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lowleveldata , in Nintendo doing the smarting

Open source projects do not grow by themselves. It requires serious effort from dedicated developers to develop and maintain applications as complicated as an emulator. Yuzu’s developers are banned from doing so and I don’t see how this incident could help bringing more developers.

tsugu OP ,
@tsugu@slrpnk.net avatar

I’m sure there will be developers capable enough to keep it working on new operating systems. Games that worked with it until now will keep on working, and that’s what matters to most people anyways. No need for major changes to the codebase.

lowleveldata ,

to keep it working on new operating systems

That’s really easier said than done

unfnknblvbl ,

Yeah, of all the forks and mirrors I’ve checked out, none of them even have the Android builds. Obviously I’ve not checked them all, but still…

franklin ,
@franklin@lemmy.world avatar

I truly admire the optimism but I think it’s also important to understand the hard work and dedication that the Yuzu developers put in.

You’re correct that someone probably will fork it and development will continue but it is not simple and it requires a very specialized skill set.

I just think it’s important to never take for granted the people who take time out of their lives to give the community something so wonderful.

JDubbleu ,

I don’t think it’s diminishing the work of the Yuzu devs, but more so a strong belief in the capabilities of the open source community. They worked their asses off and are extremely talented, and I’m sure there are others who will hop in and carry the torch.

I’m also curious if there’s a programmatic way to circumvent the argument Nintendo made about bypassing DMCA by separating the emulator from the code that utilizes the keys such that you can use tool A to bypass DMCA, and tool B (Yuzu with game decryption removed) to run the circumvented game. In this case tool A already exists, and tool B could be a fork of Yuzu.

Halosheep ,

This is similar to how Tachiyomi forks can still exist. Even though tachiyomi never had a real case go to court, they’ve separated the extensions library from the reader so nothing comes “preloaded” with any potential copywrite infringing parts.

vox ,
@vox@sopuli.xyz avatar

this doesn’t apply to hundreds of their contributors tho right

Trarmp ,

What if I told you that throwing more developers at a problem != that problem getting solved faster?

vox ,
@vox@sopuli.xyz avatar

there are hundreds of open issues on ryujinx.
so there are hundreds of problems with zero developers to solve them.

cows_are_underrated ,

What do you mean with they are banned? Who’s gonna stop them from contributing to one of the many Yuzu forks? What are they gonna do about it?

Hate ,

Nintendo would stop them. If yuzu devs want to go to court, they can continue development.

Yuzu devs could do it anonymously, but that’s gl on not doxxing yourself, at risk of lawsuit.

lowleveldata ,

A permanent injunction is entered against Defendant enjoining it and its members, agents, servants, employees, independent contractors, successors, assigns, and all those acting in privity or under its control from:

a. Offering to the public, providing, marketing, advertising, promoting, selling, testing, hosting, cloning, distributing, or otherwise trafficking in Yuzu or any source code or features of Yuzu

IANAL but that sounds like the court is banning those developers from working on Yuzu. I mean, you can still try to work on project that is 90% Yuzu but with another name but I feel like your lawyer would advise against that.

grue ,

Who’s gonna stop them from contributing to one of the many Yuzu forks? What are they gonna do about it?

The answers are “the court system” and “have the police arrest them for defying a court order” respectively.

explodicle ,

Can’t they just create pseudonyms?

herrvogel ,

Okay then what? Unless the devs try real hard to stay hidden, Nintendo’s lawyers will do a little bit of digging, they will find out who those pseudonyms are, and sue again. And this time the devs will be extremely lucky if they can get away with just paying out 2.4m because the law generally does not appreciate it very much when you try to ignore and avoid its previous rulings. A console emulator is absolutely not worth the potentially devastating legal consequences.

Katana314 ,

I mean, I guess it can happen through private web communities of course. It would just enter the region of game cracks.

