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why isn't anyone calling for Trump to drop out.

I get it, Biden is old and that’s a problem, but why doesn’t anyone seem to have a problem with the fact that Trump is almost the same age, has 34 felonies, raped at least 2 women, went to Epstein’s Island 11 times, sexualized his own daughter, stole classified documents, aligned himself with Xi and Putin, and can’t remember common names?

Is all of that really better than being 2½ years older than he is right now?

Blackmist ,

Because they don’t have anybody else who can pull in his vote share.

Nemo ,

Because, realistically, he won’t listen.

Biden won’t either, because he’s already proved he can win this race and you don’t retire a winning horse.

conditional_soup ,

I keep seeing this sentiment, and it boggles me. Last season’s winning horse just debuted this season with a huge limp, and the response from some people has been “it’s fine, stop panicking, we’ll win if we just keep betting on it.”

OpenStars ,
@OpenStars@discuss.online avatar

Also, his debates last time weren’t… ideal, but he at least remained awake during them!? Anyway, I’m with you: I understand someone wanting him to win, but how on earth can this be considered a done deal already?

There is a time and a place to stop all questions and get to work. But we aren’t there yet!? And being ready to change one’s mind based on the most current set of facts is literally the hallmark of the Age of Enlightenment, as opposed to e.g. the divine right of rulers to continue for as long as they wish to?

Lemminary ,

at least remained awake during them

It’s fine if you want to criticize Biden, but can we stop with the Sleepy Joe bullshit? It’s nothing but Trump’s political slander.

OpenStars ,
@OpenStars@discuss.online avatar

I mean did you…

…

…

watch the…

…

…

…

thing, you know the thing, that does the stuff?

Please note, I’m not suggesting to not vote Democrat. Also, the sleepy Joe stuff back then was different than it was here during this debate?

Lemminary ,

Yes, not the whole thing, but I watched enough and I’m not even American. Is there a specific part you’d like to point out?

This is also relevant and worth considering: nbcnews.com/…/biden-quips-almost-fell-asleep-onst…

Also, can you type normally, please? I’m not sure what your formatting is trying to convey but it feels either sarcastic or condescending for no good reason.

conditional_soup ,

I think the part where he finally beat medicare is the best example.

youtu.be/i3eYmc1AkMs?si=RJkeAb7gwN_TJOSG

Lemminary ,

That’s a funny bit of fumbling. Reminds me of Bush’s “You can’t get fooled again” and the other contender’s own brand of hilarious fumbling and ramblings.

conditional_soup ,

The difference is that Biden has markedly declined from previous performances. He spent most of that night stumbling, mumbling, and struggling to speak clearly, none of which is his stutter, because a stutter is a very specific speech impediment. He was downright difficult to understand on average, and flat out unintelligible at worst. Even when he got riled up, like with the losers and suckers remark, it sounded like he was having trouble forming word sounds accurately, like he has dysarthria. Even in carefully curated campaign material, like asking for donations, he sounds out of breath and like he’s struggling to speak clearly.

Lemminary ,

I’d like to see him on his upcoming interview all well and rested and then we can compare.

conditional_soup ,

Sure, I’d welcome Biden changing my mind on this.

I think it’s a little alarming that his last international travel was almost two weeks pre-debate and that left him tired enough to perform badly. And by badly, I mean the worst debate performance I’ve seen ever, and I’ve been watching since Bush/Kerry. I also don’t think it bodes well that he hasn’t yet done any big interviews or press conferences to show that it really was just a fluke, which seems like a fairly easy thing to do if he really is actually fine. I would feel much better about his odds of beating Trump if he could start reliably doing public speaking at a similar quality to what he displayed in 2020, which remains to be seen a whole week later.

ryathal ,

This is the real problem. This election is likely to be close either way, a Biden that can’t make appearances in battleground states before the election is not going to do well.

OpenStars ,
@OpenStars@discuss.online avatar

Excellently articulated. Perhaps there’s a simple explanation for all of this - perhaps he’s sick, or if we really want to get conspiratorial, even maliciously poisoned? (I’m trying to convey something that would be outside of his control hence not remotely his fault in any way.)

