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Augustiner ,

Working for Boeings PR department must be absolute madness right now… imagine having to somehow excuse all those fuck ups and every week there is a new one

Blueoaky ,

The company is still worth over 100 billions. They do something right.

Otherwise I agree with you. It’s almost hilarious to see fail after fail (as long as you are not in the plane).

snekerpimp ,

It’s call “military contracts”

Flag ,
@Flag@kbin.social avatar

Amd cruising on past reputation.

Augustiner , (edited )

What they do right is having a duopoly with Airbus, and great military contracts. So investors know that even if things are shit rn, they will probably get better again.

Furthermore, while I agree that Boeing probably will not go bankrupt over this, the valuation sometimes is not a great indicator of what’s going on internally. Enron was worth over 60 billion. Half a year later they were at zero. Now I’m not saying Boeing is nearly that bad, but they are in some trouble for sure.

Imgonnatrythis ,

Well they were not doing so hot just 4 years ago when they said they were short a cool 60billion…

atrielienz ,

Military contracts.

Potatos_are_not_friends ,

Nestle is worth billions. Sure, a bunch of kids die and we use slavery, but they must be doing something right.

Shadywack ,
@Shadywack@lemmy.world avatar

Google’s worth billions, and they can go probably about 6 years doing nothing right before that changes. It took Yahoo! a while, you’ll catch on.

r00ty Admin ,
r00ty avatar

The thing is, every Boeing plane that has any problem is going to make it to the news right now. So it's very hard to see what is relevant and what is just "one of those things". So, this will make them look worse than they really are.

Having said that, they have problems. My opinion is that cost-cutting has created all their recent actual problems (MCAS, missing bolts, loose bolts etc) and I'd argue that unless the actual location(s) responsible for these problems is identified, the safest thing to do would be to recall ALL aircraft recently (last 3 years AT LEAST) serviced, repaired or had their configuration changed at a Boeing owned or subcontracted location should be reviewed for substandard work.

My reasoning here is that if we have loose/missing bolts on the 737 Max 8/9 and -900ER. It won't stop there, it is going to almost certainly be an institutionalised problem of quality control slippage that could affect any aircraft maintenance, repair, or adjustment operation.

But, I'm not an aviation expert, so my opinion is worth very little.

Augustiner ,

I agree with your comment, even though I have no idea on the technical aspects. What I can weigh in on is crisis management, especially communication.

Boeing needs to take control of the situation and actively start communicating and showing that they are working on fixing this thing. In Situational Crisis Communication Theory you would call it a rebuild approach. They tried denial, they tried downplaying, it’s not working. A rebuild strategy is usually the last resort, as things like admitting your mistakes and fixing them are rarely appreciated by investors. Furthermore it’s usually a huuuuge cost to do a recall on that scale. But Boeing need to show the public that they are actively working on improving the situation, to earn back their trust. So at least a partial recall should be considered.

You’re exactly right in your first paragraph about the news. The media and the public are very sensitive to Boeing quality issues rn. These articles won’t stop unless one of three things happen. Either Boeing gets their shit together and gets some effective crisis management and communication done, the company goes bust, or something else turns up in the news that replaces this. The third option will be the most likely, but it will also haunt them forever. It’s like that exploding galaxy note 7 situation. There were articles about that for every new generation of Galaxy Note, despite Samsung doing pretty well in investigating the issues. And while the following Note phones sold alright, the whole thing was a significant loss of trust and money for Samsung and enabled competitors like Huawai to catch up.

WHYAREWEALLCAPS ,

Except this one isn't even a Boeing issue - this is a plane Delta has operated since 1992. This is entirely Delta's maintenance's fault. Boeing will still get blamed for it, of course.

Augustiner , (edited )

I know, but no one cares who’s responsible at the moment. What people care about is that they read a new article about Boeings planes endangering passengers every 3 days. So while Delta is most likely at fault, Boeing is gonna take the hit to the company image. That’s why I was specifically speaking about the Boeing PR team. Those guys and the crisis managers won’t be able to catch a break for a loooong time.

TimeSquirrel ,
@TimeSquirrel@kbin.social avatar

"Next up: are Grandma's visits killing her? Investigation finds Boeing builds airframes out of aluminum, which may or may not be linked to alzheimers. More at 11."

