their benefit while claiming to be doing so from some sort of moral high ground. You’re lying. To yourself, to the rest of us, you are full of shit. If you actually believed in changing the system you would do as I say and not participate in businesses that use it.

NoIWontPickaName ,

Nah, I hate tipping because of the fact that it is on a percentage.

I just order to go, food quality is a little lower than straight from the kitchen, the company is better though

krashmo ,

These are reasons why the economy, politicians, and your employer are failing you. Be upset with the people who create and maintain the system, not other people like you who are just trying to escape their own shitty work situations with a beer and a cheeseburger. It shouldn’t be their job to pay you directly. People in other industries don’t accept a pay structure like that and you shouldn’t either.

SuicideSorcerer ,

If tipping went away the food shouldn’t be more expensive to the consumer, the restaurant owner should take a pay cut and pay their employees better. Why does everyone always assume that if minimum wage went up or if tipping went away that the customer would absorb the cost?

IHeartBadCode ,
@IHeartBadCode@kbin.social avatar

Why does everyone always assume that if minimum wage went up or if tipping went away that the customer would absorb the cost?

There’s no technical reason for why, just based on current evidence where 100% of the time producers shove any increase in cost to consumers.

You’re correct that there’s nothing technically preventing producers from eating the increase, it’s just that they’ve never done so, at least in the US.

Only real example where that has happen was with Nintendo and the WiiU. I’m sure there’s more but the fact I’m drawing blank past that but could name you over a thousand times when the cost was shoved off to consumers kind of is my point in a nutshell.

So that said, that’s why a lot of people just assume increase in cost of production equals increase in cost to consumers.

SuicideSorcerer ,

You’re right but I guess my point is that we’re already talking about a hypothetical situation so ideally if we’re adjusting wages and tipping culture, then the responsibility would be put on the employer.

IHeartBadCode ,
@IHeartBadCode@kbin.social avatar

I guess my point is that we’re already talking about a hypothetical situation

Oh okay, fair enough. Yeah ideally that’s the direction it preferably should go in.

GlendatheGayWitch ,

Currently servers are currently paid minimum $2.13/hour. If they don’t make enough after tips to equal minimum wage over a pay period ($7.25/hour), then the restaurant is required to pay them up to that minimum wage.

Labor costs for servers, bartenders, and others caught in this legal loophole would have to increase by 7-fold to get up to $15/hour. Many restaurants and bars wouldn’t be able to afford that large of an increase without raising prices, given that many have a profit margin between 3-6% per several sources.

There have been some restaurants that have raised wages closer to $15/hour with varying success, but that hasn’t caught on widely yet.

SuicideSorcerer ,

Well then if a business can’t operate without underpaying their employees or passing the financial burden to the customer then maybe their business doesn’t deserve to stay open.

GlendatheGayWitch ,

That’s not really relevant. My reply was in response to statement that food shouldn’t be more expensive to the consumer with tipping removed. Obviously the revenue for the servers to be paid has to come from somewhere, so it’s either coming from the price of food or tips. If we get rid of tipping, the restaurant will have to raise prices to cover that cost.

Huge chains could more easily pay a better wage than family-owned restaurants.

momo420 ,

Are you trolling?

Do I have a perfect idea for you, for a restaurant - you can order anything you like and the bill is always going to be $1.00. But at the end the restaurant chooses the tip amount.

WOW that’s crazy, just 1 buck 😲. And the customers will always be happy because the meals are not expensive.

samus12345 ,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

No tiping means meals get more expensive.

Which is fine as long as it works out to be what it would have been with a standard tip. That’s how it should be.

Passerby6497 ,

No tiping means meals get more expensive.

Do they really get more expensive, or do you just pay the “more expensive” meal price with what would be an expected tip anyway? And no matter what, prices are gonna go up anyway, so we might not even notice those increases.

Draedron ,

The prices would be the same. They just wouldnt be hidden anymore

someguy3 ,

One thing: We’re not on the verge of a recession. The right wing media needs to make things up to attack and that was one of them. I couldn’t believe all that talk, nothing happened, nothing was about to happen, but they fear mongered for months.

popcap200 ,

I personally 100% think we were on the brink of a recession and Biden dropping a trillion into the economy avoided it.

GreenPlasticSushiGrass ,

Biden should be talking up the soft landing every time he answers a question, imho. Uncle Joe saved us all a lot of pain with that.

Serinus ,

It’s true, but it’s not a great talking point. Every time you say we’re in a good spot, you’re going to have voters who aren’t in a good spot. So then you have to couch it in talk about doing more.

You’re right in that it’s worthy of bragging about; it’s just a tricky subject.

popcap200 ,

Yeah, plus everyone knows that inflation is up under Biden, which still feels bad.

afraid_of_zombies ,

Wait until next year when they win and put us on the gold standard plan 2025

frezik ,

It’s been about a year and a half since we’ve been right on the brink of a recession.

