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brucethemoose ,

Yeah, I feel like people are freaking out and ignoring that Biden (and Trump) are largely the people they surround themselves with, and the policies they push.

They’ve both been president for years.

flicker ,

The boyfriend last night was surprised I didn’t watch the debate.

“They’ve both been president. I was paying attention. I know what their presidencies will be like. Why listen to them talk about it?”

taiyang ,

That, and we both know how terribly uninformative debates are. I got similar criticism for skipping it but like, we know their policies.

Tiefa ,

I was talking to some friends and I don’t get independents at this point. If you don’t know who you’re voting for and need to see this debate to decide, you haven’t been paying attention to the past 8 years.

Fridgeratr ,

That’s a very good point. The president is in charge of appointing a lot of other people that are more important for making decisions.

unexposedhazard ,

This isnt a dig at him but Biden probably hasnt made a single decision without heavy guidance by all the people around him. This is always the case to a degree i assume, but probably even more with senile people like him. It just makes the whole concept of a president so nonsensical.

mlg ,
@mlg@lemmy.world avatar

Biden loses

OP blames the 5 tankies actually living in the USA for voting 3rd party

UnderpantsWeevil OP ,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

I was planning to blame Russian Internet robots

Ranger , (edited )

Or you could except that the D party sometimes runs shit tir candidates.

Hoomod ,

They should have been preparing a replacement for Biden since he was sworn into office.

Now… Who really knows. There’s so much at stake for more than the presidency. If the choices are between a 78 year old felon under multiple indictments who is only out for himself, and an 81 year old who wants to better the country but is, well, 81… I’ll take the 81 year old

potpotato ,

stirrrrrtt

YeetPics ,
@YeetPics@mander.xyz avatar

accept

And yes, everyone already knows that.

Ranger ,

Thank you for your ableism

And no, the ‘problem’ is always people didn’t vote for their shit candidates & not that they ran a shit candidate.

A_Chilean_Cyborg ,
@A_Chilean_Cyborg@feddit.cl avatar

Man I love love love not being from the US.

volodya_ilich ,

I’m in Europe and things aren’t really better here… Putin on the east, LePen and Meloni on the west…

MapleEngineer ,
@MapleEngineer@lemmy.world avatar

I live in Canada, 15 km from the US border. When shit kicks off down there millions of them could come north expecting that Canada will welcome them with open arms. We will be unable to feed or house them. Many will die of exposure in the first winter. They should go south and hope that Mexico will take them in.

tooclose104 ,
@tooclose104@lemmy.ca avatar

As someone living around the Timmins area, we’ve imported some hot climate individuals and still have room, send them up! The Northlander should be running by then /fingers crossed/

SleezyDizasta ,

It’s actually the other way around. Things are getting so bad in Canada that emigration to the US is at a 10 year high

MapleEngineer , (edited )
@MapleEngineer@lemmy.world avatar

I’m not sure if you completely missed my point or if hating Canada is so big a part of your identity now that you just can’t miss any opportunity to spread that Rusian and Chinese anti-Canadian propaganda.

EDIT: 7 day old propaganda drone account.

SleezyDizasta ,

“everything I don’t like is propaganda” - Typical Lemmy user

No, what I said is true. You’re Canadian, how do you not know this?

Source: CBC

Tens of thousands of Canadians are emigrating from Canada to the United States and the number of people packing up and moving south has hit a level not seen in 10 years or more, according to data compiled by CBC News.

There’s nothing new about Canadians moving south of the 49th parallel for love, work or warmer weather, but the latest figures from the American Community Survey (ACS) suggest it’s now happening at a much higher rate than the historical average.

cbc.ca/…/canadians-moving-to-the-us-hits-10-year-…

Actual reasons cited in the article: Lower taxes, higher wages, affordable housing, dislike of Trudeau’s politics, cheaper groceries, increasing crime rates, increasingly disappointing healthcare system, and warm weather

Whether you agree or disagree with these reasons is irrelevant. The point is that trend is there and it’s accelerating. So to your tongue in cheek point about Americans mass migrating north, that likely won’t happen because the opposite trend is occurring as we speak.

