Idk about getting struck down, but it seems like laws inside your jurisdiction are going to stand in a way laws outside don’t really. Where it gets tricky is going to be swaths of the country where certain people can’t go for fear of being arrested. Feels like a loosening of federalism to me and more like different countries in a way.
No, noooo. They have uhh… they have fairies come in and pluck only the ripest fruit at very livable wages… please don’t look in to this too closely. Definitely don’t go in to the shanty village and start asking questions.
Math equation says, plant eating requires less land, which means fewer workers exploited. Also I’m pretty sure plant farmers don’t have a 400% turnover rate. It’s almost like even if the math were equal, which it isn’t, killing animals all day is bad for your mental health.
I love veganism because it points out how hypocritical and cognitively dissonant people are. Just another fine example of the average 21st century homo sapien being an idiot while thinking they’re smart.
Math equation says, plant eating requires less land, which means fewer workers exploited
that doesn’t follow
edit: this user never constructed a cogent argument, but, in the end, devolved into a hypocritcal spluttering rant making unfounded accusations, then announced they were blocking me. just in case you thought they could deal with skepticism.
Let me be way way more specific for you than should be necessary. It takes more plants to feed animals than us to feed plants ourselves directly. E.g., a culture of animal product consumption requires more land to be cultivated and maintained to feed those animals before we can even feed the animals to us. This requires more workers to be exploited in the ‘consumption’ industry.
If you are arguing that ‘well those workers will just be exploited in another business,’ you could make that argument about any change in the workforce where labor requirements are reduced. It’s not relevant if we are focusing strictly on the food system and the amount of workers required within it. If we continue this more broadly though, it’s still not necessarily true if we don’t assume a political/socioeconomic system that puts them in that position. So in a hypothetical far far future, if we for some reason still need human labor to work fields but have outsourced enough jobs to robotics elsewhere so as to have UBI for many citizens without work, it would still require less workers to focus on a plant based diet than a meat eating diet. Frankly, by reducing the amount of workers required in any instance, you inch ever closer to UBI. So if you want to inch closer to a society that doesn’t exploit workers generally, even from that point of view, The Vegans are still approaching this closer than meat eaters.
a lot of what is fed to animals is the waste from crops that go to humans first. the same land growing food for animals is the same land growing food for people.
My dude you are either being misled or are attempting to mislead. Yes some inedible material from crops we eat is used and in some countries like the US they even feed garbage to pigs.
If you are taking the ‘nothing gets wasted approach’ it absolutely does, Americans waste 40% of all their food availability for example.
But to the point they absolutely are clearcutting rainforests and other lands specifically to increase feed production for animals. They absolutely feed a shitload of human edible material to animals grown specifically for animals. I’m too lazy to reiterate statistics to a single person who will see it so for the love of God please research this and do not send me any regenerative animal farming bullshit that does not scale.
Are they raised entirely on grazing though? Are you in hypothetical land where people eat 1% of the total meat they currently do eating only animals that exclusively graze?
A) Congratulations, you account for almost no one on Earth and haven’t accounted for the totality of it in determining how people should/can live in regards to the environment. Your worldview is extremely biased in determining appropriate models if you think people can/do eat animals that exclusively graze.
B) Are you not also still neglecting to consider the methane release of those grazing animals?
C) even if the environmental factor were not real, which it is, you’d still be facilitating intentional animal murder. An already disagreeable matter.
Reminder that you started with ‘I dont see how less workers would be exploited.’ And we’ve arrived here. Are you by chance anti-vegan or have any personal financial investment in animal agriculture? The degree to which you are interested in justifying environmental damage and animal murder on the grounds of your local meat market being isolated from reality and that almost no on has or can have access to seems entirely lacking a basis for this level of argumentation and I’m growing tired of arguing with someone who cannot grasp this.
you’re attitude is shitty. you can’t accept that you made a hyperbolic claim and go off on rants that cross the line into hostility to someone who had the temerity to disbelieve your wild claim. get help.
you started with ‘I dont see how less workers would be exploited.’
and you still haven’t made a compelling case, but you have shown that it’s not even a real concern for you, given that you are actually interested in pushing an ideology and are grasping at straws to support it.
I should have just went to your profile right away and saved the trouble lol
The ideology doesn’t detract from the obvious. You’re ignoring the laws of thermodynamics for non-grazing animals because in your head there is some fictional world where there is exclusive grazing animals that everyone exclusively eats where reality puts that at maybe 0.0001% of real human diets. Your intentions are dubious at best, and I grow tired of you. If you really wanted to have a productive conversation, you could have explained what about the methodology of the UN’s FAO paper on land use you disagreed with, but I guess you can just reference some other paper and go ‘well it’s allegedly at least in my brain like this other one I read so therefore all goes in the trash.’ I am not a data/environmental scientist so if you want to debate bro about the particulars of those papers or their methodology seek out people who may or may not be more educated than you, personally I think they’ll have an even harder time taking you seriously.
You can probably even get a direct email out to those who wrote the papers you disagree with. They might laugh a little, but they may actually respond. Who knows. But I’m good dawg, I’ll keep doing what is ethically sound for living conscious beings and is recommended by scientific consensus as good for the environment/climate, and you just keep on saying whatever the hell all these comments were to other people who probably also don’t want the most nested back and forth dialogue possible that goes nowhere. Maybe you’re not ‘anti-vegan’ but to engage with this content as frequently as you do, you clearly have a motive - and unlike you, Vegans will be upfront and honest about theirs. You should stop hiding your intent/background. But again, I’m good dawg. I’m interested in dialogue that can actually change people’s minds to lead a more compassionate and sustainable life and it’s clear you’ll not change your ways and no one is reading this so it will not influence others either. You will continue paying other people to kill animals irrespective of any evidence I provide and hilariously claim it’s not evidence. No interest in interacting in future, giving you the solid block. Have a nice day.