The thing is, it doesn’t matter. He could have cancelled the debate altogether, but instead he rushed through it. This seems reminiscent of his handling of the withdrawal from Afghanistan, which tbf was 99.9% Trump’s deal, except the handling of it was Biden’s, and revealed some about his personality, to ignore his advisors and substitute his own knowledge for theirs. Which is fine, it’s his prerogative as President to do exactly that, except… he was wrong. The first and basically only job of a leader is to pick good advisors and listen to them, so as to be correct. (Then, if time, train someone else to do likewise.)

This is also reminiscent of Bill Clinton’s handling of his sexual scandals - it happens, but then he went and lied about it to the Supreme Court, which was a whole other thing.

So now, people are - FOR SOME REASON - not quite trusting that what Biden is saying is truthful. Maybe he means well, maybe it really is temporary, but again, none of that is relevant. He needs to reassure people, if not last week’s opportunity then create some new one, that he really does have what it takes to go the distance and be the leader of the United States of America for the next four years.

Fuck, I’m freaking out, bc Trump is going to win.:-( Anyway, thank you for keeping your head about you as the rest of us lose ours - your calm and cogent analyses of things are helpful to read:-).

John_McMurray ,

Three fucking years, Joe being senile was a “conspiracy theory” and then they trot captain Alzheimer’s out

OpenStars ,
@OpenStars@discuss.online avatar

Tbf it really did seem a conspiracy theory back when it started. He used to be fairly energetic, despite being old. But, time passes.

The problem now is that unlike conservatives, liberals don’t take as kindly to being lied to, and to say that he’s both too old to speak and also not too old to be President… it just doesn’t sit right.

John_McMurray ,

Case by case basis. Sanders, Trump, etc, not too old yet, Biden too old despite being numerically the same.

Ensign_Crab ,

Particularly when the same wing of the party was utterly vicious about Sanders’ age when he was 75 back in 2016.

HaleHirsute ,

You’re right, it’s worse than being sleepy, it’s dramatic dementia and cognitive decline.

Lemminary ,

Cognitive decline, probably at his age, but dementia? Says which medical professional? lol

Illuminostro ,

Just like Trump. Except that Trump is very, very stupid.

Grebes ,

Trump has 88 really good reasons not to drop out. Without control of the justice system he’s going to be in jail for the rest of his life and republicans have shackled themselves to him.

AndrewZabar ,

I don’t know if you’ve been not paying attention but even if he’s not elected, he will never see the inside of a jail cell. Trump is untouchable. I’m not sure why, most people speculate he has dirt on some very powerful people - really serious dirt on many really powerful people. That’s only speculation, but if you recall during his first campaign he bragged about how much he was loved and worshiped he said he could walk out of Trump tower onto Fifth Avenue, and shoot someone dead in broad daylight and he would never face any consequences whatsoever. And he was right.

Illuminostro ,

No, Putin has dirt on everyone in the Republican leadership. They hacked the RNC’s servers, too. Lindsey Graham changing his opinion 180 after an afternoon playing golf with Trump should tell you everything you need to know. Graham was literally crying on Fox defending Trump. We all know he’s gay, but Putin has to something absolutely terrible on him. Like having a chocolate bar in his mouth.

NeoNachtwaechter ,

you don’t retire a winning horse

REMEMBER: You need that horse for working right AFTER the race.

Nemo ,

You and I need that. Does the DNC?

NeoNachtwaechter ,

No, i do not need any of these clowns.

What is a dnc?

Nemo ,

The Democratic National Committee - the ruling elite of the Democratic Party. I’m saying the people want effective governance but the party just wants power.

Illuminostro ,

The President is a figurehead, their administration do 99% of the work.

Not_mikey ,

This isn’t 2020 though, at this point in 2020 Biden had a 8 point lead on Trump and even then he only won a narrow victory in the electoral college with Pennsylvania, Arizona and Wisconsin, now he’s down by 2 points overall and down even worse in those swing states. Then he was a relative unknown and people were willing to give him a shot against the known evil of trump . Now people have gotten to see him and they do not like what they see, his approval rating is worse then Trump’s was at the depths of the pandemic.

