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SloppyPuppy ,

Theyre stealing our jobs without even being here! /s

III ,

Maybe someone will catch on to who the actual enemy is here…

IzzyJ ,
@IzzyJ@lemmy.world avatar

Lol. Not the hicks. Theyll see foreigner and get pissy

feedum_sneedson ,

I HATE THE ANTICHRIST

intensely_human ,

Yeah it’s definitely dystopian that someone in the Philippines gets to earn a living 🙄

feedum_sneedson ,

Capitalism’s spatial fix.

rozodru ,

hope your job never gets offshored

you: “Yeah I lost my job, but hey, now someone in India gets to earn a living…can you help me prop up my cardboard box to keep the rain out? thanks.”

aidan ,

I agree it sucks that anyone would lose their job, but why is the default of people in the “west” having well paid, air conditioned jobs, and other people getting those jobs stealing from them.

explodicle ,

The default is locals having the job.

aidan ,

Why should it remain that way?

explodicle ,

Because the surplus from this change is going to the owner and not the workers.

aidan ,

It’s in NYC, I would not assume the owner is financially stable. Small businesses struggle because of two main costs, rent and labor

explodicle ,

Since we’re discussing the default, I’d assume average NYC everything. If a restaurant can’t afford to pay minimum wage for the area, then I wouldn’t assume their business is a good use of space.

aidan ,

XD

sunzu ,

How is this my problem?

Nobody ask how my budget at home work when I negotiate my salary.

Financial viability of a shiti business is the "owners" problem.

They never include me when they accounting them profits tho ;)

I wonder why dear?

aidan ,

Well, it’s your problem if they don’t employ you and you need a job I suppose. Or if you just like having non-mega corps in your neighborhood

sunzu ,

r if you just like having non-mega corps in your neighborhood

If you don't allow me to underpay workers, mega corps will ruin your neighborhoods, rheee

aidan ,

Depending on what you mean by underpay, possibly yeah it’ll contribute. Don’t look too much into the new CA restaurant worker minimum wage law.

Lyrl ,

Jobs are not a finite resource. If there is a pool of people who want to work, someone will find stuff to pay them to do.

I seriously would love for my entire current set of job responsibilities to be automated. There are a couple of value-adding full-time jobs’ worth of work I could be doing for my employer that are just being left on the table right now.

rozodru ,

Well this is just absolutely untrue. If there’s a pool of people who want to work then someone will just give them a job? what kind of magical unicorn world are you living in? So in your world unemployment rates just…don’t exist or are a fabrication? those people are just lazy?

If you got fired from your job and you couldn’t find another one, in your head, whose fault is that? yours? the mythical job provider who hasn’t blessed you with another?

If I ran a business and was provided the option of hiring you or someone in another country for peanuts, I’d tell you to kick grass.

But you want to work I hear you say! someone HAS to pay me to do something! nope, I’m not going to pay you, I’m going to pay this kid in India or his brother that just got off the plane half of what I would have to pay you.

Welcome to the real world.

match ,
@match@pawb.social avatar

it is not the way the world has to work just because it’s the way the world currently works

Lyrl ,

There will always be some level of unemployment (a percentage of people who want job a won’t have found one), but if automation made the unemployment rate permanently go up, all the people who used to hand knit socks who lost jobs to powered looms, all the people who used to drive plows with oxen who lost jobs to combines, all the blacksmiths who lost jobs to powered forges, and equivalent percentage of the population for subsequent generations forever would remain unemployed. And yet, somehow, subsequent generations have managed to mostly find jobs.

Twoafros ,

Are there movements in the US or globally to force all business into worker coops? Unions are good but I think this is their ultimate limitation, that employers can just offshore their jobs

31337 , (edited )

Argentina has somewhat of a history of workers seizing their factories. I think it would be extremely hard in the U.S. due to the well-funded police. Generally, I guess the movement would be “anarcho-syndicalism.”

Edit: misremembered worker factory takeovers in the past as occurring in Venezuela instead of Argentina.

