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kamenoko ,

Communists supporting a fascist? What is this Berlin in 1933?

Objection , (edited )

Are you talking about the time communists ran the only candidate who wasn’t either Hitler or the guy who appointed Hitler chancellor and the social democrats voted for the Hitler supporter to stop the communists, whose victory directly led to Hitler’s rise to power?

Yeah I’d say there’s some similarities between that and today.

kamenoko ,

I guess not all Communists are genocidal dictators, just the most famous ones.

Objection ,

Lol moving right along from one false claim to the next.

kamenoko ,

Kind of like a fascist would since they don’t actually believe in a political ideology. They can be kind of hard to spot until it’s too late. The core issue I have with Communists is that you’re all so desperate for numbers you’ll let anyone in, including fascists, and when the revolution comes through, all the real Communists mysteriously disappear and we’re left with something that isn’t Communism.

woelkchen ,
@woelkchen@lemmy.world avatar

Considering that Biden’s main competitor is an actual neonazi and the USA have an undemocratic election system that disadvantages all but two parties, there’s pretty much no choice but the senile grandpa who’s not a neonazi.

YeetPics ,
@YeetPics@mander.xyz avatar

How dare you

/s

olutukko ,

yeah like people keep saying that there is need for someone better than biden, but at the moment he’s the only option thst is valid. it’s about damage control not about making everything utopia.

they complain that biden is not good enough, while completely ignoring that trump is literal neonazi. how in the fuck it is even question wheter you should vote for trump or biden because the fact is that either of them is going to the office. not some third candinate who would be actually good

woelkchen ,
@woelkchen@lemmy.world avatar

As far as I can tell, his administration isn’t so bad overall (granted, compared to children in cages this is a low bar to cross). It’s not like he does every single job personally.

olutukko ,

indeed

Pinklink ,

Can we elect Bernie before it’s too late please?

noxy ,
@noxy@yiffit.net avatar

Pepe is dead. Stop.

mrgreyeyes ,

Nearly dead memes for nearly death people!

I do support the message though!

win95 ,
@win95@lemmy.zip avatar

The creator of pepe declared him dead

SleezyDizasta ,

That is beyond meaningless. Pepe has no owner. It is a symbol of the internet culture and it’s not going away any time soon.

win95 ,
@win95@lemmy.zip avatar

Agreed but I do like the lore of pepe technically truly being dead because of his fascist undertone nowadays. Kinda funny.

SleezyDizasta ,

This is only true if you think it’s true. Pepe serves as a template for internet culture and can have anything projected on to it. Pepe has been used to push evil views like Marxism and Fascism to pragmatic views like universal healthcare and freedom of the press to non political things like complaining about video games and the weather.

birbalkumar ,

Stay Mad, Tankies! While debates rage on, it’s always good to have financial options at hand. For those in need, cash advance apps no direct deposit required can be a lifesaver, offering quick funds without the usual banking hassles. These apps ensure you’re prepared for any situation, even when the discourse gets heated. Financial flexibility is key!

Ascend910 ,

I just want Taiwan to reunify with China, unfortunately no party in us supports that :(

SkunkWorkz ,

426

feedum_sneedson ,

必须旗帜鲜明地反对动乱

Luminocta ,

Taiwan number one!

Ascend910 ,

Number one province under Beijing

Luminocta ,

You wish! You guys are jealous the Taiwanese are better at being a country than you. So the only logical thing to do is take them down to your level to feel better about yourselves. Taiwan number one!

Ascend910 ,

Taiwan is a province of China and has always been so. You are just an ignorant westerner who knows nothing about history or international relations. Your government only supports Taiwan because they need a useful tool to annoy China, not because they care about the welfare of the Taiwanese people. They would abandon you in a heartbeat if it served their interests elsewhere. But don’t worry, I’m sure the Chinese will take good care of them once they liberate that little island from its fake independence movement.

Luminocta ,

My government, which you know nothing about clearly, is at the very least not an oppressive bully that is China. Taiwan number one!

boatsnhos931 ,

Can I use your Temu discount

hungryphrog ,

please tell me this isn’t serious

Quacksalber , (edited )

I think the real upsetting thing isn’t Biden’s performance, or having Biden as president for four more years. He achieved quite a bit after all. The real upsetting thing is the DNC being such cunts that they even pushed for this debate, hoping that Biden could win, only to deny and ignore Biden’s abhorrent performance immediately after. That Bernie got shafted twice by them, that is the really upsetting part.