MapleEngineer ,
@MapleEngineer@lemmy.world avatar

Nice straw man. Typical propagandist.

Cost of Living in United States is 8.6% higher than in Canada (without rent)

Cost of Living Including Rent in United States is 14.1% higher than in Canada

Rent Prices in United States are 26.0% higher than in Canada

Restaurant Prices in United States are 8.7% higher than in Canada

Groceries Prices in United States are 5.2% higher than in Canada

But by all means, go on spreading your propaganda.

SleezyDizasta ,

I’m not arguing for or against, I’m just pointing out the fact that emigration trend from Canada to the US is happening and it is at a 10 year high. I merely pointed out the reasons cited in the article as I clearly stated.

MapleEngineer , (edited )
@MapleEngineer@lemmy.world avatar

I live in Canada but have worked for US companies and worked internationally for 15 years. I would never, ever move to the US. Ever.

My belief is that the people moving to the US are moving there for, “freedumb” (no realizing that Canadians enjoy more actual freedom and have better protection of their rights than Americans do) I’m more than ok with that.

SleezyDizasta ,

I don’t care, my point still stands. Your hatred of America or love for Canada is irrelevant, and so are your assumptions as to why people are moving (even they literally give you the reasons in the article). The fact remains that emigration from Canada to the US is at a 10 year high, is far above the historical average, and is increasing.

In the same year (2022), only 10k Americans immigrated to Canada. This is only 8% of the number of Canadians who emigrated to the US (126k), despite the US having 8.5x as many people.

Source: cis.org/…/Canada-Takes-Proportionately-Four-Times…

There’s clearly a very strong disconnect between what you’re trying to insinuate and what’s actually happening.

MapleEngineer ,
@MapleEngineer@lemmy.world avatar

I don’t hate the US. I love Canada. I understand that Canada is one of the best places in the world to live. Those who think they will be better in a country with less freedom, less rights, less safety, and a higher cost of living because they bought in to the right wing bullshit may very well be better off moving to the US. I know Canada will be better for it.

SleezyDizasta ,

Lmao ok

MapleEngineer ,
@MapleEngineer@lemmy.world avatar

I’ve never understood putting an “lol” or an “lmao” or an “rofl” in a message. Are you trying to suggest that you’re smarter than I am or that what I said wrong or stupid? Are you trying to intimidate me? That is definitely not what I take away from it.

I react very much the same way Russians do to people smiling in photos.

SleezyDizasta ,

It means I found humor in your reply as the acronym clearly implies.

If you think an acronym like lol or lmao is an insult or an act of intimidation then you need to touch grass

MapleEngineer ,
@MapleEngineer@lemmy.world avatar

Ok…telling me to touch grass tells me everything I need up know about you. I was right.

SleezyDizasta ,

👍

anticurrent ,

I see the coping, Biden is cooked and the election is Lost.

Liberals are self-infecting a loss, and are blindingly running into a wall, the smack will be heard from outer space.

SoleInvictus ,

I think what will DEFINITELY help is all the immature passive aggression, like this post, that manifests when anyone dares to suggest they might have an issue they need to fix.

/s, in case that wasn’t clear

pubquiz ,

This is what Germany in 1929 was - without social media.

Fidel_Cashflow ,
@Fidel_Cashflow@lemmy.ml avatar

In their moral justification, the argument of the lesser evil has played a prominent role. If you are confronted with two evils, the argument runs, it is your duty to opt for the lesser one, whereas it is irresponsible to refuse to choose altogether. Its weakness has always been that those who choose the lesser evil forget quickly that they chose evil.

-Hannah Arendt, German-American philosopher and political theorist, in fuckin 1964 lmao. some things never change!

