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woodenskewer OP ,
@woodenskewer@lemmy.world avatar

I don’t know how to edit the main post on mobile so I’ll just add this comment. The message I typed in the screenshot populates in a “pop up bar”. The message no longer gets entered where you think it should go and it looks like shit and takes up extra screen space for no reason. I really dislike this change.

woodenskewer OP ,
@woodenskewer@lemmy.world avatar

They fixed it. It’s back to normal now.

askat ,
@askat@programming.dev avatar

Maybe they reserve that space for future AI suggestions?

Liz ,

Almost certainly the answer. Same reason they just hobbled their “ok Google” by not letting you access it with the screen off anymore. They’re going to switch engines and they want to reintroduce the same features all over again but make it feel like an upgrade.

skuzz ,

“We can’t remember what happened last quarter, so surely our users won’t remember how their phones used to be better! Genius! Moving on, time to go make and destroy a new app, how about a notepad app this time?” --Google

loudambiance ,

On the new pixels, as you start typing you get some AI tools that will rewrite your message, make suggestions, etc

MetricIsRight ,

Pixel 7 Pro here, haven’t seen this at all, it’s just dead space for me.

guyinachair ,

The 7 isn’t new anymore. That person meant the 8

hank_and_deans ,

Pixel 8 pro here. I haven’t seen it either.

guyinachair ,

A tragedy. I hate that little useless space. Those features should be on Gboard not messages

ramjambamalam ,

Apparently Textra itself doesn’t support desktop sync like Google’s app, but there are workarounds.

However, does Textra support RCS?

kilgore_trout ,

It doesn’t support RCS because Google’s implementation of it (with encryption) is not open.

skuzz ,

What a weird evil slow burn Google is doing. AOSP used to be an entire open phone operating system for the most part, (aside from binary driver blobs and some DRM stuff) but with each passing year, they close-source everything. It used to be a big proud point Android users celebrated, “oh well I can go read my source code, unlike iOS!” Annnnd…nope.

I want a new mobile OS to replace the shit sandwich of Gappleoogle.

kilgore_trout ,

LineageOS is mostly AOSP and little Google stuff, which anyway you can remove without breaking the OS.

You can use an Android phone without reliance on Google, but it’s quite some effort and possibly invalidates warranty.

corgi ,

This doesn’t seem correct. RCS is supposed to be supported by you mobile provider, if it isn’t only then your messaging app on Android will use Google’s service. The whole protocol was meant to be open to entice companies to adopt it.

I understand Google dropped don’t be evil, but they are not a villain in every story.

Racle ,
@Racle@sopuli.xyz avatar

Just out of curiosity, how much people still use SMS? I can’t remember last time I sent SMS.

Here in Finland we use mainly Whatsapp, FB Messenger, Telegram or Signal for messaging. Almost no one I know has sent SMS in the last 10 years.

dodos ,

The US seems to primarily still use sms. I’ve heard it’s tied to having unlimited messaging phone plans being the norm, so people weren’t as drawn to other platforms.

Racle ,
@Racle@sopuli.xyz avatar

And US still has very expensive data plans compared to Finland (I pay 21e/month for unlimited 200mbps data, calls, sms). That could also be one factor why SMS is still used there so much 🤔

BearOfaTime ,

It’s really that SMS has been free since about 2008.

I don’t even think about my data usage, really. My plan is 10gb. That’s a lot for a phone, and I let it connect to certain wifi networks while out and about. Plus it uses a VPN and my apps encrypt data so it’s not really a concern.

akilou ,

Also, you don’t even need a platform at all. Just a phone and a phone number.

adchevrier ,

I’m in France and I still use sms. Unlimited sms became the norm well before data plans and messaging apps, and it’s much easier I can just text someone without having to look on which plateform they have an account. It’s like voice calls, for sure you can call someone on messenger or Whatsapp but why bother when I can just make a regular phone call?

Racle ,
@Racle@sopuli.xyz avatar

For voice calls, most use regular phone calls here, it just works better (and VoLTE/VoWiFi is great addition to sound quality). Apps are only used when you are making video calls.

As for messages, it’s much easier to send images/videos via whatsapp/signal than it’s via SMS. + replies/reactions. Probably main reason why people use apps instead SMS (even while many/most of our plans include unlimited data/sms/calls). RCS added those features IIRC, but why switch to another solution while apps works just fine and most of people already are used to Whatsapp 🤷‍♂️

And most of the people here has Whatsapp installed, so usually you don’t have to guess what app to use :P

Kusimulkku ,

Video calls, sending files though.

pewgar_seemsimandroid ,

in Estonia i occasionally send sms

deweydecibel , (edited )

It’s not a choice, here, so much as it is the result of our smartphone culture.