Twoafros ,

Thanks. I didn’t know about Venezuela’s history at all. But I meant not more on a policy level to mandate that all companies must be owned equally by employees instead of shareholders

Chewget ,

They’ll send in the national guard

rodkaroma117 ,

Got some sources on that? I was born and raised there and all I can find is the government seizing factories, not the workers

Edit: some sources of my own

nbcnews.com/…/general-motors-says-venezuelan-offi…

…com.ar/…/las-expropiaciones-venezuela-ruta-direc…

31337 ,

Oh shit. Mixed it up with Argentina.

intensely_human ,

Forcing isn’t good.

iknowitwheniseeit ,

Forcing is absolutely good. We force companies to do all kinds of things, in terms of corporate governance (publicly traded companies must have their finances audited, for example), ownership (banks used to be prevented from buying stock so that they would not avoid calling in bad debt), and how they do business (collusion between big tech to keep salaries down for example).

sunzu , (edited )

Yeah because private Enterprise will be guided by the invisible hand to do the right thing

Aceticon ,

By that hyper-simplistic “logic” people shouldn’t be forced into prison if they murder someone.

Clearly some kinds of forcing in some situations are “good”, and if some are good but other not, that means the real discussion is all about “when is forcing right and when is it not?” something that childlike “logic” of yours doesn’t even begin to address.

aidan ,

Forcing to defend the lives of others, is very different from forcibly taking what belongs to others

butwhyishischinabook ,

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/47ac49e0-0293-43ec-ae95-234905142148.jpeg

hglman ,

The meme is right, the claim of belonging is complete bullshit. Your toothbrush and your home belong to you, a business involving multiple people belongs to everyone involved. The idea that it doesn’t is narcissism and evil.

aidan ,

Your toothbrush and your home belong to you, a business involving multiple people belongs to everyone involved.

You’re free to believe what you want, I’m personally a Lockean property rights enjoyer.

IzzyJ ,
@IzzyJ@lemmy.world avatar

Cringe and evil

aidan ,

I think stealing the labor of others is evil

IzzyJ ,
@IzzyJ@lemmy.world avatar

Said the guy advocating property rights

aidan ,

Yes

hglman ,

Funny bc thats in agreement with what I just said. Unless you think your home and toothbrush are not yours bc you didn’t make them.

aidan ,

It disagrees with the second statement not the first

hglman ,

Then clearly you don’t understand Lock then.

aidan ,

I don’t know, I do at least know his name

jlou ,

It rightfully belongs to the workers. The firm is basically a vehicle for appropriating the positive and negative product of production. The just basis of property is getting the positive and negative fruits of your labor (i.e. the labor theory of property). In a capitalist employer-employee relationship, the employer gets solely holds the whole product while workers are denied their claim to it despite it being a result of their labor.

@aboringdystopia

jlou ,

Yes:

https://www.abolishhumanrentals.org

@aboringdystopia

Twoafros ,

Thanks! First time hearing of this.

Microplasticbrain ,

Why not just have a kiosk at this point

BallsandBayonets ,

The monthly subscription to the kiosk software still costs more I bet.

uis ,

Right, Corpomerica will corpomerica

intensely_human ,

They do have a kiosk. Just one that’s supervised by someone in the Philippines

SeattleRain ,

"It’s stealing time!"

  • every semi competent criminal
Fedizen ,

this should be straight up illegal.

Wogi ,

It’s not only legal it’s effectively encouraged. Capitalism is a race to the bottom, regardless of consequences.

generichate1546 ,

When the supreme Court has their finger in the scale it makes everything feel fuckin hopeless

prole ,

They don’t help, sure, but this shit happens anyway in capitalism. It’s an inevitability.

intensely_human ,

Yeah it sucks how money flows to the people who can use it most under capitalism, without anyone having to force it to happen.

prole ,

Is this how you think capitalism works? Yikes.

IzzyJ ,
@IzzyJ@lemmy.world avatar

Capitalism is not a meritocracy the second someone fies and passes on their money

intensely_human ,

The person in the Philippines gets a good job out of this

b000rg , (edited )

They’re being paid minimum wage. It’s not a great job.

Edit: And apparently they split their tips with the people working in the restaurant too, so I really feel like this is just exploitation.

aidan ,

The minimum wage in the Phillipines is around $10 a day.

brbposting ,

If this is right:

https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/b2370b7b-4ac2-48a3-ae27-592c8c170973.png

Looks like the absolute max is less than $10, and the absolute minimum is less than six dollars.

