There have been multiple accounts created with the sole purpose of posting advertisement posts or replies containing unsolicited advertising.

Accounts which solely post advertisements, or persistently post them may be terminated.

Alabama wants to be the 1st state to execute a prisoner by making him breathe only nitrogen

Alabama is seeking to become the first state to execute a prisoner by making him breathe pure nitrogen.

The Alabama attorney general’s office on Friday asked the state Supreme Court to set an execution date for death row inmate Kenneth Eugene Smith, 58. The court filing indicated Alabama plans to put him to death by nitrogen hypoxia, an execution method that is authorized in three states but has never been used.

Nitrogen hypoxia is caused by forcing the inmate to breathe only nitrogen, depriving them of oxygen and causing them to die. Nitrogen makes up 78% of the air inhaled by humans and is harmless when inhaled with oxygen. While proponents of the new method have theorized it would be painless, opponents have likened it to human experimentation.

ineedaunion ,

Alabama should gas itself honestly.

Rinna , (edited )
@Rinna@lemm.ee avatar

I am by no means pro death penalty, but I prefer this over the lethal injection. It’s a very painful and horrifying way to go and not at all like the drugs they give someone for medical euthanasia, while suffocating on nitrogen is actually relatively painless.

pomodoro_longbreak ,
@pomodoro_longbreak@sh.itjust.works avatar

How about fuck the death penalty instead

Rinna , (edited )
@Rinna@lemm.ee avatar

Oh yeah I agree, I just would rather that if it’s going to be a thing over lethal injections.

Leviathan ,

Small government folks sure are horny about giving their government the power to murder them.

roboticide ,

Sure, but as long as they have the death penalty, it’s probably best they do it as humanely as possible.

Some states are bringing back firing squads, which definitely feels like a huge step back. If they’re going to kill someone, using an actual painless option instead of lethal injection or shooting them seems like as much of a step forward as we can get up to actually not executing people.

sevenapples ,

firing squads are probably a better idea than the lethal injection

eupraxia ,
@eupraxia@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

For the person being executed, firing squads are among the most “humane” methods. It’s fast, reliable, and simple. It’s not common because the brutality of painting someone’s brains on the wall is too clear for onlookers.

PersnickityPenguin ,

I think they typically aimed for the heart. In an by case, it causes trauma to the executioner too.

roboticide ,

Typically they aim for the heart. Not exactly an immediate or painless death.

I’d rather have the nitrogen.

stevedidWHAT ,
@stevedidWHAT@lemmy.world avatar

Yep. Which is how we end up building FUCKING concentration camps in the country and pave that road for a dictatorship to take over one of, if not the, leading super powers of the world.

This shit needs to stop and we need to address what is happening in the south before we start having some repeats that end in mass death. Enough is enough.

ArcaneSlime ,

Actually the (small L) libertarians are a little split on this issue, with most seeming to agree with me that the death penalty is a stupid fucking idea from multiple standpoints. Can’t trust the govt to get a damn thing right and that is no-take-backsies so no room for fuck ups (which they definitely have fucked up and killed innocent people, only to learn someone lied after it is too latw.)

OH you meant the republicans, who say “small government” but then through their actions prove they are just “the other side” of “big government” from the dems. Well, they’re “lying” in order to manipulate people into voting for them (tbf, I know that’s how they all get votes).

GiddyGap ,

Let him rot in prison.

ABOLISH CAPITAL PUNISHMENT

sfgifz ,

deleted_by_author

    •
    zephyreks ,

    The justice system isn’t perfect and you can’t roll back dying

    hungryphrog ,

    Also I feel like a goverment that is allowed to kill their citizens is a government with too much power.

    sfgifz ,

    Sure sure, but the comment above wanted the person to rot in jail for the rest of their existence. Which is why I mentioned a very specified a situation where the crime is clear.

    You’re arguing for cases where an innocent person may be found guilty - which is a very valid argument. I’m trying to figure out this crowd that wants people to suffer forever while they won’t even think of that person again in their life, besides maybe pay taxes to keep them alive.

    chargingtriceratops ,

    to rot in jail for the rest of their existence

    Because later on, if they were found to be actually innocent - the person rotting in jail can be released and compensated (to whatever extent false imprisonment can be compensated).

    If they were executed, it’s over. The injustice can’t be remediated in any way.