Also marginally possible someone reverse engineers, and puts up something unrecognizable compared to the original.

ben_dover ,

it’s most likely part of the cease and desist order

SturgiesYrFase , in Why would socialism do this?
@SturgiesYrFase@lemmy.ml avatar

I mean obviously if socialism didn’t want a US backed coup they wouldn’t dress like that…

anarchoilluminati ,
@anarchoilluminati@hexbear.net avatar

Wearing all that red just really gets the US going into full bloodlust.

gibzag , in The uBlock Origin people do not accept donations
FIST_FILLET ,

damn, i fully thought it would be for legal reasons. this is just admirable and honest

ipkpjersi ,

One of the projects I’m a maintainer of does the same thing. I am very strongly against donations because it can create an unnecessary burden on staff and an expectation by players that we don’t want to have happen.

gravitas_deficiency , in When you are privileged equality looks like a downgrade.

I’ll tell you what’s at the bottom of it. If you can convince the lowest white man he’s better than the best colored man, he won’t notice you’re picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he’ll empty his pockets for you.

-Lyndon B. Johnson, 36th President of the United States

Mango , in Well then..

I am the guy who started this meme! Praise me!

le_throosh OP ,

🛐🛐🛐

Frozzie ,
@Frozzie@lemmy.world avatar

You are a genius 🙏

Viking_Hippie ,
Alteon ,

There you go! Note added. You shall be remembered henceforth.

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/4fdc7c34-4468-4844-805d-848848b8ef95.png

Mango ,

Aww yeah! I’m mostly just stoked that I started a thing. 😁

fastandcurious , in Why is this so difficult?
@fastandcurious@lemmy.world avatar
RealFknNito ,
@RealFknNito@lemmy.world avatar

MUCH Better

RememberTheApollo_ ,

Yes. As part of America, fuck this apartheid we’re funding.

Muyal ,
@Muyal@lemmy.world avatar

Who voted that government in?

OurToothbrush ,

Sorry, do you think bourgeois democracy is really democracy?

yogthos ,
@yogthos@lemmy.ml avatar

It’s a democracy for the capital owning class.

explodicle ,

A bunch of people who won’t accept moral accountability for what it does.

Zess ,

You say this as if there were ever a choice to have a good government.

pewgar_seemsimandroid ,

first past the post did

explodicle ,

So then vote only for people against FPTP

Waluigis_Talking_Buttplug , (edited ) in Have mercy on our souls

Gin? Genetics? Giant?

Do you pronounce Origin like Oregon?

I personally find arguing pronunciation as entirely pointless when there are many words in English that get pronounced different based on a multitude of factors.

People also like to argue it’s an acronym, but do you pronounce NASA the same as you pronounce the first letter of each word of National Aeronautics and Space Administration?

Honestly? Just say it how it makes sense to you.

soloner ,

Not to mention the creator of GIF prefers the JIF pronunciation.

It doesn’t really matter, but I find the hard g folks have a stick up their ass about it.

irish_link ,

I understand your point in the creator but I find fault in that argument.

Historically it doesn’t matter what the creator of anything prefers unless it’s an “unveiling” and they name it on the spot. People in general will take something and run with it regardless of the creators intent. The perfect example is “light saber” versus “laser sword.” (Edit forgot to add the word sword after laser)

To be honest I don’t care all that much. If you say jif or gift without the t, either way I know what you are talking about.

samus12345 ,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

The problem isn’t people preferring to pronounce it gif or jif, it’s people saying that pronouncing it the other way is wrong. Both are acceptable.

irish_link ,

Couldn’t agree more!

Tristaniopsis ,

Hahahahaha!

OMG what a terrible take.

One is CLEARLY and unambiguously WRONG, and to the point where it should be a public shaming event when it’s used.

SwampYankee ,

Historically it doesn’t matter what the creator of anything prefers unless it’s an “unveiling” and they name it on the spot.

I can’t for the life of me find it now, but the gif was introduced with an image that contained in its metadata a statement that “it’s pronounced jif”. You can still find it somewhere and open it in notepad and read it for yourself.

irish_link ,

No way, that’s awesome to learn. I will have to try and find it and see.

samus12345 , (edited )
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

I believe it also said “choosy moms choose gif.”

EDIT: It was “choosy devs choose gif.”

hexortor ,
BoxerDevil ,

Yeah well like the maker of the platypus, the creator is wrong

SwampYankee ,

Yeah, I have friends who say it with a hard g and I never say a damn thing, but I say jif once and it’s “jraphics” this and “jod” that. I get it, you watched that stupid video in 2012, congrats.