  • $5.24 (306 PHP)
    to
  • $9.76 (570 PHP)

How come agricultural laborers get shafted? An immediate guess is the government trying to keep food costs down.

DragonTypeWyvern ,

This should result in community violence.

And009 ,

Resulted in community silence instead

intensely_human ,

We must be mistaken

Snowpix ,
@Snowpix@lemmy.ca avatar

Why does it seem that the ones who have everything have nothing inside, nothing inside?

SeattleRain ,

I think it is illegal. I thought you had to file a W2 for anyone working in the states.

RememberTheApollo_ ,

They are not physically in the US, and probably work listed as some sort of overseas contractor. Whatever wages they earn are from their employer who contracts for the restaurant.

That’s probably how it works.

BruceTwarzen ,

People should just not go there. But it’s america and they probably have 1dollar chicken nuggets or something.

Duamerthrax ,

I would probably just turn around if I saw and understood what I was looking at. Definitely wouldn’t go back a second time.

brbposting ,

If my initial reaction is “that’s too bad”, does it make me greedy?

Like, I don’t think US workers are more deserving as human beings than anyone else… but a part of me knows hardcore globalization would hurt people geographically close to me… I’m like some national relativist or something?

I feel like I should want everyone to win regardless of where they were born. And $3/hr is huge vs. the $6/day min wage in parts of PH. Know friends’ friends are farming rice for six bucks a day.

Fedizen , (edited )

the problem is it circumvents minimum wage laws. They’re employing a person so they should be paying them the appropriate wages to do business in new york or the US. They’re also benefitting from payroll/income taxes but not paying into the programs.

brbposting ,

Good point!

Are call centers the same way? And any company relying on Business Process Outsourcing (BPO) firms?

Would be a lotta layoffs overseas if we restricted all foreign labor making less than local minimum wage. Is that a fair trade off? (Not being facetious, genuine question again)

Oh one thing that’s kinda messed up is when tech companies go through consultancies to hire workers in India, the consulting companies take HALF!! Wild!

explodicle ,

Yes it is a fair tradeoff. Any time we make a law we’re raising the cost of goods and services here. If there’s no regulation or import taxes to balance prices with outside the jurisdiction, then the “race to the bottom” de facto negates the law in question.

So if we ban XYZ here, but allow untaxed imports from countries with XYZ, then we haven’t really banned it - we just moved it.

RubberElectrons ,
@RubberElectrons@lemmy.world avatar

Everything in the US is already expensive, that “great wage going to a Filipino/a” is at the expense of a person in their own hometown not having a job.

Too bad? Put the shoe on your other foot. If we in the US ban imported rice to protect our farmers, would you and friends feel comfortable in that time things take to adjust? The loss of income?

How far does $6/day go in the Philippines? I can tell you how far it goes in NYC.

brbposting ,

I don’t know what to think because I want everyone to win, but it’s hard to deny I’m biased towards my countrymen here stateside.

Re-reading my comment, did it sound like I meant:

it’s too bad this job is being outsourced

or

psh, too bad, this is the reality of a global world!

I did mean the first one.

I should want everyone to win but I’m biased towards Americans in situations like this - and I don’t know if I can justify it, if I can universalize the maxim.

RubberElectrons ,
@RubberElectrons@lemmy.world avatar

I understood you meant the first one. I’m also biased towards the people of my former home city.

There are several sources that collude to raise prices for the average New Yorker, rent and food amongst them. I’m not at all blaming the lady taking the job remotely, there is pain in financing & operating the business, for the employees in getting to and from, and getting paid close to what their work is actually worth.

The bitch is that none of this system is voluntary. Work or starve, how inhumane.

rekorse ,

Things in america should be more expensive. We do not pay for the full cost of what all of our goods and services cost, mainly due to exploitative measures like in this post.

You can double down all you want but the real answer is that we just shouldn’t be able to buy nearly as much stuff as we do. We love being consumers anf watching the trash heap grow, while we take advantage of anyone smaller than us in any remote corner of the Earth.

RubberElectrons ,
@RubberElectrons@lemmy.world avatar

At no point have I ever said our excessive consumerism is good, only that people shouldn’t be competing internationally for an in-person job.