    GiddyGap ,

    Capital punishment is government sanctioned killing. Outside of war, the government should not have the power to kill anyone.

    For these people, death is also the easy way out. Prison time is harder.

    Not to mention cost. The complexity, finality, and litigation drive cost through the roof and make it much more expensive than life in prison.

    Blackmist ,

    assuming the person is truly guilty

    That’s the part where it falls to bits for me.

    Although you could allow people to choose euthanasia. Although even there it should be carried out privately rather than some ghoulish ceremony.

    derpgon ,

    Bring back the gladiator fights! I want sand, blood, and tigers!

    roboticide ,

    All you have to do is look at the times the government has got it wrong on convictions of people who turned out innocent to realize maybe the government shouldn’t make the decision to kill people.

    Look up the innocence project.

    SuckMyKiss ,

    Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement.

    blendertom ,

    That’s how it should be. But as with most things, it comes down to money. It’s cheaper to execute.

    AndyLikesCandy ,

    It’s really not cheaper in practice, the legal hurdles for the death penalty are more expensive to overcome than just keeping someone locked up for life.

    It might get cheaper if you’re executing in volume, like thousands of people, but then we’d be looking at a whole other sort of problems (like “how did we turn into China?”)

    GiddyGap ,

    It’s not cheaper to execute. It’s financially and morally very expensive.

    Pat12 ,

    “Smith was one of two men paid $1,000 each to murder Elizabeth Sennett on behalf of her preacher husband, Charles Sennett Sr., who was in debt and wanted to collect life insurance money.”

    Hold on, so why is he being executed? He wasn’t the one who ordered the murder. It seems like lots of other people request murders but those people aren’t sentenced to death.

    motor_spirit ,

    Right, bro is just caught up in the rat race same as the rest of us

    icesentry ,

    To be very, very clear, I do not support the death penalty but the rat race isn’t an excuse to kill someone.

    sip ,

    I don’t think he was trying to find excuses.

    captain_aggravated ,
    @captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works avatar

    “Preacher.”

    roboticide ,

    Because he accepted money in exchange to brutally beat and stabbed a person to death. “Just following orders,” has never been an acceptable excuse for an individual to commit a crime, but especially when it’s not an order in a military hierarchy, it’s payment and a voluntary agreement. Fuck him.

    Sennet Sr. committed suicide the moment the police started to investigate him. That’s why he’s not about to be executed.

    Alexstarfire ,

    I don’t think that was the argument being made. The argument, to me, is why sentenced to death instead of some other sentence. And, were the others that are also part of this crime sentenced.

    The article doesn’t seem to say anything about what happened to the others that are involved. Focused a lot on the execution method.

    Sounds like the guy just did this for the money so I also don’t understand why he’s being sentenced to death. Should just be prison time. But, I don’t have all the facts here.

    roboticide ,

    He’s sentenced to death because he committed a capital murder in a state with the death penalty and a jury found him guilty. “I did it for money” is not exactly a legal defense. An innocent person was still killed, and arguably doing it for money is worse. Fuck him.

    The other guy involved in the killing has already been executed, over ten years ago. It’s a well documented case and took me about a minute of Googling to figure out this guy isn’t particularly being singled out for death and the other got a lighter sentence.

    I personally don’t believe in the death penalty, but also if he didn’t want to be executed for murder, he shouldn’t have committed murder in the deep south.

    solstice ,

    I’m old school so I would just take a firing squad personally. Cigarette, blindfold, ratatatata drums, ready aim fire, the works.

    Indicah ,

    So then PTSD treatments for the hired employees? Seems like a problem that doesn’t require lifelong mental scarring of innocent lives, but who am I to say?

    solstice ,

    That’s why you get five guys to do the shooting so no one person is to blame. Give one of 'em a blank for good measure.

    Indicah ,

    Oh well then they should feel completely innocent and no one will suffer from mental health issues. That’s why people in the military don’t have PTSD, because everyone knows if there’s at least 5 people there, you’re good.

    /S

    solstice ,

    As opposed to the person who pushes the button to turn on the nitrogen? Or the person who pushes the lethal injection plunger into your veins? Or the person who throws the switch on the electric chair?

    We’re talking about state sanctioned murder so idk what you could possibly propose that insulates everyone from trauma.

    All this because I said I’d take a firing squad by the way if it came down to it. My choice. Just back off dude seriously, idk why you’re trying to start a ruckus over this.