Serinus ,

Except that Biden is in no way evil. Being old is not evil, and his administration has done a lot of great things.

Fidel_Cashflow ,
@Fidel_Cashflow@lemmy.ml avatar

That’s right, the man bypassing congress to ship weapons for Israel to bomb refugee tents with is actually a smol bean good guy, that’s SO true

assassin_aragorn ,

Yeah the Nazis would’ve never come to power if everyone just abstained from voting instead of coalescing under one lesser evil /s

CoggyMcFee ,

It’s a frigging figure of speech. It doesn’t literally mean both options are “evil” anytime it is used. And you’re not “choosing evil” by voting for Biden — not for the people whose lives will be ruined if Trump wins. For many you are preventing evil.

If a few more people in a few states had chosen the “lesser evil” of Hillary over Trump, the Supreme Court wouldn’t be delivering supreme evil every few months for the foreseeable future.

(I don’t need to hear about how Hillary did a bad job in the election — it doesn’t change the fact that the consequences are what they are.)

Dagwood222 ,

So, explain how not voting assures us that we don’t get Trump again.

TokenBoomer ,

Simple. If nobody votes, neither candidate will win.

ZombieMantis ,
@ZombieMantis@lemmy.world avatar

Then Congress would appoint the President. If, somehow, a Congress was also not elected, then the states would likely send delegates to do the same thing, but not all of Congress is even up for election.

Dagwood222 ,

I’m going to assume that you’re being sarcastic.

For those who think this is an option, remember that the MAGoos vote in every election.

TokenBoomer ,

IMO the disconnect lies in the fact that many don’t see Biden as the “lesser evil.” They want to vote for Biden, because they’ve been influenced to think it is the only option.

Arendt is making an observation of a “no-win situation”.

Voters want a solution to that situation, so they make assumptions to come to a conclusion that fits the narrative they tell themselves.

Some, when faced with a no-win situation, choose to not play the game. Others, convince themselves that the lesser-evil is a desirable outcome. Many, myself included, want to “change the conditions of the test.”.

There is no viable solution. All choices are valid and should be respected.

Dagwood222 ,

The only way to change the conditions of the test is to get out and support Left-leaning Dems in primaries.

And no, not all choices are valid. Voting doesn’t just affect the voter, it affects the whole country.

TokenBoomer ,

You have no idea what I’m trying to communicate and it’s disconcerting to me. It’s a failure on my part to communicate effectively. I’m sorry.

Dagwood222 ,

Keep at it. You learn by doing something; making a mistake; then doing it again a little better.

TokenBoomer ,

I’m going to assume, from your replies, that you don’t think this election is a no-win situation?

But others do, which is illustrated in OP’s Arendt comment. Those concerns are material, whether true, or not. Dismissing vote abstainers, or third party voters, doesn’t address those concerns. Only Biden and the DNC can do that.

Dagwood222 ,

Or, people could look at the situation as it is.

Trump and his MAGoos are going to do everything they can to take as many rights away from people as they can.

In the real world of 2024, the only option is Joe Biden.

There’s no magical super candidate that’s going to pop up between now and November.

With the latest Supreme Court decision, re-elected President Trump could deputize 5 million of his followers on Inauguration Day.

You don’t have to love Joe Biden, or even like him. Just realize that Trump is for full on fascist takeover of the US and Biden isn’t.

TokenBoomer ,

Who are we going to vote for when Trump suspends elections?

Dagwood222 ,

That’s kinda my point.

TokenBoomer ,

Mine too… jinx.

SpaceCowboy ,
@SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

This premise depends on the assumption that “everyone is stupid except for me!”

We can sum up the sentiment as “don’t choose the lesser of two evils because you’re fucking moron that forgets things easily!”

HomerianSymphony ,

because you’re fucking moron that forgets things easily!"

It’s more that the worst thing you’re willing to accept becomes the new normal.