In the US, using the default messaging app on your phone is the norm for most people. Third party messaging apps like WhatsApp simply never caught on over here, so we’ve let Apple, Google, Samsung, etc determine how we talk to each other. Vendor lock-in tactics run rampant, with barely any regulation.

The default messaging apps on iPhone is iMessage. It’s locked down and can not communicate with any other messaging app except via SMS. Therefore the other apps have to use it to communicate with iPhone users.

Conversely, Google has a messaging protocol they’re trying to get Apple to adopt called RCS, but Google also refuses to let RCS be used by third party apps. So SMS becomes the fallback for communication between them.

It’s partially corporate bickering, partially consumers being tech illiterate and staunchly opposed to using anything third party. Particularly in the case of iPhone users, there’s a strong culture of entrenchment in the Apple ecosystem, and for some people, not being in it is actually seen as worthy of derision. There’s actual cases of bullying in schools if a kid doesn’t use iPhone, and that’s having an increasingly detrimental effect on the market.

You have to appreciate, in Europe, you’re mostly using Android, a (somewhat) open ecosystem, and that mentality is stronger over there.

But here in the states, iPhones are extremely prominent, and with them comes the mentality that Apple has spent decades programming into its consumers: don’t use anything non-Apple, and if that creates problems for other people, too bad, they should just buy Apple too.

BearOfaTime ,

Using SMS is largely because it’s been free on most vendors since about 2008. Just before smartphones took off, with everyone getting data plans which would enable proper messaging systems.

I’ve been running XMPP on my phone since 2010.

kick_out_the_jams ,

The default messaging apps on iPhone is iMessage. It’s locked down and can not communicate with any other messaging app except via SMS. Therefore the other apps have to use it to communicate with iPhone users, who you will never, ever convince to download a third party messaging app

One other thing is that none of the third party messaging apps can even use SMS. iOS is designed so that only Apple can use SMS.

kilgore_trout ,

I am familiar with the whole topic, but your summary is the best I’ve found, tackling objectively all the points of the issue.

if that creates problems for other people, too bad, they should just buy Apple too.

I believe this is a real quote from Tim Cook when prompted about RCS in iMessage.

WarmSoda ,

The US uses sms.

sanguinepar ,
@sanguinepar@lemmy.world avatar

UK here, I still use SMS for people who aren’t on Signal.

I don’t use WhatsApp and I’m on Android, so no iMessage, so SMS is the great leveller that will always work.

It’s a shame Signal dropped SMS fallback as it was really useful.

kilgore_trout ,

One of the issues they explained when they dropped SMS is that it was misleading to users to have unencrypted communications in an app that promotes privacy over all.

sanguinepar ,
@sanguinepar@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah, and to be fair, I see their point.

But I feel they could have done more to communicate to users that “this message will be encrypted” or “this message won’t be encrypted”. It’s their app though, so up to them I guess.

ikidd ,
@ikidd@lemmy.world avatar

Wouldn’t be an SMS discussion without someone patting themselves on the back because they use use some corpo app.

kilgore_trout ,

FB Messenger and Telegram are worse solutions, but Whatsapp is really no different from Google RCS. And Signal has almost no downside.

TheWorstMailman ,

I use the default Google messaging app, and am in the US. When sending to other Android users it uses RCS. The only time it sends as SMS/MMS is when messaging iPhones because Apple won’t support RCS

Anticorp ,

If I’m not mistaken then Apple can’t support RCS until Google opens it up. It’s a closed protocol tied to the Google Messaging app. Go look for another Android app that supports RCS. There are none. Okay, there’s one from an unknown company, with a bunch of bad reviews.

step6672 ,

In fact, Apple is implementing RCS in their messaging app: www.theverge.com/2023/…/apple-iphone-rcs-support

Anticorp ,

Well that’s out-fucking-standing!

Edit:

RCS will instead replace SMS and MMS and “exist separately from iMessage when available.”

Well, that’s kind of concerning for iMessage users. Will they completely lose SMS and MMS support? What about when the iMessage or RCS servers are unreachable?