Illuminostro ,

This isn’t 2020 though,

Tell your superiors at the troll farm they need to change the script. Too many of you using the same exact phrasing is giving you away, tovarish.

Not_mikey ,

Where is this reasoning that “Biden should withdraw” is a Russian talking point coming from besides the paranoid delusions of liberals who blame everything bad on Russia. Putin knows even less then us on whether Biden withdrawing would be good or bad for trump.

It’s not even like this is a fringe idea any more, members of the house are calling for him to step down and even pelosi thinks it’s a legitimate question, are they Russian trolls? We need to have a serious discussion on this and not dismiss the other side as a psyop like alex Jones, otherwise we’re gonna let inertia carry us to a loss like in 2016.

Ensign_Crab ,

Where is this reasoning that “Biden should withdraw” is a Russian talking point coming from besides the paranoid delusions of liberals who blame everything bad on Russia.

They don’t blame everything bad on Russia. They blame everything they don’t like on Russia. It’s why they scream that anyone who says Biden should stop supporting genocide is a Russian.

John_McMurray ,

You do when the Kentucky Derby is next week and it’s got a broken leg

FuglyDuck ,
@FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

Biden won’t either, because he’s already proved he can win this race and you don’t retire a winning horse.

this isn’t 2020. it’s 2024, and a different race. Trump has had 4 years to retcon (or rather double down?) on his reputation. (whatever, he’s had four years to shore up his support.). Further, in 2020… the war in ukraine hadn’t started yet, neither had the Israeli genocide in gaza; the Pandemic was still on-going (and trump was fucking up left right and center on that.)

the point being, the circumstances are different and Biden has a lot of baggage he’s carrying- especially lately with Gaza. As they say in stocks: Past performance is not an indicator of future performance.

It’s going to be a battle, and I’m not sure Biden can win.

That said, Trump belongs in jail. (or the grave. I make exceptions for certain things. like being a rapist pedophile traitor.)

In a sane world, that should be enough for a cardboard cut out of Yogi Bear to win. I used to think that Princess Amidala being 14 and the planetary head of state was hilariously unrealistic, yet here we are hoping to elect an asshole that supports genocide because the other guy is a cartoon villain that would happily genocide his own citizens because they didn’t let him do his pedophile-rape thing. It’s the kind of plot Palpatine would appreciate.

fine_sandy_bottom ,

A winning horse?!

It’s hard to imagine how you could pick a horse less likely to win.

Nemo ,

Except, presumably, all the people he beat out for the nomination.

Look, I loved Dave too, but it was fiction.

corsicanguppy ,

“Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line.”

SuddenDownpour ,

I actually disagree with this sentiment.

There’s clearly a split in the Democratic Party regarding the candidates and leanings of the old guard, vs a very large portion of their voter base that wants structural reforms in the country (universal public healthcare VS increased access to insurance, for instance), and I bet a large portion of the latter feel whipped into having to vote for a lesser evil rather than for a political project they actually have passion for.

Meanwhile, Trump was an outsider of the Republican party who managed to get their voters in love with him, to the point that he managed to hijack the party and leave it ripe open for a transformation from neoconservative to proto-fascist, despite the Republican old guard initially being hostile towards him.

The Republican party has managed to stay competitive, despite their political goals being less popular overall in the US than the Dems’, precisely because they allowed themselves to mutate and stay responsive to the changes in the electorate, the obvious tragedy being that democratic institutions (mostly referring to both political parties) have been far more willing to incorporate far right nutjobs who want to end democracy than they have for left-wing populism that wants to make housing affordable.

TurtleJoe ,
@TurtleJoe@lemmy.world avatar

I don’t know if you don’t realize it, but you just agreed with the pithy quote.

SuddenDownpour ,

My point is that plenty of high-information Democrat voters ultimately fall in line, but the party fails to reach further beyond, while Republicans don’t actually have to “fall in line”, because they like what they’re voting for. Is this not the opposite of the quote?

