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MystikIncarnate ,

I would not shop here. If I saw this, I would turn around and walk out. Go somewhere that they value work.

Wogi ,

BuT nO oNe WaNtS tO wOrK aNyMoRe

octopus_ink ,

BuT nO oNe WaNtS tO wOrK aNyMoRe

:D

Obligatory -

https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/e0a182f8-9ddc-4ed1-8d20-c102fbd2bda7.jpeg

mohammed_alibi ,

How about this one from about 2000 years ago:


<span style="color:#323232;">37 Then saith he unto his disciples, The harvest truly is plenteous, but the labourers are few;
</span>

Matthew 9:37

www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+9%3A…

octopus_ink ,

That was awesome. Deep cut!

errer ,

Everyone in the US takes advantage of cheap overseas labor. It’s just usually not directly in your face.

treadful ,
@treadful@lemmy.zip avatar

It’s usually impossible not to, because we have no visibility into the supply chain or there’s no other options. In this case, it’s impossible to ignore.

DoucheBagMcSwag ,

Boo for OP who didn’t name and shame

fmstrat ,

Was about to say the same. Up vote instead.

lurch ,

Zoom ID and pass are in the image tho 😄

Nelots ,

nypost.com/…/nyc-restaurants-use-zoom-cashiers-fr…

adding that she splits tips with her manager and kitchen staff at the restaurant.

They don’t even let her keep her entire tips. The whole situation is fucked. Somebody mentioned in the article also brought up a great point…

“Today, this is a Filipino woman behind a screen, controlling a POS system — but it’s not crazy to believe that probably in the next six to twelve months, this could be an AI avatar doing all the same things,” he said.

What a shitty future we have.

intensely_human ,

Well yeah. When you eat at a restaurant, and tip, generally you’re not intending to tip the solely the cashier.

Before chanting along with the hate chant just think for a second. When’s the last time you tipped a cashier, with the intention of the tip going to the cashier and none of the rest of the staff?

sunzu ,

That's right folks, this is why you don't tip cashiers or anyone else for that matter unless they get sub min wage rate.

explodicle ,

I never intend for them to go to the manager.

Gigasser ,

Um…yes I do. If I enjoy the service of one particular waiter, I expect that the tip (at least the majority of it, let’s say around 75-90% if not 100% of it) goes to the waiter who served me. If I’m tipping a cashier, I just give him a few bucks and tell him to pocket it discreetly.

5too ,

From the article, Sansan Chicken, Sansan Ramen, and Yaso Kitchen, all in NY. (Since nobody has said it yet)

brbposting ,

If my initial reaction is “that’s too bad”, does it make me greedy?

Like, I don’t think US workers are more deserving as human beings than anyone else… but a part of me knows hardcore globalization would hurt people geographically close to me… I’m like some national relativist or something?

I feel like I should want everyone to win regardless of where they were born. And $3/hr is huge vs. the $6/day min wage in parts of PH. Know friends’ friends are farming rice for six bucks a day.

Fedizen , (edited )

the problem is it circumvents minimum wage laws. They’re employing a person so they should be paying them the appropriate wages to do business in new york or the US. They’re also benefitting from payroll/income taxes but not paying into the programs.

brbposting ,

Good point!

Are call centers the same way? And any company relying on Business Process Outsourcing (BPO) firms?

Would be a lotta layoffs overseas if we restricted all foreign labor making less than local minimum wage. Is that a fair trade off? (Not being facetious, genuine question again)

Oh one thing that’s kinda messed up is when tech companies go through consultancies to hire workers in India, the consulting companies take HALF!! Wild!

explodicle ,

Yes it is a fair tradeoff. Any time we make a law we’re raising the cost of goods and services here. If there’s no regulation or import taxes to balance prices with outside the jurisdiction, then the “race to the bottom” de facto negates the law in question.

So if we ban XYZ here, but allow untaxed imports from countries with XYZ, then we haven’t really banned it - we just moved it.