_sideffect ,

They could be rotten from the inside as well, knowing full well how it would go

riodoro1 ,

I wouldn’t be surprised

whocares314 ,

It seems pretty obvious to me at this point that the DNC would rather lose than have an actual progressive win. None of the shitty things that Trump wants to do will hurt them, (stupid take if they cared at all about their descendants but they’re either too arrogant or too ignorant to worry about that) but actual progressive policies that helped average people WOULD hurt their way of life. Marginally. Like, the tiniest little amount. Like, your yacht can only have one master bedroom instead of four. But why give that up when you don’t have to?

“It’s a big club, and you ain’t in it”

I’m voting for Biden though, and I’ll keep voting as progressively as possible in the down ballot elections. If a progressive movement from the bottom up can start by doing things like getting rid of FPTP, we still have a chance. And to anyone thinking about not voting, please do. The president is one person. They are the single most powerful person individually, (taking aside impact on the judicial system) but the collective impact on your day to day life is far more influenced by down ballot positions. Research your down ballot candidates and vote. Many of those races are decided by only a handful of votes. Yours matters.

crusa187 ,

DNC would rather lose than have an actual progressive win

This was made perfectly clear in 2016 when Hillary stole the nom by colluding with Debbie Wasserman-Schultz.

If people haven’t caught on by now, they haven’t been paying attention. Or are just willfully ignorant.

pivot_root ,

It seems pretty obvious to me at this point that the DNC would rather lose than have an actual progressive win.

It’s not in their interests to let a progressive win. Just like their counterpart, the DNC takes a shit ton of bribery donations from corporations lobbyists. Bringing in a progressive who would reform the system or push back against pro-corporate policies is biting the hands that feed them.

TheBat ,
@TheBat@lemmy.world avatar

DNC should’ve started promoting someone else as Presidential candidate since the last 4 years and let Biden work quietly in the background.

tostiman ,
@tostiman@sh.itjust.works avatar

Democratic Nation of Congo?

Maggoty ,

Democratic National Committee.

rambling_lunatic ,

youtu.be/aDfp-QsH51w?t=2018

Sorry, Piped and other frontends isn’t working right now, so you’ll have to use normal YouTube or go through VLC.

photonic_sorcerer ,

Or simply have YouTube links redirected to NewPipe.

Pandantic ,
@Pandantic@midwest.social avatar

The title of this video is “An Anarchistic Watches West Wing” or something similar. I only watched 20mins but it was good so far. It’s a criticism of the American Capitalist system, American Democracy (power of the president, presidential hero worship), etc. via the way it’s portrayed in the West Wing.

rambling_lunatic ,

Aye. The timestamp I linked specifically talks about something talked about in this thread, which is that the DNC would rather have the far right win than move left.

Pandantic , (edited )
@Pandantic@midwest.social avatar

I’m using my app’s built in video player and I guess it didn’t recognize the time stamp. I wanted to give people an idea of the context because I think it’s worth a watch. I’ll give that timestamped portion a watch later.

Ranger ,

I’m not sure if OP understands what a Tanky is.

Fidel_Cashflow ,
@Fidel_Cashflow@lemmy.ml avatar

Tankie is just the blue version of Woke at this point

PythagreousTitties ,

According to hexbear it’s just anything that’s not western/liberal

boatsnhos931 ,

Jesus has my vote…no not him! Jesus Gonzalez from Colombia…He did my cabinets and all I can say is…WELL WOULD YOU JUST LOOK AT THAT

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/47ae61f7-4b36-4b8d-be46-595d43a0b0ca.jpeg

01101000_01101001 ,

Sometimes you just hafta look at it

Croquette ,

What is that from? Just reading what you wrote cracked me up.

boatsnhos931 ,

youtu.be/EF8GhC-T_Mo?feature=shared

Croquette ,

This is great haha. Thanks for the link

febra ,

Yeah… sure. Not a tankie, I’m European and don’t care about influencing you to vote for one or another. But after seeing Biden “debate” Trump I know the dems are fucked. I mean sure, still go out and vote, but I honestly don’t see many people doing so.

OsrsNeedsF2P ,

Absolutely go vote. Tell everyone you know to vote. Don’t vote for Trump. But for the love of god, if you’re otherwise not going to vote, at least vote third party.

Juice ,

They’re…from Europe.