BigPotato ,

It depends who the Republicans and Democrats are. Republican Voters fell in love - Establishment Republicans fell in line. Republican Officials all talked about how terrible Trump was and would be but still get on their knees when it’s time.

Democratic Voters fall in love, with Bernie and AOC and their guy. Establishment Democrats tell them to get in line… Well, the Voters either do or don’t show up.

So, you’re correct that the original subversion was true but it also depends on who any individual commenter references as “The Dems” and “The Repubs” which you can always shift to suit your needs.

The Republican party pretends they’re wagging the dog but they don’t even have a leash.

Semi_Hemi_Demigod ,
@Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world avatar

Since I’ve been able to vote, I’ve heard this. But the people in charge of the Democratic Party never seem to want to get people to fall in line. They’re content to be the default alternative to a party that demands rigid adherence.

Facebones ,

Democrats spend all their time telling anybody left of the mid right DNC establishment to eat shit except for the lap they take during election years to blame all their woes on those same leftists.

hark ,
@hark@lemmy.world avatar

Nobody fell in love with biden in 2020. He was crowned the nominee because they told everyone that somehow out of all candidates he was the best chance against trump and democrats fell in line, just like they did in 2016 for hillary.

Ensign_Crab ,

Republicans love Trump, and Democrats keep ordering their voters to fall in line.

Ensign_Crab ,

Because we don’t expect him to have any shame or decency.

HawlSera ,

Because he’s sadly going to win.

CableMonster ,

If you are actually wondering; because most of the things you listed are exaggerations, false or not proven. They like trump because he is funny and actually goes against the people they dont like.

The main reason the common man should like him is because most of the people in power hate him and will do anything to stop him from getting elected. Unless you are super aligned with the elites agenda.

gh0stcassette ,
@gh0stcassette@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Damn, trumpoids made it to lemmy? How? Shouldn’t you be spending time with your grandchildren or getting your brain melted by AI slop on facebook or something 💀

PythagreousTitties ,

Holy brain washing, Batman!
You cannot be serious.

CableMonster ,

If an NPC in a game you were playing insulted you, how would you feel?

PythagreousTitties ,

I don’t know. You haven’t insulted me.

CableMonster ,

Just realize however you feel that is how people like me feel when you do middle school insults.

PythagreousTitties ,

Well, then don’t act like you’re in middle school.

Illuminostro ,

This is the most delusional, or the most blatantly evil propaganda, I’ve seen all year.

Fuck Putin.

CableMonster ,

Or its totally true and you guys just are believing the lies. Remember how they were telling us that Biden was perfectly fine and had no real health issues?

UltraGiGaGigantic ,

Trump doesn’t care about you just as much as biden doesn’t care about us.

CableMonster ,

Thats fair, but I dont really care about how much they care.

prunerye ,

First of all, thanks for being on Lemmy. I get nothing out of it when the lefty hivemind argues against a strawman. At least you give us the real thing. Fuck gh0stcassette.

Second of all, Trump only campaigned on a populist platform in 2016. He railed against CEOs, various special interests, and other “swamp creatures” under the premise that he was going to fund his own campaign and didn’t need their money. It was honestly kind of refreshing, even if he was ultimately full of shit and failed to deliver. But I haven’t heard Trump’s 2016 rhetoric in a long time. Not regarding the ruling class. Maybe he still says “drain the swamp” now and then, but many of those who opposed Trump in 2016, e.g. Wall Street, now largely support him, and Trump openly panders to them for their donations. It’s not that people in power hate him; it’s just the people you don’t like in power who hate him.

Vote third party if you hate the elites.

CableMonster ,

Yeah, lemmy kind of sucks if you dont just repeat the lines you are supposed to. I am not a trump voter, the closest thing would be libertarian, but I dont like their candidate either. I dont think trump was particularly good president, but all the rest have been so bad its not a high bar to be better than Biden and Bush. I just mainly get annoyed that 80% of the things that get said are just lies or misleading, and if you point that out people freak the fuck out.

NarrativeBear , (edited )

If he had any decency or moral, Trump should have stepped down himself.