RubberElectrons ,
@RubberElectrons@lemmy.world avatar

Everything in the US is already expensive, that “great wage going to a Filipino/a” is at the expense of a person in their own hometown not having a job.

Too bad? Put the shoe on your other foot. If we in the US ban imported rice to protect our farmers, would you and friends feel comfortable in that time things take to adjust? The loss of income?

How far does $6/day go in the Philippines? I can tell you how far it goes in NYC.

brbposting ,

I don’t know what to think because I want everyone to win, but it’s hard to deny I’m biased towards my countrymen here stateside.

Re-reading my comment, did it sound like I meant:

it’s too bad this job is being outsourced

or

psh, too bad, this is the reality of a global world!

I did mean the first one.

I should want everyone to win but I’m biased towards Americans in situations like this - and I don’t know if I can justify it, if I can universalize the maxim.

RubberElectrons ,
@RubberElectrons@lemmy.world avatar

I understood you meant the first one. I’m also biased towards the people of my former home city.

There are several sources that collude to raise prices for the average New Yorker, rent and food amongst them. I’m not at all blaming the lady taking the job remotely, there is pain in financing & operating the business, for the employees in getting to and from, and getting paid close to what their work is actually worth.

The bitch is that none of this system is voluntary. Work or starve, how inhumane.

rekorse ,

Things in america should be more expensive. We do not pay for the full cost of what all of our goods and services cost, mainly due to exploitative measures like in this post.

You can double down all you want but the real answer is that we just shouldn’t be able to buy nearly as much stuff as we do. We love being consumers anf watching the trash heap grow, while we take advantage of anyone smaller than us in any remote corner of the Earth.

RubberElectrons ,
@RubberElectrons@lemmy.world avatar

At no point have I ever said our excessive consumerism is good, only that people shouldn’t be competing internationally for an in-person job.

Having been raised in NYC, I can tell you directly that the job market is a bit fierce, and I think offshoring basic service jobs is terrible for everyone involved, owner included.

rekorse ,

I agree with your post but wanted to add that I think we are starting to realize the effects of cutting out relationships with people in our community.

I suppose thats just another aspect of offshoring that is problematic.

RubberElectrons ,
@RubberElectrons@lemmy.world avatar

It’s a race to the bottom, which I’d call a systematic bug.

Who’s buying anything fun when nobody has a job? So yeah, I agree with what you’re saying too.

IzzyJ ,
@IzzyJ@lemmy.world avatar

What you shluldve wanting is some Phillipino employer to pay the lady what shes worth, and the American business to hire an American

Fedizen ,

this should be straight up illegal.

Wogi ,

It’s not only legal it’s effectively encouraged. Capitalism is a race to the bottom, regardless of consequences.

generichate1546 ,

When the supreme Court has their finger in the scale it makes everything feel fuckin hopeless

prole ,

They don’t help, sure, but this shit happens anyway in capitalism. It’s an inevitability.

intensely_human ,

Yeah it sucks how money flows to the people who can use it most under capitalism, without anyone having to force it to happen.

prole ,

Is this how you think capitalism works? Yikes.

IzzyJ ,
@IzzyJ@lemmy.world avatar

Capitalism is not a meritocracy the second someone fies and passes on their money

intensely_human ,

The person in the Philippines gets a good job out of this

b000rg , (edited )

They’re being paid minimum wage. It’s not a great job.

Edit: And apparently they split their tips with the people working in the restaurant too, so I really feel like this is just exploitation.

aidan ,

The minimum wage in the Phillipines is around $10 a day.

brbposting ,

If this is right:

https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/b2370b7b-4ac2-48a3-ae27-592c8c170973.png

Looks like the absolute max is less than $10, and the absolute minimum is less than six dollars.

  • $5.24 (306 PHP)
    to
  • $9.76 (570 PHP)

How come agricultural laborers get shafted? An immediate guess is the government trying to keep food costs down.

DragonTypeWyvern ,

This should result in community violence.