LifeInMultipleChoice ,

45,000 commercial flights a day in the U.S. 35 deaths in the last 10 years. Thats about 164 million flights.

~115 people dying by car daily, and those numbers have been rising every year…

If planes get their kill ratio up high enough people will stop caring and start saying it is expected/needed.

Clearly more plane crashes are the answer.

porcariasagrada , (edited )

how many car trips per day in the us? must be billions. deaths per mile* per traveler should be the metric, not number of trips.

ps: safest method of transportation is the elevator.

edit:*mile traveled

TonyTonyChopper ,
@TonyTonyChopper@mander.xyz avatar

Elevators don’t travel any distance so if anyone is hurt by one they immediately lose by your metrics

porcariasagrada ,

are you 100% sure that elevators don’t travel any distance? or are we going to argue semantics over what distance is or isn’t.

TonyTonyChopper ,
@TonyTonyChopper@mander.xyz avatar

You would need to keep track of how high airplanes fly if you did argue semantics

porcariasagrada ,

in three dimensions you have three axis. all of those measure distance traveled from 0.

GreatAlbatross ,
@GreatAlbatross@feddit.uk avatar

Does this one count?

porcariasagrada ,

sure

HappycamperNZ ,

Just throwing this out - do we include the altitude the plane climbs in its distance traveled?

porcariasagrada ,

sure. why the hell not? lets go nuts on these data points.

r00ty Admin ,
r00ty avatar

I don't think we have enough information to say whether it's a Boeing thing or not. The reason I say that is, that my understanding is some maintenance and repair operations will be performed by Boeing, or Boeing appointed subcontractors. What we may never find out is whether there was any work done on, or requiring access via the nose wheel area, and whether it was performed by Boeing/Boeing subcontracted technicians.

But, as I said in my other comment. This will be an ongoing problem where every Boeing plane issue will be reported now and unless announced by the operator or Boeing themselves, we'll never know whether it was a Boeing maintenance problem or just neglect by the operator.

Poem_for_your_sprog ,

They didn’t say why it fell off yet. It might be a fatigue issue.

kokesh ,
@kokesh@lemmy.world avatar

I would expect this to be a maintenance fail.

KingThrillgore ,
@KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml avatar

Can’t have a PR department if you laid them off.

autotldr Bot ,

This is the best summary I could come up with:

A nose wheel fell off a Delta Air Lines Boeing 757 passenger jet and rolled away as the plane lined up for takeoff over the weekend from Atlanta’s Hartsfield-Jackson international airport in the US, according to the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA).

According to a preliminary FAA notice, none of the 184 passengers or six crew members aboard were hurt in the incident.

The report said the aircraft was lining up and waiting for takeoff when the “nose wheel came off and rolled down the hill”.

The plane had been scheduled to fly to Bogotá, Colombia, and Delta said the passengers were put on a replacement flight, according to the New York Times, which broke the story late on Tuesday.

The newspaper said Boeing declined to comment and directed questions to the airline.

Nobody was seriously injured but the FAA grounded 171 MAX 9 jets and recommended inspections and remedying work.

The original article contains 198 words, the summary contains 150 words. Saved 24%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!

shortwavesurfer ,

Seriously, they just can’t catch a break. Can they?

TheBat ,
@TheBat@lemmy.world avatar

Planes don’t have breaks, silly. They fly. What are they going to do with breaks?

spongebue ,

Planes have brakes* so they, for example, don’t bump the plane in front of them when moving through the line to take off.

I know this was a joke but it kinda feels flat

TheBat ,
@TheBat@lemmy.world avatar

feels flat

Prolly a prediction of Boeing’s stock today

Corkyskog ,

I think you have some work to do before your ready for your Tight Five at the Comedy Store

cali_ash ,

What are they going to do with breaks?

The are kind of important for stopping the plane after landing.

SkaveRat ,

the front fell off, you say?

ObviouslyNotBanana ,
@ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world avatar

It’s not supposed to do that?

Valthorn ,

Oh it’s very unusual!

