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jeffw ,
@jeffw@lemmy.world avatar

washingtonpost.com/…/open-convention-democrats-bi…

“How Democrats would pick a new candidate if Biden drops out, step by step”

One [possibility] is a virtual vote that would lock in a new nominee in early August, and the other is an “open” convention, a scenario the party hasn’t experienced since 1968.
A convention is open when no candidate arrives with a clear majority of delegates, so the event turns into a mini-primary in which contenders scramble to persuade delegates to vote for them…
Some states have August deadlines to get on the ballot for the general election, and early voting begins in some places in September. So party leaders probably would try to settle the nomination before the Democratic National Convention begins Aug. 19.

There are two types of Democratic delegates. Pledged delegates commit to supporting the candidate state voters chose, although a “good conscience” clause in the party’s rules gives them a bit of wiggle room.

Automatic delegates, often called superdelegates, are the party’s highest-profile leaders. They have the role because of the offices they hold (or held), and the group includes former presidents and vice presidents, Democratic governors, members of Congress and party officials. They are not pledged to any candidate and are not allowed to vote on the first ballot at the convention.

PythagreousTitties ,

Clusterfuck it is, then. Oh boy.

SpaceCowboy ,
@SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

Not really. It’ll be Harris. Biden endorsed her and already other potential Dem front-runners are endorsing her. Within in a few days it’ll be like she’s the incumbent and no one will want to run against her for the same reasons they didn’t run against Biden. Plus the additional reason that they don’t want to screw up their chances of being her VP pick.

Rayspekt ,

Dumb question. Why didn’t they just schedule the convention prior to all deadlines regardless who runs for office? Is there any benefit to meeting so late?

jeffw ,
@jeffw@lemmy.world avatar

It is before the deadlines but just barely. Typically the candidate is known before the convention, so you already have enough signatures to get on the ballot in every state

Zaktor ,

It wasn’t when they scheduled it. It was after Ohio’s deadline. And major parties don’t need signatures to put forward candidates.

jeffw ,
@jeffw@lemmy.world avatar

Not in a general, no. They do in a primary though. In this case, you’re right, the candidate would get on the ballot by the delegates voting

cerement ,
@cerement@slrpnk.net avatar

a scenario the party hasn’t experienced since 1968

because the 1968 Democratic Convention went swimmingly – oh, they’re also holding this year’s convention in Chicago again you say? with increased police presence as well?

gAlienLifeform ,
@gAlienLifeform@lemmy.world avatar

Well, at least there isn’t anything controversial going on overseas that’s got the college kids riled up this time /s

Bassman1805 ,

HO-LEE SHI-TUH

reallykindasorta ,

Bernie 2024, even if he dies of a heart attack first day his appointments would change the country for good and I don’t trust any party politicians on Palestine.

girlfreddy ,
@girlfreddy@lemmy.ca avatar

I’m hoping for a Kamala/AOC ticket.

timewarp ,
@timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

Seeing AOC oddly shill for Biden before he dropped out… which I’d expect from Pelosi, Schumer & Schiff, but not from her. She may actually be trying to get the VP spot.

timbuck2themoon ,

Maybe she had better political acumen and knew he’d do better.

timewarp ,
@timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

Maybe she saw an opportunity

ShepherdPie ,

How can one know how well a candidate will do in a future election?

Carrolade ,

She just did the calculus that Biden was our best shot, due to a whole shitton of different factors from Biden’s support among elderly voters, union support, money raised, polls being pretty crap for a few cycles now, shit like that.

Now there will be logistical challenges, we have a lot of uncertainty ahead. She wanted to avoid that until we got some better answers.

timewarp ,
@timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

Biden bros: No one has a plan if Biden drops out. Everyone else: Here is our plan. Biden bros still: No one has a plan if Biden drops out.

Plan was open convention where delegates decide.

Carrolade ,

Yes, that’s an excellent example of uncertainty.

timewarp ,
@timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

What is better… knowing Biden would lose to Trump, or being uncertain who the delegates will choose before the convention?

ilmagico ,

Nobody knew for sure Biden would lose and nobody knows for sure that whoever is picked will win. It was high uncertainty all along.

Perfide ,

If that’s what you call a “plan”, never manage anything, ever.

mosiacmango ,

Or you could read her arguments, which were direct and pragmatic. She was talking about how difficult this would be logistically, and that it would have been better to do 6 months ago, you know, when the progressive wing of the party raised the issue.

