Two weeks before the crash, she allegedly threatened to crash her vehicle when she was driving with Russo because she was upset over a disagreement they had. Russo called his mother and asked to be picked up, and a friend ended up retrieving him. In a phone call with Russo, the friend allegedly overheard Shirilla say, “I will crash this car right now,” prosecutors said in court documents.
This isn’t a drunk driver, or a thrillseeker, this is someone with murderous intent.
There are cases of mutual murderer/suicide pacts where there’s shared responsibility and actions taken by each party but that wouldn’t have been possible when she was the only one in control of the car. Even if the boyfriend was suicidal, and there’s no reason to think he was from this article, the other passenger clearly wasn’t. IANAL either but I think that’s what the above comment was trying to get at.
Have suicidal ideation is in no way, shape or form the same as being the perpetrator of a murder-suicide. Neither is being suicidal a lead-in to becoming a murderer.
No there may be a small chance of collateral damage, such as this case. But suicidal thinking does not make you think of killing others. You’re clearly lucky enough to have never had suicidal ideation, but it never comes near the kind of thoughts that want to kill others
As such, it is clear that suicides tend to have high levels of aggressive–destructive impulsive behaviours, generally referred to as impulsive–aggressive behaviours. These have been operationally defined in suicide studies as a tendency to react with animosity or overt hostility without consideration to possible consequences, when piqued or under stress.
Did you read anything else in that paper…? The words around that statement? Even the abstract?
Or did you google what you wanted to see and post the result, because that paper is not about people harming others whilst attempting suicide. It is barely tangentially about that.
(it’s about the impact of aggressive-impulsive tendencies on the suicide…r themselves)
They went to the store, sober, and bought a handle of vodka (1.75 liters) consumed the vast majority, and drove around.
He wanted to die in a head on collision. Selfish fuck.
I don’t have a problem with people having the freedom to decide enough is enough, but don’t harm others in the process, at least more so than the death would cause. Especially innocent unrelated people.
Honestly, it’s very very similar. AFAICT she was trying to punish him. It has all the hallmarks of an abusive relationship. And an all too common outcome.
I recently read that a 70mph accident is considered “unsurvivable.” Regrettably I don’t recall the source. Because people survive accidents that happen on 70mph speed limit highways all the time, I assume two things. 1. That the accident has to happen AT 70mph. And that 2, most people are able to slow down or perhaps the vehicle hits something first, glancing blow, that sort of thing, which brings the speed down, making it more survivable. So yeah, I think that makes 100mph suicide/murder.
crash testing is done between 35 and 40 mph. At those speeds the car is usually undrivable after the test. Over that speed you risk damage to very expensive test equipment.
In most US jurisdictions if you're "just" trying to commit a felony, like purposely crashing your car at 100+ MPH (160+ KPH) to cause grievous bodily harm to others, and someone dies as a result that's automatically elevated to murder.
It’ll depend on the jurisdiction. But ‘intent’ for murder does not mean “pre-planned”. Heat of the moment intention to do serious harm is enough for a murder conviction in the UK (and, I believe, the US).
In this case, the prosecution accused her of pre-planning as well as intent, and the jury agreed with one or both arguments.
Russo, the judge, delivered a scalding description of the case before she read out the verdict, saying Shirilla had a “mission” she executed with “precision” that fateful day — and “the mission was death.”
“The [crash] video clearly shows the purpose and intent of the defendant. She chose a course of death and destruction that day,” Russo said.
“She morphs from a responsible driver to literal hell on wheels as she makes her way down the street,” Russo said, saying Shirilla made a calculated decision to drive that morning, when not many people would be around, on an obscure route she did not routinely take.
Prosecutor Michael O’Malley told NBC affiliate WKYC of Cleveland that the crash video was damning, saying, “The intent was obvious upon seeing that video that there was only one goal.”
She murdered two people with the intent to at least cause significant harm. That’s enough on the state she was in, thank God. She deserves life in prison.
Contrary to popular belief, people suffering from mental health issues are more likely to be the victim than perpetrator of violent crimes, more than their healthy counterpart. www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/…/full
I agree 100 percent this is a child with some kind of inability to understand the consequences of her actions she should be placed in a care facility until she demonstrates the ability to make proper decision making ability
Getting arrested, even wrongfully, is going to fuck a lot of peoples' lives up as much or more than getting fired. I have a special needs child, and although I'm not a single parent, cops pick me up and put me in jail wrongfully for a day or two, the details of my circumstances are such that's going to cause substantial trauma for both my child and my wife. In my case my job would be safe, but for a great many people it would not.