Flag ,
@Flag@kbin.social avatar

1 in a million chance?

billwashere ,

Hopefully they towed it out of the environment.

werefreeatlast ,

Freddie said he would have it up and running by tomorrow. He might need to do a quick repair and fly it to Seattle for parts for a final fix, but he’ll be here by tomorrow. He’s gonna be checking for alignment and camber.

MonkderZweite , (edited )

A wave hit it.

ObviouslyNotBanana ,
@ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world avatar

A wave hit the plane?

MonkderZweite ,

Waves (wind) in open air? Chance in a million!

MonkderZweite ,

deleted_by_author

    •
    ObviouslyNotBanana ,
    @ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world avatar

    But the front fell off?

    MonkderZweite ,

    I’m not saying it wasn’t safe, it’s just perhaps not quite as safe as some of the other ones.

    spongebue ,

    To shreds, you say?

    cypherpunks ,
    @cypherpunks@lemmy.ml avatar

    some of them are built so that the front doesn’t fall off at all.

    cali_ash ,

    Yeah, that’s not very typical, I’d like to make that point.

    LEDZeppelin ,

    Then what is typical, I wonder?

    LufyCZ ,

    I think the nose not falling off is typical

    ABCDE ,

    Tip-ical.

    MonkderZweite ,

    Well, what sort of standards are those planes built to?

    athos77 ,

    Clickbait. The FAA lists the plane number as N672DL and a quick flight registry check says that plane was made in 1992. This is a maintenance issue with Delta.

    7heo ,

    Isn’t Boeing QA supposed to inspect the plane and sign it off after maintenance?

    athos77 ,

    Why would they?

    Flag ,
    @Flag@kbin.social avatar

    Required by law? I dunno, im guessing here.

    Aatube ,
    @Aatube@kbin.social avatar

    How many Boeing planes are out there vs number of employees?

    7heo ,

    Because of regulations, because of contracts, because of a myriad reasons I won’t waste my time listing here.

    The point is that they have been in business for over a century, that the aerospace industry is heavily regulated, and so I somewhat expect them to have processes in place and responsibilities to make sure the planes are delivered and remain according to their design specification.

    And you don’t strike me as someone who knows more than me (a total newbie) on the matter, so maybe we stop wasting each other’s time on a pointless argument about shit that is absolutely beyond us both. Yeah?

    Aatube ,
    @Aatube@kbin.social avatar

    No, they make the guides but don’t monitor them, which would be too costly (so much employees needed) and bureaucratic

    7heo ,

    I thought that there were specific “critical” operations that would require them (Delta, Boeing, or both) to record an entry in Boeing’s Collaborative Manufacturing Execution Systems (CMES) database. But I’m discovering this field, so I don’t know if they make a difference in this context between before and after delivery, and if the normal plane maintenance is covered by the same processes or not, and that’s why I’m asking, and not stating.

    However, if one doesn’t know more than me, stating isn’t more correct.

    Aatube ,
    @Aatube@kbin.social avatar

    Well, they probably register repairs in databases, but they definitely don’t send people to check every single thing. Airlines also might contract Boeing to do some bigger repairs.

    7heo ,

    I don’t see how a repair that causes the nose of a plane to “fall off” would not be considered a “bigger repair”…

    I’m not saying that Boeing would be involved in the replacement of a tire from the landing gear. But something major enough to make the actual nose of the plane to literally fall off? That sounds important enough to me.

    Aatube ,
    @Aatube@kbin.social avatar

    The wheel near the nose fell off, not the nose itself smh

    7heo ,

    OK I’m officially too tired to actually contribute to Lemmy. I’ll be on my way… 😭

    Deebster ,
    @Deebster@programming.dev avatar

    The title is “Nose wheel falls off Boeing 757 airliner waiting for takeoff” and that’s exactly what happened. That’s not clickbait, since it’s not deceptive, sensationalized, or otherwise misleading. It’s just news.

    athos77 ,

    The only reason it's being reported is because of the other Boeing incident. And if they were trying to be accurate, the headline would've read "Nose wheel falls off Delta airplane waiting for takeoff". It's clickbait.

    octopus_ink ,

    I think you overestimate how much the average traveler who may die when parts fall off cares or is parsing whether it’s Boeing’s mistake or Delta’s. What I’m taking from the headline (we need to get our shit together before a bunch of people die) is different than what you seem to be worried about people taking from the headline.