And009 ,

Resulted in community silence instead

intensely_human ,

We must be mistaken

Snowpix ,
@Snowpix@lemmy.ca avatar

Why does it seem that the ones who have everything have nothing inside, nothing inside?

SeattleRain ,

I think it is illegal. I thought you had to file a W2 for anyone working in the states.

RememberTheApollo_ ,

They are not physically in the US, and probably work listed as some sort of overseas contractor. Whatever wages they earn are from their employer who contracts for the restaurant.

That’s probably how it works.

BruceTwarzen ,

People should just not go there. But it’s america and they probably have 1dollar chicken nuggets or something.

Duamerthrax ,

I would probably just turn around if I saw and understood what I was looking at. Definitely wouldn’t go back a second time.

SeattleRain ,

"It’s stealing time!"

  • every semi competent criminal
Microplasticbrain ,

Why not just have a kiosk at this point

BallsandBayonets ,

The monthly subscription to the kiosk software still costs more I bet.

uis ,

Right, Corpomerica will corpomerica

intensely_human ,

They do have a kiosk. Just one that’s supervised by someone in the Philippines

Twoafros ,

Are there movements in the US or globally to force all business into worker coops? Unions are good but I think this is their ultimate limitation, that employers can just offshore their jobs

31337 , (edited )

Argentina has somewhat of a history of workers seizing their factories. I think it would be extremely hard in the U.S. due to the well-funded police. Generally, I guess the movement would be “anarcho-syndicalism.”

Edit: misremembered worker factory takeovers in the past as occurring in Venezuela instead of Argentina.

Twoafros ,

Thanks. I didn’t know about Venezuela’s history at all. But I meant not more on a policy level to mandate that all companies must be owned equally by employees instead of shareholders

Chewget ,

They’ll send in the national guard

rodkaroma117 ,

Got some sources on that? I was born and raised there and all I can find is the government seizing factories, not the workers

Edit: some sources of my own

nbcnews.com/…/general-motors-says-venezuelan-offi…

…com.ar/…/las-expropiaciones-venezuela-ruta-direc…

31337 ,

Oh shit. Mixed it up with Argentina.

intensely_human ,

Forcing isn’t good.

iknowitwheniseeit ,

Forcing is absolutely good. We force companies to do all kinds of things, in terms of corporate governance (publicly traded companies must have their finances audited, for example), ownership (banks used to be prevented from buying stock so that they would not avoid calling in bad debt), and how they do business (collusion between big tech to keep salaries down for example).

sunzu , (edited )

Yeah because private Enterprise will be guided by the invisible hand to do the right thing

Aceticon ,

By that hyper-simplistic “logic” people shouldn’t be forced into prison if they murder someone.

Clearly some kinds of forcing in some situations are “good”, and if some are good but other not, that means the real discussion is all about “when is forcing right and when is it not?” something that childlike “logic” of yours doesn’t even begin to address.

aidan ,

Forcing to defend the lives of others, is very different from forcibly taking what belongs to others

butwhyishischinabook ,

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/47ac49e0-0293-43ec-ae95-234905142148.jpeg

hglman ,

The meme is right, the claim of belonging is complete bullshit. Your toothbrush and your home belong to you, a business involving multiple people belongs to everyone involved. The idea that it doesn’t is narcissism and evil.

aidan ,

Your toothbrush and your home belong to you, a business involving multiple people belongs to everyone involved.

You’re free to believe what you want, I’m personally a Lockean property rights enjoyer.

IzzyJ ,
@IzzyJ@lemmy.world avatar

Cringe and evil

aidan ,

I think stealing the labor of others is evil

IzzyJ ,
@IzzyJ@lemmy.world avatar

Said the guy advocating property rights

aidan ,

Yes

hglman ,

Funny bc thats in agreement with what I just said. Unless you think your home and toothbrush are not yours bc you didn’t make them.

aidan ,

It disagrees with the second statement not the first

hglman ,

Then clearly you don’t understand Lock then.

aidan ,

I don’t know, I do at least know his name

jlou ,

It rightfully belongs to the workers. The firm is basically a vehicle for appropriating the positive and negative product of production. The just basis of property is getting the positive and negative fruits of your labor (i.e. the labor theory of property). In a capitalist employer-employee relationship, the employer gets solely holds the whole product while workers are denied their claim to it despite it being a result of their labor.