If you really wanted to have a productive conversation, you could have explained what about the methodology of the UN’s FAO paper on land use you disagreed with
i spend my time how i like, and you don’t get to dictate how i communicate.
I’ll keep doing what is ethically sound for living conscious beings and is recommended by scientific consensus as good for the environment/climate, and you just keep on saying whatever the hell all these comments were to other people who probably also don’t want the most nested back and forth dialogue possible that goes nowhere.
implying your interlocutor is unethical for doubting your unproven claim is the height of intellectual dishonesty.
this person is a grifter who travels to and fro in an RV, collecting donations, as one does, but she claims to be the literal Queen of Canada. Qanon Anonymous is my main source, but I can’t find a good link that isn’t patreon-walled. But it’s a cool podcast.
The whole thing is absurd and overly represents rural areas and Republicans. We already have a huge problem with the “2 senators per state” thing and the House representing Republicans far too much in relation to their numbers.
I’m 100% okay with the 2 senators per state thing. That’s a feature, not a bug. Even though cities are on the right side of history right now, I don’t want to completely silence the rural vote forever.
However, arbitrarily limiting the number of House reps is absolutely absurd and counter to the purpose of the House. That is a bug.
Well, then, maybe we should start considering splitting up some states and joining others together then. A place like California is more future-minded and it’s where a great deal of the people are, as well as much of our economy. Also, it’s where a lot of our food is grown. And it gets 2 Senators.
The 2 Dakotas have more than that, and what do they really represent for the future of America and the world? More fracking?
Maybe states with really large masses and hardly anyone in them are combined. Idaho, Montana and Wyoming - one state. North Dakota, South Dakota and Nebraska, another.
That’s why we are supposed to have House members representative of pure population, and not land. Senate gives more power to rural areas, House gives more power to urban areas. It’s supposed to even out. Checks and balances.
It’s crazy how many people in this thread don’t seem to know the absolute basics of how their own government is structured and why.
The only reason the Senate is such a problem right now, is because the House of Representatives needs to be properly reapportioned so it’s actually representative.
To be honest bud, your point of view is very frustrating in the times we live, but it is an extremely sound argument and I begrudgingly can get behind it.
It feels like a compromise from a period of time that is no longer relevant to these times when we are trying to push this country into the future. I don’t want rural regions to have more of a voice, FFS. Look at what it is doing to this country. Having fewer people have an equal say with the majority of the people is also not great, the majority should win out. Why the fuck should tracts of land be voting?
We should never completely silence the voice of a group of people for all time, even if right now they’re pushing some heinous shit.
Part of the reason for the phenomenon of Trump was the failure of politicians to care about the legitimate problems that rural voters have.
In any case, if the House and Electoral College functioned like they should, the majority would win a lot more often. Don’t focus on the Senate, focus on the two institutions that weren’t designed to give rural people an outsized choice but have been manipulated to do so.
completely silence the voice of a group of people for all time
I don’t think anything proposed here by anyone would do that? What is being proposed is to stop prioritizing the votes of people occupying vast tracts of land over the majority. To have a vote cast by someone in the hinterlands equal someone’s vote in more populous parts of the country is putting them on par with everyone else. I’m not so sure what is so magical about someone living in a remote area that their interests should not align with everyone else’s.
I understand the history of compromising with states that had less (free) people because of slave states; I’m saying it’s no longer relevant in modern society. It turns out rural areas are usually better represented by Democratic policies in any case. Ironically.
But but but why should cities get to determine everything? Don’t you know that not only does land vote, everyone in a patch of land votes the same? So, why bother giving everyone in a city a vote, you know?
Also, be sure to let the vice president cancel the whole thing if they don’t like the results.
We should just abolish the Senate. With the current formulation of the US government there’s no reason why a State should have extra power like that. Let the people make the rules. Expand the House, abolish the Senate, and remove the electoral college. And since we’re wishing for things that will never happen anyway, go ahead and use some kind of proportional vote (ranked choice, star, whatever, just literally anything but FPTP).
21 And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.
22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father’s nakedness.
24 And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
Uh oh! Ham and woke Noah better not be in any elementary schools teaching kids about drunk gay incestuous nudity.
4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.”
2 Samuel 1:26
(David) I grieve for you, Jonathan my brother; you were very dear to me. Your love for me was wonderful, more wonderful than that of women.
They didn’t though. They came alarmingly close to overturning a performative ceremony that has no actual bearing on the election. Do you really think Trump would have become president if they had succeeded in stopping the count? It had already been counted, just not officially. That’s how stupid these people are.
Saddam Hussein seized power by essentially doing this. If they’d gone in, captured Congress and executed anyone who disagreed that’s pretty much game over. I’m convinced the only reason we’re not in a full civil war today is that Trump was too lazy to lead the march over to the Capitol.
The votes were already counted. No number of congresspeople executed would change the results of the election. It would just put Trump in far, far, far more legal jeopardy than he’s in now and he’s in a lot.
What precise actions do you think would be taken if a sitting president successfully murders the president elect and the opposition party, and for that matter any judges who disagree with him.
I’d be interested in hearing how you think that plays out in reality opposed to this “just world” you seem to imagine yourself living in.
Maybe they can all go to an instacart model or something like Amazons auto checkout model. Or just have actual cashiers. Maybe everything is in vending machines. Idk, but the current experience in retail mostly is horrible and I want to avoid it if at all possible.
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