    Indicah ,

    Lol oh right. I forgot this is only a place for your opinions. My bad.

    You’re the one advocating for state sanctioned murder, why would I have to defend it? Lol. There are plenty of options without additional lives being ruined.

    solstice ,

    At this point I’m convinced you are a bot designed to piss people off to drive engagement up, there’s no way anyone can be so intentionally thick and contrarian.

    Indicah , (edited )

    I know it’s hard to believe there are people that don’t believe in capital punishment, but not everyone is a robot out to get you lol

    solstice ,

    All this because I flippantly said I’d take a firing squad! I find it easier to believe that you’re a bot rather than a human being who made the decision to pounce up my ass over an offhand comment. Take a xanax and chill the fuck out, seriously.

    solstice ,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    Indicah ,

    Lol

    I asked you to explain yourself and your comment and you lost your mind.

    BURN ,

    Yeah, that’s still not going to help.

    Firing squad is also incredibly inhumane and does not guarantee an instant and painless death.

    Jax ,

    You act like there aren’t plenty of bloodthirsty degenerates that would jump at the chance to kill someone for free.

    Not everyone cares about human life.

    solstice ,

    But won’t someone think of the poor executioners who voluntarily took a job carrying out state sanctioned murder?!? /s

    This whole thread is lunacy.

    regalia ,

    You say that, then all the crazy gun nuts who crave this imaginary scenario are horny for the chance to murder. Though they may be bothered if it’s a white person. They’d shoot a colored person before you even have to ask!

    Emma_Gold_Man ,

    By “innocent lives” you’re talking about the people who just killed someone for money - the EXACT SAME THING this person is being killed for.

    squaresinger ,

    Can someone enlighten me why it’s so hard to find an execution method?

    I mean, tens of thousands of teens manage to execute themselves with the content of an average bathroom. How can it be that hard to find a fitting method?

    Especially if there are things like carbon monoxide poisoning which has been used by hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people to accidentally kill themselves without them even noticeing.

    And if you want a method that’s guaranteed to be painless, put someone’s head into a large fires cutter and drop a 10 ton weight onto it from 50 meters height. In an instance, there’s noting left that could feel weight.

    Or ask Ocean Gate for advice. From what Youtube told me, submersible implosings happen within a few milliseconds and have so much speed and pressure that they effectively vaporize the people inside. Pretty sure that’s rather painless.

    abigscaryhobo ,

    Without going on a whole dissertation, there are a lot of aspects that have to be figured out for a government sanctioned execution to occur.

    You could in theory just have an officer whip out a shotgun and bang, problem solved, much like you mentioned with suicide. But when it’s sanctioned by the government you have to be very discerning with a lot of different details.

    Why are we ending this person’s life

    Because we have deemed their actions excessively heinous and do not want them to drain further on society by being incarcerated

    In ending their life should we be causing them pain?

    Huge debate, but the main reason we use lethal injection or gas executions instead now is to end their life without pain or torture. Ideally a person would just be turned off like a light without them even noticing.

    How can you be sure you got the right person

    Big question, but we are talking execution

    What if the execution fails or goes incorrectly, now we’ve maimed someone and caused undue suffering, which as a people we have decided we wouldn’t do.

    Exactly. That’s why there are so many issues surrounding lethal injection chemicals and sources. How do you create these chemicals properly and precisely, without spending excess money or profiting off govt sanctioned murder.

    Why not carbon monoxide?

    Short answer, it’s flammable and dangerous to the people performing the executions. That’s why nitrogen is a decent possibility for something like this, it is inert, common, and can be acquired and vented away with little issue.

    I_Fart_Glitter ,

    Why are we ending this person’s life

    Because we have deemed their actions excessively heinous and do not want them to drain further on society by being incarcerated

    No. It costs more to execute someone than keep them incarcerated for many many decades. We end people’s lives because we have a justice boner and we imagine (incorrectly) that punishing people in this way will deter others from committing the same crimes.

    The study estimates that the average cost to Maryland taxpayers for reaching a single death sentence is $3 million - $1.9 million more than the cost of a non-death penalty case. (This includes investigation, trial, appeals, and incarceration costs.)

    www.leg.state.nv.us/App/…/OpenExhibitDocument?exh…

    abigscaryhobo ,

    That’s why I had the “and heinous actions” part. Life in prison is already a thing, we don’t execute people who got life, as you said it’s more expensive. But I suppose I could have better phrased it as “their actions were heinous enough that we don’t believe they deserve to have the right to life within our society”.