NightAuthor ,

Maybe we should up the ante on this war, and start actively making fun of those who be hating on peanut butter. There are plenty of arguments for either pronunciation, but jiffers are losing the war bc we’re being so passive. Just living our lives, as if the pronunciation of a word doesn’t fucking matter if everyone knows what you mean…. We need to eradicate the culture of soft-g giffers

manuallybreathing ,

it’s actually a soft J, Jif like yiff

SatanicNotMessianic ,

People also like to argue it’s an acronym, but do you pronounce NASA the same as you pronounce the first letter of each word of National Aeronautics and Space Administration?

Um, yes?

I’m assuming we’re talking about the two A letters here, since nothing comes to mind about a different pronunciation of N or S in American English.

In American English - at least in my experience - the first sound in aeronautics is exactly the same as in “air,” which is also the same as in “administration.” We don’t generally say it as in “ear-onautocs.”

Also, I’m curious - has anyone ever published a study describing whether or not the difference in pronunciation differs between sectors in the computer science community? Particularly, is there a difference between normal developers and those who write in a Lisp?

lolcatnip ,

No you don’t, unless you pronounce it like “nessa”.

Sotuanduso ,

If aer in aeronautics is pronounced like air, and the A in NASA is pronounced like the aer in aeronatucis, then NASA rhymes with mesa, not tessa.

I always pronounced NASA like naassuh, but I wanna try the mesa-rhyming version to mess with people.

RandomGen1 ,

SCUBA, LASER, JPEG, ROM, etc. all break the “pronounced as the nested word” argument.

I’m down for people to pronounce it however they please (assuming it’s recognizable as gif), but the post-hoc rationalizations trying to prove their side as the one true pronunciation are silly. The only rationalization that makes any sense to me is the “creator pronounces it as jif”, but language doesn’t work that way so even that doesn’t matter as far as “one true pronunciation” goes.

Waluigis_Talking_Buttplug , (edited )
LeafOnTheWind ,

The a in air is not pronounced the same as administration

criitz ,

deleted_by_author

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  • TheGiantKorean ,
    @TheGiantKorean@lemmy.world avatar

    Gigantic… Wait

    Grabthar ,

    Well said, talking buttplug.

    AlolanYoda ,

    To me, “gif” just looks like “gift” without the final “t”, which is why I pronounce it exactly the same until the t

    stoy , in Great job

    You are looking for the community called “TheRightCantMeme”

    words_number , in Everything I need is still in in the old settings windows that haven't changed in 23 years

    Seriously, the speed in which windows is getting worse since after win 7 is almost comical.

    TheBat ,
    @TheBat@lemmy.world avatar

    Win 7 was peak. Bonus points for giving option to make it look like Win9x by disabling all eye candy options.

    cyberpunk007 ,

    Windows had 3 peaks. 95, xp, and 7.

    Now I just use Linux. I know not everyone can, but for everything I do or need to do it all works just fine there so I couldn’t be happier.

    uncertainty ,

    My favourite Windows is still 2000.

    crispy_kilt ,

    Isn’t that the one you could get to BSOD with a single ping?

    uncertainty ,

    Do you mean the ping of death? That was pretty cross-platform and a bit earlier insecure.org/sploits/ping-o-death.html

    Blue_Morpho , (edited )

    No, the last version of my that was vulnerable was 3.5.1 2000 was better than xp for a year after XP came out. You couldn’t even boot XP on a driver bigger than 128GB where 2000 had that bug already patched.

    _dev_null ,
    @_dev_null@lemmy.zxcvn.xyz avatar

    Windows ME is life, only second to Windows Vista.

    cophater69 ,

    Don’t forget to combine the powers of windows CE windows ME and windows NT~!

    acockworkorange ,

    Everyone can, really. It’s not 2002 anymore. Linux has been ready for prime time for some time now. All it lacks is critical mass.

    cyberpunk007 ,

    I mean people with tight corporate requirements cannot. Certain headaches with security designations, not all software works great in Linux, even though most do.

    acockworkorange ,

    My point is there’s no required savvyness like it used to a couple decades ago.