ColeSloth ,

Really? More people are living with parents much longer, pay hasn’t nearly increased with food and housing costs, fewer people are having children, interest rates shot up like 6% in a couple years, the average price of a new vehicle is now $51,000, since 2010 housing costs have shot up about 100%, debt has vastly increased, the wealth gap has straight up gone insane, and depression rates are climbing.

They’ve been putting up bandaid to try and hold it off, but the damn will collapse. The dollar menu didn’t turn into the $2.89 menu for nothing.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Guy earning $2.35/hr: “It would be nice to earn enough to continue to pay for my living expenses.”

Me, a guy who just had him wait on me hand-and-foot for an hour while I sipped a coffee: “Hell no I’m not giving you $.25 more than a dollar.”

Primarily0617 ,

why is he waiting on you hand-and-foot if all you're doing is sipping a coffee?

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Presumably because you’re guzzling it as fast as he can brew more and refill.

IHeartBadCode ,
@IHeartBadCode@kbin.social avatar

Someone drinking coffee like that seems to me like they’re trying to avoid tipping by going into cardiac arrest.

samus12345 ,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

How can you sip and guzzle at the same time?

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Practice

Sprawlie ,

Why is your problem here that people don’t want to have to pay additional above the expected posted fee for their food?

the same argument can easily be asked, why the fuck are you supporting and allowing for restaurateurs to pay 2.35/hr?

Stop encouraging greedy bosses by subsidizing their workers for them.

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Why is your problem here that people don’t want to have to pay additional above the expected posted fee for their food?

Its clearly more your problem than mine. I’m not the one getting nasty stares and bad service because I’ve stiffed the help.

Draedron ,

The only one who is stiffing them is the restaurant owner.

De_Narm , (edited )

Something I don’t get, why is it percentage based? I mean, I get it from the waiters perspective. But as a customer? Whether my one plate of food is 20$ or 200$, he did the same thing. Scaling with more items or time spent would seem more appropriate.

greedytacothief ,

Well usually more people means a higher bill, more people is more work. Lots of places even just add gratuity to the bill once a group size is large enough.

But tipping is dumb, and working in the service industry sucks… I have no easy solutions.

Sprawlie ,

I have no easy solutions.

There’s an easy one that could be legislated tomorrow by any states.

Raise minimum wages and enforce it throughout ALL workplaces, including wait staff. Nobody should be earning less than a living wage just because they’re restaraunt staff.

greedytacothief ,

Politics is one of those things that’s easy when you say it, but much harder for you to do. But if that’s easy for you to do, then please do it, for all our sakes.

Patches ,

Nobody would work in a restaurant for minimum wage. Full stop. It’s a shit job.

That’s the secret nobody in the industry wants to tell you. They make way more than minimum wage on good nights. You could come away at $25-30/hr on a Friday night.

Tremble ,

Which is what workers at McDonald’s in other countries make per hour, not including benefits. Oh, and the food is cheaper than in the states too.

Sprawlie ,

Absolutely. it’s a bad precedent.

Minimum wage staff still get tips though. I still tip here now that it’s mandatory they get paid min wage. Overall, means that they make more than before they were earning min wage as well.

it’s a big win. They ge ta living wage doing their jobs and they get bonuses in tips on top of their living wage instead of relying upon it.

cole ,
@cole@lemdro.id avatar

Seattle’s minimum wage is $16.28, but most restaurants seem to pay a fair bit more than that. Tipping is still rampant and has not been reduced. I don’t think this solution would work

danc4498 ,

I think the $20 vs $200 was a per person price. Like, if I order the steak for $50 and you order a grilled cheese sandwich for $8, we both got the same amount and quality of service, why do we tip differently?

betheydocrime ,

Serving a $200 meal requires a lot of knowledge and physical skill that the server down at Chili’s probably doesn’t have. The kind of restaurant that sells a $200 meal also has a larger support staff that must be given a percentage of the server’s tip

NoIWontPickaName ,

What difference is there between serving a $200 meal and a $50 one?

_number8_ ,

pretension

GBU_28 ,

Are number of items fixed in your question?

If so, little mechanically on the waiters part.

But, a more expensive meal comes with higher service standards. More attentive, but not intrusive. More knowledgeable about the menu. More readiness to make adjustments based on customer need.

So in that situation you are asking for a more experienced, or more skillfully employee, and that costs more.

usualsuspect191 ,

I’d argue the skill difference matters much more in the kitchen, yet they only see a tiny percentage of the tips if they’re lucky

NoIWontPickaName ,

Ah see, to me their whole job is bringing me food, keeping my drink from being empty, and not being rude.

I don’t need all the pomp, I go to a restaurant for the food.