    I_Fart_Glitter ,

    ie Justice Boner. Life in prison is already separating them from society. We just like the feeling of state mandated murdering of murderers.

    It was so surprising to me when that serial baby killing nurse was in the news before her sentencing and headlines were speculating that she might get a rare life sentence (she did, she got 7 consecutive life sentences). But even through all that, the British people were commenting “I hope she gets the mental health help she needs while she’s in there” in sharp contrast to what US people usually say about hoping people suffer/are tortured/murdered in prison. Americans were voicing more gruesome hopes for Elizabeth Holmes’ prison stay than Brits did about Lucy Letby. We’re a brutal society.

    squaresinger ,

    I am solidly against executions and quite aware of the moral dilemata.

    I was just on about how easy it actually would be.

    Why not carbon monoxide?

    Short answer, it’s flammable and dangerous to the people performing the executions. That’s why nitrogen is a decent possibility for something like this, it is inert, common, and can be acquired and vented away with little issue.

    Tbh, I don’t think that’s an issue. Carbon monoxide is used in slaughterhouses worldwide. You’d think if it’s safe enough to handle for unskilled workers at industrial scale that a few highly paid executioners could use it without blowing up the complex.

    Case in point: even the nazis managed to handle it at industrial scale 80 years ago. And their budget for an execution wasn’t remotely as high as the US has.

    I mean, it’s probably not as sexy, because it directly shows how straight-up evil the practice of state-sponsored murder is (you know, using the same methods as literally the Nazis did), but then again, if you are a murder state, you are already past the point where you had a right to discuss ethics and morals.

    adrian783 ,

    you’re absolutely not past the point to discuss morals wtf?

    you think just because people are executed the methods don’t matter?

    squaresinger ,

    Tbh, yes. If you like state-sponsored murder, there is no point not using a simple, foolproof, painless method that is executed tens of thousands of times per day (on animals), just because it’s the method the Nazis preferred and thus makes you look a little bad.

    Mudering people already makes them look bad, and their mess with all these botched executions just makes them look bad AND incompetent.

    Dark_Lords_Servant ,

    In ending their life should we be causing them pain? Huge debate, but the main reason we use lethal injection or gas executions instead now is to end their life without pain or torture. Ideally a person would just be turned off like a light without them even noticing.

    Interestingly enough, because of certain happenings, these methods are often poorly prepared by a layman after a quick google search and mostly made to look like a quick death, with the person often suffering even for half an hour. We already have a solution. It’s called a guillotine. After 4 seconds the person is all gone, but it’s a messy death for any onlookers, so it’s not used.

    For anyone interested, here is a great video about how executions basically never changed in all but look: youtu.be/eirR4FHY2YY?si=9y_dbu8SBiDyPos-

    Franzia ,

    It all has to do with the Pharmaceutical industry.

    irotsoma ,
    @irotsoma@lemmy.world avatar

    First, no licensed medical personnel can participate since it violates the Hippocratic oath, so you have to design the protocol without any input from anyone who understands the human body well enough or any scientific studies because human experimentation designed to end a life is illegal. And then also carry it out without people who know how to find a vein, much less understanding what to do when things go wrong.

    And if it requires drugs or complex equipment whose sole use is executions, very few companies are going to want that contract. It’s not lucrative with no other uses, and you tarnish your reputation and possibly lose more lucrative contracts in less conservative states.

    There are very few methods that are effective and painless for everyone and not messy since you want people to watch, including the victims’ friends and families. That way you can justify the act, pretend that you’re using it as a crime deterrent, and fewer people are likely to feel sorry for the person and stop future executions. And it has to be cheap because one of the justifications is that life in prison is so costly.

    Honestly, the best bet for painlessness, ease of execution, and simplicity of the equipment and maintenance is the guilotine. But it’s messy and most people don’t want to see a headless body fall to the ground. And it’s hard to find workers to clean up after.

    squaresinger ,

    But, you don’t have to. You just get a butcher who knows how to do a carbon monoxide execution on animals and apply the same thing to humans.

    All you need is to pipe the exhaust of an old gasoline engine into a room and be done with it.