@aboringdystopia

jlou ,

Yes:

https://www.abolishhumanrentals.org

@aboringdystopia

Twoafros ,

Thanks! First time hearing of this.

intensely_human ,

Yeah it’s definitely dystopian that someone in the Philippines gets to earn a living 🙄

feedum_sneedson ,

Capitalism’s spatial fix.

rozodru ,

hope your job never gets offshored

you: “Yeah I lost my job, but hey, now someone in India gets to earn a living…can you help me prop up my cardboard box to keep the rain out? thanks.”

aidan ,

I agree it sucks that anyone would lose their job, but why is the default of people in the “west” having well paid, air conditioned jobs, and other people getting those jobs stealing from them.

explodicle ,

The default is locals having the job.

aidan ,

Why should it remain that way?

explodicle ,

Because the surplus from this change is going to the owner and not the workers.

aidan ,

It’s in NYC, I would not assume the owner is financially stable. Small businesses struggle because of two main costs, rent and labor

explodicle ,

Since we’re discussing the default, I’d assume average NYC everything. If a restaurant can’t afford to pay minimum wage for the area, then I wouldn’t assume their business is a good use of space.

aidan ,

XD

sunzu ,

How is this my problem?

Nobody ask how my budget at home work when I negotiate my salary.

Financial viability of a shiti business is the "owners" problem.

They never include me when they accounting them profits tho ;)

I wonder why dear?

aidan ,

Well, it’s your problem if they don’t employ you and you need a job I suppose. Or if you just like having non-mega corps in your neighborhood

sunzu ,

r if you just like having non-mega corps in your neighborhood

If you don't allow me to underpay workers, mega corps will ruin your neighborhoods, rheee

aidan ,

Depending on what you mean by underpay, possibly yeah it’ll contribute. Don’t look too much into the new CA restaurant worker minimum wage law.

Lyrl ,

Jobs are not a finite resource. If there is a pool of people who want to work, someone will find stuff to pay them to do.

I seriously would love for my entire current set of job responsibilities to be automated. There are a couple of value-adding full-time jobs’ worth of work I could be doing for my employer that are just being left on the table right now.

rozodru ,

Well this is just absolutely untrue. If there’s a pool of people who want to work then someone will just give them a job? what kind of magical unicorn world are you living in? So in your world unemployment rates just…don’t exist or are a fabrication? those people are just lazy?

If you got fired from your job and you couldn’t find another one, in your head, whose fault is that? yours? the mythical job provider who hasn’t blessed you with another?

If I ran a business and was provided the option of hiring you or someone in another country for peanuts, I’d tell you to kick grass.

But you want to work I hear you say! someone HAS to pay me to do something! nope, I’m not going to pay you, I’m going to pay this kid in India or his brother that just got off the plane half of what I would have to pay you.

Welcome to the real world.

match ,
@match@pawb.social avatar

it is not the way the world has to work just because it’s the way the world currently works

Lyrl ,

There will always be some level of unemployment (a percentage of people who want job a won’t have found one), but if automation made the unemployment rate permanently go up, all the people who used to hand knit socks who lost jobs to powered looms, all the people who used to drive plows with oxen who lost jobs to combines, all the blacksmiths who lost jobs to powered forges, and equivalent percentage of the population for subsequent generations forever would remain unemployed. And yet, somehow, subsequent generations have managed to mostly find jobs.

feedum_sneedson ,

I HATE THE ANTICHRIST

SloppyPuppy ,

Theyre stealing our jobs without even being here! /s

III ,

Maybe someone will catch on to who the actual enemy is here…

IzzyJ ,
@IzzyJ@lemmy.world avatar

Lol. Not the hicks. Theyll see foreigner and get pissy

Bonskreeskreeskree , (edited )

This shit has got to be outlawed. Companies are doing this across the board. Literally skirting labor laws, outsourcing jobs that should be going to us citizens, all to just continue pouring more money into the tops pockets. When will we have all had enough?