The funny part is you are effectively paying twice for that since the restaurant has increased the price of the food to account for all the pomp.

betheydocrime ,

I think you’re looking for the difference between fine dining and nouvelle cuisine / haute cuisine. Think of it like the difference between a nice steakhouse where the server essentially takes your order and gives you a plate, and one of those Instagram dinners where they serve your dessert in hollow chocolate balls and serving is a more involved and delicate process because of the nature of the food you’re serving

NoIWontPickaName ,

I have a place down the road that makes guacamole in a molcajete at the table.

That is way harder and more impressive than pouring a little hot chocolate.

If you can scam them into paying it then more power to you though.

betheydocrime ,

Sounds like that server deserves a generous tip, I hope you take good care of them :)

asteriskeverything ,

You’re not wrong, that’s the logic behind it. It’s not like you’re defending it so idk why you’re getting down voted! What you also didn’t mention is that at these restaurants is that it is a much more leisurely meal and experience, so there isn’t high table turnover which lessens the tips. I suspect they also have smaller sections.

dream_weasel ,

You’re the only one who gets it.

Everything is probably a la carte. You gotta know what is in every dish, what pairs with it from appetizers to sides to wine to dessert. You don’t walk out and ask “who had the cheeseburger?” because the expectation on the experience is higher. You’re controlling the timing at the table as well. When do you fire the main after they get the appetizer? Salad? Bread? Drinks? Which SIDE of the person do you give or remove plates? And yeah you gotta tip the bartender, the bussers, the expediters sometimes, and who knows who else.

It is still horseshit, but it’s not as easy as dropping a rib basket on the table.

Be mad about the tip line on the sandwich shop menu, be mad about 20% tip on the burger joint that has a modern industrial interior and a $22 burger, don’t be mad about paying out the Friday Saturday night white tablecloth servers with a tough fucking job of conducting your whole anniversary meal. You get to have a good experience once a year, they’ve got 15 other once a year meals to solve and it’s just a regular dinner shift.

pjwestin ,
@pjwestin@lemmy.world avatar

I’d say you also shouldn’t be made at the server at the $22 burger place, because they’re also working hard and probably covering more tables. I used to get mad about tipping for counter service because I assumed that they were making standard minimum wage, but then I found out one of my favorite cafes was paying $5 an hour (a dollar less than tipped minimum in my state). Point is, don’t get mad at anyone but the National Restaurant Association, they’re fighting to make sure you’re subsidizing your servers wage.

Imgonnatrythis ,

If you are are trying to find logic within tipping you might as well chase windmills. It’s dumb as bolts.

EdibleFriend ,
@EdibleFriend@lemmy.world avatar

Chasing a windmill would be really easy tho.

lobut ,

Just don’t get chasing waterfalls though.

EdibleFriend ,
@EdibleFriend@lemmy.world avatar

On the other hand rivers and lakes are so stupid.

Wogi ,

Because it’s a con, and if it were a flat rate, people would see it for the con it is. By making it a percentage of sales, you can delude people in to believing they’re going to make more in tips than they would on an hourly rate.

Sometimes that’s true, for the vast majority of servers it isn’t.

Rentlar ,

I see it as a sneaky incentive from management for waiters to upsell you on more sides, drinks and desserts.

Since the more marked up extras a waiter/waitress can fool people into getting, the better tip they can hope to earn at the end because of the %-based expectation.

Patches ,

deleted_by_author

    •
    Mirodir ,

    Not every meal in a “$x/plate” restaurant is gonna cost the same though. It’s not hard to reach a disparity between the cheapest and most expensive reasonable meal (similar sizes) of around a factor of 2 at many restaurants.

    Why is the server getting twice the tip if I order the most expensive plate and dessert vs cheapest plate and dessert?

    GBU_28 ,

    Each plate of food or drink is a transaction, each with expectations of quality, and expectations on the waiter to make it right.

    hark ,
    @hark@lemmy.world avatar

    Make what right? They’re just bringing it to my table. If the food or service sucks I’m also told that you should tip anyway, so it seems like tipping isn’t based on quality (and really, it isn’t).

    pjwestin ,
    @pjwestin@lemmy.world avatar

    $20 is like, one entree, maybe a beverage at a cheap restaurant. $200 is probably closer to 3 entrees, 2 or 3 cocktails and an app at a moderately priced restaurant. You’re crazy if you think the amount of work for those two orders (putting them into the bar/kitchen, making sure they come out correct, running them, all while juggling your other tables) is equal. I also want tipping culture to end, but the price tag scales pretty well with the amount of work being done.

    wer2 ,

    Waffle House: feed a family of 4 for $20 Tip: $4 “Fancy” Restaurant: microwaved appetizer $20 Tip: $5

    A percentage scales within an establishment, but not really across them.

    pjwestin ,
    @pjwestin@lemmy.world avatar

    I’d say that varies more regionally than anything else. I live in a major northeastern city, and you could barely feed 1 person for $20, even at cheap chain restaurants. Drive 2 hours away and things get a lot more affordable, not only for food prices but also rent. In that respect, 20% actually scales with cost of living as well.

    player2 ,

    It mostly bothers me when I just order 1 entree and a water. At one place that might cost $10, and at another place it might cost $30, and all the wait staff did was carry a plate from the kitchen to me in both cases.