    A corporation is arguably best positioned to make the transition. The one I work at has all their administrative systems as cloud apps. The few production systems that run native can be run in a Citrix or RDP environment. Even now, with user stations running Windows, these systems are accessed through RDP for… reasons anyway.

    words_number ,

    Yes, XP was pretty great too! Can’t say much about 95, we switched from DOS directly to 98 back then, which crashed all the time. I heard good things about 98SE though.

    Trainguyrom ,

    My memory is 98 was more stable than 95 but I was also quite young at the time so I wouldn’t trust my memory that far back

    vox ,
    @vox@sopuli.xyz avatar

    i think first release on win10 was the best, it got worse with updates

    words_number ,

    Absolutely not. First win10 release already tried to force me into using a microsoft account, had adware and trial crap preinstalled, the terrible settings windows situation, borderline unusable start menu search function, hard to disable cortana bullshit, etc. etc.

    vox ,
    @vox@sopuli.xyz avatar

    Microsoft account crap wasn’t as bad as it is in the most recent releases.
    also win10 is the first version to introduce some significant changes that make windows so much less annoying to use and more unixy
    i hate legacy windows stuff so fucking much but it’s kinda a miracle how they made it work out with windows 10

    kidney_bean ,

    I think after Windows 7 they tried to get into the mobile market for a while so they changed a few things to make Windows work with touch input. But then they realized that they were not up to the task of dealing with actual competition because it requires actually making a good product, so they retreated to their desktop comfort zone where they’ve had a monopoly since forever due to exclusive software and user habits and started to cash in on it by plastering everything with ads. Meanwhile, they pulled out the few skilled developers to have them work on cloud stuff with Azure, because at least after they accidentally lost the emails of the european parliament to a chinese intelligence service without any consequences they know that nothing threatens their dominance over the market

    RaoulDook ,

    Yep the timeframe of Windows 8 was in the ballpark of the iPad coming on the market and being a hit. MS wanted a share of that tablet market so they made Windows 8 a piece of shit abomination combining a tablet UI and desktop UI.

    They realized that was a bad idea and kept polishing their turds until they got Windows 10. Windows 9 was only released in alternate dimensions.

    nossaquesapao ,

    I still have a tablet that came with windows 8. That thing was terrible from day 0 and got unusable after a few updates. Fortunately, it’s running android x86 for a few years like a charm.

    Sky_Lobster , in I might move again. (Or not)

    Honest question… What’s the difference? I just signed up with .world without really doing much looking around first…

    Octopus1348 OP , (edited )
    @Octopus1348@lemy.lol avatar

    I only moved from World because I wanted a smaller instance (and maybe because of stability). And from thelemmy.club because it blocked the Hackintosh community. And from lemmy.ml, which was my first one I moved because I heard the alligations that the admin was pro-chinese government.

    GrammatonCleric ,
    @GrammatonCleric@lemmy.world avatar

    “Allegations”. Nice.

    MentalEdge ,
    @MentalEdge@lemmy.world avatar

    Some instances are running on better servers than others, have staff that fix issues quicker and attend to updates sooner.

    For example, .world is still on v18 while the rest of the threadiverse has mostly moved on to v19.

    Some instances defederate certain other instances, so in some cases you might end up finding that a community you subbed to gets disappeared by the admins of your instance (lemmy.ml did this to ani.social a while back). Whether there are valid reasons goes case by case, sopuli.xyz for example blocks instances that are for porn, and I like it that way.

    Though outward federation is a bit borked on there atm, so I’m using my alts…

    But really, it doesn’t matter that much. If the grass looks greener, you can hop over the fence and see for yourself, and then hop right back if it turns out it wasn’t.

    fmstrat ,

    While I’m not on world, I also hold off on upgrades. Lemmy is still Alpha, after all.

    fmstrat ,

    Moderation and politics. Many in Lemmy don’t like ML’s stance on issues, including banning and moderating dissenting opinions. World won’t defederate from Threads. Etc. Despite no major user difference, Lemmy is a much more “active” vs passive community in reinforcing their beliefs in what’s right. It’s why many migrated here to begin with.

    TserriednichThe4th ,

    Threads?