AOC was “shilling” for some consistency, backbone and party unity out of a pragmatic need to beat back fascism. Now that this choice has been made, I’m betting she will continue with the same intent.

timewarp ,
@timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

Biden was going to lose and he was making other Democrats lose. What did you expect the party to do, unite behind losing to Trump?

AOC was prob smart, saw Biden didn’t believe he was going to lose and saw an opportunity before it played out.

TipRing ,

Further, Bernie and AOC are rather well aware that the progressive wing of the party would likely be blamed for “party disunity” if Biden stayed in and lost. They will not do anything to let the DNC scapegoat their caucus.

the_tab_key ,

Which is hilarious because Pelosi, Schumer, and Schiff were all against Biden continuing in the race…

AOC understands politics and thinks things through, that’s it.

timewarp ,
@timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

AOC has always been considered an outsider to Democrat leadership. She prob was thinking things through, but I don’t think it is because she thought Biden was going to win.

ShepherdPie ,

I agree it was likely more about party unity and not biting the hand that feeds you.

revelrous ,

Imo she’s trying to shield progressives from being the scapegoat, like how we got the blame for dem dysfunction in '16.

SpaceCowboy ,
@SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

Politics is about getting the things you want, not dunking on people that disagree with you on a couple of things. You gotta compromise with people to get what you want. People feel like being uncompromising is somehow admirable, but in politics it means you get nothing. MAGAs are uncompromising, and they get a lot of likes on social media for it, but they’ve accomplish exactly nothing after winning the House in 2022.

Biden has been good for the progressive wing of the party, and they may not get as good of a deal with Harris as they did with Biden. They will have to negotiate compromises with someone new and may not get as much.

So do you rather politicians compromising and getting something to benefit you, or grandstanding and accomplishing nothing except providing a small amount of entertainment for you?

jeffw ,
@jeffw@lemmy.world avatar

Biden just endorsed Kamala, so that much is likely. The VP will probably be one from a shortlist of 5 or so governors/senators from swing states.

FlowVoid ,

Maybe, but then the swing state could end up with a GOP governor. That’s one reason why VPs are often from safe seats, eg Harris, Pence, Biden, Palin, Quayle…

jeffw ,
@jeffw@lemmy.world avatar

The shortlist I’ve seen thrown around a lot so far is pretty much Whitmer, Shapiro, Cooper, and Kelly. Maybe someone like Beshear, but I’d call that slightly lower odds than the others. I think they will probably lean away from a 2 woman ticket too

FlowVoid ,

I think you could add Pritzker to that list

acosmichippo ,
@acosmichippo@lemmy.world avatar

that would be great, but there’s no way they double down on minorities and women in the same ticket. get ready for a biden jr as the VP.

WanderingVentra ,

That would be cool but I suspect it will be a white, straight man to balance out the ticket for the racists and sexists. Maybe someone from a swing state.

ShepherdPie ,

Yes more pandering from the DNC to the far right individuals who would never vote for a Democrat to begin with.

audiomodder ,

Aka what Biden was to Obama

twistypencil ,

Is AOC old enough?

jo3shmoo ,

Yes she’d be 35 before taking office.

TexasDrunk ,

She will be by the election.

tryitout ,

She will be by inauguration which is all that matters.

marito ,

Yes, she’ll be 35 by election day.

ShepherdPie ,

She will be before the election and long before the inauguration.

twistypencil ,

Ok, 1000 people replied, thank you, you can stop now lol

teejay ,

She will be by the time she’d take the oath.

ThePyroPython ,

As an outside observer I find it hard to believe that a place as right-wing as the US would elect a woman of colour as president. Isn’t that double red rag to the nutjob bulls?

NoIWontPickAName ,

Most of them were already voting trump anyway

gh0stcassette ,
@gh0stcassette@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

We elected Obama already, and the people who are so racist/sexist that they wouldn’t vote for Harris are mostly voting Trump. Plus, her being a woman means she can go way harder on Abortion, which is a winning strategy atm since support for abortion rights is insanely high and Republicans are actively trying to ban it completely.

WoahWoah ,

Automatic loss.

Gerudo ,

Hot damn I had forgotten about a new vp pick in the middle of all this. AOC won’t be it but needs to be.

kn0wmad1c ,
@kn0wmad1c@programming.dev avatar

What happens now? Does the DNC pick a replacement or will they be holding a snap primary?