OsrsNeedsF2P ,

I’m referring to other readers

RizzRustbolt ,

Vote down-ticket. Especially for state level Secretary of State and Attorney General candidates. That’s how we’re going to get ranked choice voting in more states

Socsa ,

It’s honestly extremely sad that the primary requirement to be a leader is “ability to speak perfectly on stage for 2 hours.”

vonbaronhans ,

Yeah it’s not great, but like… coming across as coherent is important no matter the position. Biden kinda failed that basic competency test, probably just due to his age and not like, stupidity or a personal failing of any kind. I’m still voting for Biden, but yeah it’s not exactly an enthusiastic vote.

BluesF ,

It should be a basic requirement of literally any public office. That fact that we have got this far baffles me utterly.

chakan2 ,
@chakan2@lemmy.world avatar

The Dems are intentionally throwing it. It’s the only thing that makes sense at this point. The “Not Trump” donations are lucrative, and there’s no way the R’s will make insider trading illegal.

This might be the spark we need for a legitimate progressive party though. Or we get a civil war, who knows.

FlexibleToast ,

Technically I’m voting for Biden, in reality I’m voting against Trump. I really wish I had a better option…

Wxnzxn ,
@Wxnzxn@lemmy.ml avatar

Outside of voting, you have options. I’m not American, but I’d advise any communists to vote Biden simply because the repression under Trump could get really ugly, hindering any proper organisation. Just view it as what I think it also actually is: A cynical, pragmatic move to save you and other working people from more open repression, nothing more.

But before and after voting: Put your energy into unions like the IWW, into neighbourhood organisations for mutual aid, into community defense like the SRA or Redneck Revolt, into antifascist organisation, into refining your own position and presenting it to others. Create networks and connections. All preventing Trump is doing is buying time for now to do exactly that. Things will only get worse in the decades ahead, with no end in sight for the climate catastrophe and further decay of capitalism - and laying the groundwork of actually being able to do something is critically important right now, in my opinion.

Of course everyone is in the end their own master when it comes to decisions like this. Just - remember that by not voting in this specific election you also aren’t changing anything. And while I fully understand the desire to organise for a third party, they have been marginalised effectively, at least I personally don’t think electoral politics will bring any relevant changes, one way or the other. They are just about who carries the whip used against you, and in this case if the are openly and harshly, or covertly and less efficiently using it.

That all being said - I think a few people here overestimate the amount of tankies and communists that won’t vote Biden. The group is marginal in the big scheme of things. If Biden loses, you can be certain, they were not responsible, they are most likely less than 1% of voters. Personally, I’d blame the corporate core of the Democratic party and middle class liberals for being out of touch with reality.

go_go_gadget ,

If Biden loses, you can be certain, they were not responsible, they are most likely less than 1% of voters

Nah, they’ll blame us the same way they blame us for losing the 2016 general election. We are simultaneously too small to matter but able to turn the tide of the largest election in the United States.

TrickDacy ,

Don’t we all? … I think very few people would choose Biden absent it being necessary to avoid the hellscape guaranteed by not voting for him

bloodfart ,

I’m voting party for socialism and liberation and you can too. They’re running Claudia de la Cruz on a platform of Palestinian statehood and an end to arms shipments to Israel.

For me there’s no better time to start building a new American political formation. If the democrats wise up and snap left when they see the third party/lack of turnout then that’s fine too.

Facebones ,

The left got so close to taking the DNC in 2016 they had to go to court to affirm their right to tell the left to eat a dick regardless of voters or donations, and now they’re pushing legislation to strip the red tape from taking away nonprofit status from leftist orgs. Dems are running scared and it has their faschie flag flying high (see op disinformation campaign claiming anyone who dislikes biden is a ‘tankie’)

Of course, even though they’ve spent more time attacking the left than they EVER have Republicans they’ll be happy to place the singular blame on us then march further right so they can shocked pikachu when the left doesn’t vote for them then either.

FlexibleToast ,

This vote is far too important to protest vote. Especially now that I live in a swing state.

PopOfAfrica ,

That’s not called a protest vote. That’s just called a vote.

FlexibleToast ,

Whatever helps you sleep at night if Trump gets elected.

PopOfAfrica , (edited )

Thats why Biden stepping down is so important right now. They need to get guys like this poster to vote D this time. Any generic dem with a pulse will do that.

Its the partys fault if they cant get an easy vote, not the voter’s

FlexibleToast ,

Its the parts fault if they cant get an easy vote, not the voter’s

Ultimately, yes that’s the case. It’s the candidates job to attract voters.

bloodfart ,

Voting for what you actually want to happen is literally the only way to communicate your needs to political parties that they actually listen to.