    Costs nothing, doesn’t require medical personell, not even medical equipment. There are tousands of people in the US who routinely do it and it’s as cheap as can be. All you need is an old car or a scrap engine, a hose and some gasoline.

    But I guess, since it was the favourite form of execution of the Nazis, it would probably be pretty on-the-nose about how terrible the act of state-sponsored murder is.

    krustymeathead ,

    The issue is this may be considered “cruel and unusual” punishment, and that is what lethal injection was designed to avoid. However, there are all sorts of problems with lethal injection in practice. Nitrogen would effectively be a better lethal injection without the complications (drug inventory, dosing amounts, etc).

    The issue here isn’t killing people. It’s doing so in a way the defense lawyer can’t argue against to a judge.

    squaresinger ,

    Tbh, the lethal injection with all that regularly goes wrong with it is super cruel and unusual.

    And isn’t murder in any instance cruel and unusual?

    vivadanang ,

    Honestly, the best bet for painlessness, ease of execution, and simplicity of the equipment and maintenance is the guillotine.

    I was thinking about a 50t weight. 10x10x10 cube of steel, put you into a socket, have you stand in the middle, drop. by the time your brain could register pain, everything would be a few mm thick layer of you-goo. It’d work every time, and you wouldn’t have to worry about the eyes blinking after, or the body running around like a chicken with it’s head cut off. No brain function would upset the executed.

    If I had to be executed, something like that would be vastly preferable to dying via asphyxiation whether chemical induced or atmospheric deprivation…

    LargestDong ,

    “tens of thousands” isnt even remotely close. A few hundred is more accurate. It’s important to be realistic with these figures so people don’t convince themselves it is normal to do.

    squaresinger ,

    Correct, my estimate was an order of magnitude too low.

    Worldwide, an estimated 700 000 people commit suicide per year. www.iasp.info/wspd/references/

    That’s almost 16 million since 2000.

    In the EU, that’s ~56 000 per year (ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/…/DDN-20180716-1).

    In the US it was 49449 in 2022 (www.cdc.gov/suicide/suicide-data-statistics.html), of which 6529 where <24 (can’t find data for <20).

    I didn’t specify a country and I didn’t specify a time frame. But your estimate of “a few hundred” is a number that would fit for “number of teens that commit suicide in the EU or the US in a 1-2 week timeframe”, and that was certainly not the definition I was going for.

    Brushing the issue under the table and trying to hide it will not help those who struggle with suicidal tendencies. Feeling like you are the only one going through this does not help. If you struggle with suicidal thoughts, you are seriously not alone. For everyone who does commit suicide, there are hundreds who struggle with the topic but manage to get past it. Please get help, you are worth it.

    lud , (edited )

    Part of the reason might be because lethal injection requires substances that are mostly manufactured in the EU and the EU refuses to sell it to the USA because they don’t want it to be used for killing people.

    www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-16281016

    Imbrex ,

    A typical fart is 59% nitrogen. The implications are obvious.

    Rediphile ,

    The fact that regular air is 78% nitrogen probably doesn’t imply what you are hoping lol.

    Imbrex ,

    I choose to believe this means there is a high concentration of fart in the atmosphere.

    HelixDab2 ,

    FWIW, nitrogen asphyxiation is one of the methods that’s preferred by advocates of assisted suicide. Done correctly–by which I mean in a way that doesn’t allow a buildup of CO2 in your bloodstream–it’s not only painless but gives you a mild high. The proper way to do it is with something like a BiPAP, where the air that’s being piped in is pure nitrogen, and the CO2 is all being removed immediately so you aren’t breathing it back in. Without a buildup of CO2 in your bloodstream, your brain doesn’t recognize that you’re suffocating.

    Have you ever breathed in helium from a balloon and gotten lightheaded? It’s about like that.

    I’m in favor of the death penalty in very, very rare cases–and this is not one where I would support it–and this is one of the surest, least barbaric ways to execute someone.

    PetDinosaurs ,

    Let’s tighten this up a bit.

    Inert gas asphyxiation is very much a great way to go, but it’s basically symptomless until after you lose consciousness.

    You don’t get high. The “high” people get is when they are choked out. I’m not really sure on the mechanism of that, though. You don’t get lightheaded. The lightheadedness is from the blood oxygen levels increasing.

    This is why it’s very dangerous to enter enclosed spaces. You simply don’t know you’re about to die until it’s too late. Plus, people come in to try to rescue you and succumb as well.