Having been raised in NYC, I can tell you directly that the job market is a bit fierce, and I think offshoring basic service jobs is terrible for everyone involved, owner included.

rekorse ,

I agree with your post but wanted to add that I think we are starting to realize the effects of cutting out relationships with people in our community.

I suppose thats just another aspect of offshoring that is problematic.

RubberElectrons ,
@RubberElectrons@lemmy.world avatar

It’s a race to the bottom, which I’d call a systematic bug.

Who’s buying anything fun when nobody has a job? So yeah, I agree with what you’re saying too.

IzzyJ ,
@IzzyJ@lemmy.world avatar

What you shluldve wanting is some Phillipino employer to pay the lady what shes worth, and the American business to hire an American

DoucheBagMcSwag ,

Boo for OP who didn’t name and shame

fmstrat ,

Was about to say the same. Up vote instead.

lurch ,

Zoom ID and pass are in the image tho 😄

Nelots ,

nypost.com/…/nyc-restaurants-use-zoom-cashiers-fr…

adding that she splits tips with her manager and kitchen staff at the restaurant.

They don’t even let her keep her entire tips. The whole situation is fucked. Somebody mentioned in the article also brought up a great point…

“Today, this is a Filipino woman behind a screen, controlling a POS system — but it’s not crazy to believe that probably in the next six to twelve months, this could be an AI avatar doing all the same things,” he said.

What a shitty future we have.

intensely_human ,

Well yeah. When you eat at a restaurant, and tip, generally you’re not intending to tip the solely the cashier.

Before chanting along with the hate chant just think for a second. When’s the last time you tipped a cashier, with the intention of the tip going to the cashier and none of the rest of the staff?

sunzu ,

That's right folks, this is why you don't tip cashiers or anyone else for that matter unless they get sub min wage rate.

explodicle ,

I never intend for them to go to the manager.

Gigasser ,

Um…yes I do. If I enjoy the service of one particular waiter, I expect that the tip (at least the majority of it, let’s say around 75-90% if not 100% of it) goes to the waiter who served me. If I’m tipping a cashier, I just give him a few bucks and tell him to pocket it discreetly.

5too ,

From the article, Sansan Chicken, Sansan Ramen, and Yaso Kitchen, all in NY. (Since nobody has said it yet)

MystikIncarnate ,

I would not shop here. If I saw this, I would turn around and walk out. Go somewhere that they value work.

Wogi ,

BuT nO oNe WaNtS tO wOrK aNyMoRe

octopus_ink ,

BuT nO oNe WaNtS tO wOrK aNyMoRe

:D

Obligatory -

https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/e0a182f8-9ddc-4ed1-8d20-c102fbd2bda7.jpeg

mohammed_alibi ,

How about this one from about 2000 years ago:


<span style="color:#323232;">37 Then saith he unto his disciples, The harvest truly is plenteous, but the labourers are few;
</span>

Matthew 9:37

www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+9%3A…

octopus_ink ,

That was awesome. Deep cut!

errer ,

Everyone in the US takes advantage of cheap overseas labor. It’s just usually not directly in your face.

treadful ,
@treadful@lemmy.zip avatar

It’s usually impossible not to, because we have no visibility into the supply chain or there’s no other options. In this case, it’s impossible to ignore.

obinice ,
@obinice@lemmy.world avatar

Okay but like… how are they gonna count out my change?

Qwaffle_waffle ,

For giving you change: www.yourposstuff.com/…/tflexsc.htm

For counting your change, probably something like this innovorder.com/…/automated-cash-recycling-system

corsicanguppy ,

Those are awesome for the 7.2 minutes in a row they work without some intervention.

Source: McDonald’s drive-[through].

brbposting ,

Ohh

https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/2946fc49-d936-49f1-847e-7f11ac4f203a.jpeg

So that’s how it works - video was actually quite interesting.

The_Worst ,

In the Netherlands you have self checkout with cash. No cashier involved.

ByteOnBikes ,

In Japan, you order from a vending machine, pay the machine, get a slip of paper, and hand it to the cook.

I think that system is fantastic.

The_Jit ,

We have this in the US to. Even McDonalds does them!