There are people whose whole education and job is just to know how many people in a given district that the party can pick up by adopting aspects of a particular platform.

Tell them! Tell them that you won’t vote for them unless they take up the antiwar, Medicare for all torch! Tell them that they can’t get your district without a housing guarantee and free school lunch! Tell them to stop the genocide in the only way they listen to!

It’s not a protest to use your vote.

FlexibleToast ,

And that’s great, that’s what I do in the primaries. I’m not about to risk a Trump presidency just to place a vote for a 3rd party that I probably also don’t actually like. Just plug the nose and stop the larger threat.

bloodfart ,

Oh well, if you clearly communicate your needs during the primary and fall in line for the general then why wouldn’t the democrats reward your loyalty by adopting your positions!

How clear and transparent would the upcoming trump presidency have to be for you to jump ship from the democrats and take up a position that they have to aim for in 2028?

Wxnzxn ,
@Wxnzxn@lemmy.ml avatar

So, take this point of view as what it is: a view on the situation from an outsider, I am not American, I am a German communist. While I do probably look more closely at American politics than most likely the average American simply from being interested in politics to a pathological degree, I might not have the full picture of an American who is also as interested in politics.

I think in this particular moment, as much as the Democrats do their best to antagonise you, as much as you are correct that someone like Biden will continue with the same status quo bullshit that created the situation to begin with, as much as he won’t be helping the people suffering from (neo)-colonialism in a meaningful way overseas - I don’t think that this particular election is the time to vote third party. The chance may come, and best then to do it not as individuals based on your personal conscience, but as an organised group, with concrete messaging communicated. And even in other elections and outside this vote, organising for a third party - while I personally don’t have a lot of hope for electoral politics - is certainly better than investing energy into the Democratic party, whose supporters seem to have no problems spewing hatred towards you for not agreeing with their party line and view of reality.

But I think underestimating Trump could be genuinely dangerous. Not because he will “ruin America” or anything like that. Simply, because he will be in a position to dial up repression, potentially leaving you with a situation in 2-4 years, where the party you voted for has to move underground, either having gotten outlawed or further marginalised and infiltrated. The situation looks critical enough to me, that under a Trump presidency, unions and leftist orgs will face open persecution much more than under someone like Biden - who is admittedly bad enough. Persecution up to outright criminalising them, to encouraging right-wing militias to kill their members with a slap on the wrist as a consequence or no legal repercussions at all. Yes, I do think that is unfortinately a realisitic possibility. And at this point, I don’t think leftist orgs in the US have the resilience yet to efficiently organise in the underground.

That being said, I won’t tell you a vitriolic “you will be at fault” if you choose to vote and organise as you want to. I do also see advantages, like getting visibility for your issues and potentially by reaching certain threshholds getting public funding support and the likes (that exists in the US too, right?). But I’d still advise it in this election - as shitty and cynical as it is - to vote for the old fart that doesn’t swing the whip of the state as hard on your back as the one that might outright strangle you with it. Getting a proper communist, grassroots organisation running in the United States is important for the whole world, and I fear it will be impossible, or at least much, much harder under Trump (mostly, again, because there are no proper structures in place to move into illegality and organising underground, from everything I can tell.)

bloodfart ,

it’s already like that.

assassin_aragorn ,

How does de la Cruz intend to stop arms shipments without any congressional representation to push legislation to do so?

If Congress says money must be spent on sending Israel weapons, then the president has to follow that in some capacity. The president could try to stop shipments, but that would result in a swift court case, and the president would be compelled to continue sending weapons. The executive branch has discretion in how to do so, but it unfortunately does not have the authority to end it.

You need Congress if you’re going to stop all shipments. Alternatively I suppose you could try to have the judiciary in your favor, but that means de la Cruz now needs the Supreme Court on her side.

It’s a complete misconception in American society and politics that the president can do anything. They’re certainly the most powerful single individual, but Congress is still much stronger.