    Anyway, lots of people have this experience. It’s a common part of training for rebreathers for use in scuba diving.

    As far as good ways to die, inert gas asphyxiation is up there with “proper” lethal injection (i.e. with a commercial euthanasia drug), opiate overdose, or just anesthetizing the being and doing whatever gets the job done.

    FlowVoid ,

    Nitrogen can cause a “high” (aka nitrogen narcosis), but this effect only occurs at high pressures. So it is only a practical concern for divers, because they have to breathe high pressure air. Some divers replace the nitrogen in their tanks with other gases to avoid it.

    It is unrelated to asphyxiation, and can occur even when the lungs are properly exchanging oxygen and CO2. It is a poorly understood direct interaction between high pressure nitrogen and the brain that does not occur at atmospheric pressure.

    PetDinosaurs ,

    Correct. Extremely different thing.

    Also, despite what they say in fight club, oxygen does not get you high either.

    Nitrous oxide however…

    ciaocibai ,

    When I did my deep diving certification one of the things they got us to do was try and do maths of varying complexity (compared to previously doing it on the surface). I didn’t feel high at all, but most of us had slower response times and more errors at depth, apparently as a side effect of the increased nitrogen. Pretty wild.

    meldroc , (edited )

    IIRC the hypoxia “high” panic reaction is from an elevated level of CO2 - that’s the evolved mechanism by which humans detect they’re in a bad place for breathing. Not absence of O2.

    Edit: Correction: Hypoxia alone gets you high just before you keel over. It’s the CO2 buildup that activates your body’s panic reactions.

    squaresinger ,

    When I was ~10 I attended a wedding. Me and the other kids where tasked to fill balloons with helium and we did so without supervision. Naturally, we breathed some helium in and talked in funny voices.

    I then had the bright idea to try to breathe as many of these balloons without normal air in between.

    After the third of these, I lost conciousness. To me it felt as if I was gone for maybe half an hour. I was basically dreaming weird stuff. Luckily I stayed in my seat during that time and didn’t fall over or something. Noone of the others noticed anything, so it couldn’t have been that long. Maybe a few seconds in reality.

    reverendsteveii ,

    Watching the murder states scramble for new ways to murder as they run out of unethical people willing to sell them murder supplies has been interesting.

    AngryAnusHornets ,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    Powerpoint ,

    Pro death

    PlanetOfOrd ,

    While proponents of the new method have theorized it would be painless, opponents have likened it to human experimentation.

    Isn’t that how we’re doing the death penalty anyway? We’re trying to find a “painless” way to kill someone, but is there ever really a painless way to do this? I’d imagine even if I’m sitting in a massage chair with classical music playing it wouldn’t matter if I knew that half an hour from now I wouldn’t be leaving the room.

    And we can’t really ask doctors because doctors have taken an oath to “do no harm.”

    The death penalty is just a punishment no one wants to do (well, okay, I’m sure there are plenty of people that have no problem with it), but we’ve told ourselves that we have to do it.

    PoliticalAgitator ,

    Not only are there plenty of people who have no problem with it, there’s plenty of people who will be upset the killing wasn’t more barbaric.

    And it’s pure blood-lust. They know the criminal can never reoffend. They know the death won’t bring back the victims or bring peace to their family. They know it won’t stop other people committing the same crime. They weren’t impacted by the crime in the slightest and don’t seem to have any real compassion for those who were.

    But they want to see the criminals fry anyway.

    Threads like this make it extremely clear the the reason the western world isn’t executing women in soccer stadiums is because the people who make those decisions said “no”, not because it wouldn’t draw a crowd.

    bitsplease ,

    Yup, if this takes off, we can absolutely expect people to start complaining that death row criminals are getting off easy.

    People will pull out the usual excuses for cruelty in our criminal justice system “well, their victim didn’t get a peaceful death!” and shit like that. As though making the perpetrator (and it’s always a possibility that they were falsely convicted) suffer an agonizing death will retroactively lessen the victims stuffering.

    Its sick, but it’s absolutely going to happen.

    tryptaminev ,

    Wether a country still has a death penalty ot not is a pretty good indicator for how civilised it is.

    Most socially developed countries abolished it over the course of the past 100 years.

    FlowVoid ,

    Another indicator is whether the people in a country still divide the world into “civilized” and “uncivilized” countries.

    tryptaminev ,

    It is a spectrum.