Thekingoflorda OP ,
@Thekingoflorda@lemmy.world avatar

A new canidate will be picked during the DNC on 19-22 august.

alvvayson ,

Correct.

And Kamala is the most logical choice, because there will be the least amount of legal hurdles, since she was already on the ticket.

And the Republicans already said they are going to mount legal challenges, which can easily lead to SCOTUS deciding the election. So I expect Sanders, AOC and progressives to strongly push for Kamala.

But I fully expect the DNC to push forward some corporate candidate like Bloomberg.

It’s going to be interesting.

someguy3 ,

How is it that states can decide (or whatever the correctt word is) who’s on the ballot when the party hasn’t even officially nominated a candidate? I know that political parties are separate from election institutions, but it seems very strange. And it seems very early for states to have it set in stone.

Zaktor ,

They can’t. The nominee is chosen by the party and then communicated to the states. The states do have deadlines for being on it and this year some organizational genius scheduled the convention after the earliest deadline in Ohio. Ohio has since moved that deadline back, but the structure of the law leaves room for shenanigans so the DNC is moving forward with a virtual vote before the convention.

someguy3 ,

So legally it should be fine to decide at the DNC?

Zaktor ,

Yes, with a big asterisk on the “should”. The law that pushes the deadline back may theoretically not go into effect until after the deadline is passed, and they paired it with some other campaign finance rules that are probably unconstitutional, so there’s an outside chance the whole thing gets struck down.

All that said, the Democrats won’t win Ohio for the presidential race. They want to be on the ballot to help turnout for the Democratic senator who’s running at the same time. So if they took a risk and lost, it wouldn’t be the end of the world.

alvvayson ,

I am not a lawyer, but what is clear is that each State sets its own laws. By the constitution, States are in charge of elections.

What I have heard is that Biden has to release his delegates, who are already bound to him. Many states have already had their primaries completed with the Biden/Harris ticket winning.

Sending those electors to the Convention and letting them choose someone else is going to be a grey area.

If they choose Harris, it’s pretty sound. When a president steps down, the VP becomes president, so there is definitely precedent and a legal basis.

But if Biden releases his delegates and lets them vote for anyone? That will be challenged and it will go to the supreme court. And SCOTUS is corrupt enough to find some flimsy legal excuse that helps Republicans.

So yeah, that’s what I’ve heard. But I am not an expert.

dhork ,

Mike Bloomberg? He’s older than Biden

SirDerpy ,

There are no legal hurdles. The private organization can nominate whomever they want regardless of their votes and their rules.

audiomodder ,

The legal hurdles aren’t in the nomination, they’re in monies donated directly to the Biden/Harris campaign

SirDerpy ,

The only way money is beholden to a campaign is because a major donor insisted upon it. And, no one is asking for a refund on executive and legislative influence.

MeThisGuy ,

pick me

the_crotch ,

The legal hurdles are around getting their candidate on state ballots

SirDerpy ,

Nice insight. Democratic Secretaries of State will find a way. But, Republican Secretaries of State will definitely resist.

I want to be of a mind that they made the bed to exclude third parties and now should lie in it. But, perhaps this is an opportunity to change the rules of ballot access for the better.

mosiacmango ,

You think the DNC is going to try to push out the centrist, sitting vice president of their party during a presidential election? The vice presidential that aligns with the majority of their constituents, has a huge war chest of money, and is a well know and generally liked member of the party?

The DNC are idiots, but that makes no sense at all.

timewarp ,
@timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

Serious? I haven’t even had time to see that. That is the best decision they could have made.

dhork ,

The new candidate will be picked before then, they were already planning an early roll call vote because the DNC convention is too late for some state deadlines.

hitstun ,
@hitstun@fedia.io avatar

August 7 is the deadline. The problem is my state, Ohio. By law, the Democrats must nominate someone in 17 days or be left off the ballot. It's way too fast for a special primary election.

This is certainly going to face legal challenges in red states, too. The orange one will probably run unopposed in states like Florida.

holycrap ,

My understanding is they pick a replacement

jeffw , (edited )
@jeffw@lemmy.world avatar

Anything could happen. Most likely is the elected delegates will decide at the convention (edit: when you vote for “Biden,” you are basically voting for who the delegates that will elect him will vote for, so you still elected those delegates). Redoing a primary before then would be next to impossible. Takes weeks or months to get signatures to get on the ballot, then you need time to recruit staff to work the polls, etc.

wjrii ,

Yup. I would be literally stunned if any state primary has no legal path forward for what to do if a primary candidate drops out before the convention. It could get messy, but this idea that the dems will not have a candidate in some states come November is FUD.