    It doesn’t seem fair that the wait staff at the more expensive place gets tipped more than the less expensive place just because of an arbitrary custom.

    The extra cost of the expensive meal is mostly due to ingredients, the cooking process, the location, and maaay slightly more complicated table setting.

    pjwestin ,
    @pjwestin@lemmy.world avatar

    Yeah, I agree, but if you don’t like it, take it up with the National Restaurant Association. They spend millions every year lobbying against ending the tipped wage.

    auraness ,

    That’s insane. It’s literally the job. Imagine applying this logic to any service industry job.

    pjwestin ,
    @pjwestin@lemmy.world avatar

    Yeah, I know. As is said, I want tipping culture to end. We’ve created a system where the customer pays for servers salary by the job instead of the restaurant paying by the hour. I’m saying that running a $200 order is more work than running a $20 order, just like bagging $200 worth of groceries is more work than bagging $20 worth of groceries. A percentage tip does roughly reflect the amount of work being done, but acknowledging that isn’t an endorsement of tipping culture.

    TheLowestStone ,
    @TheLowestStone@lemmy.world avatar

    If you’re getting the same level of service at a restaurant serving $200/plate meals as you are at TGI Fridays, either you’re being ripped off of your local Fridays has amazing servers.

    betheydocrime ,

    Tipping service workers is one of the very few times in our life when we can say “The people directly serving me deserve to get paid more, and while I can’t raise their wage, I can at least make sure they’re getting paid well while they serve me” and the fact that people are upset about that and actively refuse to tip is just crazy to me.

    Like, there is no ethical consumption under capitalism, but tipping generously is one of the times when we can come pretty close! Maybe instead of having a $70 meal on the brink of a recession, have a $50 meal and tip up to the $70 that’s in your budget?

    normanwall ,

    And just think, they could all get paid properly if the restaurants just included those tips in the prices instead of playing this stupid fucking tipping game

    SpaceNoodle ,

    Yes, that would be ideal. Since that’s not currently the case at all establishments, we can take other steps.

    betheydocrime ,

    Yep! The people directly serving us deserve to get paid more, and while we can’t raise their wage, we can at least make sure they’re getting paid well while they serve us.

    SpaceNoodle ,

    It’s sad how much flak you’re getting for this reasonable take. I’m lucky enough to be able to afford eating out a couple times a week, and I’m not scared of sharing a bit of my wealth with the neighborhood.

    betheydocrime ,

    Right!? If you’re lucky enough to be financially secure right now, tipping can even be seen as a form of mutual aid!

    Serinus ,

    It’s the last bit. His first paragraph is a good outlook. Encouraging everyone to tip 25-50% is insane and stupid.

    People tend to vote based on the worst part of a comment.

    betheydocrime ,

    Please don’t put words in my mouth. When did I ever say 50%? Someone else botched their math and got to that number, and I even took the time to explain why their math was wrong. I have only told others to “tip generously”, to always include a tip in their budget while dining out, and in your specific case to tip more than 15%. Even in the offhand example I gave that you think is so insane and stupid, it only comes out to a 33% tip. The people who do the lion’s share of the actual labor deserve the lion’s share of the profits, and there’s nothing insane or stupid about that.

    NoIWontPickaName ,

    Are you tipping 50%?

    betheydocrime ,

    I aim for 25-30% tip when I get standard service and when there aren’t any comped apps/drinks/desserts. If the server is amazing or if they’re giving us free stuff, I give more. 50% is very rare for me to hit, but I did leave 50% at a family dinner a few weeks ago.

    Why did you ask about 50% specifically?

    NoIWontPickaName ,

    Your example is a $20 tip on a $50 bill.

    $70 meal to $50 meal is a $20 difference and you said to use the difference.

    I guess 40% is the actual number but it was close enough for a random internet discussion. Lol

    betheydocrime ,

    A $50 meal has sales tax, as well. Tipping up to $70 means the server gets $15-16-- which is a 33% tip.

    NoIWontPickaName ,

    You are changing from a $70 meal and a $50 meal to a $50 meal rounding up to $70.

    There is sales tax on the $70 meal at the same percentage.

    betheydocrime ,

    I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying

    NoIWontPickaName ,

    You forgot that tax would be included at the same rate on a $70 meal as a $50.