    But i hope you dont want to argue that falsely convicting and killing people, using botched methods involving a lot of pain and suffering can be considered civilised.

    FlowVoid ,

    Every country can be considered uncivilized in its own way.

    maniacal_gaff ,

    So… a spectrum.

    FlowVoid , (edited )

    No, a spectrum implies that a country can “more” or “less” civilized. But there is no civilizometer capable of such a determination.

    It’s the same reason why countries do not lie on a spectrum when judging whether they have “beautiful” or “ugly” inhabitants. Any attempt at a ranking is hopelessly biased.

    SheeEttin ,

    Or just subjective.

    meldroc ,

    I’ll admit, it’s an improvement over previous methods, though that’s not saying much. Everything’s normal, breathing fine, until lights out!

    My objection to the death penalty is that sooner or later, it’s inevitable, the law will fuck it up and execute innocent people. Some people just can’t do adulting around this. Sooner or later, a crime happens, people clamor for blood, the state rounds up the wrong guy and railroads him.

    Franzia ,

    This isn’t experimentation and it isn’t new. I fucking hate this talking point. It’s a well-established, safe, and potentially harmless method, unlike the shit we were doing before.

    Still doesn’t make it right.

    30mag ,

    Prosecutors said Smith was one of two men who were each paid $1,000 to kill Sennett on behalf of her husband, who was deeply in debt and wanted to collect on insurance.

    $1000? Dirty deeds and they’re done dirt cheap.

    Coach ,

    Redneck engineering?

    bdonvr ,

    I’m definitely against the death penalty but if they’re gonna do it anyway this seems like one of the better options

    JohnDClay ,

    Not going out on a morphine high?

    Mdotaut801 ,

    Right? Like why can’t the lethal injection be an overdose of fentanyl or carfentanyl? It’d be cheap and easy. I’m not advocating for the death penalty, just wondering why it isn’t that way.

    Spendrill ,

    Because the cretins that believe in the death penalty, and they are cretins if they believe in the death penalty, want the process to be as horrific as it can be while not shattering the illusion (for them) that it isn’t barbaric. They don’t want it to be quick and they definitely don’t want it to be painless.

    30mag ,

    They don’t want it to be quick and they definitely don’t want it to be painless.

    Then why are they pumping people full of phenobarbital? From what I understand, that isn’t a particularly unpleasant way to die.

    Spendrill ,

    AFAIK the execution protocols that use phenobarbitol also use other chemicals to actually cause fatality, which are reportedly very nasty to experience. They also use butt plugs. This is to reduce discomfort for the witnesses. As I said, the illusion of a civilised procedure is important for them.

    30mag ,

    Botched executions occur when there is a breakdown in, or departure from, the “protocol” for a particular method of execution. … Botched executions are “those involving unanticipated problems or delays that caused, at least arguably, unnecessary agony for the prisoner or that reflect gross incompetence of the executioner.”

    That definition is rather broad. If you use that definition, I think the guy they are talking about executing has already been the victim of one botched execution.

    Alabama attempted to execute Smith by lethal injection last year, but called off the execution because of problems inserting an IV into his veins.

    If I am to be executed, I want a firing squad, a lit cigarette, and I don’t want anything crammed in my ass.

    30mag ,

    I don’t see how anyone could possibly imagine that electricity could be a civilized way to kill someone.

    October 16, 1985. Indiana. William E. Vandiver. Electrocution. After the first administration of 2,300 volts, Vandiver was still breathing. The execution eventually took 17 minutes and five jolts of electricity.[8] Vandiver’s attorney, Herbert Shaps, witnessed the execution and observed smoke and the smell of burning. He called the execution “outrageous.” The Department of Corrections admitted the execution “did not go according to plan.”[9]

    meldroc ,

    Reminds me of The Green Mile, when Percy “forgets” to wet the sponge…

    reverendsteveii , (edited )