    Blueoaky ,

    There were passengers on the flight. I would feel highly uncomfortable after this incident to be on another plane of Delta.

    bdonvr ,

    I’m pretty sure nearly every such incident is reported on in the news.

    Now, is it being spread far more due to everything else going on? Sure. But I don’t see why this headline would be weird if nothing else happened with Boeing recently.

    atrielienz ,

    It has been this way for decades. Literally decades. It’s not anything to do with making Boeing look bad or good. It’s everything to do with the model of plane. Airbus planes back in the day had catastrophic hull failures.

    dailymail.co.uk/…/San-Francisco-plane-crash-Two-d…

    aviationweek.com/…/first-airbus-a350-hull-loss-af…

    www.flightradar24.com/blog/jl516-tokyo-accident/

    TrickDacy , (edited )

    You say and yet we both know if the headline was “nose wheel falls off Delta jet waiting to take off” it’d be identically accurate but would mean something else entirely

    KpntAutismus , (edited )

    i work in aerospace, and that’s not delta’s fault. delta is trying to save money according to boeings maintenance guidelines.

    (although i’m not 100% sure about that either)

    Aatube ,
    @Aatube@kbin.social avatar

    Could you elaborate? Why would maintenance guidelines havee clauses for money-making?

    KpntAutismus ,

    i don’t work directly with these guidelines, but i’m told that whoever does maintenance has to follow the maintenance intervals dictated by boeing alone.

    if a plane doesn’t experience much wear, the intervals can be elongated. in addition, the maintenance company can change certain parts of the maintenance if they have the right qualifications.

    but no one really checks every single nut and bolt, so delta could’ve also been sloppy.

    Aatube ,
    @Aatube@kbin.social avatar

    So, you’re saying that the intervals set by Boeing are too long?

    Int_not_found ,

    He does and he is pretty much talking out of his arse. Every thing that is written down In aviation usually has a really solid foundation, on why it is written down in that way.

    I don’t say that a plainly wrong maintenance guide is not to blame here. I’m saying that the much more likely reason, lies in less definable areas. Like bad maintenance crew training or undiscovered faults in the maintance processes, like storing badly labeled bolts with similar threading but different tolerances near each other.

    KpntAutismus ,

    may be, it could also mean that boeing didn’t adequately specify the kind and amount of maintenance that has to be done. it could also mean that delta changed the maintenance procedure so much that this failure could occur.

    there have been many cases where either has led to catastrophic failure

    pajn ,

    Because otherwise airlines buy different planes. All airplane models have extremely detailed maintenance schemas with alternative procedures described where possible. And minimum equipment lists that describes exactly what must work and what is “okay” to be broken to still fly. And it’s on FAA to make sure Delta is following these manuals. So in the end the blame is on Boeing for either bad parts, lasting shorter than required or prescribing insufficient maintenance procedures. Or it’s on FAA for not doing ther duty in making sure the procedures are followed. Of course if Delta hasn’t followed the procedures, blame is on them too, but only ever in combination with either Boeing or FAA.

    TransplantedSconie ,

    I imagine the soft, gentle music piped into the elevators and grounds of Boeing is this.

    Varyk ,

    Does this mean the landing gear wheel closest to the nose fell off?

    Oh okay. Yeah I just listened to the audio recording. I guess yes that’s what that means.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYIC-Vq13xE&t=2

    veeesix ,
    @veeesix@lemmy.ca avatar

    If it’s Boeing, I’m not going.

    Aatube ,
    @Aatube@kbin.social avatar

    Your trip is going to get complicated

    Potatos_are_not_friends ,

    It’s annoying, sure. But not that difficult. I’ve adjusted my flights coming up recently after the “door” issue to swap to airlines using Airbus.

    NikkiDimes , (edited )

    Have you seriously made flight changes because of a single incident? Golly, I hope you walked to the airport instead of driving. Those cars are death traps.

    Angry_Maple ,
    @Angry_Maple@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Live and let live. Their choice doesn’t have any impact on you

    Potatos_are_not_friends ,

    Yes I did.

    iamjackflack ,

    How is this Boeings issue? This is a maintenance problem with the airline. Tires get replaced by maintenance staff. That plane isn’t brand new.