Also, kindly remind everyone with a vagina and everyone who cares about someone with one: This year’s presidential election is about abortion access. Roe vs Wade was repealed by extremist MAGA judges appointed by Trump.

Yawweee877h444 ,

If he had any decency or moral,

Trump

Lolwut

Doxatek ,

One thing I never understand is that all I ever hear about from Republicans is how old Biden is. While being true and not that I necessarily like Biden no one ever talks about how Trump is only three years younger. Biden has to answer for his age all the time but it’s not a thing Trump typically deals with

Grayox ,
@Grayox@lemmy.ml avatar

Because tRump doesnt stutter and plays golf like its his religion, which keeps him in decent shap for an old man, and now that he is on ozempic he is finally slimming down and looking healthy for the first time in 50 years.

SuddenDownpour ,

On top of that, it’s an issue that will easily change the leanings of a lot of low-information voters. Republicans know that the 2025 agenda isn’t popular with moderates, and while most of Biden’s policies have been short-reaching, they’re generally considered a positive (save for Gaza), so they attack at the very obvious and glaring weak point that isn’t actually policy-related.

Doomsider ,

Keeps him in decent shape!? Thanks for the laugh!

TurtleJoe ,
@TurtleJoe@lemmy.world avatar

Because if Biden can’t finish his term, a black woman will be president.

prunerye ,

The age isn’t itself the problem. Cognitive decline is the problem. Biden is in rapid decline; Trump is still a ways off.

scutiger ,

Trump has been rambling incoherently for years. Nothing he says makes any sense but he speaks confidently enough that the uneducated masses can’t even tell it’s nonsense.

Dasus ,
@Dasus@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah.

This is from 2018 and not even his worst ones

youtu.be/1ZAPwfrtAFY?si=7oMM2yRvyynrZm5c&t=192

ZILtoid1991 ,

Different standards. Conservatives did this since the fall of kings, and doing this while want to reinstate them.

If the opponent messes up, they’re incompetent. If they themselves, it’s either someone else’s problem, just part of being human, or try to cover it up with the media until everyone forgets it.

pyre ,

you think rape and pedophilia are going to turn off republicans?

Doomsider ,

Savage!

Facebones ,

And accurate, fighting both existing and new minimum marriage age requirements has been a priority for Republicans in like 10+ different states over the past 5 years or so.

Tramort ,

Because nobody expected him to do anything but lie through his teeth and shit his pants.

Check and check.

Taohumor , (edited )

Mainly cuz no one cares this is all internet shit flinging. No one talking about anything will do anything besides smell their own fart.

Also people are more concerned with making sure they have enough to eat and can pay rent for the month.

It’s your privilege to spend all your free time reading about politics, make sure to check it.

RampantParanoia2365 ,

…is this a joke?

bloodfart ,

The people calling for Biden to drop out are supporters of his party, the democrats, who recognize that he’s unfit and incapable of winning. They want him to be replaced by someone else to increase their party’s chances of victory.

No one is calling for trump to drop out because he’s looking more fit in comparison to Biden and he’s projected to win. No one would call for a candidate to drop out when they’re in the lead if they support that candidates party.

Criminal allegations, true or false, don’t enter into it because America has a two tiered justice system where the wealthy and powerful are less beholden to the law than the rest of us and because presidency requires the violation of myriad international laws, norms and human rights.

The job title might as well be War Criminal in Chief and none of the allegations leveled at trump are disqualifying.

atrielienz ,

I don’t actually think that statement is true. Polls are notoriously wrong all the time, and the members of the Democratic Party requesting he drop out are doing so because they’re afraid to say otherwise. I’ll give you an example. Members of the Republican party notably were very critical of Trump until they realised that to continue in the political sphere they were going to have to get along to get along when it became clear he was the front runner.