    the illusion of a civilized procedure

    youtu.be/eirR4FHY2YY?si=EUtz57QxdB_QouXa

    Jacob Geller is one of my favorite YouTubers, and he did a really insightful video about how the purpose of the death penalty has changed. It used to be pretty clearly about showing the public that if they fuck up they’ll be snatched up and killed horrifically. He supports this with both the innumerable variations people have come up with for the fairly simple task of killing someone else, and how both the execution itself and the body of the condemned were prominent in the public eye (think gibbets and things like that). He argues that now the death penalty is in this weird sort of limbo where it’s considered distasteful to make a gleeful spectacle of it but that proponents still think that the specter of being snatched up by the state and killed is important for maintaining a peaceful society so you have all these half measures and stutter steps that are ostensibly designed to be humane for the prisoner but are really there for the comfort and moral superiority of the audience. As an example he talks about the paralytic agent in the lethal injection cocktail that does nothing to relieve pain but prevents the condemned from visibly reacting to that pain. Knowingly or unknowingly, the death penalty is walking this weird line where everyone involved is allowed to pretend that they don’t want to do it but that they’re bound just as much as the condemned, there are still artifacts of the performative death penalty from days of yore left over in our processes and procedures for killing a condemned person but that proponents have recently made it soft, comfortable and hidden precisely because they recognize that continuing in the old ways will end with the abolition of the death penalty. We’ve changed as a society from “let’s pop on down to the town square after dinner to watch the hanging” to “let’s get this nasty business over with behind closed doors so as not to make people uncomfortable”.

    AEsheron ,

    Biggest reason is probably that it will be a lot easier to administer. Injection when you can’t used a medical profession is kind of a pain for everyone involved.

    adamantris ,
    @adamantris@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    theres actually a thing called nitrogen narcosis. while i still find states that use the death penalty abhorrent, its one of the nicer ways to go. while breathing a pure oxygen-defficient gas you also dont have a feeling that you are suffocating since you can breathe off carbon dioxide just fine. thats why exit bags are a thing in the first place

    droans ,

    You can’t breathe carbon dioxide like you can breathe oxygen. Nitrogen works well because it’s soluble in the body and will replace oxygen, meaning aside from the mental effects, you don’t notice it.

    CO2 doesn’t work the same, though. It won’t replace oxygen and will produce a feeling of suffocation.

    brygphilomena ,

    That’s what he’s saying. You can exhale the CO2 and breathe in the nitrogen.

    CO2 is what causes the burning sensation in the lungs when you hold your breath too long.

    reverendsteveii ,

    Not entirely true. CO2 won’t reabsorb but the inability to get rid of what’s already there will cause it to build up. It’s the presence of excess CO2 that causes the body’s suffocation response. This is why people sleep right through being suffocated by CO and why they theorize that nitrogen will have the same response

    tryptaminev ,

    for diving it is quite different though.

    Nitrogen high starts (with normal pressurized air) at around 40m depths which means 5bar pressure or roughly 4bar partial pressure for the nitrogen. It then starts getting into your synapses partly blocking them.

    even with 100% pure nitrogen at normal pressure you just get 1bar. So you wont get high from it.

    Franzia ,

    Content warning >!linking to a method of suicide!<

    JackbyDev ,

    Folks who are confused by this, your body doesn’t detect when you’re low on oxygen, only when you have too much carbon dioxide. That’s why exhaling while holding your breath helps you hold your breath longer (to an extent). Nitrogen doesn’t caused the sensation of suffocating while still depriving you of oxygen.

    I disagree with capital punishment but have always wondered about this for stuff like assisted suicide.

    JTheDoc ,

    That’s the thing, we all have to compromise. I don’t support it either, but if something unethical happens, and people still want to keep supporting it, we have to at least convince them to use the “best version” of said thing so it’s at least as humane as we can make it possibly be. I’m shocked we still continue to use these complicated and ancient methods of execution that have questionable reliability or ethics when it comes to suffering.

    It’d be interesting to see how it would be used for AS for sure!

    Maruki_Hurakami , (edited )

    Unless you have COPD. That’s why’s it’s dangerous to give high flow O2 to people with COPD.

    www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5461124/

    lennybird , (edited )
    @lennybird@lemmy.world avatar

    Over this summer I’ve been trying to break my record for holding breath underwater. 2:13 was best I could muster but in my experimentation, after slow and steady initial breathing and reduced muscle usage, inhaling one giant breath at the end and holding definitely let’s me stay under longer. This is better until the CO2 saturation of my lungs equals the saturation in the blood. Then, for whatever reason, slowly trickling the air out buys a little more time. This probably helps calm and fool the brain into thinking you’re desaturating.

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • •
  • [email protected]
  • random
  • lifeLocal
  • goranko
  • All magazines
    •