Edit 2:

and it’s planning to file an appeal against the government’s regulation of its App Store

Does this mean they may not actually roll this feature out, or may yank it if they win their appeal?

step6672 ,

Well, that’s kind of concerning for iMessage users. Will they completely lose SMS and MMS support? What about when the iMessage or RCS servers are unreachable?

It’s pretty confusing, but I don’t think so. Read the last bit: “when available”. SMS and MMS will be available, but RCS will take priority over them when available.

Does this mean they may not actually roll this feature out, or may yank it if they win their appeal?

Nop, it’s the sideloading thing.

kilgore_trout ,

Their implementation will not feature E2E encryption.

step6672 ,

The only RCS implementation that has E2EE is Google Messages (well, pretty much the only one available, but anyways), RCS as a protocol doesn’t have it by default, right?

bigMouthCommie ,
@bigMouthCommie@kolektiva.social avatar

i thought rcs was developed by openwhisper for signal

step6672 ,

That’s the Signal Protocol. RCS is Google’s attempt to replace SMS/MMS

kilgore_trout ,

You are right.

nymwit ,

It’s weird because it is a standard but Google’s implementation is not really the standard. For insurance, the standard does not use end to end encryption, Google does. Their implementation also runs over their own Jibe servers rather than carrier stuff. You gotta be a Google bestie with muscle like Samsung to get your rcs client on Android seems like.

en.wikipedia.org/…/Rich_Communication_Services

skuzz ,

I think the real question is, why hasn’t there been a successful effort to properly modernize SMS. Having a standard service capable of messaging any mobile device without using a corporate crufty app the corps can glean all your data from seems the more logical choice. SMS itself will send even if you have a weak cellular connection without Internet data.

Universal standards are good for open communication. Every phone should be supporting the IMS video calling that has existed in the 3GPP spec since rel 99. (1999) as well.

How we got to this selective app hellscape instead of standard voice, video, text messaging is the real problem needing a solution.

Anticorp ,

Because the era of open communication is over. The era of proprietary tracking is here.

TonyOstrich ,

I only use SMS/RCS to talk to friends and family in text format here in the US.

Swarfega ,

I’m hoping RCS takes off. We need to step away from WhatsApp now it’s owned by Meta.

Anticorp ,

RCS will never take off as long as it is tied solely to Google Messages. If they want that to be the standard then they need to open it up.

IronKrill ,

Personally, as long as 1GB of data costs me an extra $10-15 a month and SMS is free, I ain’t switching to RCS.

Anticorp ,

This app also supports MMS and RCS, which are used by hundreds of millions of people every day.

Alexstarfire ,

You use 4 different apps to send messages while we mostly use one. Not sure that’s the win you think it is.

Racle ,
@Racle@sopuli.xyz avatar

Just to be clear, never said that I used all of those. Just made quick list of most popular apps to use here :P If I had to guess, over 95% of people here just use WhatsApp.

They all have pretty much same functionality what traditional sms is missing.

baduhai ,

It boggles my mind how people in the US still use SMS.

Fungah ,

I guess we cant all be enlightened enough to trust Facebook with everything.

Seasoned_Greetings ,

Based on experience dealing with people outside the US for my job, I’d say this person is implying whatsapp as the alternative.

I personally don’t see the point from within the states, given that whatsapp forces you to connect your number to it anyway.

lud ,

I use it because it is more convenient than chat apps.

It’s built-in and just works. It’s also platform independent. I only use it for family though. I use chat apps for friends because they don’t have my mobile number.

And SMS isn’t WhatsApp which is a great thing. Not that I know anyone except my mother that uses it.

Btw, I’m not in the USA.

thezeesystem ,

Fuckin annoying tbh. Can’t stand when giga corps do this and sense it’s required for rcs I can’t just go get a better foss alternative sense none of the people I text are tech savvy or able/willing to switch to something else and rcs is pretty essential for me knowing if someone read it or not.