And then something that was previously unthinkable becomes thinkable. And then if you accept that because it’s the lesser evil, it becomes the new “new normal”. Continue in a downward spiral.

Look at the state we’re in now, with Trump and Biden. That’s the result of decades of picking “the lesser evil”.

At some point you have to say “no more”.

Yawweee877h444 ,

Agreed, and by this argument it will only get worse. The next versions of biden and trump will both be worse if we keep going the same route.

Dagwood222 ,

You’re ignoring the fact that people have been opting out of voting for decades.

People in 1968 couldn’t bring themselves to vote for Humphrey, and we got Nixon.

They couldn’t bear Jimmy Carter, and we got Reagan.

“Both sides are the same” is the Right’s best pal.

Fidel_Cashflow ,
@Fidel_Cashflow@lemmy.ml avatar

NAFO profile pic

worst opinion I’ve ever seen

A tale as old as time

SpaceCowboy ,
@SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca avatar

Tankie being triggered by reality… tale as old as… well not time… but as old as Stalin anyway.

TokenBoomer ,

Hannah Arendt was tankie?

Delusional ,

Well when the only other vote is fascism, hate, and bullying… Yeah we’re gonna vote for the not ridiculous choice.

RadioFreeArabia ,

No one minds you voting for Biden believe it or not. We do mind being demonized and straw-personed for not voting for him.

Socsa ,

Sure, if you are comfortable with the moral liability of fascism them we probably don’t get along.

cumskin_genocide ,

I’m fine with the moral liability of supporting genocide. That’s why I’m voting for Biden.

vonbaronhans ,

So, speaking from a purely pragmatic perspective, voting for Biden is better than other US electoral choices for the purpose of trying to help Palestinians.

I understand your reticence and moral indignation, I largely feel the same.

But the biggest reason Trump won in 2016 is because voters were not particularly enthused with their choices, and a great many decided not voting at all (or voting for Trump as a protest against the establishment) was preferable to voting for HRC.

I have to imagine that we both believe that Trump is worse than Biden when it comes to the Israel-Palestine conflict.

Given that we’re already in election year, it’s down to Biden and Trump. One of them is going to be president come January next year.

Taking all that together, if we want things to get better for Palestine, we should vote for Biden because the alternatives are much worse.

Granted there is a lot you can do outside of elections to help, and I wouldn’t recommend ignoring those. But given that voting for the US president takes a few hours out of one day every four years, it’s not a good idea to ignore that either.

I hope this helps you understand those of us who don’t really like Biden but will vote for him regardless.

suction ,

Well said, „Radio Free Arabia“ 😂

pastabatman ,

Do you understand why you are being demonized though? You’re making a choice that is purely symbolic just so you feel better, but real and vulnerable people across the country have to deal with the fallout.

You want to make a difference? Great! There’s a lot of ways to do that. Campaign and fundraise at the local and state level. Push for election reform, ranked choice voting, end to gerrymandering, term limits, electoral college reform, curtail lobbying… any number of things, and push for them more often than once every four years. Voting third party in a presidential election does NOT help.

If you want my respect, acknowledge the reality of the situation and vote for the best option (or the least bad option) among the viable candidates and then work for change within the system. It sucks that we are in this situation, but make a choice grounded in the real world, not a fake ideal world.

HomerianSymphony ,

You’re making a choice that is purely symbolic just so you feel better

If voting third-party were purely symbolic, there wouldn’t be this many people on Lemmy trying to persuade us to not do it.

I think Biden does want our vote. And we’re telling him that if he wants our vote, he has to stop the genocide. That’s how we can use our vote to influence the government. That’s how democracy is supposed to work.

but real and vulnerable people across the country have to deal with the fallout

There are real and vulnerable people dying in Gaza right now because of what Biden is doing.

PrettyFlyForAFatGuy ,

and that stops when trump wins because you voted for some 3rd party nobody… right?