    You can’t use tax as an excuse on the 50 since the 70 would have it too.

    betheydocrime ,

    I guess I don’t understand you because I don’t understand how your point is relevant. I didn’t forget tax because tax isn’t relevant to the original image. It only brings up a 25% tip on a total of $70, and “tipping up” to a total sum is never discussed.

    On the other hand, my proposed solution involves “tipping up” to a sum, which means tax must be considered if you’re going to take the time to calculate the exact tip percentage.

    And also, “an excuse”? I’m sorry to ask so bluntly, but that word choice makes me wonder: do you view this conversation as a competition?

    Serinus ,

    Yeah, either that’s pretty dumb or you’re pretty wealthy.

    A standard tip is 15%. Up to 20% is reasonable. Anything more is generosity, and should never be expected.

    The thing about inflation is that 15% of a larger number is a larger number. Inflation is built in, and you don’t need to add it twice.

    Not everybody can be remembered as the guy who gives good tips. That’s not how it works.

    betheydocrime ,

    I make $1 above minimum wage in Los Angeles, so I’m wealthy in a global sense but poor in a local sense. I just live a frugal life with few expenses or vices beyond gaming and smoking, and that’s what enables me to tip generously and give to mutual aid groups. I probably eat out less often than the average American, and I don’t own a car, but I’m OK with losing those things. I am able and willing to make those sacrifices, so I do so. If you’re not able or not willing to make those sacrifices, that’s your choice, but don’t take the consequences of your choice out on the people who are on the bottom rung of society. That’s just gross.

    Serinus ,

    Tipping 15% isn’t “taking your choice out” on anyone. 15% is a fine and normal tip.

    betheydocrime ,

    Maybe it used to be decades ago when we first formed our opinions about this stuff, but times have changed since then. Rent has done nothing but go up, while the federal minimum wage has been $7.25/hour since 2009 and the federal tipped minimum wage has been $2.13/hour since 1991. That 15% you gave in 2010 was used for cigarettes and drinks after work, maybe coffee the next morning, maybe putting a little bit into savings or paying for college. Today, that 15% is used for rent. Rent and gas. Rent and gas and maybe childcare. Tipping more than 15% is our way to actually tell someone that they deserve more than just the necessities–and I don’t mean telling them with words or with comments on Lemmy, I mean telling them with action.

    Rediphile ,

    I can’t bring my self to encourage people to work stupid fucking jobs that pay $2.13 or whatever. Have some fucking self respect.

    betheydocrime ,

    Whether you respect them or not, those jobs still must exist until they are automated away. Casual dining and fine dining restaurants can’t operate without servers–if that was possible, The Invisible Hand Of The Free Market would have eliminated that position centuries ago.

    Rediphile ,

    I’m saying they need to have some respect for themselves and refuse bullshit ass pay like that. And the vast majority of civilized nations have servers just fine without tipping/bull shit poverty wages. Service is better too.

    betheydocrime ,

    I understand what you’re saying, and what you’re saying is only concerned with individuals, not systems.

    What I’m saying is that regardless of how many individual people turn that job down, the job listing at that wage will still exist. Eventually, someone who is down on their luck will become desperate enough to take it because they don’t have any other options left.

    They could be homeless people trying to afford the deposit on an apartment, or single dads trying to pay for field trips for their kids, or ex-cons locked out of conventional employment trying desperately to earn an honest living, or college students trying to buy one used textbook, or even uneducated twenty-somethings trying to build work history so they can stop working for tips.

    All of those desperate people, the people who have no choice but to tolerate the wage that you have too much self-respect to accept–they deserve nice things too. Their boss is a greedy, insufferable bastard who is willing to pay them the minimum that he is legally required to. If he could pay his employees less, he would do it in a heartbeat. By refusing to tip, you are climbing in to the same boat he’s in, no matter what ideology you shout as you clamber over the gunwales.

    Rediphile ,

    Again, the vast majority of places don’t have this issue of tipping at all.

    Capitalism brutally forcing people into work they would otherwise not choose sadly happens almost everywhere, but tipping does not.

    betheydocrime ,

    If all you’re going to do is repeat ideologies while ignoring material conditions, then that’s your call, but I’m done spending my time with you if that’s your choice.

    fathog ,

    Bro is an idiot without an ounce of empathy who has clearly never had to work a service job a day in their lives. I’m with you ms docrime

    Rediphile ,

    I’m against tipping specifically because of having worked in food service jobs. I’m sorry if that doesn’t fit your narrative. And neither of you have meaningfully responded to why the rest of the world manages fine without tipping, which really says it all.

    fathog ,

    If you’re going out to eat and not tipping, I truly don’t believe you have worked at a food service job. Full stop.