Broadly, when Americans vote in primaries, they are not voting directly for a candidate but kicking off a process that will ultimately send delegates to the party’s national convention. Those delegates are the ones who officially pick the nominee — and the Democrats’ convention hasn’t happened yet.

www.politico.com/news/…/what-next-biden-00170001

SpaceCowboy ,
@SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

Yeah it’s the convention where it’s made official that a person is the nominee. If he dropped out after the convention… now that would be a mess. But as it is now, the guy that was the presumptive nominee yesterday is not longer the presumptive nominee.

morphballganon ,

If the DNC of the past is any indication, they’ll ignore voters and put up the most boring, uncompelling candidate they can.

solrize ,

Alternatively: they put up the most divisive and cringeworthy candidate they can.

timewarp ,
@timewarp@lemmy.world avatar

I wanted AOC but her last few posts have been cringe. She’s divisive, but that could have worked in her favor. Prob. will be Kamala. I think they should have an open convention & let delegates decide though.

AbidanYre ,

Sorry, Trump’s already running as a Republican.

cerement ,
@cerement@slrpnk.net avatar

DNC busy trying to get Manchin and Sinema to come back to the fold

AbidanYre ,

Oh man, if they both come back it’s just a question of which one is on top of the ticket.

ShepherdPie ,

And those of us in the party who aren’t right-leaning will get blamed when they lose.

VanillaBean ,

Welp they must have looked at the data and saw Kamala or someone else would do significantly better. Hope they’re right.

woop_woop ,

The dnc has famously been able to do that

chemical_cutthroat ,
@chemical_cutthroat@lemmy.world avatar

Well known for picking the strongest candidate.

WoahWoah ,

TechAnon ,

I hope so and if true we have to trust the data. My vote is solid blue based on virtues and most policies. There’s probably a lot of others like me.

SpaceCowboy ,
@SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

It’s basically 50/50 with either Biden or Harris at the top of the ticket. Everything is in the margin of error, and polling has been notoriously inaccurate with Trump on the ballot.

So you have to basically ignore the simple Trump vs. Biden or Trump vs. Harris or (Trump vs. anyone else you can think of) numbers because it’s pretty much unknown. But the data says a majority (even an majority of Democrats) want someone other than Biden on the ballot at election. BTW a majority of voters also want someone other than Trump on the ballot too.

There’s also some data to suggest Trump is making some inroads with young male Black and Hispanic voters. Harris will negate a significant amount of that immediately and potentially even more when the GOP can’t resist blowing their racist dog whistles and show voters who they really are.

So it’s kinda about looking at the data, but I think a large part of it is simple campaign facts. In times past a Presidential candidate would do two (sometimes three) rallies in two different states per day. And do interviews while traveling between campaign events. Trump isn’t capable of that pace. Biden most certainly isn’t capable of that pace. Harris can do that. We really haven’t seen a 100% balls to the wall presidential campaign in a while because it’s been two old guys in the last election and in this one… until now.

Remember Biden also had to do the job of being President of the country while also campaigning. That’s a lot of work for even someone young, and Biden is so very old. Sure Harris is VP, but that’s mostly just getting some briefings (too keep up on events in case she might need to take over as Prez) and breaking ties in the Senate (which probably won’t be needed between now and election day). She can devote almost all of her time to campaigning while Biden couldn’t.

nl4real ,

It’s finally over. Now get in someone who can beat Trump.

Montagge ,

Who exactly?

Qkall ,
@Qkall@lemmy.ml avatar

yeah… i don’t think harris is the answer…

girlfreddy ,
@girlfreddy@lemmy.ca avatar

If Harris is in, she can use the money already donated. Otherwise they have to start from scratch.

So it’s almost guaranteed Harris will be in. Who they pick for VP is the question.

PythagreousTitties ,

Can they still keep her as VP and put someone else on as prez?

dhork ,

Harris/Whitmer is my bet

ricecake ,

On the one hand: “you can’t have her she’s ours!”. On the other, she’s out in 26 regardless, and she’s pretty good so maybe we can share with the rest of the country.

Qkall ,
@Qkall@lemmy.ml avatar

I just don’t think she can beat big orange. I’m not saying she shouldn’t … but I don’t know … doubtful

mosiacmango ,

He was a prosecutor for years, so she has plently of oratory chops, and shes 20 years younger than trump to boot.