If I could I would ditch all google and giga corps products but I’m way to poor to do that. And it’s so ingrained into society it’s hard to find anything that works with these proprietary shit.

pewgar_seemsimandroid ,

Linux is free ig

MangoPenguin ,
@MangoPenguin@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

It’s free as in money, but certainly not in time spent.

pewgar_seemsimandroid ,

linux mint exists btw

MangoPenguin ,
@MangoPenguin@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

My comment still applies, unless you just use some basic software and a browser, it takes more time investment to get things working and maintain it.

pewgar_seemsimandroid ,

the og comment is from a self clamed ‘tech savvy person’

skuzz ,

Linux on mobile is no good, and the devices it does run on do not support the proper bands and modes for usable coverage, if the carriers even allow the devices on their networks. (A more US problem all around.)

pewgar_seemsimandroid ,

dude, i was talking about desktop linux

Fuzzypyro ,

Pinephone pro had awesome cell coverage. Better than my pixel 4 xl even. Now battery life is a totally different story. I’d last I tried was pretty awful too as phosh wasn’t amazing and plasma mobile would kill itself often. It’s been at least a year since I last used any of it though since I left it 5 states away.

skuzz ,

Bear in mind, the signal “bars” are a relative measurement, the only way to be sure is to look at radio debug and see signal strength across all bands the phone is connected to at the time.

According to the FCC SAR report: …pine64.org/…/PinePhonePro SAR Evaluation Report-… it only supports LTE bands 2,4,5,12,13,41 in the US, which overall isn’t terrible.

However, that leaves out 14,25(superset of 2),26,29,30,46,48,66(superset of 4),71.

14 and 71 are necessary on AT&T or T-Mobile respectively for low band coverage in some markets where they don’t own band 12 spectrum, the others are more capacity bands on the various carriers, but with the shift to 5G, they’re more important on a phone that doesn’t support 5G like Pinephone Pro.

kilgore_trout ,

I don’t understand how is it essential to know if someone read your message. Shouldn’t they reply to you if they need to let you know?

Read confirmation is the first feature I disable on every instant messaging platform. Also delivery confirmation is implemented in standard SMS.

JDubbleu ,

It’s not just read receipts. It’s reactions, replies, and immensely better image quality.

kilgore_trout ,

The comment I replied to listed read confirmation as the only essential feature to them, that forbids them to drop Google Messages.

JDubbleu ,

My brain omitted that context for some reason, fair enough.

thezeesystem ,

Mainly because some of the people I know read it and don’t respond, for instance my partner coming home from work and me needing something at the store and she’s driving and can’t respond but pops up on her messages so she knows but can’t respond. It’s really helpful knowing they read it then me not sure wtf is going on.

Just a scenario riddled with probably lots of flaws but hopefully you get the point.

kilgore_trout ,

If she is driving she cannot click on the message or on “mark message as read” either.

Legally.

MrBusiness ,

Some car features allow you to connect your phone and you can have a message read aloud to you through voice command.

kilgore_trout ,

These cars would support Speech-To-Text too though, wouldn’t they

LotrOrc ,

I thought this was just me but I swear this is so fucking annoying

Completely unnecessary filler space

MellowSnow ,

Lol I’m glad other people are talking about it because same… I updated it and noticed immediately and thought it felt/looked a little odd. Here’s to hoping they listen to feedback if enough is provided! I’ve enjoyed the app, otherwise, for the RCS and what not.

Cringe2793 ,

While I agree this is bad, do people still use messages? In my country everyone uses WhatsApp or Telegram.

The only time I open the messages app is to get OTPs or something.

vala ,

Yeah SMS is used a lot in North America, especially in the US, and especially by older people.

CCF_100 ,

Yeah, that’s true. You don’t want to know how many times I’ve messaged someone on an arguably better platform only for them to say, “I prefer text”. It’s annoying…

jballs ,
@jballs@sh.itjust.works avatar

I believe it’s due to North America making text messages free early on, while many other places charged for them. As a result, the culture of texting stuck.

QuillanFae ,

I would prefer to use a standardised, client–agnostic messaging protocol than anything that requires a specific app.

I stopped using WhatsApp because using a Meta product makes me feel icky. I use Telegram and Matrix to contact drug dealers. My work requires a combination of Google Chat, Teams and Slack. Some of my friends like to stick to Discord.

What would be really great is if we could all decide on one protocol for sending end–to–end encrypted text and media over HTTPS to a globally unique ID and have everyone use whatever client they like. Like SMTP but more streamlined and secure. Google, Apple, Samsung etc can ship devices with a default client, but allow users to install another one that they like more.

But OEMs don’t like things to be open. Apple has iMessage, Google has RCS, and Samsung probably does some bullshit I’m not aware of since committing to the Pixel life. So I will probably always have a folder with 15 different messaging apps.