    Tipping is a construct of capitalism that allows owners to shunt the burden of paying their workers to the customer. Yes, it’s fucked. This does not change the fact that if a server waits on your bum ass for an hour, and you don’t tip, they probably made about $3 while serving you. It’s basic human respect to compensate someone for that - and while it’s fucked that the burden falls on you, that’s the name of the game in America.

    Don’t go out to eat if you don’t want to tip.

    Rediphile ,

    While serving, I highly disliked the wildly inconsistent pay I received due to the tipping system. It makes paying rent on time hard. It’s honestly a really shitty way to live, which if you worked as server you would also know. Yeah getting $100 tip randomly is a cool surprise, no disagreements there … But it can’t be relied upon.

    Also, still no comment on how the rest of the civilized world does just fine without tipping?

    And lastly, no thank you. I’m going to continue to go out and not tip. Not only that, I’m going to continue to encourage others to do the same.

    It’s working. Growing numbers if both servers and customers are becoming more and more sick of this bullshit and the tide is shifting.

    fathog ,

    Bro you’re straight up just lying. It’s so clear that you have no idea what being a server is like, because believe it or not, you do actually make pretty decent money (a hell of a lot more than working the check stand at a grocery store). This is part of the discussion that is actually worth having, because similar to nurses who don’t want universal health care, there are a lot of people in the service industry who like the tipping system.

    Sure, here’s how “the rest of the civilized world works”: people pay their fucking employees. America is broken.

    Your limp dick protest does nothing except hurt employees. The owners still make the exact same amount from you, and the lower class gets fucked.

    Since you seem to have reading comprehension issues, let me make this clear:

    • I do not support tipping
    • Not tipping is taking it out on the person who’s vulnerable
    • Therefore, if I don’t feel like tipping, I do not go out

    It’s not working, the wage divide is getting larger, and you’re a heartless idiot who very likely is eating a lot of spit. Because, as you should know since you “worked service”, people talk and know if a customer is going to stiff them.

    Rediphile ,

    I didn’t ignore the material conditions you stated, I actually reaffirmed them.

    You however did ignore my point about the rest of the world who manages without tipping.

    Sprawlie ,

    This is ridiculous amount to tip. Good on you for being frivolous and not caring how much you spend, but understand that by your further escalation of tipping you are directly contributing to the businesses that are getting away with it.

    Not 10 years ago, expected tipping was 10-15%. Now you’re throwing 25-30? Or 50? you realize how unstable, unrealistic and how bad a precedent that is setting?

    betheydocrime ,

    It’s not a ridiculous amount to tip, but explaining why it’s reasonable requires an understanding of what commodity fetishism is. Are you already familiar with the term? If not, would you be willing to read a description of what it is if I typed one up for you?

    Rediphile ,

    No fucking way someone with an understanding of Marxist sociology supports tipping. Not a fucking chance. I’m so confused right now.

    betheydocrime ,

    Socialist theory is great, but material conditions don’t care about our ideologies :) I use Marxism and socialism to help myself understand why I feel so alienated and to help fight those feelings, but I still understand that every worker in America lives as an exploited laborer under capitalism. I’m not wealthy or politically powerful or willing to use violence to enforce my views, so my praxis must be aimed at helping the little people until we have enough of a leftist coalition to take on the bigger issues.

    Essentially, I’m not big enough to change the world for the better all on my own, but I can change the parts of it that I can reach out and touch with my hands, so why shouldn’t I?

    Rediphile ,

    You should, by not tipping, which will help create positive social change.

    betheydocrime ,

    [email protected] typed up the perfect response to this in another thread, let me copypasta their comment for you:

    you are proposing that if we all stop tipping, companies will be motivated to pay their workers; you are correct, this is what would happen if we all stopped tipping at the same time.

    this process is known as collective action. it is incredibly important to remember that collective action only works when it actually happens. in other words, your individual action of not tipping your waiter is ONLY beneficial to your waiter if you can make sure one else tips either.

    do you have this power? (i think you don’t; if you do i beg of you to exercise it lol.)

    now consider who actually holds the power here. at any point, your restaurant’s owner could institute a no-tip policy, thereby ensuring that no one has to tip, ever. several restaurants already have done this, and it works. now, you might (correctly) note that this may gives an unfair advantage to other competing restaurants who do not implement no-tip policy. this is where local and regional policy can come in to help coordinate transitioning to a more helpful model of compensating employees.

    so there’s kind of this imbalance, where yeah technically it’s possible for us as eaters of food to “fix” the tipping problem, but its way way easier for the people in charge (whether that’s government or owners) to fix it, because they have the power of coordination on their side.

    tldr, tip your waiters and advocate for anti-tipping policies if you want to maximize long term benefits for everyone.