I'd take being fired over being arrested all day every day and twice on Sunday.
I don't mean to suggest she didn't have a case, only to suggest that payouts for wrongful police action need to be much higher. Aside from the arrest itself, wrongful arrests often include damages to the victim's body or property, possibly their dog getting shot, etc etc.
I don’t mean to suggest she didn’t have a case, only to suggest that payouts for wrongful police action need to be much higher. Aside from the arrest itself, wrongful arrests often include damages to the victim’s body or property, possibly their dog getting shot, etc etc.
Not even talking about the fact, that these guys now have newspaper articles with both of them in handcuffs, clearly showing their face and names that will come up every time a potential new employer googles their names.
Totally agree with you, wrongful arrest is much more problematic than being wrongfully fired.
Sure, but how do they arrive at $28.3 mio damages? You usually don’t get that much in damages if the person in question has been killed. I’m pretty sure, being wrongfully fired doesn’t cause as much damage as >16x of the average lifetime earnings of a person.
A lot of the time these things include fines to teach them a lesson. Otherwise corporations would do this way more.
Which is a useless tactic for cops since it's taxpayers who pay anyhow. Still think settlements should be higher though. When half your city budget becomes paying for police settlements maybe then police reform will have a wider appeal.
What does fining corpos have to do with cops? These are 2 separate discussions.
Well, time to see how deep kbin will let me nest quotes.
Race or not, how does a wrongful termination cause $28.3mio in damages?
At the same time, the two men who were arrested for existing and for being black received a whopping $1 each.
A lot of the time these things include fines to teach them a lesson. Otherwise corporations would do this way more.
Which is a useless tactic for cops since it's taxpayers who pay anyhow. Still think settlements should be higher though.
When half your city budget becomes paying for police settlements maybe then police reform will have a wider appeal.
What does fining corpos have to do with cops? These are 2 separate discussions.
Conversations wander.
In this case, someone asked, (paraphrasing) "How does it make sense to get millions for a race related firing and a dollar for race related wrongful arrest" <-- Note here that arrests are generally done by cops.
Then someone else said, (paraphrasing) "Well, they do these big settlements to teach companies a lesson."
Then I said, (paraphrasing) "Would be great if they could do that when cops wreck people's lives, but then it would only be taxpayers footing the bill anyhow."
Then you said, (paraphrasing) "Why are you changing the topic?"
Then I summarized, just now, to explain how I'm doing no such thing.
I realize I just restated what was already there, but -- it was already there when you asked, so....
It did not answer my question. What does cops have to do in regards to the topic at hand, which is about dining corpos. Rewording the comment chain does not answer that question.
Where? Unless I missed a comment, the OC was about taxpayers paying for cops settlements in general when the topic at hand was about how corporations are fined. And I say again, those are 2 separate discussions.
I literally quoted and paraphrased every single comment that led to the comparison, every single one of which are still visible, and were visible when you asked. If I go back and link them for you will it help?
Ok, but why does the person who got fired get the difference?
At least over here, if you have something like this, the person who got fired would get adequate damages rewarded (roughly the amount of money they lost due to being fired wrongfully) while the state would sue the company for a punitory fine.
Good question! I’m not sure. Maybe we are worried that punitive damage fines would incentivize the government to start suing businesses. Just a guess though.
Disclaimer that I have not followed this case and I’m not a lawyer.
In the US civil cases can have both compensatory and punitive damages. Compensatory is meant to “right the wrong” where you get reimbursed for financial losses, lost time, things you had to pay for as a result of the incident, etc. Punitive is meant to punish the offender if the case finds they acted with some negligence, and ultimately get them and others to change their behavior.
Take the infamous McDonald’s coffee case. The woman who was injured originally only asked for McDonald’s to pay for her medical treatment. She required skin grafts. The jury found that McDonald’s knowing let this circumstance exist where someone was going to get a serious injury and added on punitive damages. Which the judge cut back.
An important caveat is that she was not the first person seriously injured by the temperatures they were keeping the coffee at.
McD decided the money they were saving on free coffee refills was more important than injuring their customers, which is why the punitive damages were awarded.
The lady who got the money was just the one a judge actually paid attention to.
Somewhat paid attention. The jury awarded two days of coffee revenue. The judge cut it to 3x the compensatory damages, about a half day of coffee revenue. I don’t recall if there was a law on the books about that. Some states have “tort reform” laws that limit punitive damages.
As an European, it’s kinda strange to me that the punitory damages are awarded to the person in question, for two reasons.