    4am ,

    Well, if proper maintenance was done and the part still failed due to a design or quality issue that was improperly QC’d (missed, skipped, etc) then yeah it could be Boeings fault.

    They’re getting extra scrutiny right now because of all the incidents recently, and all the anecdotal stories of former employees talking about how a bunch of suits are destroying it from the inside to make a quick buck.

    And frankly, they fucking deserve it.

    lolcatnip ,

    And frankly, they fucking deserve it.

    Except the suits aren’t going to be the ones hurt by the company going down in flames.

    pajn ,

    It never is, but it prevents them from continuing to build new planes were profit has priority over security and “accidentally” killing 100s of people

    Potatos_are_not_friends ,

    Boeing: “We hear your concerns. We plan to squash problems by firing all the employees who raised problems.”

    Cornelius_Wangenheim ,

    Sure, but the 757 is a 40 year old design that has been out of production for 20 years.

    nyan ,

    If I recall correctly, the aircraft manufacturer writes the maintenance guidelines.

    This could be a Boeing issue, if it’s due to something that happened at the time the aircraft was built, or due to a foreseeable gap in the maintenance guidelines.

    It could be a Delta issue, if they weren’t following the maintenance guidelines, or a maintenance contractor working for them wasn’t following them and they didn’t catch it.

    It could also have been (very small but nonzero chance) the result of physical trauma to the plane that wasn’t foreseen, back in the 1990s when it was built, as something that might cause an issue of this magnitude. I haven’t yet seen any information on whether this particular aircraft has a history of hard landings or running over debris on the runway. Freak accidents do happen.

    All of those have precedents in aviation history.

    Modern_medicine_isnt ,

    I think the first two repliers have never heard of Ockham’s razor. I mean a micro meteorite could have struck some part of the wheel and knocked it off too, but probably not. Though that would be boeing’s fault to, because they didn’t make it micro meteorite tolerant.

    Wizard_Pope ,
    @Wizard_Pope@lemmy.world avatar

    Is it not Ocam’s razor?

    Mr_Dr_Oink ,

    Occam’s*

    Patch ,

    It can be Occam or Ockham. It’s named after William of Ockham, but it was the fashion at that time for scholars to “Latinise” their names, hence the alternative spelling.

    Wizard_Pope ,
    @Wizard_Pope@lemmy.world avatar

    Truly one of the english language moments of all time.

    Copernican ,

    I remember watching this PBS Frontline segment on plane maintenance 10 years or so ago: www.youtube.com/watch?v=sw0b020OFj4

    I imagine we still have those problems and the recent news of counterfeit parts entering the market is scary.

    Good thing these recent incidents ended up with no serious injuries or death. Perhaps this timing is good in some really weird way as the Supreme Court starts considering powers of regulatory agencies and concerns around government funding to highlight the importance and need for this government role.

    Smoogs ,

    Careful. Boeing already tried the “but it’s not our job” excuse on a few major incidences with an executive now locked behind bars after pushing bribes to cover it up . They’d be best backing off on taking an attitude about where to assign blame. They got a lot of red spots that will never come out.

    Num10ck ,

    Boeing Boom Chuck

    m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_6c6FUVlzA

    Nublets ,

    ¯_(ツ)_/¯ It happens

    barsoap ,

    No worries, it has been towed outside of the environment.

    Parabola ,

    Into a different environment, right?

    Nelots ,

    No, no, no, no, it’s being towed BEYOND the environment. It’s not in the environment.

    RizzRustbolt ,

    Me, standing in the Backrooms, watching as a busted up 757 goes past:

    thenextguy ,

    There’s nothing out there. There’s nothing but leaves and grass and rocks.

    And?

    And a tire.

    eskimofry ,

    No, no, no, no, it’s being towed BEYOND the environment. It’s not in the environment.

    Real life wall clip hack, any% boeing speedrun, impossible?

    Edit: Quoted the wrong comment

    Linkerbaan ,
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    Not during maintenance but while it was waiting for takeoff…

    Tronn4 ,

    The front usually isn’t supposed to fall off

    Shadywack ,
    @Shadywack@lemmy.world avatar

    Some are even designed so the front doesn’t fall off.

    pineapplepizza ,

    It’s not very typical, let me make that point.

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