Her only liability is the she is a she and there are plently of sexist fucks out there. Thats it.

alquicksilver ,
@alquicksilver@lemmy.world avatar

You forgot that she’s a POC and there are also tons of racists fucks out there.

Even before getting to her actual credentials (some great, others really not), people will be assholes. I still have hope that she, as a former prosecutor, could mop the floor with the fascists.

Zaktor ,

On the plus side, racist and sexist heavily overlap.

Emperor ,
@Emperor@feddit.uk avatar

July 11th poll:

Americans divide 46-47% between Biden and Trump if the election were today, almost identical to a 44-46% ABC/Ipsos poll result in April. Among registered voters (though there’s plenty of time to register) it’s an absolute tie, 46-46%.

Were Vice President Kamala Harris to replace Biden as the Democratic nominee, vote choices are 49-46%, Harris-Trump, among all adults (and 49-47% among registered voters). Harris’ 49% is slightly better than Biden’s 46%, although she doesn’t have a statistically significant lead over Trump.

Also possibly key:

Both candidates [Biden and Trump] face a high degree of scorn. About 4 in 10 Americans say neither has the mental sharpness or the physical health to serve effectively, and as many say neither is honest and trustworthy. Sixty percent say Trump is too old for a second term, also a new high, up from 44% in spring 2023. And in a sign of the nation’s political polarization, 50% say that given his debate performance, Trump should step aside in favor of another nominee – although, in contrast with Biden, very few of Trump’s own supporters say so.

WoahWoah ,

You can expect Harris’s numbers to drop given she’s vulnerable to almost every criticism Biden was except age and the fact that the Trump campaign has already been preparing to attack her.

Pandantic ,
@Pandantic@midwest.social avatar

And they’ve already made anti-Harris ads, which I heard on live CNN rn that they are already running them.

SeaJ , (edited )

No, they don’t. The Democratic Party can give the donated money to whoever is the candidate. Not sure where people are getting that.

Edit: After reading up, I am mistaken. If Harris is still the VP candidate, the money could be used. Otherwise a PAC would have to be setup to funnel money to the candidate.

mrlavallee ,
@mrlavallee@lemmy.world avatar

The money Biden has raised directly however can only go to the people that were on his ticket at the time the donation was made

xmunk ,

That’s correct, but nearly none of the money is the direct donation stuff - it’s almost in PACs which are (due to a legal fiction) entirely independent of the candidate.

mrlavallee ,
@mrlavallee@lemmy.world avatar

There are still more restrictions however on spending on other candidates and they would have to act like any other PAC, only helping via donating/running ads in support of (but importantly not directly by) any other candidate.

FlowVoid ,

The $100 million warchest belongs to the Biden/Harris campaign, not the Democratic Party. They are separate organizations, and Biden/Harris only answers to Biden and Harris.

The DNC has its own funds of course, but nowhere near as much. And DNC funds are supposed to be shared with multiple Democrats, not just the one running for president.

Zaktor ,

And notably even if Biden/Harris were supporting the alternative, they’re an outside group. They can spend like a super PAC, but can’t pay bills or do direct advertising.

Tryptaminev ,

I find this so insane. People talk about who gets to keep the money, who has which rich asshole routing for them, which strategy has been successfull in the past, like always setting up the current president for reelection…

We need to focus on who has actually inspiring policies and ideas. We need to focus on these, because that is what the Reps lack. All they offer is “not the Dems” while the policies they propose are actually unpopular with many of their base. And the whole “Not Trump” strategy of Biden just fell apart.

Is there noone in the Democratic party who can actually come up with a coherent vision of the future and inspire people to follow it?

Pandantic ,
@Pandantic@midwest.social avatar

Is there no one in the Democratic party who can actually come up with a coherent vision of the future and inspire people to follow it?

This is why I think Pete Buttigieg should throw his hat in if they do have a primary. He just had a Bill Maher interview that just went viral because he knows how to talk to the common people. I think his visions are inspiring, he’s done a lot of work for his department, and he isn’t afraid to walk across party lines and go on Republican shows to talk about the real problems. He’s smart enough to smash Trump in a debate, calling out all his lies, and even if Trump is too scared to debate him, he has no problem laying out Trump’s lies elsewhere coherently and cognitively.

Montagge ,

Half of America lost it’s mind when Obama was elected, and we’re still dealing with the fallout from that lovely dose of racism. There’s no way Kamala could win in this country.