    CyberEgg ,

    Meta’s/Zuckerbergs microblogging service, also runs on Activity Pub (the protocol that allows instances of any given service to communicate with each other, basically the backbone protocol of the Fediverse).
    Many Fediverse instances decided to defederate Threads because of who’s behind it and because they’re afraid Meta’s ging to do to AP what Google did to XMPP.

    fmstrat ,

    To add: and because they don’t want the content they create to become a money maker for a company that allows abusive organizations to stay online.

    Thorry84 , in It's their legacy

    Well my father did all of those things AND hit me

    Something_Complex ,

    Lucky bastard, no need to go around bragging

    The_Vampire , in soak and jump hump

    Actual Ex-Mormon who attended BYU here: Soaking was never a thing, I have only ever heard about it on the internet or literally in the context of Mormons laughing about non-Mormons believing in Mormons doing such things (yeah, they’re meta about it).

    What is an actual thing is Mormons getting married super early (for a multitude of reasons, one being the horny). Easily over 70% of the students I knew were married by the time they were seniors in college.

    ExLisper ,

    Sorry to break it to you but I also attented BYU and soaking was totally a thing, we just never invited you.

    Hagarashi8 ,
    @Hagarashi8@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Someone, call the police! This was an absolute murder!

    Beetschnapps ,

    It’s funny cause there are no real winners in all this.

    The_Vampire ,

    Good. Don’t ever invite me.

    zalgotext ,

    I can’t confirm or deny your claims about soaking, because I never went to BYU.

    However, I did live in a smallish town in Utah for a year, and I can confirm I saw more married and pregnant 18 year old teens in that one year than I’ve seen in the entire rest of my life.

    Geriatrickid ,

    So the jump hump is real?

    nosnahc , in european stereotypes
    @nosnahc@lemmy.world avatar

    As a french, I’m sick about pretty blond girls that ask about everything because they are blond girls… Yes you’re beautiful, no it’s not a pass you can use anytime.

    problematicPanther ,
    @problematicPanther@lemmy.world avatar

    yeah but, like, would you share your joint with anyone? In my culture, if you’re with friends, you puff and pass. But i don’t think that applies to strangers walking up and asking you for a hit.

    EmpathicVagrant ,

    And friends are a maybe, like I’m more likely to just pull another out of my pocket for someone I’d call a friend and just say fuckit here have a full one bud.

    loutr ,
    @loutr@sh.itjust.works avatar

    As a Frenchman who’s really into live music I would, and I do! Yeah I know, COVID and shit but in the middle of a festival, having a blast and surrounded by like-minded people, if you ask nicely and I have some to spare I’ll give you a joint without thinking twice!

    msage ,

    If you are in the middle of the festival, the joint won’t transmit that much more Covid than just being together.

    DriftinGrifter ,

    Had one last pull a stranger walked up at a Rave wanting some so i blew down bis throat set and setting are important

    Broccoli ,
    @Broccoli@lemmy.world avatar

    So you blew a stranger on a festival, got it.

    AngryCommieKender ,

    In Kentucky the stoner culture is that you don’t light up, unless you have enough to share. That’s the attitude I keep, so yeah, if a random stranger asks me for a hit, I’ll probably just give them the rest and roll a new one.

    I live in California now, but I started weed in KY

    Cannacheques ,

    Yeah I’d rather just smoke, share and just let it be, that’s the whole point in my mind, its just weed and not really worth getting mad about

    FartsWithAnAccent , in Har-monica
    @FartsWithAnAccent@lemmy.world avatar

    I miss the days where the biggest scandal was the president being a ho

    tryptaminev ,

    Well Nixon was an antisemitic genocidal mass murderer. And his antisemitic genocidal mass murderer secretary of state Kissinger is now praised as “great diplomat” in many western countries.

    FlickOfTheBean ,

    History is written by the victors, and that is what a win looks like… Not saying it’s deserved, just why that happened that way.

    hperrin , in In Germany we say "Arbeitnehmerrechte" and I think that's beautiful

    Fellow Americans, remember: if you eat out for your Thanksgiving meal, leave a fat tip for your wait staff who is working on Thanksgiving. Minimum 25%.