HomerianSymphony ,

Is that supposed to persuade me to vote for Biden? “But Trump will do genocide too.”

Yeah, and that’s why I’m not supporting Trump either.

I am a single issue voter, and that issue is genocide. And frankly, I’m disappointed that more people aren’t single issue voters when it comes to genocide.

PrettyFlyForAFatGuy , (edited )

Yeah, and that’s why I’m not supporting Trump either.

but you are, because you’re not voting biden in a two horse race.

They call it first past the post for a reason. you’re voting for some cunt still in the stable

I am a single issue voter, and that issue is genocide.

Genocides happening either way. you sitting home and sulking about it wont make it better.

Life is too complex to be a single issue. There is more than a single issue facing the world

HomerianSymphony ,

Here’s a puzzle for you. A group of three men go to a hotel, and they each pay $10 for a room, for a total of $30. Afterwards, the manager remembers that there’s a deal where you can get 3 rooms for $25, so he gives $5 to the bellboy and tells the bellboy to return it to the men. But the bellboy returns just $1 to each of the men, and pockets the remaining $2.

So the men each paid $9, for a total of $27. The bellboy pocketed $2. Where did the other dollar go?

HomerianSymphony ,

And the answer is that “Where did the other dollar go?” is a nonsensical question when you understand the situation correctly. But a lot of people who first hear it don’t understand the situation correctly.

Likewise, “You’re helping Trump by voting third-party” is a nonsensical when you understand the situation correctly, but many people don’t at first understand the situation correctly.

pastabatman ,

Are you sure we don’t understand it correctly? Trump won in 2016 in part due to the righteous indignation of people that refused to vote for Clinton. Third party spoiler candidates are not a new phenomenon.

HomerianSymphony ,

Trump won in 2016 in part due to the righteous indignation of people that refused to vote for Clinton.

And would those people have suddenly switched to Clinton if no third-party candidate was available?

pastabatman ,

Most probably wouldn’t have voted at all but that doesn’t change the math. In a US presidential election, voting third party and not voting at all are equivalent in every practical sense.

HomerianSymphony , (edited )

Right. So, part of the problem with “Voting third-party means supporting Trump” is that it presumes I would have otherwise voted for Biden.

And I wouldn’t have. Because he’s committing genocide.

Also, when third-party candidates start to get traction, they can pull votes away from Trump as well as Biden.

And if enough people vote third-party, we can start to defeat both Trump and Biden. Even small amounts of support for third-party candidates can lead to a third-party winning seats in congress if that support is concentrated in particular districts, like college towns. And in an evenly divided congress, a few seats can control the balance of power and have a big impact.

TokenBoomer ,

It’s an informal fallacy.

HomerianSymphony ,

Genocides happening either way. you sitting home and sulking about it wont make it better.

Be this guy: www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/…/be_this_guy/

pastabatman ,

Good for that guy. His beliefs were just and moral. He didn’t have any options though. Hitler and the Nazis were already in power.

You have an option. You’re acting like you’re brave just like this guy but I bet he wished more people voted for the candidate that wasn’t Hitler.

HomerianSymphony ,

In our case, Biden and Trump are both Hitler because they’re both supporting a genocide. The crowd in that photo are a mix of Democrats and Republicans, and that guy is the people saying “I won’t support either of you”.

pastabatman ,

They aren’t both Hitler though. One is unquestionably worse than the other even if you only look at that single issue. One of them WILL be the next president whether you like it or not. You can have a say in who that will be, or you can go with righteous indignation and let the worse option win by default.

HomerianSymphony ,

It’s not righteous indignation. It’s making difficult moral decisions according to one’s conscience.

I’m aware there could be consequences if Trump wins. But I will not let fear for my own safety steer me towards supporting a genocide.

Like that guy. Who, according to reports, was punished for his failure to salute by being put into penal military service, where he was killed.