FeatherConstrictor ,

Samsung is RCS as well, as far as I’m aware RCS is supposed to be a platform agnostic upgrade to MMS. Please correct me if I’m wrong but I thought RCS not being supported by iOS is simply because Apple won’t implement it.

moon ,

I’m not a fan either. I will swap to literally any FOSS texting app that supports RCS.

redcalcium ,

Is there any foss messaging app that support RCS though?

pewgar_seemsimandroid ,

not yet

kilgore_trout ,

Not ever, unless Google is forced to open it up.

pewgar_seemsimandroid ,

source?

kilgore_trout ,

Source: Google is not using standard RCS.

lemming741 ,

It’s so bad I uninstalled all updates and went back to the version that shipped with the phone. That got rid of it.

I tried to install other versions from apkmirror but the design has been in there a while and they turned it on server side. My P8 shipped with

messages.android _20230529_03_RCO1

and it’s gone for me.

Alexstarfire ,

Weird. My version is from 2 weeks ago and I don’t see it.

lemming741 ,

Verizon US Pixel 8 🤷🏻

camr_on ,
@camr_on@lemmy.world avatar

I love textra. I wish I could just get everyone on signal though

lemmyingly ,

I think the only downside to Textra is that it doesn’t support RCS - or I don’t believe it does. They have a newer app called Chomp SMS that does. I’m still using Textra because the only communication I get on it is from companies.

nymwit ,

Do you have information on it supporting rcs? I don’t see anything on the play store mentioning it. The first Google results I see say it doesn’t. Seems like it would be a big deal because if they did and would be prominently displayed as I thought only Google messages and Samsung messages supported rcs.

chomp.uservoice.com/…/1895488-rcs-implementation

lemmyingly ,

I think I’m mistaken. I have no idea where I got it from but I must have seen something to give me the illusion. Ignore what I said.

camr_on ,
@camr_on@lemmy.world avatar

I had no idea they had another texting app. I’ll have to check it out and compare

Pantherina ,

I will just drop this here:

Please dont let Google also scan your Messages?

iamnotdunningkruger ,

How do I turn this off? Google search results are of no help 🤔

Pantherina ,

Use a regular SMS app

bob_lemon ,

Like this one: github.com/FossifyOrg/Messages

Pantherina ,

I also like Deku SMS, its basically like “Silence” which implemented the Signal Protocol for SMS, but silence is unmaintained.

Both partners need to use the app to use encryption, but SMS are often accessible when cell data is used up or in areas with nearly no coveragem

trailblazer911 ,

Is there an alternative RCS App?

Pantherina ,

RCS is a very incomplete protocol, so the only good implementations are partly proprietary. Also it relies on centralized infrastructure afaik, and weird bureaucratical agreements with carriers.

No, and it seems pretty unlikely.

MIDItheKID ,

Okay, so I’m not crazy. I started seeing this today, and I had to stop and think “Wait, was this always here?”

SendMePhotos ,

Lmao same.

Nativeridge ,
@Nativeridge@aussie.zone avatar

bloody annoying and ugly

Maladius ,

Until I saw this post I thought my phone was just being buggy.

LiveLM ,

It’s impressive how modern companies with thousands of professional designers manage to make increasingly goofy designs lol

deweydecibel , (edited )

“Modern” (i.e. Apple-chasing) design seems to be hellbent on wasting as much screen space as possible.

OscarRobin ,

Apples actually generally pretty good at not wasting much screen space.

hglman ,

To prove yourself as a executive you have to make the company do stuff, so people come up with reasons to do wasteful things. It’s all a circle of shit people being shitty to get ahead.

brax ,

Can Textra handle RCS yet? I bought it ages ago but ditched it when it couldn’t handle RCS

davidgro ,

Nothing can without the blessing of Google, and so far that’s limited to Google Messages and Samsung Messages (whatever it’s called)

Kusimulkku ,

Great standard you got there. Fucking hell

GorgeousDumpsterFire ,

I’ve been reading articles for years about how Google say they’re going to open the RCS API to 3rd-Party apps but they have yet to do so.

ilovededyoupiggy ,
@ilovededyoupiggy@sh.itjust.works avatar

This is why I scoff every time Google takes jabs at Apple about iMessage. Pot, meet kettle. Until I can use rcs with Textra, they got no room to talk

rolling_resistance ,

They’re proobably working on how to track messages on the way, like “hey, wanna use RCS? here’s our com.google.rcs library”, which by coincidence sends every message to Google.

nymwit ,

Your cynicism is warranted but a big part of the advertised value is that their rcs implementation is end to end encrypted. Or they say it is, which presumably someone (not me!) would be able to verify.

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