    Rediphile ,

    Yeah, guess people shouldn’t vote in elections either since their vote doesn’t single handedly settle the election. What an absurdly stupid position to hide behind.

    Relying on restaurant owners to ‘do the right thing’ without any incentive to do so is extremely naive. And they just, don’t. Look around. They could but they don’t.

    betheydocrime ,

    this is where local and regional policy can come in to help coordinate transitioning to a more helpful model of compensating employees.

    The answer to your criticism is in the very next sentence of the paragraph that you object to.

    Rediphile ,

    I said owners, but should have been more clear and stated both owners and politicians are not taking action. I don’t expect them to anytime soon without incentives.

    31337 ,

    It just incentivizes being an asshole. Assholes give zero tips and get to keep more of their money, while normal people have to pay the empathy tax.

    audin ,

    if your job does not pay a livable wage without begging then maybe get another job

    explodicle ,

    They (and many others) are getting paid below a living wage because that was the best job they could get. The wage problem isn’t our fellow workers failing to hustle harder, it’s systematic oppression of organized labor.

    LemmyIsFantastic ,

    Never once have I had any person be rude to me for a 20% tip.

    Maggoty ,

    If you can’t afford the bill then don’t eat there. That sucks to hear I know. However the only way we’re going to reign in costs is by sticking to what’s affordable. If restaurants can’t charge that price then food distributors have to lower prices too. We all benefit by sticking to affordability.

    If you’re worried about money you absolutely should open up the restaurant’s menu on their website or before you order and figure out what you can afford with a 20% surcharge. That said tipping was created by the industry to externalize costs and it needs to go die in a fire.

    Frozengyro ,

    I think the point isn’t about the bill but the expectation of massive tips. It’s too out of control to me, I used to tip 20% everywhere. Now I’ve gone back to 15% for regular service, and 20% if it’s really exceptional.

    dadarobot ,
    @dadarobot@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    20% minimum unless the service is horrible. It’s not your fault the servers are paid BELOW minimum wage because the employer expects you to tip. But it nonetheless is the expectation and is the right thing to do. If you can’t afford to tip correctly you can’t afford to eat out.

    To be clear, i think we should get rid of tipping economy, but while it is the norm, you absolutely have to tip.

    can ,

    It’s not your fault the servers are paid BELOW minimum wage because the employer expects you to tip.

    That’s not the case in canada (obligatory excluding Québec) yet we still have the same tipping expectation.

    usualsuspect191 ,

    Yet one of the other awful cultural things getting exported from south of the border

    can ,

    The states’ #1 export

    hemko ,

    Tip is a extra for exceptional service, paid voluntarily on top of the base cost of the service.

    Sprawlie ,

    Sure, but on the flip side, I’m paying for the service already. It’s not on us to subsidize the cost.

    TIpping was meant and should only be done as a reward for job well done. Not a defacto standard expectation just because you did your job.

    That’s what your pay is.

    NOW, go fight for better wages. Unionize, promote higher minimum wages, be the change you want to see. But sitting here and bitching out customers because they don’t tip is a you problem.

    Maggoty ,

    It was popularized during world war 2 as an economic and pro business measure. That’s why we have the modern system.

    asteriskeverything ,

    Some states honor the state minimum wage which is higher than federal and the tips really are just extra. Just so you know, whatever it’s worth to you.

    Zibitee ,

    At what point did this minimum change from 10 to 15 to 18 and now 20? Restaurants increase the cost of food items and your tip is a proportion of that. Why would the cost of food increase AND the proportion of tip also increase? That’s double dipping and yeah, people should be pissed about it

    Maggoty ,

    Because in many restaurants tipping is covering more employees over the same period. Also, COL went up faster than meal price inflation.

    Zibitee ,

    What does covering more employees over the same period mean? I don’t follow. Also, you’re assuming that customers’ salaries increased with COL and inflation. They haven’t. These policies just squeeze value out of customers. Of course they’re offended

    Maggoty ,

    So tips used to just go to the worker who got them. But now they go to nearly everyone at the restaurant. Your server has to tip out quite a few other people.

    And yeah we know the rising prices are squeezing value of customers, but those prices are largely disconnected from the staff’s wages. Which is why the percentage has to go up.

    _tezz ,

    Is this not even worse double-dipping? Why would a server who makes $3/hr be expected to tip out the rest of the restaurant? That’s the point of being able to pay them $3/hr no?

    Wages being disconnected from company earnings is an even bigger reason for us to insist the percentage NOT go up…

    Maggoty ,

    Because the restaurant owner can enforce it legally and now they don’t have to pay the cooks/host/bartender as much anymore.

    Zibitee ,

    No, rising prices of menu items increases tips as a proportion. If menu prices stayed the same and you want larger tip %, then sure. But not both. That’s just greedy

    Maggoty ,

    Well Cost of living going up plus spreading that money out means they still needed the larger percentage.