LordCrom ,

Ya I hate that. I have walked out of a McDonalds and went to the drive thru just so a person would take my order.

MeanEYE ,
@MeanEYE@lemmy.world avatar

For different reasons though. In japan it’s for small restaurants which don’t employ many people or don’t have a lot of space or both. For McDonald’s it’s for pinching a dollar more for their empire.

aidan ,

In japan it’s for small restaurants which don’t employ many people or don’t have a lot of space or both.

So about saving money, which is the same reason

For McDonald’s it’s for pinching a dollar more for their empire.

McDonald’s is franchised

MeanEYE ,
@MeanEYE@lemmy.world avatar

I also love the amount vending machines Japan has. I’d love to have machine for tea or late night ramen around every corner.

aidan ,

Not what you want to hear, but it sounds like you just want a kettle

MeanEYE ,
@MeanEYE@lemmy.world avatar

Haha. If those two were the only things offered in vending machines in japan, then yes. But they don’t.

Annoyed_Crabby ,

Cashless payment, or those machine that will count the money, sorta like vending machine.

BaroqueInMind ,

I would just unplug the camera and computer. Every day. Even if I wasn’t buying anything.

Fuck this business.

Etterra ,

Be sure to wear gloves.

BaroqueInMind ,

Why?

NatakuNox ,
@NatakuNox@lemmy.world avatar

Because a person 8000 miles away can’t wipe down anything so the place has to be dirty

hamid , (edited )

deleted_by_author

    •
    NatakuNox ,
    @NatakuNox@lemmy.world avatar

    Ya because they totally won’t cut corners to save a buck

    Passerby6497 ,

    Because you don’t want to leave fingerprints behind when you unplug something on camera.

    TheFriar ,

    Secret…agent man!

    Agent641 ,

    Hi

    TheFriar ,

    Oh sorry, I didn’t mean you, not-so-secret agent man

    intensely_human ,

    They use fingerprints for murder cases, not camera unplugging cases.

    Also, this lady now has a job and you’re talking about ruining her job.

    sunzu ,

    Man wtf is this shit jfc..

    frog_brawler ,

    I want to upvote the first half of this and downvote the second half.

    Bonskreeskreeskree ,

    It’s not illegal to unplug something

    Passerby6497 ,

    Actually, it could be. That could be considered vandalism (you’re intentionally making unauthorized modifications to equipment to prevent it from working as expected) which is illegal.

    But this is New York, so who knows if they would even enforce that.

    Bonskreeskreeskree ,

    They can just plug it back in. It’ll be ok.

    Passerby6497 ,

    Oh, I guess if you can just plug it back in, that just invalidates the downtime that was caused or data being lost.

    Being able to undo vandalism doesn’t make it suddenly not vandalism.

    frog_brawler ,

    It’s not vandalism. Vandalism is destruction of property (physically destroying it). Unplugging something that was designed to be unplugged is absolutely not vandalism.

    frog_brawler ,

    No, at worst, it would be criminal mischief. Criminal mischief with $0 in property damage…

    Empricorn ,

    So people can just unplug cables at data centers because it’s “$0 property damage criminal mischief”?

    Come on, their lawyers would (successfully) argue that they experienced loss of revenue for any amount of time their remote cashier system was not connected and operational…

    frog_brawler ,

    No, “people” cannot even enter a data center without walking through multiple security man traps and providing identification that gets kept at the desk while inside. A data center is not a sandwich shop.

    frog_brawler , (edited )

    You’re significantly overestimating the police response to a non-vandalism.

    Edit: In nyc, they don’t even finger print for an actual vandalism…

    8000gnat ,

    this is simply cool and good

    conditional_soup ,

    I’m almost certain this has been tried before multiple times and always ended badly. I see no reason to think it would be different now.

    fine_sandy_bottom ,

    No one wants to see the people who are being exploited.

    intensely_human ,

    “Please don’t destroy my job to satisfy your desire to virtue signal”

    — the person who now has a job as a cashier

    IzzyJ ,
    @IzzyJ@lemmy.world avatar

    Sucks to be them. Stop enabling our owner class to hollow out our economy even more

    classic ,

    This is a particularly suited post for this magazine and the image just completes it

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