Be that guy means be that guy.

pastabatman ,

It absolutely is righteous indignation. You aren’t in the same situation as that guy and you aren’t being brave. Palestinians in Gaza will not be thanking you if Trump becomes president.

HomerianSymphony , (edited )

I’m not in the same situation as that guy. I am not claiming to be brave. I’m a little worried (like we all are), but my life is not in imminent danger.

But I am trying to do the right thing, and I hope that if things get worse and I do end up in a situation like that man that I will be brave and continue to do the right thing. That’s the lesson I’m taking from him.

Draedron ,

You are supporting Trump by wasting your vote.

Jimmyeatsausage ,

If there were a “no genocide” candidate that could win, making that a single issue would matter. Biden supports Israel despite their actions in Gaza… which he has publicly stated he doesn’t agree with and has taken concrete, if underwhelming, steps to try and stop. Trump has shown us during his previous administration and told us recently that he will support Israel harder and will likely take steps to decrease the resistance to the Palestinian genocide if not outright accelerate it. He’ll also accelerate Russian aggression in Ukraine and likely would ignore our Article 5 responsibilities when Putin advances farther into Europe. I’ll assume you’re familiar with the policy differences on climate and how climate change impacts poor regions (like Gaza) more than it impacts affluent ones like the US (and even we’re getting our asses kicked by climate change this year). You can vote to take a moral stand, or you can vote for desired outcomes. The people trying to convince you not to vote 3rd party are trying to convince you to vote for a desired outcome. There is presently no likely outcome that gives us a non-Biden, non-Trump administration for the next 4 years. Based on that fact, we want to maximize the likelihood of the best availa le outcome. That’s what we’re asking…to think about what the world looks like for the people you care about under Biden and compare those outcomes to what it will look like under Trump and vote based on those outcomes. The time to find the ideal candidate is at the beginning of a presidential term, not the end of one.

You can bet your ass most of us are including the ongoing genocide in our voting decision, we’ve just thought about it enough to know our options aren’t between “stopping genocide” and “continuing genocide”, the choice is between “resisting” (aka, the status quo) or “accelerating”.

HomerianSymphony ,

If there were a “no genocide” candidate that could win, making that a single issue would matter.

But voting is valuable even if your candidate doesn’t win. It’s about having your desires counted on the public record.

If politicians see that they’re losing votes to anti-genocide third-party candidates, they’ll take notice.

pastabatman ,

It’s about having your desires counted on the public record.

Get your desires on the public record in local and state elections and primaries where it might actually matter. For a US presidential election it’s an entirely empty gesture that makes you and only you feel better. No policies will change. No causes will be advanced. History will not remember you. It is very likely, however, that will make the lives of vulnerable people inside and outside of this country worse by giving trump a second term.

HomerianSymphony ,

No policies will change. No causes will be advanced.

Or, maybe politicians will see that they’re losing votes to anti-genocide third-party candidates, and their policies will change.

And if not, then we don’t have a democracy anyway. If it’s not possible for the USA to cease its support for genocide, then this is not a liberal democracy, and this is certainly not the leader of the free world.

What happened to “never again”? Never again is now and all I’m hearing is “eh, what can you do?”.

Draedron ,

If you care so much for palestine you vote Biden. Its either Biden or Trump and Trump would flatten gaza to get even more settlements named after him.

assassin_aragorn ,

If voting third-party were purely symbolic, there wouldn’t be this many people on Lemmy trying to persuade us to not do it

This is a logical fallacy. If lighting myself on fire as protest were purely symbolic, then why are all of my friends persuading me to not do it?

Sometimes people trying to convince/persuade you against something isn’t because you actually have a point – but because your ideas will lead to harm.

HomerianSymphony ,

You’re gonna need a better example, because people lighting themselves on fire played a tremendous role in ending popular support for America’s occupation of Vietnam during the Vietnam War.