Qkall ,
@Qkall@lemmy.ml avatar

like all that aside, a lot of folks aren’t appreciative of her background as a cop… but yeah that’s a cherry to what you already mentioned

mosiacmango ,

And a lot of swing voters will probably like that she was a prosecutor, a “law and order” type.

ImADifferentBird ,
@ImADifferentBird@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I think most of the “law and order” types might have a bigger problem with her being a black woman.

mosiacmango ,

She aint “black” as much as “brown.” Its an incredibly stupid hair to split, but indians are generally considered a “model minority” by racists, so it will likely hurt her but not as much as you may think.

ImADifferentBird ,
@ImADifferentBird@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Isn’t she half-black and half-Indian? Or am I mistaken on that?

Regardless, the flame out of Bobby Jindal shows what those folks think of Indians anyway.

mosiacmango ,

No, you’re right. I honestly forgot she was half black.

I guess I hope the “moderate” racists do as well.

nao ,

still the other half was enough to elect him

Zaktor ,

Obama won. And then won again. Stop pumping up the reactionaries as some unstoppable force. They’re a minority and have been on a long term losing streak.

ImADifferentBird ,
@ImADifferentBird@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

She’ll have to be. Anybody else would be starting from square one, and that’s a luxury we don’t have right now.

fossilesque , (edited )
@fossilesque@mander.xyz avatar

I don’t particularly like her, then again I detest nearly all politicians. That being said, I’m more motivated to vote, that’s for certain. I didn’t mind Biden, but it felt like elder abuse lol. He’s been better than anyone in my lifetime. Good God, I’d rather have her than Hilary as the first woman in the spot. Biden was just hard to watch and that position needs someone that will have to live with the consequences of the decisions in office. Will be curious to see who else puts their name in. 4 years ago he said he wouldn’t run again and he seems to be keeping that promise too. If they were clever, they’d put Biden as VP or as an advisor.

spujb ,

Harris 2024 babyyyyy

Kalothar ,

Senator Mark Kelly, he can do this

He flipped AZ to blue

He is an astronaut, all American, former servicemen

He can get red votes and blue alike

alquicksilver ,
@alquicksilver@lemmy.world avatar

Hmm…not bad. Not amazing name recognition, but that could be remedied.

Having Gabby campaign for/with him, especially after the DJT assassination attempt, could be beneficial, too. (Or could look like a disgusting political plot, but that’s really all our politics.)

alienzx ,

Isn’t senator Kelly the one that created the mutant registration act?

xmunk ,

Yea, but who cares about those sub-human mutants.

ShepherdPie ,

Damn that would be a great pick. I’d like to see AOC but Kelly probably has more broad appeal with all the things you mentioned.

bdonvr ,

Actually that’s not a bad idea at all

Reverendender ,

This is…not a bad idea!

Death_Equity ,

Ok, he is probably the best name anybody has thrown out.

WoahWoah ,

Kelly or Mayor Pete seem like the best options.

Buttigieg and AOC ticket? That would be the youth candidacy. Kelly and Buttigieg or vice versa would be more centrist but probably be the most robust candidacy.

I hate to say it, but in this political climate and with the threat of Trump, the best shot is probably two young-ish white guys.

morphballganon , (edited )

https://i.postimg.cc/3J20n9kQ/prezposter.png

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/0140db66-9ee5-4364-9048-d5e9d5b35ec3.png

newsweek.com/gavin-newsom-chances-beating-donald-…

WoahWoah ,

Gavin is probably the least popular option of any names floated. I don’t know who likes him, apparently some people do, but it’s not anywhere near a majority of the country.

FlexibleToast ,

On top of that, you can add that there is no advantage to getting a candidate from California. This is why I never understood Harris as the VP pick. Ideally, you get someone from a swing state like Whitmer.

nl4real ,

This late in the game, it’s almost certainly Harris. Probably picks a swing state governor like Whitmer or Shapiro.

Bye ,

Literally any straight white man center-right democrat born after 1968 would wipe the floor with trump.

And before anyone jumps down my throat, that’s not what I want. I want president Cortez. But presidents are chosen by money and by about 10,000 generically stupid swing voters in Michigan and Pennsylvania.

FlexibleToast ,

Voters in Michigan that voted for Whitmer.

Bye ,

Fantastic point.

retrospectology , (edited )
@retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

Good. So long Genocide Joe.