    HurlingDurling ,

    Exactly. While I normally eat at home with family, the last time I ate out, I left a 40% tip, because my waiter was a college student that could not afford to fly home, but still treated us absolutely awesome, and the math came out to about what she would have paid for a flight home at the time.

    Shayeta ,

    Naw man, 0% that shit.

    I’m not playing this “oooh our food is cheap” bullshit game only to find out that is because the wait staff is underpaid. I came here to eat, not do math in my head while looking over the menu, INCREASE THE DAMN PRICES. I don’t give a shit if it ends up costing MORE than tipping as long as the cost is fucking upfront.

    I’m not your employer, I’m not paying you. And if your employer can’t keep the restaurant afloat without underpaying you then that bitch should SINK. I’M SICK AND TIRED OF THIS SHIT.

    SirQuackTheDuck ,

    I’ve seen restaurants that add a per-person Christmas booking fee for dinner on 24-26 December. I’d assume it is for the wait staff, but the union conditions aren’t really all that great for the service industry.

    Country: NL

    HerbalGamer ,
    @HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Working on holidays like christmas and new years in the netherlands means 150% hourly wage.

    SimplyATable ,

    Same here in my part of the US

    AnonWyo ,

    The difficulty is that tipped employees, in some parts of the United States, can (and do) make as little as $2.13/hr. Laws ostensibly exist to ensure that tipped employees make minimum wage (federally mandated at $7.25/hr), but, due to a variety of factors, this isn’t always the case (to say nothing of the fact that $7.25/hr is hardly a living wage).

    I spent 25+ years in food service. It was a lot of fun and seemingly good money when I was younger. Now that I’m 40, things like dependable pay and benefits trump the fun I had waiting tables and bartending all those years.

    HerbalGamer ,
    @HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works avatar

    Did you see the part where we were talking about the Netherlands?

    AeonFelis ,

    Americans are struggling with the idea that other countries exist. I’m pretty sure most of them think that the Netherlands is the island from Peter Pan.

    HerbalGamer ,
    @HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works avatar

    No no no it’s Michael Jackson’s Themepark!

    EldritchFeminity ,

    You are, but the original comment specifically said Americans eating out on Thanksgiving. Naturally, they assumed you were talking about overtime laws in the Netherlands in relation to the lack of holiday pay in the American food service industry, but apparently you weren’t.

    So, I guess the question is, did you see the part where we were talking about the US?

    AnonWyo ,

    Completely missed it. My mistake.

    GiveMemes ,

    Then you should attempt to convince other people in order to make change instead of being a dick to waitstaff.

    Sorry you’re justifiably angry. Doesn’t give you a free pass to be a piece of shit tho

    myplacedk ,

    Are you seriously saying that the customer who pays full price and no more is “a piece of shit”, and not management who chooses to underpay the staff?

    I’m not having any of that. I’d rather just not eat out. Enjoy no tip AND one less customer.

    I’ll pay extra when I get extra. I paid over 150% yesterday. I’ve given big tips for free services. People sometimes give my cash tip back assuming I accidentally gave them 10x my intention. But not when it’s a simple transaction when I get what I ordered and I’m paying the advertised price.

    GiveMemes ,

    Either you don’t understand anything about wage lawsin the US or you just aren’t grounded in reality. Yes, lowering somebody’s income because you don’t like their boss’s business decisions is a dick move. Indeed, the solution in this case is for you not to eat out in the US because you are apparently incapable of thinking about the consequences of your actions and who they really affect.

    Are you really that stupid/shortsighted? Or is the anger at the system just clouding your judgement as I had suggested?

    Jordan_U ,

    Yes, I am saying that "the customer who pays full price and no more is “a piece of shit”.

    “and not” ??

    “management who underpays staff”.

    Both of those people would be peices of shit.

    I don’t really understand why you would expect anyone to think that only one of those could possibly be shit at the same time.

    myplacedk ,

    Fair enough, they can both be shit. I just don’t see how it’s my responsibility as a customer, to fix the problem that the resto is underpaying its staff.

    The way I usually do my part to help workers who are not treated well, is to boycott the employer. If tipping is seen as a solution to that problem, I’d call that enabling. Tipping is the only reason restos can get away with grossly underpaying their staff. I don’t want to support that.