It’s the last thing I would describe as “symbolic”.

assassin_aragorn ,

Did it? My understanding is that the draft and footage of their children dying in war is what reshaped the public opinion.

Genuinely asking though, it was before my time.

HomerianSymphony ,

There were self-immolations in Vietnam that were protests against the US-backed puppet government in Vietnam.

It wasn’t the only thing that shaped public opinion about the war, but it did have a big impact.

You can read a bit about it here:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thích_Quảng_Đức

assassin_aragorn ,

Thanks!

chakan2 ,
@chakan2@lemmy.world avatar

If you want my respect

I don’t.

Voting for the stunt double from weekend at Bernie’s does not grant you superiority.

Most of us have been voting in the primaries and are involved in local politics. It didn’t matter. The R/D machine drowns out all opposition to its duopoly.

Biden will not win this election. Democracy died while he confusedly stared into the camera for 6 seconds. Beyond that, he fumbled his closing statement which should disqualify from any public speaking position.

Trump is inevitable. We did all we could to get an alternative to Biden, but his hubris will destroy us.

pastabatman ,

So your solution is to give up and throw your vote away? I’m glad you didn’t want my respect because you didn’t get it.

A literal corpse being paraded around for four years like Weekend at Bernie’s would still be a better choice than Trump. He attempted a coup to invalidate the will of the people and maintain power, sent a mob to attack the Capitol building, and has been charged with 91 felony counts in four jurisdictions just for stuff he did while in office and as a candidate (convicted of 34 and counting).

But democracy died when an old man showed signs of being old? Not all that other stuff? Yeah, I’m voting for Biden. Easiest decision of my life. You should too.

chakan2 ,
@chakan2@lemmy.world avatar

You can argue until you’re blue in the face over there. Biden lost the election with that debate. He didn’t do anything he needed to do this term to protect democracy as we know it and the Supreme Court sealed the R’s final solution today.

It’s over man…game over. Congratulations…your support of the status quo ended Democracy.

In short, yea, I’m perfectly fine not having your respect.

Draedron ,

You vote for fascism if you dont vote for him so you deserve it.

AFC1886VCC ,

Biden supporters on the Internet are the worst thing that could happen to Biden… and they say Tankies are doing Trump’s work for him

joenforcer ,

“Biden wins the election. Here’s why that’s bad for Biden.”

febra ,

Yeah… sure. Not a tankie, I’m European and don’t care about influencing you to vote for one or another. But after seeing Biden “debate” Trump I know the dems are fucked. I mean sure, still go out and vote, but I honestly don’t see many people doing so.

OsrsNeedsF2P ,

Absolutely go vote. Tell everyone you know to vote. Don’t vote for Trump. But for the love of god, if you’re otherwise not going to vote, at least vote third party.

Juice ,

They’re…from Europe.

OsrsNeedsF2P ,

I’m referring to other readers

RizzRustbolt ,

Vote down-ticket. Especially for state level Secretary of State and Attorney General candidates. That’s how we’re going to get ranked choice voting in more states

Socsa ,

It’s honestly extremely sad that the primary requirement to be a leader is “ability to speak perfectly on stage for 2 hours.”

vonbaronhans ,

Yeah it’s not great, but like… coming across as coherent is important no matter the position. Biden kinda failed that basic competency test, probably just due to his age and not like, stupidity or a personal failing of any kind. I’m still voting for Biden, but yeah it’s not exactly an enthusiastic vote.

BluesF ,

It should be a basic requirement of literally any public office. That fact that we have got this far baffles me utterly.

chakan2 ,
@chakan2@lemmy.world avatar

The Dems are intentionally throwing it. It’s the only thing that makes sense at this point. The “Not Trump” donations are lucrative, and there’s no way the R’s will make insider trading illegal.

This might be the spark we need for a legitimate progressive party though. Or we get a civil war, who knows.