Edit: To the neoliberals downvoting this, this is what your denial is supporting. Joe Biden is pro-genocide and so is anyone who supports him. There’s not even a practical reason to support him at this point, which is very telling to anyone still defending him.

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/9b17975a-b1ef-4332-9c39-5850cfaabe1e.jpeg

Fuck zionism. And fuck anyone who thinks Biden is a “good guy” or moral by any stretch of the word.

PythagreousTitties ,

You’re incredibly short sighted. Anyone from both parties is still going to insure Israel is an ally.

retrospectology ,
@retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

Israel is a client of the US, not vice versa. Turkey occupies the same geographic space. The propping up the Israel is an ideological policy by the right-wing, not a meaningful geopolitical one for our nation.

audiomodder ,

Technically true. The clients of Israel are US politicians through AIPAC.

Perfide ,

What is your point? Trump is even more gung-ho about supporting Israel than Biden was, and whoever replaces Biden will certainly take his stance on the issue. There is no pro-palestine candidate even in the conversation.

retrospectology ,
@retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

What is your point? Trump is even more gung-ho about supporting Israel than Biden was

No, I’m rejecting this notion outright. Nothing about what we see in Gaza indicates that Biden is any less “gung ho” about the slaughter. Israel is operating without limits. Basically everyone in the democratic party, whether they are pro-Israel or not, is still to the left of Biden on the issue. Even Harris pretty deliberately distanced herself from Biden on this because even she saw how bad this was going to be.

Biden is being forced to step down in no small part because his zionism has made him unelectable. The polls in Michigan that just came out were quite literally the straw that broke the camels back here. Whether Dems continue being pro-Israel or not, the lesson from the Biden presidency is still that voters have a hard limit.

keyez ,

And possibly hello convicted felon, rapist, racist, Putin/Orban boot licker, veteran hater, who has had everyone remotely competent who’s previously worked for him leave and say what a horrible person he is to the presidency elect. Or sorry does that not rhyme as well?

retrospectology ,
@retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

Biden was going to lose to Trump. So from both a moral and pragmatic perspective, it’s good he’s gone. You might be pro-bombing Palestinian children, you do you, but if you want a Dem president, this is the only way. It just so happens to also be a referendum on Biden’s zionism.

FlyingSquid ,
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Oh I’m sure you’ll be talking about “Genocide Kamala” and telling us not to vote for her soon enough.

retrospectology ,
@retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

She at the every least had the decency to distance herself from Joe’s fanaticism when he started giving his full-throated support for the genocide. She’s still culpable, but represents a step in the right direction, away from right-wing extremism.

keyez ,

I’m pro cease fire and don’t claim to know much on the topic, but neither side is doing the right thing from reports and what I’ve heard. This one moniker to show how bad Biden is is just so lazy and misinformed since nobody who will get elected on either side is going to do the right thing but please keep posting that on all Biden threads you seem to be an expert we can all learn from.

retrospectology ,
@retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

You’re not pro-ceasefire if you think this is a “bothsides” issue. Israel has all the power. You know how you can tell without being an “expert”? Just look at the skeletal, starved, mutilated bodies of the children in Gaza and compare it to what’s going on in Tel Aviv. Go look at the images from Gaza and try to tell me with a serious face it’s “bothsides”.

No. Joe is a genocide supporter, and so are those who make excuses for him.

ImADifferentBird ,
@ImADifferentBird@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Trump is Bibi’s bestie. There is absolutely no way on Earth he would do a damn thing to end the genocide. In fact, he’ll happily cheerlead it, without even the token hand-wringing we get from Biden.

Hell, I would say Biden was the better candidate from a pro-Ceasefire stance, since, at the very least, he is vulnerable to pressure from the left to push for a ceasefire. Trump is not.

Zaktor ,

Yes, and now we don’t have to choose between genocide hard and genocide light. Harris (or whoever) can come in with a generic pro-peace two-state message rather than defending the decision to send Israel big bombs for months. He’s off the ticket, you don’t need to argue that he’s bad but better than Trump anymore. The new candidate can just be not a genocide supporter.

retrospectology ,
@retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

Trump and Biden are both pro-genocide, yes, though Biden should be held accountable by democrat standards, not republican ones. It’s about the party principles in terms of those too, Biden had to pay a price for his fanaticism.

But I was talking about Israel and Palestine/Gaza.

ImADifferentBird ,
@ImADifferentBird@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

But I was talking about Israel and Palestine/Gaza.