The Party for Socialism and Liberation would be much better served trying to win Congressional races so they can push for bills to end weapon shipments. If they could take a number of strong Republican districts with their message, it would give them a lot more influence.

bloodfart ,

lets say youre right, and the president can’t do anything to stop arms shipments. simply forcing the (it wouldn’t be swift, the supreme court works on a set schedule) case would be better than rubberstamping the appropriations of our genocidal congress.

simply forcing the supreme court to rule would be powerful!

make them put their names on their genocide! even if the executive fails wouldn’t it be better to actually try everything to stop the genocide than to simply say “nothing i could do!”?

of course, if the executive branch were so weak there’d be no reason to fear project 2025, but i’ll leave that alone.

but there are tons of ways to hamstring aid, usually it’s not explicitly listed what aid will be sent in a bill, that’s left up to the executive. in that case de la cruz could send nonlethal military supplies like food, medical and replacement parts.

in the case that aid is specified, it can be slow walked as part of a peace deal, it can be deactivated or simply sent during adverse conditions that will ensure it never arrives.

psl has been running in state, local and congressional elections since 2008.

its astounding to me how many people reply to posts like this saying “you can’t win, so dont try!” or “its going to be hard and people will oppose you, so give up!”.

RatzChatsubo ,

Normally I would agree as a democrat. But I genuinely think trump is a better pick over Biden rn. That’s how bad he is

UFODivebomb ,

You are either a troll or an idiot.

RatzChatsubo ,

Just an undecided voter

LANIK2000 ,

I agree that it is heartbreaking that the democrats keep pushing candidates no one wants. But no amount of incompetence is a reason to give fascism a try. I don’t live in America, but considering they run this joint, I’d hate for it to become a shitier Russia.

Biden is definitely not fit to do anything him self, but he’s surrounded by good advisers and he actually fucking listens to them. Under his term not nearly as many horrific things happened as under trump. Trump’s an immediate menace to the world order as we know it. I find it really ironic how he claims to be pro American, but actively destroys the reasons people look up to America and let it have so much influence in the first place.

masterspace ,

Quite frankly, go outside and have someone slap you in the face and wake you the fuck up.

It’s not remotely close. Biden still has an actual solid policy agenda, Trump is a senile and decrepit badger, shitting himself and scratching at everything he sees.

RatzChatsubo ,

Idk man it’s really a hard decision this year. How can you say it’s not remotely close at this point?

masterspace ,

No, it’s not a hard decision.

You’re choosing between two old men, one of whom is an actual politician with a history of accomplishing things and running a country. The other is a mean old pervert who couldn’t run a business without committing fraud. He literally tried to cheat and destroy the system when he lost the first time.

How the fuck do you think it’s close?

RatzChatsubo ,

Nah man it’s close. I could barely tell who you were talking about in your response because they are so similar. If you think a president who can barely have a conversation is acceptable, that’s crazy

masterspace ,

Lmao, barely have a conversation? Trump literally can’t even remember what he did or said yesterday, and has literally no plan for actually improving the country in any way shape or form.

Biden passed the Inflation Reduction Act which actually presents a vision for how to return manufacturing to America and restart it’s economy, while addressing climate change. Trump has no plan to address literally any of that.

You need to wake up man. They are not even in the same ballpark.

Linkerbaan ,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Good to know Democrats aren’t interested in winning the left vote anymore

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/52cb35d3-a138-4d57-8af5-33d7838cca6c.jpeg

TheRealKuni ,

Leftists - making progress the enemy of perfection and fucking themselves over since always.

UncleGrandPa ,

Íf he wore a clown suit and only spoke Pig-Latin during the debate… considering the alternative

He would STILL be the only viable candidate worth voting for

demizerone ,

I’m voting for the man with one foot in the coffin that is not trump, but it doesn’t matter because I don’t live in a swing state.

GiddyGap ,

it doesn’t matter because I don’t live in a swing state.

Not true. It absolutely does matter.

Zink ,

+1 TO BIDEN POPULAR VOTES = +1 TO TRUMP TEARS 💦

Share if you believe! 🙏

Corkyskog ,

I don’t, I firmly disbelieve. Trump will only care if you’re in a purple state that he tracks the metrics on. He is too dumb to see or care about other stats.

Zink ,

Yeah you’re right, unfortunately.

PythagreousTitties ,

This is embarrassing

Zink ,

It is if you take it seriously rather than as a parody of the modern version of FWD:FWD:Re:FWD:.

anticurrent ,

I see the coping, Biden is cooked and the election is Lost.

Liberals are self-infecting a loss, and are blindingly running into a wall, the smack will be heard from outer space.

SoleInvictus ,

I think what will DEFINITELY help is all the immature passive aggression, like this post, that manifests when anyone dares to suggest they might have an issue they need to fix.

/s, in case that wasn’t clear

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