Punitory damages aren’t meant to protect that one person (it’s highly unlikely that Starbucks is going to wrongfully fire the same woman a second time) but instead they are meant to protect society
Punitory lawsuits should not depend on the legal budget of one individual
The way it works over here is like this:
There would be two lawsuits:
The regular civil lawsuit between the wronged person and the company. The result will be compensatory measures awarded to the wronged person.
The chamber of labour will run a separate lawsuit regarding law violations/structural issues of the company. The result will be a change in the company and punitory measures. If these include fees, they are awarded to the government.
I happen to be one of those Americans that think despite their many flaws, the authors of the Constitution had some fundamentally good ideas. And we used the Constitution as intended to expand individual rights after the Civil War with the 14th Amendment. Shamefully we never got around to the Equal Rights Amendment to include women.
What most Americans don’t realize is that the vast majority of what we consider foundational principles are not actually in the Constitution but are instead case law, and how recent much of that is. It wasn’t until 15 years after the Civil War that there was a Supreme Court case which established the idea that corporations are persons under the law and deserving of many of the rights granted under the Constitution using (or mis-using in my opinion) that same 14th Amendment.
Why does that matter? Because it gave corporations an “equal” seat at the table when it comes to disputes. The problem, as you point out, is that our civil dispute resolution system DOES depend on the resources of the “person” and corporations will ALWAYS have more resources. Lots and lots of cases have given corporations more rights and the result is the corportacracy we have now. In other words we went fundamentally the wrong direction diluting the power of the individual. And because corporations have such disproportionate influence on the laws and administrative procedures, we diluted the power of government to represent the people. This has been going on for ~120 years but it kicked into high gear in the 80s (Reagan era).
I’m glad that you guys are still somewhat rational about this, but unfortunately the anti-democratic trend in the US is replicating in the rest of the world. I worry that future histories will compare the rise of this garbage in the US to the start of fascism in Italy in the 1930s.
Sorry, went off on a tangent deep in the comments, but I spend too much time thinking and worrying.
From the patterns I see in the world, social structures (governments, organisations, …) are mostly on a downward trend. People in power are mostly concerned with keeping and extending their power, to the detriment of the people they are ruling.
Until it goes to far and there is a crisis so massive, that the people who are in power get swapped out and replaced by a completely different set of people. Then they spend a few years improving the situation until business as usual sets in and the downward trend sets in again.
You can see that e.g. in the founding of America, the time after the US civil war, the time after WW2 in most of Europe and in many other instances. Newly formed countries often take that chance to improve their constitution and government principles.
The thing is, contrary to e.g. Europe, the USA hasn’t had a reset like this in a very long time. Hence, corruption is handled almost as if the constitution prescribed it. Compare e.g. how funding for the election campaign of presidential candidates is handled.
In my country, candidates are severely limited in how much they can totally spend on the campaign. The current limit is at €7mio. They have to declare all donations to parties, which are also limited.
In the USA, on the other hand, there is hardly a point trying to become a candidate if you don’t have a few billionaires backing you.
Imagine being so blind, so stupid, to not only be a republican, but further be compelled to commit blatant crimes for trump, without regard to evidence.
Ads for brands including Adobe, Gilead Sciences, the University of Maryland’s football team, New York University Langone Hospital and NCTA-The Internet and Television Association were run alongside tweets from the account that had garnered hundreds of thousands of views, CNN observed.
Spokespeople for NCTA and pharmaceutical company Gilead said that they immediately paused their ad spending on X after CNN flagged their ads on the pro-Nazi account.
Title mentions Biden, the sitting president, but the picture has Bush. Who sat 2 terms ago. The article also starts off with Carters. I miss less dramatic reporting
She was a raving kook who talked smack on someone’s voicemail, but the next one would follow up their words with actions (and we don’t want that)… The patient cat can’t catch all the mice, but he can catch some and take their fury out on it. The others with soon get the message quite clearly at that point
she was “charged four times in the past year” over similar allegations and that she was out on bond on Aug. 5
This person needs a serious mental evaluation. Not to mention she willfully threw away her freedom to do this stunt. Serious or not she is messed up in the head, like most maga trumpers.
Fucking hell that is horrible. And of course she’s the only one to survive. 100mph into a brick building has probably left her pretty physically fucked up and in constant pain. Hope she enjoys feeling that way in prison for the rest of her life.
She’ll spend 8 months in prison and appeal for a reduced sentence and get out on “good behavior” before she’s even served a quarter of her term. Don’t you know how the American legal system works?
The bullshit sentences are the ones we mainly hear about, and many people have a bit of a confirmation bias because of it. But, you don't have to look further than your own community to see that slaps on the wrist are not typical.