Who did you think I was talking about when I said Trump was Bibi’s bestie?

For future reference, Bibi is Benjamin Netanyahu. And if you don’t know that, you should probably educate yourself a bit more before talking about Israel and Palestine/Gaza.

PythagreousTitties ,

Ohhhhh that’s what you were talking about about… We all missed that…

ShepherdPie ,

In what way is Biden vulnerable to pressure from the left? What are they going to impeach him? The party hasn’t listened to those of us on the left in decades.

keyez ,

I’m not making excuses for him but guess I see no betterment if repugs are in charge again, Ukraine situation will probably get worse as well, and I’m more worried about what more will happen with a project 2025 riddled future and stripping away of regulations and further ignoring of climate change and action. I am well aware of what’s going on in Gaza and it needs to stop, but I know which devil will be a major net worse for the future of humanity and I’m going to vote against that future which is a blue vote.

retrospectology ,
@retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

I’m not making excuses for him but guess I see no betterment if repugs are in charge again

No one wants the republicans in control. But voters committing to the game of chicken that Biden himself started with his own constituency was necessary to get him to step down. Like with a bully, if you never stand up for yourself they just keep abusing you again and again. That’s neoliberal democrats to their base – they’re bullies to their own voters.

The threat to their power needed to be credible, people needed to show that they were ready to just let them take us over the cliff if that’s where the Democratic establishment was going to take us, and it worked.

Biden is not a good human being. He’s a narcissist and a child killer. There’s no reason to show him any respect or deference now that he’s stepped aside. In fact people should continue to loudly proclaim the genocide as his legacy, to make it clear to the party leadership that supporting genocide is an electoral liability, not something you can force down people’s throats.

ShepherdPie ,

All this is true and Biden was still projected to lose to him, which says a lot about who the party leaders are grooming for the office. You should direct your anger at them not the people who’re having these terrible candidates foisted upon us. Imagine if they’d actually picked a likeable candidate back in 2016 and relegated Trump to the simple laughing stock that he is.

keyez ,

I was volunteering and telling everyone I knew to vote Bernie in 2016 for the primary but the DNC fucked everyone by just casting him aside. Because of that I didn’t vote in 2016 and multiple things in my life got demonstrably worse right in front of my eyes and I’m not making that mistake again.

VanillaBean ,

Don’t forget insurrectionist treasonous mutherfucker

VanillaBean ,

Lmao wait until Trump gives Netanyahu the green light to erase Palestine. Got what you wanted I guess. Hope you are prepared to do some more protesting, oh wait he will probably throw you lot in jail or deport for protesting unlike Biden. Reap what you sow.

retrospectology ,
@retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

Netanyahu already got the greenlight. Anyone who’s been paying attention to what’s happening in Gaza would know that.

There is no difference between Trump and Biden when it comes to their support of genocide. Biden is not more “moderate”, he’s fully onboard and has provided everything Netanyahu needs to continue his war crimes. The difference is Biden is a democrat, which means that he needs to be held to democrat standards, not republican ones. If he’s not then the party is functionally the same as the GOP and pretending there’s a difference is pointless.

SpaceCowboy ,
@SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

You have no idea what genocide actually is.

What you’re seeing is the results of a war.

A few months ago Kamala Harris met with the families of those that are still being held hostage by Hamas. So has Joe Biden. They might understand what’s happening a little better than someone that spends their free time looking at photos of mutilated children on the internet.

There is some hope that now that Biden isn’t seeking re-election he can do more to make a deal happen to get the hostages released which will end the current iteration of this conflict. So you’ll have to find another place to find photos of mutilated children that you can pretend to be angry about.

gmtom ,

I remember being young and naive and thinking everything in the world was simple, easy and black and white.

One day you will grow up and see how foolish shortsighted you are being.

retrospectology ,
@retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

And now you’re old, condescending and accepting of genocide. Hope I’m never like you.

MaXimus421 ,
@MaXimus421@lemmy.world avatar

You must realize that just like Reddit, this sub is far left leaning. It’s pointless to post anything that goes against the echo chamber.

retrospectology ,
@retrospectology@lemmy.world avatar

The left is not in support of Israel. While it’s true that there isn’t much of a MAGA/nazi element on Lemmy like on Reddit, there is a fairly large neoliberal demographic. As well as a growing contingency of Israeli, Russian, and Chinese bots as those groups realize that Lemmy is growing as reddit continues to wane.

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