UncleGrandPa ,

Íf he wore a clown suit and only spoke Pig-Latin during the debate… considering the alternative

He would STILL be the only viable candidate worth voting for

Facebones ,

Dems don’t have a platform or a personality without Trump to lord over anyone they don’t like, but will take Trump over moving an inch left 100/100 times

Snowclone ,

Just because you don’t listen, doesn’t mean it’s not there. You should really look into it, I’m not going to spoonfeed you, be an adult, look it up.

Facebones ,

Stay Mad, Liberal

PythagreousTitties ,

That’s seriously your response, are you four years old?

Facebones ,

Shoutout to how you’re not calling OP a child for literally the exact same statement but as soon as it’s turned around on you it’s suddenly some stupid baby saying for babies.

Libs in a nutshell.

PythagreousTitties , (edited )

What exactly was turned around on me? Do you even understand what you’re saying?

nt but as soon as it’s turned around on you it’s suddenly some stupid baby saying for babies.

You mean stupid baby sayings like Stay Mad, Liberal and Libs in a nutshell. Lmao

PopOfAfrica ,

Tankies? CNN, MSNBC, and NYTimes are all concerned.

Maggoty ,

WAPO too.

PopOfAfrica ,

Clearly this is a far-right conspiracy and they have all taken over the media.

/s

Maggoty ,

Legendary Tankies, the entire group… /s

woelkchen ,
@woelkchen@lemmy.world avatar

Considering that Biden’s main competitor is an actual neonazi and the USA have an undemocratic election system that disadvantages all but two parties, there’s pretty much no choice but the senile grandpa who’s not a neonazi.

YeetPics ,
@YeetPics@mander.xyz avatar

How dare you

/s

olutukko ,

yeah like people keep saying that there is need for someone better than biden, but at the moment he’s the only option thst is valid. it’s about damage control not about making everything utopia.

they complain that biden is not good enough, while completely ignoring that trump is literal neonazi. how in the fuck it is even question wheter you should vote for trump or biden because the fact is that either of them is going to the office. not some third candinate who would be actually good

woelkchen ,
@woelkchen@lemmy.world avatar

As far as I can tell, his administration isn’t so bad overall (granted, compared to children in cages this is a low bar to cross). It’s not like he does every single job personally.

olutukko ,

indeed

Pinklink ,

Can we elect Bernie before it’s too late please?

nednobbins , (edited )

I’ve been called many names, including “tankie”, so I’ll take a stab at responding.

I’m not mad about the debate at all. I expected something fairly similar. I’m mad that Biden and the Democratic leadership seems to have put their own interests above the interest of the party people (edit: Ugh. Terrible typo).

If Biden had gracefully stepped aside and given just about any other Democrat his full support, we’d be in a much better position now. Instead we have a candidate with a ton of baggage and who presents an easy target for Trump’s style of argument. Many mainstream Democrats, including the NYT, are finally starting to realize this. Unfortunately it’s probably a year too late. At this point it would just make it look like Demoratic kingmakers forced him out.

If I went by the modern definition of “tankie” as, an anti-american authoritarian communist. I probably wouldn’t be mad at any of this. I’d be cackling with glee because either of the current nominees will be terrible for the US. Neither of them has a serious long term plan. Neither of them can articulate a policy position. Both of them will continue to erode the power and moral authority of the United States.

Like it or not. Trump is likely to be the next president projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/. At this point it’s probably wise to start thinking about how to limit his impact and how to start cleaning up the mess afterwards.

DragonTypeWyvern , (edited )

Step 1: Flee the country

Step 2: Laugh at all the idiots getting what they deserve

Step 3: Get nuked anyways

pivot_root ,

I’m mad that Biden and the Democratic leadership seems to have put their own interests above the interest of the party people.

The interests of the party is the interests of the rich :)

nednobbins ,

It was a typo. I meant to say that the Democratic leadership seems to have put their and their parties interests above those of the people but I wanted to avoid editing my post too much.

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