The members of the DNC who are asking for Biden to step down are doing so even though they know that no other possible candidate is likely to win. They did the same with Bernie Sanders in 2016. They aren’t worried that he’ll lose the popular vote. They’re worried he’ll lose Electoral College votes because some of them are apparently still on the fence. If they wanted to put forth another candidate they would have already. Who have they put forward to put on the ticket? No one. Because they don’t have anyone else either. For them it’s a no win situation and they’re scared so they’re trying to cover their own asses.

bloodfart ,

I actually agree with your last sentence. it’s a no-win situation for the democrats and there’s a seemingly growing contingent that thinks the best loss they can take is one where a new candidate or set of candidates are introduced to the electorate.

polls are wrong all the time, you’re right. what does it look like if against all odds, biden wins? the man has shown himself to be incapable of cognitive function. should voters fall back on trusting his cabinet and handlers “our competent administrators, their unelected sycophants” style?

hes facing significant opposition from the other branches of government and even at the end of his life when faced with a supreme court ruling that gives him the legal go ahead to enact his administrations policies he won’t do it.

that’s not looking like a great second term. if he lives through it then they’re the do-nothing democrats who can’t accomplish their agenda and abandon their constituents, if he dies then they’ve got kamala who would be very funny but is incredibly disliked.

the democrats are between a rock and a hard place right now because they ran on trump being a dictatorial fascist who will crown himself god-king and now that hes going to win they’re at fault for cynically using the threat of fascism to get votes instead of building the kind of base to oppose fascism that one and a quarter centuries of history would dictate or being the boy who cried wolf if it turns out there’s a peaceful transition of power in 2028.

basically there’s no way forward with their current messaging and platform because when trump wins and institutes american fascism (it’s already here, but i’m typing from the perspective of democratic strategists) they’re naive buffons who pissed away their time and resources trying to get people to vote for an inadequate candidate on a shuffling the deck chairs platform and when trump doesn’t send the brownshirts into the streets and has a largely uneventful second term theyre the people who pissed away their time and resources on a candidate and platform which aren’t up to the challenges we face because of orange man bad.

they’re done for and the best possible outcome is an uneventful trump presidency with a smooth handover complete with “restored faith in our electoral process”. in that case it’s best to go ahead and start getting their benchwarmers out on the field to find out whos up to the task in 2026 and 2028.

codapine ,

It’s like he’s a real life Zaphod Beeblebrox, only far, far worse.

Semi_Hemi_Demigod ,
@Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world avatar

Zaphod had way more rizz

BaldManGoomba ,

Firstly, foreign nations interfering with our country wants chaos. Trump is chaos but they will latch onto anything to sew discord and craziness.

Second the Republicans don’t care they are voting for Trump period or against democrats period there is little to change their mind. Conservatives don’t have to do something to win they have to hold every one and anything back.

Thirdly, the left is critical thinkers who are trying for better so there is always dissent or people criticizing/arguing the best way to do a thing causing lots of bad will. Doesn’t help we don’t have a left party and have a middle party always trying to court to the right.

Lastly, there is tons of could been better should have done better. Democrats and DnC sucks. They have a bunch of old fogeys holding onto power and their donors want people who won’t change things to much. Doesn’t help the corpos where use to having zero lights shined on them under Trump and they can do whatever. Where as even if most of it was toothless Biden actually did a little bit and said a few things that upset the corps

Lost_My_Mind ,

Ok everybody. New plan. Everybody vote for me. Here’s my platform. Fuck EVERYBODY!!! Equally. No racism. No discrimination. You ALL get a middle finger to the face. In fact, fuck the donkey, fuck the elephant, my party emblem is a big middle finger. The fucking party. Don’t you want to join the fucking party? I know you want to join the fucking party. You know how hitler had the hitler salute? Well we have giving people the finger. Thats our partys gesture. In fact, do two middle fingers! Double up, mother fuckers!

And my campaign promise? I will fuck up this country at a slower rate than these two old geezers. Actually, first day in office, my first official act as president will be to give both of them the finger.

My second act will be bacon. Just…just bacon.

DebatableRaccoon , (edited )

You’ve got my vote. I’m not American but you can rule over my country and give our band of useless cretins the finger too.

lord_ryvan ,

Man, I need me a US passport just to vote for you

Willy ,

that’s not how anything works.

lord_ryvan ,

Ah, no voting for them, then

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