Rivalarrival ,

It’s a simple enough solution in this case. They are performing the work of employees, so for all intents and purposes, they are employees. They are directly interacting with US customers at a physical location within the US. Their place of work is that physical location, even if they are not physically present. They need authorization to work in the US, and the minimum wage laws applicable to that location applies to these workers.

All that is missing is the lawsuit under existing labor laws, which they will probably lose.

Bonskreeskreeskree ,

So what can the citizens do to get traction on this?

sunzu ,

Good luck finding a judge taking such a position

Judiciary is just a rubber stamp for the corporate needs. Last 40 years of court rulings speak for themselves.

Courts ain't saving slaves

gerbler ,

Sounds like something the Department of Labour could legislate… Or could have.

But the supreme court just ruled that this falls under the courts jurisdiction and there’s a snowflakes chance in hell that a case pushed high and far enough will result in those ghouls will rule in favour of labour interests.

Rivalarrival ,

Yeah, I don’t think SCOTUS would side with an IRS or Labour Department rule requiring businesses pay minimum wage. But you’re forgetting the “racist” angle: the courts would love nothing more than to support a State Department determination that they are “immigrant workers” and require a work visa.

teamevil ,

Not with this fucking compromised supreme court. Nothing was capitalized on purpose.

MonkderDritte ,

Unplug the display & camera, get meals for free?

boatsnhos931 ,

Way better than yelling at them about no onions on my sandwich

MonkderDritte ,

Don’t yell at the cashier, he didn’t do anything wrong.

boatsnhos931 ,

Depends on whether they put the order in correctly or the kitchen staff didn’t follow it, doesn’t it Jim bob?

match ,
@match@pawb.social avatar

… and walk into the back to make your own food?

macrocephalic ,

I’d be tempted to do it just for the chaos factor.

BruceTwarzen ,

Good thing they build a wall so these mean immigrants are not stealing jobs.

sunzu ,

immigrants are not stealing jobs.

I know you are being cheeky.. But you are using their lingo. It is strategic as it skips the the perp ie the rent seeker looking to underpay for labour.

You know how fake teevee always got NYC migrant bussing story?

But we never hear about migrants being bussed into the heartland to work in meat packing or some other hard work.

Who is paying to bus them anyway?

Asking for a friend

UnderpantsWeevil ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enclosure

Oops! All Plantations now!

Guess it wasn’t much of a land for the free. Unless people start pushing back, I gotta question if it’s the home of the brave, either.

sjpwarren ,

Can’t wait to hear how Trump says Philippines

werefreeatlast ,

I have bad eye sight…I read the screen behind her as “Japanese fried children” suddenly I knew I had misread that. Like there’s no way New York would stoop that low and be that cruel to children. I corrected myself before any other thought occurred actually. But it was momentarily disturbing.

bcgm3 ,

Working as a graphic designer in the US since the early 2000’s, every employer I ever worked for eventually used Fiverr to pay someone overseas a fraction of what they paid me to do the same work. This doesn’t seem meaningfully different.

Not saying this is okay, just that it’s not even remotely (no pun intended) a new problem.

sunzu , (edited )

This whole thing is a to send a message to begin with as with AI, actually more so.

Most of the "AI job losses" are this sort of offshoring actually... Joke is on the wage slaves.

Ragnarok314159 ,

This is pure Astronaut meme with “wait, AI is just 3rd world wage slaves?”

SSJMarx ,

They even gave it a cheeky name! “Mechanical Turk”, the thing that famously had a real person inside it pretending to be a machine.

veni_vedi_veni ,

There was an article that exposed Amazons cashier-less stores were just bunch of Indians overseas reviewing footage because their classification algorithms failed half the time

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