US citizens are the most incarcerated people on Earth, by an uncomfortable margin.
Murder with a car is often toned down to, “vehicular manslaughter”. It’s often times charged as a misdemeanor. I agree with you that it should always be a felony because it’s murder, but that’s not how the courts treat it.
Phillips, 52, claimed in her lawsuit that “her race was a determinative factor” in Starbucks’ decision to fire her in the wake of a 2018 racial firestorm.
In April 2018, two Black men – Donte Robinson and Rashon Nelson – were arrested while waiting for a business meeting after an employee called 911 and accused the men of trespassing after they refused to make a purchase or leave the store. The arrests sparked nationwide protests and prompted Starbucks to close some of its stores for a day for racial bias training.
Less than a month after the arrests, Phillips was notified of her termination, despite claiming that she wasn’t at the store that day and was not involved in the arrests in any way.
It pretty obviously was, which is why the case was so obviously a slam dunk. Basically, she stood up for the employee who called the police (essentially Starbucks' policy at the time when people wouldn't leave the establishment after being asked first), and got fired in turn as Starbucks was trying to clean house on the whole thing and not get called racist. She definitely had a case.
Quotes from the voice mail she left. (what a fucking idiot to give a voice recording of this)
"You are in our sights, we want to kill you,"
"If Trump doesn't get elected in 2024, we are coming to kill you, so tread lightly, b---h. ... You will be targeted personally, publicly, your family, all of it."
I didn’t say it shouldn’t be taken seriously. There’s a difference between saying someone is not being serious and saying they shouldn’t be taken seriously.
Also worth noting… even if we knew for a fact she had no serious intend to carry out her threat - like if there was a recording before and after she hung up the phone laughing about this “prank” - threats on the lives of government officials are crimes. It can influence their behavior. There is no situation where it’s not serious, just like standing up on a plane and yelling “I have a bomb!” is a crime and serious whether a joke or not.
I’m sick of slightly-not-threats in general. I’m always amazed at people for listening to a few interactions between police and crooks and figuring out exactly what they can say and get away with while leaving the victim with no uncertainty that they’ll be targeted. It seems like a majority of the population will happily scream at someone over something small. It’s no surprise that we are seeing escalations into real death threats, regardless of intent or seriousness.
This whole fucking handbasket seems to be in flames already.
So, mixed signal time, while not actually advocating for rape, it is usually not about sexual attraction, but more about assertion of power and intimidation.
So, in the hyperbolically sarcastic “literal” sense of fuck them, their looks are irrelevant.
People are playing by Reddit/echo chamber rules here. Anything that goes even slightly against the grain is jumped on and tried to silence.
FTR: I heard your intent and don’t think you said anything even remotely wrong. This is a human being who needs to be held accountable, but can also at the same time still require our help, even if it’s just simple human empathy.
Edit: but to answer your question… 5 more times should do it. :)
Serious or not, the target won’t know and the harm done by them is real either way. The criminal needs to be locked up and hopefully rehabilitated. If the latter isn’t possible, at least she won’t be able to follow through on the threats from a jail cell.
She's also been charged with the same time three other times just this year; and there's no mention of the number of times she just got a warning for pulling this stuff. In fact, she was out on bail for similar messages when she did this. This is not a person who is able to handle her emotions who is slowly getting driven over the edge by reich-wing media. She may not head to New York or DC to kill a judge as but she is absolutely capable of shooting a bunch of black people at Walmart or driving through a group of Hispanic workers.
Who makes threats over voicemail? How stupid is that to use your voice and phone number as obvious evidence to police if you were actually planning to do it? Imagine posting to Twitter about going to rob a specific bank in 2 days with your personal Twitter account, then posting a selfie with a name tag and facemask and gun in front of your actual house, hashtagging it #ThisIsAStickUp so more people see it. Anyone who makes semi public threats with identifiable information is either a complete moron and shouldn’t be taken as able to be dangerous in any capacity or was never really intending to do anything in the first place and is all bark and no bite. Not serious. Probably just planning to break stuff and yell real loud like on January 6. These people thrive off of intimidation. I doubt anyone would be that completely idiotic to document a murder spree.
I’m wondering how, in today’s age, a manhunt could take up to three years. Either he’s great at flying under the radar or the hunters aren’t very tenacious.
It’s the dichotomy of the world we live in and I struggle to fully comprehend.
We are tracked, recorded monitored constantly, yet dickheads like this take 3 years to catch… I don’t get it. It’s not like he was living alone in the woods.
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