    Zibitee ,

    That’s no excuse. Scummy practices are scummy

    agamemnonymous ,
    @agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works avatar

    “20% minimum” is excessive, I say this as someone with years of serving experience.

    15% for competent but unremarkable service

    20% for remarkably good service, more for truly excellent service

    10% for remarkably bad service, less for truly horrible service

    Donebrach ,
    @Donebrach@lemmy.world avatar

    I question when your “years of serving experience” was rendered.

    littletranspunk ,

    I only disagree with the “unless” clause. If they’re underpaid and the restaurant is doing it because they won’t be at fault then you should tip that much anyway.

    At the least they will get more money and remember you as a temporary savior for better service next time. The unless clause basically just tells me “dance for your meal, peasant”

    michaelmrose ,

    In many places including Washington state servers are actually paid minimum wage of a bit over $16 an hour. We also have pervasive tip requests. I have gone to a restaurant where ordering and drinks was self serve, the employee makes you a hot sandwich which you take to go and the robot which takes your order requests a default 20% tip.

    Maggoty ,

    If that’s a tablet that comes with the software pre-installed they ask for tips by default because it makes more money for the software company.

    michaelmrose ,

    It’s highly unlikely that a POS terminal software directs tip money directly to the software company. Hopefully tips are shared by staff. Pessemistically they could be stolen by the company. In either case it doesn’t match the normal expectation of tipped service.

    Maggoty ,

    Those terminals take a percentage of everything that goes through them.

    michaelmrose ,

    They don’t collect tips for the terminal holder

    Maggoty ,

    They don’t differentiate. They take a percentage of the whole transaction. Thus it’s profitable for them to default to a tip screen.

    Voyajer ,
    @Voyajer@lemmy.world avatar

    Unless something changed recently, Square doesn’t enable tips by default. It didn’t the last time I set one up at least in the fall.

    Maggoty ,

    Maybe Square is the odd one out, but a quick trip around Google search says yes it’s generally the default. It can be turned off but why would a business owner do that?

    mayo ,
    @mayo@lemmy.world avatar

    The entitlement from servers is horrendous.

    10-15% and if you don’t like it you can have zero.

    Worth mentioning there is a big diff between USA and Canada. US is fucked and I have no comments about tipping there.

    Maggoty ,

    I’ve never had anyone say anything about a 15-20% tip.

    reversebananimals ,

    I don’t eat out at resturants ever - and guess what! When that happens, they bitch and moan about my not supporting local businesses, and steal millions in PPP loans!

    Bonskreeskreeskree ,

    You’ll hate to hear this, but restaurants struggling to fill positions and having to offer more benefits and pay to attract wait staff is the only way to end tipping culture. Tipping will never end itself.

    Maggoty ,

    We can also straight up ban it. But yeah I know businesses aren’t just going to willingly stop it.

    asteriskeverything ,

    25% ??! Damn I remember when it was 10%, or maybe just the tax if you were cheap. The American public is way better at giving underpaid workers wages that keep up with inflation than the government!

    explodicle ,

    But a fixed percentage already includes inflation

    doingless ,

    There are places where sales tax is around 15% too.

    EmperorHenry ,
    @EmperorHenry@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

    “On the verge” of a recession? What the fuck planet are you living on?

    Pilon23 ,

    Planet earth’s been on the verge of a recession since 4bya. Various economists have been able to predict a recession every year since the term was invented. Stay safe

    superduperenigma ,

    Michael Burry has successfully predicted 92 of the last 3 recessions.

    superduperenigma ,

    “No need to worry, citizen! We have once again successfully avoided a recession by changing how a recession is defined!”

    EmperorHenry ,
    @EmperorHenry@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

    Pretty much.

    DragonTypeWyvern ,

    How can it be a recession when the .01% is richer than ever before?

    someacnt_ ,

    Well, are we in a recession? Because it does not seem like it for many people, not just 1%.

    kautau ,

    What do you mean? Corporate profits are higher than they’ve ever been!

    /s in case that wasn’t obvious

    PatMustard ,

    Recession has a specific definition. Unless you’ve had however many quarters of negative growth or bad GDP or however the fuck economists define it then you’re not in recession.

    dangblingus ,

    They’ve changed the definition of recession like 5 times in the past 3 years. We’ve had numerous consecutive quarters with negative GDP growth.

    PatMustard ,

    Based on my quick search I’m assuming by “they” you mean the NBER and by “we” you mean the USA? It seems the rest of us have agreed on the definition being 2 quarters.

    FeelzGoodMan420 ,

    I like how i said the same thing but got downvoted lol. What is the matter with this place?

    mvirts ,

    When times are tough dont eat out if you cant tip (at least while your jurisdiction allows exploitation of tipped workers)

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