    RiikkaTheIcePrincess ,
    @RiikkaTheIcePrincess@pawb.social avatar

    The person who pays “full price and no more” in this case is @Shayeta… who was just suggesting that the price be increased so the “more” is in the price. “Full price” is whatever the shitty owner says it is, not whatever the product or service is worth and definitely not what the customer thinks it’s worth.

    So $10 plus a $3 tip is “paying extra” to you people but you’re gonna happily pay the same shitty owner $15 “and no more” for the same meal literally because they said so. I think the clearest I can be is to point out that they’re offering the “extra,” just exclusively to the owners and never to the workers.

    Now I’m wondering whether it’s some shamefully covered-up phobia of maths or just licking some capitalist footwear under the guise of a kind of false consumerism.

    Shayeta ,

    Knowing how much food+service costs up front benefits the customer by allowing them to make an informed decision.

    Having a higher pay benefits the workers by making their income consistent and allowing them to more easily compare salaries offered by different restaurants.

    Tipping in its current state benefits only the owner by lowering operational costs and forcing the workers to depend on the generosity of the customer, conviniently making workers feel like they are getting shafted by the customer instead of the person who actually hired them.

    myplacedk ,

    So $10 plus a $3 tip is “paying extra” to you people

    Yes. The price is 10. I pay 13. That’s 3 more. Simple math.

    you’re gonna happily pay the same shitty owner $15 "and no more

    That’s a straw man argument. I probably won’t support a shitty owner at any price.

    What I want is to know the price up front, without checking for loopholes, adding tips and whatever. I don’t care how simple the math is, or how much I love math or how good I am at calculating in my head, or how big the impact is to my personal economy.

    I see a price, I either pay it or I don’t. There’s a reason that anything else is literally illegal where I live.

    You’re welcome to have your opinion, this is mine.

    Again, I don’t mind tipping if I actually get extra. I’m a big tipper, if I get more than I’m paying for.

    just licking some capitalist footwear under the guise of a kind of false consumerism

    Wow, that’s American level defense of capitalism. Where I’m from, we pay a lot more attention to consumer rights and employee rights.

    filoria ,

    The only way to institute change in an industry is by changing the supply/demand dynamics. If servers are underpaid, there’ll be less people willing to be servers (supply goes down) which will drive prices up. Every time you tip, you are intentionally interfering with the fair market for service labour.

    The solution to the problem is not to grin and bear the status quo, but to convince other people to not tip. At least, according to typical economic theory.

    GiveMemes ,

    Tipping is inherently part of any fair market service, as are cultural customs. Your misunderstanding of the scope and intersectionality of economics isn’t atypical tho.

    There are a million solutions to any problem. Government was formed in order to make the unifying process of solving problems easier.

    This problem hasn’t been solved for a hundred years by ‘market forces’, maybe it’s time for the government to change something, especially when restaurants are already a struggling business type.

    Do you live in the US and actually understand the laws and cultural problems surrounding this issue? I understand you think economics is all econ 101 but it ain’t lol.

    satans_crackpipe ,

    I can’t tell if this is bait or actual mental retardation

    hperrin ,

    We’re all sick and tired of it. That doesn’t mean you have to fuck over the wait staff to make your point.

    electrogamerman ,

    The customers are not fucking over the wait staff, the owners are.

    leggettc18 ,

    Yes, but until we have a systematic change to remove tipping and pay them a livable wage, not tipping results in them having less money. So either don’t go to the restaurant, or tip. With the knowledge of the system that we have, Going to the restaurant and not tipping is a scummy move in the US. Doesn’t matter who’s at fault for the situation being shitty.

    rambaroo ,

    Hey asshole, if you don’t want to tip waiters then you can stop eating out. Especially on a holiday. Fuck this entitled attitude that you get to punish workers because of cultural/business decisions out of their control… And fuck lemmy for upvoting you.

    STUPIDVIPGUY ,

    Being an asshole doesn’t change societal expectations you’re just fucking over your server. If you want to protest tip culture then stop going to sit-down restaurants entirely.

    Arthur_Leywin ,

    Fuck that

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